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spk00: Good morning. My name is Jenny and I will be your conference operator today. I would like to welcome everyone to the Insperity third quarter 2023 earnings conference call. At the moment, all participants are in a listen-only mode. If anyone should require operator assistance during the conference, please press star zero on your telephone keypad. Please note this conference is being recorded. At this time, I would like to introduce today's speakers. Joining us are Paul Savody, Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer, and Douglas Sharpe, Executive Vice President of Finance, Chief Financial Officer, and Treasurer. At this time, I'd like to turn the call over to Douglas Sharpe. Mr. Sharpe, please go ahead.
spk04: Thank you. We appreciate you joining us. Let me begin by outlining our plan for this morning's call. First, I'm going to discuss the details behind our third quarter 2023 financial results. Paul will then comment on the quarter and our plan over the remainder of the year. I will return to provide our financial guidance for the fourth quarter and an update to the full year guidance. We will then end the call with a question and answer session. Now, before I begin, I would like to remind you that Mr. Sabati or I may look forward to forward-looking statements during today's call, which are subject to risks, uncertainties, and assumptions. In addition, some of our discussion may include non-GAAP financial measures. For a more detailed discussion of the risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results that differ materially from any forward-looking statements and reconciliations of non-GAAP financial measures, please see the company's public filings, including the Form 8-K file today, which are available on our website. Now let's discuss our third quarter 2023 financial results in which we significantly exceeded our earnings expectations. Continued works on employee growth combined with strong pricing, favorable direct cost trends, and effective management of operating costs resulted in a 19% increase in Q3 adjusted EPS to $1.46 and an 18% increase in adjusted EBITDA to $94 million. As for our growth metric, the average number of paid worksite employees increased by 4% over Q3 of 2022, in spite of a continued slowdown in hiring by our client base and a more challenging sales environment. Client retention remains strong, averaging 99% for the quarter. At this point in the year, we are focused on our fall sales campaign, which generally converts to paid worksite employees In the first couple of months of the subsequent year, Paul will provide some comments on our recent sales activity in a few minutes. Moving to gross profit, we continued to exceed our pricing objectives and achieved favorable results in our workers' compensation program through the effective management of claims. As for our healthcare claims, excuse me, you may recall that Q2's costs were negatively impacted both the number and severity of large healthcare claims, and to a lesser extent, higher pharmacy costs. Accordingly, at that time, our earnings guidance over the second half of 2023 incorporated two scenarios. A lower earnings scenario generally assumed the large claim activity continued at Q2's level for the remainder of the year. while the higher earnings scenario assumed a return to lower, more normalized activity. We are pleased to report that Q3 pharmacy costs came in at forecasted levels and a severity of large claims declined significantly. These factors contributed to favorable development of Q2's claim activity and our positive Q3 earnings. Now when we look at the full year 2023, we're now forecasting a full year benefit cost trend to be slightly below the low end of our previous estimate of seven to eight and a half percent. This includes what we believe is a conservative Q4 forecasted cost trend that is generally consistent with our previous guidance despite the favorable Q3 healthcare cost results. Moving to operating expenses, we continue to invest in our sales, service, and technology. Our growth investment included a 13% increase in the number of business performance advisors, which we believe puts us in a good position as we head into 2024. Our operating costs also reflected the impact of the inflationary environment on our costs. And we're partially offset by a lower incentive compensation accrual and a shift in the timing of the quarterly marketing spend when compared to the 2022 periods. Interest income earned on our investments and operating cash continue to benefit from the current interest rate environment. And we believe that our financial position and liquidity remain strong as we continue to invest in our growth while providing returns to our shareholders. During the quarter, we took the opportunity to be more aggressive than our typical share repurchase activity. We repurchased 873,000 shares of stock during Q3 at a cost of $86 million and paid out $21 million in cash dividends. We ended Q3 with $190 million of adjusted cash and $370 million of debt. Now, at this time, I'd like to turn the call over to Paul.
spk03: Thank you, Doug, and thank you all for joining our call. Today, I'd like to provide commentary on the following three topics. I'll begin with highlights behind our strong Q3 financial and operating performance. Secondly, I'll provide an update on the economic environment in the small to medium-sized business community, which is the backdrop of our fall selling and retention campaign opportunity. I'll finish with some thoughts regarding the outlook for 2024 and beyond. This recent quarter was a welcome rebound in our financial results from Q2 with 4% unit growth driving 5.5% gross profit growth and over 18% growth in adjusted EBITDA and EPS. We're pleased with these results considering some marketplace challenges continuing to deepen within the small to medium-sized business community, and I'll discuss this more in a few minutes. The most direct impact on our results from this environment is in net hiring within our client base, which reflected a continued slowdown we've seen throughout the year. For the first time in several years, client net hiring was flat this quarter. The net gain in our client base declined significantly when compared to Q3 2022, while client retention and the number of worksite employees paid from new client sales remained consistent compared to the same period last year. In addition to the lower large health claim costs Doug mentioned, our pricing and cost management were the strong drivers of our outperformance. This reflects solid execution across the company and contributed to a strong quarter and our outlook for the long term. Another highlight was our increased service capacity and client satisfaction levels as utilization of many of our HR services increased. Our hiring and training results over the last year have improved our service efficiency ratios to handle growth and resulted in a notable increase and our net promoter scores. During the third quarter, we completed the implementation of our Salesforce CRM system across our service organization. We now have the entire company on a common platform that provides the opportunity for more timely, precise, and efficient client service interaction and potentially greater client satisfaction. We can see in our service utilization metrics the changing needs of clients in the current environment. Many HR services that are used more in a slower growth environment increased significantly over last year. This included support for worksite employee terminations, such as separation agreements, and support for employment practices and unemployment-related claims. These services have been at historically low levels in the past couple years, so this increase is expected in a more neutral hiring environment and further demonstrates our ability to bring value to clients in any economic environment. Book sales for the third quarter were mixed with strong performance in workforce acceleration, our traditional employment service offering, while our workforce optimization core and mid-market book sales were below our expectations. Our workforce acceleration book sales reflect adoption of this offering across the sales organization and has helped our newest BPAs experience earlier success. This has led to lower turnover rates, which has excellent potential to drive sales efficiency going forward. Now, in early September, we had a successful national kickoff to our fall selling and retention campaign and increased marketing efforts to continue to drive sales activity levels. Our discovery call activity was a strong point in Q3, up double digits, which we expect to be a solid indicator for Q4 sales. Now, I'd like to provide some data points and survey results from our client base reflecting decisions and sentiments in the small and medium-sized business community that we see across the country. This provides a picture of how we believe the challenging economic climate related to interest rates, inflation, and the labor market are affecting many of these businesses. I mentioned that hiring within the client base was flat this past quarter, and additional underlying data is consistent with this metric. Lower pay increases, overtime pay, and commissions paid to the sales staff of our clients all reflect some economic pressure. Average pay increases dropped to a low point of approximately 3% for the first time in several years. Overtime pay was below the 10% level, which historically aligns with the lower need to hire personnel. Commissions we pay on behalf of our clients to their salespeople, which provides some insight into the pipeline for new business in the client base, was well below the 6% level, which typically indicates employment growth. Now, our quarterly survey of the client base, which provides insight into the client sentiment, included a ranking of top four concerns for their organization. The top four were managing operating costs, driving sales, external economic uncertainty, and the labor market, especially the quality of the applicants. We also asked survey participants their top HR concerns. The top three concerns, all cited by over 50% of those surveyed, were retaining employees, keeping employee engagement high, and building or maintaining a strong culture. Right behind those three was managing healthcare costs. Now, throughout our history, this type of challenging backdrop translates into quite an opportunity for disparity. These needs for consultative HR services, increased demand for our comprehensive HR service solutions, and highlight our competitive advantage. Historically, we've seen competition become somewhat desperate for sales growth when net hiring within the client base falls this low, and we've seen some of that over the last quarter. As the premium service provider in the marketplace, we are well able to compete on short-term promotional tactics from competitors But they cannot match the breadth and depth of our services and the level of care we provide our clients and worksite employees at their greatest time of need. Over the first two weeks of this quarter, our sales leadership did a deep dive evaluating Q3 workforce optimization sales drivers, including input from BPAs and potential clients. This provided sufficient information to take specific action, which led to an immediate boost to fall campaign sales and retention efforts. This boost came in the form of a dramatic increase in sales activity, including both closing business and new opportunities to quote potential clients. Attitudes and energy levels across the company also benefited, reflecting the Insperity culture of rising to the occasion to take advantage of a specific opportunity. So we believe we're well positioned for a successful fall selling and retention campaign, which is important to achieve a starting point in paid worksite employees to start the new year. As we look ahead to 2024 and beyond, we continue to be excited about the vast market opportunity and strong demand for our services in the marketplace. Excuse me. We're also in a strong position in staffing levels in both sales and service to capitalize on this opportunity. For next year, it's too early to provide any specific guidance, but there are general considerations for growth and profitability to weigh in mind. Historically, our lead indicator for future growth has been the growth rate in business performance advisors combined with expected sales efficiency gains based upon their tenure. As Doug mentioned, our continuing investment into BPA growth was a highlight this quarter, coming in at 13%. So over the next year, we believe we're in excellent position for new client sales. Client retention has been solid all year, and our focus on this measure across the company provides confidence into next year on this key growth driver. The other growth factor to consider is the economic climate ahead and the effect on net hiring in the client base. Historically, in an average year, we expect a client net hiring contribution of 4% to 6% in our growth rate of worksite employees. This year, the contribution to our growth from net hiring was below the low end of that range. Although we believe net hiring will eventually revert to historical levels, a number of factors are posing obstacles that may make this more gradual. In addition to the interest rates, inflation, and the labor market effect we've seen recently, 2024 is an election year that historically adds some uncertainty. Now, based upon these growth factors and assuming a successful year-end transition, I see next year similar to this year in full-year growth rate of mid-single digits, but the opposite on timing. Instead of higher single digits early in the year and lower single digits toward the end like this year, I see lower single digits early and high single digits toward the end of the year on our way back to our historical target of double-digit unit growth. Now, beyond unit growth, the most important factors in our outlook for profitability are trends in our pricing, direct cost, and operating expenses. Our pricing strength continued this quarter with the recovery in direct cost. We believe we are in a strong position to achieve pricing and direct cost alignment targets going forward. Our operating expenses have included some significant investments over the last couple years, including BPA growth and sales incentive plans, increasing service capacity, and implementing Salesforce CRM. Although we continue to expect investments going forward, we believe the historical operating leverage of our business model will begin to reemerge. So as I look ahead to next year and beyond, I expect the level of growth and profitability to ultimately return to historical levels. Our historical business model performance includes five-year periods with double-digit compound annual growth rates of 10% to 12% in worksite employees, driving mid-teens growth rates in gross profit and rates above 20% in adjusted EBITDA and APS. Now we have had historical five-year periods that include a year like this year where we absorbed a growth challenge from client net hiring and or a profitability challenge from a direct cost aberration. We are in the second year of our current five-year plan and our eyes remain on the objectives similar to historical levels. There are two reasons for my level of confidence. The clients we serve and the dedicated team of people we have at Insperity. Our position in the marketplace as a premium provider to the best small to medium-sized businesses in the country has allowed us to observe the resiliency and innovation that are key to addressing economic challenges and creating market opportunities. In addition, our corporate team has demonstrated the capability to achieve extraordinary results, and they are focused on the appropriate strategies and objectives that provide consistent value to our clients and help their businesses succeed. At this point, I'd like to pass the call back to Doug.
spk04: Thanks, Paul. Now, let me provide our updated guidance, which includes an improvement in our Q4 forecast over our previous expectations in the areas of gross profit and operating expense management, partially offset by slightly lower paid worksite employees. As for the details, we are now forecasting 6% worksite employee growth for the full year 2023. A slightly lower growth outlook from our previous expectations is a result of two threes average paid worksite employees coming in at the low range of our prior guidance. Additionally, we are expecting net hiring by our client base to continue declining through Q4. We have revised our earnings guidance based upon our year-to-date results, including the strong Q3 earnings, and our updated Q4 outlook, which includes the expectation of an improvement in profitability from pricing, direct cost programs, and operating expense management to more than offset the slightly lower paid worksite employee expectations. We are now forecasting full year 2023 adjusted EBITDA in a range of $340 million to $360 million, and adjusted EPS in a range of $5.20 to $5.60. As Paul mentioned a few moments ago, our efforts are now focused on our sales campaign and heavy client renewal period, which are important to our starting point for paid worksite employees in 2024. We look forward to updating you on these results in our next earnings call, and we'll provide our 2024 guidance at that time. Now at this time, I'd like to open up the call for questions.
spk00: Thank you very much. We will now be conducting our question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your phone keypad now. A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the queue. You may press star two if you would like to remove your question from the queue. For anyone using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before you press the keys. Please pause one moment whilst we poll for questions. Thank you. Your first question is coming from Andrew Nicholas of William Blair. Andrew, your line is live.
spk01: thank you and and good morning doug and paul um i wanted to first ask on the sales environment i think doug you mentioned a more challenging sales environment paul i think you mentioned that and also the competitors are being a bit more aggressive can you just flush that out a little bit how are you seeing that kind of play out day to day um and also you know how willing are you to react to maybe more aggressive pricing from competitors to maintain clients versus win clients and maybe how that decision process changes depending on whether it's retaining or adding a new one. Thank you.
spk03: Sure, happy to address that. You know, in our industry, we always have a level of competition. You know, we always have a decent percentage of greenfield as well, but in the competitive environment, It ebbs and flows, and it is typical when the net gain from the client hiring in the base kind of goes down. You know, it's kind of like when the lake goes down, the stumps show up. And so what happens is you do have kind of an increase in the competitive environment when that focus becomes on your net gain from your new sales against your client attrition. So it does increase some, and that was consistent with what we've seen over the course of the year. And for some, they get pretty desperate and, you know, will look at price differently. Now, we are, of course, the premium service provider in the space, and we provide services. a level of comprehensive services that support clients in any economic environment, and especially it's important when there's a changing economic environment or some added pressures in the environment. So it puts us in a position to be able to really accentuate the difference that we have in the breadth and depth of our services and the level of care, but we also You know, don't just ignore the pricing sensitivity in the marketplace. And it's part of our corporate culture to jump in and help customers when they're going through difficult times. So this doesn't really bother us when that happens, but we are responsive. We use a targeted approach because, as you know, in any economic environment, some companies are doing better than they do in other periods. So it's never an across-the-board approach. solution we look at it more in terms of targeting and making sure that we're competing effectively so you know frankly it motivates us in a different way we evaluated that third quarter environment and we were able to make some very specific strategic competitive choices and that we're really excited about how that's already added a boost to our fall campaign efforts.
spk01: That's really helpful. Thank you. And then for my follow-up, I just wanted to double back to benefit costs. Sounds like pharma was largely in line with what you had expected, but I think, correct me if I'm wrong, still relatively elevated costs. Is the expectation that that kind of remains elevated, particularly with some of the diabetes drugs out there and GLP-1? Just kind of how you're thinking about pharma costs, more specifically looking ahead to 24, because it sounds like the larger claims activity on the other side has died down some.
spk04: Yeah, I think overall... the use of these specialty drugs continues, as we've all seen out there in the marketplace. And so we don't expect a sudden drop of the utilization of those drugs. So therefore, yeah, we're considering that trend to stay at similar levels as we've recently experienced. I think you also have to take into account the pricing side of things and that we've been able to exceed our pricing targets and Obviously, we're putting in pricing targets to take care of this new pharmacy trend. So overall, as we go through renewing existing accounts, selling new accounts, we feel like we've got the appropriate matching between price and cost relative to this new pharmacy trend phenomenon.
spk03: I would also say that that pharmacy trend is more likely to moderate some next year because it's a year into this increase of activity in these particular drugs. And once you get that year under the belt, you don't expect it to increase the same amount as last time. So according to the input we're getting from those that consult with us on this, we think we've really aligned our pricing well to... with cost terms.
spk02: Makes sense. Thank you very much.
spk00: Thank you very much. Your next question is coming from Mark Marcon of Baird. Mark, your line is live.
spk06: Good morning, and nice to see the rebound with regards to the gross profit here in the third quarter. Paul and Doug, I was wondering if you could do an even deeper dive with regards to the cost trends that you're seeing on the healthcare side, how you're anticipating that unfolding for next year and how are you thinking about the price increase and also, you know, on a base level apples for apples and also how you're thinking about it in terms of any sort of planned design changes what would be the net, you know, impact. And I'm particularly curious just because, you know, we've heard some commentary from some of the other players that have talked about, you know, higher healthcare costs and lower utilization rates among their clients and among the employees. So I'm trying to think through, like, how in your vast experience this would end up, you know, spilling through to to utilization as well as, you know, ability to win clients, particularly if some of the other competitors are being a little bit more price competitive.
spk02: Yeah, so let me try to address that.
spk03: That was a broad, a wide question. And it does, you know, it is something we spend, of course, a lot of time and effort on on an ongoing basis, literally in the depths of every driver to these costs. And, you know, you do have to look, I'm glad your question includes both the cost and the pricing side, because that's really the nature of our business is to make sure that we align the pricing with what costs are expected to be. And, you know, the other specific thing to us is we're coming off of a year with somewhat of a unusual, you know, period of large, both severity and frequency of large claims. You gotta weigh all that in, but the main message that you should take away today is that with that receding, in fact, I mentioned this last quarter, that if in fact those severe claims continued through the year, that we were likely to not quite be in alignment into next year. And it might take to mid-year or so for that to take place. We're not in that situation. You can see from the rebound, even though we have forecasted in conservatively, we are confident today, as I said in my remarks, that alignment on the pricing side with these cost trends we feel good about. So, to the degree that we've had some dampening effect to gross profit this year from benefits, we don't see that into next year. However, that's only one component of the whole direct cost picture. And so, we're not at a point of being that specific about next year, but in terms of the big picture, our comfort on the gross profit level is better. uh than what we went through this year and we'll you know be digging in on details on price and cost and all of our components as we plan into next year and we'll be providing specifics of course on our next call for guidance yeah i think another uh thing you're probably aware of is the inflationary environment uh you know is there
spk04: a carrier contract negotiations and pharmacy negotiations. That's just where we are today in the current environment that we're working in. And obviously we'll be considering that in our pricing.
spk06: That's terrific. Can you talk a little bit about what you're seeing just from a geographic perspective, you know, in terms of the net hiring impacts? And I'm specifically curious, you know, one of your competitors, mentioned that particularly in California with tech and professional services, there was a bit of a slowdown with regards to hiring, wondering if you're seeing the same thing. And along those lines, I'm wondering if you can also just talk about the increased penetration of the PEO concept and your success in terms of newer, less well-developed markets and and what you're seeing and how that, you know, forebodes for the long-term future.
spk03: Yeah, that's really great. You know, we really did do some digging down on both the industry and geographic elements related to and drivers of the flattening of the net change within existing clients. And certainly we saw areas where the, you know, professional and technical you know is a bigger part of the of the of the environment in a given location we saw that contribute more to this flattening and that was of course the both the west coast and the northeast so we saw those two regions you know where the word where we saw the most effect there by in terms of geography. Now, in terms of industry category, absolutely professional, technical was right there. But also, you know, we did see this broaden more over the last quarter or so. And, you know, so I think some of the effect that I described in here, but, you know, the effect of interest rates and inflation and the labor market especially the, you know, quality of available people in terms of matching the requirements. You know, those things are having an effect. We saw that in a deeper analysis of the, you know, net pay change. That's gone down now back to even below some of the average levels of 3% to 4%, you know, for average pay increases dropped down a bit. You know, you have those other two factors I watch closely, overtime pay as a percent of regular pay being down below 10%. And then the other that is a really key factor is that commission number. We're paying these commissions to the sales staff of the clients. That means they're getting paid based on the sales they've made recently. That's the pipeline for new business at the client location. That's down. Pretty significantly, especially compared to recent periods, booming periods post-COVID, those numbers were really high. They've been decreasing and now gone below that 6% level that we have seen historically as a trigger point. Above 6, they would need to hire more people. Below that, they were able to hold fast. So that is reflective. And like I said previously, and it answers another question, that doesn't mean all the small business community is having that reaction. It's always a mixed bag, but much of the community is really having to deal with a tougher economic environment. And, you know, fortunately, we're in a business where the demand for what we do is heightened any time there's changing going on or pressure going on, they need help. So we are excited about the demand for our services. And you do have to change some of your messaging to fit more tightly, or you have to understand a specific client's current situation to understand what part of our messaging would connect more to their current going forward plan and how we can connect to helping them in the immediate future and so you know it becomes a little more I wouldn't say complex but there's more thinking you do to really connect with each customer so But that's a good environment for us. We've seen this before, and it really gets us excited. We're in a business that's designed to help businesses succeed so communities prosper, and they need help in a time like this, and we're excited to be right shoulder to shoulder with them.
spk00: Thank you very much. Your next question is coming from Toby Summer of Truist Securities. Toby, your line is live.
spk06: Thank you, Paul and Doug. I wanted to ask a question about your sort of expense and investment posture headed into next year. So not really the inputs to gross profit, but sort of how you're going to prosecute sales, the investments in the sales force, marketing, you know, the things that you can sort of more directly control. How are you thinking about that at this stage? Because I know you're afforded the opportunity and have planned for longer time horizons than I think your average public company. Thanks.
spk03: Yeah, absolutely. You know, we're in good shape going into next year on the operating expense side. And in the area that you're describing or asking a question about on the sales side, since we have – you know, 13% increase in the size of the staff, you know, our investment in that doesn't have to be as high as it was over the last year. Also, the last two years, we've invested more in the incentive system, which now is built into the base of our operations. So I don't see us having to make an additional investment in that area of the business. So we are able then to do the smart thing, which is you know, make sure our investment's appropriate in the marketing area to provide the activity level needed for our sales team because as they are now another year into their training and development, their sales efficiency number can go up as long as you're feeding them a good volume of activity. So I love the position we're going into next year. Then in addition to that, As I mentioned in my remarks, you know, we had to go through a significant recovery or catch up on the service personnel across the company. Again, from the tight labor market and the fast growth. And so this year has been a great opportunity to right-size the staff. be better prepared for a level of growth. But that was also a big investment that I don't see repeating. We can actually increase staff more in alignment with growth as opposed to what we had over the last year. And also, of course, the Salesforce investment was a significant one. Like I said in my remarks, it's not like we're not going to make other investments. but not at that level. So I do see a recovery in the operating leverage on that side of the business as we move forward.
spk06: If I could ask a follow-up, how are you feeling about pricing and competition? Particularly, I think the healthcare benefit costs are expected to rise next year in the market, the sort of rate of growth. And I'm curious, in the fall selling campaign, how you're feeling about pricing and competition at the end of next year.
spk03: Yeah, well, I feel real strong about how we are handling the matching of our allocations going forward. We've discussed that. So in terms of the competitive environment, this is a fun time of year for us. I love how we are focused on dealing with these things in the marketplace. And I'm not going to go into detail about that. I just know we've got a great plan on that front, and it's focused, it's targeted, and it's not an approach that affects our long-term pricing. It's an approach that affects allowing clients to come on board and almost more of a try-and-buy approach approach that is very effective against what we're seeing in the marketplace. So again, we are more concerned about the long-term matching. And I think because we've been strong in our pricing up to this point, there may be others in the marketplace that have to respond more quickly. Say on the healthcare side, we've been managing that I think very effectively, and a big objective of ours in that area is a more stable environment for the customer base. That's why, you know, just this year is an example where we took a hit, you know, because of the volatility and the timing, but we keep a steady view of how this should happen over time, and our customers get the benefit of that. So it's another... benefit of how we do this as a premium service provider that is something we can point to in that dynamic you're referring to.
spk02: So, you know, good confidence on that front as well.
spk00: Thank you very much. Your next question is coming from Jeff Martin of Roth MKM. Jeff, your line is live.
spk05: Thank you. Good morning. Paul, I wanted to To see if you could expand on the efforts of the fall campaign strategy. Sounds like you've made some pretty strategic pivots there. Sounds like it's a combination of client retention as well as going after new clients. Is that more of a shift relative to workforce acceleration sales trends that you've seen versus workforce optimization or are there other things going on there?
spk03: No, it's actually kind of across the board in terms of, I mentioned the efforts on the marketing side of the business, driving lead flow. We've also, I would say that maybe the best way to understand it is that there's three elements to driving sales success in a campaign. It's the activity, it's the attitudes, and the incentives. And, you know, we have... that triple braided cord in a really strong position, uh, as we go forward to the balance of the year. And yes, it is directed at both. Our campaign is both the sales and retention campaign. And so, um, you know, I think the level of alertness across the company, the level of focus and the level of enthusiasm, um, you know, gives us a good feeling about the campaign. And it's important to have that level of all those things when you have an environment that's a little tougher. And I think, you know, what I've laid out today is, you know, what we're seeing in the current client base and in the sentiments from the survey information, what we're seeing across the country, what we're seeing by industry. Hey, that means that in a period like this, you've got to be on the top of your game. And, you know, that's what we'll be continuing to emphasize across our employee base. And, you know, we'll give it our very best shot. And I like that kind of selling and retention season that we have ahead of us.
spk05: Great. For my follow-up, it's a two-part question. First part is, could you discuss BPA retention trends year to date, and then hiring plans for next year. And then second part is, could you touch on the middle market and sales and retention trends we've seen there?
spk03: Yeah, absolutely. You know, we really have had an excellent year on that front, and the workforce acceleration strategy has played in well to reducing the turnover rate. We think that's significant. Our turnover rate this year is significantly down from last year. And that includes that we had a significant number to promote from the BPA role into a sales management role. So even with all of that weighed in there, we're in a really strong position I see that for next year, we can probably grow the BPA staff even below our 8% or 9% target, maybe a little on the low end of our range because we have such a high number that are in that ramp up in their sales efficiency mode. So, you know, feel good about that and how we can manage that going into next year. What was that second half of your question?
spk05: It was on middle market sales and retention, Ken.
spk03: Yeah, absolutely. So middle market continues to develop. You know, it is a smaller team, but we have been adding strategically there. That will probably continue to add. normally, but it's nominal in terms of the numbers on the investment side. But our connection between our core market and mid-market teams and the ongoing flow continues to improve and be strong, which requires us to grow that team in addition.
spk02: So that will be going on throughout next year. Thank you.
spk00: Thank you very much. That appears to be the end of our question and answer session as there are no more questions in the queue. I will now hand back over to Paul Savody for any closing remarks.
spk03: So once again, we'd like to thank you for your participation today. We're looking forward to this fall selling and retention campaign and achieving a decent starting point for next year. And on the next call, we will have all that baked into a going forward scenario for 2024 and we look forward to sharing that with you at that time. Thank you again.
spk00: Thank you very much. This does conclude today's conference call. You may now disconnect your phone lines. Goodbye. Have a wonderful day. Thank you for your participation.
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