4/27/2023

speaker
Operator

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Element Solutions Q1 2023 Financial Results Conference Call. Today's call is being recorded and all lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press the star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, you must press star 1 again. Thank you. I will now turn the call over to Varun Gokarn, Senior Director of Strategy and Finance. Please go ahead.

speaker
spk06

Good morning, and thank you for participating in our first quarter 2023 earnings conference call. Joining me are our Executive Chairman, Sir Martin Franklin, CEO Ben Glicklich, and CFO Kerry Dorman. In accordance with regulation FD or fair disclosure, we are webcasting this conference call. Any redistribution, retransmission, or rebroadcast of this call in any form without the express written consent of Element Solutions is strictly prohibited. During today's call, we will make certain forward-looking statements that reflect our current views about the company's future performance and financial results. These statements are based on assumptions and expectations of future events that are subject to risks and uncertainties. Please refer to our earnings release, supplemental slides, and most recent SEC filings. for discussion of material risk factors that could cause actual results to differ from our expectations and predictions. These materials can be found on the company's website at www.elementsolutionsinc.com in the investor section under news and events. Today's materials also include financial information that has not been prepared in accordance with the U.S. GAAP. Please refer to the earnings release and supplemental slides for definitions and reconciliations of these non-GAAP measures to comparable GAAP financial metrics. It is now my pleasure to introduce Element Solutions CEO, Ben Glicklich.

speaker
Martin Franklin

Thank you, Varun, and good morning, everybody. Thank you for joining. In the first quarter, Element Solutions delivered on its financial commitments. We grew adjusted EBITDA sequentially and reported results in line with our guidance, despite continued softness in electronics end markets and Asian economies more broadly. Portfolio diversification and cost containment softened the impact of decline in key end markets like mobile. Our organic sales performance reflects the consumer electronics malaise that began in the middle of last year and has driven broad-based volume declines across the industry. Organic sales were down 7% over the first quarter of 2022. Notably, that quarter was our largest for sales and EBITDA since we launched ESI. This quarter's sales results include an 11% decline in Europe electronic segment that was partially offset by 2% organic growth in industrial and specialty. The INS segment was buoyed by resilience in Western automotive markets and a solid recovery in offshore energy production. Demand in the Americas and Europe, while soft, is playing out largely as we expected entering the year. However, recovery in China post-COVID reopening and Lunar New Year has been slower than expected. When demand will recover in Asia and in electronics markets remains uncertain, but there are good reasons for second-half optimism. Semiconductor customers expect increased utilization rates in late Q2 and into Q3, and related sectors should follow. While only a portion of our electronics sales go into front-end-of-line semiconductors, they are a leading indicator. There were bright spots in Q1. Our power electronics offerings continue to perform very well as EV production rates accelerated and customer traction for certain new electronics and industrial applications bodes well for outside growth when markets recover. Our energy solutions business is also growing ahead of our expectations. Commercial and technical execution has been solid. On the cost side, we're beginning to benefit from a normalization in logistics prices and deflation in certain raw materials. driving a sequential improvement in gross margins that we expect to continue through the remainder of the year. We're also enforcing tighter control on discretionary spending and driving process efficiencies through our supply chain and in G&A. This is not coming at the cost of long-term growth. We're still investing in strategic focus areas and maintaining the resources needed to support the market recovery when it arrives. Given the variable cost nature of our business, we have additional levers to reduce costs in the second half should expected demand not fully materialize. Commercially, our teams remain focused on delivering exceptional products and services. Our customers and technology support attractive markets such as electric vehicles, 5G-enabled electronics, and sustainable chemistry solutions, markets that will grow. We've also continued to deploy our capital effectively into high returning investments that we believe will continue to compound per share earnings. Periods of low demand and market uncertainty often generate unique opportunities. We believe 2023 may be such an environment and expect to exit this year better positioned than when we entered it. Carrie will now take you through our first quarter business results in more detail. Carrie. Thanks, Ben. Good morning, everyone. On slide three, you can see a summary of our first quarter financial results. Organic sales declined 7% year over year, and constant currency adjusted EBITDA declined 18%. The disproportionate reduction in profitability reflects a tough comparison against last year's record sales and profit quarter. In Q1 2022, carryover strength in the high-end smartphone supply chain contributed to significant high margin sales. Those same markets experienced substantially reduced demand in the first quarter, of 2023, driving 11% organic sales decline in our electronics business. Our net sales in adjusted EBITDA were also both impacted by a strengthening US dollar by roughly 4 percentage points. Our industrial and specialty segment grew sales organically 2%, primarily due to improved activity in the offshore energy business and new customer ramp up in graphics, which offset weakness in our industrial surface treatment business in China.

speaker
Ben

Our first quarter adjusted EBITDA of $112 million was 4% higher sequentially, as gross margins benefited from improving raw material costs.

speaker
Martin Franklin

In constant currency terms, adjusted EBITDA margin declined 150 basis points year over year. Electronic segment adjusted EBITDA margin was negatively impacted by volume declines in higher margin circuitry and semiconductor applications, partially offset by reduced pass-through metals prices.

speaker
Ben

Industrial segment margins were negatively impacted by May.

speaker
Martin Franklin

Adjusted EBITDA margins improved sequentially 70 basis points from Q4 2022, reflecting the easing headwinds from higher logistics that we experienced through much of last year, as well as non-metal raw materials that were modestly deflationary. Significantly lower prices on pass-through metals, such as tin and silver, were a slight tailwind to margins relative to Q1 2022, excluding the impact of the $83 million of pass-through metal sales in our assembly solutions business. our adjusted EBITDA margin would have been 23% in the first quarter. On slide four, we share additional detail on the drivers of organic net sales growth in our two segments. In electronics, mobile phone and consumer electronics demand had the most material impacts. Our automotive electronics business remained resilient, particularly for electric vehicles. In the first quarter, our electronics continued to grow nicely as production of high-end electric vehicles accelerated. However, overall semiconductor solutions declined 19% organically, reflecting reduced utilization levels at semiconductor fabs. Assembly declined only 5% as it is less weighted towards mobile and consumer electronics. Circuitry solutions declined 17% organically, as persistent smartphone weakness continued from the end of last year. Customers across the mobile supply chain saw immediately lower production volumes, while other electronics hardware production also declined. Additionally, we are comparing against a period of particularly strong performance in cloud computing and data storage that benefited our memory disk business early in 2022. We expect demand from both smartphone suppliers and memory disk customers to improve in the second half of 2023. For the first quarter, organic net sales and industrial specialty increased 2% year-over-year. Industrial solutions declined 1% organically. as demand in the European construction and industrial market slowed from the strong levels we saw a year ago, and automotive production in China remained strong. Overall, our automotive business performed in line with global auto production in the first quarter, which was resilient in the West but soft in China. Third-party estimates of China auto production recovery have been pushed out and inform a more cautious view on sequential acceleration in this business in the second quarter. Graphic solutions sales increased organically by 9%, reflecting a rampant new business and pricing, which has only partially offset inflation thus far. Energy solutions was a bright spot, with sales growing 25% organically in the quarter, as production and drilling activity has rebounded.

speaker
Ben

We expect continued growth for this business throughout the year. Slide five addresses cash flow and the balance sheet.

speaker
Martin Franklin

We generated $45 million of free cash flow in the first quarter, including a $13 million investment into working capital. which reflects a seasonal inventory build. This quarter, we also made our $16 million semiannual cash interest payment on our outstanding senior notes. Capital in the quarter was 9 million, which is below the annual runway we expect for this year. This number should ramp up certain growth projects and integration initiatives get off the ground. Turning to the balance sheet, our net leverage ratio at the end of the quarter was 3.3 times, a slight increase from the end of 2022. In March, we opportunistically extended the maturity date of $360 million, or roughly half of our interest rate in cross-currency swaps that were previously set to mature in January 2024 to January 2026. We expect this will increase cash interest by roughly $5 million this year, but these actions help mitigate future interest rate risk. Swap maturities on our term loan are now split evenly over the next three years. And our capital structure is 100% fixed rate until 2024 and more than 80% fixed rate until 2025. We have no debt maturities until 2026, and our liquidity position remains strong.

speaker
Ben

And with that, I will turn it back to Ben. Thanks, Gary.

speaker
Martin Franklin

While the business in Europe and the Americas has been resilient, we exited the first quarter in a weaker demand environment than was generally anticipated due to Asian and electronics markets. From what we've seen to date, we are reluctant to forecast a steep sequential improvement in our end markets in the second quarter. We expect adjusted EBITDA to be approximately $120 million. This sequential improvement assumes a benefit for more selling days and modest sequential gross margin improvement due to ongoing pricing activity, commercial execution, and raw material deflation. Our conversations with customers and suppliers still support our expectation of a demand inflection in the second half of the year. We'll be growing off a lower baseline, which translates to the low end of our prior $510 to $530 million full-year 2023 guidance range. We still expect to generate roughly $275 million in free cash flow for the full year. Our ability to reduce operating expense and preserve profitability as we've demonstrated in prior periods of market weakness, remains. However, you should not expect us to present a significant restructuring program. Our primary costs are our people, and they are the key to our moat and the engine for our growth. We've invested in a culture, capability, and team that are resilient in down markets and have positioned the company to benefit disproportionately from the long-term growth drivers in our markets. We're conscious and considerate of our spending in all market environments, and this ongoing air pocket of demand does not change how we view the long-term trajectory of our business. We're pleased with how the team is executing in this environment and its ability to focus on key breakthrough strategic objectives, supporting customers, and growing our sales pipeline to take advantage of end market acceleration without losing cost discipline in the short term. You should expect that to continue. To wrap up, I'd like to thank all of our stakeholders for their continued support, and in particular, our talented and dedicated people around the world. With that, operator, please open the line for questions.

speaker
Operator

At this time, I would like to remind everyone, if you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. We ask that you limit yourself to one question and one follow-up. We will pause for just a moment to compile the Q&A roster. Your first question comes from the line of Josh Spector with UBS. Your line is open.

speaker
Josh Spector

Yeah, hey, guys. Thanks for taking my question. I just wanted to ask about kind of how you're thinking about the cadence here through the rest of the year. So you talked about levers that could help with costs in the second half. You lowered your EBITDA expectations, but you didn't lower your range. So if we get a weaker recovery, do you still think you can get to the low end of your range with the leverage that you have, or would that be a different scenario than what you're forecasting?

speaker
Ben

Thanks for the question, Josh.

speaker
Martin Franklin

Yeah, so as we guided in the first quarter, we thought the cadence half over half would be something like, $240 million at EBITDA in the first half and $280 million in the second half at the midpoint. Obviously, we delivered on our first quarter expectation, but our expectations for the second quarter are dampened by demand. We are communicating today that the ramp we expected in the second half is increasingly likely relative to what we thought a couple of months ago but the exit velocity coming out of the first quarter is a bit lower we have retained all of the cost levers that we would have had in a normal year as we enter the second quarter and expect to have them entering the second half as well in case uh in case that ramp doesn't materialize or the magnitude of the ramp is inadequate to deliver on that guidance. So yeah, we do believe we have ample cost capacity entering the second half to deliver on our guidance.

speaker
Josh Spector

Okay, no, I appreciate that. And I wanted to ask second, this might be too early to give a deep comment, but there's some headlines circulating around Germany and basically electronics or semi-chemicals limitations on shipments into China. Do you have any way to think about, you know, risk there for you or, you know, your sales flow in that direction?

speaker
Martin Franklin

Yeah, you know, it's been a dynamic regulatory environment for high-end electronics going on a couple years now, and we have been nimble to ensure compliance. I'd say that our value at the very leading edge in semiconductor is less than our value into printed circuit boards or assembly materials. And the Chinese local market for leading edge semiconductor is smaller than, you know, in Taiwan or Korea or North America. So we don't see a significant impact should regulatory frameworks change in the semiconductor space. You know, our small portion of front end of line semiconductor sales is already been subject to these sorts of export controls. So it's not a big

speaker
Ben

needle mover based on what we can see today, but of course, that's a dynamic situation. Okay. Thanks, Ben.

speaker
Operator

Your next question comes from the line of John Roberts with Credit Suisse. Your line is open.

speaker
John Roberts

Great. Thank you. SG&A in the quarter was only down a few percent from a year ago in spite of the much weaker start to the year. I assume you're accruing your compensation in the first quarter to that full year EBITDA target that's there? And if it doesn't materialize in the back year in terms of recovery, you would just reverse some of those accruals later in the year?

speaker
Martin Franklin

Yeah, so that relates to Josh's question as well. You know, we are coiling the cost spring as we move along through the year. We have not taken significant actions to reduce costs. I would say right now we're in a cost containment mode, right, being very thoughtful about where we're adding costs, but we're not actively reducing expense at the moment. We're always considerate of our spend, but there's plenty of opportunity, I would say, entering the second half for us to reduce costs to deliver on our financial commitments should demand not materialize.

speaker
John Roberts

And then on slide four, the much lower growth in the assembly business, how different is the China in mobile exposure for assembly relative to the circuitry and semiconductor end markets?

speaker
Martin Franklin

Yeah, the assembly business outperformed the circuitry and semi businesses in the first quarter. because it's more broadly exposed to electronics and automotive than the circuitry and semiconductor businesses which skew towards the high end. And we saw that in the fourth quarter as well. So the assembly business has significantly outperformed higher end electronics markets because of its mix, bigger presence in North America, wading into general automotive. And that's a trend that we would expect to continue

speaker
Ben

insofar as there's continued weakness in mobile markets, for example. Thank you.

speaker
Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Kieran Debrun with Mizuho Securities. Your line is open.

speaker
Kieran Debrun

Hey, good morning. I was wondering, just in terms of semiconductor and circuitry, if you can dial in a little bit more on how things have changed in the first quarter. where your expectations were in 4Q. I think we've had a few announcements from some of the big semiconductor players in terms of how they're planning on running some of their semiconductors and the fabulization throughout the beginning of the year and into the back half of the year, as well as some revisions in terms of expectations for mobile handsets in the back half of the year. So, you know, in the context of some of the industry commentary, if you can just provide color of how your expectations have changed or have evolved since you spoke at 4Q, that would be helpful.

speaker
Martin Franklin

absolutely right so the circuitry and semi businesses skew towards higher end electronics mobile devices being a core end market there um handsets were down you know nearly 20 year-over-year in the first quarter um which wasn't far from what folks would have expected entering the year what's changed is uh the the timing of the ramp um in the high end so entering the year i think there was some um talk of a ramp in the second quarter our What we've seen is that we didn't see a strong recovery in China coming out of Lunar New Year post-COVID lockdowns. And the tone is of a ramp late in the second quarter, early third quarter. But we have more reference points today than we did a couple months ago supporting that assertion. So we've heard mobile OEMs talking about production rates ramping in July. We've heard semiconductor fabricators talking about in the second quarter and beginning to recover late in the second quarter and into Q3. And so, you know, we believe that a recovery in these markets is increasingly likely, and that's the basis for our look forward. And so what's changed, I would say, is the second quarter is softer than we would have thought a few months ago, and the back half ramp is more likely.

speaker
Kieran Debrun

Great. And then maybe just a quick follow-up on cash flows. You still have a pretty strong outlook for the year. You have a pretty decent amount of cash on hand. So how should we think about maybe capital deployment priorities as we go through the remainder of the year?

speaker
Martin Franklin

Yeah, so the hallmark of this business is stable margins and strong cash flow in all environments. And our guide reflects that dynamic. So we're going to generate in around $275 million of free cash flow this year. We have cash on hand. I would say that the opportunity cost of that cash and the actual cost of our capital is higher today than it's been. And so we're being very measured with regard to capital deployment. We do believe that you can get unique opportunities in markets like the one we're in right now. And we're certainly looking for those, but we're going to be very prudent

speaker
John Tanwantang

Great, thank you.

speaker
Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Angel Castillo with Morgan Stanley. Your line is open.

speaker
Angel Castillo

Hello, thanks for taking my question. This is actually Stefan Diaz, sitting in for Angel. Morning, Stefan. I believe last quarter your guidance was predicated on handset volumes being flat for the full year. I was just wondering what's embedded in your guide now.

speaker
Martin Franklin

Yeah, so end market assumptions or end market forecasts have changed a bit over the first quarter. Expectations for handsets are down just a little, but other end markets are actually looking better. The data storage market, for example, expectations have improved there. The automotive electronics market expectation has increased. Wireless infrastructure market growth expectation has increased. So modest changes, I would say, but nothing dramatic and nothing that would change our full-year outlook other than what we've sort of realized in the first quarter and expect in the second quarter.

speaker
Angel Castillo

Great. Thanks. And then would you be able to parse out price versus volume embedded in that organic growth number for each segment?

speaker
Martin Franklin

For each segment, wow. So we haven't disclosed that in the past. I would say that in the first half, we're obviously seeing volume down, price improvement year over year. And in the second half, we expect to retain the benefit of the price and see volumes improve pretty dramatically because the second half of 2022 is very soft.

speaker
Angel Castillo

Great. Thanks for the comment.

speaker
Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Steve Byrne with Bank of America. Your line is open.

speaker
Steve Byrne

Hi. Steve Byrne. My first question is, which of the three electronics businesses are seeing signs of higher customer operating rates? And could you also describe the operating rates by region for the industrial business?

speaker
Ben

Sure.

speaker
Martin Franklin

You know, the assembly business was down much less than the higher end circuitry and semiconductor businesses in the first quarter. And so you're seeing, you know, greater volume stability in that business. And we would expect that to continue into the second quarter. And the ramp that we're anticipating in the second half will benefit the circuitry and semiconductor businesses disproportionately. Within the industrial specialty segment, you know, the offshore business has been a real bright spot for us where drilling activity has ramped significantly and we're seeing meaningful organic growth in that business, which we expect to persist through the year. In the industrial solutions vertical of the INS segment, we're seeing a much stronger performance in the West relative to Asia. The Asia business was down materially in the first quarter, whereas Europe and North America have been quite resilient.

speaker
Steve Byrne

Thanks. Additionally, do you have any potential new growth drivers this year from your strategy and development initiatives you'd like to share?

speaker
Martin Franklin

Yeah, look, we've been driving a thorough, detailed strategy development and implementation program here for a couple years, and we're seeing real traction at the customer level. in interesting new market adjacencies with new technologies. That customer traction is great. It's hard to see that come through the P&L in a weak demand environment like the one we're in, but it's what gives us conviction that we can outperform our markets as they ramp. And, you know, we are entering, you know, deeper profit pools with faster growth rates, and we have a lot of confidence that we're going to be successful there.

speaker
Ben

Got it. Thank you.

speaker
Operator

Your next question comes from the line of John Tanwantang with CJS Securities. Your line is open.

speaker
John Tanwantang

Hi, good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. Ben, are you explicitly thinking of a broader recession or maybe a soft landing in your forecasting, you know, either late this year or entering 24? And, you know, within those scenarios, do you think that actually impacts your end markets to get arguably already at trough levels?

speaker
Martin Franklin

Yeah, thanks for the question, John. The mobile market is off, you know, 20%, as I said, year over year in the first quarter. It was down in the double digits in the full year of 2022. You know, the automotive market, while recovering, is still very far from peak production rates. And the tone from industry participants and the OEMs in our markets is for a ramp in the second half. fully aware of the, you know, potential risks in the global economy entering the second half. And so, certainly we're subject to broader macro trends. We have been over the past 18 months, but that doesn't undermine our confidence in that second half ramp. As we said earlier, you know, that second half ramp is increasingly likely today relative to where we were a few months ago. And should it not materialize, we have levers at our disposal to continue to deliver on our commitments.

speaker
John Tanwantang

Okay, great. I don't know if you commented on this earlier, but how should we be thinking of EPS at the low end of the EBITDA range, given the increased expense from the updated swaps? And then are there any other put and takes we should be thinking about, just given, you know, whatever you can do on the capital allocation side?

speaker
Martin Franklin

Yeah. adjusted our EPS guide if you compare our slide today to the initial slide and our Q4 earnings down to reflect the lower range. There is about two pennies of capital allocation to get to that 140 in our guide.

speaker
Ben

Got it. Thank you.

speaker
Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Chris Capps with Loop Capital Market. Your line is open.

speaker
Chris Capps

Yeah, good morning. I had a question tied to the juxtaposition of the intriguing secular growth drivers of your end markets versus the cyclical downdraft that's being witnessed in units for so many electronic devices currently. And so as you were coming through the pandemic, and even maybe as recently as last year, there was a strong cadence of quotation activity for new PCB lines. You guys were winning a disproportionate number of those lines, particularly for the advanced or more complex devices. So I'm wondering, how should we think about those wins now? Have those lines come on, helping buttress your demand trends versus the broader market, and they're just being run at low utilization rates? Or has that capacity been completely deferred or postponed given this macro backdrop? And so how should we think about the latent demand there for your business?

speaker
Martin Franklin

Yeah, that's a great question, Chris. Last year and the year before, we were winning more business than we had in prior years, and that actually continues into the first quarter of 2023. There were delays in some of those lines coming on because of supply chain issues and part shortages, and some of those lines were delayed because of demand issues. But we haven't seen significant capacity come out of the supply chain and the printed circuit board market. And as has been well reported, semiconductor fabs are running at lower utilization, but you're not seeing capacity come out of that industry either. So as things ramp, we should see the benefit of those new wins. We should see utilization rates increase. Some of those new lines come into operation and strong pull through and flow through of earnings for our businesses. Again, that's what gives us you know, conviction and confidence that we can outperform our end markets and benefit disproportionately from the recovery in our markets.

speaker
Chris Capps

Got it. That's helpful. And then, so our TMT team at Loop Capital, based on some proprietary analysis, pretty, you know, some specific reasons for optimism around the Apple i15 variant specifically. And just curious how you're thinking about that in terms of your enthusiasm and visibility you may have in terms of content per unit or the timing of ramp expectations. How important a piece of your narrative about the second half ramp narrative is that one particular variant? Appreciate it. Thank you.

speaker
Martin Franklin

Yeah. Yeah, no, thanks, Chris. Without speaking to any specific OEMs, you know, our business does skew towards the non-local Chinese smartphone OEMs. And so, you know, when we think about the ramp in smartphone production, you know, those are the folks that we would be more levered to. We do have more content per unit on each incrementally. more sophisticated device, which, you know, should drive outperformance relative to unit growth. And history would suggest that, you know, after a less than stellar platform launch, you see a much stronger one in the following year, right? We've seen that over the past several years. And so all those things put together, again, build conviction and confidence that we'll see a strong ramp in the back half here.

speaker
Ben

Thanks for the call.

speaker
Operator

As a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please put star 1 on your telephone keypad now. Your next question comes from the line of David Silver with CL King. Your line is open.

speaker
David Silver

Yeah. Hi. Good morning. Thank you. I had a question maybe focused on your outlook for the automotive sector in particular. So that's an end market that touches on both segments and a number of product lines. And to quote the eloquent words of one of my predecessors here, you know, there's secular growth issues juxtaposed with some cyclical variability but um a couple of things but if you could just uh give us your sense of how you know your businesses are progressing you know as the auto industry goes through its transition to greater ev penetration and whether you know you think that the content gains or the contract wins that you envisioned are are kind of materializing you know on schedule And then more broadly, what kind of improvement or trend do you have in the second half of 2023 versus what you're experiencing in the first half? Thank you.

speaker
Martin Franklin

Thanks for the question. The automotive market is a key market for us. It's been one that's been soft for an extended period of time. I'm starting to see it recover here. And then there is the secular trend of electric vehicles. So it's a pretty compound question. So for starters, the automotive market should be a modest growth driver for us in 2023 over the course of the full year. Over time, it should be a market that we can outperform units by a reasonably wide margin because of content gains and because of the shift to electric vehicles where we have more value. We've talked a lot about our you know, exceptional offering into power electronics markets, and that's been a bright spot across the portfolio in the first quarter where we're growing really nicely, supporting high-end electric vehicles where production rates continue to grow. But even in some of what you could call our more legacy businesses, you know, like our industrial solutions business, there are more fasteners in electric vehicles than there are in an internal combustion engine class. And so, you know, we see this transition to EV as supporting our broader portfolio. Obviously, there's more electronics, there's more power electronics, and there's even opportunities in the industrial solutions business for growth as we see that transition progress. It's something we're very excited about.

speaker
David Silver

Okay, great. I had a question maybe about your CapEx budget. So the $70 million that was highlighted in your slide deck, a little bit higher than where it's been the last couple of years. Could you maybe highlight where the discretionary portion of that CapEx, where the incremental spending or discretionary amounts are being directed? Thank you.

speaker
Martin Franklin

David, this is Kerry. Thanks for the question. So I think I'll start with the last point around discretionary versus, I guess I would call, maintenance. So I think the most important thing to note is that the maintenance CapEx spend in this business really unchanged over the last couple of years. You know, call it $10-$15 million annually. This $70 million that we got to this year, you know, we got into something higher than our run rate last year as well, our historical run rate last year as well. I would expect that after this year we're back, you know, well under 2% of sales, call it $50 million plus or minus. The things we're doing this year are making capex investments to support those strategic initiatives that Ben had talked about a few questions ago. So, we're making an investment in China to support power electronics. We're making an investment in India and a few other markets where we're seeing long-term demand from customers to be present, both for production and for research and application labs. So, again, I expect this to come back down. closer to college 50, assuming we can spend everything this year. And one of the challenges has been actually getting projects done because of availability of materials. That's starting to improve, but we're not through that yet.

speaker
David Silver

That's great. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

speaker
Operator

There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call back to Ben Glicklich for closing remarks.

speaker
Martin Franklin

Thanks very much. Thank you for joining. We look forward to seeing you in the coming weeks and months. Have a good day.

speaker
Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

Disclaimer

This conference call transcript was computer generated and almost certianly contains errors. This transcript is provided for information purposes only.EarningsCall, LLC makes no representation about the accuracy of the aforementioned transcript, and you are cautioned not to place undue reliance on the information provided by the transcript.

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