Karman Holdings Inc.

Thank you for standing by and welcome to the Carmen Space and Defense fourth quarter and full fiscal year 2024 earnings conference call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, again, press the star one. Thank you. I now like to turn the call over to Stephen Gitlin, vice president of investor relations. You may begin.

Good afternoon. This is Stephen Gitlin, vice president of investor relations for Carmen. Before we begin, please note that on this call, certain information presented contains forward looking statements. For looking statements include without limitation any statement that may predict forecast indicator, apply future results, performance or achievements and may contain words such as believe anticipate, expect estimate intend project plan or words or phrases with similar meaning. For looking statements are based on current expectations, forecasts and assumptions

that involve risks and uncertainties, including but not limited to economic competitive governmental and technological factors outside of our control

that may cause our business strategy or actual results to differ materially from the forward looking statements. All forward looking statements should be considered in conjunction with the forward looking statements in our earnings release. Future company updates will be available via press releases. For further information on these risks, we encourage you to review the risk factors discussed in Carmen's periodic reports on form 10K and form 10Q filed with the SEC and the form 8K filed today with the SEC, along with the associated earnings release and the safe harbor statement contained therein. This afternoon, we also posted a slide presentation to our website at -sd.com in the news and events section. The content of this conference call contains time sensitive information that is accurate only as of today, April 8, 2025. The company undertakes no obligation to make any revision to any forward looking statements contained in our remarks today or to update them to reflect the events or circumstances occurring after this conference call. Joining me today from Carmen, our Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Tony Kowlinski, Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Mike Willis, and Chief Operating Officer, Mr. Jonathan Boatwine. Now I would like to turn the call over to Tony. Thank you, Steve. It's good to be with you all today. On today's call, I will begin by highlighting the incredible progress we've made so far in 2025 and then summarize our fiscal year 2024 performance before Mike provides a more detailed overview of our financials. Then Jonathan will share our views on the end markets we serve, our capabilities, and the opportunities we see ahead of us. I will then discuss our strong strategic positioning and outlook before we take your questions. Only three months in and 2025 has been an incredibly exciting year for us as we highlight on slide three of our investor presentation. Our IPO and listing on the New York Stock Exchange in February generated strong interest and demand, raising approximately 173 million in net proceeds to support our growth plans and kicking off our next exciting chapter as a public company. We began the year with record funded backlog of nearly 580 million, up 35% year over year. We strengthened our balance sheet, successfully closing our refinancing last week, reducing our interest rate, and extending maturities to 2030 and beyond. And we announced our acquisition of MTI, a specialty metals company that adds new capabilities, customers, and contracted revenue. The transaction is expected to be immediately accretive to revenue growth and margins. We're expanding our team with experienced hires in investor relations, technical accounting, financial planning and analysis, and SEC reporting to name a few. And we're better positioned than ever with significant content on virtually all space launch systems and on the majority of tactical missile and strategic defense systems. As you are learning, Harmon was built to be the nation's leading merchant supplier of advanced space and defense technologies. We are uniquely positioned for profitable growth with a diverse portfolio of customers and programs addressing vital national priorities. Our decades of experience, intellectual property, our focus on efficiency, and dedication to serving our customers make us a trusted and capable partner for more than 70 defense and space prime contractors. The impact of our team's capabilities, our technology, and our track record perhaps is best summed up in our tagline, impossible ends here. Now turning to 2024, highlighted on slide four of our investor presentation, our year over year performance in 2024 was strong. We delivered total revenue of $345 million, representing 23% year over year growth, the vast majority of which was organic growth. We grew adjusted EBITDA by nearly 30% to $106 million, representing a nearly 31% margin and about 150 basis points of margin improvement from a year ago. And we increased net income to $12.7 million from $4.4 million a year ago. These results reflect the continued execution of our strategy aimed at providing our customers with the right innovative and cost effective solutions supported by our deep manufacturing expertise, proprietary technologies, and proven design engineering approach. Beyond our strong financial performance, we expanded our operational capabilities during the year, adding specialized equipment and facilities that position us for new business opportunities. Jonathan will highlight these developments shortly. And strategically in February of 2024, we acquired and successfully integrated rapid machine solutions or RMS into our business. RMS added a high level of production automation, along with significant content and customer relationships to our space and launch end market, contributing almost 12 million of revenue in 2024. This and our MTI acquisition are examples of the types of acquisitions that we seek to make moving forward as we focus on supplementing our strong organic growth and current capability set with the right inorganic opportunities. So from financial, operational, and strategic perspectives, we finished 2024 strong and are off to a great start in 2025. Now I'll turn the call over to Mike for a deeper review of our 2024 financial performance. Mike? Thank you, Tony. Now as Tony highlighted, our strong 2024 financial performance is reflected in numerous metrics. Total revenue increased from 280.7 million in the prior year to 345.3 million, representing a total growth rate of 23% and approximately 18% on an organic basis. The primary drivers of growth were organic in nature and visible across all three of our end markets shown on slide five. Hypersonic and strategic missile defense, space and launch, and tactical missiles and integrated defense systems. Slide six shows revenue over time by end market, along with adjusted EBITDA growth. Our highest growing end market last year was tactical missiles and integrated defense systems, where revenue grew by .5% from 86 million in 23 to 115.6 million in 24. This was a result of continued successful deployment of weapons systems across global conflicts, US military inventory replenishment, and investment in next generation programs, which continue to generate significant global demand. New launch vehicle programs and our acquisition of RMS contributed to .5% growth in space and launch revenue from 94.6 million to 115 million in 24. And well-funded production programs, combined with maturing development programs, drew a .5% revenue growth in hypersonics and strategic missile defense from 100 million in 23 to nearly 115 million in 24. Moving down the panel, shown on slide seven, gross margins expanded approximately 70 basis points year over year to 38.3%, driven by contribution from our RMS acquisition, operating leverage, and our ongoing focus on operational efficiency. That operating income increased .1% from 48.5 million to 63.6 million in 24 and experienced roughly 110 basis points of margin expansion year over year. Similarly, that income increased by .3% from 4.4 million in 23 to 12.7 million in 24, representing .7% of 24 revenue and 210 basis point improvement year over year. And finally, adjusted EBITDA rose .7% from 81.9 million to 106.1 million in 24, representing .7% margin and roughly 150 basis points of margin expansion year on year. Now turning to the balance sheet. As of December 31st of 24, we had 11.5 million cash and cash equivalents, up from 5.4 million in the prior year. Cash and cash equivalents exclude net proceeds of 173 million from our February 2025 IPO. Last week, we announced that we had strengthened our balance sheet by successfully refinancing our existing credit facilities, summarized on slide eight, with a new term loan B and revolving credit facility. Our new $300 million term loan B facilities priced at SOFR plus .5% and results in a 275 basis point improvement versus our prior term loan facility. Both our new term loan and $50 million revolving credit facility resulted in a significant extension with maturities of April of 2032 and April of 2030, respectively. Our refinancing, combined with net IPO proceeds, positioned us to execute the acquisition of MTI that we also announced last week. We funded this acquisition using balance sheet cash and are confident in our ability to manage our capital structure effectively. MTI provides us with incremental contracted revenue and adjusted even at this year. Its margin profile is similar to ours and provides us with valuable new capabilities in refractory and specialized metals such as zirconium, niobium, titanium, and tungsten, just to name a few. Tony will discuss the strategic nature of our MTI acquisition in a few moments. Finally, for modeling purposes, in 2025, we expect a statutory tax rate of 24%, and we expect CapEx investments to total approximately 4% of revenue. Now I'd like to turn the call over

to Jonathan. Thank you, Mike. To echo Tony's comments, it's an exciting time at Carmen. Today I'd like to share our views on the end markets we serve, our operational capabilities, and the opportunities we see for Carmen to support our customers and our nation's security. Carmen has a long and rich history of designing, manufacturing, and delivering critical products from nearly every major platform within the markets we serve. We were purpose-built to deliver advanced solutions that meet the demanding requirements for hypersonics, defense, and space systems, leveraging technologies that meet the mission requirements. Our focus is on exceeding our customers' expectations by delivering on our existing programs while also providing proposals and technical solutions for emerging system requirements. We are excited about opportunities to support the administration's Golden Dome Initiative and believe that we are in a strong position to help make it a reality. Golden Dome is expected to employ a multi-layered architecture to protect the United States from a variety of missiles, drones, and other air and space-based threats. Today we provide key integrated subsystems for proven high-altitude and airborne threat defense systems. These systems, or variants of them, are likely to be part of this program, and we are actively engaged with our customers to help make this a reality. From a demand perspective, we have not seen any shifts in our program planning due to the changing landscapes and the conflicts between Ukraine and Russia and between Israel and Hamas. Additionally, we see opportunities to provide launchers and payload propulsion systems to support the DOD's Replicator Program as it progresses. Carmen is continuing to produce systems and subsystems supporting both the replenishment of U.S. military arsenals and demands for these systems from our allies. In terms of government funding, our current programs have not seen any changes from the administration and DOJ's efforts to reduce spending, and we expect that the quantity and diversity of the programs we support will help mitigate against any potential risks. This is the advantage of being a merchant supplier, as we are not reliant on a single or just a few programs to achieve our growth objectives. Our business is very balanced across our three end markets, and we serve nearly every major current and emerging space in Defense Prime on over 100 programs, as shown on slide nine. Another topic very much in today's headlines is the impact of tariffs. Since we have minimal international sales, tariffs should not have a material impact on our revenue. In fact, we see upside opportunity over time in the international market as allies focus on enhancing their own defense capabilities. Our supply chain is primarily domestic, but we are monitoring the situation closely and securing long-term supply agreements where possible. Keep in mind that our firm fixed price contracts typically renew every 12 months, providing us with the opportunity to renegotiate pricing based on changes and input prices. To summarize, Carmen is well aligned with major strategic national security priorities and well positioned to support emerging and next generation capabilities. In the space and launch market, a consistent increase in launch cadence continues to create opportunities for us. Nearly every launch vehicle that passes through the 62-mile high Carmen line into space includes significant content from our company. The increase in launch market competition opens opportunities for us to support and expand content with emerging players while continuing to support incumbents with production of many critical subsystems. For example, we are a key member of the Draper-led team for NASA's Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program and the CP-12 lunar lander mission. We are expanding clean room facilities at our Mucl-Tiva, Washington site for the assembly, integration, and testing of the lunar lander to support this mission, future missions, and the evolving needs of our customers. To support our growth plans, we continued to invest in our technological and manufacturing capabilities in 2024. We accelerated the use of our proprietary MG resin system to shorten lead times and enable low-cost carbon-carbon solutions. We also validated MG as an alternative to traditional high-temperature composite material systems through successful hot-fire rocket motor testing of an MG nozzle. In 2024, we onboarded one of the most capable spin-forming machines in the nation, as well as purchased a powerful and flexible electron beam welding system that expands our advanced manufacturing capabilities. These new capabilities enable us to form and weld large titanium structures for applications in strategic missile defense and space and launch systems. At our Skagit, Washington site, we completed the next phase of construction on our Energetics facility, which supports launch system production and propulsion technologies for tactical missiles. In Decatur, Alabama, just outside of Huntsville, we opened our new large system integration facility. The proximity of this facility to the Army's Redstone Arsenal and numerous space and defense customers enhances our ability to support them and further our business objectives. We have already begun shipping our game-changing missile carriage release system to the warfighter from this facility. Customers trust CARMI with design, demonstration, and high-rate production because we do not simply offer the same solution for every application. Our design and manufacturing approaches deliver on both performance and cost targets. We have the ability to work with our customers from napkin sketch to high-balling production, leveraging a toolbox of technologies and capabilities to develop the system architecture and manufacturing approach to meet the mission. This allows us to select the appropriate technologies and manufacturing methods that achieve required production rates at desired cost targets. As a result, we remain well positioned to support current and future programs in the space and defense markets. Our continued engagement with customers and the government to support next-generation system requirements will create opportunities for continued growth in our business. We have a talented and experienced team and an effective -to-market strategy that ensures we reach incumbent and emerging primes, collaborating with them early and often to deliver reliable and cost-effective solutions for their missions. Now I'll turn it back to Tony for his closing comments.

Thanks, Jonathan. Our team accomplished a great deal in 2024, and as we look ahead in 2025, it's important to highlight the fact that our solution set remains very well aligned with key defense and space priorities. For example, the Golden Dome concept that Jonathan described represents a significant opportunity for our participation, building on our key role in existing programs for missiles and space launch systems. We are staying close to our customers and to government decision makers so that we can understand and address their emerging requirements in a cost-effective manner. We are tracking the federal government budget processes closely as we await the President's 2026 budget request. In general, we believe the net program funding will continue to align with our growth plans. On the inorganic front, our acquisition of MTI last week is a great example of the type of acquisition that adds important capabilities, contracted revenue, and margins consistent with ours. Summarized on slide 10, MTI brings highly specialized and valuable manufacturing capabilities with a unique set of metals that are used in strategic missile programs for the U.S. Department of Defense. The system's MTI manufacturers are designed for incredibly high temperature and demanding environments of next generation missile programs. Importantly, we have a strategic roadmap of technologies and capabilities that guide our M&A strategy, all aligning well with the goal of providing high value systems that help the U.S. and our allies defend against near-peer threats. We look forward to continuing the expansion of Carmen's capabilities and offerings through the execution of our M&A strategy. And as we look ahead, we see opportunities for continued growth and shareholder value creation by executing on the following four priorities. First, we expect to leverage our growing backlog and robust pipeline to deliver controlled, sustained organic growth. Second, we plan to continue executing on our inorganic growth opportunity and expect to make one to two acquisitions per year. Smaller in size, but strategic, adding to our capabilities to design and build advanced solutions across our 3M markets. Third, we're investing in our team's talents, along with processes and systems to build an organization that will remain agile and nimble given the ever-changing aerospace and defense landscape. And finally, with all of that, fulfilling our vision of being the industry's most sought-after partner for mission-critical systems. Delivering on these priorities will position us well for growth in 2025 and beyond. The total funded backlog of over $600 million as of the end of March gives us more than 90% visibility to the midpoint of our revenue guidance range for 2025. This means our work this year will focus on meeting customer timelines and requirements, continuing to cultivate our pipeline of inorganic growth opportunities, securing positions in emerging programs and requirements, and growing our capabilities through continuous improvement, all while strengthening our team to drive growth beyond 2025. And this leads us to our fiscal year 2025 guidance, summarized on slide 11. For 2025, we anticipate total revenue of between $423 and $433 million and adjusted EBITDA of between $132 and $137 million, including contribution from our MTI acquisition. This represents -over-year revenue growth of 24% and adjusted EBITDA growth of 27% to the midpoint of these ranges. We expect revenue distribution of approximately 45% in the first half of our fiscal year. After a year of strong performance, we look forward to maintaining our momentum to deliver continued growth in 2025 and beyond. Before we open the call to your questions, I'd like to thank all of our employees for your dedication to making Carmen the industry's most sought-after partner. Thank you to our customers for continuing to place your trust in Carmen. And thank you to all of our shareholders for your continued confidence. We will now take your questions.

Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad to raise your hand and join the queue. If you would like to withdraw your question, simply press star 1 again. We ask that you please limit yourself to one question and one follow-up, at which point you may return to the queue for an additional two questions. Your first question comes from a line of Amit Daryanani from Evercore ISI. Your line is open.

Great. This is Michael Fisher on for Amit. I appreciate you taking my question. Just to start with, within your guidance that looks pretty good on the revenue side, I'm wondering, can you give us any detail on what you're expecting across each of the segments? Are we assuming a relatively similar growth profile for each?

Hey, Michael. This is Mike. Thanks for the question. I'll start it off and then we'll see if anyone else wants to add in. I'm not sure if we can hear you, Michael, but what we saw on 24 was a near-equal split between our three end markets. At this point in time, we do think that we are going to continue on a -to-life basis with that type of a split. Going forward, we really aren't providing that type of guidance split up by end market.

Okay. And then just on the margin side, I think your guidance implies about 70 basis points of -over-year, even without margin expansion, versus around 160 in 2024. I'm just wondering, any particular reason you're seeing margins potentially expand a little bit slower in 2025 versus 2024?

Yeah, so I think we're going to continue to take advantage of operating leverage. We've got some strategic and tactical operational efficiency improvements that are being in place. At the same time, though, we've got public company readiness type expenses as we onboard investor relations, technical accounting, a few of the professional folks at the corporate level. So part of those public company

costs partially offset some of that expansion. Great. Thanks, guys.

Here our next question comes from the line of Peter Armand from Baird. Your line is open.

Yeah, thanks. Hi, Tony, Mike, Jonathan. Congratulations on the 2024 results. Thank you, Peter. Tony, it's probably an unfair question, but you did talk about Golden Dome. Have you quantified at least what the opportunity could be like when you look out the next couple of years? Because you're on a lot of the existing systems that are either in production or in design phase today.

Yeah, again, hi, Peter. Appreciate the question there. In terms of quantifying it specifically, I will not. I would tell you that it is certainly part of the tailwinds that we're feeling as we put forward confidence in our growth over the next couple of years. As you already said, you know, Golden Dome moving forward will clearly utilize some of the components of the current defense apparatus of which we're a part of, whether that be that or PAC 3 or other systems. And we're involved in the discussions as the department and the agencies are figuring out what are the new requirements that will be part of that, including NGI, again, a program that we've highlighted that we're a part of, Next Generation Interceptor and so on. So I can't quantify it specifically to Golden Dome, but it does give us confidence in the forecast we put forward.

Sure, I appreciate that. I knew it was unfair. But I'm just on MTI. When you think about the pipeline of other deals, how should we think about that? Is this just going to be continual tuck-ins or are there other capabilities and bigger gaps that you're looking for?

Now, I would say that the acquisitions we've made so far, including RMS last year, MTI just now, are what you should probably expect moving forward. Appropriately sized, fairly priced, adding capabilities to the, you know, extensive toolbox of intellectual property, processes, design capabilities that Jonathan talked about. And so we're pleased to have just closed on MTI. They bring us great high-engineered products, proprietary processes, and really tough to make metals, cold forming, hot forging, additive manufacturing, electrical discharge machining, all being used in current and future programs in the area of missile defense. So we're pleased with that. And it's likely the same kind as we look at our roadmap of future opportunities, same kind of characteristics, additive to both our capabilities as well as our financial results out of the gate.

Appreciate all the color. Thanks, Tony. I'll jump back in queue. You bet.

Your next question comes from a line of Jason Gursky from Citigroup. Your line is open.

Hey, good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to the public markets in your first earnings call. It's exciting. I'm not sure, Mike or Tony, who wants to take this one, but can you talk a little bit about the contribution in 2025 from MTI, from both the revenue and EBITDA contribution perspective, just trying to get a better sense of what organic growth might look like for you all this year?

Hey, Jason, Tony, and appreciate the comments there. And it is exciting as we embark on with our first call here. We're not going to provide specific guidance there, as we indicated what the top line revenue and EBITDA. I would lead you to MTI would represent revenue in the high teens and EBITDA in the high single digits, adjusted EBITDA, as we would look at the guidance that we've given you for a full year. We won't be breaking out individual revenue or earnings of our various segments or market areas, but I would give you that to give you a sense of how much they're playing in our overall guidance numbers.

Yeah, no, that's helpful. I appreciate that. And then my second question is just on the pipeline and expected book to bill maybe for this year and maybe in that context. So the question is, what's the pipeline look like? What do you think the book to bill might be this year based on that pipeline and then kind of add in to that into response here? What kind of Ukraine kind of hot war exposure you guys have had here over the last year or two, maybe that should we see a cooling of conflicts might represent a headwind for you all over the next 12, 18 months, just trying to get an understanding of what exposure you've had to Ukraine, maybe Israel, anything else that you can think of that might kind of fade away if we get towards peace and just kind of what kind of book to bill you're targeting. Thanks for the year. Thanks. Yeah, appreciate it.

As we think about the potential for and hopefully movement toward peace and a couple of the local conflicts, we do not see that as creating a headwind for us. Of the 100 plus programs that we're involved in, only four of them have exposure in those conflicts. And as we think about, you know, weapon systems like switchblade 600 and coyote and GM LRS, high demand for those moving forward, they've demonstrated their efficacy and these current conflicts and will continue to be in high demand as we move forward. And so we don't see the lessening of the complex there as beginning to create more of a headwind for us. And as we look at our backlog, we talked about funded backlog. We ended, you know, it was up over 35% year over year. We ended the year at about 580 funded backlog. We're currently over 600. We see that continuing to grow. Last year we enjoyed a book to bill approaching about 1.4 times and would think that we're in that range moving forward. Strong pipeline of opportunities and confidence in our ability to conquest.

Perfect. I'll get back in the queue.

Thanks. Again, if you'd like to ask a question, press star one in your telephone keypad. Your next question comes from a line of Louis diploma from William Blair. Your line is open.

Tony, Mike, Jonathan, Stephanie and Steve. Good afternoon and congrats on the successful IPO. Thanks to Louis.

Appreciate

that

always.

Definitely. And in your press release, you highlighted Vulcan and New Glenn as contributors to your 2024 growth rate. And as you're well aware, Amazon is scheduled to launch its first batch of project Kuiper satellites tomorrow on Atlas V. And I think Atlas V is also a customer of yours, but from a high level, how should Carmen benefit as the launch cadence of Vulcan and New Glenn increases to support both the Kuiper constellation and the US DOD security launches and other and customers? Thanks.

Yeah, thanks, Louis. As you know, space and launch make up a third of our revenue and important market segment and like the others growing year over year. We've discussed before that we have secured positions on literally every launch platform moving forward. As Jonathan indicated, if it's going through the Carmen line these days, we have content on it. And what we know is that the continued launch manifests are increasing. There's a significant backlog for Kuiper and other military missions. So we look forward to ULA, whether it be Atlas V or Vulcan, utilizing GEM63 or the 63XL booster, New Glenn, Vulcan, Starship, Starlink, Firefly, Rocket Lab. If it's flying, we have content on it and it's goodness for us. And so we see that as obviously part of our growth strategy moving forward and we continue to secure additional positions on those vehicles.

I would just add that one of the factors in selecting the location indicator. So we hope that that will provide other opportunities for us to expand content with launch providers.

Thanks, Jonathan.

Great. And as a follow up, one of the exciting things about SpaceX and Falcon 9 is their ability to reuse their first stage. Do you have involvement in efforts from the other rocket launch providers for reusability and should you benefit from those efforts if they are successful?

Yeah, I would say certainly we do. I think we would all agree that the future of space launches, how do we maximize the hardware and reuse what is possible? But keep in mind that even with reusable boosters, there's a fair amount of content that needs to be refurbished each flight. And a lot of that would be the ablative composites and such that we're experts in. And so we look for opportunities on these vehicles and we're most helpful on those that are not reused in the mission. And so even though we're helping to design future generation reusability components, we also enjoy very much the need to replenish and replace the components that we provide.

Great. So there's still expendable content on reusable rockets. Absolutely.

And again, refurbishment of what does come back.

Great

opportunities.

Excellent. Thanks, everyone. Thank you, sir.

Your next question comes from a line of Ken Herbert from RBC Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Yeah. Hey, good afternoon, everybody. Ken, hey, maybe Microtony. I think you called out about 45% of the full year revenues from the first half. Just considering where we are in the calendar, can you provide any more specifics on sort of the first quarter, second quarter dynamics within that, within that revenue mix, first half, second half?

I think what I'd say is we'll be talking again in just about a month, just over, and we'll have a really good update for everybody at that point.

Okay. And should we assume sort of a similar first half, second half dynamic on the adjusted EBITDA, or is there any reason that would vary seasonally or as we think about the different quarters?

We don't see a lot of seasonality regarding revenue or EBITDA. And so that doesn't need to be a factor. I think by and large, you could probably be safe to assume a similar mix of that 45% of the first half.

Okay, great. Appreciate it. I'll pass it back there.

Your next question comes from a line of Jason Gursky from Citigroup. Your line is open.

Hello there. Quick follow up for you. Going back to the launch market, the Space Force doled out some awards here, I can't remember if it was earlier this week, late last, for National Security Launch. And we saw SpaceX and Vulcan and New Glenn get some awards. I'm just kind of curious whether the quantum of awards that ended up getting doled out changed your growth vector in any way based on what was awarded last week and whether from a content perspective, you've got more content on one of those three over the others or whether it's all pretty similar and all you need is to go up into the air. Just kind of curious your thoughts on those awards and whether that was either a good outcome for you all or indifferent, not as great as you hoped. Just kind of curious how it all played

out. Yeah, thanks, Jason. I would put it kind of firmly in the indifferent category. Keep in mind, we're building ahead in terms of the launch cadence here. All of the providers that we provide content and hardware to have a backlog and will be increasing. We've been, I'm going to say somewhat conservative based on their forecast of launches. As you look at some of the published numbers from either Blue or ULA in terms of how many a month. Our view is they may not get there as quickly as they would hope, but that's not for us to say. Our job is to prepare them for that. And so we've been building to their build and demand schedules. And so recent news relative to Blue's award and those recent awards does not change our outlook. Great.

Okay, thanks. I appreciate it. And that concludes our question and answer session. I will now turn the call back over to Stephen Gitlin for closing remarks.

Thanks, Rob. And thank you for your attention today and for your interest in Carbon Space and Defense. An archived version of this call, all SEC filings and relevant company and industry news, can be found on our website, -sd.com. We wish you a good day and we look forward to speaking with you again following next quarter's results.

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.