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spk00: The conference will begin shortly. To raise your hand during Q&A, you can dial star 1 1. Your hand during Q&A. You can dial star 1-1.
spk08: Good morning and welcome to Chart Industries, Inc. 2022 Second Quarter Results Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent background noise. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer session. The company's release and supplemental presentation was issued earlier this morning and it can be accessed by visiting Chart's website at www.chartindustries.com. A brief play of today's broadcast will be available following the conclusion of the call. It can also be accessed through the investor relations section of the company's website. Before we begin, the company would like to remind you that statements made during this call that are not historical, in fact, are forward-looking statements. Please refer to the information regarding forward-looking statement and risk factors included in the company's earnings release and latest filings with the SEC. the company undertakes no obligation to update publicly or revise any forward-looking statement. I would now like to turn the conference over to Jill Ivanko, Chart Industries CEO.
spk01: Thanks, Catherine, and thanks, everybody, for joining us today for our second quarter 2022 earnings call. As usual, we will reference the supplemental deck that was included with the press release and can be found on our website under the investor relations section. With me today is our CFO, Joe Brinkman. Let's start on slide three, where we are extraordinarily pleased to share our second quarter, 2022, all-time records and orders, a whopping $887 million of them, backlog and sales, which you can see is broad-based, including records for all in hydrogen and water treatment. And not only do we post our third consecutive record order quarter, which is five record quarters out of the last six. This quarter was also our seventh consecutive quarter of record backlog of $1.95 billion. Additionally, we are starting to see the strong backlog and price cost actions take hold through the P&L, with our second quarter also being our all-time record reported gross margin dollars and reported operating income dollars. We continue to see penetration of our full solutions from process technology through to cryogenic equipment. in particular in what we refer to as the nexus of clean, clean power, clean water, clean food, and clean industrials. This reflects the current focus on energy security, access, resiliency, which is complementing, not offsetting, energy transition, or said differently, the focus on sustainable solutions. Rather, these two are actually both needed, and we're differentiated in offering that. One of the ways we look at our differentiation is through our first-of-a-kind orders or as we call them internally, our folking orders. In the quarter, we booked 23 first of a kind, bringing year-to-date folks to 51, as well as 85 orders with new customers this quarter, bringing year-to-date to 169 new customer orders. Both the first of a kind and new customer metrics are on track to meet or exceed 2021, demonstrating that there is considerable further potential growth in our addressable market globally. To give you a sense of the first-of-a-kind and new customers that we're working with, here are a few examples of ones booked in Q2. An arsenic water treatment system for Love's Travel Stop, our first Earthly Labs carbon capture system for a brewery in Turks and Caicos, an order for Chart's heaviest on-site cryogenic tanks to date from a US space exploration company, and a seed study for supply of LNG bunkering systems for LNG ferries in the Greek islands. We continued our trend of more consistent and frequent orders of over $1 million each, with 61 of them booked in the second quarter, making this our fourth consecutive quarter with over 60 such individual orders. And finally, our partnerships and collaborations through memorandums of understandings and long-term agreements continue to grow. In Q2, we executed eight MOUs and agreements, including two for LNG, three for carbon capture, two for hydrogen, and one for air-cooled heat exchanger master supply. One of the MOUs in carbon capture is with Wolf Carbon Solutions US LLC, an affiliate of Wolf Midstream. Wolf and its affiliate are committed to the development of world-scale CO2 carbon capture, transportation, and sequestration infrastructure. Wolf Midstream owns and operates the Alberta Carbon Trunk Line, which has infrastructure that includes CO2 conditioning and compression, and one of the world's largest capacity CO2 pipelines, where captured CO2 is currently being used for enhanced oil recovery with future access to the Wolf midstream sequestration hub currently under development. Through our cooperation agreement, we will work together using our SES cryogenic carbon capture technology at mutually agreed upon host sites located along Wolf Mount Simon hub carbon pipeline system. Let's move to slide four, which shows the details of the larger orders in the first half of the year. Year to date, we've booked approximately $529 million of big LNG orders, including $300 million in the second quarter for our full notice to proceed on Chenier's Corpus Christi Stage 3 LNG export terminal. Total chart content on Chenier's Stage 3 project is over $350 million, and the entire amount is currently in backlog as of the end of the second quarter. There are a lot of things to like about Slide 4. Perhaps what I like most is that the mid-size orders, orders $15 to $40 million each, are across multiple applications. whether space exploration, trailers, utility LNG, floating LNG, or hydrogen. Now direct your attention to the far right column on the table of slide four. The message here is that we view all of this as providing high confidence in our multi-year momentum. In particular, because as you've heard me say numerous times before, quarters in our business are too short to measure any particular project, with multiple projects being multi-year. So realizing that financial modelers will want to know how this impacts the second half of 2022, we've included this far right column. Now for us, we don't think of it as a calendar year or that the company stops at December 31st, as many of these projects do cut across more than one calendar. So this is important when it comes to your second half 2022 financial modeling. While we will get some big LNG revenue recognition in the year, all the projects shown in row six through 11 have the majority of the revenue recognized in 2023 and beyond. Again, setting us up for a very high level of confidence in our three-year outlook that was previously disclosed. But this is also meant as a key piece of information when looking at what is modeled into 2022. And note that orders on rows 9 through 11 do not have any anticipated 2022 revenue associated with them. So having five of our past six quarters set new records for orders has also resulted in an average order quarter, excluding big LNG, of over $445 million in the last six quarters. This compares to the average of $250 million per quarter from 2016 through 2020. So while we'll not hit $450 million or more every single quarter ahead of us, we certainly anticipate continuing to book each quarter at a significantly higher level than the five-year 2016 to 2020 average. So let's move to slide six, where one of the questions that we've been receiving is whether we're seeing a softening in demand due to a potential recession. So on slide six, you can see some of the order activity for the first few weeks of July. We continue to book orders for a variety of applications, 16 over $1 million each so far. Noteworthy to point out the rail car commitment for $6.5 million, and our second water treatment order for India this year for $5 million. We're also beginning to see more orders for storage-related equipment. Just this week, we booked a $1.5 million order for tanks for this application. For example, We're also very delighted to be supplying equipment that support carbon cures, end-to-end carbon removal and mineralization solutions, which are essential to achieving our joint goal of decarbonizing the concrete industry. We immediately saw carbon capture and storage inbound inquiry increases since Wednesday evening's press release about the U.S. Inflation Act. For example, in the first 18 hours after that release, we had six new leads come in, which is certainly more than normal in that period of time. Final point on this slide is that we currently have over 2,700 opportunities totaling over $8.5 billion that are in our commercial quotation pipeline. I reiterate my earlier comment. The message here is that we view all of this as significant multi-year momentum. Slide seven shows the second quarter financial summary. In addition to record orders, backlog, and sales, this was our all-time record reported gross margin and record reported operating income quarter. Reported operating income as a percent of sales of 7.3% was the highest in the past year, and one adjusted for one-time costs from deal integration, startup capacity, and restructuring was 9.9%, also the highest in the past year. Reported growth margin as a percent of sales for the second quarter of 2022 was 23.4%, and one adjusted for those costs mentioned was 25.3%. This growth margin as a percent of sales for the quarter reflects both our continued progress on pricing versus input costs, as well as the high shipment quarter of price-cost lag backlog in our cryotank solutions and heat transfer system segments. The CTS segment had the most long-term agreement price indexing timed into the second quarter 2022 from a backlog perspective, and we shipped more than was originally anticipated heading into the quarter. Or said differently, we shipped more in Q2, which was previously in our Q3 forecast thinking. So as mentioned in prior quarters, realizing the continued benefits of these price increases and cost control actions that we've taken sets up the second half of 2022 to continue to incrementally increase operating margin and gross margin, as well as both metrics as a percent of sales. And while not shown on this slide, an important metric is free cash flow. Second quarter 2022 free cash flow net of capital expenditures of $17 million was $18 million, and adjusted free cash flow was $37 million. We continue to expect our full year 2022 adjusted free cash flow to be in the range of $175 million to $225 million, even as we anticipate that we will strategically continue to hold higher than typical inventory throughout the year. While we move the two red, yellow, green challenges slides to the end of the appendix, they are updated in the deck for our current perspectives on each category. The following four slides, slides 8 through 11, demonstrate our margin improvement actions. First, more price increases had to be taken across the past five quarters than would have been in a typical environment. And we anticipate holding onto much of this pricing while giving the surcharge back to our customers when macro conditions abate for a period of time. Second, our higher margin businesses are also our fastest growing businesses, and therefore we anticipate a margin mixed benefit. Third, larger and more project work contributes to more consistency in our shops, as well as more standardization opportunities. And finally, our productivity and automation activities are a strong focus for us, and we have numerous additional opportunities for this ahead on our roadmap. So turning to slide eight, some of the leading commodities, which are drivers of our raw material costs, including nickel and aluminum in the United States, are either at or below pre-Russia-Ukraine conflict levels. We expect this trend to continue throughout the third quarter of 2022. We're also seeing capacity at the mills opening up which, along with new investments coming online, sets our expectations that the United States market will be in a much more stable position for the foreseeable future. The metal producers in the U.S. are also swiftly switching to producing new material using scrap, which reduces reliability on foreign partners and reduces the impact of unpredictable geopolitical events. And while Europe is not as stable as what I just described for the U.S., we do expect EU raw material numbers to stabilize as they have in the U.S. as consumption and demand reduces. With all that said, we continue to take proactive steps to continue to have multiple suppliers, both globally and regionally, as well as thoughtful safety stock when to do, as you have seen us do over the past five quarters. As many of you are aware, we've taken three types of pricing actions over those past five quarters, plus a surcharge. The three types of pricing are shown on the right-hand side of slide nine. In addition to maintaining our short bid validity timing on project quotations, We have implemented five separate base price increases over the past six quarters and had three surcharge increases since implementing in the third quarter of 2021. This is in addition to the quarterly or semiannual index based adjustments in our LTAs with specific industrial gas customers. The LTA bucket has by far been our longest to work through the lag of pricing costs in our backlog. And as I commented already today, we burned off a meaningful amount of that in the second quarter 2022. primarily reflected in the CTS gross margin. We view this as a positive setup to the second half anticipated margin improvement. And note that all pricing and surcharges remain in effect to date in the third quarter, and we expect them to throughout the quarter. I shared on the Q1 earnings call specific actions related to the delta between freight costs and our ability to pass that through to our customers. You can see on the left-hand graph on slide 10 that we are net neutral for the first time in what we believe is in our history, but certainly at a minimum the past few years. The right-hand graph on this slide shows the global container freight index for the past three years, demonstrating the dramatic increase from June of 2020 to present. Just to compare, this delta of what we could pass to our customers versus our own cost netted a negative impact to our P&L of $1.5 million per quarter last year. One of the areas that I'm most excited about is our organic automation and productivity activities that are underway, but also the ones on the horizon. I've shown six on slide 11, and that's six of the dozens of automation projects that are happening around the globe in our facilities. These six projects are all 2022 impact. Three of them are fully implemented as of the end of June, while the other three will be complete by year end. Combined, we expect they will contribute over $1.1 million of productivity savings on an annualized basis. As I mentioned on an earlier slide, reported operating income as a percent of sales of 7.3%, was the highest in the past year, and when adjusted for one-time costs, was 9.9%, also the highest in the past year, which you can see on slide 12. There is also a gross margin as a percent of sales trend slide included in the appendix for your reference. Worth pointing out is that we continue to see areas of the business impacted by unusual costs and inefficiencies due to the not yet tempering portion of the macro challenges that have been well documented. Examples of this include inefficiencies in direct costs from forced measures we're under, certain expedited costs from suppliers given long supply lead times, weather impacts to production, to name a few. We do not add these costs back to our adjusted profit or earnings per share, but we do quantify their impact, which for the second quarter was approximately $13 million. This gives you a sense that we would be at 13% off margin if these were no longer an impact. I want to pause here and thank our OneChart global team members who have been extremely agile in their response to our high demand coupled with the macro challenges that I just described. For example, 11 of our manufacturing locations had 100% on-time delivery in Q2. And as of June 30th, we achieved our lowest total recordable safety incident rate in our history at 0.57. So moving on here to slide 13, this is just a repeat of a prior ad-back slide and is included only as a reference for you. And then quickly turning to slide 14, this compares our second quarter to our first quarter 2022 ad-backs to earnings per share. I'm not going to take you through the detail, just message that this is consistent with what we have previously said and driven in part by year one acquisition integrations concluding and in part by our organic startup and capacity coming online, which will have multiple activity related to in the third quarter. In the second quarter, we completed the Oklahoma to Beasley, Texas air-cooled heat exchanger relocation and restructuring. We substantially completed the Shree City, India capacity expansion and completed the U.S. repair greenfield expansion. Based on timing of specific organic and integration activities, we expect the third quarter to be really busy as we bring projects related to capacity startup and new product lines in flight. Our reported earnings per share of 36 cents included negative net 22 cents from our mark-to-market adjustment, as well as one-time specific costs of 30 cents. Adjusted EPS of 88 cents reflects our continuing execution of price increases, cost controls, while also including that drag that I mentioned from the high shipment quarter of lagged backlog in CTS and HTS. Note that we did not add back the negative impact to sales or EPS this quarter from the foreign exchange rate changes, and we anticipate that these will continue to be variable throughout the second half. We estimate the second quarter impact from the foreign exchange rate changes to be approximately negative 12 million to sales and approximately negative 5 cents to EPS. Now turning to slide 16, Joe.
spk14: As our demand continues to be broad-based, we have four meaningful capacity expansions underway currently, a few of which we will discuss on the next few slides. Portions of the related capital expenditures are in our full-year CapEx outlook of approximately $55 to $60 million. Year-to-date through June 30th, our CapEx is $29.8 million. It is worth noting that these expansions all have backlog seeded to be first volumes when the capacity comes online. While some of the figures by project have shifted between years or amounts since our May 5th investor day CapEx outlook, overall across the next few years we continue to anticipate spending approximately $200 to $220 million on organic capital. Slide 17 shows the progress of our brazed aluminum heat exchanger line in our Tulsa, Oklahoma flex manufacturing facility. To date, all that remains on the original go-live date is our furnace being delivered next month. The core piece of equipment for our cores. Slide 18 shows our German industrial gas and hydrogen trailer main capacity expansion on existing property, which is underway with operations set to begin in mid to late 2023. We received our first order totaling more than $20 million, which will be produced in this expanded facility. On this side of the pond, slide 19 shows the site of our future supersized tank facility where we will manufacture large bulk storage tanks all the way up to 1500 cubic meters or 400,000 gallons. These jumbos are used in a variety of applications, ranging from space exploration to biogas as examples. And our $16 million order received for these jumbos in the second quarter will be produced and water shipped from this location. We have included slide 20 to further demonstrate the increasing demand for jumbo or supersized bulk tanks. These tanks are used across multiple industries, as you can see listed in the upper right-hand corner of the slide. The picture on this slide shows three more jumbo cryogenic tanks that were sent from our facility in the Czech Republic to Germany, home of a new 100,000 ton per day bio-LNG plant. Each tank stores one million liters of LNG, which is enough to fuel more than 1,000 heavy haulage trucks with cleaner burning biogas.
spk01: Slide 21 shows sales by segment and reported and adjusted operating income, while slide 22 shows the gross margin information. Reported gross margin as a percent of sales in the second quarter was sequentially up more than 170 basis points in three out of the four segments when compared to the first quarter of 2022. Additionally, both reported and adjusted operating income as a percent of sales sequentially increased in three of the four segments also, each increasing more than 270 basis points compared to the first quarter of 2022. With the additional backlog shift in the second quarter from CTS, we expect CTS margin to sequentially improve throughout the second half of the year. Our investments, as shown on slide 23, both organically and inorganically in our portfolio for the next are paying off in terms of commercial opportunities. In this week's news on the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022, which addresses the United States' potential adoption of solutions through strategic investments that allow us to decarbonize. These investments and technologies are needed for all fuel types, from hydrogen, nuclear, renewables, fossil fuels, and energy storage. To be produced and used in the cleanest way possible certainly will further support the continued traction we have already seen in the commercial adoption of our nexus of clean offerings. We're also seeing much greater interest from businesses across industries in the technologies and funds that we were first investors in, including some Vita factories gold hydrogen, which is a novel source of carbon neutral hydrogen produced from depleted oil reservoirs that are ready for plug-in abandonment, extending the life of the wells that would otherwise be a significant burden, but now producing hydrogen in place of hydrocarbons. Vita also has a synthetic biology process It has the potential to create a new way to produce sustainable fuel for aviation, in which both United Airlines and OxyGlo Carbon Ventures are investors. Another example of this is our anchor investment in the 5P Hydrogen Fund, which is now managed by and referred to as HI-24. Just last week, Airbus joined the fund as well, another potential user of cryogenic liquid hydrogen equipment for the future of aviation. This is just one example of how the focus in the private sector continues to be on ESG and more sustainable solutions. Another example is the agriculture and food and beverage industry, responsible for approximately a third of greenhouse gas emissions globally. The industry is working to bait these emissions, and our technologies can help customers address multiple ESG activities. One example of this is Citi Brewing. They're a customer that has purchased food and beverage equipment from us and now water treatment equipment in the first half of the year. Now we're discussing with them our Earthly Labs offering. So like many of our customers, they have several locations, which presents repetitive and multiple opportunities for us across the Nexus of Clean. These Nexus of Clean activities are primarily reflected in our specialty product segment. Slide 24 shows our continued growth in the segment, with the second quarter posting record orders and backlogs, even when taking into account the very low HLNG vehicle tank orders this year to date. Specialty also had plenty of broad-based demand, as you can see in the bullets on the right-hand side of the slide. What is also exciting in this segment is not only the more diversified customer base that we are continuing from more geographic areas, but also the various non-investment partnerships we've been able to put in place, including the eight that I referenced earlier. Our heat transfer system segment is seeing very strong LNG supply-side market demand and obviously increased activity in big LNG, with multiple projects taking and expecting final investment decision. We are also seeing increased activity in new trial plant builds, turnaround activity, expansion projects, and pet chem and ethylene markets, as well as strong activity in our air cooled heat exchanger business, which was one of the softest over the past few years. You can see the average order levels for air coolers on the last bullet on the right hand side of slide 25. In terms of margin, second quarter 2022 was our first reported operating income positive quarter for HTS since Q1 2021. So upward from here. Our second half, 2022 HTS segment margin is one of the most meaningful contributors to our anticipated second half sequential total chart margin improvement. This is driven by the projects already in backlog as well as anticipated additional orders that are coming in the third quarter. Slide 26 is a slide to demonstrate our expanding LNG addressable market. We've previously discussed our LNG addressable market in three ways. Big LNG, small scale, and utility LNG, which includes FLNG and regas opportunities, And third, LNG infrastructure such as ISO containers, fueling stations, and trailers. But from now on, we're going to speak to our LNG addressable market in four ways. These three plus retrofit refurbishment opportunities for which we are seeing increasing inquiries and activity. I'll come back to the retrofit and replacement shortly, but first let me point you to a few of the data points on slide 26. Rows four and nine are powerful when you look back to February of this year. We had no big LNG or small-scale or floating book yet in the year. Since then, we've booked $667 million of related orders, and that does not include LNG infrastructure or retrofits. Row two we feel is important to our continued expanded future growth. We commented about the potential for international big LNG projects potentially using IPSMR and moving to modular mid-scale from baseload stick-built facilities. This picked up momentum in the second quarter, and while I cannot comment on specific projects due to NDAs in place, We are very optimistic about IPSMR being selected for use in one or more of these projects in the coming year. We have these international opportunities for both land-based mid-scale modular as well as floating LNG using mid-scale modular. Additionally, we mentioned on last quarter's earnings call that Total Energies had approved our IPSMR process technology for use in their projects. We're pleased to share that this week another international operator has also qualified our IPSMR for use in their works. And a key takeaway is the increasing opportunity set in all of the categories shown on slide 25. So as you might imagine, over the past few months, we've certainly received numerous inbounds from the public and private sector on addressing energy security, access, and resiliency. Our numerous regas options are a key part, as shown on slide 25. Our most recently introduced regas offering is our modular, movable, and quick-to-deploy regas solution, which we call the Dagger, the drop-and-go regas. This, amongst our other regas equipment and technology, has increased in demand since the focus has heightened. We also appreciate that many of these customers are looking for us to be the maintenance provider. For example, ETAL Gas has deployed 26 LNG regas units, and we also are the 24-7 maintenance provider for these systems. We're currently quoting dozens of these opportunities for customers in Central Europe, in particular in Germany, where the alternatives to pipeline gas are being explored. Back to the LNG retrofit replacement and refurbishment. We've had numerous jobs completed or underway year to date 2022, including related to removal installation of fans and motors and numerous field service repairs. In the second quarter, we received the Southeastern Utility Customer Small Scale LNG order for $26 million, which is also a replacement and an expansion project. The other opportunities and aftermarket are shown on slide 28. This work is around the globe and includes opportunities in heavy hydrocarbon removal, nitrogen rejection units, vacuum-insulated pipe, and boil-off gas, just to name a few. Our second quarter 2022 acquisitions of Fronty and CSC, shown on slide 29, are very natural fits for our cryogenic expertise and focus on expanded, differentiated capabilities, as well as growth in our repair and service business. with what we were just talking about across the LNG spectrum, as well as with their specialized vacuum-insulated cold box and pressure vessel capabilities, is a particular strategic fit for hydrogen and helium applications, while CSC brings a strong service footprint in the Nordic region, with many overlapping customers to chart.
spk14: We saw an immediate synergy with CSC as we executed a full care service contract with a key customer for vehicle fueling stations in the EU. As you can see on slide 30, CSE adds to our growing service, repair, and field service footprint in Europe. Also in Europe, we signed another long-term service agreement for station maintenance. Additionally, LA Turbine, which is typically known for its specialty expanders contributing to our hydrogen and helium applications, yet they also have a strong field service business, which has been contributing to our growing RSL segment and was a core part of our second quarter 2022 RSL record sales. We also had record sales and aftermarket fans and parts repairs and services primarily for our CTS customers. And not to be forgotten in RSL is the leasing business, where we more than doubled the number of new leases signed this quarter as compared to Q2 of 2021. CTS is our segment that had the most challenges in terms of catching price up to cost, given this is the segment where we have our primary long-term agreements with index-based pricing mechanisms that have a lag. We were able to ship more of our lagging price-cost backlog in Q4 2022 earlier than originally anticipated, which provides confidence that we have turned the corner on CTS margins and expect them to sequentially improve in Q3 and Q4 2022. We also are seeing continued demand in the CTS segment, and our production teams are keeping up. For example, we have record production of tanks in our Sri City, India facility, as well as in our European facilities. If you flip to slide 32, you will see our broad ISO container offering, and this lines out with increasing demand in China for storage tanks. In July, we received a letter of intent for a $10 million ISO container order.
spk01: I'll wrap it up on slide 33 with our current 2022 full-year sales guidance in the range of $1.725 to $1.8 billion. Current associated adjusted non-diluted EPS guidance is in the range of $5.20 to $5.60 on a 35.86 million shares outstanding, increased from 35.83 million shares outstanding in our prior guide. We're also forecasting a 20% full-year tax rate compared to the prior guidance of 19%. Okay, here's the best part of this call. Wait for it. This is gonna be the best part of the call and the best part of the day. This is for our analyst community. You guys were right. It looks like our analysts were already right in their modeling, and so we're falling in line to our current guide, just reiterated. So there's no considerations and assumptions in our guidance. I'm not going to step through them. They're in our press release, and they're also on the slide in the deck. So you can read through the considerations and the assumptions that we have in our latest guide. and we feel that we've taken into account the discussion of the not yet improving pieces and parts that we've laid out today. So to conclude this slide, given the second quarter activity, we're now even more confident in our 2023, 2024, and 2025 outlook, as well as opportunities ahead of us. With over $1.1 billion of backlog already for 2023 and beyond, we certainly have high confidence in our previously disclosed three-year CAGR on sales and adjusted earnings per share. Before I conclude and open it up for Q&A, I want to show slide 34, which I want to say a personal thank you to our amazing summer interns from high schools and universities around the world. Take a moment to appreciate each and every one of our interns for their dedication this summer. And as part of our talent development, we look forward to having you back next summer or full time. So now, Katherine, open it up for Q&A.
spk08: Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, you'll need to press star 1-1 on your telephone. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. Our first question comes from John Walsh with Credit Suisse. Your line is open.
spk03: Hi. Good morning, Jill, Joe, and Wade. How are you? Hey, John. Doing great. Excellent. I wondered if we could first talk a little bit about some of the visibility you have for the margin drivers in the second half versus the first half. So I heard kind of in the prepared remarks, you got backlog, right, volume, maybe some of these frictional costs get a little easier, price cost. I don't know if you can quantify any of that, but we'd just love to hear your bridge on the margins, H2 to H1.
spk01: Yeah, sure. So, you know, there's multiple components that go into that incremental increase in the margins. The CTS backlog burn-off that we commented, you know, three or four times in our prepared remarks is a key part of that. Also, the timing of the backlog in terms of these mid-level size projects, so I refer to these $10 to $50 million size projects, we booked four of those the last week of December of 2021, where primary revenue on those is in the second half. in addition to some of these other mid-scale orders that were laid out on, I think it was slide five or four of the deck. So those are all kind of contributors based on the mixed profile and less of this price-cost lag backlog. There's some other contributors in terms of the macro environment, and we tried to account for offsets in our guide related to things like FX. and so on. Probably the only thing I'd specifically point out is we focused on CTS in prepared remarks, but HTS in terms of the air-cooled heat exchanger business has really turned the corner in margin, both from organic automation and productivity improvements, but also really from the price cost coming out of that lagged backlog as well. So all of those things together with a higher specialty mix, give us confidence in that stair step from one age to two age.
spk03: Great. And then I thought it was very interesting, this kind of fourth leg around LNG that you're talking about. I was just curious, you know, the genesis on why now. Did the installed base hit a certain age? Did something change? And then how do we actually see it in the P&L? Is some of it showing up in repair and service and parts of it through HTS if it's a replacement? Maybe just help us understand how that fourth leg flows through the P&L.
spk01: Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, let's answer your first question twofold. Why now? I'll answer it for why now are we calling it out of the company and why now in the markets? We're calling it out as a company right now because we've seen enough actual magnitude in terms of the order book to have it be meaningful enough to talk about separately. In terms of why is it happening in the market right now, there's definitely, I think since the Russia-Ukraine conflict has broken out, this need for speed and utilization of existing infrastructure is a key driver in that. So it's not just greenfield, and it's how do I get more gas faster? And that's allowing for capital decisions to be made around retrofitting and refurb. And I think the same applies to more traditional energy infrastructure as well. We're seeing a little bit of that in our HTS segment. In terms of where this flows through, it is, to your exact point there, split between RSL and HTS. So take as an example the Southeastern Utility small-scale replacement. That would flow through our HTS business because while it's a replacement for them, it's new equipment from us. Whereas if we have field service work, which I think year-to-date we've booked about 13, 14 million more related to LNG, particular in this fourth leg, that would primarily roll through RSL.
spk03: Great. I'll pass it along for the fellow analysts.
spk04: Thank you. Thanks, John.
spk08: Our next question comes from Eric Stein with Craig Hallam. Your line is open.
spk11: Hi, Jill. Hi, Jill.
spk08: Eric, good morning.
spk01: Hey.
spk11: Good morning. Maybe just following up on that margin question. I mean, obviously not providing guidance for 2023 and going forward, but You know, I would assume we should think about continued margin improvement given higher utilization, given some of the easing of the materials costs that you talked about, and also just maybe on price, you know, maybe thoughts on you've obviously taken a lot of action, but ability, you think, to hold that potentially if you do see those materials costs start to ease and that that's sustainable.
spk01: Yeah, I have a very high confidence in increasing margins continuation through 2023, 2024. And that's a function of some of the things you just named. It's a function of the high level of volume rolling through our shops, more of the standardization. Internally, what we call flexible manufacturing. So where we used to, you know, three, four years ago, we would make a product in a shop, and now we're in the path of optimizing where we make what. And so pieces and parts across our manufacturing footprint go together in a much more seamless and optimized way. So those are some of the organic things that are happening. We do anticipate that we can hold on to a meaningful portion of the price. We, in fairness to our customers, will be giving the surcharge back when we see a trend on some of these higher costs abating but that's why we designed the price surcharge the way that we did so that there was a piece that we were going to we were going to price at some point anyway and so we had to accelerate that and that's going to continue to be in in our margin profile so all told i have a high level of confidence you know if you look beyond 2022 out into the further opportunities to meaningfully improve by hundreds of bips the margin profile that we have.
spk11: Got it. That's helpful. And maybe last one for me. In the release, I think you cited seven MOUs, and one of them you announced with Wolf. Here on the call, you're talking eight, so maybe you're breaking a little bit of news that you've added an LNG MOU recently, but if you could just go into detail a little bit more, I know maybe you're limited as to what you can share, but whatever you can share on those eight MOUs would be great.
spk01: And it's funny you say that because I had somebody else reading the press release, you know, for a tick and tie, and they read it as seven, and I was meaning to roll the prior sentence of talking about one plus seven, so... Obviously, my grammar needs to be improved on that. So it is eight. One was recent, though, to your point, and I can talk about a few of them that are in the public domain and I'm able to talk about. One on the hydrogen side of things is Blacktree, and that one is related to us being the exclusive provider of hydrogen equipment as well as liquefaction for their projects going forward. On the LNG side, there's a couple that I can't use their names, but these are EU customers that have signed maintenance and long-term repair and service agreements with us. What we love about that is the linkage to the original equipment customer just gets stronger and stronger. So one of those was actually a repair and maintenance agreement. of others' equipment, and now we're seeing the reverse pull-through where we're getting original equipment sales as a result of that agreement. Then there's some carbon capture ones. We talked about the Wolf one today. There's a couple of others that are similar in nature, and this is on the large-scale SES, cryogenic carbon capture side of things. Those are really specific. Where we're seeing the most action on carbon capture is on the industrial application side. In almost all cases, the reuse case. So meaning customers that in their product that they're manufacturing, they use CO2. So you can start to get the economics to work a little bit better at a larger scale. So that's the upshot of the agreements. More specificity can't be shared just given NDAs, but all positive with meaningful commercial opportunities behind them. Sometimes companies get out there and they've got MOUs, et cetera, but that don't necessarily have immediate commercial opportunities. All of these have very soon commercial opportunities tied to them.
spk11: Okay, that's helpful. Thanks, Gil.
spk01: Thanks, Eric. Talk soon.
spk08: Our next question comes from Ben Nolan with Stifel. Your line is open.
spk10: Hey, Jill and Joe. So I've got two, if I can work them in real quick. First, just in terms of thinking about the macro, obviously the order is fantastic and everything else. And you talked through the fact that so far you've not seen any slowdown. But I was wondering, especially in Europe, if it's a function of high energy prices and maybe the industrial economy slowing down a little bit. How are you guys thinking about specifically the CPS business servicing traditional industrial gas guys? Have you started to see any slowing or any signs of concern at all around that part of the business?
spk01: We've not yet seen that, but I would agree with you. It's something that we're watching very closely. I think a portion of it is The result of the recent focus on some of these energy applications and the need for the energy independence is also showing through the CTS segment, because in many cases, some of the tanks flow through for those applications flow through CTS. The other piece that contributes to this is many of our CTS customers are global in nature, and so when they're buying We don't always know the end geographic point for where the tank is going, but we haven't seen a slowdown in their behavior compared to typical or compared to what we've expected on a global nature. That doesn't necessarily mean that that particular region is lower and another region is higher, but nothing specific that points to that. if there was a risk, um, a risk factor, which we feel like we've contemplated in the guide, I would say the EU to your point, the EU CTS side would be where we'd be watching for that, but nothing yet.
spk10: Okay. That's, that's good color. Appreciate it, Joe. Uh, and then, and then secondly, you talked about, uh, the, some of the big LNG, uh, developments and being improved by oil majors and, or total and, um, One of the things that we had seen, I guess, last week was that Exxon was looking to pivot their Mozambique project. And I know you can't talk about specific projects or whatever, but my question was, is it possible to sort of quantify where you think your market share has been for some of that big LNG stuff on a global basis, not just in the Gulf Coast? And given what you're seeing, what's realistic from your perspective as to sort of where you might be able to push that?
spk01: That's a really good point, and you certainly were seeing, I think we added, what was it, something like seven or eight new international opportunities into one of the categories on the big LNG side. So generally speaking, international work for these projects, to date, we haven't had any IPSMR adopted. We've had some equipment in those projects outside of U.S. Gulf Coast, which primarily when it's a base load facility is going to be a spiral wound exchanger versus a brazed aluminum heat exchanger. So most of our equipment would be in pretreatment historically. Now what we're seeing is a very strong movement in that international market toward this modular mid-scale. And whether it's Mozambique specifically or these regions off the coast of South Africa, off the coast of Europe, also in other regions of Southeast Asia, all of those regions we're seeing potential customers and current customers looking at moving to the modular side. So if I globally said big LNG share from a process technology side, it would be zero international right now, and I'd probably guesstimate 40% in the U.S. Gulf Coast guesstimating, and combine both of those numbers meaningfully increase with both the qualifications but also this market move toward modularity.
spk10: Perfect. I appreciate the color and detail there, Jill. Thanks.
spk04: Thank you, Ben.
spk08: Our next question comes from Chase Mulvhill with Bank of America. Your line is open.
spk15: Hey, good morning, Jill.
spk08: Morning, Chase.
spk15: Yeah, so I just want to come back to margins and think about the progression in the back half. I know you've kind of talked about some of this at a high level. But maybe, I don't know if you want me to do this, but I'm going to try to pin you down on some margin numbers. So, you know, obviously, I think you've been talking about 3Q kind of having a noticeable step up. And so just want to make sure if that's still the case. And then do we expect margins to step up again in the fourth quarter? Or do you have any kind of seasonality when we think about margins in the fourth quarter?
spk01: So typically, we would have some seasonality, but just based on how the backlog is flowing out on the project work, it'll actually be this year will be sequential Q3 to Q4 increase. And also based on how the backlog flows out, you'll have a more meaningful Q4. Between Q3 and Q4, Q4 is going to be higher on both revenue and profit and margin percent of sales. So you'll see a step up from Q2 to Q3, a step up from Q3 to Q4. And I think your other comments are accurate as well around, yes, a meaningful step up from Q2 to Q3.
spk15: In your guidance, you know, maybe at the low end of your guidance applied for the back half, do you mind kind of giving us a gross profit margin percentage that you expected in the fourth quarter?
spk01: Yeah, somewhere in the 31%
spk15: and change okay all right perfect um and then you know follow-up question here I mean I think Ben kind of asked about you know potential slowdown in Europe uh but we've been getting a lot of questions on just kind of the overall energy crisis and the potential for uh and the risk for kind of power rationing and you know during the winter um so I guess a couple of questions for you You know, number one, could you just kind of talk about your European manufacturing footprint and the energy intensity of that footprint? And then, you know, number two is when you think about your supply chain, you know, how reliant are you on Europe on your supply chain and kind of what are you doing to kind of potentially, you know, manage some of this risk as we get into the winter? Sure.
spk01: So let's step back to the first part of the question. We manufacture in our European facilities, you know, about approximately 225, 250 million of our total annual revenue-ish on average. There's a couple of primary, a few primary facilities in that number. The Czech Republic, Italy, and Germany are the three primary locations in our EU footprint. and with more heavy revenues coming from the Czech Republic and Germany. With that said, we've seen, we actually saw our heightened utility, electricity, energy input costs with two quarters ago. We saw a little bit of that tempering. Some of that's a construct on just how the billing works and how the arrangement is, but we have continued to see certainly higher than typical cost side of things. From an input perspective, we're able to manufacture everything that we make in those facilities somewhere else. Now, it would not be nearly as efficient as what we do in those locations, in particular, given the level of backlog and capacity we have open in other locations. But suffice it to say that if there was a long-term issue of being able to operate there, we could move things around to other facilities, which has been part of our strategy to make every product that we have in our portfolio in more than one chart location, which we're over 95% of the way there across the total portfolio. When you look at the supply chain side, we've worked very hard necessarily as a result of this potential issue in Europe, but really as a result of last year's issues in the supply chain to have multiple levers to pull in our vendor base. What I mean by that is historically, meaning three or four years ago, we were looking to be on global supply arrangements. We still like those where they're applicable and where there's cost savings, but we also have backup supply on a regional basis. So we can go both directions on global or local. And we've already looked at and started to deploy other supply chains in anticipation that this could be an issue. But all that to say is that we don't expect any interruption in our manufacturing from this. And what I just dialogued there anecdotally is all the reasons why and all of the things that have gone into our thinking to prepare for that type of scenario.
spk15: Okay. All makes sense. Appreciate all the color there. I'll turn it back over. Thanks, Jill.
spk04: Thank you, Chase.
spk08: Our next question comes from Mark Bianchi with Cowan. Your line is open.
spk09: Hey, thanks. I wanted to ask about orders. So you had this very helpful slide, number four, And then on slide five, you talk about the $445 million of orders excluding big LNG here. I think that's what that's referring to. But anyhow, what's the outlook for orders X big LNG here in the back half of the year? You had a really nice hydrogen liquefier award in the second quarter. So maybe you could just sort of talk to all of that for the back half.
spk01: Yeah, thanks, Mark. And thank you for talking about orders, because we were pretty pleased with our nearly $900 million order quarter. And there were a couple, a few hydrogen liquefiers in the second quarter. So we had actually anticipated that we'd get one, and there'd be one or two more in the second half of the year. So we had a few in Q2, and we'll still anticipate getting at least one more in the second half is kind of our thinking, maybe two. With that said, your prior call question was would we be at or above one on a book-to-bill, and the answer is across the second half is yes, we continue to expect to be above one on book-to-bill.
spk09: Does that include BNG awards?
spk01: That would not include big LNG awards. No, that would be everything else but big LNG orders, which to your comment is what that 445 is on slide five. That's the average X big LNG.
spk09: Yep. Okay, super. And how much... Big LNG revenue is now contemplated in 2022. I think that was like 25 to 40 before. And then given the awards you've got now, how much should we be or how much is scheduled for 2023?
spk01: Yes. And I purposely stopped calling that out because now it's kind of becoming, I don't want to say it's a regular part of our business, but essentially it's going to be part of our answer for the next three years. And so we're not going to call it out specifically every quarter since then we'd have to start calling out other things every quarter. With that said, similar to what we had anticipated before is what we're thinking now. There's obviously variability to have that move between quarters depending on POC and Red Rec timing and shipments and so on. The majority, the meaningful majority of the 528 that we booked will be revenue after 2022.
spk09: Okay. If I could just ask one more on the sticking with LNG and this regas and retrofit opportunity, how big is that today or maybe over the last, you know, 12 months or two years, whatever kind of timeframe you want to talk about just so we get a sense of what the base is?
spk01: Yeah, really up until this year to date, we saw periodically, but I mean, we're talking five, $10 million a year type of level. And year to date, we booked 39 change million on it. And there's just a ton of things in our commercial pipeline related to this particular bucket that could be meaningful. For example, right now we're quoting on two nitrogen rejection units, which in terms of magnitude of an NRU for our content would be above $50 million per NRU, most of them above $75 million. So that gives you a sense that there's material potential orders in this space with a first half with nothing of that magnitude of about $40 million to date.
spk04: Great. Thanks so much. Thank you, Mark. We have a question from Rob Brown with Lake Street.
spk08: Your line is open.
spk05: Hi, Joe. Hi, Joe. Hi, Rob. On the brazed aluminum heat exchanger business that seems to be coming up off the bottom, how is that market dynamics ramping, and do you see that having several quarters of improvement here, or how does that look at this point?
spk01: Yeah, and I'll expand your question to also talk about air coolers because both of them are improving and will continue to improve for two different reasons, I would say. You know, the air cool business is primarily more book and ship business, and so we've both priced better but also gotten the standard work that we do in that particular shop and You know, completing the move from Tulsa, Oklahoma to Beasley, Texas for that particular product line is also going to help continue to raise the margin profile in air coolers. On the BRAZE side, the market dynamics is not only improving, it's positive right now. And that's across multiple applications that use BRAZE. And I'll comment on it with respect to HTS first, and then I'm going to take it over to specialty. So on HTS side, we're seeing the market dynamics improve on things that were, I would say, essentially on hiatus for the last two years, things that were not speculative capital builds, but more traditional applications like the pet chems and the PDHs of the world. Then we're seeing, as Ben was asking about, this traction on the IPSMR process technology for both small-scale, not both, small-scale floating as well as big LNG. So that's gaining more traction for Braze because Braze fits very well with IPSMR, obviously. And then take it to the specialty side where the Braze aluminum heat exchangers are used in multiple specialty applications, inclusive of hydrogen and helium. So we're excited to continue to see that those markets evolve, which we've obviously spent more time in our prepared remarks over the last year talking about specialty. and that momentum continues where the hydrogen liquefier orders that we booked in the second quarter, they will all include a brazed aluminum heat exchanger and a cold box, which will be – the cold box will be done at Front East in Allentown, Pennsylvania. So lots of pieces and parts kind of coming together from a market dynamic side as well as from a chart footprint side and capacity side with a very strong order book.
spk05: Okay, great. Thank you. And then in the HLNG business, I know it's sort of in a weaker spot. What do you see in the market there, and is there any signs that that's turning, or is it still low visibility?
spk01: Yeah, you know, as we came into the second quarter, we had tempered our expectations, but they didn't really improve through the second quarter for HLNG side of things. The customers, though, are extraordinarily, or at least what they tell us is they're extraordinarily bullish still on HLNG. the LNG commercial truck market. And so this has been, in their talk to us, a temporary slowdown. Now, with that said, we've basically said there's minimal recovery in the second half of the year. Then yesterday morning, we get a million seven order for HLNG vehicle tanks. So it's pretty, I would say, volatile right now in terms of being able to predict it. So that's why we've tried to bake in a lower look. All that said, there's been no indication that it won't come back. It's just timing. And I think that's a key message kind of across the board on a lot of this when I keep saying, well, in our world, a shift from a quarter to another quarter is not at all meaningful in terms of how we operate. And that's similar in nature to the HLNG operators as well as they navigate through their other supply chains, such as semiconductors. So I'm confident that it'll come back. I just am not confident that it comes back in 2H.
spk07: Okay, thank you. I'll turn it over.
spk04: Thanks, Rob.
spk08: Our next question comes from Martin Molloy with Johnson Rice Company. You're line is open.
spk02: Good morning.
spk01: Hey, Marty.
spk02: Hi. Just two questions. The first on big LNG. And, you know, there's been a steady pace of sales purchase agreements related to expansions and projects like Blackman's and Corpus Christi where you've got some recent awards. And also some expansions of other projects domestically and some greenfields. It looks like there's going to be a pretty heavy demand for the brazilian heat exchangers out in 24-25. And maybe if you could just talk about your manufacturing capacity and will there be need for further manufacturing capacity following on what you're doing in Tulsa? to meet that demand and also what this might mean for HTS margins when you look out to 24, 25?
spk01: Yeah, that's a great question. And what I would say is starting with the capacity question that we have made strategic investments in our capacity over the past four and a half, five years purposely. The first one was the 25 million or so capital investment in our second world largest brazing furnace in our La Crosse, Wisconsin facility. We did that in anticipation of a cycle of LNG projects, and that was completed in 2018. We weren't exactly right on the timing of that, yet it's proving to allow us to take these orders without having to contemplate, okay, I got to move this around, or I have to worry about delivery schedules. We're able to take all of these orders and all of the potential ones that are coming in with that capacity that we put in place in Wisconsin. Now, we also do need the capacity that Joe Biard just talked about in his remarks in our Tulsa facility. That furnace is going to be for 98-inch cores, so that's smaller than the world's largest one, and we chose that because that's kind of the sweet spot of the Braze core, and also that's the sweet spot of the cores for many of the special market applications, which is just part of our thinking on where we put what in terms of flow through of the shops. So we don't anticipate having to do more capacity on the brazed side of things. Then, you know, flip to its partner, the cold box, where we have a current organic expansion happening in our new Iberia facility that's in Louisiana. And that's specific to adding some roof line. We were finding more and more customers want their boxes to be produced under roof. And coupled that with the same comment of specialty cold boxes, we got that capacity through the Fronty acquisition at the end of May. So we're feeling very good about being able to take more of this work. And I would echo your comment on expecting demand in 23, 24, 25 to continue to be very strong. And not just, you know, not just on these new export terminal projects. We are back to that leg four of LNG. You know, we are definitely seeing proactive retrofitting of existing facilities as well. You know, currently quoting on some retrofitting of pipe across one existing U.S. Gulf Coast facility, some add-ons like the NRUs and the heavy hydro systems. So very exciting time in the industry itself. And the last part of your question on what the growth margin profile for HTS look like, if you look back at the peak of a cycle historically, the equivalent of HTS margin, so it would have been at the time E and C, but the equivalent translated would have been about 36, 37% at the peak. That was a year that did include a big, a meaningful chunk of big LNG work. I think it was like $100 million or something in that year. So the large project work certainly does drive that margin up, not pricing-wise, but absorption-wise is the most meaningful impact there.
spk02: Great. Thank you. Next question. on the specialty products side and the impressive orders there. You cited space and water treatment. I was wondering if maybe you could talk a little bit about your outlook for the pace of awards there.
spk01: I was thrilled with both space and water in terms of the last couple of quarters in demand. Space is an interesting one. historically for us it's been fairly de minimis in terms of size of orders and hard to predict when they'll come. The private space exploration industry takes their time and then hurries up. And so coupling that together, what we are seeing and pretty excited about is this movement from all of the space industry toward these supersized tanks toward fuller cryogenic solutions. I'm also cautiously excited about the potential for the space customers to also look at owning their own liquefaction. So obviously they use multiple different molecules in their launches. And there's been some talk in the industry about owning their own floating liquefiers, et cetera. So there's a good outlook for space and we're really well positioned in particular with this bulk tank and jumbo tank capability that very, very few in the world have. Second part of the answer on water treatment. So water treatment we have expected since the acquisition of Blue and Green and the acquisition of Ad-Edge that we would continue to see an increasing share. And that's the result of having the technology, the treatment technology, not just the equipment. And that's proving out what I'm very excited about in the water side of the business is this more global reach that we're starting to be able to penetrate. So in the second half of 21, I commented about a nice water win for Sao Paulo, Brazil water treatment. This quarter, I commented about the India second win of the year. So we have had two large India water awards, and we expect that the international market for water is going to continue to accelerate both in the near medium term. So that for us, we feel like we're well positioned in a certain part of that value chain. And there's a lot of addressable market outside of the U.S. for us to go after.
spk02: Great. Thank you.
spk08: Our next question comes from Greg Lewis with BTIG.
spk12: Okay, thank you, thank you, and good morning, everybody, and thanks for taking my question. I guess my first question is around, you know, congratulations on the orders, the hydrogen liquefier order. You know, I guess what I'm trying to understand is, as we think about, you know, not necessarily the long-term outlook, because there's clearly opportunities everywhere, but as we think as what's happening, like, in the now, Is there any way to kind of give us any color around geography and customer base, i.e., you know, are we selling these largely to one customer or is there, you know, multiple customers that we're selling our hydrogen equipment to?
spk01: Yeah. Hi, Greg. So I'm just going to answer your question because you wanted me to focus on the now. So right now what we're seeing is you know, a fairly even split between the liquefiers and associated equipment, whether that's storage tanks onsite or offsite or trailers or, you know, associated piping. With that, what we've seen over the last 12 months specifically, so let's step back to the start of when people cared about hydrogen, which was May of 2020. Here we are two years later. The first year was grappling with the colors of hydrogen as well as the gaseous versus liquid, right applications, and so on. Then the second year, meaning the last 12 months, what we've seen is a convergence on gaseous and liquid are going to both be part of the solution and a movement toward, I would say, more action on scale. What that's done for our book of business is diversified our hydrogen customer set So, for example, the liquefiers that we're referencing this quarter, there's more than one there that's for two different customers, and they're two new liquefier customers for us. So, broader-based. Still, I'd say it still is a very, as you commented, embryonic market as a whole, yet the diversification of the potential liquefier customers is... directionally very positive for us. And those types of customers range from utilities to pure play hydrogen customers, meaning the hydrogen guys that want to own the molecule through to the entire infrastructure, all the way to the next bucket being the industrial gas customers. And I always throw in, when I talk to the public domain, I throw in the fourth bucket of the dreamers. We haven't really seen commercial, true commercial activity from the dreamers, the guys that are coming up with these more cutting edge type projects. It's really the first three. And then the geographic part of the question is similar in terms of year one, it was pretty targeted US and Europe. The last 12 months, we've seen a broader base of geographic orders, and that's been Canada, Certainly US and Europe are active too, continue to be active, but Canada has been very active. South Korea has been very active. China has been active behind the scenes, so we don't get permission to talk a lot about the hydrogen work that we do in China, yet we do have group code certification for the liquid hydrogen storage tanks, which is a nice differentiation in that market. And we're starting to hear a little bit in Central South America and Australia, but the first set of geographies I just described are where these orders are being placed from.
spk12: Okay, great. That was super helpful, Jill. Thanks. And then just one other question around LNG. And I know that clearly we're calling out brownfield retrofit opportunities, so it seems like this should be something that we could see here. you know, over the next quarters or at least one to two years, is there any way to kind of think about the difference between when chart books a greenfield versus we'll call it brownfield order in terms of the cadence of revenue? And is there any difference around the margins that we should be thinking about for a retrofit project versus, say, a greenfield project?
spk01: So in terms of the cadence of revenue, it'll depend on what kind of brownfield project we're talking about. If you were talking about an NRU or a heavy hydrocarbon removal system, you know, at the short end, that's going to be like a 12-month type of timeline, but it could be even longer than that. Depends on the size of it, depends on where it's going, etc. Whereas on the short end of things would be like a field service repair and something that you go out to the site and that's kind of a quick turn within a quarter type of work and the field service is going to generate meaningfully better margins than anything else that we're talking about because typically that's going to be an emergency type of situation. Generally speaking, Greenfield-Brownfield margin profiles will be similar to each other on the bigger LNG side of things, if we were just to say as a whole. But there's pieces within there that you could differentiate to be higher. The other piece on the Brownfield in terms of timing would be things like if I'm going to change out all my pipes in my facility. That would be the lead time for the pipe itself. And we tend to do medium to high diameter pipe so the lead time on that would be something like uh you know 20 weeks 20 weeks vr says here and then the install would be fairly quick after that so a little bit shorter i would say greg and inter compared to a greenfield okay super helpful thank you everybody have a great day thanks greg you too thank you
spk08: Our last question comes from Craig Sherry with TUI Brothers. Your line is open.
spk13: Good morning. Thanks for taking the question.
spk01: Hey, good morning, Craig.
spk13: Jill, I basically have a question about the domino impact catalyst across segments and decisions about how to allocate revenue amongst segments. As an example, the former Curious about the implications of what you mentioned, hydrogen-concluded oil wells on upstream HTS opportunities. And on the latter, wonder why things like renewable diesel and sustainable aviation fuel would be in HTS and not the new economy clean nexus specialty product segment. And at what point we start breaking out the more massive, bigger specialty pieces into their own standalone units.
spk01: Yeah, so let me start by just the construct of the way we prioritize where things are reported, and then I'll get into more specific answers. The construct would be if the application itself is for specialty, even if it's using equipment that historically would have been in a DNS or an ENC segment, which respectively would be CTS and HTS respectively. that it will go into specialty. So specialty is first. If it's a repair or service, it will go through RSL. And then from there, if it's more traditional application in HTS, it'll show up in HTS. Or if it's a piece of something that is going into a larger facility for an end market that would be heat transfer, it would show up there. So I'll give a very specific example, like you said, on the specialty side. If it's a brazed aluminum heat exchanger for a hydrogen liquefier, that will be reported through specialty. If it's a brazed aluminum heat exchanger for a PDH plant or a nat gas processing plant, it'll show TTS. The renewable diesel and SAF question specifically, currently it's a fairly, very small portion of our order book, and they have been with existing customers and plants that are more traditional energy customers and locations. And we are contemplating kind of as that grows, we think that it probably does need to go through specialty, but as part of, you know, as part of something like BioLNG, then we'll move it into the specialty bucket. At what point do we break out a market or an application? So obviously hydrogen would be the natural one we'd be talking about given our addressable market size and our continuation of strong order book in that sector. It's still early in terms of the market, and what I mean by that is in terms of consistency of this growth has proven to be better than I had anticipated originally for the hydrogen market. So that's a plus one. Yet, we're only truly two years into seeing how the market is going to evolve. Even though we've been doing hydrogen related equipment for 57 plus years, it wasn't really truly a market until a couple of years ago. So it's a combination decision around the market itself and where we think it is in and the size of our business that would make sense to report on. You could imagine people have a hard time as it is with our four segments, just given the diversity across them, that adding a fifth, we'd have to really be able to talk to all of these metrics consistently against good comparables that would make it worthwhile to a shareholder.
spk13: Right. Just as a follow-up, renewable diesel and sustainable aviation fuel, I mean, combined, couldn't that be one or 200 million annual revenue by mid-decade and beyond?
spk01: For sure.
spk13: Great. Thank you.
spk01: Thank you, Craig.
spk08: Thank you. And that does conclude today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.
spk04: The conference will begin shortly. To raise your hand during Q&A, you can dial star 1 1.
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