8/8/2025

speaker
Shamali
Investor Relations

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining today's call to discuss Mock Natural Resources Second Quarter 2025 Financial and Operational Results. During this morning's call, the speakers will be making forward-looking statements that cannot be confirmed by reference to existing information, including statements regarding expectations, projections, future performance, and the assumptions underlying such statements. Please note, a number of factors will cause actual results to differ materially from their forward-looking statements including the factors identified and discussed in their press release and in other SEC filings. For a further discussion of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ from those in such forlorn statements, please read the company's annual report on Form 10-K, which is available on the company's website or the SEC's website. Please recognize that, except as required by law, they undertake no duty to update any forlorn statements and you should not place under reliance on such statements. They may refer to some non-GAAP financial measures in today's discussion. For reconciliation from non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures, please reference their press release and supplemental tables, which are available on MOC's website, and their TANQ, which will also be available on the website when filed. Today's speakers are Tom Ward, CEO, and Kevin White, CFO. Tom will give an introduction and overview. Kevin will discuss Mock's financial results, and then the call will be open for questions. With that, I'll turn the call over to Mr. Tom Ward. Tom.

speaker
Tom Ward
Chief Executive Officer

Thank you, Shamali. Welcome to Mock Natural Resources' second quarter earnings update. Each quarter, it is important to reiterate the company's four strategic pillars. These are, number one, maintain financial strength. Our goal is to have a long-term debt to EBITDA ratio of one times leverage. We believe maintaining a turn of leverage is appropriate to give ourselves opportunities when markets experience high volatility. We accomplished the ICAB and Sabinol purchases by having low leverage. Sabinol provides us with long-term upside potential to oil markets priced in the low 60s. We feel that this price is not sustainable very far into the future and that ultimately crude prices will rise even if the near-term outlook is negative. If the OPEC Plus announcement of bumper oil supply increases comes to pass, we want to stay in a position to capitalize on more crude oil purchases. In the case of ICAB, we purchased an existing natural gas cash flow stream that is heavily hedged with tremendous upside to market demand in the future and nearly unlimited growth opportunities in the San Juan Basin. Both acquisitions were made because our balance sheet was in pristine condition. We also see headwinds ahead for the natural gas prices as we enter the winter season with full storage and growing supply along with additional takeaway capacity being added before further demand develops in 2026. Therefore, we see continued opportunity to add to our portfolio as long as we maintain our leveraged goals. Number two, disciplined execution. We acquire only cash flowing assets at a discount to PDP PV10 that are also accretive to our distribution. We now have initiated 24 acquisitions, spending more than $3 billion. In every case, we have maintained this execution strategy. This strategy has allowed us to build an acreage base that will be nearly 3 million acres in size with multiple areas that have high rates of return drilling locations that are held by production. We believe that MOC is unique in this regard. Number three, disciplined reinvestment rate. We maintain a reinvestment rate of less than 50% of our operating cash flow. By keeping our reinvestment rate low, we optimize our distribution to unit holders. MOC is also unique in being able to maintain our production with an industry-leading reinvestment rate due to emphasizing our second pillar of disciplined execution. Our entry in the San Juan and Permian basins will move our decline to 15% from 20% through buying low-decline cash-flowing assets. This allows us to enhance our operating cash flow and maintain our production during periods of low prices while looking for areas to purchase if markets become destabilized. However, during periods of high prices, we can use our enhanced cash flow to reinvest more in drilling and grow production during those periods. MOC is positioned well to thrive in both scenarios by being able to pivot from acquisitions during higher prices to drilling of high return locations that are waiting for us with no expiration dates. The ICAB acquisition is an example of this. In the San Juan, we're acquiring more than 500,000 acres of land that is held by production. If natural gas prices remain elevated, we can switch away from drilling crude oil locations to more natural gas focused sites. We are planning to implement this strategy in 2026 by using the spring and summer drilling season with three rigs searching for natural gas in San Juan during drilling for the Mancos Shell, dry gas, and the Fruitland Coal. At today's strip, we plan to maintain our production volumes through 2027 while spending less than 50% of our operating cash flow and using some of the excess to pay down debt. We project increasing our natural gas volumes at 70% post the Savinaw ICAB acquisitions, and for the first time since our inception, project natural gas to be at least 50% of our revenue stream starting in 2026. All of the main pillars lead to the fourth and most important, delivering industry-leading cash returns on capital invested through distributions to our unit holders. With our announced distribution of 38 cents per unit in the second quarter, we have sent back $4.87 per unit to our unit holders since our public offering in October 2023, and more than $1.2 billion in total since inception in 2018. All the while, we have grown our business to more than $3.5 billion of enterprise value without selling any material assets while maintaining a cash return on capital invested more than 30% per year over the past five years. Even in this year, with crude prices moving down, we're expecting to have a 25% return on capital invested and have never been less than 20% since our company was founded. Post the ICAB and Sabino acquisitions, we anticipate having leverage just above one times. However, we'll work diligently to bring back our leverage to our desired goal by presenting a clear path of reducing our debt levels. We will resist the opportunity to acquire other assets that would lead to moving our leverage higher. Our goal is to continue to look for free cash flowing assets where private equity-backed sponsors need to move towards a more liquid currency by taking our equity. In these circumstances, we see the opportunity to increase our operating cash flow, while expanding our drilling budget on our vast acreage. We also continue to be able to purchase small acquisitions in the mid con that fit our goals by using cash on hand. By sticking to our model reinvesting only 50% of our cash flow, we can keep our production flat to slightly growing, while expanding our distributions per unit. Our drilling plans for 2026 revolve around adding to our natural gas mix. We currently plan to have two deep Anadarko dry gas rigs running. These locations are targeting natural gas of a depth of approximately 15,000 feet, true vertical depth. We then project to drill another 15,000 feet of horizontal length. These drills will cost approximately $14 million and find between 15 to 20 BCF of gas and have returns in excess of 50% at today's crisis. We'll also focus on the San Juan during the summer drilling season. In the San Juan, we plan to have three rigs running in 2026. The Mancos Dry gas play is targeting three-mile laterals at a true vertical depth of approximately 7,000 feet. We plan to spend approximately $15 to $16 million per location to find 15 to 20 BCF of gas and have a return of greater than 50%. The deep end of Darko and the San Juan gas plays are just developing. Both are known to be prolific gas areas that have not been extensively drilled since the onset of enhanced drilling procedures with large stimulations due to the previous decade of low natural gas prices. MOC has hundreds of thousands of acres across the place to review and bring to market with no time pressure to be implemented without losing our acreage. We also plan to have one drilling rig drilling the Fruitland Coal. This development is ongoing in the San Juan with rigs targeting the coal between older vertical wells by drilling multiple laterals from one wellbore. The target is shallow at 2,000 feet, and we anticipate having 5,000 to 8,000 feet of lateral in each wellbore. These locations are expected to cost approximately $3 million and have returns in excess of 50%. Lastly, we plan to move back into the Oswego to continue our drilling program that was started in 2021. We've drilled more than 250 wells in the Oswego, where a one-and-a-half-mile lateral costs less than $3 million, and even at today's distressed oil pricing, has returns approaching 40%. Our second deep anadarko rig is projected to spud in early September. The Oswego locations are projected to start in early 2026, and the San Juan rig should move in in early spring 2026. Our focus on gas development through 2026 is driven not only by the current price environment, but also by how we see demand over the next five years. We see total demand growth of upwards of 25 BCF of gas per day by 2030. This is broken down to the following. 15.6 BCF per day of LNG feed gas growth. This includes the facilities under construction in Mexico, which will be an additional outlet for U.S. production and And our San Juan purchase is well positioned to meet West Coast demand. Six BCF per day of power generation growth is a conservative estimate, but it should be acknowledged that two to four BCF of power generation growth will be from the data centers located in Texas, Colorado, the desert southwest, and California. Thus, the San Juan acreage is also strategic and well positioned to meet this upcoming demand. 1.1 BCF per day of demand growth from commercial and industrial, and 1.4 BCF a day of growth from exports to Mexico. We see supply of 6 BCF a day from the Permian associated gas growth, which is at risk if prices remain soft. 15 BCF per day of supply growth in the Hainesville and the Northeast in response to LNG and data center demand. This leaves the Eagleford, MidCon, and San Juan Rockies as the natural supply growth areas to meet demand. We see the current processing capacity of approximately 4 BCF a day in the San Juan and nearly 16 BCF a day at MidCon to meet the ongoing demand requirements needed to fuel or enhance consumption of U.S. natural gas. During the quarter, Mock drilled 10 total wells consisting of 6 Oswego, 3 Woodford Mist condensates, and one red fork location. We're currently drilling one red fork and one deep Anadarko dry gas well. These rigs are located in Dewey and Custer Counties, Oklahoma. In our Oswego program, we averaged 9,850 feet per lateral, our longest locations to date. These locations average 3.6 million per well. MOC drilled three locations in the Woodford Mist Program, including the Brockland 3MH, which was drilled to a total depth of 30,384 feet. The Brockland 3MH is waiting on completion alongside the Brockland 2MH, which is drilling currently. Both locations will be completed together starting later this month. In the Woodford Miscondensate area, we drilled two locations that averaged 10,240 feet of horizontal sections. Our operation goals for Q3 2025 are to continue to refine and reduce our days on location in our deep Anadarko drilling program while increasing our rig count from one to two starting in mid-September. We continue to keep our lease operating costs low at $6.52 per barrel and look forward to closing both the Savadol and ICAB asset purchases to start to work on reducing costs. We're not certain there are additional places to cut LOE. However, in our previous 22 acquisitions, we've reduced LOE by between 25% to 33% each. With that, I'll turn the call over to Kevin for the financial results.

speaker
Kevin White
Chief Financial Officer

Thanks, Tom. For the quarter, our production of 84,000 BOE per day was 23% oil. 53% natural gas and 24% NGLs. Our average realized prices were $63.10 per barrel of oil, $2.81 per MCF of gas and $22.41 per barrel of NGLs. Worth noting, pre-hedge realized prices were lower by 11%, 21% and 17% for oil, gas and NGLs compared to the first quarter of this year. Of the $219 million total oil and gas revenues, the relative contribution for oil was 51%, 31% for gas, and 18% for NGLs. On the expense side, our lease operating expense totaled $50 million, as Tom mentioned, $652 per BOE. Cash G&A was only $7 million, 88 cents per BOE. We ended the quarter with $13.8 million in cash, and we had drawn $565 million on our $750 million revolver. In conjunction with our plan to close the ICAB and Sabinal acquisitions, we are in the latter stages of expanding our RBL and expect the borrowing base and commitments to nearly double from its current amount and to add a handful of new banks to the syndicate. Total revenues, including our hedges and midstream activities, totaled $289 million, adjusted EBITDA of $122 million and $130 million of operating cash flow. We had development CapEx of $64 million during the quarter. We also had a reduction of cash available for distribution of $8.2 million due to a settlement of royalty owner legal dispute. We generated $46 million of cash available for distribution, resulting in an approved distribution of 38 cents per unit, which will be paid out on September 4th to record holders as of August 21st. Shamali, I will now turn the call back to you to open the line for questions.

speaker
Shamali
Investor Relations

Thank you. We will now be conducting a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star 2 to remove yourself from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up the handset before pressing the star keys. One moment, please, while we pull for questions. Our first question comes from the line of Charles Mead with Johnson Rice. Please proceed with your question.

speaker
Charles Mead
Analyst, Johnson Rice

Good morning, Tom and Kevin. Morning. Tom, your production volumes were a little higher than I was looking for, and I think a lot of people on the street were looking for. So I was wondering if you could – tell me if there's any you know what what part of the you know the legacy mid-con portfolio delivered uh or you know maybe you can say it looks like a beat uh it surprised us was it a surprise to you and and what parts of the uh of the portfolio really uh were you know had the strength and uh was it perhaps related to some of these recent wells that you've uh that you spoke about in your prepared comments

speaker
Tom Ward
Chief Executive Officer

No, Charles, just normal operations. Our production is doing well. We had a couple of bolt-on acquisitions that might have enhanced some of the production, but basically all areas are running pretty well. We have a great operations team and continue to keep our locations working with a lot of work over, so we just... I would say our operations team just does an excellent job focusing on business, but nothing out of the ordinary.

speaker
Charles Mead
Analyst, Johnson Rice

Got it. Okay, thank you. And then, Tom, going back to the – you gave us a lot of detail in your prepared comments, and I was intrigued by this Brocklin 3MH well. Is that one of the sort of the deep Anadarko – uh targets that you were talking about earlier that you know 14 million dollar well cost uh targeting 15 to 20 bcf is and maybe you can tell me if those two are connected and then maybe give us a a timeline for when you're going to complete the brockland yes uh we're drilling the second location currently on a two well pad i will do a zipper frack between the two locations that will start in um later this month to early september Thank you.

speaker
Shamali
Investor Relations

You bet. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Derek Whitfield with Texas Pacific Land Corporation. Please proceed with your question.

speaker
Derek Whitfield
Analyst, Texas Pacific Land Corporation

Good morning, guys, and thanks for your time.

speaker
Shamali
Investor Relations

Hey, Derek.

speaker
Derek Whitfield
Analyst, Texas Pacific Land Corporation

For my first question, I wanted to focus on distribution this quarter. Despite the strength of operations this quarter in production, and Charles just covered that, there were a series of one-time events that led to a lower payout than the cash flow minus CapEx would imply. Could you perhaps add some color to those developments for the benefit of investors?

speaker
Kevin White
Chief Financial Officer

Sure, Derek. I think we've kind of narrowed it down for ease of digestion here. You know, the legal settlement, again, it's a fairly ordinary type of litigation, I guess, in our business that we see frequently. It's Not that ordinary for us, but we did reach a settlement with the royalty owner dispute on deductions that we were making from their revenue, and our share of that settlement was roughly $8.2 million. So that reduced the distribution by 7 cents per unit. And then the second part of that, really, it comes down to gas prices, lower gas prices this quarter, and I'm comparing this to the first quarter, you know, and also really where consensus is out there, results in another seven cent reduction from, you know, had we had prices similar to the first quarter or also kind of versus looking at the consensus analyst estimates that are out there. And then I think maybe the Panhandle Eastern Basis differential maybe was a little bit unique versus other basins across the country and that we had basis widened during the second quarter. And again, that, you know, may not have been, that kind of happened real time as we went through the quarter and probably, you know, wasn't captured, I think, in a lot of analysts' estimates of the quarter.

speaker
Derek Whitfield
Analyst, Texas Pacific Land Corporation

Great. Thanks, Kevin. And then as my follow-up, I wanted to focus on your growth profile. As we layer in recent transactions and your deep misactivity, we're backing into a fairly material natural gas growth trajectory that could exceed 650 million cubic feet per day in 2026. That's quite a bit above consensus. Is that a fairly fair depiction of the production profile as you guys see it?

speaker
Tom Ward
Chief Executive Officer

Yes, so we see our natural gas product mix moving north of 70 percent in 2026, and up closer to 75% in 2027. So, yeah, as we drill, that's assuming we'll continue to have a robust natural gas market, which we do believe, even though we see near-term headwinds, we want to be long natural gas in late 26 and into 27. We're very strong bulls. Just the amount of gas coming through the fill season this year leaves us in a precarious place, in my opinion, that that we'll be moving into the fall and winter season with full storage and a couple of new pipelines coming on ahead of demand. But once demand hits in 2026, then we do want to be long gas, which we're just making all that to say is we're making an assumption we'll continue to drill natural gas wells. But stand alone right now without making other acquisitions, yes, we see ourselves moving up from a, from a product mix to substantially above 70% natural gas.

speaker
Derek Whitfield
Analyst, Texas Pacific Land Corporation

We agree with your views, Tom. And maybe just one build on that just for the benefit of clarity. When you look at your gas production base, you guys, as I understand, have quite a bit of that undedicated today. So you can materially steer that and benefit in a much higher gas price environment than some of your peers. Is that a fair depiction as well?

speaker
Tom Ward
Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, I don't know as compared to our peers, but yes, we do have a large amount of dedicated.

speaker
Derek Whitfield
Analyst, Texas Pacific Land Corporation

Terrific. Thanks, guys.

speaker
Shamali
Investor Relations

Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of John Freeman with Raymond James. Please proceed with your question.

speaker
John Freeman
Analyst, Raymond James

Good morning. Thank you. You know, when we look at the portfolio that you all built, which is, you know, anchored on these, you know, very stable low decline rates, And now you've got this, you know, exciting opportunity with the makers, as well as what's emerging with the dark or deep gas. And I'm just interested in your thoughts and kind of how you balance those two aspects of your portfolio with kind of the legacy proven low decline assets with now like this and an emerging growth play like the makers.

speaker
Tom Ward
Chief Executive Officer

John, are you asking how we found them?

speaker
John Freeman
Analyst, Raymond James

No, no, no. I'm sorry. Just how you balance the portfolio between you've got these exciting growth plays that require obviously steeper decline rates, you know, more capital, just sort of the development process of these emerging plays versus, you know, your stable, very low decline rate type assets. You know, they've sort of been the foundation of the company.

speaker
Tom Ward
Chief Executive Officer

Yeah. So it all just ties together with our reinvestment rates. So the, we, we, We want to spend 50%. We don't want to spend 20% or 30% or 40%. We like to spend close to 50% of our operating cash flow that keeps our production flat. And the only way you can do that is to have that long life. the balanced portfolio, as you mentioned, of low-decline production that we built over the years, that then allows us to reinvest only 50% in the higher rates of return drilling that the Mancos now and the Deep Anadarko especially, and I guess the Fruitland Coal is probably the best of the group as far as just infield drilling and rates of return. But Whenever we put that all together, it just gives us a lot of flexibility. We can pivot from oil to gas. We can move back to oil if prices change. We have 3 million acres of high return drilling locations that we can choose from. So we're in a really ideal situation that we built ourselves now down to a 15% decline that we can continue to grow our production using only 50% of reinvestment rate and choose what rate of return we want and have no real long-term contracts that keep us beholden to drill one particular area over the other. And we don't have any lease expirations. So we truly are able to move around rigs as we want within 30 days.

speaker
John Freeman
Analyst, Raymond James

That's great. And then the gas differential kind of widened out a good bit this quarter that y'all highlighted earlier. I believe y'all have taken some kind of recent steps on the gas marketing side to possibly improve that going forward. Maybe if you could just sort of elaborate on that.

speaker
Tom Ward
Chief Executive Officer

Oh, I don't think so. I think that basically we are at the mercy of Panhandle Eastern for most of our mid-con gas. And so if basis widens, our basis widens, we don't hedge basis. Maybe Kit's getting ready to say something. Do you want to take it?

speaker
Unidentified Speaker

Yeah, hey, John. You know, we were talking a little bit about GP&T expense running a little higher due to new treatments. Certain costs, certain marketing costs related to the Paloma Wells. We had a marketing agreement with kind of a third-party intermediary, and we chose to get out of that agreement and fold in those volumes with Paloma. kind of the bigger, larger group that we've marketed gas with for years.

speaker
Tom Ward
Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, so we use NextEra. Right. Right.

speaker
Kevin White
Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, we'll get better pricing with NextEra than we had with the previous intermediary.

speaker
Tom Ward
Chief Executive Officer

Yes, okay. I didn't know where you were going with that. But, yes, NextEra has been a good partner with us.

speaker
John Freeman
Analyst, Raymond James

That's great. That makes sense. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it.

speaker
Shamali
Investor Relations

Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes in line of Michael C. Scalia with Stevens Inc. Please proceed with your question.

speaker
Michael C. Scalia
Analyst, Stevens Inc.

Hi, good morning, guys. I wanted to just talk about 2026. I realize it all depends on where oil and gas prices go, but based on what you're thinking right now, it sounds like the three rigs in the San Juan will drill springtime through summer. I think there's a limited drilling window there. You keep the two rigs deep rigs in the Anadarko and then one on the Oswego. Is that where your 26 plans are preliminarily at the moment?

speaker
Tom Ward
Chief Executive Officer

Yes, as long as our operating cash flow holds up. So it all depends on pricing and where EBITDA is, but it could expand if prices move up and contract if they don't. So it is the barometer for us on how much we spend is 50% of our operating cash flow. So it's never written in stone that we're going to have that development program. And it's also subject to change if prices move, if gas prices move down and oil prices move up. That could also switch. So we are more difficult, I think, to monitor with exactly where our rigs are going to be because every month we make a decision here. So I can't tell you.

speaker
Michael C. Scalia
Analyst, Stevens Inc.

I appreciate how fluid that is and your flexibility, but I just want to get your latest thoughts.

speaker
Tom Ward
Chief Executive Officer

As of today and where our EBITDA sits today, this is exactly what we plan to do. And also permitting. San Juan is not the easiest place to drill. The New Mexico side, you basically have May to December to have everything through. And so that has us kind of in the drilling season of May to September.

speaker
Michael C. Scalia
Analyst, Stevens Inc.

Okay, gotcha. And then for the second half of this year, I think Sabino had a rig running, and were there some wells there that you plan on going ahead and completing those on the Central Basin platform, or do you kind of halt all the activity when you close the deal?

speaker
Tom Ward
Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, they had two rigs running at four locations that they're waiting on completion that will complete once we close.

speaker
Michael C. Scalia
Analyst, Stevens Inc.

Okay, got it.

speaker
Tom Ward
Chief Executive Officer

Also, ICAB should have basically five locations ready to complete at closing.

speaker
Michael C. Scalia
Analyst, Stevens Inc.

Right, got it. And then I wanted to ask one more on the kind of unusual items for the quarter. It looked like to us, we could have it wrong, but Your GP&T cost kind of popped up for second quarter. Is that correct or anything unusual happen there?

speaker
Kevin White
Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, due to the marketing arrangement change that we mentioned, and that took place at the beginning of the second quarter, there's essentially a reclass, and we'll bore you with the FASB number of the provision, but it's a reclass of moving GP&T up. and revenues also go up. So it is a kind of bottom line neutral impact, and it just has to do with when title to the gas changes, and it's in association with this new marketing arrangement. So that net, it's kind of a zero-sum game, but in the individual categories of revenue and GP&T, they both went up by similar amounts.

speaker
Michael C. Scalia
Analyst, Stevens Inc.

Okay, I got it. So really it was the gas price that was kind of maybe the difference between our estimates and some others. There's really no change to what you're thinking in terms of gathering and transportation costs?

speaker
Kevin White
Chief Financial Officer

No. And when we update guidance, when we close the acquisitions, that line item will change to reflect that new arrangement. Okay. But again, so will our basis differential up above.

speaker
Michael C. Scalia
Analyst, Stevens Inc.

Got it. Thanks, Kevin. Thanks, Tom. You bet.

speaker
Shamali
Investor Relations

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Jeff Jay with Daniel Energy Partners. Please proceed with your question.

speaker
Jeff Jay
Analyst, Daniel Energy Partners

Hi, guys. Just a real quick one for me just to make sure I understand the activity changes, I mean, as she sits today. So the three rigs in the San Juan next year, Are those all incremental, or are there some kind of working now, I guess? And then in the Permian, as I understand it, you're going to basically let the two rigs they have currently drop and go to zero until you see a better drilling signal. Do I have that right?

speaker
Tom Ward
Chief Executive Officer

That's correct. San Juan currently has one rig that will be leaving shortly, sometime in late August, early September, so let's say this month. And then we'll be picking up hopefully two Maine Coast rigs and one to two Fruitland Coal. Right now we have set up for one, but I'd love to drill with two. And then at today's prices, that then would nudge out some of our oil locations. So if all things were just fantastic, we'd have three to four rigs. I'm just projecting three in the San Juan area. and two in the deep Anadarko drilling for gas, and one rig that is looking Oswego oil just because it's a steady, very low-risk, good oil-producing area with high rates of return, but they still don't match the natural gas locations that we have today.

speaker
Jeff Jay
Analyst, Daniel Energy Partners

That's all for me. Thanks.

speaker
Shamali
Investor Relations

Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Carrie Mangiano with Stifel. Please proceed with your question.

speaker
Carrie Mangiano
Analyst, Stifel

Hi, thanks for taking the question. It's kind of a bizarre one, but in terms of the acquisitions, was there any preference given to acquisitions that would take part cash and part units, or would you guys have bought Did you look at other properties that wanted all cash, but the other properties would take both? Was there any consideration for that?

speaker
Tom Ward
Chief Executive Officer

Yes. We can't do an acquisition of any size more than that. $300 million or $400 million that doesn't require equity. So anyone who would like to move from a private company into a more public liquid holding, they need to take equity if they're of any size, especially anything over $400 million for sure. that we can't do with and still then maintain our leverage ratios that we have to have in order to maintain our four pillars. So the easy answer is yes, taking equity was a large part. In fact, the only reason we could do either of the acquisitions.

speaker
Carrie Mangiano
Analyst, Stifel

Okay. And did you look at any others that said they wanted all cash?

speaker
Tom Ward
Chief Executive Officer

We look at a lot of throw-in bids with equity and get declined.

speaker
Carrie Mangiano
Analyst, Stifel

Okay. Yeah, okay. I was just wondering about that. Somebody had mentioned it to me that's involved out there in Texas, and they said there was some other properties that wanted all cash or something in their opinion. But I just thought I'd run that by you guys.

speaker
Tom Ward
Chief Executive Officer

So that stands to reason. The other thing to think about is that every seller has an opportunity. There's plenty of competition to take all cash. So you have to believe, which I believe, it's actually better to take our equity and ride along with a company that's going to give you 15% to 20% distributions while you wait. and look for a time that you want to exit. So to me, it's along with, you know, if you have a belief that oil is going to be above $60 or $70 over time or gas prices are moving up in the future, why wouldn't you take equity instead of a cash offer that's basically equal with where our equity offer is?

speaker
Carrie Mangiano
Analyst, Stifel

Yeah, and I guess that just shows that these people that are selling do believe in what they're selling, and they're not just trying to take a buck and get out, but they are along for the ride. That's a perfect way to couch it to the clients that I've got in this. So I appreciate that, Tom. I've been following you for years.

speaker
Shamali
Investor Relations

Thank you. Thank you. And, ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the end of the question and answer session. And also, this concludes today's conference, and you may disconnect your lives at this time. We thank you for your participation. Have a great day.

Disclaimer

This conference call transcript was computer generated and almost certianly contains errors. This transcript is provided for information purposes only.EarningsCall, LLC makes no representation about the accuracy of the aforementioned transcript, and you are cautioned not to place undue reliance on the information provided by the transcript.

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