PennantPark Investment Corporation

Good afternoon and welcome to the Pennant Park Investment Corporation's third fiscal quarter 2023 earnings conference call. Today's conference is being recorded. At this time, all participants have been placed in a listen-only mode. The call will open for a question and answer session following the speaker's remarks. If you would like to ask a question at that time, press the start key followed by the digit one on your telephone keypad to place your line in the queue. If you would like to withdraw your question at any time, press the start key followed by the digit two. It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Mr. Art Penn, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Pennant Park Investment Corporation. Mr. Penn, you may begin your conference.

Good afternoon, everyone. I'd like to welcome you to Pennant Park Investment Corporation's third fiscal quarter 2023 earnings conference call. I'm joined today by Rick Elorder, our Chief Financial Officer. Rick, please start off by disclosing some general conference call information and include a discussion about forward-looking statements.

Thank you, Art. I'd like to remind everyone that today's call is being recorded. Please note that this call is the property of Penn and Park Investment Corporation and that any unauthorized broadcast of this call in any form is strictly prohibited. An audio replay of the call will be available on our website. I'd also like to call your attention to the customary safe harbor disclosure in our press release regarding forward-looking information. Today's conference call may also include forward-looking statements and projections, and we ask that you refer to our most recent filings with the SEC for important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from these projections. We do not undertake to update our forward-looking statements unless required by law. To obtain copies of our latest SEC filings, please visit our website at pennandpark.com or call us at 212-905-1000. At this time, I'd like to turn the call back to our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Art Penn.

Thanks, Rick. We're going to spend a few minutes and comment on the current market environment for private credit, provide a summary of how we fared in the quarter ended June 30th, how the portfolio is positioned for the upcoming quarters, a detailed review of the financials, then open it up for Q&A. For the quarter ended June 30th, our net investment income was $0.35 per share. Core NII was $0.22 per share and excludes $0.13 of one-time dividend income related to our equity investment in Dominion Voting. Gap NAV increased 1.6% to $7.72 per share from $7.60 per share. The increase was driven largely by stable portfolio valuations and the dividend from Dominion. Adjusted NAV increased 3.1% to $7.67 per share from $7.44. The debt portfolio continues to benefit from the increase in base rates. As of June 30th, our weighted average yielded maturity was 12.7%, which is up 12.1% last quarter and 9.3% last year. During the quarter, we continued to originate attractive investment opportunities and invested $70 million in new and existing portfolio companies and a weighted average yield of 12.6%. For the investments in new portfolio companies, the weighted average debt to EBITDA was 4.1 times, the weighted average interest coverage was 2.1 times, and the weighted average loan-to-value was 36%. We continue to believe that the current vintage of middle market directly originated loans is excellent. Leverage is lower, spreads and upfront fees are higher, and covenants are tighter. We are seeing an increase in deal flow compared to the first half of 2023 and have a growing pipeline of interesting and attractive investment opportunities. Additional capital we are raising across the Pennapark platform will allow PNNT and the JV to capitalize on the attractive lending environment. At June 30th, the JV portfolio equaled $794 million, and during the quarter, the JV invested $64 million, including $62 million of purchases from PNNT. After quarter end, the JV closed a $300 million securitization. This new financing, together with the existing committed junior capital from PNNT and Pantheon, will allow the JV portfolio to grow to over $1 billion of assets. Over the last 12 months, PNNT earned a 17% return on invested capital in the JV. We expect that with the continued growth in the JV portfolio, the JV investment will enhance PNNT's earnings momentum and future quarters. Credit quality of the portfolio continues to perform well. As of June 30th, we had one non-accrual out of 129 different names at PNNT. This represents 1.1% of the portfolio cost and 0% at market value. As a result of a stable debt portfolio and the growing net investment income, the Board of Directors has approved another increase in the quarterly dividend to 21 cents per share. This increase is the seventh consecutive increase to the quarterly dividend and represents a 5% increase from the prior quarter and a cumulative increase of 75% from January 2022. The dividend will be paid on October 2nd to shareholders of record as of September 18th. We are confident that with rising or stable base rates and continued strong credit performance, the increased dividend will be fully covered by core net investment income. We believe that a portion of the investment community values a monthly dividend. As a result, the Board has also decided to change the frequency of the dividend from quarterly to monthly. This change will be implemented in October. Now let me turn to the current market environment. From an overall perspective, in this market environment of inflation, rising interest rates, geopolitical risk, and a potentially weakening economy, we are well positioned as a lender focused on capital preservation in the United States where floating interest rates on our loans can protect against rising interest rates and inflation. We continue to believe that our focus on the core middle market provides the company with attractive investment opportunities where we are important strategic capital to our borrowers. We have a long-term track record of generating value by successfully financing high-growth middle market companies in five key sectors. These are sectors where we have substantial domain expertise, know the right questions to ask, and have an excellent track record. They are business services, consumer, government services and defense, healthcare, and software and technology. These sectors have also been recession resilient and tend to generate strong free cash flow. In our software vertical, we don't have any exposure to ARR loans. In many cases, we are typically part of the first institutional capital into a company and the loans that we provide are important strategic capital that fuel the growth and help that 10 to $20 million EBITDA company grow to 30, 40, 50 million of EBITDA or more. We typically participate in the upside by making an equity co-investment. Our returns on these equity co-investments have been excellent over time. Overall, for our platform from inception through June 30th, we've invested over $403 million in equity co-invests and have generated an IRR of 26% and a multiple on invested capital of 2.2 times. Because we are an important strategic lending partner, the process and package of returns we receive is attractive. We have many weeks to do our diligence with CARE We thoughtfully structured transactions with sensible credit statistics, meaningful covenants, substantial equity cushion to protect our capital, attractive upfront fees and spreads, and equity co-investment. Additionally, from a monitoring perspective, we received monthly financial statements to help us stay on top of the companies. With regard to covenants, virtually all of our originated first lien loans had meaningful covenants which helped protect our capital. This is one reason why our default rate and performance during COVID was so strong and why we believe we're well-positioned in this environment. This sector of the market, companies with $10 to $50 million of EBITDA, is the core middle market. The core middle market is below the threshold and does not compete with the broadly syndicated loan or high-yield markets. Many of our peers who focus on the upper middle market state that those bigger companies are less risky. That is a perception and may make some intuitive sense, but the reality is different. According to S&P, loans to companies with less than $50 million of EBITDA have a lower default rate and a higher recovery rate than loans to companies with higher EBITDA. We believe that the meaningful covenant protections of the core middle market, where there's more careful diligence and tighter monitoring, have been an important part of this differentiated performance. Since inception, PNNT has invested $7.5 billion in an average yield of 11.2%, and has experienced a loss ratio of approximately 20 basis points annually. This strong track record includes our energy investments, primarily subordinated debt investments made prior to the financial crisis and recently the pandemic. With regard to the outlook, our loans, new loans in our target market are attractive, and this vintage should be particularly attractive. Our experienced and talented team and our wide origination funnel is producing active deal flow. Our continued focus remains on capital preservation, and being patient investors. We want to reiterate our goal to generate attractive risk-adjusted returns through income, coupled with long-term preservation of capital. We seek to find investment opportunities in growing middle market companies that have high free cash flow conversion. We capture that free cash flow primarily through debt instruments, and we pay out those contractual cash flows in the form of dividends to our shareholders. Let me now turn the call over to Rick, our CFO, to take us through the financial results.

Thank you, Art. The quarter ended June 30, net investment income was $0.35 per share, and core net investment income was $0.22 per share. Core net investment income excludes $0.13 per share of one-time dividend income received from our equity investment in Dominion Voting, net of an increase in accrued excise taxes, and incentive fees. Operating expenses for the quarter were as follows. Interest and credit facility expenses were $10.1 million. Base management and incentive fees were $8.9 million. General and administrative expenses were $1.9 million. And provision for excise taxes was $1.2 million. For the quarter ended June 30, net realized and unrealized change on investments and debt, including provision for taxes, was a loss of $2 million or $0.03 per share. As of June 30th, our GAAP NAV was $7.72 per share, which is up 1.6% from $7.60 per share in the prior quarter. Our adjusted NAV per share was $7.67, which is up 3.1% from the prior quarter. As of June 30th, our debt to equity ratio was 1.26 times, and our capital structure is diversified across multiple funding sources, including both secured and unsecured debt. As of June 30th, our key portfolio statistics were as follows. Our portfolio remains highly diversified, with 129 companies across 27 different industries. The weighted average yield on debt investments was 12.7%. The portfolio was invested in 55% first lien secured debt, 9% in second lien secured debt, 10% in subordinated notes to PSLF, 4% in other subordinated debt, 5% in PSLF equity, and 17% in other preferred and common equity. 96% of the portfolio is floating rate. Debt to EBITDA on the portfolio is 4.8 times, and the LTM interest coverage is 2.4 times. The portfolio as a whole has a meaningful cushion with regard to interest coverage. On a sensitivity basis for overall interest coverage to decrease to 1.0 times, base rates would need to go up 200 basis points, and EBITDA would need to decrease by 25%. This analysis is based upon the current run rate interest coverage, assuming a 5.5% base rate. Now, let me turn the call back to Art.

Thanks, Rick. In closing, I'd like to thank our dedicated and talented team of professionals for their continued commitment to PNNT and its shareholders. Thank you all for your time today and for your continued investment and confidence in us. That concludes our remarks. At this time, I would like to open up the call to questions.

Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please signal by pressing star 1 on your telephone keypad. Again, we do ask that you pick up your handset before posing your question.

That is star, it is star 1 at this time. We'll pause for a moment. We'll take your first caller in the queue. That will come from Robert Dodd from Raymond James.

Please go ahead, sir.

Hi. Good morning. Congrats on the quarter. Going to your prepared remarks, the ramp in the pipeline question is coming up on a lot of earnings. Can you give us any more color on kind of the kind of drivers there? Is it just a soaring out of the market, though the lower middle market has been more active than the upper end anyway? Or, you know, the types, refinancing, add-ons, any color like that. And then last, what's your confidence that those things are actually going to manifest?

Thanks, Robert. The disclaimer, of course, is M&A can be lumpy. So lots of things that can go. Middle market M&A is, you know, a key driver of what drives deal flow. So a little bit, it's kind of like being an economist or predicting the weather. We are busy. We are busy. We are looking at a lot of deals. What's going to land? What's going to land on this side of 930? What's going to land on the other side of 930? It's hard to say. There is a lot of deal flow in the market. It's kind of, though, like a tale of two cities. or you have some very high-quality companies that have very good growth characteristics, those types of companies are still attracting very fancy multiples in terms of enterprise value, as well as even leverage. And that's one city. And the other city is companies that do not quite have that kind of robust growth parameters, or they may be viewed as a little bit more economically sensitive. Those deals, on the other hand, are hard to predict. You know, there still, in some cases, could be significant gaps between buyers and sellers. They could come together. So, you know, we've got pipeline in both of those categories. And we're fairly certain we're going to close a bunch of deals between now and year end. But is it a very, very, very robust pipeline or not? A nice moderate pipeline, you know, who knows at this point? We're working hard. Our deal teams are working hard. We're getting a lot of inquiry. And it's nice to have, you know, at least capital around our platform to execute that. Here at PNNT, the JV has, as we said, JV has some nice capital availability. And JV has been doing very, very well. And we're hopeful that, you know, we can continue to do well and ramp that JV.

Got it. I appreciate that. Thank you. On the second one, on portfolio companies that might be struggling a little bit more in this environment, how would you characterize the response of the action to that? I mean, are they doing what you'd expect? Are they stepping up and providing support or, you know, at the margin, do you think that the decisions are getting – Are they telling you the decisions are getting harder for them or any color on that side?

Yeah, so, you know, in terms of sponsor reaction, I think it's thankfully as expected. You know, the environment, you know, like let's go back to the pandemic. That was a, there was a lot of turmoil there. That was a shock to the system. And there you might have seen sponsor behavior where, you know, people would just kind of, write off and wash their hands from the bad deals and be willing to invest in the good deals. Thankfully, in our scenario, they basically invested in and supported the companies. This environment is less of a shock. It's more of a, you know, a kind of slow grinding the companies and sponsors absorbing what higher interest rates mean. So there's less volatile movement of their cash flow. And because there's less volatile movement of their cash flow, they're not forced as much to make quick decisions about which company they're going to support and which company they're not going to support. So these decisions are being made in a slower fashion. They're generally being made in a thoughtful fashion. And by and large, we've continued to see sponsors know really support their um their companies with additional capital uh so obviously when they're putting in additional capital makes it easier for us makes it easier for us to give them some concessions when they're putting some money in junior to us uh on on the occasions that they might not put in capital junior to us then those conversations are a little bit more challenging and we have to obviously be great fiduciaries and protect our the interest of our investors and be a little harder around that. So nothing dramatic at this point. It's still kind of a slow moving, you know, slow moving scenario. And by and large, we're seeing, you know, sponsors, you know, put more money in.

I appreciate that. Thank you.

As a reminder, ladies and gentlemen, that is the start key followed by the digit one to place your line in queue. If you find that your question has been answered, you may press the star key followed by the digit two. We'll move to your next question. Casey Alexander from Compass Point Research. Please go ahead.

I just have one question, Art. In your deployments in the quarter, the 70 million that you invested, there were three new and 43 existing portfolio companies, which is a third of the portfolio. When 43 companies all do something at the same time, there must be something in common. What kind of trends are you seeing from those existing portfolio companies?

Yeah, so those – good question, Casey. That's a combination of – and this is where most of our activity, at least in a slower M&A environment, most of your activity is with your existing companies. Many of them have these delay draws, DDTLs, where they're doing add-on acquisitions. So that's a portion of it. And then also, as you know, we have revolver commitments. So – You know, the revolvers that we do have, and we try to limit them, revolvers we do have are usually priced at the same spread, and in some cases higher spread than the term loan. So, you know, delay draws, revolvers were kind of the key to the existing companies.

Okay. I appreciate it. Thanks for taking my question.

Thank you.

We'll hear next from Paul Johnson from KBW.

Yeah, good afternoon, guys. Thanks for taking my questions. In the JV, how much capacity, you know, I guess, do you kind of envision for growth there? Both, I mean, I guess is it, could you grow it any more than it is today, or is it pretty much as much as you'd like it to be in terms of, you know, percentage of your portfolio?

Yeah, so, you know, today the JV is about $800 million in total assets. with the junior capital coming from us in pantheon as well as the clo we can get to a little bit over a billion um it's a big you know big contributor to our nii so we really like it it is in our 30 bucket and so it is part of the 30 bucket so you know kind of if it ain't broke don't fix it so you know Speaking for P&NT, we'd like to continue to grow it, assuming we have room in our 30% bucket. You know, can't speak for Pantheon. We could, you know, use the 30% bucket. These JVs have been very good for our BDCs. We have one in PFLT, as you know, with Kemper. We have one in P&NT with Pantheon. These have been very good for the NII of the BDCs, and... Obviously, there's no additional management fee other than obviously on the junior capital, so it's very efficient from the standpoint of our shareholders. So, look, we're going to look to continue to potentially grow them. The structures can be very robust. Obviously, it's all kind of very secure, lower risk, first lien, senior secure debt, which you can finance safely, you know, in a number of different ways, including securitization CLO technology. And that's long-term locked-in financing, generally low cost, which really helps, you know, kind of create that return on capital that's been very attractive. So we'll continue to grow this JV. We'll continue to talk to Pantheon. And we may even do other JVs down the road.

Got it. Thanks. That's helpful. And those have been obviously very, very successful for you guys. And then just kind of turning to the market, I mean, you know, how do you kind of, I guess, observe today? I mean, it seems like activity's been picking up over the summer. You know, are lenders holding the line in terms of, you know, just discipline on terms that, you know, we've kind of seen in the first half of this year, or has that started to soften up in any way?

Yeah, so it's a good question. As you know, The upper end of the direct lending market, where we are not, takes its cue from the broadly syndicated loan space. The broadly syndicated loan space is starting to thaw, and that will create deal flow, which will create, you know, in the upper end, there's going to be, you know, the broadly syndicated loan market is competing with those folks. So, you know, on the upper end of our market, kind of the $40, $50 million EBITDA companies, We're starting to see some of the upper market guys kind of come into that zone and put a bit of pressure on that $40, $50 million EBITDA company. Kind of where we play, which is we say it's 10 to 50. Our mean median is about 20 to 30. We're not seeing any pressure yet, but we're vigilant. You know, we're vigilant. Most important thing we can do is pick solid credits, you know, and create balance sheet capacity. to take advantage of solid credit. So we still think the vintage 23, 24 is going to be good vintage, but we got to be, we got to watch the space and we got to be careful if things, you know, get out of hand as we always are. So nothing to report in our kind of core middle market space yet, but we're watching.

Thanks. Appreciate that, Art.

We'll move next to Mark Hughes from Truist.

Yeah.

Good morning. Good afternoon. Any line of sight on repayments in the September quarter? How is that trending so far?

Nothing materially different, Mark, on repayments. We have them. We're happy to get, you know, when we underwrite loans, we are, We say thank you when they pay us off. And it happens even in down markets. Even during the pandemic, certain people were paying us off. So that means kind of, you know, solid underwriting. But nothing materially different than what we've seen. You know, we're seeing a drip of repayments. We're seeing new deals. And, of course, the continued growth of the JV where we sell assets from P&NT to JV. So more of the same, but nothing meaningfully different.

When you think about the equity co-invest, have the terms of those evolved over time when you get into a challenging market where terms and conditions have been favorable for you like they have been the last few quarters? Does that also manifest in the better terms on the equity co-invest, or does that tend to be stable?

Well, that's a nuanced question because it's kind of like We invest side-by-side with the sponsor, so there's no real difference in the investment we are making with the sponsor, so there's not a lot of negotiation over the quote-unquote terms. You know, you can debate, does the multiple make sense? Is it a company that's going to grow quickly or not so quickly, or what's the downside? So I can say we've been pickier with equity co-invests over the last few quarters just because it's been a – It's been a more challenging environment to evaluate the economy. And it might be one thing to say, gee, we feel safe making a loan of four times cash flow, and the sponsor's paying 10 times for the company, so there's six times beneath us as equity cushion. That's one type of question. The second question, which should be a totally separate question, for us it is, do you co-invest in the equity at 10 times? So, of course, it's a higher bar for us to invest in the equity. Of course, we have to have greater conviction to do it, you know. And so I think I would say we've just been a little bit more selective on that equity co-invest.

Appreciate that. Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, that is the start key followed by the digit one.

If you have a question or comment, we'll hear Max from Kyle Joseph from Jefferies.

Yeah, hey, Art, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. Just kind of want to, given your portfolio size and industry exposure, kind of want to get your sense for how the economy is doing, anything you can provide us in terms of revenue and EBITDA growth trends and how that's changed. And frankly, if companies at this point are starting to see a little reprieve from inflation really starting to abate.

Yeah. Yeah, thanks, Kyle. Look, based on the numbers we're getting, it would support the soft landing scenario. There are certain areas that are soft, certain areas are very strong. But when you look at our platform, over 170 companies across the economy, it would support the soft landing. We're not seeing any areas of great stress. So, you know, kind of revenues are generally up across the platform, EBITDA is generally up. There are certain areas of weakness, such as there's areas of consumer, you know, we've talked about Walker Edison in the past. Walker Edison is a furniture company, did very well during COVID. It's reverted to the mean post-COVID, and that's been a non-accrual. So, but by and large, it supports the the soft landing theory. We say theory because as credit underwriters, as lenders, when we underwrite credit, we have to assume a recession. In a normal environment, we would say sometime during our five-year loan, we have to model in a recession. The reality is today we model in a recession kind of in year one because that's how we should be underwriting credit. We should be feeling comfortable about our loans even in recessionary environments. and even if there is a recession next year. So that's how we think about it, but we're not seeing. And to the earlier point about amendments, the amendments that seem to be coming up are really just due by and large to the much higher interest costs that these companies need to bear now that the base rates went up so substantially. When you're paying 12% on your first lien debt, 12 plus percent on your first lien debt, And if you have a lot of leverage or if you have second lien or mezzanine debt, it's sucking up all the cash flow. So that's where the amendments would typically come in.

Yeah, got it. Helpful. And then, I mean, you talked about your area of focus is kind of on smaller companies, but with all the headlines on banks and potential capital requirement increases there, how would that kind of funnel into your market, and is that a big opportunity for you guys?

I'm sorry, Kyle, the question again?

Oh, yeah, sure. With everything going on with regional banks, I know you guys focus on kind of... Regional banks, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The lower middle market and smaller companies, but would there be any sort of reverberations, and are you thinking about that as an opportunity for you guys?

Yeah, I mean, it should be. It's hard to say what exactly it's meant, At this point, I think it's too early to tell. Certainly, we did see prior to the Silicon Valley Bank turmoil, many of the companies that we would finance four or five times once they got down to under three times, regional banks would refinance those capital structures at much lower spreads to SOFR than someone such as ourselves or any other direct lender. the regional banks would be a source of exit for us. I think, you know, it's too early to tell, but, you know, perhaps the good news and the bad news, perhaps we can hold on to some of those credits a little bit longer. You know, when you're down, you know, we do have some of these where you're under three times debt to EBITDA, and we're clipping 600 or 650, and the regional bank isn't there. We're happy with that loan. We're very happy with that loan. So... That may be something that's more kind of direct for us.

Got it. Very helpful. Thanks for answering my questions. Thank you. Thank you.

We'll move next to Melissa Waddell from JP Morgan.

Good morning, Art. Thanks for taking my questions today. I wanted to touch on something that you mentioned earlier in the call about the pipeline where it's sort of bifurcated, it sounds like, between some higher quality companies with loftier valuations and then also more economically sensitive companies. And I think you mentioned that you've got sort of pipeline in both segments there. When you think about sort of portfolio management or portfolio construction for the BDC, do you think about the optimal split between those or is it just sort of see what lands and they're all suitable for the BDC?

That's a great question. I mean, I think that ends up coming out in the wash. Obviously, the higher quality, higher growing companies, we and maybe others are willing to put a little bit more leverage on because of the confidence level in that company's growth or the confidence level in that company's ability to weather you know, a choppier economic environment. On the other hand, if you're less confident about the growth or you're less confident about the company's ability to handle an economic environment, you either say no, which is what we say the vast majority of the time, or you say, let's structure a deal that is safe, where the leverage is low, where the covenants are sensible and really protect us, where there's substantial equity cushion beneath us so that we feel comfortable that if there were a bump in the road, more times than not, the sponsor would put more equity in. So that's kind of individual deal-by-deal credit underwriting. And we've learned, of course, high-quality companies usually take care of themselves. There's a whole world of credit that's made to companies that are not so lofty in quality that you can do well in. You just need to you just need to be really, really comfortable, need to look at your downside cases, need to keep leverage reasonable and covenants tight. So, you know, in the former, maybe you're a little bit more assertive about getting that equity co-invest. And in the latter, maybe you graciously decline the co-invest, you don't even ask for the co-invest. So, Again, you're talking about from a portfolio construction, is there a percentage or whatever? We've tended to have the vast majority of the portfolio in super high-quality companies, and that's generally how we underwrite and where we play.

Okay. Thanks, Art. Second question, I wanted to go to the dividend policy. Obviously, you mentioned having seven straight dividend increases. I know there's been a lot of one-time income in this quarter and also the previous quarter, but when we look at sort of a run rate core NII and with base rates sort of, we think, peaking, looking to peak in the second half of this year, Should we start to think about the dividend policy maybe starting to stabilize a bit just to ride out any change in that base rate environment going forward?

It's a great question, and every quarter it's a healthy discussion with our board of directors. Yes, it's hard for me to pound the table and say there's going to be another seven increases in the dividend. I can't do that. I shouldn't do that. And who really knows? It will take its cue from the quality of the portfolio. It will take its cue from base rates. It will take its cue from the earnings generated from the JV. You know, we are tweaking the frequency to monthly starting in October, really because we believe there's no hard numbers on this, but we see it in our other BDC PFLT. We believe there's a portion of the investment community that does value the monthly. So if it's a way to welcome other investors into our company, we certainly would like to do that. You know, we do have substantial spillover. So we're going to take it quarter by quarter. We still believe there's more upside in NII through continued, you know, growth of the JV with continued rotation of the equity. We didn't spend much time today talking about equity rotation. but there's still something like 17% of the portfolio in preferred and common equity that, you know, hopefully will be rotated, you know, at some point. So, you know, we feel comfortable at 21. We feel like we've got substantial runway, you know, above and beyond that. But it's hard for me really to comment, you know, really firmly at this point. Hopefully you can appreciate that.

Yes, I can. Thanks, Art.

And that does conclude the Q&A portion of our call today. I'd like to turn the conference back over to our host for any additional or closing comments.

Thanks, everybody. On behalf of Rick, Elorda, and myself, I want to thank you all for participating today. We are, our next quarter is the 10K, so we'll be out with earnings a little bit later than normal, kind of mid-November. So I look forward to talking to you all then and wishing everybody a healthy and happy rest of the summer. Thank you.

That does conclude today's teleconference. We thank you all for your participation. You may now disconnect.