HNI Corporation

Hello and thank you for standing by. My name is Bella and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to HNI Corporation fourth quarter and fiscal year end 2025 conference call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press star, then the number one on your telephone keypad. To withdraw your question, press star 1 again. I would now like to turn the conference over to Matt McCall. You may begin.

Good morning. My name is Matt McCall. I'm Vice President, Investor Relations and Corporate Development for H&I Corporation. Thank you for joining us to discuss our fourth quarter and fiscal year 2025 results. With me today are Jeff Loringer, Chairman, President, and CEO, and VP Berger, Executive Vice President and CFO. Copies of our financial news release and non-GAAP reconciliations are posted on our website. Statements made during this call that are not strictly historical facts are forward-looking statements, which are subject to known and unknown risk. Actual results could differ materially. The financial news release posted on our website includes additional factors that could affect actual results. The corporation assumes no obligation to update any forward-looking statements made during the call. I'm now pleased to turn the call over to Jeff Laundrie.

yeah good morning and thank you for joining us 2025 was a seminal year for h i corporation our members delivered excellent results as we reported a fourth straight year of double-digit non-gap eps growth despite persistent soft and uncertain macro conditions the positive momentum of our strategies the benefits of our diversified revenue streams our ongoing focus on items within our control and the merits of our customer-first business model continue to deliver strong shareholder value. And late in the year, we completed the acquisition of Steelcase. This combination will not only transform our company, but also the workplace furnishings industry. On today's call, we will review our fourth quarter and full year 2025 results and provide some commentary around our expectations for 2026 and beyond, including the benefits of the Steelcase acquisition. Before I discuss our recent performance, I want to reflect on the fundamental improvements we have driven at HNI. Our transformation has taken multiple steps and years. I will begin with workplace furnishings where margins have been reset. Three years ago, our legacy workplace furnishings business launched a profitability improvement initiative that was instrumental in expanding operating margin nearly 1000 basis points. In 2023, price cost recovery following the period of elevated inflation drove the first phase of expansion. Since then, multiple portfolio management moves, ongoing network optimization efforts, KII synergies, and the benefits of ramping our Mexico facility have supported consistent profitability improvement. Based on the initiatives already underway, including the recently announced plans to close our Wayland New York manufacturing facility, We have line of sight to continued operating margin expansion in the coming years. And our margin expansion story is increasingly supported by affirming macroeconomic picture in our workplace furnishings segment. I will provide more macro commentary later in the call. Shifting to our residential building product segment, our evolution started with the strategic shifts following the great financial crisis. Since then, we have adjusted our cost structure, fully embraced lean manufacturing, and continued to pursue a vertically integrated business model with the leading brands in all product categories. The result was more than 1,000 basis points of operating margin expansion over the decade post-2009. In addition, since 2019, the efficiency, nimbleness, and uniqueness of our building products business have supported consistently strong profitability with sustained operating margins in the mid to high teens. This consistency of both margins and cash flow are foundational elements to H&I's financial strength. We expect this profitability and cash generation to continue into 2026 and beyond. More recently, our focus in residential building products has shifted to the front end of the business and are driving top-line growth. Structural changes have been implemented to organize around the customer and ensure we have laser-focused go-to-market strategies to support our growth initiatives. These front end investments are paying off in the absence of cyclical support. In 2025, we reported segment revenue growth of 6% despite continued weakness in the new home market. We expect to outperform again in 2026. This historical context helps set the stage as we enter the next exciting chapter of the H&I story. The acquisition of Steelcase unites two industry leaders to meet the dynamic marketplace and evolving needs of the workplace, and accelerating in-office work trends. We have brought together two highly respected companies with shared values, talented teams, strong financial profiles, and highly complementary capabilities, innovation, thought leadership, and operational excellence chief among them. This strong foundation combined with expected synergies will accelerate our ability to invest in long-term operational enhancements, digital transformation, customer-centered buying experiences, and products to meet evolving customer needs. Our integration efforts are underway, and we are leveraging a disciplined and proven approach informed by recent experience, while continuing to build on the iconic brands for which both companies are widely respected. H&I will now have total revenue of more than $5.8 billion. Including all synergies, total adjusted EBITDA will be nearly $750 million, and annual free cash flow will approximately be $350 million. We are now the market leader in both of our industries, workplace furnishings and hearth products. I can report that the integration of the Steelcase acquisition is off to a strong start. Six months following the announcement, we're even more confident in our move to add Steelcase to the H&I family. The complimentary go-to-market nature of the two businesses from a capability, product, brand, customer, and cultural perspective has been reinforced as we have begun to work together. We also remain confident in our ability to deliver the targeted synergies of $120 million and drive margin expansion at Steelcase. Our current synergy projections are focused on the Americas business and do not include any revenue synergies. And importantly, we are laser focused on minimizing any front end disruption across our workplace furnishings businesses. As we have consistently stated, there are no plans to change dealer partnerships, sales forces, or brand distribution. And as I've been traveling and engaging with our teams, it is clear that this continuity is being received positively by customers, industry influencers, and our dealers. Now I would turn the call over to VP to provide some additional detail about 2025, discuss our outlook for the first quarter of 2026, and give some thoughts on how we see the full year playing out. I will then provide a longer-term perspective on the opportunities surrounding our businesses before we open the call to your questions. VP?

Thanks, Jeff. I will start with some additional comments about 2025. Fiscal 2025 non-GAAP diluted earnings per share for our legacy business was $3.74. which increased 22% from 2024 levels. Again, this was our fourth consecutive year of double-digit earnings growth, with the average annual growth rate exceeding 15%. Total net sales for the year increased 12% overall and 6% on an organic basis. Excluding all impacts from Steelcase, full-year adjusted operating margin for H&I expanded 80 basis points, reaching 9.4%. The improvement was driven by volume growth, productivity gains, Kimball International synergy capture, and price-cost benefits. From a segment perspective, in our legacy workplace furnishings business, full-year organic net sales increased 6% year-over-year, fueled primarily by the strength of our contract brands and the benefit of an extra week in fiscal 2025. Full-year profitability, excluding the steel case stub period, benefited from volume growth, our profit transformational efforts, KII synergy capture, while we continue to invest in future growth initiatives. Full-year non-GAAP operating profit margin expanded 100 basis points year over year to 10.5%, as we delivered on our previously stated goal of achieving double-digit operating margin. Non-GAAP operating margin has expanded nearly 900 basis points over the past three years. Looking ahead, we expect revenue growth and margin expansion in our legacy workplace furnishing business for the full year 2026, even as we continue to invest to drive growth. In residential building products, fourth quarter revenue grew more than 10% versus the same period of 2024, driven by the strength in the remodel retrofit market and the benefits of the extra week. For the full year, revenue increased nearly 6% versus 2024. New construction revenue was flat, with the remodel retrofit up a double-digit pace with solid volume improvement. Segment non-gap operating profit margin in 2025 expanded 60 basis points year-over-year to a strong 18.1%. We remain encouraged about the long-term opportunities tied to the broader housing market, and we continue to invest and grow our operating model and revenue streams. As we look to 2026, we expect modest segment revenue and profit growth, despite ongoing challenges in the new construction market. Overall, as Jeff mentioned, 2025 was an outstanding year for H&I. Before I move to our outlook, a couple comments about Steelcase's impact on the quarter. We completed the acquisition of Steelcase on December 10th. Thus, we consolidated Steelcase's performance for the final three weeks of December into our reported results. The second half of December is a lower shipment and production period for our industries. Consequently, that stub period included seasonally lower levels of daily shipment activity, while we're more than offset by the recognition of full costs and expenses for the period. We excluded this impact from our adjusted results, and it does not provide any fundamental insight into our performance. And, as Jeff mentioned, the expected timing and magnitude of our projected $120 million of synergies and $1.20 of accretion are unchanged and unimpacted by the stub period. For the fourth calendar quarter, Steelcase generated strong results. Revenue grew approximately 5% year-over-year, and earnings grew about 9% from the fourth quarter 2024 levels, absent purchase accounting, restructuring, and acquisition-related costs. Now I'll transition to our outlook. For 2026, as Jeff mentioned, we expect a fifth year of double-digit non-GAAP EPS growth. Revenue growth is expected to continue while we drive bottom line improvement. In addition, our network optimization efforts continue to support our ongoing earnings visibility story we've been discussing with you. Our favorable fourth quarter 25 results included accelerating the benefits of these efforts. Looking forward, these initiatives, which include KII synergies, The ramp up of our Mexico facility, the closure of Hickory, and the planned closure of Wayland are expected to yield an incremental 25 to 30 cents over the next three years. Approximately 10 cents of this will be recognized in 2026. Finally, we now are expecting modest EPS secretion from Steelcase in 2026, excluding the impact of purchase accounting. Finally, a few additional comments to assist you with your 2026 modeling. Combined depreciation and amortization is expected to be approximately $175 to $180 million. Interest expense is expected to be between $75 and $80 million, and our tax rate should be approximately 25%. For the first quarter of 2026, we expect total net sales to increase by more than 130% year over year. Non-GAAP EPS is expected to decrease slightly from 2025 levels. Temporarily, first quarter earnings pressure is expected to be driven by revenue and expense recognition timing and the increased investment. Modest year-over-year revenue pressure in workplace is expected to be limited to the first quarter, and we expect mid-single digits for the full year. Building products revenue is expected to be up low single digits for the first quarter and the full year. And we expect year-over-year adjusted earnings per share to return in the second quarter and accelerate as the year progresses. Finally, a comment on cash flow and the balance sheet. Post the closing of the Steelcase acquisition, our balance sheet ended the year with a net debt to EBITDA ratio of two times. We expect our cash flow strength to continue and accelerate with the addition of Steelcase. As a result, leverage is expected to return to pre-deal levels in the 1 to 1.5 times range in the next 18 to 24 months. Finally, we remain committed to payment of our longstanding dividend and continue to invest in the business to drive future growth. I will now turn the call back over to Jeff for some long-term thoughts and closing comments. Thanks, VP.

Our fourth quarter in 2025 results demonstrate the strength of our strategies and our ability to manage through uncertain macroeconomic conditions while we remain focused on investing for the future. We expect strong results to continue in 2026, driven by our margin expansion efforts, synergy recognition and continued revenue growth. As we look forward, the timing was right for the acquisition of Steelcase from a strategic, financial and cyclical perspective. We are increasingly bullish about the workplace furnishings demand dynamics as the macroeconomic picture continues to firm. Return to office continues to be a positive driver of activity, with levels of remote work expected to continue to fall in 2026. Office leasing activity established a new post-pandemic high in the fourth quarter, with annual leasing activity up more than 5% for the full year 2025. And net absorption of office space which has historically been a leading indicator of future industry demand, was meaningfully positive in the second half of 2025. In fact, JLL believes a new expansionary cycle in the office space has begun. While new supply of office space will remain the headwind, we see multiple cyclical drivers of growth outside of new construction. Moving to housing, headlines continue to point to ongoing softness, especially in the new build space. Interest rates remain relatively elevated, prices remain high, and affordability remains low. As a result, we expect continued new construction weakness in 2026. However, our structural changes and growth investments should allow us to continue to outperform the market. In remodel retrofit, we are assuming modest growth in 2026. This is consistent with the LERA projections. In addition, we expect continued market outperformance in our R&R business. And importantly, we expect ongoing margin and cash flow consistency in this segment. Finally, our optimism continues to build around the addition of Steelcase to the H&I family. As I stated earlier, we are confident in our projected synergies of $120 million and accretion of $1.20. And as VP mentioned, we now expect modest accretion in 2026. We enter 2026 a transformed and fundamentally stronger organization. Upon recognition of all targeted synergies, the profile of H&I will include substantially higher earnings, stronger margins, greater cash flow, and a continued strong balance sheet. This will enable us to deliver exceptional value to our shareholders, customers, dealers, members, and communities. Thank you again for joining us. We will now open the call to your questions.

At this time, I would like to remind everyone in order to ask a question, press star, then the number one on your telephone keypad. We will pause for just a moment to compile the Q&A roster. Your first question comes from the line of Reuben Garner with the Benchmark Company. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Good morning, guys. Maybe to start, just the clarification about the outlook for the year, given the stub period and your efforts to kind of show what the underlying business in the fourth quarter, are the revenue and double-digit earnings growth comments for next year, are they off of the base without Steelcase or the base with Steelcase?

Perfect, Ruben. I kind of walked through the pieces. If you look at the, you know, on the face of the 346, that's including the Steelcase stub as well as all the purchase accounting, which is close to $4.6 million a headwinds. If you take out the purchase accounting, it's $3.53. That's what you're going to want to compare to for the future years because that's what's ran through the P&L. And that specific number is going to actually be up 16% if you talk about the growth. And then if you look at the 374, that's excluding purchase accounting and the steel case stub period.

And the double-digit growth for 26 would be off of which one of those three numbers?

353.

TAB, Mark McIntyre:" perfect Okay, and then your comments about workplace furnishings in the first quarter, I don't think I heard you mentioned, whether. TAB, Mark McIntyre:" You know just being what's happening in some of the major cities in the northeast and and knowing that you know New York, in particular, is playing a role is that in the recovery is that driving the kind of flattish I think you said first. quarter, and what gives you confidence about the acceleration that you're expecting as the year progresses in the mid-single-digit full-year guide? Is there any kind of backlog or order numbers from Steelcase and H&I legacy that kind of gives you confidence in a pretty meaningful acceleration as the year moves on?

Yeah, Ruben, that's a good question. I mean, you know, weather always can impact. We don't really hang our hat on that. I mean, I think it probably has some impact. It's been a little choppy, even in the fireplace business, you know, the hearth business, because they are outside, you know, and getting the homes to install. So there's a little tent up there probably and a little headwind. But, you know, bottom line is both when you look at legacy and steel case, we've got really, you know, strong, healthy activity, bid counts, both number and dollars, particularly in the contract side or in the high teens. The funnel, you know, our funnel metrics are up in count and in dollars, and particularly in large projects, over $5 million. And I'd say these are consistent across what I would call both legacy and the steel case business, if you look at it. And that's what's kind of driving, you know, our confidence. You know, in addition to the macro topics that I talked about, you know, firming up on on on office and net absorption and things like that so you got that going on macro and and micro internally we we see these these bid numbers and pre-sale activity numbers all trending you know nicely positive and then jeff you've had a little over 60 days i think if if i'm asked right uh since the deals closed that you've been able to kind of get in and

uh, meet with people, see how they do things. What, what have you learned? Um, you know, what, what kind of has surprised you to the upside or downside? What opportunities do you think you've, you've kind of developed or seen over the last couple of months?

Yeah, that's a good question. Ruben spent a lot of time with the teams in grand Rapids and a lot of times in the, a lot of time in the market. And I would say, um, You know, first of all, confidence continues to grow on why we did this transaction. If you look at the customer reach and the complementary nature of the brands and the geographies go to markets, the talented teams are working well together. We're out of the gates quick. And then I would tell you the positive response we've seen from customers, dealers, Salesforce, influencers, basically people in the value chain as I've gone out in the market and talked to them are very positive on this combination. And so that's been a real, I mean, we predicted that to be the case, but actually going to talk to customers in their locations and hearing the questions they ask and the enthusiasm they've shown, you know, for this, it's been, you know, it's been really strong.

All right, thanks. And I'm going to sneak one more in. I'm not going to count that first one. It's a full question. So the building product space, your outlook for low single digit growth is super encouraging, very impressive given how you performed in 25. It looked like you changed some things up about how you're selling or displaying the product down at the builder show a couple of weeks ago. I guess talk about what's driving your outperformance of the industry, there's not a lot of categories in building products, talking about kind of even flattish volume environments for this year. So for you guys to do it on top of what you did in 25, something has to be working for you. Can you just kind of dig into what you're doing there?

Yeah, we can, VP can comment on this as well. I mean, I think we've started to talk about this a while ago, you know, Ruben, which is, you know, really getting closer to the builders and the customer engaging in the market, being laser focused. on what we can bring to the table for our customers. And it's early days, but it's been really well received. I mean, we've got a great product lineup. We hit all price points, all fuel types. And as we get in and engage more specifically from a manufacturer side alongside our industry best-in-class distribution partners, the two things are really starting to have an impact. And combine that with the service model that we have in our own, you know, our large installing distributors independent and our FHH, you know, what I would tell you is it's moving the needle. And so we got a good product pipe we're talking about in the electric category, and all these things are really starting to catch hold. And I think that's really what's going on. I mean, it's nothing more than really customer-intimate focus you know, where customers want to be met, whether it be, you know, in the R&R segment or in the new home segment.

I don't know, VP, if you've got any other... Yeah, Jeff, I'd add, and the way we measure this, Ruben, is you can, you know, everybody sees the news of permits down 7% year-to-date, and they see contracted markets. We actually measure it market-by-market, and the initiatives that Jeff's talking about, the intimacy, we can see that we're seeing better results than that. So those are share gains, and in some cases, get more fireplace spec. So... It's the controlling the controllables. And on the remodel side, we've done a nice job on the stove side of our business. We've gone to a single brand to consolidate it. We've been able to get a lot more reach, a lot more reach into the retail and the big box. So that was an area for growth that's inside the numbers as well. So the long-term investments are paying off. We still have a lot more to do to get to more markets and more builders, but we certainly are not falling victim to a down 7% permit number.

Great. Thanks for the detail, guys. Congrats on the strong close to the year and the strong outlook. The stock market's being a bit irrational today, but I assume all this will work itself out, and good luck in 26.

Thank you. Thanks, Ruben.

Your next question comes from the line of Stephen Ramsey with Thomsen Research Group. Please go ahead.

Hey. Good morning, everyone. I wanted to start on the synergy number, $120 million being America's focus. A couple things on that. First, given your past execution, I think there could be upside to that. I'm curious kind of what points or targets you would need to reach to potentially raise that down the road. And then secondly, it being America's focus seems to imply that Steelcase International is is still projected to be a negative offset. Could that be a source of upside in the future?

Perfect, Steve, and I'll take it kind of in two pieces. The first 120 million that we originally announced is through our disciplined approach that we've learned through the KI process. You heard Jeff say we're still comfortable with that number. It takes every bit of three to six months to get, you know, the team working on the specific projects of, you know, how we're going to go execute it, which is why I've talked about accretion of 60 cents in the second year once these projects are up and running. And so to your question about timing, you know, six months in, if we've learned more, we'll share more. But right now, we're focused on making sure we understand the buckets between procurement, logistics, SG&A, and network optimization, and that we'll share with you as we learn more as we go. But I think the key thing from the last time we talked is we expected it to be neutral in year one. And now that we're in there, this is actually going to be modestly accretive. in year one. And that's really good considering the capital structure and the additional shares that were issued that it doesn't change our total target, but it shows that we'll start seeing the benefits of a little quicker. That's kind of question one. Question two on international, that is not offsetting anything. This $1.20 stands on its own. The international business has very good assets. As Jeff said, with the business and the teams working together, we're getting up to speed on that business, whether it's APAC or EMEA. We're getting lots of insight of, you know, how the businesses are going to go to market and their advantages. And I tell you, the teams are energized right now to drive profit improvement plans. They're in place in all of those areas, and that will not be a drag on the $1.20. Okay.

That's great, Keller. I wanted to think about the resi growth investment, and you talked about that being a consistent margin. Is the implication there? that 2026 resi margin is flattish with sales up, and is there a cadence for the year on the resi margin profile?

Yeah, I think that's the right way to think about it, Stephen. You know, that business is extremely flexible in profitability, as you've seen it, from whether it's $500 million or $850 million, it tracks between the 17% to 18%. we are going to continue to make the investments Jeff was talking about with, you know, builder and getting closer to the builder. So we would expect those margins with the revenue growth to stay right around the same area.

Okay. And then maybe you can share a bit more on the resi growth investments and if those have shifted in the last year or so as you've started making those. It's clearly working and it sounds like you're saying it's geared towards builders, yet R&R is the growth driver. So maybe you can kind of connect the dots there on the investments being more to builders, but the growth being from R&R.

Yeah, I think there's a couple things on this one, Steven. One, when we talk about investments, this has been a three-year journey. You know, the operational excellence of this business is what's allowed it to deliver the results. You know, in the last three years, we've moved to a front-end structure. We've brought in leaders from running each of these business units that bring those front-end points of view, and they're the ones leading the charge in each of the intimacy models in both new home and existing home. We've also made a significant amount of investments in product and innovation. Part of the success and our offset against the market is we are entering new categories and new areas. Specifically, an example would be wood stoves and DIYs. That's a large market we didn't have a place in. So we're making investments with go-to-markets there. It's allowing us to do it, as well as what Jeff said on the electric side. So I think you're seeing investments on the new home and the remodel side as well. And they just pace to how they come in through the revenue streams are not always at the same time.

Yeah, I think it's a great point. I also would, we're getting really good at, I think someone else mentioned it, the IBS show, you know, is a different look from what we've had in the past. We're connecting more to designers, you know, interior designers. I mean, there's a lot of focus there relative to design as well, Stephen. So it's kind of across the board. And I lump it all back to getting much closer and intimate with our geographic areas, design trends, you know, customer, you know, intimacy, and all the while working that with the changes VP talked about. It's been a It's been a couple three-year run, and it's starting to pay dividends, and we're going to keep investing.

Okay. That's all helpful color. Thank you.

Your next question comes from the line of Greg Burns with Isidori and Company. Please go ahead.

Morning. I was just hoping to get a little bit more color on the profit headwinds in the first quarter. What exactly are they and why are they going to be rolling off as we move through the balance of the year?

Yeah, Greg, it first starts with just the timing of the revenue. It's a little choppy on kind of how some of the contract side of the business, everything that Jeff talked about on the backdrop is all good and favorable for us. And, you know, if I look at even how orders came in in the fourth quarter, the workplace was actually up 5%. and Steelcase has actually shown up good order trends as well. It's just the timing of when that stuff's going to shift. So the revenue is the first piece, and we have a couple comps just from last year that we're up against. It's why we do believe it's a short-term issue and the full year is more important. I think on the expense side, there's really two things happening. Bringing in the Steelcase family, there's a comp timing that's hitting in the first quarter that you know, would have hit in the second quarter under their P&L. So that's a little bit expense pressure. And we're still balancing our investments. We're still making sure that, you know, we're thinking about the long game and the macroeconomics tells us still to keep investing. So I think the revenue growth, the timing of the expense and us continuing investment puts the short-term pressure. But more importantly, as we go through the year, you're going to see the double-digit EPS growth accelerate in Q2, Q3, and Q4, based on not only volume, but the visibility story we're talking about.

Okay, great. I think last quarter you called out some hospitality orders or the timing on hospitality orders. Could you just maybe update us on the hospitality market and if there's any change there?

Yeah, no, there is not. The hospitality market is solid. We were up against the comp, but Look, similar to the contract market, pipeline is strong. A business is making investments, performing well. They have a market leader position in room furniture. And so we like that business a lot, and we expect that it'll perform at or above prior year.

Okay. All right, great. Thank you.

Thanks. Thanks.

Your last question comes from the line of David McGregor with Longbow Research. Please go ahead.

Yes, good morning, everyone. Thanks for taking the questions. I guess from our dealer conversations this quarter, it's pretty clear the demand for design support has accelerated pretty dramatically. And so I'm just wondering if you can talk about the amount of work that you believe is developing in the pipeline, but maybe not yet in the order backlog, and how you're thinking about the timing of that work converting to orders and then to sales dollars.

Yeah, that's the question, isn't it, David? I think you're hearing the same stuff that we're seeing, which is there's a lot of activity. I believe it's real. And we're actually, just to get upstream on that a little bit, a lot of our businesses are deploying additional resources to help dealers and customers get things through the pipe because that does become a backlog area relative to the ability to get things designed. We're also working on some AI tools and some other digital tools to be able to help that as well for the long game. But look, historically, this business has had a pretty stable conversion kind of spec to order cycle. And post-COVID, it's been a little bit all over the map, and it hasn't really settled down. But I would tell you that once these things start, and you see the commitment, particularly on the larger projects, they come in. It's just sometimes they don't fall perfectly in the areas. And the other thing that we're seeing with the steel case acquisition is their exposure to the large stuff that, you know, once it gets lit, it goes. It's robust. Now, we're still working with them on how they view their timing and predict the the order to revenue cycles and the spec to order cycles. So I can't really give you a great answer on it's 90 days or it's 60 days or it's 30 days. But, you know, it's real and it's volatile relative to when it gets put in. But we're bullish.

Yeah. Yeah, it's out there. There's no doubt about it. My second question is really just around the discussion around synergies. And you talk about the 120 million. It seems like you're bumping the 26 expectation a little bit. And I'm mindful that you haven't made a change to the 120. But I guess the question is, is the better outlook on 26 a function of maybe incremental synergies that you've identified? Or is it really timing? And then I guess related to that is the whole discussion around commercial synergies, which I fully understand why you're You don't want to get into too much detail around that at this point. But I'm wondering if you can just discuss at a very high level kind of the actions you're taking to facilitate the eventual capture of those commercial synergies.

Yeah, I'll take the first part of that, David. The timing and the dollar of year one actually hasn't changed as it relates to the synergies. We had predicted a little bit more transition costs and some offsets in our original accretion analysis as you put the businesses together. It's just as a result, we'll just get a little bit more of that two-year look of $0.60 a little bit earlier. So I would tell you that our philosophy hasn't changed and our approach hasn't changed, you know, as we've set that number.

Yeah, and then on the synergies, yeah, you're right. It's early days. And what I would tell you, though, as I've traveled, you know, we're seeing some nice what I would call organics. uh, connections between our networks. To support revenue synergies, particularly with some of our open line brands. And so that, you know, when that formalizes more and gets more structured to it, we're going to kind of let it play out a little bit and see kind of how the natural system works. And then we can, we can look more at that, but look, I mean, it's gonna, we see, we see some organic pull. for some of that revenue. And it's early days, but we'll probably be talking about that down the road. But right now, I'm encouraged by what I see.

Can I squeeze maybe one more in, and just maybe for the model, if you will, working capital in 2026 and how we should be modeling working capital?

Yeah, we benefited with the pulling on the steel case balance sheets. We're actually sequentially improved a little bit. And just with the timing of expenses, we're going to need to make a little bit of an investment, David, but not significant, you know, when you think about the net working capital as we go into 2026 and beyond. But I think one more comment there, though. The operational discipline inside of the H&I piece, as we bring into that balance sheet, I would tell you there's opportunity as we get into the out years. Got it.

Thanks very much. Good luck with everything. Thank you.

That concludes our Q&A session. I will now turn the call back over to Mr. Langer for closing remarks.

Hey, thank you for joining us today and your interest in H&I. We look forward to speaking with you again in April. Have a great day.

Ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude our conference call for today. Thank you all for joining and you may now disconnect. Everyone have a great day.