Okeanis Eco Tankers Corp.

to the OET's First Quarter 2024 Financial Results presentation. We will begin shortly. Aristidis Alaphoussos, CEO, and Iraklis Varounas, CFO of Okeanos Echo Tankers, will take you through the presentation. We will be pleased to address any questions raised at the end of the call. I would like to advise you that this session is being recorded. Iraklis, Please begin the presentation now.

Welcome to the presentation of Okeanese Ecotankers results for the first quarter of 2024. We will discuss matters of the forward-looking nature and actual results may differ from the expectations reflected in such forward-looking statements. Please read through the relevant disclaimer on slide two. So starting the presentation on slide four and the executive summary, I'm pleased to present the highlights of the first quarter of 2024. It has been a very positive one. This marks the first quarter that we have been fully spot-exposed across both our VFCC and Suez Max fleets. We achieved fleet-wide time-chartered equivalent of over $63,000 per vessel per day, spot rates for VFCCs of $69,000 and spot Suez Maxes of $57,000. We report adjusted EBITDA of $65.2 million, adjusted net profit of $39.6 million, and adjusted EPS of $1.23. Our board declared an eighth consecutive capital distribution of $1.10 per share. That is about 90% of our adjusted EPS as we continue delivering on our promise to distribute value to our shareholders. We remain very positive on the market outlook in parallel to our commitment to distribute as much as possible, always taking into account our capital structure and overall cash position. On a four-quarters rolling basis, we have distributed $3.86 per share. That's 92% and 93%, respectively, of our reported and adjusted EBS over the same period. On a nominal basis, that's approximately $125 million. Slide 5, diving a little further into our P&L for the first three months of the year, TCE revenues stood at $81 million, EBITDA of $65 million, reported net income of $42 million. This quarter, we recognized an extraordinary non-cash gain of $2.3 million related to the amendments to our two leases on the VXCC's NISOS-KEA and NISOS-NICURGIA, which resulted in the recognition of a modification gain, as per IFRS, We expect to amortize that gain through the duration of the leases. Including such gain and other minor cash adjustments, our reported ETS came out at $1.29. Moving on to slide six and our balance sheet, we ended the quarter with $109 million of cash. You may remember the year-end cash balance was affected by a higher than usual amount of receivables, which were collected at the beginning of the year. Our debt, as of March 31, stood at $694 million, book leverage of 58%, while market-adjusted net LPV, based on our most recent broker values, has now been reduced to approximately 40%, continuing to stand at more than comfortable levels for us. On slide 7, we summarize our corporate and capital structure, as well as our employment profile. As we talked about earlier, since late December, our entire fleet is trading in the spot market, In the last quarter, we talked about four transactions that would materially improve our capital structure, including commencing with the Milos, the execution of the series of refinancings of our legacy expensive leases. We closed all four of these transactions within the quarter as expected. Overall, since the summer of 2023, we have improved the cost of debt on nine out of our 14 vessels by approximately 100 basis funds. while in parallel improving on other terms and extending maturities. The company is in a great and opportune position to take advantage of a competitive financing market landscape and the momentum achieved with all our last dam transactions as we're negotiating the refinancing of the polyamory, a significant milestone in improving our interest costs and capital structure. And we also continue to be on the lookout for creative opportunistic deals on other vessels. I'm now passing over the presentation to Aristidis for the commercial lab.

Thank you, Irakli. Q1 2024 was our first quarter of having a full quarter of 100% spot exposure. This is where we want to be in this point of the cycle, and we're very confident here. The market was very well balanced in Q1, and the floor was established with strong resistance levels. During Q1, there were three or four tight moments where we saw the market firm and position lists really tighten. And it genuinely felt as if it could really run upwards more, but it stalled out. The major charters, especially loading out of the AG on VLCCs, are very concentrated and effective at taking the steam out of the market when things get a bit tighter. Owners will break this control and take over the reins and control of the market. when we have a bit more power and there's a further driver. The market is currently balanced, as I said earlier, so we need a small impetus like some additional OPEC supply or seasonality to give us the strength. The effect of the closure of the Red Sea is now fully established in Q1 and it continues into Q2, and we've seen how crude trading patterns have changed on the crude market. Arab AG barrels, especially Iraqi, flowing to Europe on Suez Maxes via the Suez Canal. They're not either sold east or they're parceled up on VLCCs and sent to Europe via the Cape of Good Hope. Likewise, again, MED Suez Max cargo is either loading in Libya or Algeria or from the Black Sea, which would go east on Suez Maxes. They're now being parceled up again on VLCCs and getting sent around the Cape also. And we've capitalized on these types of voyages on our VLCCs and they worked out really well for us because we've been able to triangulate and minimize ballast to effectively nothing on some of our ships. Given we have to dry dock our 2019 built VLCCs this year, we took advantage of having our VLCC in the west to timely fix against these spikes we saw in Q1, our vessels to the east to position for the dry dock. These were highly profitable runs that outperformed the round voyage alternative of staying in the west by margin that offsets the value of being in the west. So we were happy to do these fixtures and I think we would have probably done these fixtures even if we didn't have the dry docks just because of the premium of the front haul versus the round voyage time chart equivalent. We planned the dry docks to occur during Q2 and Q3 in order to have the ships back and ready for a strong Q4. The dry docks are expected to take 15 to 20 days, and the vessels will undergo thorough maintenance, as well as sailing out with new high spec painting schemes that will actually make these ships more efficient than when they were delivered to us as new buildings. During the quarter, we have achieved a fleet YPC of 63,600 per operating day. Our VLCCs generated $68,800 per day in the spot market, and this is a 47% outperformance relative to all our tanker peers that have reported Q1 earnings. Our SWIS Max has generated $56,700 per spot day, and that's a 10% outperformance relative to our tanker peers who have also reported Q1 earnings. These numbers reflect our actual book TCEs within the quarter as per our account expense. And we move on to slide 10 for guidance on Q2. Q2 was another balanced and strong quarter where OET avoided some of the seasonal weakness in rates. For the past two weeks, we're experiencing this tightness in the market that I mentioned in the previous slide. If the owners had slightly more drive and confidence, we could really see rates push on. This being said, I would not be surprised if we have a summer surprise and we see a decent spike going into the summer. Overall, in Q2 and Q1, our trading strategy has changed a bit on the Vs and the Suez Maxes. The Suez Max fleet, since we don't go through the Red Sea, we've lost the natural backhaul from the AG to the Europe. So the front hauls, either you have to price them on a round-trip voyage or ballast back. This has made us adjust to trading the vessels more exclusively in the West. and avoiding getting stuck out in the east without a backhaul. We always prefer trading in the west on Suez Maxis. While on the VLCCs, we're positioning, as I mentioned earlier, for the dry docks, and we have a strong presence in the east at the moment, which we haven't had since 2022. Once we complete the dry docks, though, on the VLCCs, we will likely return to a strategy where we minimize ballast, and we trade our VLCCs with a focus on getting back to the west, using backhauls and then fixing front hauls east or staying local when we think that the premium is not big enough to take the front haul east. So far in Q2, we fixed 71% of our fleet spot days at $70,600 per day. We've done 82% of our VLCC spot days at $75,900 per day. That's a 50% outperformance relative to our tanker peers who have reported Q2 earnings. and 57% of our Suezmax spot days at $60,800 per day, and that's a 48% outperformance relative to our thinker peers that have reported Q2 earnings. On slide 11, we have reformatted our outperformance slide. I think what we try to show here that this is a proven and consistent outperformance that grows when the market is strong, and those extra earnings in a firm market are very material. So at OET, we're really focused on maintaining this consistency going forward and keeping the outperformance strong in the following quarters. On slide 12, we think that OPEC Plus has given stability to market prices and kept inventory levels in a steadily decreasing trajectory overall. We had expected OPEC Plus to return some barrels in June or July, but this potentially made delay until later in the year due to the relative softening of oil prices. The side effect of OPEC Plus stabilizing the market are the abnormalities that occur when you effectively regulate a market. The floor in pricing has encouraged non-OPEC supply non-OPEC supply growth to effectively match global oil demand growth. This is occurring when OPEC's spare capacity has been slowly growing due to the cuts and new production coming online. One question we have is how long will OPEC be able to manage their partners? With oil prices this high and an energy transition in progress, we expect a weakening control of OPEC over its members. And we expect more cheating and even a decent chance of countries breaking out and producing outside of their quotas. This is obviously very bullish for the market. On slide 13, we look at the supply setup that seems too good to be true. A staggering amount of tonnage reaches the commercially restrictive age of 15 and 20 years over the next six years. While shipyard capacity is steadily reduced and the quality yards that build tankers are focused on higher profit margin assets, like containers, LNGCs, VLGCs, car carriers, etc. The Red Sea situation has also caused a large tailwind to the container sector freight, which without would have had serious headwinds due to the delivery order book. This will bring a further new-built contracting wave on containers, which we will see materialize over the coming months. These future container orders will further restrict berth availability for tankers, and will reduce the potential supply for 27, 28, and onwards. Finally, although asset prices are high due to the strength in freight currently, the expected strength in future freight, and the high new building costs, we still believe there's material upside to values when we enter the phase where we see very strong freight strength in 25 and 26. So it's a unique and exciting time to be in tankers, and I'm handing it back to the operator. Thank you.

We will now open the lines for questions. You can register your question by pressing star one on your telephone keypad, ensuring you are unmuted locally. If you'd like to withdraw your question at any time, you can do so by pressing star followed by two. We'll just pause here briefly to compile the Q&A roster. So the first question comes from the line of Liam Burke of V Reilly. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Yes, thank you. Good morning or good afternoon. Your VLCCs are due to the rerouting of traffic. The VLCCs are taking share from the SUEZmax, but rates seem to be pretty elevated on a normalized basis. Is there any offset on the Suezmax, possibly not an increase in non-OPEC plus production?

Yeah, for sure, because I also think that the amount of oil that Suezmaxs were delivering from the Arabian Gulf to Europe prior to the Red Sea situation on Suezmax is predominantly is a lot more today than what it is being delivered today on VLCC. So this gap in oil is transported from some other origin, whether it's West Africa or the U.S. Gulf or Brazil. And, you know, these are decent length voyages and predominantly they will use Suez Maxis because we have to remember that the Mediterranean especially is not a basin that's designed to discharge VLCCs. We have discharged two, three, maybe on the way to do four VLCCs in Europe, and everything has been via STS onto Suez Maxis. So it also, like these VLCC voyages, also create additional Suez Max voyages. And whenever you have an STS, you know, you never know when the ship will arrive, either our ship or the ship that's coming, the weather delays. So you create additional Suezmax voyage from the VLCC rerouting as well. So I think it's both a combination of non-OPEC Suezmax cargoes from the Atlantic Basin bringing on Suezmaxes, plus the inefficiency of VLCCs and the requirement to lighter onto Suez.

Thank you. And you mentioned it's obvious asset valuations are pretty elevated. Even in this environment, is there any interest or any possibility of adding assets?

Look, I mean, we've been fairly prudent. I mean, we've been very prudent since, I don't know, since 2021 when we bought the last VLCC delivering in 2022. We're very happy with the fleet. We don't necessarily need to add assets at the moment. We definitely don't want to add any assets that disrupt potential dividend payments. So that's the number one concern of making sure we can keep returning our profits to shareholders. So I wouldn't say that it's very likely that we will be purchasing assets. Although we do see material upside to the values of assets and there are some ships being sold right now that are sister ships to ours. Last done last year was around 113 that Bari bought in 2019. This year the ship is six years old, so it's depreciated by whatever five, six percent or But I actually think that this price that these ships will be sold at, which are also 2019, will be higher than 113. So I think we're there to see another small step up in valuation again.

Great. And I apologize for this last question, but I didn't get it. In the prepared statements, you talked about outdistancing the benchmarks. I believe the Suez Max's rates outdistanced the comps by 10%. I didn't get the BLCCs. And again, I apologize for that.

No problem. So, the SEWS in Q1, the SEWS Max has outperformed all our comps by 10%. The VLCCs in Q1 outperformed all our comps by 47%. And in Q2, given the percentage of days we fixed, we outperformed by 50% all our comps who reported by 50% on VLCCs and 48% on SUSMACs.

Great. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

The next question comes from the line of Petter Haugen of ABG. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Thank you. And good morning and good afternoon, guys. To start out where the earlier question ended on the outperformance, could you elaborate in a little bit more detail because, well, as you say, you yesterday or the day before DHT is guiding 451,422 on their pretty sort of modern fleet of VLCCs while you today come to the market with close to $76,000 per day. It almost sounds too good to be true. And please explain to me why it's not.

Yeah, I mean, I can't really explain why others are higher or lower, but I mean, I can explain. We've really managed to be able to fix, first of all, we had a lot of ships in the West. So these were doing round voyages, which historically have outperformed the TD3 market. And because of the dry docks and because we felt that the west was slowly becoming oversaturated and this premium to the east was eroding, we thought it was time to go east. So we had ships that were opening in the North Sea. We had ships that were opening in the Med. We fixed the ship opening North Sea to load in the North Sea to go to China. So if our competitor has the same distance ballast and laden, And where we have, you know, 500 miles, one day ballast or two days ballast, and then 60 laden, you can see how the TC is going to be excellent for us because we have no ballast days. And the same goes for two or three ships in the Med. Again, we were discharging in the Med on these cargoes coming from the AG or from the U.S. Gulf. And then we found, um, opportunity to load in the Med again. So minimal ballast one, two, three days and sale, you know, all the way down around Africa to China or to Korea. Um, so the effect of triangulation that we've been able to achieve is really, really, um, advantageous for us. It's also a benefit that we have a relatively small fleet, so we're very flexible in being able to choose the exact cargo that we want. And having very good relationships, you know, that the company and the family have had for the past 40 years now in tankers that, you know, they've been maintained over that period as well.

Thank you. But then again, you're no positioning ships to the east. It sounded as if it's perhaps a little bit more sort of frontal weighted in the Q2 regarding that. Well, first question, should we expect more ballast and less of an outperformance in Q3 and possibly Q4 when the dry docks are done?

I like how you said less of an outperformance. Yeah, potentially. Look, I think once the dry docks are done, the first voyage post dry dock, it's always a bit of a challenge because you lose your approvals and the charters are a bit concerned about some outdated issues that, you know, ships had 30 years ago, but because shipping is a slow changing industry, they've kept on. So the first voyage might, you know, it's not going to be the ideal voyage that we want, but we're going to find something short and quick to get it over with. And then we're going to get back to the way we usually trade ships. So repositioning to the West on these nice back halls and then fixing front halls East again.

Okay. And in terms of dry ducts, um, How many days do you plan now to spend for each of them and what would you then, in terms of the number of days again, characterize as standard sort of work to be done? What is additional? I guess the painting jobs is needed to be done either way. But if you have any additional days or effects in terms of, I'm sorry, capex in terms of upgrade

So the expected duration in the dry dock is 16 days at the moment. It could go a day quicker. Usually things delay a bit longer, but we've guided 15 to 20 days. I think you mentioned something about maintenance. Yeah, I mean, we're going to do everything that's required for our ships to perform without issues as they have been performing for the next five years. So we want to overhaul, you know, major equipment that we don't want to have issues with and have commercial off-hire time going forwards. And the ships have been running very hard. I mean, since 2022, Our fleet's been basically sailing at full speed the whole time, and we've left very little time for the manager to do any kind of extra maintenance. So the dry dock, we need to do a good job here. The paint scheme that we're using, we're using two types of paint. One is pure silicone by Hempel, and another is a slightly more conventional by Jotun. We're really positive about the effects of these paints. We've used the Hempel on one of our Suez Maxes, and we saw there that her performance was better than when she was delivered. So we're quite excited about the effects of those paints. And I think we expect the whole cost, including all expenses, including port costs and everything like that, to come in slightly above $2 million.

Peter, keep in mind, we are just a reminder, we are capitalizing both dry dog expenses as well as the paint costs.

Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. We are aware of that. A quick sort of related question. we will come in to sort of, well, your ships are 2019 doing the first dry dock, but there is also quite a few 2009 built ships, which will do their third dry dock. Should we expect an abnormal amount of dry dock days in the fleet this year? And, yeah, what is then, well, is there sufficient dry dock capacity in the east for all the dry docks that will be done now with the sort of delivery boom we saw back in 2009-10?

I think in the next years when we see the wave of deliveries of 9, 10, 11, 12, which were very heavy delivery years, obviously we will see a higher number of ships being dry docked and a decrease in the available VLCC fleets. which is positive for the market. I think, though, that the market does have capacity to dry dock the ships. I haven't heard that as a concern. It's just that perhaps some people might not find optimum yard quality that they'd like or optimum slot timing. So, you know, we were very concerned about the quality of the yard, for being able to overhaul the machinery that we want and to do the work we want and to apply the painting correctly, but also to have the slot that we want. So for us, it was very key that we can get the ships in at some point in the summer. They can do that first voyage and be all ready for a Q4 spike. So that's been the strategy for us all along. And that's also why Nisa Sanati, she's a 2020 built VLCC. She doesn't technically need to do her dry dock until next year, but we're going to bring it forward so we don't have to be dry docking a ship in January, February of Q1 and missing out that strong market, which theoretically should be a lot firmer than what June or July may be.

Sounds wise. Just the final question from me on the market side of things. GST or the US Gulf is perhaps, at least from the screen I'm looking, not seemingly booming these days. It seems to be a bit slow. Well, the first part is, is that correct? Is the US Gulf slower than it's been through the winter? And what is your expectation on the other side of the summer in terms of of activity after the U.S.

Gulf? I think the activity within the U.S. Gulf often depends a lot about the ARB opportunities and sometimes they're more open and sometimes they're more closed and it may affect the liftings within that month. But what's for sure is that the West is tight and the West has been attracting ships from the east and that's what's been balancing the east as well. So there is activity from the west and it has helped bring up the east rates and keep them out of the market balance. So if we see, if your data shows that perhaps there's been a bit of a drop off in listings out of the US Gulf and we see that revert to let's say last year's average, It should be really bullish. It should be relatively bullish on the market because, you know, there'll be these cargoes and the West is already tight and it'll force more people to ballot. And yeah, so overall, we're positive. I think it's just a matter of time until, you know, we have one of those drivers that I mentioned. It's either more supply from OPEC or seasonality coming into play or some other geopolitical issue that really puts this market on the next level up.

Okay, thank you. Thanks, Father. Bye, Peter.

The next question comes from the line of Benedict Mittington of Clarkson Security. Your line is open. Please go ahead. Thank you.

Good afternoon, guys.

Good afternoon. Hi. Hi. You're now 100% spots, which is where you want to be at this point in the cycle. But is there any level or rate range where you will start to lock in earnings or any sort of dynamic that would have to change before you change your strategy?

Yeah, well, I mean, like most Greeks, our rate ideas are always 5,000 or 10,000 above the market. So whether they go up tomorrow, they'll probably readjust upwards. But we have some numbers that we think are attractive for five-year deals. I think as the market strengthens, the three-year deal owners will start commanding longer-term period deals in order to give their ships away and will move into a potential deal that can more commonly for five years. And if we get to the levels that we consider attractive, we definitely would fix out the ships. I don't think that that potential will come this year. But going forward into 2025, when we really see the tightness of the lack of supply and more oil on the water, it's a potential. It's definitely one of the things we're considering about at the time of the cycle where we need to capitalizes the investment, but we really don't feel like we're that close to that point yet. There's still more upwards to go.

Makes sense. And if I can just have one more question. You mentioned that the appetite for adding assets is not very high now, but if you were to grow, Would you prefer VLs or the SwissMAPS segment and why?

It depends. Overall, I think the VLCC market is less ordered at the moment. So we probably lean on the VLCC market. The VLCC market also has become a lot more flexible and you're able to triangulate the ships a lot more than what you were five years ago. So, you know, having, as I mentioned earlier to B Riley, that, you know, the size of our fleet being relatively nimble and having good relationships, having more VLCCs and having these niche backhaul opportunities or front haul cargos, I would, today I would say that we'd prefer to expand into the VLCC market if you force it. Or if you got us a good deal.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

The next question comes from Erica Hubber-Bilsen of Pareto Securities. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Hi, Eric. Hi, guys. I'm getting a lot of questions, of course. We've touched upon it already on the on the outperformance, but, um, cause I mean, it is as, uh, as Petra said, uh, a little bit hard to comprehend. I, I just see that, um, you've done a few cargos out of the black sea. It seems like at least in Q2 so far on SUSE Maxis. Um, so, so just wanted to, I mean, I, I realized CPC, there's no, obviously no sanctions, there's no issues related to it, but, I mean, it's slightly higher risk, I would say, than kind of mainstream Atlantic Suezmax cargo. So just wanted to hear your thinking around that and what makes you, you know, how you're comfortable doing that. And then secondly, also on the VOCC, it looks also like you've done some cargos, at least two out of Venezuela. Again, no issues, no sanction, nothing at all, but just one thing to understand the premiums you were able to get there and your thinking around that, because obviously few of the other listed companies are doing it now for whatever reason that might be. So just wanted to hear your thinking around that.

Yeah, I mean, that sounds like sour grapes, but sure, we can answer that. I think if you look at where ships load crude oil, other than Norway and the U.S. Gulf, almost every other place is a place that has an additional worst premium that you need insurance for, whether it's West Africa, whether it's the HG, whether it's Libya, whether it's the Black Sea. If you look at, like, let's say if we do some statistics and see where have there been more incidents on VLCCs or Suez Maxis. I think the most dangerous place you could go is probably the AG. I wouldn't say it's the Black Sea. It's definitely not Libya or West Africa. And the AG is somewhere that everyone goes. The Suezmax cargo that we lifted from the Black Sea in 2024, they were all from CPC, and I think most of them were fixtures to a US oil major. We don't, we haven't carried any Russian oil under the price cap in 2024 or in most of 2023, since the beginning of 2023. So the outperformance is, you know, cargoes that are available and safe. I don't think that there's any higher risk of loading in Libya, West Africa, Venezuela, Black Sea. than there is in the AG. And the AG is somewhere where everyone goes, as I said. And our job, you know, of course, safety is a concern. And the crews, you know, they've been with my family for some of them for 25 years. So there's a very close relationship with these people. But once we get past and we feel comfortable with the safety, our job is to make as much money for the shareholders as we can. And some of these cargoes that we can find are also because of the relationships we have, which we mentioned earlier. And perhaps some of the companies that use like, you know, pools or, yeah, especially the pools which don't have the relationships we have, they won't get access to these cargoes. So I think it's more acumen rather than risk.

Very good. Thank you. No sour grapes. Just genuine questions being asked because I get them. So I have to ask you.

No, not by you, by the person asking.

Okay. All right. Thank you, guys. But thank you. Thanks, Eric.

The next question comes from Climent Molens of Value Investors Edge. Your lines are open. Please go ahead.

Good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. Most has already been covered, but I have a couple of modeling questions. First, it still may be a bit early to tell, but should we expect a negative effect from low-to-discharge accounting on the back end of the quarter? And secondly, general administrative expenses increased noticeably quarter over quarter. Is this attributable to the U.S. listing, and should we expect this to be a one-off?

Yeah, Carmen, hey, I'll answer both. On the ballast days and the loads of discharge, it's still a bit early to have a clear picture for what's going to happen at the end of the quarter. So, you know, I would expect, you know, a slight effect like we see quarter on quarter. Obviously, one thing to keep in mind, and I think it's quite evident by the results that we report every two months, that it's, you know, beneficial to look at both the actual results of the reported quarter as well as the guidance figures for the next one. together because there's obviously a relationship, and when we do see an impact towards the end of the quarter, obviously this is always captured in the following one. On GNA, you rightly point out there's, I mean, since last year there's been an increase in our GNA expenses. The U.S. listing element has two sides. One was which has been we've been hit by that mostly in 2023. It's what I would call as one of expenses and some of that has actually been incurred this side of the year as well as some of the expenses we received towards the end of the year. There's also an element of the ongoing expenses that we will incur due to our listing in the U.S. and, in fact, due to our dual listing. So some of the increased administrative expenses, unfortunately, is here to stay. I think our target, and looking at the budgets and how it looked like last year, our target is... uh to do better uh through the rest of the year compared to last year uh but i wouldn't expect it to be anywhere close to 2022. so i kind of think that's the range with something closer to 2023. now having said all that it's a bit hard to extrapolate the total expense for the entire year if you look at individual quarters because there is quite a significant variation between quarters. And I do expect that both Q1 and Q2 will be higher than what we see towards the rest of the year. So keep that in mind.

That's very helpful. Thank you. That's all from me. Congratulations for the quarter. Thanks. Thank you.

As there are no additional questions waiting at this time, I'd like to hand the conference back over to Eraqus for closing remarks.

Perfect. Thanks, everyone, for listening in. I think it was a quite productive call. We look forward to speaking again in August. Thank you. Thank you very much. Have a nice afternoon.