Fiverr International Ltd.

good day and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Fiverr Q4 earnings conference call. At this time all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation there'll be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session you'll need to press star 1 and 1 on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising your hand is raised. To withdraw your question please press star 1 and 1 again. Please be advised today's conference is being recorded. I'd now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Jinjin Chen. Please go ahead.

Thank you, operator, and good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us on Fiverr's earnings conference call for the fourth quarter that ended December 31st, 2024. Joining me on the call today are Miha Kaufman, founder and CEO, and Ofer Katz, president and CFO. Before we start, I'd like to remind you that during this call, we may make forward-looking statements, and that these statements are based on our current expectations and assumptions as of today, and Fiverr assumes no obligation to update or revise them. A discussion of some of the important risk factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from any forward-looking statements can be found under the Risk Factors section in Fiverr's most recent Form 20F and other filings with the SEC. During this call, we'll be referring to some key performance metrics and non-GAAP financial measures, including adjusted EBITDA, adjusted EBITDA margin, and free cash flow. Further explanation and a reconciliation of each of the non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures is provided in the earnings release we issued today in our shareholder letter, each of which is available on our website at investors.fiverr.com. And now I'll turn the call over to Miha.

Thank you, Jinjin. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us. As we close another year, I've honestly never been more excited by what we've achieved and how it's positioning us for 2025. We delivered incredible execution throughout 2024, capped off by an outstanding Q4 with 13% revenue growth and a 20% adjusted EBITDA margin. This puts us firmly in the elite group of companies hitting the rule of 30, no small feat, especially at a time when our entire industry is facing macro headwinds. We executed with discipline, just as we said we would, and made steady progress towards our three-year targets. We maintain a high velocity of innovation and continue to solidify our position as a leader in the freelancer economy. Our strategy is straightforward. On the one hand, pursuing quality of revenue and upmarket opportunities in the market-based segment. On the other hand, expanding our offerings and diversifying revenue in the services segment. This has clearly paid off, allowing us to drive double-digit growth under macro headwinds. All of this momentum provides us with a very strong setup for 2025, where we believe we can continue to deliver rule of 30. At the center of our success is our freelancer community. For the past 15 years, Fiverr has always stayed true to our mission of empowering talent around the world to grow and succeed. We grow only when they grow and we succeed only if they succeed. We pride ourselves on being the most talent-focused freelancing platform with the biggest and most robust global community. To give you some idea of the scale of things, in 2024 alone, we hosted about 100 community events in every corner of the world with an aggregated of over 100,000 registrations into these events. Our public forum actively facilitates over 10,000 discussions with nearly 1 million interactions among our community members. Hundreds of thousands of freelancers see Fiverr as the go-to platform to build and grow their careers. It is through this scale and intimacy with our community that we know it hasn't been the easiest time for freelancers and creators. The high interest rates and inflation are putting pressure on their day-to-day life, and the rapid advancement of artificial intelligence feels like barbarians at the gate. threatening to exploit their creative assets and creative rights. It is under those premises that we announced two groundbreaking initiatives to demonstrate our continued commitment to our talent community. First is the launch of Fiverr Go. Fiverr Go is an open platform for personalized AI tools that include the personalized AI assistant and the AI creation model. Different from other AI platforms that often exploit human creativity without proper attribution or compensation, Fiverr Go is uniquely designed to reshape this power dynamic by giving creators full control over their creative process and rights. It also enables freelancers to build personalized AI models without the need to collect training data sets or understand AI engineering thanks to Fiverr's unparalleled foundation of over 6.5 billion interactions and nearly 150 million transactions on the market base. And most importantly, it allows freelancers to become a one-person production house, making more money while focusing on the things that matter. By giving freelancers control over configuration, pricing, and creative rights and leveling the playing field of implementing AI technology, Fiverr Go ensures that creators remain at the center of the creative economy. It decisively turned the power dynamic between humans and AI towards the human side. It's a refreshing and unique approach to Gen AI, just like how our service as a product model provides a unique mechanism that fundamentally changed the dynamics of freelancing 15 years ago. For customers, Fiverr Go is also fundamentally different from other AI platforms. It is gen AI with human accountability. AI results often feel unreliable, generic, and very hard to edit. What is good enough for a simple question and answer on charge APT does not cut it for business mission critical tasks. In fact, Many customers come to Fiverr today with AI generated content because they miss the confidence that comes from another human eye and talent helping them perfect the results for their needs. Fiverr Go eliminates all of this friction and frustration. Every delivery on Fiverr Go is backed by the full faith of the creator behind it with an included revision as the freelancer defines. This means that the quality and service you get from Fiverr Go is no different from a direct order from the freelancers themselves, except for a faster, easier, and more delightful experience. The personalized AI assistant on Fiverr Go can communicate with potential clients when the freelancer is away or busy, handle routine tasks, and provide actionable business insights, effectively becoming the creator's business partner. It often feels smarter than an average human assistant because it's equipped with all the history of how the freelancer works, as well as knowledge of trends and best practices on the Fiverr marketplace. And we didn't stop there. To take the future of work to the next level, we've also announced an open developer platform on Fiverr Go to allow AI specialists and model developers to build generative AI applications across any discipline. We provide them with an ecosystem to collaborate with domain experts on Fiverr and the ability to leverage Fiverr's massive data assets so that these applications can solve real world problems. And most important of all, Fiverr provides them an avenue to generate revenue from those applications through our marketplace. We are envisioning a very exciting future of work here as Fiverr Go can turn any individual into a powerhouse and supercharge their earnings potential. The second initiative we announced along with Fiverr Go is a brand new freelancer equity program, an industry first initiative designed to give top performing freelancers equity shares of Fiverr. We have been wanting to do this for a while and we are extremely happy to finally make it happen. Just as Fiverr Go empowers freelancers to scale like never before, The Freelancer Equity Program ensures that our freelancer community does not just help us shape the future of work, they own a piece of it. I'm very excited about these bold moves. As freelancers increasingly become the backbone of our economy, and as AI technology promises transformative shifts to the way people work, I firmly believe that Fiverr is uniquely positioned to lead the innovation and drive the industry forward. With the depth and breadth of data we have, the expansive scale of categories, buyers and sellers we cover, and the deep technological expertise we have built over the years, we can empower a robust ecosystem of humans and AI that deliver beautiful results for customers while supercharging freelancers' earning power. Finally, I would like to take this opportunity to thank our incredible team for building what very few teams in the world can build with passion, velocity, and determination. All of this could not have happened without this world-class team. With that, I'll turn the call over to Ofer.

Thank you, Michael, and good morning, everyone. I'm pleased to report an exceptional quarter with both top and bottom line exceeding expectations. Revenue for the fourth quarter was 103.7 million, up 13% year-over-year, representing an acceleration from 8% year-over-year growth in Q3. Adjusted EBITDA for Q4 was 20.7 million, representing an adjusted EBITDA margin of 20%, an improvement of 240 basis points from a year earlier. While we have yet to see meaningful improvements, on the macro front in terms of SMB sentiment of freelancer hiring demand, we are able to deliver growth catalysts through strong execution and expansion of value-added products. At the same time, we continue to optimize the quality of revenue for the marketplace, expanding our penetration into larger buyer and more complex projects with Fiverr Pro and dynamic matching. All in all, I'm very happy with how we delivered strong results in Q4 and throughout 2024, and I believe we are kicking off 2025 with a solid financial position and strong business momentum. In order to give more clarity on different parts of our business starting this quarter, we will provide you with a quarterly and annual revenue breakdown between marketplace revenue and services revenue. Marketplace revenue represents the transaction commission paid by buyer and seller based on order completed on our marketplace. We generate services revenue from subscription products such as SellerPlus and AutoDS, advertising services primarily via Fiverr Ad, and other services such as financial or learning tools, all of which are optional value-added services to our customers. For the full year 2024, marketplace revenue was $303.1 million, driven by 3.6 million annual active buyers, $302 annual spent per buyer, and 27.6% marketplace takeover. While the overall active buyers are not growing due to macro headwinds, it is worth noting that buyers with annual spend of over $10,000 continue to show resilient growth. We are also seeing larger and more complex projects show robust growth with GMV from a project of over $500 growing 8% year-over-year in 2024 compared to 2023. Going into 2025, given that marketplace revenue is largely tied to GMV volume, we have yet to see signs of macro improvement. We expect this growth of this revenue segment will continue to be muted. That said, we believe macro serves as a growth catalyst for this revenue segment down the road. Given that macro rebound is a matter of when, not if, when it does rebound, we expect our marketplace will be one of the first areas to experience the uplift. Services revenue was 88.4 million. representing year-over-year growth of 62%, driven by continued trend in Fiverr Ads, SellerPlus, and AutoDS. Services revenue represents 23% of our total revenue in 2024, up from 15% in 2023. As we continue to expand the adoption of these services, and as we launch new monetization products, such as Fiverr Go, Fiverr Pro subscriptions, and SellerTeam accounts, We believe there is a lot of growth runway for services revenue ahead of us. For 2025, we expect services revenue to continue growing at a healthy double digit rate with contribution to total revenue reaching over 30%. Now onto guidance. For the full year of 2025, we expect revenue to be in the range of 422 to 438 million representing year-over-year growth of 8 to 12%. Adjusted EBITDA is expected to be in the range of 82 to 90 million, representing an adjusted EBITDA margin of 20% at the midpoint. For the first quarter of 2025, revenue is expected to be 103.5 to 108.5 million, representing year-over-year growth of 11 to 16%. Adjusted EBITDA is expected to be 18 to 20 million, representing an adjusted EBITDA margin of 18% at the midpoint. We believe revenue growth will be higher in the first half of the year compared to the second half due to the lapping of Fiverr ad extension, the launch of the Kickstart program, and the inclusion of AutoDS in the second half of last year. We believe adjusted EBITDA margin and margin improvement will be lower in the first half of 2025 compared to the second half as we accelerate the investment and development pace of Fiverr Go. Overall, I believe we are firmly on track to achieve the three-year target we set last year for both adjusted EBITDA margin and free cash flow. To close, I'm very excited to kick off 2025. I believe it's going to be another strong year of growth and innovation. With that, we'll now turn the call over to the operator for questions.

Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, you'll need to press star one and one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star one and one again. Thank you. We'll now take the first question. This is from the line of Eric Sheridan from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Thanks so much for taking the questions. Maybe two if I could. In terms of the new initiatives in Fiverr Go, really interesting stuff in terms of the presentation yesterday. How should we think about those types of tools and the platform evolution helping conversion over the medium to long term, possibly resulting in better top-of-the-funnel dynamics from a growth perspective and then also conversion as well. And then in terms of what you laid out yesterday during the presentation, how much of it could put pressure on margins in 2025 in terms of incremental investments to sort of accomplish those goals around Fiverr Go or how much of that on the investment side is more behind you than ahead of you? Thank you so much.

Hey, Eric. Good morning. Answer the question.

So for Fiverr Go, Fiverr Go is actually a tool for conversion. That's the entire idea. Because we know that customers these days expect instant responses and instant results. And as a result of that, we designed those two tools. The AI personal assistant, which is able to answer customer questions immediately even if the freelancer is away or busy we know that the first three minutes after a customer writes to a freelancer are the most crucial time for conversion and this is why we designed this tool and this tool is essentially encapsulating the entire knowledge of the freelancer and basing itself on it being able to address any possible question and bring it to conversion and actually It's fresh from yesterday, but we have many thousands of assistants running on the system, converting customers already, which is an amazing time. When we think about the creation model, the creation model allows customers to get the confidence that this is the freelancer, this is the style that they're looking for. Because now, instead of asking the freelancer for samples, waiting for it, causing the freelancer to essentially work for free, they can get those samples right away. Now the quality of these samples is just mind blowing. The level of accuracy that these samples produce are exact match with the style of the freelancer, which gives the customer the confidence that if they played and liked it, this is the type of freelancer that they should engage with. So essentially, Conversion was one of the most important factors when designing these tools.

And then, Eric, on the second part of the question, so obviously we have invested in this product in the last few months, and we'll continue to invest in the next few months. But having said that, I think the guidance, the speak for the improvement in EBITDA throughout the year, take into consideration those investments already.

Thank you.

Thank you. We'll now take our next question. This is from Ron Joseph from Citi. Please go ahead.

Great. Thanks for taking the questions. Just a quick follow-up on the Fiverr Go, Mihael. I understand the value to the conversion and the creation model, the conversion rate to the assistance and creation model. I wonder if you can talk to us more about category expansion. I know we're launching with around 60 categories today. Do you think this goes to all categories over time? That's question one. And then question two, just on the newer cohorts. I believe in the letter we talked about them being bigger on average spend per buyer in their first year. I want to understand what's driving this specifically. Is this dynamic matching, which I think is pretty impressive. And then any insights on year two for these newer cohorts as they are higher value, higher spend cohorts. Thank you.

Thank you, Ron. Good morning. So S2 Fiber Go, I'll say the following. First, Gen AI still cannot handle every possible category. There's no technology for it. And some of these technologies we're developing ourselves. The fact that we're able to ship this basically from day one in 60 categories in my mind is mind blowing. Because you need to understand that the level of accuracy that these models need to have is something that no one has seen before. They need to stay super true to the actual creator, the actual freelancer, the talent. And one of the things that we're doing, and obviously we will continue to shift more and more categories, and we do this in very high velocity. But what we also introduce is the developer ecosystem. Now, what we're doing with this is actually we're opening up the Go platform to outside developers. Think about it as an app store in essence. So what we're doing is we're allowing them to develop models, API workflows, but then train those models on probably the biggest transactional data set in existence today that we hold. so that they can actually help us build models that freelancers can join can can enjoy from and we believe that by doing so and giving those developers incentives to do so because every time their app is going to be used for a transaction they're going to make money out of it this will allow us to accelerate the pace of the development of newer models for more categories Why 60 categories? Why not 600? Why not 6,000? This is exactly how we're thinking about this. So I think that the developer network can push us forward much faster, but not only for simple tasks, because we know that it is possible to create not just smart agents, but agentic AI, which can handle very complex types of transactions that sometimes require multiple sets of talent, which we all have on our platform. I don't think that the market still realizes the magnitude and the potential of this program. We're so excited about this, and we were able to pull this off in an incredible time, and we have high expectations from it.

And then we're on the second part of the question on the biggest center buyer and the drivers behind the scenes. So I think there are multiple elements, and we mentioned that several times before. As we go up market, I think the first one is quality. The release of Pro a while ago has matured, and we see more and more business contributing by this segment. And then we are able to attract better quality sellers. We launched agency products a few weeks ago that are speeding up. So generally speaking, in terms of quality, I think that the professional part of the business is growing. So that's one. Second, in terms of the product, So complex projects are being handled by the dynamic matching that we have released that demonstrate pretty well, you know, just as an indication, conversion rate is higher, it's 3 or 4x higher than the marketplace. Uh, and then lastly on the, on the acquisition projects. So, you know, growing up market means that we focus on high value buy-in and we indicate in the shareholders letter, uh, that, uh, uh, buyer that spend more than $10,000 on growing, um, by 2%, uh, last year, uh, which is one indication. The second is that high value buyer, those are. Those who spend more than $500 on market sales grew by 7.9% last year. So going up market and acquisition strategy is definitely one of the drivers. And then, you know, lastly, when we look into the category breakdown, we see more and more programming and tech contributing to the overall GMV, and programming and tech usually a bigger project, longer project. And I think, you know, products like the hourly that we have released a few months ago also contribute to this success. So, you know, just to summarize, it's a combination of quality projects, complex projects, acquisition strategy, and programming attack contributing more.

Thank you.

And I'll take the next question. This is from Jason Helsing from Oppenheimer. Please go ahead.

Thanks for taking the question. So kind of a bit more on Fiverr Go. So I guess is your conclusion that no matter how sophisticated AI gets, that it will struggle to bring unique or creative enough results for what effectively your buyers want. And that's why there still needs to be a human driving the creative decision, even if the AI tools make the human more efficient. And that the idea that your buyer is just people would, if the price is right, would rather pay somebody else to figure it out for them. I mean, obviously you've been thinking about this for a long time, right? We've been talking about AI for, I don't know, two years now almost. It's just like with all the iterations, is this ultimately the conclusion and kind of what's driving the five-or-go strategy?

Morning, Jason. So from our experience with AI, what we come to learn is that a lot of the creation process using AI is very random. and takes you through figuring figuring out what are the best tools because there's thousands of different options around ai and each one operates slightly differently and you need to master each one of them and you need to become a prompt engineer and then editing is extremely extremely hard plus you don't you don't get the the feedback that comes from working with a human being that can actually look at the creation from a human eye and give you a sense if this is actually capturing what you're trying to do. Because of these reasons and without compromising on the power of AI, because we love AI, we love the technology. We just think that there's a different way to design it. There's this entire debate about human versus AI. It's not the right question. The question is who's in the center. And we think that in order to continue motivating people to create, they should be rewarded for it. Right now, the way AI is designed, it's just sucking up whatever everyone writes, designs, without giving any reward. And our fear is that in the long run, this would demotivate people from creating, which for humanity is going to be very bad news. So there is a different way to design AI, and the way we've done it doesn't compromise to anything on its power. The opposite. It allows us or allows freelancers to design their own model in a way that rewards them but remains extremely accurate to their style, allowing customers to get the results they expect to get because they see the portfolio of their freelancer, like the style of writing or design or singing or narration, and they can get exactly this. So we think that that combination and that confidence that comes from the fact that the creator itself is always there. So if whatever AI churns out is 95%, great. There is a human being to help you cross the finish line. That is the premise. under which we developed FiberGo. And we think that this introduces a new approach and who knows, maybe other companies will follow this. And I think it's important because it will keep people in the center and continue motivating them to create.

Appreciate it, Collar. Thank you.

Thank you. We'll now take the next question. This is from the line of Doug Anmer from JP Morgan. Please go ahead.

Thanks, guys, for taking the question. One for Micha and one for Ofer. First, Micha, just on Fiverr Go, you talked about model creation and AI assistance really being the first pieces. Maybe you can talk more about just how you envision AI agents working in the Fiverr ecosystem over time. And then Ofer, just on the double-digit revenue growth at the midpoint of the 25 guide, does that suggest a return to marketplace growth? And more importantly, what are the factors you need to see there for that to happen? Thanks.

Morning, Doug. Thanks for the question. So when we think about AI agents, if you look at the AI personal assistant, the very basic functionality that it provides is really handling routine tasks for the freelancer, allowing the talent to actually have more time to create, sync, and recharge when needed. And this is done in a very sophisticated way because the assistant is rich with capabilities such as being able to convince the customers of the qualities of the freelancers by showcasing them during the conversation, their portfolio, schedule consulting meetings in real time within the conversation. And actually the assistant is aware of the presence of the freelancer, meaning is the freelancer online right now or not? and can invite the freelancer in real time if they think that the best scenario of the conversation is to hand it over to the freelancer. These are unique capabilities that we've developed that I don't know anyone who has done it before that will allow the assistant to work as a partner with the freelancer. But this is just the first step because as the assistant learns the freelancer better over time, it will start providing with business insights for the freelancer in order to grow the business. As an example, the assistant can do a research to figure out how to optimize the service page or the profile to be better positioned in search results. It might suggest to the freelancer to add certain keywords or description or portfolio in order to maximize their potential. In addition, as I've said, through the developer ecosystem, we think that we can create endless amount of different agents for Gen-AI so that we can actually reach this future of a Genetic AI where you have agents that can actually do some complex tasks for you in an automated manner. And obviously those capabilities are going to be also included in the AI personal assistant.

And then Doug, for the second part of the question about the growth in 2025. So I think as you probably noticed, we have break the revenue into two different segments, the marketplace and the services. And I think while the marketplace is tied up with macro and GMV, what we haven't seen yet, any sign or strong sign of improvement, the services revenue line is where we are innovating and building many products to drive sustainable growth, as you've seen last year. So, you know, in terms of 2024, 23% of the revenue is driven by services, and we anticipate that in 2025, this portion will grow all the way to 30. We believe that this two line revenue approach works well and when the macro rebound i will see the marketplace go back to growth on top of the growth in in the service engine in terms of 2025 so the guidance applies for double digit revenue growth at the midpoint and it's based on A flat, small decline in GMV, or marketplace revenue, where we think that the center buyer is going to grow and compensate on active buyer decline throughout the year. While the revenue part of the business is going to grow rapidly as we release more products, and as we see the existing product contributing more to the top line.

Great. Thank you both.

Thank you. We'll take our next question. This is from Bernie McTernan from Niedermann Company. Please go ahead.

Great. Thanks for taking the questions. Michal, you mentioned to an earlier question incentivizing developers in Fiverr Go. Would your take rate be different in Fiverr Go? Just trying to get a sense if you're paying the developer or maybe they're paying you to be on the platform. And then on investments this year, just want to see if it's mostly sales and marketing we should be expecting or something else. And then lastly, just as you think about the 25 guide, was there any impact of FX contemplated in the guide? Thank you.

Morning, Bernie. For now, the take rates remain the same for Go. And as we roll it out and as we see usage, we will figure out what to do or what's the right thing to do. For now, we treat it as a normal transaction with the same take rate. There are components where the technology itself is actually paid for, meaning that it's an additional subscription line that comes to us from providing these tools, these AI tools to our community. But once we have more history with it, we're going to be able to know what's the best strategy around it. For now, I think that it incentivizes sellers to to have those models up. And I think that the contribution to their conversion is going to be noticeable, which will make the entire marketplace more efficient. And because it gives instant results and evolve AI, I think that this will also allow us to influence top of funnel even more, which is one of the areas where we'll focus on.

And in terms of the investment, and the forest. So there is no material change in the way we invest throughout the year. I think there is some heavy lifting at the beginning of the year on the release of GO, as you probably have seen, a very exciting product that we have released yesterday. I think we will continue to invest in citizen marketing in the in the most and best efficient as we have done before with a strong TRI. And lastly, on the forex exchange, as the prices on Fiverr are based on US dollar, there is no impact on the top line in terms of forex. And we are well hedged in terms of the OPEX. to cover for any material impact on the .

Great. Thank you. Appreciate the call.

Thank you. We'll now take the next question. This is from Marvin Fong from BTIG. Please go ahead.

Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions and congratulations on the launch. It's a pretty exciting product. I'd actually like to drill down a little bit on what Offer was saying. It seems like if services is going to be 30% of your revenue, then you're looking for very strong growth, something, by my math, around 45% next year. I was just curious, you know, how much of that should we, or could you break down how you think about the contribution from your value-added services for fiscal 25 between ad products and, in particular, How much is the subscription revenue from Fiverr Go impacting that outlook? And then just separately on the marketplace take rate, should we view that as being a stable in fiscal 2025? Are there any levers that you can pull to change that? Thanks a lot.

So on the second part of the question, yes, there are leverage we can pull, but the guidance to not assume any change in the marketplace. In terms of the services revenue, I think we haven't broke it beyond the services itself. There are multiple products that contribute to this line item, all the way from Seller Plus, which is the subscription to promoted gigs, which is the ad advertising and the marketplace. We have a Kickstarter that goes to subscription. We have the AutoDS that applies for subscription as well. And we have the Go that we just launched that we have some subscription as well. So this is kind of the breakdown between subscription and ad services that apply for the 30% revenue.

Got it. Thanks a lot, Alfred.

Thank you. We'll take our next question. This is from Andrew Boone from Citizens. Please go ahead.

Thanks so much for taking my questions. I wanted to ask on the services side, there's certain heuristics that investors use in terms of the amount of ceiling for the percentage of advertising as a percentage of GMT. Can you guys talk about that? Like, how do we think about advertising and whether there's a potential peak for what you guys are able to monetize the platform via advertising as? And then secondly, as we think about Fiverr Go and AI creating more of the actual work, can you help us understand kind of theoretically, how do you think about that as a deflationary aspect as technology is doing more of the work versus the freelancer? How do we think about that? And then clearly you're starting to monetize that product. As Fiverr Go continues to improve, how do we think about Fiverr's ability to take more of that aspect as your own software and AI models are helping freelancers do more? Thanks so much.

On the first part of the question, the percentage of advertising, the room to expand was definitely a lot of runway ahead of us. This product is just evolving over time. There's a lot of real estate that we haven't monetized and are doing improvement, which are undertaking. So feel very confident and expect this product to expand.

And on the question on Go, first of all, it's very early to tell, but the idea of Fiverr Go is really that uh the talent that actually creates their model is basing this model on their entire world of creating they need to continue creating to fine-tune this model and create new models there is no incentive for them to give it for a very cheap price plus it is always connected with human work that is included in the order where they define the price and the scope of editing that they add to anything that is generated. So while it remains to be seen how they're going to price it, what we think should happen is that because their work is involvement and their investment in the model is included, that this would not put a meaningful pressure on pricing.

Thank you.

Thank you. We'll now take our next question. This is from Josh Chan from UBS. Please go ahead.

Hi, Michaela. Thanks for taking my question. I guess my first question is on the lag between SMB and the results of Fiverr. I guess as you are aware, some of the SMB cinnamon has improved somewhat in the recent months. And so I'm just wondering your thoughts about how that ultimately translates into Fiverr from a timing perspective. And then my second question is on services revenue. Is there any notable seasonality within services? I'm not sure if Otto Diaz has a major Q4 waiting, but just some color on how services kind of wait through the year would be helpful. Thank you.

I think we have noted Earlier, we haven't identified or seen any signs that suggest a trend. You know, there are some fluctuations throughout the week, but I think it's too early for us to call for a trend of improvement in the S&B sentiment. And then on the seasonality, so the answer is pretty flat or straight line behavior over the year. There's no significant seasonality that we can note.

Great. Thank you, Colin.

Thank you. We'll now take our last question today. And this is from Rohit Kulkarni from Roth. Please go ahead.

Hey, thanks for taking my questions. A couple of In this upmarket demand, clearly strategy is working. Perhaps any more color you can provide on what are the categories of products and projects that you're getting that are unlocking new verticals for you? And over the near term, any learnings from the last 18 months that you can help kind of accelerate some of the growth that you're seeing in upmarket demand? And second would be just on this freelancer equity program. Any sounds very interesting and to incentivize freelancers, but perhaps talk about the genesis behind it. Why? Why now? and what do you hope to achieve from that? Thanks.

On the first part, as I mentioned earlier, I think that the programming tech is getting a bigger piece of the cake. And I think this is driven by acquisition quality, but also product-like dynamic matching, which is doing really well, as I mentioned earlier on the call.

As to the question on the freelancer equity program, we're very excited about this program, and we've been wanting to do this for a while. This program is designed for top performers on the platform. In our mind, those who are extremely loyal and are building meaningful businesses with us and helping us shape the future of work should have the option to own a piece of it. Obviously, we're going to have the details of the plan announced in our F3 filing soon. It's an industry first as a public company. And we're very excited about this, and we know that our freelancers are extremely excited about it.

Thank you. And there are no further questions, so I will now hand back to the speakers for any closing comments.

Thank you everyone for joining the call today and thank you Sarah for moderating the call. I wish all of you a great day and hope to see you soon.

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating and you may now disconnect.