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spk14: We appreciate your time and patience. Please stay on the line and we'll be back in just a moment.
spk02: Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the SANS second quarter 2023 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants have been placed on a listen-only mode. We will open the floor for your questions and comments following the presentation. It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Mr. Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations at SANS. Sir, the floor is yours.
spk08: Thank you, and thanks for joining us today. Joining the call today are Rob Goldstein, our Chairman and CEO, Patrick Dumont, our President and COO, Dr. Wilfred Wong, the President of SANS China, and Grant Chung, EVP of Asia Operations and CEO of SANS China. Today's conference call will contain forward-looking statements. We'll be making those statements under the safe harbor provision of federal security laws. The company's actual results may differ materially from the results reflected in those forward-looking statements. In addition, we will discuss non-GAAP measures. Reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP financial measure are included in our press release. We have posted an earnings presentation on our website. We may refer to that presentation during the call. Finally, for the Q&A session, we ask those with interest to please pose one question and one follow-up so we might allow everyone with interest the opportunity to participate. This presentation is being recorded. I'll now turn the call over to Rob.
spk10: Thank you, Dan, and good afternoon. Thank you for joining us today. The powerful recovery taking place in Macau and Singapore is evident in our results. We believe it's early days, and there's still room to run in both of those markets. We continue to invest in both markets for our future growth. We do have a structural advantage in Macau based on our scale, As the market accelerates, we will be a major beneficiary in the future. Singapore continues to do well despite two impediments in the midst of a billion-dollar renovation, which does adversely to the results in Singapore. In addition, we haven't seen a full return of the Chinese premium mass segment yet. This iconic building has a very bright future. Cash flow recovery is in full bloom, so it's very, very enjoyable to say, yay, dividends. Let's go to some Q&A. First question, please.
spk02: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, the floor is now open for questions. If you would like to enter the queue to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad now. If listening on speakerphone today, please pick up your handset to provide optimum sound quality. Also, we ask each participant to limit yourself to one question and one follow-up. Please hold a moment while we poll for questions. And the first question today is coming from Joe Greff from JP Morgan. Joe, your line is live.
spk05: Hey, everyone. Hi, John. Rob, Patrick, Dan, and the team in Macau. I'd love to get your view on margins in Macau, both within the quarter and then just broadly, how are you thinking about it going forward? When you look at the months within the 2Q, was there a differential between margins exiting the quarter in June versus the first couple of months? And then related to that, I'm assuming you're under the belief and impression that monthly GGR can continue to grow sequentially. I would imagine in the summer months that would follow a typical sequential seasonal trend. And margins from here probably have more upside than downside from two Q levels. So my question is specifically this going forward. How do you think about the flow through on incremental revenue growth from here? And then I have a follow-up.
spk10: Yeah, John, starting in turn of a grant for the margins, I obviously do believe that the market is starting to get stronger. And you saw that in our numbers, our June results were the strongest, almost $200 million of EBITDA in June alone. So we had acceleration in the quarter. Our numbers, I think, speak for themselves. They speak loudly. Six months ago, we were virtually closed. On the month of June, again, we lost $200 million EBITDA. And visitation increases. And I think the visitation issue is going to drive, obviously, the PGR I just do believe we will be the beneficiary because of our scale, and $15 billion investment will pay off quite well. We have adequate room to run because we have capacity in every segment, be it gaining and non-gaining. I think a very strong advance in that regard. So, again, we think as the GGRs escalate for more visitation, we will be a major beneficiary. As to margin, Grant, I hope you're awake in Macau. Please answer that.
spk01: Thanks, Rob. Yeah, Joe, our margin obviously has continued to improve as we grow the revenues on optimal cost structure. Normalized margins up about 240 basis points quarter on quarter. And I think that will continue to rise as revenues continue to recover. We do have a more profitable business mix than 2019, as does the whole industry. because we have a greater proportion of mass relative to VIP. But recall, relative to the industry, we always had a much greater proportion of our GGR in mass. So 87% of our GGR this quarter is in mass versus 71% in Q2 of 2019. And also the shift between gaming and non-gaming. And recall, we're the dominant revenue generator in non-gaming in the industry. and non-gaming is rising as a percentage of our revenues going from 17% in 2019 to 22% this quarter. So both of these mixed shifts are positive for margin. We are obviously reinvesting our revenues back into the business to increase our capability to handle more visitors, chiefly increasing our headcount to service more hotel rooms. That's for sure one of the things that we've, achieved this quarter, where our room operating capacity was back to 10,700 rooms on average for the quarter. And as we go into the summer, as we discussed last time, we're heading back to 12,000 rooms in terms of our operable hotel room capacity. So that entire labor issue, shortage issue, has dissipated as an impediment And then in terms of intra-quarter, yeah, margins are related to the revenue recovery rate. And June was the standout month for sure for us. We recovered for the second quarter as a whole, as you can see, 85% of 2019 levels in terms of mass revenues for the second quarter. But in June, our mass revenue were about 97% almost at full recovery to June 2019. So the acceleration in June was really very cloud-based. We saw underlying visitation recovery, obviously, Macau visitation recovering to almost 70% of 2019. And all of our key volume metrics were up significantly against April and May. So a non-rolling drop increased 15% against April and May. in June. Slot handle was up 9% and rolling volumes up 10%. So across the board, we saw a very sharp acceleration in June.
spk10: Great. John also referenced page 14 of the deck. I think it's instructive to look at what's happening in the provinces beyond Guangdong and non-Guangdong visitations and lack of penetration. It's such early days in this recovery. I think if you look at 14, it gives you a really good snapshot of But we believe it's the beginning of a strong recovery. Hopefully this summer we'll evidence more and more return to pre-pandemic numbers and the non-guandong visitation numbers. That's going to fuel this business. As you know, we have the capacity of gaming and non-gaming to participate across the board. And that's what we believe will happen. That will impact margins, but also in our mind, that's an inevitable fact of Macau. Six months into this recovery, and we're still way behind in terms of visitations.
spk05: Great. My follow-up question is this. We've seen within mainland China more mixed macroeconomic performance year-to-date, and yet at the same time in Macau, gross gaming revenues, visitation, retail sales, pretty much most metrics have steadily improved. How do you reconcile the disconnect between China macro and the fundamentals on the ground in Macau, and how do you see that relationship playing out going forward?
spk10: Obviously, we prefer a strong macro economy in China. We're hoping for that in the future. But we can perform and will perform even if recovery is slower than our business. We'd like to see it come back quickly. But as you see in other businesses, you saw the LVMH's numbers, you see other retail numbers. The retail market in our business doesn't require everyone to be making a strong economic recovery. Certain segments can make it happen. But again, we're hoping for a strong rebound in China. and a stronger macro to also impact this positively. I still believe this market will continue to grow in spite of a slower recovery than we'd like in that region.
spk09: Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Joe.
spk02: Thank you. The next question is coming from Robin Farley from UBS. Robin, your line is live.
spk14: Hi, thank you. This is actually Artina for Robin. I was wondering if you could talk about average spend for a mass customer. and where you expect that to sort of normalize, thinking about the fact that a portion of higher spender in VIP obviously ends up in mass, but also that as you open up more hotel room capacity, that ramps up probably higher percentage of grind mass returns to Macau. How do you think about that more normalized spend per mass customer looking forward into the back half?
spk10: Grant?
spk01: Yeah, thanks for the question. I think you can see from the results that premium masks recovered still faster than the base masks. But sequentially, base masks still grew strongly on the back of improving visitation. And as you alluded to, I think as room inventory increases, we're able to cater to more visitors. I would say the spend per head directionally continues to be very strong across both premium masks and base masks. whilst obviously as the base mass picks up, you'll see more of a mixed shift, I think, over time. But within each of the segments, spend per head is actually rising. So we are getting high-quality, high-value tourists into Macau at this point. And also we're broadening this to high-value foreign tourism as well. So we can see strong results this quarter again. in terms of the high-end foreigners. So I would say at this stage, the higher-value segments are growing, recovering still at a faster rate. Base mass is picking up as visitation grows and hotel capacity increases. But within each of the segments, i.e., both premium mass and base mass, the spending actually continues to be very high, and indeed, the spend per visitor is heading in a positive direction.
spk14: Great. Thank you, Grant. And just one quick follow-up. With your dividend reinstated here, I was wondering if you could update us on your overall kind of capital return strategy and how you think about buybacks. Thank you.
spk12: Hi, how are you? So, you know, I think when we view the business in terms of capital allocation, we feel like we have a lot of good opportunities, really, for big growth, both in Canada and Singapore. And that investment will continue to drive our expansion of non-gaming amenities and drive our cash flow. But we also think that we're going to be able to return a lot of capital in the future. We were a very shareholder-friendly company in the past. We're very focused on return of capital. But I think when you look at our prior program and what we're looking to do going forward, I think we'll probably look to have more of a balance between shareholder purchase and dividends. I think when we thought about the dividend size, it was something that leaves us plenty of room for investments in the future. It allows us to grow over time, which is our focus, to really grow our asset base and grow our cash flow capacity. But it also allows for future share purchases, which is something we're motivated to do. I think the dividend size today gives us flexibility with our capital allocation. And really, over time, we tend to shrink the share count. You know, I think having a balanced capital return program is very important for us. We talked about it with the board. I think management's very focused on it. We'll probably look to be more programmatic about share purchase than we have been in the past. And I think really this gives us the flexibility to repurchase more shares over time and to really address our capital expenditure needs. So I think what we're going to try to do is allocate capital to growth, which we think we have a lot of opportunities that are unique for our company. Focus on the dividend as a correspondent of our program, as we always have, but allow ourselves to have more balance, more flexibility in the future to do more programmatic share purchases and really shrink that share count.
spk14: Thank you. Very helpful. Thank you.
spk02: Thank you. The next question is coming from Carlos Santorelli from Deutsche Bank. Your line is live.
spk04: Hey, everybody. Thanks. Robert, or maybe one of the guys in Macau, I was wondering, as kind of the market has shifted and you've seen a couple quarters that at least look more normalized, as operators who may have been more VIP-focused in the past or certainly more mixed towards VIP relative to you guys, Have you seen any change in behavior as it pertains to kind of mass reinvestment levels across the market-wide?
spk10: Yeah. Ray, I want to take that.
spk01: Sure. Yeah, thanks for the question. I think on the whole, we see a very stable competitive environment. I think all of the operators, the entire industry, is continuing to invest in non-gaming and diversification. and bringing about, I think, a really stellar events programming into the market, which is helpful, I think, not just for growing the tourism economy, but also increasing the business volumes for all of the operators. So I think you're seeing the positive results from that investment in non-gaming and events programming even in this past three months, not least in terms of our non-gaming programming that we put in place that's been really driving business levels and visitation. In terms of reinvestments, yeah, I think it's relatively similar to what we've seen in the recent quarters. Clearly, it's become, you know, continues to be actually always been a very competitive market in premium mass and will continue to be. But I think there's very rational behavior amongst the operators and the industry in general, led by the larger players. But as I said, the focus of the industry has been to reinvest in a non-gaming programming. And that's been a tremendous driver to the recovery so far.
spk04: Great. Thank you for that. And then if I could, as a follow-up, just in terms of the expansion at Marina Bay Sands, I know you guys were going through some stuff and reviewing some budget needs and design plans and everything else. Is there anything you guys could share at this point in time with how we should be thinking about that timeline, spend, et cetera?
spk12: Sure. First off, we have very strong feelings about the future success of Singapore. If you look at the results from the quarter, look at the visitation that we have, the type of customer we have coming to the building, the fact that China has not fully recovered. And if you look at sort of the nature of where Singapore sits today in any confluence of events in terms of the growing economies in Southeast Asia, we have a very strong view about the future of Singapore. It's very positive. And so we're very motivated to make an investment there and expand our capacity at Marina Bay Sands. Right now, we're in discussions with the government about what the final form of our project will look like. There's obviously been a lot of changes to the market in terms of market potential, the government's goals around high-value tourism, and to be fair, the way we want to grow into that market. And so there's some adjustments that we're making, and hopefully we'll have a better sense of what that will look like in the upcoming quarters. But right now we're in discussion, and hopefully we'll have a chance to continue with the final version of our project in short order. We're looking forward to getting started. Great. Thank you, Patrick. Appreciate it.
spk02: Thank you. The next question is coming from Stephen Grambling from Morgan Stanley. Stephen, your line is live.
spk06: Hey, thanks. As a follow-up from Macau, the $200 million number you mentioned in June, is that a clean number that you would think of to build off of given normal seasonality? Or should we see that build as base mass continues to recover?
spk09: What was the second portion of this last part, the last thing you said, recover?
spk07: I guess it's a question of as base mass continues to recover, how should it impact that 200 million number?
spk10: It should go up. I mean, honestly, I think that the reason we called that out was because obviously it's a strong month, especially in light of the seasonality of June not being a great month. Look, our position is simple. We think the cow will just continue to get stronger. And recovery is being predicated on visitation in all segments. And, again, our advantage, capacity to grow. Base mass, premium mass, rooms, retail, everything you think of the customers want, we have the product to service that. And that does represent some of our competitors. So I think June is the beginning. Hopefully the summer will be heaven to that. We'll see how July, August, September holds up. But our story is pretty simple. More visitation, especially more base mass, more penetration in China will yield bigger GGR and we'll be a huge recipient of that. And I think that's the story we believe in wholeheartedly. I guess I take comfort in the fact, again, six months ago, we weren't sure we'd be open. We had basically a closed business in December of 22. Here we are in the summer of 23, looking at a $2.4 billion run rate just based on June, and we believe that can accelerate. So we're firm believers in Macau. It always happens. We've never vacillated from our belief that market is just special. And the recovery in China is slower in general for all segments. We followed the week. But it's coming on now, and this summer will be a great indicator how fast it's going to get back to $26 billion, $30 billion, $32 billion. I don't know what the peak is, but I just believe the acceleration will be evident this summer. And again, we are in this very, very good position of having plenty of assets to put to work in Macau. Plenty of rooms. The rooms are all open. The retail is open and functioning. There's lots of tables. So as the market grows, we should be – big beneficiary from that new demand that's coming.
spk07: And so just to be clear, do you think that there was any kind of one-time benefits in June, whether it's Jackie Chung or other things that could have been driving that, so that may have been an outsized number, or you're saying that is a clean number to build off of?
spk12: So I think the key thing to note is that we've had these non-gaming, what we call lifestyle programs, which includes entertainment and other activations, for years, and they were very successful. pre-pandemic because we were able to connect with our customers and bring in very high value turtles in those high frequencies. And so we've started those programs again. And so the concert you just referred to was very popular. And I could grant comment on that or Wilfred comment on it. But I think the key thing for this is our non-gaming programs are working. That the investment in non-gaming, that the activations, that the driving customer visitation through social media is working. And so the visitation of high value customers close through on our results in that month. I think the interesting thing is air traffic to Macau and to Hong Kong is like around 50% of where it was pre-pandemic. So our story is one of visitation. It was led by higher value customers and premium mass, but now as people can begin to travel to Macau more easily, more frequently, they're starting to return, they're starting to consume all of our different amenities. Not only the hotels, but the concerts, the food and beverage, the retail, all of it's working. And so, you know, we'd like to believe we can grow from that number materially as our base mass non-rated play returns, as more premium mass customers show up, and as Grant said earlier in the call, more of our hotel rooms come online. So we think we've invested through the pandemic in very high quality products. The customer response has been very strong and we're able to price through it. So we'd like to believe that there's margin room there. We'd like to believe that as we activate our non-gaming activity that will draw more customers to concerts and other events. And then I'll continue to grow overall the desirability of visitation. Grant, do you have anything to add?
spk01: Yeah, thanks, Patrick. Yeah, I mean, as you rightly say, we've had a very long track record going back 16 years in terms of hosting world-class entertainment events at the Venetian Cote Arena. And this was always part of our lifestyle programming. Jackie has been terrifically successful in the past with us as well. He played in both 2017 and 2018 in the summers of those years. I think what makes this June special is, firstly, he played a record-breaking 12 shows across four weekends. I don't think that's ever been done before in Macau. But not only that, Macau was the first touring stop of the entire global tour that Jackie Chung has just launched. So that he chose to launch his new global tour at the Venetian Macau, I think is testament to both Macau's rising destination appeal, the importance of it as an entertainment hub regionally, as well as our own track record in partnering with Jackie and his team over many years. The month was strong, not just the days when the concert was on, which is nine months of the month. So it's a combination of factors. I think the underlying visitation to Macau, like Patrick referenced, was improving throughout the quarter and into June, even though it was into a traditionally weaker part of the travel calendar. Hotel availability improved, transportation improved. concert series undoubtedly played a part but that's just one component of the ongoing lifestyle program and I think that programming is not just done by us but by the whole industry and I think that will make Macau continue to recover rapidly and it speaks volumes to I think the new direction that the government is pursuing and I think is a great start to the new concession.
spk06: Makes sense. Thanks so much.
spk02: Thank you. The next question is coming from Sean Kelly from Bank of America. Sean, your line is live.
spk16: Hi, good afternoon, everyone. Good morning, Grant. So maybe I just want to go back to the cost side a little bit. It's probably for Grant, but if I caught it correctly, I think in an earlier question you said room complement was up to $10,700 on average in the quarter heading to $12,000. Can you just give us a little bit more color on that? Are we at the $12,000? Are we exit the quarter there and just What does that imply for, you know, kind of necessary either headcount or kind of cost ramp up from here? Is there a little bit more remaining or actually is this number that we saw in the quarter pretty reflective of kind of what you think the baseline operating cost should look like from here moving forward?
spk01: Yeah, thanks, John. Yeah, I think, yeah, you heard it right. It's averaged around 10,700 rooms a day in terms of our operable capacity from a labor standpoint during the quarter. we actually increased further towards the end of the quarter. So as we go into third quarter, we're roughly at that 12,000 rooms mark, which I said plus or minus, but typically there's always a handful of rooms out of order for maintenance, regular maintenance. We're effectively back at full inventory now and ready for the peak summer season, which is getting underway later this month.
spk16: Great, thanks for that. Maybe a similar question, but kind of transferring over to Marina Bay Sands. There, you know, we've seen kind of two quarters in a row with margins kind of in the, you know, 46 to 47 camp. That's still a couple hundred basis points below pre-COVID, and I know there's a lot going on there. I do believe in the slide deck you guys called out that some of the renovation activity was either over or close to. So maybe just an update on some of that renovation disruption and how we sort of, you know, exited the quarter there and just your thoughts on costs, which I think we're up about 10% queue on queue. You know, is there anything, as the full complement of rooms comes back, can we also see some margin leverage or improvement sequentially or going forward? And how should we think about that in the second half?
spk12: So I think what's important to note about really SANS, as Roger did in his remarks earlier, the building's under a lot of change. It's changed for the better. We're investing a lot, and we're creating what is arguably the best product we've ever had. And the customer response is very strong, but we're mid-flight in that. And so I think a couple of things to consider. Our biggest suites, so our 200 multi-base suites, are the last to come online. So that's what's going to come in this quarter and the next quarter. So the full potential of the renovated Tower 1 and Tower 2 will not really be reached until those suites are online. So we've been operating without them. So we'll be able to price better, we'll have higher margin, and we'll have like a larger quantum of cash flow from this high value segment coming into the building because they didn't have any place to stay. And now we're adding 200 suites of the highest quality we've ever had. So that's going to be meaningful and that will address let's call it some of the operating leverage we want to get out of our cost base. We've had a significant number of rooms out of inventory. And so I think between some of the cost increases that we've seen in the market for inputs, and to be fair, the gaming tax increase, there are some things we need to overcome through higher value customers, through pricing, and through volumes. And I think the one thing that's important to note, aside from the fact that we haven't had our most important room inventory available to us, our casino floor has also been under renovation. That's coming to a close. But most importantly, airlift from China is really back yet. And so when you look at play across the quarter from rated play from China, it's increased each month across the quarter. And so as China visitation comes back into the fold and our new multi-based suites come online, we will have an opportunity to price through some of the cost increases and improve margin.
spk16: Thank you, Patrick.
spk10: Thank you, everyone. I just want to say, Sean, I think moving to the labor side, I think margins will escalate because In every business, be it hospitality or retail, when you've got an exemplary product people want, you've got pricing power. And I think we're finished over there. It's taking a long time. It's a slug. But we get through this thing. The room product we offer, the F&B, the retail, rethinking our retail, you see this all over the map in terms of, you know, why does Hermes, Chanel, Louis Vuitton, you know, get these ridiculously high-priced items? They want the product. They offer a superior product. Same thing happens in the watch world. Same thing happens in the hospitality world. I think we're building something over there. People don't understand how good it is until you see it and understand it. It's going to be really special, and we'll be able to get pricing in every level, be it rooms, casino, gaming, retail. When this building is done, I'm amazed we're doing these kind of numbers with a ripped-up building. When this building is done, our pricing power is going to go to another level. I think that's where MBS takes a different gear. The margins always take care of themselves. as long as you have the product people want and will pay for it. And I do believe when you guys have a chance to get over there and see MVS and experience what we're doing, you'll appreciate these comments. It's going to be a pricing power issue. We're not going to cut costs. If anyone adds costs to it, we'll add more labor. We're going to have a really good product people want to be at. But that enables you to charge prices that are high. And I think that's our strategy. We're going to earn our way to success by offering a great product people can pay up for. It's just that simple. and margins reflect that in the day-to-day context.
spk02: Thank you very much.
spk09: Thank you very much.
spk02: Thank you. The next question is coming from David Katz from Jefferies. David, your line is live.
spk11: Good afternoon, everyone. Thanks. I know you've touched on this from a number of different perspectives, but I'd love just a little more help or insight in terms of how margins should evolve, specifically for the Macau enterprise in total? And, you know, just looking back at where normal was in 2019 and what a new normal could look like now, you know, how high the ceiling is, any qualitative perspectives around there and how we get there the next several quarters would be helpful. Thank you.
spk10: I want to grant take that question, but I do want to say, David, again, I think I'll use the words structural advantage. I think we're in this very different position than some people in that we were built for this market in terms of scale and size in every area of our business, you know, base mass, premium mass. We're still handicapped by the base mass size of what we've recovered. But I think our reinvestment in the last 20 years is going to make this product grow and grow. It was a margin in demand. I think we're just built for this environment. So I'm highly confident margins will rise with our increased revenue. Frank, can you help me call it?
spk01: Thanks for the question. We don't have a specific forecast on how high the margins will rise to. I think you can look at the structure of the business. As Rob says, we have an excellent structure in terms of our business mix. We have an efficient cost structure. I think the way you will be looking at this is you know, how high will revenues go? But it is true that the segments that are going to drive more revenue recovery and then eventually growing structurally will be the higher margin segments within gaming, mass versus VIP, and then also non-gaming versus gaming. I think non-gaming is recovering even more strongly than gaming. We're at you know, 93% of our 2019 non-gaming revenues. Our hotel revenues for the quarter are 8% higher than 2019 on fewer rooms being available. Our retail business is looking very strong. Tenant sales were up 28% this quarter, and that will continue, especially with unforeseen events. That's ongoing.
spk11: Thank you. And as my follow-up, with respect to share or purchases, Patrick, which you touched on earlier, obviously not asking for specifics around when and where and how much, but any color on sort of boundaries or accomplishments or how we might think qualitatively as to when we get there and when we can start to think about that in a more tangible way.
spk12: So I think we just restarted our return to capital program this quarter. I think it shows the board and management's confidence in the long-term performance in business. And we'll look to grow that dividend over time in a way that also allows us to have our purchase program. I can't give you a specific size about the volume of our purchases for the time of today because we still have a lot of things to plan for. But in our capital allocation thought process, we're going to think about it in the way that was described previously. I think what's also important to note is that we're going to have variability in our capex. We have a lot of large projects that we're considering. Some of them are more certain than others. We're very excited about Marina Bay Sands expansion. We think it's going to be an unbelievable asset. We're very excited about it. The timing may be a little delayed from where we are today. We're going to invest as much as we possibly can, because we think the growth there will be extraordinary. But we have other options, other things we're looking at, and the timing of that potential outflow is unknown, or if it's going to happen or The good news is we'll have the ability to modulate our CapEx based on how we grow the business and use the excess capital and return it to shareholders through share purchases and hopefully in a programmatic way. So while I can't give you an exact amount today, I will tell you our intent is to look at what's called CapEx for growth, CapEx for the future, a way to grow the business, look at the dividend program and ensure that it grows in an appropriate manner, and then look at a return of capital program through share purchases than a shareholder-friendly. But I think that's how we'll look at it. But as where we are right now, I can't give you a side yet. But we'll continue to look at it in the upcoming quarters, and we'll talk about it.
spk11: Okay. Appreciate it. Thanks very much. Good luck. Thank you.
spk02: Thank you. The next question is coming from Brant Montour from Barclays. Brant, your line is live.
spk13: Hey, good evening, everybody. Thanks for taking my questions. So on the VIP business, which grew nicely for you guys in the quarter but wasn't as strong as the overall market, can you just update us how important is this segment to you when you plan the next couple years? And then can you just touch on the current dynamics of the VIP market overall away from you and how your strategy compares to the broader market?
spk10: I'm sorry, Mr. First, but you said we didn't do as well as the market in the VIP?
spk13: VIP, quarter-over-quarter group below market-wide VIP.
spk10: I think we're very comfortable with going to VIP and the base mass. I think our portfolio is so well-rounded. Venetian is still the king of Macau. It's going to be the first place, the billion-plus dollars is earned defense-wise, and it shows no signs but to recover its previous position. We built a portfolio that is very well-rounded. The four seasons enable us to compete very well with anybody. The prune product there and the gaming products are pretty much unparalleled. Again, the London early stages were halfway done, the renovation, the full renovation was still a while down the road. But except for the sands, which I think we give up on the potential of a lot of growth being down there in the peninsula, that's still going to be a very difficult, challenging place to make a lot more money. The shift has been to Cotai, which, of course, all our assets other than Sands are there. We remain convinced there's more room to grow to the region. But I think our position on the VIP and the base mass is as good as it gets. We've got more suite than anybody else, more share than anybody else, and I think more potential to grow because of the sheer mass size of our buildings. Again, we referenced lifestyle. We built a business there with Jackie this month or somebody else next month, whether it's the best retail, the best restaurants. We built a lifestyle approach that I think puts us at the top of the heap in that area, both as a product offerings, but also quality of product. We're a comfortable going and have no reason why we can't grow and keep growing both in base and premium. I think the idea we're not a premium mass player is unfair and unjustified by numbers. Grant?
spk01: Yeah, I think on the VIP, our strategy hasn't changed. And in fact, obviously, the way the market has evolved in Macau for VIP, it fits our strategy more than ever because we've always focused on the premium direct segment out of the VIP. And we've historically had a very strong sales network around the rest of Asia. So we're working very hard bringing foreign customers top-tier players into Macau, and we're having, I would say, initially great success in doing so. Our foreign rolling volumes are already back to 2019 levels in the second quarter, obviously far ahead of the general tourism recovery from overseas markets for Macau. So I think it's anchored around premium direct, a very strong sales network around Asia, and a continued effort intensifying the effort to bring more foreign top-tier patrons to Macau. As Rob said, it's a great destination for all of those markets, and we intend to make full use of our great product and destination to attract those foreigners.
spk13: Great. Thanks for that. And just to follow up on CapEx, in trying to reconcile slide 23, this really helpful year-by-year build you guys do for us with last quarter, looks like MBS expansion, I guess, was temporarily taken off. You guys commented on that already. You added Londoner Phase 2. Want to make sure that that's new and hear any maybe thoughts about, you know, targets, return targets for that project. And then lastly um you know i think there were some reports from you guys or came from you guys through the media mid-quarter about a new hotel tower at the venetian and you know if that's a if that's a true or a plan i just curious if that's going to be included in the three and a half billion capex commitment that you've um you know agreed with the government on so uh just a few points we did take singapore uh expansion off because
spk12: Until we finalize the program and have final approval from the government, we don't know exactly what it will cost. So we're going to hold off on that until we have a project decided upon. In terms of the Londoner phase two, I think the great thing about the Londoner is when we first started, we actually did it pre-concession during the pandemic, and we built through the pandemic and into the concession renewal, came out on the other side, and the thesis was validated. It's incredibly well received by the market. It looks spectacular. Customer response has been very strong and we're excited about the result and that market validation was very important. And now we're going to roll into the second part of the building and really hopefully tap into the absolute earning power of that. Let's call it really well laid out, really thought through hotel offering and amenity offering. And so in our long-term view, that's something that will hopefully one day come close to the mid-eastern in terms of its productivity potential is there. Very excited about that opportunity. In terms of return targets, I think, you know, it's not something that we talk about directly, but in our mind, you know, there's a lot of potential growth in our deepest and most profitable segments, which is mass and premium mass. And so, you know, with the revised or renovated hotel suite, hotel rooms and suites that we'll have there, we think we'll be able to address the market incredibly well, just like we did with the first phase of the webinar. So I think that's kind of how we're thinking about it. And in terms of a new hotel tower, I don't think we can comment on rumors. I don't think that's something we're familiar with. I think for us, we're really focused on really delivering against our concession renewal requirements, investing in the non-gaming amenities that really help define our portfolio in Macau, and really drive incitation. So, Grant, do you have any other comments you'd like to add?
spk01: Patrick, you covered it very well. I think the Londoner success, you know, we've had the wholesale reinvention of the property's positioning. and the branding and the functionality. And actually, it's easy to forget that most of the hotel room accommodation today still remains the original Sans Kotar Central rooms as is half of our main gaming floors. So phase two is really about making Londoner more Londoner. We need to reposition and upgrade. Sheraton and the Conrad Hotels, as well as a comprehensive upgrade of the Pacifica Casino on the Sheraton side. And we'll be adding more non-gaming amenities and attractions to the Londoner, and many of which are also included in our concession commitments. More signature restaurants that have international appeal, state-of-the-art wellness center, other sort of lifestyle attractions. And then beyond that, over a longer time frame, we've always committed, since the concession of Retender, to developing this new landmark garden-themed attraction, the Conservatory, to be located in the gardens south of the London Resort. that will take a longer timeframe to develop. But first off, we're able to get right down to work on London Phase 2 on the hotels and the casino refresh because we've been working on this during the pandemic on the design. So we're now, as Patrick said, we've seen the product that we have come out with being hugely validated. And with the market recovery, with the return of visitation and the hotel guests, we're keen to get moving onto this phase two. And that's why we're able to start the actual construction in the second half of this year.
spk08: Great. Thanks, all.
spk02: Thank you. The next question is coming from Steve Wojcicki from Stifel. Steve, your line is live.
spk15: Yeah. Hey, guys. Good afternoon. Rob or whoever wants to take this, and Patrick, you touched on this a little bit, so this might be you, but slide 14, I think is pretty interesting, you know, around visitation trends during the quarter with Hong Kong back to, you know, actually above pre-COVID levels, Guangdong pretty much back. You know, the rest of China, though, remains well below pre-COVID levels. So, you know, wondering how you guys are thinking about the recovery in that segment moving forward and what you're watching. And I know, Patrick, you talked about air capacity. Is it Is it really just air capacity or are there other factors out there that might be holding that segment back?
spk12: I think one thing I do want to say is we're really excited about it. Seeing the visitation come back has been thrilling. Customer responses, seeing patrons from before, seeing new patrons. It's really a fantastic place. We were in Macau recently and there's great energy, great electricity in the city. So I think some of it is air capacity. To be fair, some of it's You know, let's call it the more mass player, the unrated play that the Venetian and other of our assets were so strongly set up for that really drove a lot of high volume and high margin business. All those segments still haven't come back in full. So between the airlift and, you know, if you turn to the next page, actually page 15, where it shows the visitation for 2019 and then compared to this last quarter, you can kind of see that we have a lot of room to go. We have a lot of patrons who will want to come back and see us. And they're just starting now to make their trips happen. So I think from where we sit, we have a great ability to accommodate these customers as we've done in the past. We have the capacity. We have very interesting non-gaming amenities. We have entertainment. And we think this is the most important tourism market in Asia and the region. And people are going to show up. We also have international visitors showing up, which is kind of a new thing. So I think the power of Macau is going to continue to grow and grow. But when I look at slide 15, I just see a lot of potential, and our team is working hard to try to capture that potential. Ran, I want to turn it over to you and see if you have any additional remarks.
spk01: Yeah, I was going to point to that page as well, Patrick. Yeah, Dan's famous page 15 on the penetration. Actually, you can see from the eastern China Yangtze River Delta region, especially Shanghai and Zhejiang Province, In fact, the recovery rate is higher than Guangdong's because I think you have better airlift, better propensity to travel cross-border from those source markets. And we've already seen a very big upward shift in the recovery rate of non-Guangdong relative to first quarter. So I think in the first quarter, when we're looking at that recovery rate, it was less than 30%. and now we're approaching 50%. So non-Guadon visitation second quarter grew almost, I think, in the high 40s sequentially. So it is coming back, as we said, as airlift improves, transportation in general improves, and also hotel room availability has been increasing and actually will be further increasing for Macau as a whole in the third quarter. We'll have some new hotel rooms coming online. So all of that, I think, is positive for the outlook for continued recovery in the visitation outside of Guangdong Province.
spk10: I think you guys just asked, the trajectory may be uncertain, but the end result is very certain. I mean, this market always comes back, and I think you watch the summary, and you'll see some very positive indications. I don't think anybody knows when or exactly why it's not fully recovering. in certain areas, but we just know it's going to recover. It's a question of when that happens. The result, I think, is unquestioned. Again, I hope this summer we show some strong evidence. I think July, hopefully we'll show a big number, the best number of the year thus far, and that starts to add to this recovery.
spk15: Okay, great. I'll leave it there, guys. Appreciate the color. Thanks. Thank you. Thanks, Steve.
spk02: Thank you. And the final question today is coming from Daniel Pulitzer from Wells Fargo. Daniel, your line is live.
spk03: Hey, good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for taking my questions. Just a quick follow-up, Rob, on that comment about July. I mean, is there any reason other than just the airlift capacity that we wouldn't expect that normal seasonality and the build-off of momentum that you saw in June, whether it's macro concerns, behavioral, entertainment, calendar? Like, is it really just, you know, simply airlift, or are there other reasons in particular?
spk10: No, and there's multiple variables at work here. I wouldn't want to, you know, pigeonhole airlift, economy, visa. I don't think we really know the answer to that. It's an agate answer that can't be unpacked completely. I do think, though, seasonality, summer's always been the time. This is the first summer post-COVID. I, for one, believe summer's going to prove very strong. Some business people boasting about what the joint numbers look like. Hope they're right. I believe summer will be very indicative of new growth in this market. And look, again, I think you have to look back on how quickly this is recovered. Six months ago, we were in dire straits, and now we're unpacking the $200 million month of June. So we're very bullish on Macau long-term. And again, trajectory may be uncertain, but end result's very clear. We're going to get there. We're going to make a lot of money in Macau. We hope we have more good news in the near future to offer to you. So I'm hoping for a big summer for the market.
spk03: Got it. Just one more quick one. We haven't touched on the digital strategy. And there's been some headlines lately that there's been some progress there. Do you have anything that you could possibly share? And as you just in high level, as you think about this strategy, how do you reconcile that with regulatory concerns, given your presence in Macau and your relationship with the government there?
spk12: So, you know, I think We said a while ago that we were going to invest in ground-up digital activities. So we're not buyers, we're builders. And I think for a while we've been working on a couple of digital initiatives. And I think the key thing for us is it's still early days yet. We don't really have much to talk about. We're very confident about it. We think long-term there's real potential there. But our focus is going to be on highly regulated markets. So that would mean Europe and North America. Our goal is to make sure that we maintain our regulatory standards in the best possible way, only working with partners where that makes sense, and being very selective. But in our mind, we're very focused on regulatory certainty and being in strongly... Someone put us on hold.
spk00: Sorry about that. So I think, you know, our view is that
spk12: You know, these digital initiatives have potential. We're going to continue to invest in them for the long term. We are committed for the long term. And I think our goal is going to be to focus on highly regulated markets.
spk09: Got it. Thanks.
spk02: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's conference call. You may disconnect your phone lines at this time and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation.
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