DuPont de Nemours, Inc.

press the star one. Thank you. I'd now like to turn the call over to Chris McCrae. You may begin.

Good morning, and thank you for joining us for DuPont's fourth quarter and full year 2024 financial results conference call. Joining me today are Ed Breen, Executive Chairman, Lori Koch, Chief Executive Officer, and Antonella Franzen, Chief Financial Officer. We have prepared slides to supplement our remarks, which are posted on DuPont's website under the Investor Relations tab, and through the webcast link, please read the forward-looking statement disclaimer contained in the slides. During this call, we'll make forward-looking statements regarding our expectations or predictions about the future. Because these statements are based on current assumptions and factors that involve risks and uncertainties, our actual performance and results may differ materially from our forward-looking statements. Our Form 10-K, as updated by our current and periodic reports, includes detailed discussion of principal risks and uncertainties which may cause such differences. Unless otherwise specified, all historical financial measures presented today are on a continuing operations basis and exclude significant items. We will also refer to other non-GAAP measures. A reconciliation of the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures included in our press release and presentation materials and have been posted to DuPont's Investor Relations website. I'll now turn the call over to Lori. We'll begin on slide three.

Good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining our fourth quarter call. Earlier today, we reported solid quarterly results to close out a strong year of performance. Fourth quarter sales grew 7%, including another consecutive quarter of double-digit organic growth in E&I, and highlighted by a return to organic growth in W&P of 6%. We showed strong operating leverage as operating EBITDA of $807 million increased 13% year-over-year, operating EBITDA margins of 26.1% expanded 140 basis points, and adjusted ETS of $1.13 grew 30% from the prior year. From an end market view, fourth quarter saw continued strong demand within electronics, driven by the ongoing transition to advanced nodes and related AI-enabling technologies. Further improvement in healthcare markets resulted in a return to volume growth for both our medical packaging and biopharma products, which both grew at double-digit rates. Additionally, we continue to see growth acceleration in water in this quarter, with 4% sequential sales lift and an 11% year-over-year increase. Looking back at full-year financial performance, volume growth of 2% was solid and grew as the year went on, culminating in 8% growth for the fourth quarter. This combined with operational discipline and productivity actions was key to our earnings growth and resulted in strong incrementals and margin improvements. Coupling improved segment earnings with the benefit of a reduced share count led to a robust 17% growth in adjusted EPS. Working capital optimization, which has been another key operating priority for the team, helped drive strong cash generation with transaction-adjusted free cash flow conversion of 105%. I'd like to thank the entire DuPont team for all their hard work and dedication to achieve these results. Turning to slide four, I will cover our key priorities for 2025, organic growth, operational execution, and portfolio management. Starting with the top line, as mentioned, we saw volume growth improvement in both E&I and W&P as we progressed through this past year. Looking into 2025, we expect further acceleration in volume growth, targeting mid-single-digit organic sales growth for the total company. To enable this, we will continue focusing on optimizing our growth opportunities within each business, which includes both continued investment and innovation, as well as driving commercial excellence initiatives, including strategic marketing and sales effectiveness activities. To ensure success, we recently hired a chief commercial officer to drive consistent execution across all of our businesses. Additionally, our businesses continue to focus on driving operational excellence. We are entering our fourth year of driving an enhanced focus on OpEx, and our profitability continues to benefit from the expanded toolkit and discipline rollout across the organization. Coupling our standard OpEx framework with steady investments in digital tools will lead to continued improvement in financial performance. Finally, regarding portfolio management, we announced last month that we are targeting November 1st of this year for the intended spinoff of the electronics business, which is nicely accelerated from the initial timeframe of 18 to 24 months. We remain excited about the sizable shareholder value creation opportunity from creating a leading pure play electronics company. We continue to make progress towards establishing the future boards for electronics and DuPont, and remain on track to be able to announce new board members as well as executive leadership for the future electronics company by the end of the first quarter. We continue to see the excitement building internally and externally, and I look forward to updating you in the coming months. With that, I'll turn it over to Antonella to cover the financial results and outlook in detail.

Thanks, Lori, and good morning, everyone. We are pleased with a solid finish to a strong year of financial performance. And market recovery and improved volumes have been the primary driver of our accelerated sales and earnings growth throughout 2024. And our teams have also continued to execute well on our operational excellence initiatives, including both enhanced productivity and the previously announced cost actions. I look forward to the continued momentum that we are carrying into 2025. But first, I'll cover our fourth quarter financial highlights in further detail, beginning on slide five. Net sales of 3.1 billion increased 7% versus a year ago period, as an 8% increase in volume was slightly offset by a 1% decrease in price. Currency and portfolio were both flat. Higher volume was led by continued strong demand in electronics and markets, with semi and interconnect solutions both up double digits. Further acceleration in water solutions yielding double digit volume gains and a return to year-over-year growth in both safety solutions and industrial solutions. On a segment view, ENI and WMP organic sales grew 10% and 6% respectively. Organic sales in corporate declined 7% versus the year-ago period. From a regional perspective, Asia Pacific delivered 11% organic sales growth year-over-year, including another strong quarter in China where organic sales also increased 11% due to continued strength in electronics markets and acceleration in water. Organic sales were up 5% in North America and up 1% in Europe. Fourth quarter operating EBITDA of 807 million increased 13% versus the year-ago period as volume gains, the benefit of higher production rates, and savings from restructuring actions were partially offset by higher variable compensation. Operating EBITDA margin during the quarter of 26.1% increased 140 basis points year over year. Fourth quarter cash generation was strong, reflecting a continued working capital discipline across the businesses. On a continuing operations basis, cash flow from operations of $564 million, CapEx of $161 million, and $52 million of separation-related transaction cost payments resulted in transaction-adjusted free cash flow of $455 million and related conversion of 96%. As Lori mentioned earlier, 2024 was a strong year for cash performance, with transaction-adjusted free cash flow of $1.8 billion and related conversion of 105%. Turning to slide six, Adjusted EPS for the quarter of $1.13 per share increased 30% from $0.87 in the year-ago period. Higher segment earnings of $0.17, as well as below-the-line benefits totaling $0.09 from a combination of lower share count, tax rate, and foreign exchange losses drove the year-over-year increase. Turning to segment results, beginning with E&I on slide 7. E&I fourth quarter net sales of 1.5 billion increased 11% versus the year-ago period on organic sales growth of 10% and favorable portfolio impact of 1%, reflecting the Donatel acquisition. Organic sales growth of 10% reflects an 11% increase in volume, slightly offset by a 1% decrease in price. At the line of business level, organic sales for Semi were up low teens on continued semiconductor demand recovery driven by AI technology applications. Semi demand continues to be notably strong in China with year-over-year growth of about 40% during the quarter. Given elevated levels of growth throughout 2024, we currently anticipate relatively flat Semi sales in China for 2025 though overall organic growth in semi is expected to be up 6% to 7% for the full year. Interconnect Solutions posted another quarter of strong results, with organic sales up low double digits, reflecting broad-based end-market strength, additional share gains, and continued volume benefits from AI-driven technology ramps. Industrial Solutions returned to organic growth in the quarter, with organic sales up mid-single digits due to improved demand for biopharma within healthcare and continued strength in printing and packaging applications. Operating EBITDA for E&I of 457 million was up 21% versus the year-ago period. On volume gains, the benefit of higher production rates, savings from restructuring actions, and a 13 million gain related to a technology license agreement, which was contemplated in our guidance. The year-over-year increase is partially offset by higher variable compensation. Operating EBITDA margin during the quarter was 30.3%, up 250 basis points versus the year-ago period. For the full year, E&I net sales of $5.9 billion increased 11%, with 6% organic sales growth. for the full year operating EBITDA of $1.7 billion increased 17% with operating EBITDA margin of 29%, up 140 basis points from the prior year. Turning to slide eight, WMP fourth quarter net sales of $1.4 billion increased 6% versus the year-ago period due to an 8% increase in volume, partially offset by a 2% decrease in price. Safety solutions returned to year-over-year growth as organic sales were up high single digits, reflecting continued improvement in healthcare markets, evidenced by medical packaging sales lift for three consecutive quarters, including a 6% increase from Q3. Shelter solution sales were flat on an organic basis, with headwinds in North America construction markets offset by growth and repair and remodel demand. Within water solutions, sales were up low double digits on an organic basis, driven by continued broad-based volume recovery. On a sequential basis, water solution sales also increased for a third straight quarter, with sales up 4% from Q3. Operating EBITDA for WMP during the quarter of 357 million was up 14% versus the year-ago period, as volume gains and savings from restructuring actions were partially offset by higher variable compensation and the absence of about 25 million of discrete item benefits reported in the prior year. Operating EBITDA margin during the quarter was 26.3%, up 170 basis points from the year-ago period. For the full year, W&P generated net sales of $5.4 billion with operating EBITDA of 1.4 billion. Operating EBITDA margin for the full year of 25.1% increased 50 basis points. Turning to slide 9, which outlines our first quarter 2025 and full year guidance expectations. At a consolidated level for the first quarter, we estimate net sales of about 3.025 billion operating EBITDA of about $760 million and adjusted EPS of $0.95 per share. Our first quarter net sales guidance assumes mid-single-digit organic growth and a currency headwind of about 1.5% versus the first quarter of 2024. We expect a more normal seasonal progression into the second quarter with a sequential sales lift of about 6% to 7% from the first quarter. For the full year 2025, we estimate consolidated net sales of 12.8 to 12.9 billion, operating EBITDA of 3.325 to 3.375 billion, and adjusted EPS of $4.30 to $4.40 per share. Our full-year consolidated net sales guidance assumes mid-single-digit organic growth and a currency headwind of about 1%. Our EPS estimate includes a headwind from below the line items totaling 10 cents related primarily to an assumed 1% higher tax rate versus this past year. I would also like to highlight that we plan on realigning our segment reporting structure in the first quarter in advance of the intended separation of electronics later this year. We will begin reporting under this new structure when we release our first quarter 2025 results. The businesses comprising the future electronics company will be reported as the Electronics Co segment, while the businesses that will remain with DuPont will be reported as the Industrials Co segment. We are providing historical segment information reflecting these realignments for comparison purposes, which you can find in the earnings presentation accompanying today's call. For the new Electronics Co segment, We expect full-year 2025 organic sales growth in the 6% to 7% range. This assumed growth is expected to be driven by ongoing strength within SEMI, fueled by continued AI adoptions and transition to advanced nodes, as well as the impact from more normalized sales in China, as previously mentioned. In interconnect solutions, we expect continued growth driven by improved sentiment within consumer electronics and refreshed cycles in support of AI adoption. For the new industrial code segment, we expect full-year 2025 organic sales growth in the 3% to 4% range. Within healthcare markets, we expect growth acceleration in medical devices, along with continued stabilization for medical packaging applications and in biopharma markets. In water, we expect a strong year for the business with continued volume growth year over year, and we expect stable demand within markets served by our remaining industrial-based product lines. With that, we are pleased to take your questions, and let me turn it back to the operator to open the Q&A.

Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad to raise your hand and join the queue. you would like to withdraw your question simply press star 1 again we ask that you please limit yourself to one question and one follow-up your first question today comes from the line of scott davis from melius research your line is open hey good morning everybody laura anthony and chris um you guys talked uh you referenced ai related revenues a few times in the in the call is there any

Can you size that for us at all and kind of give us a sense of what kind of growth rates you've seen there?

Yeah, Scott, we saw really nice growth this year, up about 30% in the AI-related sales. We're up over $300 million now. So we continue to expect that to be a key piece of the growth for the electronics co. as we move to separate them towards the end of the year.

Okay, that's helpful. And then the... Incremental margins, 47% or so is what I was calculating. It's pretty strong. But you've got a little bit of price, perhaps, Edwin, in front of you. How do you think about incrementals in 2025 and the sustainability kind of puts and takes of costs coming back? And I know there's going to be some noise in the transition here, but do you think there's an opportunity to keep those incrementals above historic levels? Or do you see some costs coming back and some price issues?

Yeah, in 2024, we saw incrementals kind of in the low to mid 60s. And we have them, as you had mentioned, in the mid 40s in 2025. So again, very strong. We had mentioned that we do have a 1% assumed price headwind in 2025 versus 2024. But net between that and inflation and absorption tailwinds. We see that about neutral on the bottom line. So we'll share a lot more about margin projections when we do investor day later in the fall. But we continue to expect to see really nice margins driven across both new DuPont and electronics.

Okay. Congrats on the year. Best of luck, guys. We'll see you. Thanks, Scott.

Your next question comes from a line of John McNulty from BMO Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Yeah, thanks for taking my question. So maybe just a question on water. Obviously there were some easy comps there, but it also, it seems like it really, it really continued even on a sequential basis. Can you help us to think about some of the drivers that you're seeing there that are really pushing that growth and how we should be thinking about them as we go through 2025?

Yeah, we did see really nice recovery, so it was up about 11% year over year organic in the fourth quarter, and we see about mid to high single digit organic growth overall in 2025 for water. So a lot of it really is just around the secular tailwinds in the water space, so the access to clean water. We see nice growth across all key technologies. We are the one player within the space that has all the four key technologies when it comes to filtration. And there's some incremental opportunities, not necessarily in 25, but longer term around both DLE, so direct lithium extractions within the battery space, and then also some PFAS opportunity as well.

Got it. Okay. Thanks for the color on that. And then with regard to semis, it looks like there's a number of node transitions happening. kind of especially rolling in in the second half of 2025. Can you help us to think about what that means for the cadence of growth in the semi-tech platform for you as we look through 2025?

Yeah, so we had mentioned for overall new electronics co, it'll be about 6% to 7% organic growth. That's about even between both sides of it, so between semi and ICS. Q1, just given the favorable comp, will be the highest growth. We said low double digits, I believe, for the new electronics. And then so it'll moderate as the year goes on. But again, really nice overall, 6% to 7% on top of a really strong year in 2024.

Great. Thanks very much for the caller.

Your next question comes from a line of Steve Tusa from J.P. Morgan. Your line is open.

Hey, good morning. Good morning, Steve. Did you see any kind of a pull forward in demand with regards to, you know, any concerns around tariffs or new administration in the fourth quarter?

Hey, Steve, it's Antonella. You know, we've talked about in the last couple of quarters that we saw, I would call it more of pre-buy in the semi-space related to a lot of the new fads that have started up during the course of the year. So you heard us talk about that in Q2 and Q3. We would estimate that in Q4 it was probably around $20 million or so. I would say we would attribute it more to the new fad startups versus tariffs per se, but there could have been a little bit of it related to the tariffs coming in 2025 as well.

Okay. And then I think there was a modest gain in the electronics segment. I'm not sure if you fleshed that out. How big was that?

Yeah, so we commented on that in our prepared remarks. It was $13 million, and it was included in the guidance when we provided it on the third quarter call.

Oh, OK. Got it. All right.

Thanks a lot. Your next question comes from the line of Jeff Sprague from Vertical Research. Your line is open.

Hey, thanks. Good morning, everyone. Sorry if I missed this at the beginning. I was also about 10 minutes late getting on. Just on the spin and the timing now, I feel that's a pretty hard lock on November 1, and maybe any update on just kind of the costs to separate and the kind of stand-up, stand-alone costs associated with electronics. Again, I apologize if you address that.

Hey, Jess, it's Antonella. So yes, timing is pretty locked in. I would say the team has clearly done a lot of work to accelerate the timeline. We've had a lot of good practice in the organization in doing this. So we have a really good plan in place and things are progressing as expected. In terms of a couple of updates, so our separation costs, we had said would be around $700 million. We do expect that to be a little less than that as we move forward now, given that water will remain in the DuPont portfolio, but I would just be mindful that a lot of things that kind of went into that will still continue to happen, whether it was one separation or two separations. In terms of the synergies, we initially quoted that as around 60 million. Now we would expect that that would be closer to 40 million.

Great. And would that also encompass sort of the stranded cost, that $40 million? Is that sort of the public company cost for New Electronics Co., separate and apart from sort of stranded that you'd need to get after? Could you just kind of put a finer point on that?

Sure. So when you kind of take a look at our disenergies, it is predominantly standing up to public companies. So when you kind of compare where our corporate costs are today versus where we expect corporate costs to be in the future, that is a big bulk of it. There's a little bit of it that is in the businesses. As we've said before, it does not include per se stranded costs. But I would tell you that at this point, based upon all the work that we've been doing in terms of getting the two organizations ready for day one and kind of having a cost structure that's fit for purpose in terms of their size, We do not expect that to be very material.

Great. Thank you.

No problem.

Your next question comes from a line of Chris Parkinson from Wolf Research. Your line is open.

Great. Thank you so much. Just going back to the water protection, you hit on this towards the end of your prepared remarks, but could you just give us a little bit more perspective on how you see things shaping up across safety, shelter, and water? throughout 25, as well as just kind of the key considerations that we should be looking at in terms of potential market outperformance. Thank you so much.

Yeah, so I'll answer your question in the new form, given that's how we're going to report in 2025. So for the three pieces within the new DuPont, the water and healthcare will be about 40% of the portfolio, and we expect them to have nice mid to high single-digit growth organically in 2025. So a continued improvement coming off of the bottom that we saw throughout 2024. So we had noted medical packaging got better every quarter and we exited a really nice position from 2024. The same with water. So water improved, you know, kind of every quarter and we exited in a nice position and we see the destocking that we had telegraphed early in 2024 essentially complete. Then the remaining portion of the portfolio probably will be around the low single-digit growth. So that would encompass the aramids business, the shelter business, and then the businesses that we picked up from the industrial solutions business within electronics. So overall, nice 3% to 4% organic, definitely outsized within the healthcare and the water portion.

Got it. And just as a quick follow-up, just on the interconnect side, you mentioned obviously some AI-driven tech benefits, but Could you just hit on kind of the key drivers of the remainder of the portfolio and just any differences based on geography as well? Thank you so much.

Yeah, within electronics, within the interconnect business, we had mentioned the AI around the packaging space. There's also a lot of upside that we saw in 2024 and continue to expect in 2025 on the layer. So this was the business that we had acquired back in 2021. It's a lot around thermal management. So we're looking as the chips get smaller and then have more intense for us to be able to drive a lot of outperformance on the layer side. So that was key to the growth and we expect it to be strong again this year.

Great, Tyler. Thank you.

Your next question comes from a line of Josh Spector from UBS Financial. Your line is open.

Yeah, hi. Good morning. I wanted to ask on the industrials co-guidance, but specifically on first quarter versus the year. So in your first quarter, it seems like you're guiding for low single-digit growth. You just did mid-single-digit growth in fourth quarter. And you have a pretty easy comp in first quarter. So what am I missing about why that growth shouldn't be higher in first quarter as it relates to the year?

Yeah, so the largest piece is within the automotive portion of new DuPont. So overall, last year was still robust for them in Q1 from both the automotive side of the piece as well as within Ted Bar, within the business. So one of it is a comp, a little bit less of a favorable comp than maybe what you would have expected. Also, if you look at the bill, you know, you're going to go year over year, and you're prepared, and then you're going to go sequentially. But the bills in Q1 2025 are expected to be down four year over year than what they were in Q4 2024. So that would meet the expectations. Otherwise, everything else is generally the same between the two borders.

Okay, thanks for that. And if I could just follow up on cash deployment, you guys haven't bought back stock in about three quarters now, your leverage is low, understanding you're going through everything with splits, but seems to be an opportunity for you to deploy some cash and a buyback. So why isn't that something that we're doing now?

Yeah, so as we mentioned in some prior calls, we do not plan on doing any more shared buyback until, like, at least seven months until post-separation. I would just be mindful, obviously, there are a lot of cash calls related to the separation, so that's where our cash will be deployed in the near term.

Okay, thank you.

Your next question comes from the line of Patrick Cunningham from Citi. Your line is open.

Hi, good morning. The pro formas, you know, seem to imply the EBITDA margin profile that, you know, corporate retained businesses, maybe high teens, low 20s. I mean, would you characterize these as normal levels? And does it change maybe what the long-term margin target would be for the industrials co versus WNP?

Yes, you're right. So the businesses that are coming into the new DuPont, so the businesses that were in corporate M&M and then the businesses that were in the industrial portion, E&I had a lower overall margin profile than the Heritage WVB businesses. And so from the corporate M&M businesses that came in, if you caught it right, they were kind of in the high to maybe low 20s. I would say that that benchmark level, if you look at the other existing players, probably could be above And then the businesses that we picked up from the industrial business, a lot of that would be the spectrum piece that came in through acquisition. And when we had done that acquisition, we set the margin for in the low 20s. So we're right sitting at 23%, 24% in 2024 for Industrials Co. We'll look to continue to drive productivity and mix enrichment. And then, as mentioned earlier in the call, we'll get into more of the margins for our businesses to expect for each of those. to new companies that they're invested in, that's all.

Great, thank you. And apologies if I missed this, but is there any update on CalRez? You know, how is that business performing? We had two quarters of sharp destocking, and should we expect some rebound there in 2025, you know, helping underpin some of the strong growth rates in the electronics business?

Yeah, I would say mid-year 2025 is the one business that we have in the portfolio that hasn't quite gotten through its deep stock yet. So we're targeting mid-year 2025 for that to get back to more normal growth levels.

Thank you so much.

Your next question comes from the line of Alexi Ephrima from KeyBank Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Thank you. Good morning, everyone. How are you thinking about industrials portfolio now that you decided to keep the water business? Any further divestments or do you see any interesting bolt-ons here?

Yeah. I would say it's both. I mean, as we continue to look at the RemainCo portfolio and look to take Flexi out and get it more towards the 6.5 businesses, it's more exposed to high-growth secularized markets. You'll continue to see portfolio activity on the NICU-HOT side. And then we'll look to invest in M&A primarily around the healthcare and the water business as we look to outsize our exposure there. So we'll come out at about 40% of sales in the healthcare and water and look to lift that for both M&A and also growth as we move forward.

Great. Thank you. And then a follow-up on electronics. Do you have an assumption for underlying market growth in semis and interconnect or target outgrowth for each of these segments in 2025?

Yeah. So in 2025, we see MSI around this single digits, and again, we have talked through 2024, but it's a little bit disconnected with respect to wafer starts and wafer consumption because of the inventory levels that were consumed on the chip side. So we see our view of MSI at around 6% growth. We see overall semi-fab utilization in the high 70s in 2025. And then on the ICS side, kind of the combination of the PCD and smartphones we see in the mid-single-digit range.

Thanks a lot. Your next question comes from the line of John Roberts from Mizzou. Your line is open.

Thank you. Congrats on a good quarter. Are you planning to change the name of Industrial Co. and any progress on industry reclassifications?

Yeah, so I'll do the names, and Industrial Co. will be due hot, and I'll send it every day at Tenella on the reclassification.

Yeah, so we're doing some work around reclassification, as we talked about before, with clearly the intent of getting that moved from, you know, the chemical classification to an industrial classification. The change would not necessarily be made until the separation is complete, but we are working on that, and that is clearly our intent as to where we should be and where we need to be.

And then secondly, are you planning on keeping water separate within industrial coasts that would preserve the option for a spin later on if that's what you wanted to do?

So water will be reported as a segment in New DuPont. I think that's probably the question that you're asking. So, you know, water would be a segment. We have to clarify all of this, but you can imagine we'll want to highlight water in healthcare, getting the growth profile. So those would be segments. within the new portfolio.

Thank you.

Your next question comes from a line of Michael Lee from Barclays. Your line is open.

Great. Thank you. Good morning to you. For the electronics, though, are we 100% headed for a spin here in November, or is there any chance of merging or selling these assets before then?

Yeah, we're headed for the spin.

Okay. And then I apologize if I missed. Yeah, I will.

But I will announce management teams before the end of this quarter, and we're already set with a full board slate for electronics, which we'll also be announcing before the end of the quarter.

Great. Thank you, Ed. And then I apologize if I missed this, but did you announce who your new chief commercial officer will be, and will they stay with industrial school, I presume?

He will stay with Investor Rules Co. His name is Laxmi Yaman in Chile. He's joining us from SKF next week.

Great.

Thank you. Your next question comes from a line of David Begleder from Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.

Thank you. Laurie, in semis, you referenced the flat sales in China in 25. Can you give a little more color as to why that's happening? And just how big is China for the entire semi-tech business? Thank you.

Yeah, so it's more around the normalization of the volume growth. versus demand. So in 2024 in China for semi, we saw 40% volume growth. So, and I had mentioned that probably overall we saw about $16 million in terms of pre-buy activity. So normalizing that against 2025 is why we see a flat volume within China for semi. Overall, Semi-China is about a $600 million market. About two-thirds of it is locally Chinese Semi-producers, and the rest are the multinationals that produce Semi-China.

And how much of your business is Semi-Tech as China?

That's the $600 million.

Oh, thank you for that.

So about 30% each.

Got it. And just on North American construction, any signs of progress in either resi or commercial? Thank you.

When you actually take a look at our shelter business, what I would say is we've actually fared pretty well given the environment that we're in. So as we talked about in the fourth quarter, we did see a little bit of softness on both the resi and non-resi side being offset by some growth in repair and remodel. And kind of, you know, as we go forward, we are currently anticipating, I would say, you know, low single-digit growth in that business for 2025.

Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Vincent Andrews from Morgan Stanley. Your line is open.

Thank you. I wanted to follow up on the divestitures discussion, and I'm just wondering, you know, with water now staying within Industrials Co., is there a window between now and spin where you can get some assets out of the business without having to assign, you know, pro rata PFAS liabilities to them? And if you don't get that done before November 1nd, You know, do they, presumably they would have to have liabilities assigned thereafter, and is November 1 really the hard date on that?

Yeah, so technically you could do a divestiture between now and November 1 and stay above the $2.9 billion threshold, and then therefore not have to assign PSOA. We're obviously fully focused on getting the electronic separation out November 1, and at that point we'll comply with the size of it. and pro-rata distribute the PSOA side letter agreement between new electronics and new components.

Okay. And then just on free cash flow for 2025, obviously you're going to have spin costs and other things that are going to be sort of clouding the underlying performance. So could you give us a sense of you obviously had excellent conversion this year, what you think 2025 might look like?

And so as we look to 2025 in our free cash flow conversions, we would expect it to be, you know, greater than 90%, which is kind of, The number that we've been focusing on, we've had really good conversion this year. We were at 105%. We did have a nice benefit of a lot of the practices we're putting in place related to working capital that helped us this year. As we go into next year and the growth that we're kind of expecting on both the electronics side and the industrial side, we will have some working capital usage. But again, we feel good that we'll be above the 90% conversion, excluding clearly all the transaction costs, which is how we've been reporting our free cash flow over the last couple of quarters.

Perfect. Thanks very much.

Your next question comes from a line of Mike Saison from Wells Fargo. Your line is open.

Hey, good morning. Nice quarter. So organic growth in industrial code in the fourth quarter, as well as your outlook in the first quarter, it appears pretty differentiated relative to traditional chemical companies where growth seems to be pretty negative. I suspect that helps your cause in getting that designation changed, but maybe can you remind us of what other metrics, margins, returns of capital, or sort of just make the case why this should be more of a multi-industrial business than a chemical business?

Yeah, no, I mean, obviously our... Our growth review would excise 2024 and expect in 2025, and then even the margin profile is significantly different than what you would see on the chemical side, and even just the volatility. Like, we don't have the swings in pricing that you may see with respect to due diligence levels in the commodity chemical side as well. So, any support that we can get in our endeavors from, you know, both the buying and sell side to be able to get that GIX code change would be really helpful because we do believe it's fundamental to how we are defining the new company. We'll target similar leverage profiles to the other multi-industrials. We'll have very strong margin profiles similar to the multi-industrials and a very similar growth trajectory.

And by the way, the last big piece we divested, which was the So we actively were part for, I think, seven years now to get to more of a multi-industrial company and out of the chemical space. So hopefully, good luck with changing the code.

Sounds good. And then just a quick follow-up. I think in the past, you talked about advanced nodes as a percent of electronics, which I assume includes AI-related sales. Can you remind us how big, I guess, advanced nodes are now for semi-tech and interconnect and then you know, maybe what the growth rate for the, for that subset will be in 25?

Yeah, so advancements are about 40% of the SEMI portfolio. Their growth obviously would be higher than the average six to seven that we had mentioned earlier in the call. We had said that for the AI specific exposure, we saw 30% growth within the SEMI business. So you would expect, you know, a nice outperformance in the advances versus the more mature No.

Okay, thank you.

Your next question comes from a line of Frank Mitch from Fermium Research. Your line is open.

Good morning, and let me echo the congrats on the quarter. You basically hit the trifecta in terms of exceeding guidance on sales EBITDA and EPS from what you provided. in the early part of November. So I'm curious as to what went right or what exceeded your expectations in November and December.

Yeah, so I'll take that as an example. So when you look at the electronic space, I would say that's the one that really drove the V. We did continue to have strong demand, and as we talked about a little bit earlier, we did have some, you know, pre-buy in there as well. I think the other important thing to mention when you kind of take a look at Q4 is not only did we exceed our expectations as we set them, but we also, you know, I would say covered incremental pressure from changes in foreign currency exchange rates. during the quarter as well but other areas so electronics was clearly a standout but as we talked about you know the water business was even a little bit better than we expected on a sequential basis up for the time that medical packaging business was slightly better than we expected biopharma was actually even a little bit better as well the only area that i would say we kind of expected is that auto would be softer And it was, sheltered was pretty much in line. So from an operations perspective, that's how I would characterize it. Now, when you take a look at total EPS, the other factor that we clearly had that drove the V was the tax rate in Q4 was a bit lower than we had anticipated. So that's in the number as well, relative to the fourth quarter. And we did talk about as we go into 2025, we do expect the tax rate to probably be about a point or so higher than where we kind of landed this year.

And as we sit here today, you know, in the early part of February, the segments that you thought were doing better, i.e., water, packaging, et cetera, has that continued at that pace? So the follow-through that you're seeing here in the early part of 2025? Yes.

It is playing out as you expect.

All right. Thanks so much.

Your next question comes from the line of Arun Viswanathan from RBC Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Good morning. This is Adam on for Arun. Thanks for taking my question and congratulations on the great quarter. I'd like to double click on the cash a little bit. I know you've said most of the cash deployment for the year is going to be related to transaction costs. Could you give us a sense on maybe the cadences on those costs or any of those going to linger into the fourth quarter, first quarter of next year. Those are mostly going to be advanced. Just thinking about when we could start thinking about resuming maybe cash deployment to other avenues.

Yeah, so when we talked about, you know, our transaction costs are around, you know, $700 million. We expect them to be slightly less now that we are retaining the water business within the portfolio. I would be mindful that from a cash perspective, as you can see in the schedules attached to our press release, that cash out this year related transaction costs was only 64 million. So a bulk of it is all sitting in 2025. I would also be mindful there could be some costs related to debt as well. That's in addition to those transaction costs, which is why the focus in 2025 is all around getting the separation done and kind of putting a majority of all those costs behind us. I mean, there could be a little bit of trickling that goes into the following year, but a majority of it will be 2025.

Great, thanks, and maybe if just we could quickly touch back. You mentioned health care and water assets potentially as targets for M&A going forward. Any additional color you give there, maybe on types of assets or parameters reduced to the search? Thanks.

Yeah, so we have an active pipeline in both the spaces, so we'll continue to look and see where we can pick up assets that would add to our portfolio. You know, within the water space, we would even broaden the aperture beyond just filtration and go into some of the other areas in order to be able to bulk up our exposure there. And within healthcare, you would expect a similar dynamic to what we've done with our last two acquisitions around Spectrum and Donatel. in the med device space. So, you know, bringing our capabilities to bear and adding new capabilities to the token.

Your next question comes from a line of Lawrence Alexander from Jefferies. Your line is open.

So, good morning. Just wanted to follow up on the comments around the construction outlook. What specifically are you assuming for remodeling activity? And also, what's your assumption around FX?

So for remodeling within shelter, our expectation as we go into 2025 and what's built into our guidance is that that would be relatively flat on a year-over-year basis.

Did you say FX, Lawrence, for your last question?

Yeah, just currency FX, yep.

Yeah, so we have about a 1.5% headwind in Q1 and then about a 1% headwind for the full year.

Perfect, thank you. Your final question comes from a line of Steve Byrne from Bank of America. Your line is open.

Yes, thank you. Laurie, you mentioned the fourth water treatment technologies in your remarks. I was curious whether any of the revenue in the water business is a service component such as monitoring or maintaining those treatment technologies and or do you have an interest in adding a service component to that business to help your industrial customers reduce water usage? Is that part of your vision in that business?

We don't have any service revenue today in the portfolio, but it will blow broadly in the water space to be able to add to our exposure services as well as other areas within the water landscape would be on the table.

I'm just curious about price trends in your various Tyvek products. You sell them in the construction, in the packaging, in the personal protection. How do those end markets differ in terms of price trends for those products?

Yeah, there's not really material deviations in price across all the different end markets within Tyvek. So it's a high value. We've got a lot of expertise in the Tyvek overall space, and we'll continue to benefit from the recovery on the medical package side as well.

Okay, thank you.

And that concludes our question and answer session. I will now turn the call back over to Chris McRae for closing remarks.

Thanks, everybody, for joining today. For your reference, a copy of our transcript will be posted on our website. This concludes the call. Thank you.

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.