Pampa Energia S.A.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for waiting. I'm Lido Slavutsky from IAR, and we would like to welcome everyone to Pampa Energía's fourth quarter 2021 results video conference. We inform you that this event is being recorded. All participants will be in listen-only mode during the presentation. After the company remarks, there will be a Q&A session. Questions can only be submitted in writing through Zoom. Should any participant need assistance, please send us a chat message or email. Before proceeding, let me read the disclaimer that is recorded on the second page of our presentation. Let me mention that forward-looking statements are based on Pampanergia's management beliefs and assumptions and information currently available to the company. They involve risks, uncertainties, and assumptions because they are related to future events that may or may not occur. Investors should understand that general economic and industry conditions and other operating factors could also affect the future results of pump energy and could cause results to differ materially from those expressing such forward-looking statements. Now, I'll turn the video conference over to Margarita Chun from IAR. Please go ahead.

Thank you, Guido. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining our conference call. We are pleased to share the latest events as well as the 2021 and four-quarter results. Our CEO, Mr. Gustavo Mariani, and CFO, Mr. Nicolás Mindlin, are both here and joining us for Q&A. Let's start with the latest events. In EMP, we are very proud of what we have been able to achieve in 2021 and very enthusiastic with the prospect for this year. PlanGas provided the long-term incentives and visibility needed in this industry, and we reacted accordingly. In December 2021, we increased our natural gas production by 38% year-on-year. This is more than double the nationwide rise of 16% in production. And we are maintaining our production above 9 million cubic meters per day, despite the off-peak season, because we are exporting almost 3 million cubic meters per day to Chile on a firm basis until April. And also, we are responding to the demand hike in the local industrial and spot markets. Therefore, despite the commitment for 2022 is 9.3 million cubic meters per day, we will be achieving on average almost 10 million cubic meters per day for 2022. During 2021, Pampa was the largest natural gas export awardee in the country, with a market share of 35% in Gazandes pipeline that connects Argentina to Chile. Our team is working at full speed for the upcoming winter, and we will be adding 2 million cubic meters per day more awarded in the last round of plan gas. The total 11 cubic meters per day of winter production is the minimum volume we are committed to, and this is 56% more than the 2020 winter. On the other hand, A month ago, the government announced the long-waited project to build a new pipeline connecting Neuquina Basin to the provinces of Buenos Aires and Santa Fe in order to sort out the current transportation bottleneck. Our affiliate TGS is uniquely positioned to become the operator of the first tranche of the new pipeline, given its know-how, expertise, and infrastructure in the area. The government has already launched the option to secure the provision of the pipes and is eager to have the first tranche operational before 2023 winter. As you can see on the chart, this pipeline's initial transportation capacity will add roughly 10 million cubic meters per day by winter 2023, but once fully online, the total increase will be roughly 40 million cubic meters per day by 2024 winter. As this project progresses, the government should be announcing the fourth round of planned gaps, in order to secure the gas needed to fill up the new pipeline and reduce imports. The new option for gas should be launched sooner rather than later, as producers will not only get ready to drill and complete new wells, but also build the necessary surface infrastructure to treat and transport the new production to the gathering network. The construction of these facilities will require as much time as the construction for the pipeline itself. The fulfillment of this important project is crucial for the country as it will significantly impact its external account figures. But it is definitely a game changer for Pampa as it dramatically revalues its natural gas reserves in the Neuquina Basin and opens the possibility for doubling our production levels in the coming years. Now let's briefly review the annual figures. 2021 was a great year. growing the investment in our core businesses despite the COVID restrictions and the macroeconomic context. The adjusted EBITDA amounted to $905 million in 2021, 30% more than 2020. As we show on the right below, electricity takes 53% of the consolidated adjusted EBITDA, while oil and gas takes 47, driven by gas and TGS. As you can see on slide five, in 2021, revenues increased by 38%. to $2 billion, mainly driven by natural gas volume and prices improvement and the impact of the full-year PPA of the new combined cycle of Genelva, which was commissioned in mid-2020. All of them were partially offset by the PPA maturity at Loma, diluted power spot prices, and tariff freeze at our affiliates TGS and Transaner since mid-2019. Keep in mind that all these figures excluded a discontinued operation. Roughly 85% of our sales were dollar linked. In 2021, our capex increased significantly compared to 2020, mainly driven by the increased activity to achieve the production growth of natural gas and ongoing expansion at Barragan and Pepe Street. Now let's move on to the quarter figures. The revenues increased by 46% year on year to $557 million, mainly driven by commodities price hike, plant gas, legacy energy, additional remuneration, and Energia Blue's better volume and price. All of them were partially upset by PPA maturities at Loma and Piquirenda, as well as tariff freeze in utility businesses. Roughly 85% of our sales were dollar leaked. The adjusted EBITDA amounted to $199 million, 8% up year on year, but 24% down quarter on quarter due to seasonality of natural gas prices and low mass PPA maturity. Offset by spot extra energy remuneration and 53% of the quarters consolidated adjusted EBITDA came from electricity. CapEx in Q4 was more than double last year's figure and 55% more quarter on quarter, mainly due to increased activity to comply with planned gas commitments and power expansions at Barragan and Pepe Street. Move on. Give me a second, please. Moving on to power generation, let me mute the participants. Give me one second, please. Moving on to power generation, as seen on slide 7, we posted an adjusted EBITDA of $105 million in Q4, 13% down year-on-year and 16% down quarter-on-quarter, mainly due to one of LOMA's PPA maturity, offset by the additional spot remuneration and higher thermal B2B margins. Compared to Q3, the seasonality on the legacy remuneration also affected the lower adjusted EBITDA. Spot energy is 59% of our capacity, but only represented 21% of our power generation EBITDA. The additional remuneration ended last month, and we are waiting for the update for this year. Keep in mind that power demand is going up again, breaking its record once more this January with more than 28 gigawatts. So if these essential units continue being underpaid, it will be challenging to maintain them properly. Moving on to Pampa's operating figures, power generation in Q4 was 6% of year-on-year, surpassing once more nationwide generation growth of only 1%. We recorded higher thermal dispatch at almost all lower units, responding to the growing demand, except for the CCGT Aloma and the new CCGT Agenelba due to their maintenance, and also the lower dispatch with alternative fuels because the grid exported less electricity. It was also offset by lower renewable generation due to lower water input of wind sources. The power generation business model relies on capacity payment, like a take or pay. So availability is what matters most. In Q4, our availability continued high of 95.5%, similar year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter. Tampa's availability was once again significantly above the system average of 79%. Regarding our thermal expansion, the closing to CCGT at Ensenada Barragán is roughly 75% advanced. We continue working on all fronts, water intake structure, its treatment plant, and cooling tower. We are also commissioning the boilers and the control system. Around 1,500 people are working daily on this project. Despite all the efforts, the complexity and the impact of COVID have postponed the expected COD to the third quarter of 2022. In renewable expansion, we keep strengthening our position in the renewable B2B market by expanding our wind farm, PP3. We are adding 81 megawatt by mid-2023, and the investment is close to $130 million. This is the fourth wind project for Pampa, and once it is online, our total wind capacity will amount to 287 megawatt. In order to finance part of this project, In January, we issued our first green bond in the local market, denominated in pesos, but for the equivalent of roughly $30 million due in 18 months. We are advancing with the civil works for the PATH platform and foundations, as well as working on the purchase orders and other permits. We will assemble the anchor cages by mid-2022 and achieve COD in two stages. The first 50 megawatt by February 2023, and the remaining by May 2023. Moving on to E&P, we posted and adjusted EBITDA of $46 million in Q4, which is 2.5 times last year's figure, driven by a 32% growth in volume sold, recovery of industrial demand and export to Chile, and also driven by a 47% increase in price. Quarter on quarter, it decreased by 56%, mainly due to the seasonal price of gas. Our total lifting cost increased by 71% year-on-year and 32% quarter-on-quarter, explained by the increased capacity to keep a high level of production of gas to export more to Chile and prepare for the 2022 winter commitment. The significant and rapid increase in production required the use of temporary facilities, increasing the lifting cost per unit, to $7.8 per volume, roughly 30% more than last year and Q3. Our total production average, more than 58,000 barrel of oil equivalent per day, being 91% gas. On the oil side, which represented 22% of the segment's revenue in the quarter, volume sold was similar year on year, being 4.7 thousand barrels per day, mainly explained by local demand offset by lower exports. Quarter-on-quarter, it was 21% lower due to lower trading, and stocks recorded in Q4-21 exported in January 2022. Oil price was 42% up compared to last year, but remains similar quarter-on-quarter. Regarding gas, as shown on slide 11, our volume sold averaged 9 million cubic meters per day in the quarter, 32% up year-on-year, and similar quarter-on-quarter. Our production performance was again led by El Mangrucho, achieving another record high in December and representing 70% of the quarter's production of gas. This block is wholly owned and operated by us with outstanding productivity, boosted by its increased treatment capacity that we will talk about it later. It was also followed by Rio Neuquén's growth, which almost doubled year on year, thanks to the activities of drilling and completion of wells. Our average gas price of the quarter was $3.1 per million BTU, 47% up year on year, but 30% down quarter on quarter due to seasonal price. Export prices were high, while local prices out of the GSA were also similar to plant gas pricing levels. As you can see right below, 2021 sales are more diversified, similar to the country's breakdown. Gas retailers are also part of the plant gas and have the priority during winter, increasing their share to 40%. Also, we are growing our B2B share and taking opportunities in the Chilean market. Regarding our operations, in 2021, we completed the shale well at Sierra Chata, targeting the Vaca Muerta formation. It reached the maximum production rate of almost 800,000 cubic meters per day, with 36 fracking stages, becoming one of the most productive gas wells in Vaca Muerta. Also, as mentioned in the previous call, we keep expanding the gas treatment plant at El Mangrucho. By 2022 winter, it will grow from 6.4 to almost 9 million cubic meters per day of capacity. And since the third quarter of 2022, it will be above 13.5 million cubic meters per day. we are more than doubling its capacity compared to the end of 2021. In 2021, thanks to the outstanding work of our technical team and the productivity at El Mangrucho, we recorded a 1.8 positive reserve replacement ratio, showing an average life of 8.4 years. The proven reserves reached 157 million BOE, 11% higher than 2020, and 90% than 92% gas. mainly explained by the better production performance and well recovery factor at El Mangrucho, followed by Río Neuquén and Sierra Chata. We also succeeded in certifying shale reserves from the Vaca de Muerta formation, 40% more than 2020's volume. Moving on to the petrochemicals business, we posted an adjusted EBITDA of $9 million in Q4, similar year on year. The higher raw material cost impact was offset by the significant rise in commodity prices a local demand recovery. Quarter on quarter, the EBITDA grew slightly, driven by better prices and the off-peak period for natural gas cost. Sale volume remained similar year on year, but 12% down quarter on quarter, mainly because in Q3, there was an additional dispatch of stocks, as in Q2, a seasonal maintenance at the reforming plan took place. In Q4, 41% of the total sales volume were exports. About cash and debt, although we raised our capex to accommodate Planga's commitments, we must highlight another quarter with solid cash flow generation, driven by the outstanding operating performance from our core businesses and less interest payment due to lower debt. During Q4, the free cash flow resulted in $47 million. In comparison, last year's quarter was $84 million, mainly because of the minimum capex and low-mass PPA still in place, but offset by higher interest payment. Also this quarter, Q4 2021, working capital and others were positive, mostly explained by improved collection from CAMESA. Delays almost halved to roughly 20 days compared to the end of 2020. In addition, we repaid a net of $9 million of principal debt and collected dividends and other proceeds for $29 million in Ecuador operation. So in total, we generated $66 million net cash in the quarter, achieving $573 million of cash position by the end of 2021. Moving on to slide 15, this slide shows consolidated figures, including our affiliates and ownership but let's focus on the restricted group that reflects the bond parameters. During the quarter, we pay minor debt maturities, but if you consider the whole year during 2021, we reduced more than $190 million of debt. By the end of 2021, we posted a gross debt of $1.4 billion. The dollar debt bears an average interest rate of 7.8%. The average life as of 2021 is 4.4 years. Thanks to the operating cash flow, cash increased 23% year-on-year to $573 million. Therefore, net debt decreased by $282 million year-on-year to $866 million. The net leverage ratio improved from 2.4 times in 2020 to 1.3 times in 2021. In the next 12 months, the company faces less than $20 million of maturity. Therefore, we expect to keep strengthening our balance sheet. Also, it is worth highlighting that our international bonds are rated above the sovereign ratings. So this concludes our presentation. Now I'll turn the award to Guido, who will open the floor for questions. Thank you.

Thank you. The floor is now open for questions. If you have a question, please send us through Zoom chat. We will read and answer them in the order received. Also, please make sure your name and company are adequately displayed to introduce you to the audience. Please lower your hand once your question is answered. Should any participant need assistance, send us a chat message or raise your hand. Please hold while we poll for questions.

Our first question is from Florencia Majorga from MetLife. She would like to know any news on the Energía Base, the legacy power plants remuneration scheme.

Hello, good morning, everybody. Thank you, Maggie and Guido, for an excellent presentation. The first question about the energy base, there's been conversations between the authorities in the last few weeks and the Chamber of Power Generators. And what the authorities have indicated is that We will receive an adjustment for the legacy capacity. This time it will be in two installments. So the first one impacting the February transaction and the second tranche of the adjustment impacting in June. But unfortunately, we'll not be fully covering the inflation we suffered last year. So it will be running below that number. But if you take into account the change in the way that some power plants, the ones that are less dispatched, there's been an adjustment in that for those power plants in October or November of last year, if I'm not wrong. So taking that into account, the numbers that we are doing is that it will more or less have a similar remuneration to the one that we received during 2021. We are hoping that the resolution will be published anytime. So we should have confirmation about this in the next few weeks.

Thank you, Guus. Our next question Give me a second. Our next question comes from Andres Cardona, Citibank. He would like to know the guidance for EBITDA and CAPEX for 2022. Keep in mind that Pampa does not give guidance, but we do give the latest estimation we have.

Okay, Maggie, I start, but you can complete my answers at any time. Thank you, Andres, for the question. What we are expecting for this year in terms of EBDA and CAPEX is... Let me start... Let me go... business by business. For the petrochemical business, we have had a terrific year in 2021. So our projections are not as good as 2021, but still a very good year in average term. Given what is happening in the world with commodities, it's extremely difficult to have a figure. There's a lot of volatility. on the cost side and also on the prices of the products that we produce. But we are optimistic that we will have a very good year. Not as good as 2021, but a very good year. And On power generation, on the electricity, and let me separate it. Energía base, as I just said, we expect more or less the same pricing as last year, but we will have now more capacity because of the Loma de la Lata PPA that has mature. Actually, in terms on the PPAs, we will be getting less than last year because of the full impact of the maturity of 200 megawatts. That is 180 or 170 from Loma de Alata. and 30 megawatts from . So those two PPAs after 10 years have matured last year and now they're considered . So that will lower our revenues. What will compensate partially this is Energia Plus that there we sell energy to the industry and we expect a better price in there. So that will partially compensate the loss of the PPA. And the other news on the power generation front is that unfortunately, The COD, the moment that the Barragan expansion, the closing of the CCTG of Central Térmica Barragan, that we were expecting for the second quarter of this year. Now we think that because of the impact of COVID and especially of COVID, but also the complexity of of that expansion, that it will be online on the fourth quarter, as Maggie said. I think Maggie said third quarter of 2022. I think it's going to be early fourth quarter of 2022. So that is a delay also on the starting to generate revenues from Ensenada de Barragán. From the oil and gas business, oil, we expect more or less the same quantity, but better pricing, especially slightly better pricing because the barril criollo has not moved yet. We'll see what will happen on that during the year. But there's a small portion of our production that we export. And on that portion, we will be receiving a better pricing. On the gas side, pricing will be slightly better than last year. Basically, because of the portion that we sell to the industries, we will be able to get a better pricing and also because of the exports that we are doing this year to Chile. But we will have in 2022 at least a 20% increase in quantity compared to 2021. if after the winter we are able to export, to continue exporting to Chile or if there is high local demand as it happened this summer, our growth in production compared to 2021 will be even higher than 20%. In terms of CAPEX, We had capex of... Our capex are going up, obviously, because of the increased production that we are expecting on the EMP and the expansion we are doing on power generation. So total, compare both businesses, EMP and power generation, we are going from 250 roughly that we... that we invested in 2021 to around $400 million in 2022. That is the breakdown of that $400 million, again, for both EMP and power generation. It's around $120 million is what we consider maintenance capex. So the regular capex that we need to do to maintain the same level of production. And $280 million will be the capex that we do in order to increase production, both increase our natural gas production and also for the expansion of the wind farm that will be online early next year.

Thank you, Ruth. Our next question comes from, they are Florencia Machorga from Medlife, as well as Maria Mochano from ADCA. What's going to happen with the 2023 bond? What's your alternatives and perspectives?

Okay, so regarding the bond, we are analyzing alternatives, taking into account current central bank regulations regarding corporate debt repayments, that these regulations are in place until December 2022. So we still have a lot of time until our maturity on July 2023, and we are going to wait for... for better market conditions and also to have more clarity on regulations to decide which is the best alternative.

Thank you so much, Nico. Our next question comes from two people as well. One is from Maria Mochano from ADCAP and the other person is from Frank McCann. Let me mute Nico. Can we mute Nico? Okay, that's good. So the question comes from Frank McCann from Bank of America and Maria Mochano from ADCAP. And it is about Russia. Can you take advantage of future prices of gas given the conflict in Russia and Ukraine? And also in case of Frank, he added, Some observers are speculating that the current Russia crisis will limit gas export for the long term, with substantially drive up the demand for LNG. This could in turn raise gas prices substantially for an extended period of time. Do you see upside to natural gas prices in the local market as a result of this change? Sure. The question comes from Maria Atka, Frank McCann from Bank of America. Can you take advantage of the future plan, future prices of gas, given the conflict, Russia and Ukraine? And also, Frank would like to know, given this crisis of Russia, maybe long term prices for LNG is going to is going to be increased. Do you see this upside for natural gas in the local market as well?

OK, thank you both for the question.

Thank you, Maggie, for repeating it. If we can take advantage of the price of LNG in the short term, The short answer is no, we cannot benefit from that in a straightforward way. The plant gas was a contractualization of the market. So we have a fixed price at which we'll be selling our production. And there is a take or pay and deliver or pay obligation from both sides. So on that front, there is no way to take advantage of what has happened on the LNG market these days. But in an indirect way, I think, It helps if anyone still has a doubt whether the new pipeline is needed or how much is needed and what a huge impact it will have in the country. I think that after this winter, nobody will have any doubt. This is the price at which Argentina will be importing LNG this year. It will be several times higher than what Argentina is paying local producers. But we are also facing the risk that there is not as much LNG available as as we will need during this winter, and that will be a significant problem. Let's hope that it doesn't get that bad. I will think that yesterday we had a board meeting when one of the directors asked me a question that the figure surprised me. Let me share that with you. He asked me how many... given the current price of LNG and giving our growth in production now compared to 2020, we have grow 60% of our, we will be growing 60% of our production going from less than 7 million to 11 million this winter. How much that production saves dollars to to the country and we did the the math roughly and the figure really surprised me so let me walk you through through the the numbers this roughly slightly above four million cubic meters of natural gas per day that we will be producing this winter vis-a-vis 2020 for five months at $4.5. That is the price that we will be collecting. It's roughly $100 million in revenues. And those are... We don't receive dollars. We collect pesos at the official exchange rate. But let's say... to simplify $100 million that we will be collecting. If Argentina has to pay LNG, the same amount of LNG for five months, so 4 million cubic meters of LNG per day for five months, at the current future price of the LNG, which is 10 times. It's around $45 instead of $450 that we are collecting. That is $1 billion that Argentina saves because of the increased production of Pampa. So that gives you an order of magnitude of how important it is to get this new pipeline built. It's a game changer. It's very important for the macro of Argentina. And it's a game changer for Pampa in its capacity to significantly even double our production going forward. It will take a few years, but it is possible. Sorry, I went too far and I forgot the second part of the question.

The local...

Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from, comes from Frank McGann of Bank of America and Raoul Babb from 91. They would like to know more about EMP perspective. Frank McGann, if you could maximize the potential of your assets in EMP, what is the maximum oil and gas production that could be achieved? Raoul Babb, How should we think about CAPEX required to double gas production in the coming years? How will the CAPEX fund it? And over what timeframe will this production grow be achieved?

Okay. I will certainly ask you to repeat the question several times. Let me...

We have been, well, the investment we have been doing last year, we are doing on EMP. By May of this year, so in a couple of months from now, we will be finishing our new DPF, that is a temporary production facility. and an upgrade of an early production facility that we built last year in order to increase production. With these two new facilities, we will have the ability to go from the current level of production of 9 million cubic meters per day to 11 cubic meters per day. That is our goal. commitment in the plant gas starting in in may of this year but we are also working and that is part of the included in the capex that i mentioned earlier we are working on a new ptg in el mangruso for almost five million cubic meters of natural gas per day. So starting in September of this year, we would have facilities ready to produce 16 million, 16 or 16 and a half million cubic meters of natural gas per day. And that is all included in the capex I already mentioned. In order to go from 11 to 16 and a half, we need to increase capex in drilling and completion. And that is something that we have not yet planned because basically because although we are very optimistic that the new pipeline will be ready by next winter, still the government has not launched the fourth round of the planned gas in order to secure gas for that new pipeline. We think that that should happen in the next few months because us and the rest of the industry needs to be ready to increase those 11 million kilometers of gas that the new pipeline will will be transporting in the first phase. So if you ask me, are you able for next year to think about another 60% increase in production from the current level, from the 11 to 16 or to 17? Is it possible for Pampa? Yes. Going further than that, we have the reserves. One peculiarity about Pampa that is also very important to keep in mind is that we have the fortune of having tight gas reserves. We have shale gas reserves as well, but tight gas reserves are more competitive. And so we will be mostly developing those reserves. In order to go to 16 million, we will also be having to, would not be fully 100% tight gas reserve, but also some shale, but it will be mostly tight gas reserve. And that is in terms of competitivity vis-a-vis our colleagues that in order to grow, we need to produce from shale gas is a very good competitive advantage that Pampa has. I'm sure I missed several. Did I answer?

Yeah, you covered all. Let's move on to the next question. It's from Guillermo Levy from Morgan Stanley. He would like to know more feasibility, the feasibility of the construction of the new pipeline. The government's target is to have the pipeline online before winter 2023, but it sounds optimistic. What would you say are the risks related to the construction as well?

I think, I understand that it sounds optimistic, but it's feasible. And I understand that given our Argentina's background in this kind of infrastructure projects, that it's reasonable to have doubt whether it will be done. But from the financing perspective, It was obvious last year that the repayment of this pipeline is so, so quick. And that is with last year prices of imports, of LNG imports, Bolivia, and liquid fuels. With this year prices, the repayment of the new pipeline is less than one year. It's just a few months. So financing shouldn't be a problem. And on the other hand, the first tranche is only the $1.1 billion. Compare that to the cost of the interest that we will have this year, and it's a fraction. So it's not a matter of financing. It's not the issue. The issue is the short period of time that we have until next winter. and the complex situation of the world. But the authorities are very eager and committed to have the pipeline ready by next winter. By the end of this month, they should be opening the offers of the pipes itself. So if those offers are competitive in terms of timing, that means that the first pipes, the first tubes will be ready to install by September or October of this year. It is possible, being very aggressive, that the construction gets done from September to May or June of next year. It's very tight. Yes, it's feasible. Yes. The first tranche that is from Trataxena to Saliquelo for next winter will be just a pipe without any compression. So that's why it's only an increase of 11 million cubic meters of natural gas. Once it has compression, and that compression will be stalled in a few months later, it will go to 22 million cubic meters. So very challenging, especially from the construction point of view, but it's doable. That was the question? Yeah.

Thank you so much. Our next question comes from Frank McCann from Bank of America and Marina Mertens from AR Partners. Their question is regarding first the capital allocation for 2022 that Gustavo already covered and if there is any chance to add more projects in the power generation business.

We don't have more power generation projects in the pipeline. We would like to continue increasing the renewable side, keep building wind farms, but we haven't found a project with the attractive yield especially given the constraint on transportation capacity that renewables, especially wind farms, are suffering these days. So the country needs to expand its transportation capacity in order to make available significant increase in wind farms. Thank you.

Our next question comes from several people. They are Lucas Caldi from PPI, Constantino Papalias from Puente, and Ezequiel Fernandez. They will like to know more about the increase in the lifting cost in the EMP business.

The increased cost in the lifting is basically explained by what Margarita said during her presentation and related to these early production facilities or temporary production facilities that last year, those are facilities that are been mounted in a very short period of time. And we rented those facilities. So that is more expensive. We are now thinking to make those facilities, rather than temporary, make them permanent. So probably acquiring those facilities So going forward, those facilities... So the lifting costs should go down again probably early 2023. And especially after we finish our PTG, the one that I mentioned that will be ready in September. So... So making a long story short, the growth in the lifting is because of the high level of activity, of the huge growth in production in a very short period of time. As we said many times, we have grown 60% in the last two years, our production. And doing that so quickly, that is the reason why we have an increased cost. Going forward, I think we will be able to lower that, especially once the PTC of El Mangrucho is operational.

Thank you, Gur. Our next question comes from Ezequiel Fernandez regarding the export prices to Chile. Considering the alternative LNG prices going above $40 per million BTU, do you see any increase in your potential prices for the upcoming exports?

Yes, but I'm not a specialist. We should have one guy of the commercial team answering that question to you. Chile does not buy on the spot market Chile has long term contract so probably one portion of the gas it needs is exposed to the spot market but most of the gas it needs it's linked to long term contracts they already have so that is the price that we are competing with. So obviously give us some leverage on the negotiation, but not to the full extent of the pricing that we are seeing on the spot market.

Thank you, Guus. Our next question comes from BTG. Daniel Guardiola and Juan Jose Munoz. They would like to know the DSO of CAMESA, the outstanding of CAMESA. Let me tell you that right now we have the 42 days rule after billing, CAMESA should pay, otherwise they pay the interest. And on top of that, the delay is roughly 18 days. But this is because CAMESA has been able to to export electricity to Brazil, we expect it's going to be increased slightly. That would be the normal DSO. So roughly 70 to 75 days is going to be more normal than today's total 62 days. There is one more question from Liliana Yang. She would like to know if there is any update on hydrocarbon law. So far, no, but I don't know if Gus would like to add some more comments. No, we have cover. Please wait while we pull for more questions. Otherwise, we will be finishing in just a few minutes. So our final question comes from Ezequiel Fernandez. He would like to know what IRR we are targeting for MATER renewable projects.

I cannot give you exact numbers, but we are targeting low double digits but unfortunately the projects that we've been seeing are in this single digit environment so that makes them unattractive from our perspective that's

Okay, thank you. Thank you so much. So this concludes with a Q&A session. I'll turn the word to Guido for the final remarks.

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