Kinder Morgan, Inc.

I have only two comments before turning the call over to our CEO Kim Dang and the team. First, we believe our bullish outlook on natural gas demand remains grounded in reality, and we expect to see very And we see that demand increasing to over 34 BCF per day by 2030. This astounding growth is enormously beneficial to the midstream sector, and especially to companies like Kinder Morgan that have extensive pipeline networks along the Texas-Louisiana Gulf Coast, which is the location of most of the export terminals present and future. Our throughput agreements for delivery of the feed gas are essentially take or pay in nature, which gives us great confidence in the resulting cash flow. My second comment is specific to Kendra Morgan. You will hear from Kim and the team that we finished 2025 very strong compared to 2024 and to our budget for 2025. And as you know from our earlier release of the budget for 2026, we expect more good performance this year. Once again, the chief driver of our success in both years is the extraordinary strength of our natural gas assets. And with that, I'll turn it over to Kim.

Thanks, Rich. As Rich said, we had a fantastic fourth quarter, producing record results for the quarter and the year, much stronger than we anticipated when we announced our Q3 results. For the quarter, adjusted EBITDA was up 10% compared to the fourth quarter of last year, and adjusted EPS grew 22%. Those are big numbers for a stable midstream business like ours. The biggest driver of the outperformance was natural gas. It had an outstanding quarter and year. Our project backlog has increased by approximately $650 million to $10 billion. We added a little over $900 million in new projects, which was offset by $265 million of projects placed in service. The most two significant additions are Florida gas transition projects, both supported by long-term shipper contracts. Our backlog multiple remains below six times, which will drive very nice growth over the next few years. In addition, we're working on greater than $10 billion in project opportunities beyond the backlog. While we won't be successful on all of those, it gives you a sense of the tremendous market opportunity. We believe we will continue to find attractive opportunities for years to come. Wood and Mack currently projects the U.S. natural gas market will continue to grow over the longer term with an incremental 20 BCF a day of demand growth between 2030 and 2035. Now, quick update on our three largest projects, MSX, South System 4, and Trident. We started construction on Trident last week. And for MSX and South System 4, we received our FERC scheduling order. The FERC anticipates issuing our final certificate by July 31, which is the schedule we requested but ahead of our original expectation. There's still a lot of work ahead, but all three projects are on budget and on or ahead of schedule. Another positive, last week S&P upgraded KMI to BBB+. That shows our balance sheet is in great shape. On the management front, I want to take a moment to recognize Tom Martin, who will retire at the end of this month, for his wise counsel and the value he has helped deliver to our shareholders over his 23 years with the company. As we have previously announced, Tom will continue to serve as an advisor to the OTC and the board, so we'll continue to benefit from his perspective. We're excited to have Dax, who many of you know from his long tenure at the company, step into the president's role. I'm looking forward to working with him closely as we continue to execute on our strategy. To sum it up, we had a great quarter and year. We also strengthened our balance sheet and advanced key projects. With a $10 billion backlog and tremendous potential beyond that, we're set up for a very exciting future. With that, I'll turn it over to David.

Oh, Tom.

Thanks, Kim. I appreciate the kind words. Starting with the natural gas business unit, transport volumes were up 9% in the quarter versus the fourth quarter of 2024, primarily due to increased LNG feed gas deliveries on Tennessee gas pipelines. So the full year transport volumes were up 5% over 2024. Natural gas gathering volumes were up 19% in the quarter from the fourth quarter of 2024 across all of our GNP assets, but the largest impact being from our Haynesville system. So sequentially total gathering volumes were up 9% and the full year 2025 gathering volumes were up 4% versus 2024. we experienced a significant ramp up from our producer customers during the quarter to meet the growing LNG demand. Our Haynesville gathering system, for example, set a daily throughput record of 1.97 BCF a day on December 24th. Looking forward, we continue to see significant incremental project opportunities across our natural gas pipeline network. For example, we are in various stages of development to potentially serve more than 10 BCF a day of natural gas demand in the power generation sector. In our product pipeline segment, refined products volumes were down 2% in the quarter compared to the fourth quarter of 2024. For the full year 2025, refined products volumes were about equal to 24, Crude and condensate volumes were down 8% in the quarter compared to the fourth quarter of 2024. More than all of that decline is driven by taking double H out of service for the NGL conversion project early in the third quarter of 2025. Excluding double H volumes in both periods, crude and condensate volumes were up 6% in the quarter compared to the fourth quarter of 24. On January 16, 2026, KMI and Phillips 66 Announced the start of the 2nd, open season on their proposed Western gateway pipeline system. Western gateway pipeline will connect Midwest and other refinery refinery supply. To Phoenix and to California with connectivity. The Las Vegas Nevada, the pipeline. The 2nd, open season, which concludes on March 31, 2026 is for the remaining pipeline capacity. and adds new access to the Los Angeles market via a joint tariff supported by the planned reversal of one of KMI's existing SFPP lines between Watson and Colton, California. In addition to expanding the offered destinations, the second open season adds additional origin points to enable supply diversification and optionality for our customers. We believe this project provides an attractive supply alternative for markets in Arizona and California. In our terminals business segment, our liquids lease capacity remained high at 93%. Market conditions continue to remain supportive of strong rates and the utilization of tanks available for use is 99% at our key hubs on the Houston Ship Channel and at Carter at New Jersey. Our Jones Act anchor fleet remains exceptionally well contracted, assuming likely options are exercised. Our fleet is 100% leased through 2026, 97% leased through 2027, and 80% leased through 2028. We have opportunistically chartered a significant percentage of our fleet at higher market rates and have an average length of firm contract commitments of more than three years. The CO2 segment experienced 1% lower oil production volumes, 2% lower NGL volumes, and 2% lower CO2 volumes in the quarter versus the fourth quarter of 2024. For the full year 2025, oil volumes are about 2% below 24, but finished strong in the quarter to be slightly above our plan for the year. With that, I'll turn it over to David.

Thanks, Tom. Last quarter, we're declaring a quarterly dividend of 29.25 cents per share, which is $1.17 per share annualized, up 2% from 2024. For the fourth quarter, we generated net income attributable to KMI of $996 million and EPS of 45 cents, 49% and 50% above the fourth quarter of 2024. This quarter's results included a gain on an asset sale, which we treat as a certain item. Excluding certain items, our adjusted net income and adjusted EPS still grew very nicely, both 22% above the fourth quarter of 2024. Our growth was driven by newly placed in service natural gas expansion projects, contributions from our outrigger acquisition, and continued strong demand for natural gas transport, storage, and related services. For the full year, 2025, we beat our budget by more than the contributions from our outrigger acquisition. Outperformance came from our natural gas business, driven by greater value on transport capacity and ancillary services. Our terminals segment also generated better than budgeted contributions. We budgeted to grow adjusted EBITDA by 4% and adjusted EPS by 10% from 2024. We actually grew adjusted EBITDA by 6% and adjusted EPS by 13%. Our 2025 EBITDA and net income were all-time record levels for Kinder Morgan. Moving on to the balance sheet, as we continue to grow our cash flows and take a disciplined approach to capital allocation, our balance sheet continues to strengthen. Our net debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio improved to 3.8 times, down from 3.9 times last quarter, and down from 4.1 times at the end of the first quarter, which was immediately following the acquisition of Outrigger. Since the end of 2024, our net debt has decreased $9 million, despite nearly $3 billion of total investments in growth projects and the acquisition. So we'll go through a high-level reconciliation. We generated cash flow from operations of $5.92 billion. We spent $2.6 billion in dividends. We invested $3.15 billion in total CapEx, including growth, sustaining, and our contributions to joint ventures. We spent approximately $650 million on the outrigger acquisition. We've received $380 million on divestitures, primarily the Eagle Hawk sale. And then we had all other items as a source of cash of about $100 million. That gets you close to the $9 million decrease in net debt for the year. The rating agencies have recognized our strength in financial profile. Last week, S&P upgraded us to triple B positive. Fitch upgraded us to BBB Plus during the summer of 2025, and we're on positive outlook by Moody's. So as has already been mentioned, but I'll mention it again, 2025 was an exceptionally strong year, a record-setting year, in fact. We beat our budget and delivered double-digit earnings growth. We grew our backlog from $8.1 billion to $10.0 billion, despite placing $1.8 billion of projects into service. meaning we added $3.7 billion of projects to the backlog during the year. We improved our balance sheet, we achieved credit rating upgrades, and expect meaningful cash flow benefits from tax reform, which will generate additional investment capacity. We have very positive momentum heading into 2026. And with that, I'll turn it back to Kim.

Okay, Michelle, if you'll come back on and we'll take questions.

Thank you. At this time, if you would like to ask a question, you may press star followed by the number one. To withdraw your question, you may press star two. Please unmute your phones and state your name when prompted. Our first caller is Julian DeMoulin-Smith with Jefferies. Your line is open.

Hey, good afternoon, team. Thank you guys very much for the time. I appreciate it. Look, if I can kick it off more on the data center front, you guys talk about the 70% number issue. with respect to where you have exposure and aligned with data center opportunities. Can you talk a little bit about what you're seeing actively on the front? Obviously, we saw the FGT announcement here. Perhaps that speaks out a little bit. But how do you think about that regionally in terms of further data points we should be seeing through the course of the year? And I've got a quick follow-up.

Okay. I'm not exactly sure about the 70%. But if you look at our $10 billion backlog, about 60% of our backlog is is associated with power projects. That's not just data center. That's anything associated with power. And if you think about the opportunities on the power side, I think a great example is if you look in the state of Georgia, where Georgia Power recently, I think the end of November, filed a revised IRP And they're projecting 53 gigawatts of power demand between now and the early 2030s. And so from a gas perspective, if that was 100% gas, you know, that would be like 10 BCF a day, roughly, depending on the conversion metrics you use. And, you know, we expect that a significant portion of that will be gas. And that's just one utility in one state. And so, you know, what we're seeing across our network, whether that's in Georgia or South Carolina or Louisiana or Arkansas or Texas or New Mexico, Colorado, I mean, we are seeing similar stories just across our network. And, you know, the other thing is you look at power demand. We've got a higher power demand growth between 2025 and 2030. Wood Mac has, you know, in their most recent estimates, increased theirs. And if you look at Wood Mac between 2030 and 2035, they think the power growth, at least in their projections, is greater between 2030 and 2035 than it is in their projections between 25 and 30. So, you know, this is something that, you know, is driving significant amount of projects. It's also, you know, a significant driver of the potential opportunities that we have And we think will last, you know, for a decade.

Excellent. If I can just firm up a little bit more on the SSE-5 setup and timing, what are you looking to move forward on that? How are you thinking about timing? And then even more specifically, if you could speak to, are you thinking about this as being a compression first or looping kind of project initially? And what level of sign utility load would unlock a more formal file in?

Julian, this is Staple. So look, in terms of timing, we see strong interest in the southeast and we continue to work with the customer base. In terms of what the final scope looks like, that all depends on final subscription. I do see it more than just compression. I think there could be some more brownfield looping. But once again, it's early. We're working through the demand dynamics with our customer base. We do see opportunity there, and, you know, it is competitive. So we will continue to, you know, report as we go along, but ultimately the fine deal is what drives the announcement.

Excellent. Thank you, guys. Stay warm this weekend.

Thank you.

Thank you. Our next caller is Jackie Colettis with Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.

Hi, thank you so much for the time this evening. First, I just wanted to start on, you know, the next steps on the Western Gateway following the second open season launch last week. How do you think about allocating capital towards this project versus natural gas opportunity set and how do those returns compare?

Yeah, I mean, on every project we look at based on risk and return. And so, you know, I think we have a middle of the road return that we expect, and then we vary off that based on the stability, the duration, and the credit worthiness of the cash flows. And so, you know, if you've got stronger credit worthy parties and longer cash flows and take or pay, then you come, you know, off that return, down from that return a little bit. And if you have you know, those things are lost and you go above that return. All these returns are significantly above our cost of capital. And so I think, you know, if we proceed on Western Gateway, we will have long-term shipper contracts there. And I expect those shipper contracts will be largely from creditworthy counterparties. And if not, you know, we would have some credit support. So we don't at this point have, you know, limited capital. I think we can easily fund this project and do all the natural gas projects that we're talking about. Another point I'd point out on Western Gateway, which is we are contributing assets to that. And so our cash contribution will be less than we're setting up a 50-50 joint venture with P66. It would be less than half of the cost of the overall project. because we're contributing value for contributing assets for part of our contribution.

That's helpful. And then just as a follow-up, leverage ended around 3.8 times in the quarter. How do you think about maintaining leverage levels towards the midpoint of your long-term guy of 3.5 to 4.5 range versus leveraging up towards that high end if there are multiple CapEx opportunities?

Well, I'd say this, you know, right now what we've said is we're going to spend about $3 billion per year in capex. Now, that won't be a perfect round $3 billion, you know, because you just have timing of spend, but roughly $3 billion a year. And we have the ability to fund that, you know, 100% out of cash flow. The other thing I'd point out is that as our $10 billion backlog of projects come online, that our debt to EBITDA actually declines over time. And so that creates more balance sheet capacity. So for every 0.1 times of leverage, that's $850 million of capacity. So I think we've got a ton of capacity even without leveraging up closer to the four and a half times. And I don't think, you know, I don't think we have intention of getting close to that level. So I think we've got plenty of capacity to accommodate the opportunities that we see out there.

Great. Thank you so much for the time.

Thank you. Our next caller is Teresa Chen with Barclays. Your line is open.

Good afternoon. Kim, hear you loud and clear on the less than 50% of capital contribution on Western Gateway because you're contributing SFPP. When we think about the net EBITDA impact to Kinder, assuming this project moves forward, how should we quantify the displacement of existing SFTP EBITDA? How much is that contributing currently?

Well, I think two things. One, Teresa, I think we're really early. And so, you know, we've got to get through the open season. We've got negotiations to do with our partner on the specifics.

and uh so i think it you know we've got to finalize costs etc so i think it's i think it's too early to go through that at this point understood um maybe turning to a different portion of your liquids business could you provide an update on the progress of the double h conversion and in light of recent upstream developments in the balkan and the increasingly challenged near-term outlook for the basin how are you thinking about the expected ngl throughput and EBITDA contribution from this project?

Sure. I mean, the project's going to come on probably late first quarter, early second quarter, and that's phase one. And then, you know, with respect to the future phases, you know, that's something we continue to work on.

Yeah, I mean, Teresa, broadly, though, I mean, we still, you know, given the recent pullback, you know, it's just a matter of time. I think our initial phase is well contracted. We see the volumes behind it. You know, these are coming from our plants, and so we have visibility there. So I don't think, you know, as far as phase one is concerned, and that is probably on the earlier side of the timeframe that Kim gave you in terms of where we come in. I think as we look to look to the next phase, you know, we continue to have discussions, positive discussions with our customers. We'll monitor the overall macro situation, and we'll make the investment decision accordingly. That being said, we still have, you know, that in front of us.

Right. And I think the other thing is, you know, GORs are growing in the pocket.

Fair enough. Thank you.

Thank you. Our next caller is Michael Bloom with Wells Fargo. Your line is open.

Thanks. Good afternoon, everyone. Yeah, maybe if I could just ask maybe a different way at the same question to some degree. uh with with continental resources effectively saying they're going to stop drilling in the box and i wonder if you can talk about at least for now can you can you talk about how meaningful a customer they are either your current business or where they were contemplated to be for double h and if that has an impact on uh the further expansion thanks

So, um, yeah, on, you know, if you look at, um, the EBITDA that we get from Bakken or EVDA, it's about 3% of Kinder Morgan overall. Um, obviously Continental makes up a piece of that. Um, we don't think that there's going to be any material impact from the Continental news. We think that, um, the impact is very manageable. You know, that's one because it's 3% of our EBITDA, but it's also because volumes, you know, came into the year a little stronger than we were expecting. And it's also because, you know, they're going to continue to complete wells, you know, through August and because they are just one of a number of customers we have up there.

Okay, great. That makes sense. Thanks for that. And then just wanted to ask, in light of the asset sale that you did here in late 2025, are there more non-core assets that you're actively looking to sell? And strategically, are there segments or areas of the business that you're more inclined to reduce your exposure to?

Thanks. Okay. Yeah. Let me talk about the Eagle Hawk sale first. You know, first of all, on that, you know, that's not an asset that we were looking or planning to sell. You know, our partner approached us because they were selling at least a portion of their interest. And, you know, based on the price that we could achieve, it made sense to sell. You know, it's an eight and a half times multiple on a non-operated minority interest and a GMT asset. And when we looked at the reinvestment opportunity, meaning if we were buying at the price that we proposed to sell and we look at the cash flows, those were going to be below our cost of capital. And that included taking into account any tax impact from the sale. So we thought it made sense. It was a good economic decision to sell that asset and recycle that capital. And so, you know, that's generally, you know, the way that we have been approaching sales of assets, which has been more opportunistic. As we say, you know, our assets are for sale every day at the right price. And so, we want to make good economic decisions about that. We like the portfolio of assets that we have today. You know, 60, it's two-thirds natural gas. And 26% is products, pipelines, and terminals, very similar pipeline and storage business. And then 7% is CO2, which is a little bit different, but we get great returns in that business. And we have an expertise that a lot of people don't have. I think we're very comfortable with the suite of assets that we have, and this was just an opportunistic sale that made sense.

Thank you, Kim.

Thank you. Our next caller is Jeremy Tenet with JPMorgan. Your line is open.

Hi. Good afternoon. Jeremy. I was just curious for your thoughts, I guess, you know, industry at large and, you know, what opportunities it could present to you down the road. Just if we think about Waha egress, one, we have some pretty cold weather coming up and, you know, during URI that presented opportunities for Kinder last, you know, last go around. So just wondering if you could share any thoughts there.

Well, look, we, you know, as always here, when we look at the footprint, You know, given our footprint, we're able to leverage, you know, basis dislocations that occurred. You know, first and foremost, we want to serve our customers. And then to the extent that these opportunities present themselves, we've been taking a little more of a, you know, proprietary view on certain things in certain areas strategically, small amounts. And so to the extent that that presents itself, we'll be able to leverage that.

Yeah. But I don't think this storm is not a URI.

It's not a URI.

I mean, it's much shorter in duration, and, you know, it's not going to be as significant.

Understood. It seems like there might be another one on a teal, so we'll see what happens this winter, I guess.

But, you know, generally what I would say is that the gas transportation market is very tight. And so whenever you see dislocations in supply or demand in and around our assets, that is going to present opportunities for us. And that's part of what you saw in the fourth quarter of this year.

Yeah, and a key component of that is storage for us. And we have a significant storage portfolio that will allow us to leverage some of that to the extent that it presents itself.

Got it. Thank you for that. And then just wanted to dial in on NGPL a little bit here, hearing, you know, more data center-driven opportunities in the Midwest, you know, coal-to-gas switching as well, you know, some of the other net gas pipeline operators, seeing a lot of activity there, and just wondering if you could talk about what that could mean for Tinder, for NGPL.

Yeah. So, look, we've, you know, we're quite a bit of, you know, there's significant discussions. You've been seeing some of the EBV postings we've been making out there. We've got interest along the pipeline in terms of, you know, not only just from power customers, but also from, you know, organic markets that are trying to grow. You know, still early on some of these projects. You know, we've got some binding commitments that we're looking to convert into full-fledged, you know, FID projects as these develop. We'll bring them. But, I mean, when you think about The corridor itself, you know, we see a concentration up in the market area. We have some in the producing regions where, you know, folks are looking to site themselves. And so I think the opportunity sets there. It's just, you know, once again, you know, we're in this mode where folks are looking, you know, it's a competitive landscape. And so we want to make sure we secure the returns that we need to progress the projects to FID.

Got it. Understood. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Our next caller is Jean Ann Salisbury with Bank of America. Your line is open.

Hi. You said in the prepared comments that NSX could be in service a couple quarters early, I think. Is there any read across to a faster permitting process across the board, or was that project specific?

No. I mean, I think a couple of things on these projects. One is 871 is gone. That happened, I don't know, six or nine months ago. And that, you know, basically required us to wait five months between when we got our FERC certificate so when we could start construction. So that's gone. And then, you know, the FERC has acted within, is going to act within roughly one year on our filing. And so previously we've been seeing that take a little bit longer than that on big projects. And so the fact that, you know, the FERC process only took 12 months and we don't have 871 is speeding up our in-service on MSX from, you know, the fourth quarter of 28 to the second quarter of 28.

Great. That's very clear. Thank you. And then one of your peers took an equity stake in a US LNG terminal a few months ago. Is that something that KMI is actively looking at or would have interest in, especially, I guess, if you could back-to-back it with another counterparty to make it take or pay equivalent?

Well, I'll say a couple of things on that. Generally, what we've seen on the LNG front is the returns haven't been where we needed them to be to make those investments. And, you know, it's not something that we are accustomed to building. We did a small one. obviously at Alba, but that was a relatively small facility. And so, you know, I think in general, what you should expect from us is that we are kind of sticking to our knitting. We're staying in our lane. You know, we are serving those LNG, that LNG demand through our pipelines. And, you know, right now we serve 40% of that demand as Rich said that, you know, demand is expected to grow significantly. And we expect to get our fair share of that future demand. And that's driving, you know, very nice project opportunities for us. So I'm not saying we would never step out. It's just, you know, there hasn't been the opportunity where we thought the risk return profile was appropriate. And, you know, we haven't wanted to build these on our own.

I think another thing we like on a risk-return basis is the fact that both on the LNG terminal side for feed gas and on the service for electric generation purposes, we have, in general, take-or-pay contracts with utility-grade, investment-grade utilities. And that, we think, is a very good way to look at the risk that we are taking, and we think that minimizes any risk that we have. as opposed to contracting directly with AI developers, for example.

That makes sense.

Thank you. Thank you. Our next caller is Keith Stanley with Wolf Research. Your line is open, sir.

Hi. Good afternoon. You updated the messaging on CapEx to at least $3 billion a year of growth CapEx for the next few years, up from two and a half. I wanted to clarify, is that solely based on the sanctioned project backlog today? So if you keep FID-ing new projects and the backlog grows, CapEx could be above $3 billion a year for the next few years, or is that already reflecting your best estimate over the next few years?

I'd say it's largely based on the $10 billion approved project backlog, but there is some view, there's a small portion that is based on, you know, getting some of the $10 billion in the opportunity set. And look, I think that we updated it from $2.5 to $3 billion. Given the $10 billion, we continued to add to the backlog even after putting projects in service. So this year, when we were putting all those projects in service, at the beginning of the year, we thought it might come down. It's continued to increase. You know, natural gas demand, you know, we continue to see it grow between 25 and 30, but also, you know, beyond that. And so, you know, there may be the opportunity to extend that further, but, you know, we're not ready to do that or make it higher, but we're not ready to do that at this point in time.

Got it. Second question, just wanted to follow up on the earlier one on Mississippi Crossing. So if you're six months early on that project and on, you know, potentially on some of the other bigger ones given the regulatory environment, would your contracts kick in and you'd have pretty close to a full financial contribution right away at that earlier date, or is that not the case?

It's a project-by-project analysis. In this case, the answer is no, the customers don't have to take it at that point in time. They can. I mean, they can elect to take it, but they don't have to. And I would say that... You know, being early on the regulatory front does not directly translate into day for day on the end service. You know, it's going to depend on the project because, you know, once you move back that regulatory, once you get sooner approval from a regulatory perspective, you know, you have to think about when you're getting pipe and when you're getting compression. And so, you know, for example, we haven't seen that translate into much of an earlier date on SAL System 4 at this point in time. So it's project by project. But if our customers don't want that capacity, it will be available for, you know, us to use during that time.

And given the macro environment case, I mean, you just think about, You know, the demand profiles that are coming our way, you know, it's just, you know, you look at that as an opportunity to sell in the secondary markets. Yeah. Right.

Got it. Thank you.

Thank you. Our next caller is Manav Gupta with UBS. Your line is open, sir.

Firstly, congrats on all the upgrades from rating agencies. Reflects the strong quality of the management and execution. Um, I wanted to ask you about the Florida gas transmission projects, both the projects, how did these come about? Can you give us more details? And in the last one year, what you've seen is you announced a project and then end up upsizing it. So if you could talk about, uh, the possibility of some upsizing here for these projects.

So, uh, this is faithful. So just, you know, in terms of the project itself, you know, as you know, we're not the operator. uh you know energy transfers the operators so you know we'll let them talk about how it came about on the call we've been working with them closely thematically it's it's the same themes we've been talking about in the southeast you know we see that as a growth area just just broadly and this is just another example of us getting incremental infrastructure to an area where there's significant growth there's also a resilient resiliency component there uh with the two projects um we think it makes sense in terms of whether or not the project gets upsized uh we're in the process of having an open season right now that open season closes here i think feb 5th if i'm not mistaken and and um you know based on the interest there is it possible to upsize yes if there's if there's a demand for it yeah i'd say those both those projects are backed by long-term contracts with credit worthy counterparties

And so, I mean, they are right down the middle.

Perfect. My quick follow-up here is, at the start of the call, you mentioned that the 4Q turned out to be stronger than what you thought when you announced your 3Q results. So help us understand some of those tailwinds which help you drive the beat in 4Q. And are those still persistent out there? So should 1Q also turn out pretty strong? If you could talk about that.

Sure. So, I mean, it was across the gas network. So it was our, it was our interstate pipes and our gathering assets. And so, you know, as we said before, and this goes,

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