Anywhere Real Estate Inc.

I would like to turn the conference over to any where senior vice president Alicia Swinney

will be making statements about this future results and other forward looking statements during this call. These statements are based on the current expectation and the current economic environment. Forward looking statements estimates and projections are inherently subject to significant economic competitive antitrust and other litigation regulatory and other uncertainties and contingencies many of which are beyond the control of management including among others industry and macroeconomic development as well as uncertainty related to the California wildfires. Actual results may differ materially from those expressed or implied in the forward looking statements. Effective December 31st 2024 the company updated its definition of operating EBITDA to include adjustments for non-cash stock based compensation and certain legal matters. These revisions enhance comparability with industry peers and all the figures discussed in this call and in our reported materials are adjusted to reflect this change. The includes the inclusion of these adjustments does not materially affect segment level trends or conclusions previously disclosed. Reconciliation of operating EBITDA to the most directly comparable gap measure are provided for all periods reported. The references made to January in these remarks are preliminary results for the month. January 2025 has the same number of business days as January 2024. We have three large expected one-time free cash flow headwinds in 2025 which total approximately one hundred and fifteen million dollars. The first headwind is our approved 83 and a half million litigation settlement. We have made 30 million dollar in payments. The remaining 53 and a half will be due when the appeals are resolved. The timing of the appeals is uncertain. Depending on the developments in the proceedings and we currently expect the payment to occur no earlier than mid 2025. Second the 1999 Senate legacy tax matter of approximately 40 million is due shortly after the notice is received and is anticipated in 2025. Third in January 2025 the company entered into a settlement of the Bumpus or TCPA litigation for 20 million dollars. We anticipate making this payment in Q3 2025 which is subject to preliminary and final court approval. For further discussion of these matters see our SEC periodic reports. The reference to core franchise in these remarks is the franchise segment excluding relocation and leads. Important assumptions and factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements are specified in our earnings release issued today as well as our annual and quarterly SEC filing. For those who listen to the rebroadcast of this presentation we remind you that the remarks made herein are as of today February 13th and have not been updated subsequent to the initial earnings call. Now I will turn the call over to our CEO and President Brian Schneider.

Thank you Alicia. Good morning everyone. I was recently reminded of a famous Da Vinci quote that states people of accomplishment rarely sit back and let things happen to them. They go out and happen to things. And this is exactly what Anywhere Real Estate did in 2024 and is going to do in 2025. In 2024 we delivered industry-leading EBITDA. We helped our agents and franchisees navigate both the tough housing market and the industry practice changes with competitive edge. And we continue to invest in and accelerate our strategy enhancing our market position to fuel growth and deliver long-term value for our stakeholders. As we take on 2025 we're prepared to lead with the same proactive energy to power our future success. Reflecting on our 2024 performance we generated 290 million of operating EBITDA up 35 million from the prior year and delivered 50 million of free cash flow 70 million excluding our 20 million dollar litigation settlement payment. We closed the year with strong momentum earning 52 million of operating EBITDA in the fourth quarter up 24 million year over year with 13 percent closed transaction volume growth. We exceeded our cost saving target by 25 percent achieving nearly 125 million in savings by simplifying automating and streamlining our operations. Now looking ahead we're focused on new technologies and automation to unlock new cost saving opportunities that really didn't exist before. And we have targeted another 100 million for 2025 reinforcing our commitment to permanently lowering our cost base and enhancing our earnings power. And we accelerated our aggressive AI agenda deploying generative AI at scale across many parts of our business to drive better experiences faster and at lower cost. Our efforts include both customer facing examples and internal solutions that are transforming how we operate. For example our listing Concierge product with its new AI integration drove significant adoption and was named best use of AI by a brokerage in 2024. New AI integration in our leads business is better identifying and targeting consumers most likely to become buyers. We are now able to better match these higher quality leads with our best performing agents faster than before and these leads are seeing a 40 plus percent improvement in conversion rate. And generative AI continues to improve our operations. We currently process about 15,000 documents a day to support our brokerage transactions. With generative AI we have the ability to process these with fewer than half the team in a fraction of the time with a significant reduction in error rates. And in our most recent pilot we've seen error rates fall to as low as one in five thousand documents processed. Now turning to growth we meaningfully expanded our luxury leadership across Sotheby's International Realty, Corcoran and Coldwell Bank for global luxury. Our luxury volume was up nearly 10 percent for the year and approximately 20 percent in the fourth quarter as we gained meaningful market share here. The most exciting thing about our luxury outperformance is the powerful unit growth which grew 4 percent year over year for the full year and by 12 percent year over year in Q4 both substantially exceeding the markets unit results. We continue to lead the industry selling the most luxury homes at all luxury price points. So for example we sold over a thousand ten plus million dollar homes in 2024 and have over a thousand ten million dollar plus listings in our current portfolio. Our Sotheby's Contreras auction business where we are paid both a buyer premium and a seller commission continues to grow and had a five million dollar plus average sales price in 2024. And this luxury success is driven by our distinctive value propositions and the talented agents who continue to flock to and stay with our great luxury brands. We grew our high margin franchise network adding 67 new franchisees in 2024 with 28 new franchisees in Q4. And in Q4 we were especially proud of the addition of a 400 agent long time independent family owned brokerage in the DC area to our growing Corcoran branch. We broadened our upward title joint venture from three to six states in 2024 with now over 20 franchise partners in place and three more states in the pipeline. We love the upward title momentum in the business because it opens new earnings opportunities for us and our franchisees enhances our value proposition and deepens our relationship with participating franchisees. We successfully implemented complex industry practice changes providing our network with clear guidance and innovative solutions giving them a significant competitive edge. For instance our key sign product enables agents to effortlessly create and collect digitally signed buyer agreements by simply scanning a client's license with their mobile device. And finally in late 2024 we launched Reimagine 25 to transform how we operate as a company going forward seizing new opportunities to unlock by generative AI and other emerging technologies to deliver better experiences for our customers faster and at lower cost. Reimagine 25 enables us as early adopters to jumpstart a more innovative future and will serve as the foundation of our continued efforts to lower our cost base. Turning to 2025 January started off much like the end of 2024 the housing market remains challenged especially with a lack of supply and real pressure on the number of unit transactions. However we had a robust January with 12 percent closed volume growth year over year driven by price gains and our open volume in January while softer was still positive at plus 4 percent also driven by price gains. Now even more important for 2025 there's two industry topics I want to be clear on. The first is NAR's clear cooperation policy which requires all listings to be put on the MLS within 24 hours of publicly marking a property. Our position is that the rule should be relaxed to provide more flexibility to sellers. However we oppose a blanket repeal as we believe transparency and access to all available inventory are in the best interests of both sellers and buyers. Those advocating for full repeal are primary advancing their own interests as there's clearly an opportunity for players with listing scale to create private off-market listing networks that only select agents can access which clearly could enhance near-term economics. We believe this is bad for consumers and we think it's best to do what's in the long-term interest of the consumer. However let me be clear we actually have the most listings in the industry across our brands. If the market evolves to favor private off-market listing networks we are ready to capitalize and we will ensure our agents and franchisees are never disadvantaged. The scale of Anywhere offers significant benefits and we're prepared to leverage all of our advantages to make sure our agents and franchisees have everything they need to succeed in a private listings world. The second topic is industry consolidation. We're seeing more firms looking to sell across brokerage adjacent services and PropTech. We're well positioned to explore these opportunities not only because of our liquidity but also due to the competitive edge that we offer. We believe our assets enable us to provide unique solutions with the most synergies, the easiest integration and ready to use technology. We would be excited to augment our growth through M&A opportunities at attractive economics and to be clear we will remain we will maintain a disciplined approach to profitability with deals that enhance the bottom line not just the top line. With that let me now turn over to Charlotte for more details on 2024.

Good morning everyone. We ended 2024 with numerous successes. We generated meaningful operating EBITDA. We over delivered on cost savings. We successfully navigated through unprecedented industry uncertainty and helped our franchisees and agents implement practice changes with minimal impact to our financials. We reduced and lengthened our capital structure with the repayment of our term loanee and some debt repurchases. We saw agent commission split trends continue to moderate for yet another year. We prudently managed our cash and we made significant progress on our strategy and exited the year with solid momentum. I will now highlight our Q4 and full year 2024 financial results. As Alicia mentioned in our opening we have revised how we report operating EBITDA to enhance comparability to industry peers and all the figures discussed in this call and in our reported materials reflect this change. Q4 revenue was 1.4 billion of 9 percent versus prior year and operating EBITDA was 52 million an increase of 86 percent versus prior year primarily due to higher transaction volume and cost savings partially offset by foreign currency impacts and relocation and some costs related to the acquisition of DOMA in our underwriter JV. Full year revenue was 5.7 billion up 1 percent versus prior year and operating EBITDA was 290 million an increase of 14 percent versus prior year primarily driven by higher operating margins as we continue to improve our cost structure. We realized nearly 125 million of cost savings which was about 25 percent higher than our initial target and achieved efficiencies across the enterprise with the majority coming from our own brokerage and title businesses as we further integrate and simplify the real estate transaction. Total operating marketing and G&A expenses for the year totaled 1.71 billion down 72 million versus prior year. About 40 percent of our realized cost savings were offset by growth related costs and other inflationary items. Full year free cash flow was 70 million before the 20 million litigation payment made in the second quarter. Our full year free cash flow delivery was about 30 million below our target due to the timing of a tax refund which was initially expected in Q4 but now anticipated in the first half of this year. Consistent with our capital allocation priorities we used our free cash flow to invest in our future and to pay down debt. We continued to make selective investments to drive growth including attracting new agents and franchisees at better margins expanding our technology platform with new products and services and streamlining our operations to deliver better experiences faster at lower costs. We also strengthened our balance sheet by pushing out maturities with no incremental interest expense and reducing overall debt by about 30 million. We will continue to opportunistically evaluate ways to improve our capital structure and I am confident in our current position with no maturities due before March 2026 and ample liquidity remaining on our revolver. It's important to highlight that this year's achievements are a continuation of our long term strategy to enhance our operating results and capital structure. Since 2019 including two of the worst years in housing in three decades we have delivered almost 700 million of realized cost savings and reduced overall debt by 930 million dollars. We have a proven track record of delivering on our commitments and achieving our goals exceeding the cost savings goals we put forth in our 2022 investor day. On top of these accomplishments we continue to push ahead with transformation through Reimagine 25 which Ryan mentioned. This ambitious multi-year transformation effort aims to set us up for greater growth and success in the future. It will contribute to our savings program for 2025 and beyond leveraging technology to reduce manual processes and importantly enhance our value proposition and unlock growth opportunities. One example is innovating around agent support delivery using cutting edge technology to reduce in person interactions and physical resources and instead focus on enhanced ready now support throughout the transaction. Now let me go into more detail on our full year business segment performance. Our Anywhere Brands business which includes leads and relocation generated 521 million in operating EBITDA. Operating EBITDA was down 6 million primarily due to foreign currency impacts in our relocation business. We remain confident in our core franchise business which further expanded in the quarter and its robust margins. Our Anywhere Advisors operating EBITDA was negative 93 million an increase of 42 million versus prior year driven by higher revenue and lower operating and marketing costs. This business generated 226 million in operating EBITDA before the transfer of inter-company royalties and marketing fees paid to our franchise business. Agent commission splits were .3% in 2024. Of 14 basis points versus the prior year representing one of the best year over year results we've seen in a while. And our Q4 agent commission split rate was also .3% down seven basis points year over year and down four ten basis points sequentially from the prior year. This marks 11 consecutive quarters with our agent commission split rate about 80% and this is all despite adding over 2500 producing agents in 2024 underscoring our strong agent value proposition. Anywhere integrated services operating EBITDA was negative 13 million an improvement of 3 million versus prior year. Operating EBITDA benefited year over year due to increases in both purchase and refi units partially offset by increased labor costs and our continued investment to roll out upward title. Equity and earnings was impacted by a $5 million decrease in our underwriter JV primarily related to the DOMA acquisition in Q4. Before discussing specific guidance I want to address the California wildfires. We are actively monitoring the devastating impact in the greater Los Angeles area with our primary focus on the safety of our people. Our hearts go out to our employees affiliated agents and franchisees who have been affected and forced to leave their homes. As of today about 1000 agents and a few of our own brokerage and title offices in that area have been impacted. We are proud of our team's resilience and our ability to seamlessly service our clients to impart to our virtual service delivery model. And while the financial impact on this region is uncertain we do know that the effects of this broad-based devastation will be felt in Q1 and beyond. Now turning to 2025. Given what we know today we expect operating EBITDA for the full year to be about $350 million with the biggest swing factor being the housing market itself which is inherently volatile. We expect to deliver about 100 million in cost savings this year which will be offset in part by inflationary pressures and investments as we look to make significant progress transforming our business. We have proven our free cash flow delivery remains strong in both good and bad markets and we anticipate our 2025 free cash flow excluding one-time items to be similar to 2024. Free cash flow like EBITDA is driven by the overall housing market and may be impacted by additional investments we make to drive growth and enhance our technology strategy. Our fourth quarter and full year results highlight Anywhere's financial discipline. We start 2025 with determination and confidence reinforced by industry leading profitability and solid cash flow generation. I am proud of what we have accomplished and even more excited for the future as we truly transform our business accelerate growth and lead the industry forward. Let me now turn the call back to Ryan for some questions. Thank

you Charlotte. Anywhere Real Estate's proven our ability to deliver results regardless of market conditions. In 2024 we navigated the housing market with resilience and determination generating meaningful operating EBITDA and free cash flow investing in future growth over delivering on cost savings and adapting to unprecedented industry changes. In 2025 Anywhere Real Estate will focus on executing our strategic agenda reimagining how we operate and leveraging our competitive advantages to help us to drive growth outperform the market and deliver value for our agents franchisees and shareholders. The future is full of opportunities and Anywhere Real Estate is ready to lead the industry to what's next. With that we will take your questions.

Thank you. If you would like to ask a question please press star one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question simply press star one again. Please ensure that you're not on speakerphone and your phone is not on mute when called upon. Thank you. Your first question comes from the line of Matthew Boulay with Barclays. Your line is open.

Morning everyone. Thank you for taking the questions. I guess first wanted to touch on the operating EBITDA outlook for 2025 the 350 million. That's a simple question. What are some of the underlying assumptions you're making within that around I guess transaction volumes, commission splits, commission rates. Obviously we got the you know the cost reductions in there but just kind of any other pieces you can help us bridge to that EBITDA. Thank you.

Yeah. So as I mentioned the single biggest swing factor is going to be the housing market and there's some pretty wide ranges in industry forecasts right now. So you know we've had to take a bit of a call on that. We're going to watch it together. We'll update quarterly as if anything changes in our assumptions on the housing market but because the industry forecasts are so kind of wide as they normally are at this point in the year I don't think it's smart to peg to any specific number. But obviously we are giving guidance for you know for the first time in a while and so you know we feel good about you know where we sit today. We gave the numbers on cost savings. You know I think you can see over the last few years about the net impact of the cost savings. So hopefully you can use some of the last year's analogs and some of the remarks I've made about you know what the add backs are and investments and inflation to impact that. We feel good about the splits. You know we've had a lot of 11 consecutive quarters around 80 80 percent for the commission's list. Those will obviously vary with volume as well. But again 11 consecutive quarters is part of the reason you know the consistency in that that is enabling us to put a pin on some guidance for this year. As far as ABCR you know we're the only ones who do report that and the numbers that we've reported have been relatively consistent since the changes in the process. If things change you know we'll we'll update things but what we're seeing is relatively consistent on ABCR. So obviously a lot of volatility in housing in general that I think the piece parts that we've laid out there's a lot of there that has been pretty consistent our cost savings and commission splits specifically. And so you know we'll we'll continue to update you as the quarters go on but feeling good about where we ended the year and feeling good about our momentum as we start the year.

OK got it. I guess what I'm hearing is a lot of consistency and I guess correct me if I'm wrong but second question you know the comments you made around clear cooperation you know kind of just when you when you talked about a relaxed clear cooperation I guess my question is is what kind of what is that middle ground that that you'd be looking for kind of what exactly are you advocating for and sort of how would you how are you going to approach this you know in the coming weeks and months. Thank you.

Yeah so you know our our our brokerage leader Sue Yannick and she runs our own franchise brokerage in a lot of ways she has the biggest job in real estate. She just did an editorial taking your question on exactly trying to lay out look you know the most frustrating thing about the debate going on in our industry is it's it's like an extreme debate either it must stay the same or it must be totally repealed. And so what Sue put out was some thoughts about hey you know there are places where you may want to relax it a little bit for sellers it doesn't have to be 24 hours etc. But you do need to preserve the fact that over time you want all sellers and buyers to be able to see all the inventory it's to both of their benefit. And so you know we actually think the two extremes are both bad outcomes. And so Sue put that out earlier this week we'll continue to advocate for that. You know we're one of the only companies that has a dedicated government relations you know team in D.C. And obviously you know our trade group has some issues and you know we got to take more leadership. But but that's kind of where we're going. And I thought Sue's editorial was well done Matt. And you know at the end of the day you know the two extremes are both have some real issues with them. The current extreme and the mandatory nature is a problem. We don't like mandatory things. We've been telling people to relax mandatory rules for a number of years and you know since people didn't listen to us on the participation rule we we all paid dearly for that. But on the flip side again you know just to kind of total repeal and moving the world to private listings network I don't think is good for the consumer. So you know we're in the relax not repeal world. We've laid our position out in a couple of different forums now and we'll continue to advocate for that. But let's be very clear like we are ready if you know if somebody if the world goes to private listings you know we will we will not let our agents be disadvantaged and we have more listings to make into private listings than anybody does. You know I think that's a short sighted way for our industry to go. But you know we have we have we've got the technology ready. We have the people ready. We've thought through all the issues of it and you know we're ready but it's not our recommendation.

Got it. Well thank you Ryan and Charlotte. Good luck guys. Thank you Matt.

The next question comes from Ryan McKevaney with Selman. Your line is open.

Hey thank you guys. Good morning. I wanted to ask on the franchise side so it looks like the press release mentions you added 28 franchisees in 4Q and 67 in 24. I guess maybe if you could talk to pipeline or interest for the franchisees heading into 25. And I guess I'm curious is the pipeline or even those who have who have joined the network skewed towards established independent brokerages just converting to to your brands or these kind of new you know new players becoming franchisees. Thank you.

Yeah look you know we like the pipeline. It feels good kind of consistent with kind of success we've had. You know I think the combination Ryan of the litigation in 23 and these practice changes in 24 have helped us on this dimension. Right. You know you know the value proposition we offer to franchisees has a lot of good things in it including the lead side the brand side you know some of the back office stuff etc. But you know there are a lot of people who really you know realize the power of kind of being part of someone who can both take care of you better in litigation but also help navigate you know industry practice changes. So we had you know a number of existing franchisees you know obviously join us and that happens today. We just added some new ones in multiple states in the last two weeks that have all been public. And so that's been helpful and then others have seen things you know we've had people join us because they've liked this upward title thing that we've done right as they're looking for new opportunities they can get into that if they're part of our ecosystem. And so you know while we always have a few people who kind of start out from nothing as franchisees when we talk about the 67 or the 28 we're talking about you know you know established companies of sizes including the 400 agent Corcoran franchisee down in D.C. now who you know have joined joined our company.

That's very helpful. Thank you. And Charlotte just I think a clarification I kind of missed this and I'll check the transcript later but maybe you can remind us. I think you made a comment about a tax refund that was expected last year that's now going to come this year and potentially that is a benefit to EBITDA. I might have totally misheard that but maybe you can revisit what that what that comment was.

It's just a benefit to free cash flow it doesn't impact the EBITDA. So it's an explanation that like we had given guidance that we expected our free cash flow in 2024 excluding one time items and other things to be about 100 million. And the tax refund was anticipated last year and that's the reason why we now delivered free cash flow at 70. And it's just a timing thing and we've even already gotten notice from the IRS that we should expect part of that already in the first quarter. So it's just a free cash flow timing thing. Nothing to do with EBITDA.

Okay. And on the on the guide for free cash flow the 70 reference is kind of you know ballpark the target we should be thinking about for 25.

So I did say similar to prior year so yes.

Okay. Thank you very much. And it's

excluding those one time items that Alicia referenced in her opening remarks.

Right. Okay. Got it. Thank you very much.

Sure.

The next question comes from John Campbell with Stevens. Your line is open.

Hey guys. Good morning. Congrats on a great close to the year.

Thanks John.

Sure. Ryan I appreciate your clarity and the clear message on CCP. Just assuming that you know for some reason consumers end up being okay with the private networks and there's greater fragmentation. Obviously you called out your industry leading number of listings. So that's obviously a great start. You also mentioned a second ago that you have the technology ready. Obviously your largest competitor out there has pushed a new consumer app and seems to be lining up their site as more of a portal. I appreciate from a competitive standpoint you might not want to show all your cards here but maybe just talk to high level how you look to leverage your leading position.

Well look I mean you know you're right. We're not going to show our cards on this call. We'll show it to our agents franchisees first and you know that in the market. But look like the world's not that complicated right. You know if you want to do a private listing network it's just not that complicated. So you could map out exactly what we would you know you know provide and have and kind of corral you know across our own and franchise brokers networks and then how you know agents and consumers would interact with. So it's not that complicated. And again my thesis and my real public message is both you know we think that's a bad way for the industry to go. But if it goes there you know we're going to be you know not only are we ready but we you know we think we do frankly pretty well relative to anybody. So you know so that's a place that we're just you know very focused on. And you know but again you know over time if consumers if buyers can't you know easily get access to all the inventory I just think that's bad for sellers in terms of getting the best price on your house. I also think there's some fair housing issues on that. And if you're a seller and you can't get access to how other homes sold at what price hurts your ability to price your home. So again I just don't think it's a great place for the industry to go. But you know we obviously have to you know be prepared and my message is not only are we prepared but you know we've got assets that would be you know you know advantageous on all of our competitors we believe just starting with the number of listings.

Yeah that's a great color up appreciate all that. And then Charlotte back to the 350 million EBOT guidance you know you mentioned the wide dispersion and industry forecast we're certainly seeing that as well. But you know just given how tied the P&L is to housing I'm thinking you probably do have an internal forecast you're going with. I'm hoping you can maybe shed some light on that or maybe just talk to a rule of thumb sensitivity for I don't know every 100 bits or so of volume swings.

Yeah we're not really coming off of what we've said in the past around you know sort of like the 15 million mark for the percentage of change and growth does depend on the unit volume and the lower the units you know sort of the lower the impact is because of title. But you know if you think about I think you can actually probably if you look through the other assumptions I've given you you could probably even come up to what our own internal forecast is within a couple of percentage points. So

and John just to comment on your math question here because you know we believe in you guys. Just know that we believe in you and you know this is the first time Charlotte and I have ever in the month of February given you a full year number right in the past we've always kind of gone with the philosophy of hey we're going to give you as many of the piece parts as we can. You know you put your volume forecast in do the math and you come up with a number. Right this year we thought you know we've heard your feedback others and we thought let's try something a little bit different. Which is you know we're giving you our view you know and as Charlotte said we'll update it every quarter. Boy this housing market's the thing if you look back in time it kind of really changes the world between February and the full year results often. But you know you know we're we hope this is you know you know interesting and helpful. And again the nice thing is we have you know three more bites at the apple to update you as kind of the year evolved. But you know it is a different approach and you know it'll be very interesting to see your feedback on you know does it work better than what we had been doing on this dimension. But we're excited to try it. But it but we also recognize it might leave you a teeny bit frustrated that you know you know we're not giving you every single piece to add up to it. But like you know that's a little more of turning it around in the old way. So anyway we're excited and we believe you guys will do great with it.

Appreciate that guys.

Thanks John.

Once again ladies and gentlemen if you have a question it is star one on your telephone keypad. Your next question comes from Tommy joint with KBW. Your line is open.

Hey good morning guys thanks for taking the questions. Yeah so Ryan last quarter you gave some interesting commentary around you know home buyers given a choice of signing different agent engagement agreements be it to look at one single house or you know part of a longer home buying journey. Do you have an update on any of that or any data points around that and kind of what those compensations look like?

Yeah sure happy to do it. Partly because this is a chance to say you know I was a little bit wrong you know you know we rolled out these kind of five different buyer agreements Tommy you know and you talked to some of them right single house multiple house you know just go on a home tour and then kind of the classic you know six months you know we're an exclusive relationship agreement right and part of the reason we rolled out the five is we weren't sure how consumers would react and you know we didn't want people to just have a yes no choice on one agreement. We wanted them some options and the data not just into November when we last talked or excuse me October when we last talked the data through January is it's almost all people signing the six month exclusive agreement north of 80 percent of our buyers are signing that agreement and that just blows me away and it's awesome and so you know frankly we're probably going to end up discontinuing some of the other ones that just don't get much usage or much traction because consumers aren't really interested in them and let's reduce the complexity and all that kind of stuff and it's a testament to the power of the value that agents provide and I don't think that stat by the way is unique to anywhere. I don't have anyone else's data but you know when I talk to you know agents at other firms and I talk to you know you know people in our industry I think other people are getting you know using those same things you know more than 50 percent of the time and it comes back to I do think that the agents are doing a very good job articulating their value to buyers and going on that journey to kind of make these people's lives better together and so you know the data has only gotten stronger on the use of the six month exclusive since I talked to you in October and we looked at it through you know mid-January or so is the last time I looked at it late January data kind of thing and so really excited by that. Still glad we were thoughtful about trying the different things to be prepared you never know how the world's going to go but it's gone in a way that's really consistent with agents adding a value and communicating their value well and consumers have voted with their feet very excited.

Got it and just on the same point I'm sure it's a bit tough to track but do you have any sense around if consumers are shopping around a bit more maybe perhaps taking you know the six month exclusive agreement from an anywhere agent comparing it to you know competitors when they're beginning this process or any data around that?

I think the shopping is no different than it used to be but I think the shopping happens before you get to the point you're talking about right. I don't think anybody's take I don't think a lot of people are taking two physical agreements and comparing them and then picking right. I think consumers do a lot of their agent networking and interviewing and everything before they get to that conversation right and then the people who already have relationships with agents from my talking to agents they haven't seen a difference in their existing relationships you know looking at other people in terms of like you know the percent of people they do repeat business with kind of thing so I think the shopping happens but I think the shopping happens more upstream than at the kind of let's negotiate and sign the buyer agreement point Matt or Tommy excuse me.

Got it okay and then just quickly switching over you sound a little more constructive on the acquisition opportunity in the year ahead. Did you envision that getting funded with you know equity or debt or is there enough cash flow generation you know not going toward some of those one-off items and eventual debt reductions to fund those opportunities?

Look I mentioned our liquidity I don't think we're going to be an equity buyer I think we're a cash buyer if we're going to buy stuff typically you know we got tons of liquidity as Charlotte kind of talked about you know we have positive free cash flow. The other thing is remember and I reference this when you look at our ability to combine with others especially in the brokerage area we have the most synergies and those synergies have two interesting things one is you can get a bunch of them in year one in these deals right the other thing you know from a covenant standpoint our covenants give us very good benefits to synergies of deals even if they're unrealized so you know you know they got to be good deals of course and we've seen some some deals in the market that we wouldn't do but but boy you know yeah we we think we could do some good stuff especially as kind of the market feels like it's changing you know after going into a third tough year you can see a little more no-mask happening you know in in in not just brokerage but in some adjacent services and you can definitely see it in PropTech I get that call every week basically. Thanks Ryan. Multiple times a month.

The final question comes from Nahom Tesfazki with JP Morgan your line is open.

Hey guys thanks for taking the question just one on my end and I guess going back to the guidance how much does the adjustment for you know non-cash compensation and legal matters impact the 2025 guidance of 350 million or I guess another way to say it I guess better put is how much does that help the guide you know compared to the old definition?

So I think what you'll see in the press release is the prior two years it's a relatively small number and in 2023 that number was 12 I believe on the full year and 17 in 2024 so it's not a material impact in the past two years.

And the way I think about it just looking at that information in the press release is you know you know you know 24 is a pretty tough housing market but even with all those adjustments that you mentioned you know you know you know we were able to grow our EBITDA by 35 million and then in 25 you know it's 60 million of EBITDA growth with all those you know adjustments apples to apples now so it's a kind of 60 million growth apples to apples on that stuff so there's no you know you know headwind or tailwind in the 60 million growth.

Got it that makes sense thank you.

This concludes the question and answer session and we'll conclude today's conference call. Thank you for joining you may now disconnect.