Korn Ferry

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Korn Ferry second quarter fiscal year 2024 conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Following the prepared remarks, we will conduct a question and answer session. As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded for replay purposes. We have also made available in the investor relations section of our website at KornFerry.com a copy of the financial presentation that we will be reviewing with you today. Before I turn the call over to your host, Mr. Gary Burnison, Let me first read a cautionary statement to investors. Certain statements made in the call today, such as those related to future performance, plans and goals, constitute forward-looking statements within the meeting of Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Although the company believes the expectations reflected in such forward-looking statements are based on reasonable assumptions, investors are cautioned not to place undue reliance on such statements. Actual results in future periods may differ materially from those currently expected, or desired because of a number of risks and uncertainties which are beyond the company's control. Additional information concerning such risks and uncertainties can be found in the release relating to this presentation and in the periodic and other reports filed by the company of the SEC, including the company's annual report for fiscal year 2023 and in the company's soon to be filed quarterly report for the quarter ended October 31st, 2023. Also, some of the comments today may reference non-GAAP financial measures such as a constant currency amounts, EBITDA, and adjusted EBITDA. Additional information concerning those measures, including reconciliations to the most direct comparable gap financial measures, is contained in the financial presentation and earnings release relating to this call, both of which are posted in the investor relations section of the company's website at www.cornferry.com. With that, I'll turn the call over to Mr. Bernson. Please go ahead, Mr. Bernson.

Okay, good afternoon, everybody, and thank you for joining us in Season's Greetings. The team's going to get into this in more detail, but there's no doubt that the strategy is working. Despite a softer labor market, our results demonstrate the resiliency of our business. Through a marquee and regional account strategy, multiple talent product offerings, and And cross-referring those solutions to our clients, we generated $704 million in fee revenue in the quarter, which was down about 3% year over year. Despite a persistent uneven economic environment, earnings and profitability held steady sequentially as we delivered a 14% adjusted EBITDA margin. And also, we announced this morning that Reflecting that we've got a much different company today and the confidence that we have in our organization, we increased our dividend by 83%. I'm proud of our firm and of our colleagues. We continue to develop increasingly relevant solutions in a rapidly changing world. In particular, our consulting and digital businesses now generate almost 40% of our top line. And in fact, digital... achieved an all-time record revenue at constant currency during the quarter. You know, to put all this in perspective, I want to take a step back for a moment. When I started with our firm, we were a couple hundred million dollar company. Today, our firm generates several billion dollars in revenue. In fact, our top line today is about 40% higher than pre-pandemic levels. and now we're at the threshold of even greater opportunity. More importantly, we have the possibility of accelerating the trajectory of thousands of organizations. At the same time, we have to acknowledge that most of the business world is in the midst of a multi-quarter cyclical reset. It has become clear that the economic environment will continue to be challenging in the months ahead. Countries have been transitioning from almost three decades of cheap money to substantially higher interest rates. This reset will require companies and our clients to not only adapt, but adjust, optimize, and innovate, which creates opportunity for Korn Ferry. We have a proven track record of accelerating through many economic turns. The crucial aspect is breaking before the turn and accelerating through it. In times like these, that's how great companies make their best moves, and Korn Ferry is a great company. Our vision to become the premier organizational consulting firm is working, and our diversification strategy continues to positively influence our performance. We have a household brand operating in every major geographic region of the world with world-class IP and talent, unparalleled client access, and a pristine balance sheet with substantial financial muscle. We power through cycles and are poised to seize opportunity with a three-point strategy. Number one, optimize. Number two, innovate. And number three, consolidate. I'll now turn the call over to Bob, who will cover all of this in more detail. Bob?

Great. Thanks, Gary, and good afternoon or good morning. Similar to Gary, I'm very pleased with our performance this quarter. You know, it clearly demonstrates that our broader diversification strategy and investment thesis continues to play out. Our consulting and digital businesses both grew year over year, and our recently acquired interim businesses were more durable than our permanent placement talent acquisition solutions. Now, this intentional diversification into strategically aligned capabilities provides additional cross-line of business referral opportunities and more relevant scalable solutions for our marquee and regional accounts. It also contributes to not only more durable fee revenues, but to increased earning stability, as shown in the company's sequentially stable adjusted EBITDA despite an increasingly complex and uncertain macroeconomic backdrop. I'm also pleased with our cost management, as the company's adjusted EBITDA margin marked the second consecutive quarter of continued sequential improvement. Additionally, at the end of the second quarter, we took actions to right-size our workforce capacity to better align it with current business realities, as well as to take advantage of productivity gains we're realizing in this new world of work. These actions will help us to continue with our adjusted EBITDA margin improvement by driving approximately $110 to $120 million in overall annual cost saves. Finally, and going back to the point Gary ended with, we do plan to continue to seize opportunities in the current environment with our three-point strategy. He said optimize, innovate, and consolidate. Let's start with optimize first. We're going to continue to drive productivity by leveraging our cost base. In fact, if you take Q2 of FY24 and compare that to Q3 of FY20, and that was a quarter right before the pandemic, our fee revenue per employee is up 23%. And if you were to pro forma a full quarter of the impact from our recent restructuring actions, it would actually be up 33%. Now let me turn to Innovate. We will continue to build modes around our solutions and services using our proprietary data, content, and IP, which truly differentiates us from our competitors, who generally have to rely on third-party data and insights. We are also actively embedding AI into our existing solutions and services to drive greater delivery efficiencies, along with greater client impact. Last, we'll continue with our investments to monetize our data, content, and IP through our digital business. Now I'll touch upon consolidate, where our efforts are going to be focused on continuing our investment in strategically aligned, less cyclical, faster-growing, enlargeable, addressable markets. With all of our recently acquired interim businesses now being fully integrated and the increasing relevance of our services and solutions in the world today, we will continue to leverage our existing client relationships and our colleagues across all lines of business will drive top-line fee-revenue synergies through expanded client penetration. Lastly, we'll continue to expand our leadership and professional development business by replicating our success in delivering leadership coaching at scale at an increasing number of clients and leveraging this success into a broader leadership development outsourcing offering. Now, let me turn the call over to Greg, who will take you through some overall company financial highlights.

Okay, thanks, Bob. In the second quarter, global free revenue was $704 million, which was above the high end of our guidance range and down 3% year over year, or down 5% at constant currency. My line of business, consulting and digital, which combined were approximately 40% of consolidated revenue, continued to be stable, each growing approximately 3% in the second quarter. For talent acquisition, permanent placement fee revenue continued to moderate from post-pandemic highs, with executive search, RPO, and professional search down 7%, down 18%, and down 29%, respectively. Fee revenue in the second quarter for interim services was also more stable. down sequentially approximately $2 million, or 2%. Consolidated new business in the second quarter, excluding RPO, was down 3% year-over-year at actual FX rates and down 4% at constant currency. Consulting new business in the second quarter was strong, up 10% year-over-year, driven by EMEA, which was up 34%. Digital new business was up sequentially in the second quarter, but down 15% measured year over year due primarily to a strong fiscal Q2, which included several large contract wins. Similarly, RPO had a strong quarter with new business at $141 million. New business in the second quarter for executive search was down 10% year over year, and for professional search in interim was up 1% year over year. In line with guidance, second quarter earnings and profitability remained sequentially stable. Adjusted EBITDA in the second quarter was $99 million, and despite moderating fee revenue, strong cost control drove adjusted EBITDA margin to 14%, up 30 basis points sequentially. Finally, our adjusted fully diluted earnings per share in the second quarter were 97 cents, down 46 cents, or 32% year-over-year. Adjusted fully diluted earnings per share excludes $70 million, or $1.01 per share, of restructuring charges related to the realignment of our workforce and integration and acquisition costs associated with our recent acquisition. Gap diluted loss per share in the second quarter was minus 4 cents. Our investable cash position at the end of the second quarter remained strong at $464 million. Through the end of the second quarter, we deployed $65 million of cash using $28 million for share repurchases and dividends, $28 million for capital expenditures, and $9 million for debt services. Now I'll turn the call over to Tiffany to review our operating segments in more detail.

Thanks, Greg. Starting with KS Digital, global fee revenue in the second quarter was $97 million, which was up 3% year-over-year and up 1% at constant currency. Digital subscription and license fee revenue in the second quarter was $32 million, which was approximately 33% of fee revenue for the quarter and up 12% versus Q2 of last year. The strategy of multi-year subscriptions has created some resiliency in digital's revenue as this quarter marked a near all-time high in fee revenue for the segment. Global new business for digital was $95 million, with $34 million, or 36%, of the total tied to subscription and license sales. Although the quarterly timing of larger new business projects is different than last year, the overall pipeline for digital remains strong. as we head into the back half of our fiscal year. For consulting, fee revenue in the second quarter was $178 million, which was up approximately 3% year-over-year and up 1% at constant currency. Fee revenue growth was strongest in organizational strategy, which increased 19% year-over-year, and in assessment and succession, which grew 7% year-over-year. The average hourly bill rate continues to climb, now at $413 an hour, which is up over $42 an hour from just one year ago. Additionally, global new business for consulting in the second quarter was up 10% year-over-year, with continued double-digit growth in EMEA resulting from large organizational strategy wins in the UK and Middle East. Total fee revenue in professional search and interim in the second quarter was $138 million, up 3.6 million, or 3%, versus Q2 of FY23. Breaking down the quarter, year-over-year fee revenue growth was mostly driven by the interim business, which offset moderation in the permanent placement portion of the segment. Interim services fee revenue grew to 82 million, up from 55 million in the same quarter of the prior year, driven in part by the most recent acquisitions. The average interim hourly bill rate has increased to an average of $126 per hour, up from $107 just one year ago. Permanent placement fee revenue declined by $23 million to $56 million year-over-year, down 29% at actual and down 30% at constant currency. The professional search and interim new business increased 1% in the quarter compared to last year, driven by growth in EMEA and aided by the most recent acquisitions. Moving on to recruitment process outsourcing. New business for the second quarter was $141 million, comprised of $53 million of new logos and $88 million of renewals. And total revenue under contract at the end of the quarter was approximately $681 million. Fee revenue totaled $88 million, which was down $20 million, or 18% year over year, and down approximately 20% at constant currency. Fee revenue is impacted by a moderation in hiring volume in the existing base of contracts. We see this slowdown as transitory and believe RPO is well-positioned to benefit when hiring returns to more normalized levels in the base and the larger, more recent wins begin converting to revenue at their full contract value. Although the quarterly new business can be choppy at times, the pipeline remains strong as RPO continues to win new business with a differentiated service offering in the marketplace. Finally, global fee revenue for executive search in the second quarter was $203 million and, as expected, experienced a year-over-year decline of 9% at constant currency compared to the accelerated growth rates during the pandemic recovery last year. Demand continued to moderate across most regions, with the exception of Latin America. Global new business in the second quarter for executive search was down 10% year over year and down approximately 11% at constant currency. I will now turn the call back over to Bob to discuss our outlook for the third quarter of fiscal 24.

Great. Thanks, Tiffany. November new business came in line with our expectations and the normal seasonal patterns. And assuming no new major pandemic-related lockdowns or further changes, in worldwide geopolitical conditions, economic conditions, financial markets, and foreign exchange rates. We expect fee revenue in the third quarter of fiscal 24 to range from $645 million to $665 million. Our adjusted EBITDA margin to improve to approximately 15%, and our consolidated adjusted diluted earnings per share to range from $0.96 to $1.02. Finally, we expect our gap-diluted earnings per share in the third quarter to range from $0.87 to $0.95. Now, in closing, as I look across the organization, we're extremely well positioned in terms of what the world is looking for. Everything today is about talent. There's a war for talent. Companies are looking for better talent, different talent, talent with IT skills, and so on. The collection of our IT data and content woven through our core and integrated solutions, really creates a unique and symbiotic ecosystem of service offerings that touch every aspect of an employee's engagement with his or her employer. We're the only company in the world that has this collection of IP data, content, and assets. It really gives us a great platform to help our clients synchronize their strategy and talent to drive superior performance, conquer change, coming out stronger on the other side. With that, we would be glad to answer any questions you may have.

Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, please press 1 then 0 on your telephone keypad. You may withdraw your question at any time by repeating the 1, 0 command. If you're using a speakerphone, please pick up the handset before pressing the numbers. Once again, if you have a question, you may press 1 then 0 at this time. One moment, please, for the first question. The first question comes from George Tong with Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Hi, thanks. Good morning. New business XRPO inflected to a decline in the quarter, but looks like November is following normal seasonal patterns. Can you talk a little bit more about new business trends that you saw by month during and exiting the quarter, and if November trends suggest that we've essentially formed a bottom in terms of new business?

The new business trends over the last five months have been pretty flat. That's number one. And it does appear that search has stabilized, particularly taking a look at even the last four quarters. October was substantially better than September, which we would expect. And November came in, which is November is a seasonal month. And it came in exactly where we thought. So it's been fairly stable, pretty consistent. in terms of trends.

Got it. That's helpful. You additionally talked about increasing cross-referrals among large marquee and regional accounts. Can you provide some metrics on the extent of cross-selling and where you're seeing the most amount of cross-selling? Which divisions?

Well, the cross-selling, you know, look, the marquee and regional accounts is the anchor of our strategy. It's... 38% of our top line. And in fact, this quarter, it was 38% of new business. And if you look, you know, overall cross referrals right now, I think year to date or something around 25% of the company's top line. And in some businesses, the percentage is higher and some it's lower. When we look at RPO, it's tended to be a very high percentage, substantially higher than 25%. We've certainly been very, very thrilled by seeing the level of cross-referrals into our new interim business that we didn't have three years ago. And then that continues to bear fruit. So, you know, at parts of the business, it's higher and some lower and, you know, that's the anchor of our strategy to have multiple panel offerings, to have reasons to talk to clients, and to drive deeper impact and change the trajectory of literally, you know, thousands of organizations.

Very helpful. Thank you.

Next question comes from the line of Mark Marcon with Baird. Please go ahead.

Hey, good morning or good afternoon, depending on where you are. I have several questions. One, you know, Gary, you started out by basically talking about, you know, hey, we've got this big reset in terms of getting ready for, you know, changes in rates. From your conversations and with your top consultants and the feedback that they're giving you, you know, how are they viewing this reset? Like how long do they think it's going to take? How is that impacting talent plans? What are you just seeing from that perspective? Because things have been stable for the last five months, and in addition to that, we are seeing some chatter about Goldilocks and maybe a soft landing instead of an expected recession. So I'm just wondering how that all melts together.

Well, you know, in my conversations with clients and our consultants, it varies. You know, it varies depending on where you are. There's parts of the world that are investing heavily, and there's others that are not. You know, look, you step back, and this is my read of things, is that, number one, there's no question the labor market is softer. I mean, you know, a couple years ago the United States was producing – you know, like 600,000 jobs a month. Last year it was 400,000. This year it's 200,000. And October is probably like 100,000. So there's no question that, you know, coming off this, you know, incredible surge after the pandemic that the labor market has moderated. I would expect deflation. I think that is going to happen. Corn and wheat, prices are back to pre pandemic levels. Um, you look at companies results over the past few quarters and there's a consistent theme, you know, volume down, prices up, um, package shrinking. Um, I, I would expect that there to be deflationary pressures broadly, broadly speaking. Um, and I'm certainly not an economist, um, But I would think that central banks are going to hold pretty firm in where the rates are for the next several months. And, you know, mid to late 24, maybe there's some relief in that. But I think that, you know, this environment has taken companies time to adapt and adjust. And I think that's what you're seeing with a higher cost to carry. But it's just clear to me that prices have to come down you know, overall. Great.

I appreciate the perspective. With regards to capital allocation, so, you know, congratulations on increasing the dividend. I know that that's been a point of discussion with the board for quite some time. Can you talk a little bit about the dynamics that led to such a strong increase in terms of the dividend and just, you know, how fast both the top management as well as the board, what changed in terms of the thinking and how should we interpret that with regards to, you know, further investments in terms of areas like interim or professional search?

Confidence, confidence, confidence. I mean, that's the answer. We have a completely different company today than we did several years ago. and we have confidence in our ability to generate sustainable profits. It is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a deviation from our strategy. We have a multibillion-dollar opportunity ahead of us. We're going to continue to make investments, to do acquisitions, but it reflects confidence in what the business is today, and you can see it in the results. I mean, you can see a soft labor market, and clearly the perm recruiting side of the business is, would ebb and flow with that. But you look at the other parts, and it's buoyed. You know, it's substantially lifted, the firm's results. So it's all around confidence. And, you know, you look at our growth rate over 20 years, it's probably about 14%. I think the last 10 years it's 12%. Forty percent of that has been M&A. Sixty percent has been organic. We're continuing to think that will be the playbook going forward. It could change if there's a big opportunity that comes our way. And that's one of the reasons why we took the actions we did, unfortunately, is to make sure that we're breaking and that we can make investments and deliver returns to shareholders. So we think that a balanced approach is the best way. Number one is to invest in the business, as we've done. But we also have to be mindful of returning cash to shareholders, either through dividends or stock buybacks.

Really appreciate that. I'm sure the shareholders do as well. With regards to the separation and the restructuring that's occurring, which sections are being impacted the most from that perspective in terms of when we take a look at the overall headcount reduction and that 110 to $120 million in terms of cost reductions, which, which divisions are being impacted the most there?

It was, it was fairly broad based and it, and it kind of follows the trend in new business. Look, this is, you know, something that, um, you know, I, I just absolutely, it's gut wrenching. And, um, It's a decision that was not taken lightly, thought months about it, tried a lot of different things, and it's something that just weighs heavily on me even today. But the reality is that great companies make their best moves in times that aren't as rosy. And to do that, you have to make sure that you have financial freedom and flexibility to keep making investments. And That was the decision that I took, and unfortunately, it impacted about 8% of the organization, and it pretty much followed the trends that you see in new business for the most part, both geographically by industry and by solution.

And Marcus, Bob, the broad-based outcomes really relates not only to the fact that we're taking out excess capacity, but remember, we also are taking advantage of some of the productivity gains that we're getting in the world of work today, and that's what gave us the opportunity to be more broad-based with this versus more surgical. Great.

I've got lots of other questions, but I'll jump back in the queue.

And our next question comes from the line of Toby Summer with Truist Securities. Please go ahead.

Capital intensity over the last few years, you know, CapEx has gone from like 31 million in fiscal 21, and it looks like we're on a run rate for over 80 this year. Could you talk about that, what your goals are for what it will achieve, and if there's a potential for it to normalized down as a percentage of sales and or operating cash flow? Toby, the first part of your question was cut off. Could you? Yeah, absolutely. So I wanted to ask about capital intensity. In recent years and year to date, CapEx has gone up significantly. It's more than doubled in sort of three and a half years. So I want to know what the goals are, what you're achieving and or hope to achieve in the future and whether that could normalize down as a percentage of sales and operating cash. Yeah, well, look, it's number one, it's around the IP and embedding the IP in everything that we do. And, you know, with all the conversations around AI, it first starts with data and proprietary data and that we have that. I mean, We develop, you know, over a million professionals a year. We've done 100 million assessments. So the CapEx and the investment there is really around data and IP and how we blend together the entire platform. And, you know, for example, in both, you know, consulting and digital, we break those segments out separately, but in fact, they very much go hand in hand in that consulting uses the IP of the firm in many of its engagements. So I think that's fundamental to the company's future is around proprietary IP data knowledge, particularly with these conversations around AI. I don't think it will be quite as high as 80% But I do think that there's a level that we're going to want to maintain to see the opportunities going forward. And so when we look at this, our track record, and we've got 20 years, you look, it's been fairly balanced in terms of our strategy. We say what we mean, we do what we say. And I would expect that it's going to continue to be balanced. Would that moderate somewhat this year? I think it probably will in the back half of the year. But we have to invest in the monetization and the integration of our IP into the solutions that we offer, including in search.

I appreciate that. Toby, I think the number you mentioned, the $80 million, is high today. You should be thinking this year CapEx is probably $60 million plus minus.

Okay, so it does edge down from last fiscal year.

Yeah, last fiscal year was – I'm sorry, go ahead.

I appreciate that detail.

How do we assess the effectiveness of those investments? Because they're multi-year in nature, and it's a process. Is it – more rapid growth in the licensing piece within digital? Is it also a boost in the medium-term growth rate of consulting? From where we sit outside the company, how do we assess the efficacy of those investments? Well, I think the first thing is, number one, this is the whole bigger than the sum of the parts. And so how does the firm perform Overall, when you start to peel back, I think you first have to look at consulting and digital together. And, you know, what are those solutions doing relative to any kind of market expectations? And so, you know, today that business is a billion one, billion two. And as we talked about, look at the consulting growth rate. I mean, you know, the new business in October was up like 10%. And the wins that we're getting are complex engagements, bigger sizes. Look at the rate per hour. The rate per hour on our consulting business has gone from like 300 bucks to, you know, 413 in the matter of two, two and a half years. That's a direct result of the investments we've made, the strategy around the marquee and regional accounts, the strategy around going to bigger engagements. So I think that's something you can look at. You know, the RPO business, the success in the RPO business is because of the account strategy, because of the talent that we have, but the big part is around the IP and the technology that we'll bring to clients. Now, this is a pretty tough compare with what we're seeing and what others are seeing in the RPO industry with what I've called previously labor hoarding. It's difficult to really assess it in this particular cycle, but I think you can look at that and, again, just look back over, you know, many years. I can remember 10 years ago that business was $50 million. Today the run rate's, you know, more like, you know, 320, 350, something like that. You know, I think you would look at that as well.

And, Toby, the other thing you have to think about, too, with the total capital spend is a portion of that goes to infrastructure, right, whether we're updating systems, or strengthening the foundation to keep the bad guys out. Probably 15 to 20% of what we spend is infrastructure spending.

Sure. Gary, how do we think about and how do you think about the internal recruiting capability that your customers have retained during this uncertain economic period of the last seven or eight quarters? And What does it mean to the ability of the company to sort of grow as perhaps marginal demand increases? How much will be retained internally at the customers versus represent, you know, give itself as demand to corporate? Well, I think ultimately depends on the quality of and the knowledge that we bring, clearly, you know, we have seen companies retain a larger share of, you know, areas of shared services that I wouldn't have guessed. I mean, there's no question about it. But, you know, you look at the business today, and, for example, you know, the search business is essentially – where it was, you know, pre-pandemic levels. And so do I think that that's going to have a negative impact when it's a little sunnier? No, I don't think it's going to have a material negative impact because I've got a lot of confidence, and I think the data shows that the IP and the insight that we bring is pretty special in the marketplace. So I wouldn't expect that to have a big negative overhang on what we do around recruiting in the labor market. If I could just take one last one, I want to react to something you said earlier. You said perhaps general deflation. How could that manifest itself in wages and how does that representation wages, uh, impact your growth in a year or two. Thanks. Well, um, you know, there there's going to con I think there's going to continue to be some wage pressure, but you've seen that really moderate big time, um, over the last few months. I mean, the quit rate has gone down substantially. And that's what happens in cycles. It goes from an employer market to an employee market and back and forth. But I do think overall that that deflationary impact will ultimately result in central banks revisiting the levels of rates. And I think that could create freedom for companies, um, in terms of, in terms of investment. So I would view that as a good thing. I mean, it's clear what the, you know, the central banks and this unprecedented move that they've made over many months here, it is had a big, big impact on, on the economy. There's just no, no question about it. Um, in the United States going from 600,000 jobs a month to now, you know, this month probably 100,000. I mean, that's incredible. That's unbelievable. So it's had its impact, and I have to believe that at, you know, say five, six months down the road, there has to be a re-look at that.

Thank you for being so generous with my question.

Next question comes from the line of Trevor Romeo. Please begin.

Hi, thanks so much for taking the questions. First one just on the revenue guidance. I was just wondering if you could talk about your expectations for each segment. I think in total it's maybe a mid to high single-digit decline sequentially that's embedded, kind of on a consolidated basis. I was wondering if you could kind of talk about the various factors for each of the businesses.

The first overall, when we historically look at our results, you would tend to think that the third quarter based on historical averages would be down about 5% from the second quarter. And, you know, basically, you know, our guide is in line with that. And I would expect that, the results in the third quarter are going to mirror what we've talked about here in terms of new business trends. So I would probably expect the search business to be down, you know, 10% or so. I would expect the consulting business to be strong, strong in a relative term in this kind of economy for sure. And so that's how I would think about it. On the interim side, I would expect that the technology area would improve slightly over what it's done. And so that's kind of broad-based how I would look at the components of the business. On a geographic basis, I would expect EMEA to continue to perform well and, again, That's relative to the economy that we're dealing with, but that could be moderate growth. It could be flat. Asia over the last several quarters has been off. China has been a drag on our results to the tune of about $50 million a year. The good news in the last two, three months is we've seen some improvement in Asia, which would be great for us. We have a great team there. So that's how I would think about it. The RPO business, you know, the level of new business, the new wins this quarter was about 100, almost 150, 141. So 600 million, that's kind of what it was, excluding last year, you know, after the pandemic, it was kind of 600 million a year. So that's how I kind of think about it.

Okay, thanks, Gary. That's helpful. On the leadership development outsourcing or the coaching at scale business you've been talking more about lately, just kind of wondering if you could talk about how you progressed toward that opportunity the past several months and how significant that can be to the company in the future.

Well, it comes back to Toby's question around investment and capital. I mean, you know, part of that investment in capital is is around some of our training businesses, and we have to continue to invest in that. So, you know, that training business is, you know, roughly call it 10% of the overall company's revenue footing. It's an enormous market. It's, you know, it's probably $100 billion. I mean, it's massive in terms of the market opportunity there. we continue to win mandates of not just teams but thousands of people within an organization, particularly at a time like this when companies have to really adapt and adjust and innovate and optimize and think about AI and think about their talent strategies. So it does present an incredible opportunity for us, but the key is around the IPs. And we have to make sure that we're making the investments to enable the development, you know, to create real, you know, learning journeys for companies and their employees.

And, Trevor, this is Bob. The one thing we are seeing right now on leadership development outsourcing on our, you know, the journey to stand that up is clients are coming to us now. We have a leadership team. development outsourcing diagnostic. So we're helping clients to understand, you know, most clients, their spend is so dispersed across the organization. And in these times, we were trying to optimize costs. We started to get mandates around the cost optimization of their leadership development spend through our diagnostic tool.

Great, thanks. And then if I could maybe sneak one more in, just to follow up on the restructuring. I think the annual cost savings, I think, is about 4% of the current revenue run rate. I mean, just simplistically, would you expect that to have about a 4% positive impact on margins on an ongoing basis, or would there be some offsets there? And then on kind of the phasing or the timing, will all of that benefit be captured by the end of Q3, or would there be some lagging impacts beyond that?

I'll jump on that one, Gary. So I'll answer the second part first. The majority of the saves we would expect to see in Q3, there are some situations in foreign countries where, for example, people are on garden leave and so on. And so getting the costs out of the business takes a bit longer. But I would say for the most part, we'll realize the savings in the third quarter. You heard Gary talk about sort of breaking before the turn and then accelerating through it. And so part of the reason why we took the actions is to give us the ability to make investments as we go through this cycle. And so the 400 basis points that you're referring to, you should be thinking about this business from a, I would say for the near term, kind of a 14.5% to 15.5% margin, adjusted EBITDA margin, And then obviously once the fog lifts and the world gets back to the more normal environment, we would expect to be in kind of the 16% to 18% range that we previously talked about.

Okay, understood. Thank you very much.

And our next question comes from the line of Josh Chan with UVS. Please go ahead.

Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. So just one question on the guidance. You mentioned that in the third quarter you expect about 15% EBITDA margin, which is obviously higher than what you did in Q2. So I was just wondering, in what businesses do you expect to see most of that sequential margin improvement?

Well, we want to see it in all of them. Before the pandemic, we were – you know, kind of consistently running at 14, 15% EBITDA margin. Then we entered into a brand new market around interim services. And when you pro forma that out and look at the history, the immediate history before the pandemic, that kind of 14 and a half, 15 historical number translates to about, you know, 12.5%, 13%, something like that. And so what we're guiding to here is, you know, a 15%. So we would think on an apples-to-apples basis that this would be, you know, 200, 300 basis points higher than pre-pandemic. And with the investments that we have made over the years, as Bob talked about, in terms of productivity improvements, using AI and the like, we better see that kind of profit increase. So that's how we're thinking about it.

Okay. That's helpful. Thank you. And then just a last follow-up, I guess, on the restructuring. Could you kind of just run through the thought process and timing behind that? Because it didn't seem like any business took a leg down in the quarter, really, So is it more of a catch-up and an acknowledgement that the recovery may take a little bit of time? Or I guess what was the thought process behind doing that now?

Well, it's never a great thought process. And it was, for me personally, many, many months in the making. And we tried a lot of different things, but at the end of the day, And, you know, you look at the firm's history and we have a clear and demonstrated track record of powering through cycles. And if you look, we have a history of taking actions, unfortunate actions earlier than later. And we do that so that when there's volatility and dislocation, we can take advantage of that. And that was the reason. And it's just something that I hate to do. It weighs on my heart. But, you know, we have to make sure that we have the financial freedom to be able to invest because this is a multi-billion dollar opportunity from where we are today.

Great. Appreciate the call there and good luck in the second half of the year.

And the next question comes from the line of Mark Marcon with Bayard. Please go ahead.

Thanks for taking my follow-ups. Gary, I wanted you to expand, if possible, on your last comment. With regards to, you know, the rationale for doing it, I think you've always been very clear and it's very thoughtful. in terms of the reduction. And it seems like everybody who is with the firm and coming through this on the other side is going to benefit from it. But I'm wondering if you can describe how morale is, how is retention with regards to the consultants that you want to keep, and to what extent do all the consultants appreciate the necessity of doing what you did?

Well, that's a loaded question. You know, just based on data, our turnover is really low relative to a professional services firm. And it was low actually even during the great resignation, relatively speaking. And so that's, you know, when you actually look at the data, And that is the fact, is that, you know, the turnover has been at very, very reasonable levels. You know, these decisions are not easy ones. And, you know, at the end of the day, we have a multibillion-dollar opportunity ahead of us. To be able to seize that opportunity, we have to have the financial flexibility to make investments, to do M&A, to reward our talent, to invest in data and AI and the things that we've talked about, and at the same time, return capital to shareholders. And, you know, again, on an apples-to-apples basis, with the investments that we've made, I think we should be more profitable than than we were. And, you know, before the pandemic, we were running apples to apples, kind of 12 and a half, 13, adjusting for the interim mix. And with the investments that we've made, you have to see a return on those investments. And our profitability level now, the guide at 15%, reflects a step up in profitability from the pre-pandemic levels. And I think that is absolutely warranted given the investments that we've made in the business.

Great. The digital business, you know, despite the economic softness, has been growing, you know, modest, you know, 2.9% year-over-year growth, but strong sequential growth. Can you talk a little bit about the areas that you're seeing the greatest success in the digital business? And then you also mentioned earlier referenced, you know, bigger projects on the consulting side. And I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about that and, and this, you know, how should we think about the lumpiness with regards to new business trends as it relates to digital?

Yeah, you're going to continue to see lumpiness in digital. We've got some very tough compares. Um, you could land multimillion dollar engagements that hit in a quarter and that's, that's actually what you're, what you're saying. So there is going to be some lumpiness. I mean, that's why we've tried to move this towards, you know, a software as a service business. And as Tiffany said, it's about a third, 36%, something like that, of our new business is around licensing. You know, we made that move a few years ago. We're going to, you know, continue on that. I do think you really do need to look at the consulting and digital businesses together to get a true picture. Um, and you know, the digital business feeds a lot of other, I mean, the digital, you know, part of that's feeding our, our professional development business. So to, to, to just look at that on a standalone basis, and it was my decision to break that out several years ago. I mean, you do really need to look at it, uh, as a, as an integrated whole, there's really four things on the digital business that we're, we're focused on, you know, right now. Um, One is around rewards. Two is around sales and service. Three is around assessments. And four is around renewals. And if I added a fifth, it would be around developing an ecosystem, channel partners. That is such a long name. But those are the areas. We have a comp data of millions of people, 30 million people around the world, 30,000 companies, I think that's about it. able to monetize even further. The sales and service, we made an investment right before the pandemic in a company called Miller Hyman. We've got incredible IP there. We've got to make sure that that's being digitized and brought into today's reality. Assessments is a linchpin of the company. We've done 100 million assessments. We've got to make sure that we are digitizing that, embedding AI into it. We have to focus on renewals, and part of that's around activating and enabling our learning content, for sure.

Hey, Marcus, Bob, the other thing that you should think about with the new business in digital is as we start to sign up more longer-term engagements, you sign it up in the past, you do it one year, then another year, then another year, so each sequential year you'd have that same renewal happening. whereas now if we sign up a three-year deal, you don't get the renewal in year two and year three. So you're seeing some of that influence the new business in digital as well, which is a good thing. We want to get the long-term subscriptions.

And can you talk about, like, on the digital side with your largest client there, how is that progressing? What are you hearing? How referenceable are they going to be?

Well, I look at just the, again, I'm going to look at the consulting and digital business together. I mean, you know, look at the shift that's been made in those businesses over several years, and you're clearly, clearly seeing a move towards more scaled assignments. There's no question about it. And a lot of those are around organizational strategy, which is, you know, around companies rethinking their organization, setting up a new organization, and you know, adapting, optimizing, innovating. And the success of that is due not only to the talented people that we have, but the IP that we have too. And, you know, that's really bearing out.

And, Mark, when you think about our largest clients, you should be thinking about it more from a kind of a one corn fairy integrated approach where the real power of the firm comes in when we've got multiple lines of business into a client. So rather than looking at a large client relative to digital or RPO, it's really the whole suite of services that we offer is what creates the largest accounts that we have.

Yeah, I was just talking about that one contract, but you know what I'm talking about in terms of how well that's going. So just was curious there. With regards to China, you did mention it's been soft and a big drag, but Gary, you mentioned it's starting to pick up a little bit or stabilize. Can you expand on that?

Well, we've seen, you know, a little bit of green shoots over the last couple months. And I'm not going to sit here and say that two months make a trend. But, you know, that's a... you know, that's $50 million in terms of going back to pre-pandemic off the company's top line. You know, it's not insignificant in terms of the impact that it's had. So I'm not going to sit here and say that two months make a trend, but it has looked better the last couple months.

Great to hear. Thank you very much.

And it appears there's no further questions, Mr. Bernison.

Okay, thank everybody. It's time of year where there's a lot of reflection and a lot of thankfulness despite what's happening in the world today. I thank you all for listening, taking an interest, and we'll speak to you next time. Thank you, everybody.

Ladies and gentlemen, this conference call will be available for replay for one week starting today at 3 p.m. Eastern Time, running through December 13, 2023 at midnight. You may access the AT&T Executive Playback Service by dialing 866-207-1041 and entering the access code 917-7291. International participants may dial 402-970-0847. Additionally, the replay will be available for playback at the company's website, www.cornferry.com, in the Investor Relations section. That does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for your participation and for using AT&T Conferencing Service. You may now disconnect.