Las Vegas Sands Corp.

President of Investor Relations at SANS. Sir, the floor is yours.

Thank you. Joining the call today are Rob Goldstein, our Chairman and CEO, Patrick Dumont, our President and Chief Operating Officer, Dr. Wilfred Wong, Executive Vice Chairman of SANS China, and Grant Chom, CEO and President of SANS China and EVP of our Asia operation. Today's conference call will contain four statements. We will be making those statements under the safe harbor provision of federal securities laws, the language, On forward-looking statements included in our press release, NAK filing also applies to our comments made in the press today. The company's actual results may differ materially from the results reflected in those forward-looking statements. In addition, we will discuss non-GAAP measures, reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP financial measure included in our press release. We have posted an earnings presentation on our website. We will refer to that presentation during the call. Finally, for the Q&A session, we ask those with interest Please pose one question, one follow-up, so we might allow everyone with interest the opportunity to participate. This presentation is being recorded. I'll now turn the call over to Rob.

Thanks, Dan, and good afternoon. Thank you for joining us. Maria Bay Sands had a historic quarter, EBITDA of $768 million. We had forecasted that MDS could do $2.5 billion annually, and that may just happen this year. All the pieces are in place for this property to continue to perform. Mass Gaming and Slotwin did $843 million, reflecting a 97% growth from Q2 of 2019 and 40% higher than last year. Same quote. We are in the right place at the right time. Singapore is a very desirable destination, and our product is as good as it gets. It's difficult to find superlatives that describe the magnitude of this result. It is unprecedented for a single building to perform like Macau did $566 million of EBITDA per quarter. We have underperformed in this market. We have not addressed enough as it relates to customer reinvestment. We believed our billings would be enough. We were wrong. And so in the middle of the quarter, we changed our approach to enable us to increase market share and EBITDA. We will, however, be market sensitive. Our assets remain the strongest in the world. So London is open and moving towards our goal of $1 billion of annualized EBITDA. This new approach will create higher market share and EBITDA. At the same time, Macau's GGR accelerated this point with a very positive sign. Our goal is to rebuild Macau, and Macau knows Macau's increased GGR and our strong assets will enable us to deliver improved results in the future. Let's turn to Patrick for more comments.

Thanks, Rob. Macau EBITDA was $566 million. If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been lower by $7 million. When adjusted for a higher-than-expected hold of the rolling segment, our EBITDA margin for the Macau portfolio properties would have been 31.3%, down 80 basis points compared to the second quarter of 2024. All 2,450 rooms and suites at the lender grant were available for the last two months of the quarter. We are focused on delivering revenue and cash flow growth at the lender across the portfolio. Margin at the Venetian was 35.6%, while margin at the Plaza of Four Seasons was 34%, and margin at the lender was 31.9%. We expect growth in EBITDA as revenues grow and as we use our scale and product advantages, together with targeted reinvestment, to better address every market segment. Now turning to Singapore. MBS's EBITDA for the quarter was $768 million at a margin of 55.3%. If we had held it as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been lower by $107 million. There will naturally be fluctuations in hold rate in any specific quarter driven by game mix and player preference. The record financial results of Marina Bay Sands reflect the impact of high-quality investment in market-leading products and the growth in high-value tourism. We believe we are still in the initial stages of realizing the benefits of our investments in Marina Bay Sands. Turning to our program to return capital to shareholders, we repurchased $800 million of LVS stock during the quarter. We also paid our reoccurring dividend of $0.25 per share. In addition, during the second quarter and in July, we purchased $179 million worth of SEL stock, increasing the company's ownership percentage of SEL to 73.4% as of today. We believe repurchase and LVS equity through our share repurchase program will be meaningfully accretive to the company and its shareholders over the long term. We look forward to continuing to utilize the company's share repurchase program to increase returns to shareholders. Thanks again for joining the call today. Now let's take questions.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, the floor is now open for questions. If you'd like to enter the queue to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad now. If you're listening on speakerphone today, please pick up your handset to provide optimum sound quality. Also, we ask each participant to limit yourself to one question and one follow-up. Your first question is coming from Steven Gramling from Morgan Stanley. Your line is live.

Hey, thank you. Starting with Macau, I appreciate the acknowledgement of the shortfall somewhat there, but perhaps remind us of how you're thinking about turning the tide from a competitive standpoint and what KPIs or timing investors should maybe be thinking about in terms of seeing some of the market share go in the opposite direction.

I'll take that, Stephen. Thank you for the question. Around late April, we started to implement a more aggressive customer reinvestment program. And I think we're seeing some encouraging initial results from those increased levels of reinvestment. As we get into May and June, the performance of SEL did improve. And I think we will be continuing to adjust to the market conditions as and when necessary. We're also looking at opportunity for us to perform better from our smaller properties at Parisian and Sands. So overall, the reception to Londoner has been phenomenal. I think we're getting exceptional feedback from customers, and that's obviously growing nicely. But obviously, this quarter is still just the start. All of the rooms, as Patrick referenced, were available from late April, and we intend to continue to yield better at London and Macau. So that property has much further to go. And then the rest of the portfolio, we have to adjust our reinvestment levels according to the product and according to the individual product mix within the property. And I think this process has only just started and we'll continue to see, I think, improvements in our results as we have done since May and June already. And as you can see, we have a sequential improvement in our mass GGR market share of 8% for the quarter. And we intend to drive better improvements and also hopefully recapture that market share in the coming quarters.

So I just want to say one thing, which is we're not where we want to be at Macau. We feel like we've made great investments. We have great products. And we believe we can grow EBITDA from here. We're very focused on it. We realize we have work to do in our reinvestment programs. We have things that we think we can do to be more competitive. And we're going to take some action. And we think we have an approach that we hope in the long run will create growth for us, both on the revenue and EBITDA side.

So maybe one quick follow-up there just on Macau. You said you're not where you want to be. What does that mean for capital allocation in that market? You used to have a pretty healthy dividend payout and in that market as a percentage of free cash flow and earnings. If you go, I mean, should we be waiting for that turnaround to see you go back down that path? And if you start, you know, paying out a dividend, is that prior kind of ratio the right way to think about it going forward?

Yeah, so I think the key thing is that, you know, we've always been focused on return of capital, particularly with the dividend at the SEL level. You know, I think as we see the CapEx roll off from the lender, which was a very meaningful investment, that we feel will generate cash flow over the long term. We're very happy to make it. But that being said, hopefully our CapEx profile looks better in the future, as you can see from our CapEx expectations that we publish. And so when that happens, we'll look to return to increasing the dividend over time with the support of the SEL board. But for us, we think that the best use of free cash flow there, other than investing in growth projects, is to return it to shareholders. And you've seen how we've handled it in the past, and we'll look forward to doing that again. And I think the levels will be based on our expectations of cash flow production going forward.

Great. I'll yield to the floor. Thank you.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from Sean Kelly from Bank of America. Your line is live.

Good afternoon, everyone. You know, for Grant or whoever wants to take it, maybe we could just start in Macau. We did see across the market a bit of an improvement sequentially, you know, as the quarter went on in sort of overall market GGR. We've heard some mixed views about how either promotionally driven or VIP or event driven that was. So hoping to get a little bit of color on just what's driving that improvement, how sustainable you think it is, and just broader health of the macro in the market right now.

Sure. Thanks for the question, Sean. I think the market clearly accelerated from May, and June obviously was a standout performance, I think, held by the calendar of events that prevailed in June. If you look at the segment breakdown, clearly, as you can see from the DICJ data as well, the rolling, the VIP segment performed very well during the quarter and was up 26% year-on-year by our estimates. But the non-rolling and the slot win also improved, and we're still in a high single-digit growth region for the quarter. So I think there are some very encouraging signs. I think a mix between improved customer density, but also the calendar of events and the offerings by the operators helping to drive the increased patronage as well.

Thanks for that, Grant. And then maybe just to switch gears as a follow-up on Singapore, Rob, obviously just incredible performance on the numbers. I mean, over $750 million from a single building in a single quarter is kind of hard to wrap your brain around. Can you give us your best stab at how we should think about maybe a run rate or sort of level of productivity for this property moving forward? Are we sustainably above $600 million of EBITDA a quarter? I think we have a good sense of what your stretch goal here is at $2.5 billion core. But just help us think about it to level set expectations, given it wasn't a fairly easy comp on the mass market. And obviously, VIP, it can't be volatile quarter to quarter on the handle side. Thanks.

It's hard to predict, isn't it? I mean, I don't think we forecasted a $770 billion quarter. I don't think we have a clear view of if this is sustainable, if this goes forward. You know, it's proving there would be an amazing market, and we have the best assets by far in the market. So how high is up and how deep is that well, I don't know. I mean, the truth is it would be very difficult to dismiss these results and say we are now heading for $2.5 billion. Can we get to $2.6 billion, $2.7 billion? Can I continue? It's very hard to predict. It's not an easy market. There's never been anything like this in the history of gaming anywhere. You realize this thing, this run rate is a $3 billion asset. We don't expect to do that now. I think, yeah, 2.5 is realistic and doable. But I would not want to venture a guess. I wouldn't want to dismiss the results, but I wouldn't overhype them and say every quarter is $7.50. I think that's unfair. But could we do $600 million plus or $6.50? Possibly, yeah. It depends on how strong the economy remains over there and the super high-end markets there. And we dominate it, and we're kind of low in that place as far as the super high-end. So it could be that we're looking at a whole new world in Singapore, and we'll have to wait and see. Time will tell. We just don't know because we didn't see this coming this early. It's going to come later. But it's here, so deal with it. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from Dan Pulitzer from JP Morgan. Your line is live.

Hey, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. Um, I just, I wanted to go back and circle on Macau, right? It seems like you guys are going to be more promotional. You're going to get, you know, be focused on generating that EBITDA level. Is there a targeted EBITDA share that we should think about that, that kind of gets you to where you want to be just looking at the historical 33 to 35% EBITDA share you've had in that market? Or how should we kind of assess your strategy there and your KPIs for getting back to a level you think is appropriate?

I think we should take this one step at a time. Our goal, we acknowledge our failure in believing our assets were so strong we could overcome this very different environment we're used to. We've now jumped the water. We're not leaving the market. We're simply in the mix. And that's a good thing. I believe our assets, our short-term goal, And the New York Quarters is to get, we believe the Londoner and Venetian can generate $2 billion between them. We believe that the Four Seasons do $300 million plus. I'd say the Parisians do $300 million plus. We think the Sands can do $100 million more because things are changing down the peninsula. Our short-term goal, my goal, and I hope the team shares that, is that we can get to 2.7 billion run rate and come off the bottom here. I think at 2.2, 2.3, we're just not performing well enough. We have the best assets. So three things. Acceleration of GGR is very helpful, and the most important thing by far is that. Second thing is we have the best and the biggest assets in that town. The most from the best product. And third thing is we've come off our thinking. We've changed our thinking. So I'm hoping that Grant and team can see in the near future, you know, 600 plus, 650 down the road, and get us all back to the 2.6, 2.7 range. That's our short-term goal. Beyond that, the way the market matures, let's face it, if this market turns on the accelerate at this rate, we might see everyone doing much better. That would be the best thing for all of Macau, but I think it's very possible that happens in 25, even 26, 27. So this is just our acknowledgement that we did not do a good enough job in that environment, and we're doing it now. And we have full faith in our team over there and our assets to perform and get us back in the game.

Got it. Thanks. That's helpful detail. Just to follow up on Singapore, you know, is there any way to kind of wrap our heads around that sudden acceleration in those gaming volumes? Because it does seem like it was pretty concentrated on just the gaming side. And I mean, we're trying to parse this out. If there was new customers, maybe a reception for the property improvement and new suite product, anything in the event calendar, just, just trying to make sense of what's obviously, you know, you know, typically the seasonally softest quarter of the year here to be so strong.

I think a lot of it has to do with the product. You know, we spent the last couple of years reinvesting there significantly, uh, not only in the physical product, but also in the service levels and the experience that you can provide, provide to people. And the type of customer we have coming through the property and the nature where Singapore sits today, the growing economies, the wealth creation in Southeast Asia, it's all working. We have a very strong view on the future of Singapore. And you can see by the type of customers that we have coming in that it's not only a very strong market, but it's very deep. And so for us, yes, there's new customers coming in. They're attracted by what we have on offer. They're coming to Singapore to do business. They're coming to Singapore for leisure travel. And they're showing up at Reno Bay Sands and they're consuming. So it's great. It's a tribute to the team there and the investment that we've made and the way we execute. But really there, it's just a reflection of who's coming into the market and the fact that we provide experiences that are pretty unique and they're really taking advantage of it. We're a different building than we were five years ago. If you come and visit and you see it, you'll see the differences and realize that we attract a very high level of patrons.

I think you also have to give credit to the government of Singapore, which allows us to dream and excel. And with Patrick reference, that building was there last week for the groundbreaking of a number of our second buildings. It's an amazing place, but the market's also 4 billion Asian people at the very top end looking for an extraordinary experience and assets. We have them in spades over there. I think that the truth is that building is just the most desirable. There's a super high end and there's lots of them. There's a lot of people coming to Singapore. And propensity to gamble, as you know, is high in that part of the world. So we're just in a very fortunate position. I don't see it changing. I think we're in a very privileged position and hopefully it goes on for quite a long time. So we are not one to forecast that it's $600 million, $700 million, $800 million a quarter. But we know we're in the right place, right time with extraordinarily strong assets and excellent government support and a very strong market in terms of Singapore visitation.

I think one other thing that's important to note is we started to see some inklings of this as we started finishing the renovation. But now everything's pretty much done. And so we're starting to see the results as we build customer experience, And as they get to experience the property and see how it is to be there and the different things that we offer in this new format, and it's starting to show results. I mean, this is really just a direct result of the completion of the renovation and the type of customers that we can attract with the products that's there now.

Got it. Thanks. It's nice to see the investment there, Fruit. Thanks.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from Brant Montour from Barclays. Your line is live.

Good afternoon or good evening, everybody. Thanks for taking my question. So my first question is on Macau. I think from where we sit, it's sort of hard to... We see clearly a strengthening of the Chinese consumer in your market and gambling propensity. I was wondering if you could flesh that out a little bit and talk about a spend per visit improvement sequentially across either base mass or premium mass. We all kind of thought it would be a premium mass sort of recovery here in May and June, but looking at your slides, it looks like base mass per table actually did better. So maybe you could just provide a little more color on who's spending more where.

Hi, Brian. Maybe I'll take that question. I think overall visitation has been very strong. You see the results for April and May. but up by over 20% year-on-year. Obviously, a lot of that is driven by the day trip visitors from the Greater Bay Area. But nonetheless, I think that's helping to drive some of the base mass recovery. But no question, I think the acceleration in GGR is still primarily driven by the premium segments. I think this quarter in particular, the market benefited dynamics remain similar to previous quarters, but we're beginning to see also an increased level of visitation, albeit more from the Greater Bay Area in terms of daytrippers. And then, of course, from our results as well, sequentially, I think you alluded to it, clearly we grew quite significantly in the base mass non-rolling wind against Q1, and that's partly driven Londoner grant.

Okay. That's super helpful. And then just a quick follow-up on Macau. You know, the Londoner results clearly had a nice bounce here in the second quarter. And you alluded to in your prepared remarks that some of the other properties didn't do quite as well. Am I to read between the lines that the Londoner is the property that has received the most incremental reinvestment activity in and the other properties have not, and that's kind of next up in terms of your sort of blueprint or game plan here, or is that not the right read-through?

No, that's not entirely accurate. In terms of our higher reinvestment levels, that just went into the portfolio across the board. I think what we were referencing earlier remarks is that we may need to further, and we have been, further adjusting reinvestment levels during the quarter towards the end of the quarter for some of our smaller properties because we think those products, given the size and the product level, may need recalibration in the reinvestment levels versus the natural patronage that is flocking to Londoner and also the strength of the property like Venetian continues to be able to attract customers at all segments.

Great comment. Thanks, everyone.

Thanks, Brent. Thank you. Your next question is coming from Robin Farley from UPS. Your line is live.

Great. Thank you. Going back to the acceleration you talked about in June in Macau, it seems like it's driven at least a fair amount of it by the events calendar. And so how do you get comfortable that it's sustainable as you get past some of the July events and the calendar not being as sustainable in terms of events?

I think, Robin, the calendar is being filled literally every week, every month by all of the different operators, us included. The change from before the pandemic is really every operator is contributing to the event calendar. And of course, the big events brought in, whether by us at the Venetian Arena or by our competitor, is beneficial to the entire market when we have significant acts. And that will obviously not be a consistent pattern because acts come in different times of the year and different length, duration, and so on, but you can be sure that the calendar will continue to be filled with great entertainment content. And I think Macau has really been successful in establishing itself as a regional center for entertainment, be it from greater China artists, Asian artists, and even international artists.

Robin, I would just add to Grant's comments that I think it was last year, I wouldn't gave us credit in Singapore because Taylor Swift made the whole thing happen. She wasn't available this quarter. We still did pretty well. I think the truth is, I think she was, we couldn't get her to come. She was busy. But the truth is we have in the Cal, yes, lots of events, but I've learned over the years, events just rearrange the customer visitations. You don't necessarily create new as much as they rearrange when people come and go. And I think that that market is just showing strength to strength. I mean, June results, I think you just see a building And yes, there's no question that you have a Jackie Chung and some of these high-end entertainers help. But again, I think you have to look at the strength of market overall. And I believe it's there. I haven't been there last month. It looked, the first time, it looked a lot like pre-pandemic Macau. Very strong, lots of people at the tables. I don't believe the entertainers, even special events, actually create more visitations, rearrange when you come. So I wouldn't be that concerned with the event count, although it's chock-full of events. Everyone has entertainment these days and terrific restaurants and But I think you have to look at the overall results in the last few months and be very encouraged when the cow appears to be heading.

Okay, great. Thank you. And for the follow-up, just a quick one. Are you thinking about revisiting what you consider a normal hold percent in Singapore? And I know you just raised it in Q1, but I'm wondering if you're thinking about whether that 3.7% was high enough for normalized hold. Thanks.

I wouldn't let one quarter drive your thinking. I think you have to stay focused on. Again, this is a very, very difficult thing for us and other competitors because as you know, whole percentage is a moving target these days driven by who bets what and how. And so it really does move. As you know, the smart tables have enabled us to see much more clearly. It's a great insight to how the market should perform. I don't think we'll move our whole percentage right now until we see more evidence. It does change with the market and visitation and types of best customers make. The old days it was, you know, 2.85, 3.25. That's no longer in vogue. It's now very much a moving target depending on who's coming, what they're betting, side bets versus flat bets. I think we'll come back to you in the future if we need to reassess right now that we're fine where we're at.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from Joe Stoff from Susquehanna. Your line is live.

Okay. Thank you. Good afternoon. In Singapore, maybe a different attempt to ask a similar question that we've heard earlier on the call, but can I ask about just sort of mass gaming revenue and how strong it was? Is that simply a function of you know, better hold, is it increased visitation? You know, it's admittedly a, another question that just try to, how to bend, you know, try to benchmark with the newer product that you have in Singapore, how strong this number could be. Obviously VIP is, you know, a separate, separate category, different level of volatility, but you know, how much is there any way to disaggregate this number a little bit more for, for understanding?

I hate to say this, you know, I like to answer, but it's very difficult for us to do it as well as you. When you do $843 million up 97% pre-pandemic and 40% higher year on year, it's hard for us to get our hands around it. But there's an awful lot of people showing up in all these segments and gambling outsized amounts of money. And your question is a fair one. I wish we had better answers. How deep is the well? How high can this thing go? We're confused ourselves by it because we expected 2.5. I now think we can say we can achieve it this year. And I think it's a combination of incredible market, incredible access to, you know, people want to get there. The visa situation is helpful. And I think you're seeing the results of very, very superlative results in terms of building. The building is just unique and special, and there's lots of product. So I know it's difficult. I hear your frustration. We share it. We don't want to exaggerate this and say we're going to run $3 billion. We also don't want to underplay it. We want to accept the fact it happened, and it's happened now two quarters of a row of strong results, hoping for a similar second half of the year. And it's hard to model. I'd be blown with you. And I think one thing I would say, when you say mass gaming, premium mass gaming is alive and well in those numbers. These are non-rolling, very high-rolling premium. Don't consider these people betting $1,000 a hand. This premium mass segment, which is in that 847 number, 843, is a lot of very, very high-end non-rollers, which is different than past Macau. So I appreciate the commentary of your questions. It's very fair. I wish we had more insightful answers. But we keep watching this thing and saying, you know, we lost a quarter. It was amazing. But it just kept coming. And I think it will just keep coming in Singapore. Whether we beat the customers, a different issue, whether it's 3.7 or 3.3, we never can know. But the volumes look strong, and to me, it appears like we're in a run here that may last for a long time.

Gotcha. And then maybe a follow-up. You know, Formula One is pushing the fourth quarter in Singapore this year versus September last. What's the right way to think about, you know, whether or not the rest of the building can absorb, you know, that normal activity? Or, you know, do you view that as, you know, a bit of a headwind?

Formula One is always a great event for Singapore. It's something that we fully support. We're an integral part of. And we always welcome it. And I think our patrons really enjoy it. You know, a lot of visitors show up in Singapore because of this event. And for us, whenever it happens, it's great. So if it's third quarter, fourth quarter, we're happy with it. You know, we do our best to support the initiative around it because we think it's great for Singapore. It's great for arena-based stands, and the type of customers that show up are always very helpful. But in terms of being able to accommodate customers in Q3 or during Golden Week with Formula One, it's fine. Either way, it works. Understood.

Thanks a lot. Thank you. Your next question is coming from Chad Bainan from McCrary. Your line is live.

Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. Wanted to go back to Macau, Rob. You mentioned 2.7 as the near-term North Star, and hopefully that eventually moves kind of back to 3. But wanted to approach it from a margin standpoint. So Londoner had nice improvement in margin. You know, the collective... It was down 80 basis points, as you guys called out, and the flow through was obviously negative here for the quarter. But does margin matter as much in terms of how you're thinking about running the business or given some of the commentary that we've spoken about with promos? Maybe we shouldn't have a margin in mind just because of simple inflation and a different approach towards promo, or is that still the case to get closer to a 40% margin long term? Thanks.

So I think the key thing about Macau is that there's a very large fixed cost base in our property portfolio. And so our margin is going to be determined by how much revenue we can push through these buildings. And so if our promotional activity, if our customer reinvestment makes us a little less competitive and we have less revenue, our margins will be impacted. So I think for us, X hold, right, if you ignore the impacts of hold, If we continue to have the best properties where we have great offerings for our customers and great experiences, and then we reinvest in a more market competitive way, we think we'll still have the ability to drive revenue at an appropriate margin. And so if you look at the margin regime where we are today, that's okay for now. But if we grow revenues and grow the business, over time there might be some opportunity for some upside. But I don't think we're looking at a specific EBITDA margin in terms of our reinvestment guidance. Our reinvestment guidance is going to be based on the market and hopefully we'll go revenues based on our product portfolio. We put a whole lot of new products into the market this last quarter, right? The Londoner grant is a whole new building and the casino performance there has been great. We have tremendous slot performance coming out of the Londoner total portfolio. And I think for us, as you heard Grant, as you heard Rob mentioned before, We have some work to do. That being said, we think there's opportunities at the Parisian. We think there's opportunities at the Four Seasons. And even downtown at the Sands, we think there's opportunity. So while we keep pushing the Venetian and the Londoner, our segmentation has different reinvestment requirements. And we're going to keep looking at and evaluating the segmentation across the different properties to ensure that we can optimize for revenue growth and cash flow growth. And so we're not targeting a specific EBITDA margin, but we'll leave over time as we have the opportunity to grow revenues the margin will fall.

Margin does matter, but EBITDA matters more. And in any business, you've got to be sensitive to the environment you're playing in, and the environment there has changed. We weren't sensitive enough, so now we're going to adjust that, couple with our strong assets, and add that to a growing, a surging GGR. I think you have a good formula, but obviously we always want to be margin sensitive, but we want to be EBITDA sensitive too. So it's a combination. It's not a simple question to answer. Age building performs differently.

Great. Thank you both. And then the news that we've seen in terms of the movement from the Thai cabinet withdrawing the bill at this point for legalized casinos, I guess there's probably no update from your end because we're probably reading the same information. But anything to talk about there or any other potential developments that you guys plan to pursue outside of the two markets that you're in? Thank you.

I think we're constantly looking at new development growth opportunities in new jurisdictions. We're evaluating them as they come along. You know, it's something that we feel like in Thailand, there's a great opportunity there. If the legal framework and regulatory framework is appropriate, it's something we'll definitely look at and consider. As of right now, as you just mentioned, there's not a whole lot to think about.

Thailand is the greatest opportunity in Asia for what's left of those countries. But it's so hard to tell what's going to happen day to day. It changes. But it certainly is for anybody in our industry.

very important place if it ever actually comes to fruition thanks appreciate it thank you your next question is coming from lizzy dove from goldman sachs your line is live hi there thanks for taking the question um you mentioned earlier that the goal of the londoner is to move towards the goal of a billion dollars in annualized ebitda Curious timing of that, how much more reinvestment, promotions are needed to get there, and more sophisticated to get there.

I think we've only just started ramping up the property. If you think about the Londoner Grand, it really only fully launched from May onwards, so we're still in the very early innings of the ramp-up in Londoner. We're already running close to $800 million annualized. So we do see opportunity to yield higher and higher across all of the hotels in London and Macau, but especially London and Grand. I think Patrick just referenced there, we're seeing exceptional slot and ETG performance out of London already, way surpassing what this building was achieving in 2019. And I think we're seeing high levels of non-rolling table performance as well. And so as all these segments continue to grow, and we put higher quality customers into the suites and the rooms, we will get to that $1 billion annualized after all referenced. That's the goal. We don't know exact timing, but we're really only at the very start of the ramp up of the property.

Got it. That makes sense. And then just going back to the promotionality side of things, obviously it's something you've been kind of ramping up over the last couple of months. I'm curious what you've seen from Other players and how the competitive environment has evolved, whether they've responded with the same level of promotionality, whether there's been irrationality at all in the market, just what you're kind of broadly seeing in the response to that.

The market continues to be very competitive. I don't think the intensity is dropping at all. Each operator is fighting for a greater share of the pie. I think the main difference, of course, this quarter is that we also are in the mix now. in terms of reinvestment levels back to the customer. And we see the response and we see the initial signs are encouraging. And of course, it is more biased towards the high-end segments where the levels of customer investment is shifting the players back to our properties or we're gaining new customers, especially through the Londoner. So that process will continue and we'll continue to evaluate, but we don't expect the competitive dynamics to ease off. I think that will continue to be intense. But of course, a higher level of GGR and acceleration in the market growth will help all of us. Like Rob mentioned, that's still the single biggest factor in determining the results of not just our performance, but of the whole market.

Got it. Thank you.

Thank you, Lizzy. Thank you. Your next question is coming from George Choi from Citigroup. Your line is live.

Thank you very much for taking my question. So over the past several months, we've seen you guys took the side bets from Marina Bay Sands and introduced them to your Macau operations. And just recently, we saw you guys added a progressive jackpot to your background games in Macau, and we believe that those also brought in from Marina Bay Sands. So my question is, Do you still have any best practices at Meribase that your Macau operations can learn from?

It's a work in progress, George. Obviously, we trade information back and forth based on best practices. And we saw a lot of success in Singapore with side bets. I think we'll see them in Macau. And we continue, as you know, ahead of us. You're so on top of this, it's frightening. But congratulations. I think the truth is we're learning as we go. I'm a firm believer that these markets aren't that different in terms of customer activity. I think in the end, you'll see a lifetime result in Macau in time. It's newer to Macau market. It's no longer approved there. But we're really confident that this new era of smart tables, side bets, which is increasing whole percentage for everyone, all of our competitors as well, is highly positive for the industry and exciting for the customers. So time will tell how long it takes to see the increased toll percentage and how much they move towards side bets. But we're big believers in this. We're trying to be very innovative, as you alluded to in your comments, and how we view the markets and gambling. It's changing every day. We want to be leaders in that evolving process. Thank you very much for the great call. I'll turn back to you. Thank you.

Thank you, George. Appreciate it. Thank you. Your next question is coming from David Katz from Jefferies. Your line is live.

Afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. I wanted to start with Singapore where, you know, there's obviously significant investment coming, you know, for further expansion and, you know, things have started to finally really go well in the core building. And, you know, frankly, we've been waiting for it for a few years. I want to make sure, you know, one, there isn't construction disruption or, you know, what if anything, just to make sure, you know, could sort of impact the momentum that you have there in Singapore.

So just a couple of things. The site is adjacent to Marina Bay Sands. So in the renovation work we did at Marina Bay Sands in the prior years that you referenced, It was actually an actively operating building while we were doing it. So it's a little bit like changing your tires in the middle of an F1 race while you're driving. And so we did that. And so the good news is the building is, in terms of suite renovation, interior is complete. And we're starting to see the benefits of that in the results of this quarter. Our expansion, and we actually had a groundbreaking last week. Dr. Allison was there. Rob was there. Graham was there. I was there. Some other members of the LVS management team were there. And most importantly, the prime minister and the minister, Grace Foos, responsible for our portfolio, was there. And it was an amazing groundbreaking. And we're very happy to have the government support, and we're very fortunate to be in Singapore. And so, you know, this is a very important complex for tourism, for both leisure and business tourism in the market. And for us, any disruption is something we take really seriously. And so the good news is we have a little bit more than seven acre site directly next door, and it's its own site. And so when we build this, ultimately there will be connections back to Marina Bay Sands, but during the construction, it's not going to impact our ability to conduct operations. So unlike the renovation we just did, this is something separate and distinct. And then we'll bridge over to it during the construction process, but it won't be constructed.

Perfect. And if I can ask one quick follow-up on the strategic you know, evolution in Macau. You talked about reinvestment rates, but I wanted to ask about credit and whether that's, you know, a tool that you would be using and how that starts to show up. Does it sort of show up maybe later on and, you know, on the cost side of the equation? Is there any of that in there that we should be keeping our eye out for?

No, I think in terms of the credit-based play, of our overall GGR. Traditionally, and we've been doing this for two decades, we extend credit to some premium patrons in the direct rolling programs, but it has been a consistent practice of ours, and we're very experienced in it, but it's not a significant part of the GGR. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from John Decree from CBRE. Your line is live.

Hi, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. I wanted to ask Juan about your retail mall portfolio, particularly retail sales. We're seeing a little bit of acceleration in mainland China. It looks like in Macau, you've seen a little bit of lift in the 2Q as well. We got a lot of questions about the sustainability of GGR growth, which you've fielded already today. But curious if you could give us some thoughts on what you're seeing in the retail mall, particularly on the luxury side of things. Thanks for the question.

The retail mall tenant sales started to see a good recovery in the second quarter. So we were in positive tenant sales year-on-year basis. We're growing by about 10% across the retail mall portfolio in Macau. And within that, Luxury is still relatively weaker versus the rest of the portfolio. But we did start to see within the quarter signs that even the luxury sales were improving, partly because also we have been introducing some pretty amazing flagship stores in some of the key luxury brands in the portfolio. So you'll continue to see that being a feature of the Four Seasons more. beginning of 2026. So there are some improvements that we are making ourselves that should help to lift the luxury sales portion of the mall. But overall, we're happy to see that the mall is back in a positive sales territory, double-digit growth in the second quarter compared to last year.

Great. Thanks, Grant. Maybe if I could follow up with one big picture question about visitation. So Visitation from mainland ex-Guangdong, which you highlight in your slide deck, is kind of sluggish to recovery relative to the day trippers in the Bay Area. Given your room base in Macau, it seems like this is probably a pretty big opportunity. So I'm curious your views if there's an opportunity and what can be done to kind of help Macau start to penetrate deeper into mainland and see some of that visitation outside of Guangdong come back.

It's a great question. I think Dan in his deck has the breakout of the province's visitation as compared to 2019. It's on page 20 of the deck. I think what you see is, yes, you're right. Overall, excluding Guangdong, the recovery of visitation is still lagging. But within that, it's very uneven. So some of the wealthier coastal provinces and the major cities we are seeing recovery beyond the 2019 visitation levels, and some of the other provinces are lagging much more significantly. So I agree, it is an opportunity, and I think Macau and the operators are continuously doing the destination marketing roadshows across the different parts of mainland China as well as overseas, and that will continue. Transportation is is continuing to improve in terms of pricing and connectivity. And of course, the availability of hotel rooms. And of course, we've been adding high-quality inventory, as have some other operators as well. So we expect all of those factors to drive better penetration in the non-Guandong visitation numbers, especially helping to drive that overnight visitation, which is clearly the highest spending segment But that said, the overall hotel inventory in Macau is not significantly growing. So that will continue to act as a constraint on the overall overnight visitation. But I think what you see is a continued improvement in the quality of the tourism coming to stay overnight in Macau.

That's really helpful. Thanks a lot, Grant. Thanks all.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from Steve Wisinski from Stifel. Your line is live.

Hey, guys. Good afternoon. Most of my questions have been answered, so just one for me. So Rob or Patrick, as we think about Singapore, and Patrick, you mentioned you guys just started construction on IR2. But based on what you've witnessed over the last six months, eight months coming out of IR1 and kind of the crazy numbers that you guys have been putting up over there out of IR1, Has that changed your internal return assumptions for IR2 at this point?

I don't think so. Look, I think we generally have a view that marine-based sands in Singapore is an investment-driven story. And so the more we invest in high-quality assets, the better service levels we have, the more we're going to have pricing power, the more we're going to be able to differentiate our product, and the more high-value tourism we'll be able to bring in. And because of that, we'll get more revenue, we'll get more events. So you're seeing that happen this quarter in Singapore. It's the full power of our sweet products, the full power of our food and beverage offerings, our mice offerings. Everything's really coming together, all the entertainment we do, the high level of service. We have a great premium mass customer base there. Look, the shopping, all the other things that we've added, it's really a very unique lifestyle program that we offer to people. And so for us, IR2 is just an extension of that. You know, look, our goal is to have the best hotel in the world there, to have the best gaming experience, the best food and beverage, and then have this live entertainment venue, the likes of which we've never had before in terms of to be able to drive customer visitation. So we feel very strongly about this. You know, it's a $6 billion investment, $2 billion of premium that we have to pay the government. And we feel very strongly about the quality of that investment at work and government. So adjustment in models is not where we're at now. It's a very long way away. You know, we've got a couple of years before it opens, but in our minds this quarter, and actually to be fair, what we'll be seeing in the quarters leading up to this in terms of the high quality of patron that we have just validates the fact that we feel very strongly this will be a high quality investment. And so while we haven't adjusted our models in any formal way, I think this just validates long-term in our minds the quality of the market and the strength of Singapore. Okay, gotcha. Appreciate that, Patrick. Thanks, Steve.

Thank you. That completes our Q&A session. Everyone, this concludes today's event. You may disconnect at this time and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation.