Robert Half Inc.

Hello, and welcome to the Robert Half Fourth Quarter 2025 conference call. Today's conference call is being recorded. If you'd like to ask a question during the Q&A portion of the call, please press star and the number one on your telephone keypad. Our hosts for today's call are Mr. Keith Waddell, President and Chief Executive Officer of Robert Half, and Mr. Michael Buckley, Chief Financial Officer. Mr. Waddell, you may begin.

Hello, everyone. We appreciate your time today. Before we get started, I'd like to remind you that the comments made on today's call contain forward-looking statements, including predictions and estimates about our future performance. These statements represent our current judgment of what the future holds. However, they're subject to the risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from the forward-looking statements. These risks and uncertainties are described in today's press release and in our most recent 10-K and 10-Q filed with the SEC. We assume no obligation to update the statements made on today's call. During this presentation, we may mention some non-GAAP financial measures and reference these figures as adjusted. Specifically, we present adjusted revenue growth rates, which remove the impacts on reported revenues from the changes in the number of billing days and foreign currency exchange rates. Additionally, we present adjusted gross margin, adjusted selling general administrative expenses, and adjusted operating income by combining the gains and losses on investments held to fund the company's obligations under employee deferred compensation plans with the changes in the underlying deferred compensation obligations. Since the gains and losses from investments and the changes in deferred compensation obligations completely offset, there is no impact on our reported net income. Reconciliations and further explanations of these measures are included in a supplemental schedule to our earnings press release. For your convenience, our prepared remarks for today's call are available in the Investor Center of our website, roberthalf.com. For the fourth quarter of 2025, global enterprise revenues were 1.302 billion, down 6% from last year's fourth quarter on a reported basis, and down 7% on an adjusted basis. We are very pleased to see talent solutions and enterprise revenues return to positive sequential growth on a same-day constant currency basis for the first time in over three years. Weekly revenue trends during the quarter continued to show positive momentum, which extended into the first three weeks of January. Our revenue and earnings exceeded the midpoint of our previous fourth quarter guidance. Net income per share for the quarter was 32 cents compared to 53 cents in the fourth quarter one year ago. We entered 2026 very well positioned to capitalize on emerging opportunities and support our clients' talent and consulting needs through the strength of our industry-leading brand, our people, our technology, and our unique business model that includes both professional staffing and business consulting services. Cash flow provided by operations during the quarter was $183 million, the highest quarter this year and an 18% increase over 2024 Q4. In December, we distributed a 59 cent per share cash dividend to our shareholders of record for a total cash outlay of 59 million. Return on invested capital for the company was 10% in the fourth quarter. Now I'll turn the call over to our CFO, Mike Buckley.

Thank you, Keith, and hello, everyone. As Keith noted, global revenues were $1.302 billion in the fourth quarter. On an adjusted basis, Fourth quarter talent solutions revenues were down 9% year over year. US talent solutions revenues were $623 million, down 9% from the prior year's fourth quarter. Non-US talent solutions revenues were $200 million, down 8% year over year. We conduct talent solutions operations through offices in the United States and 18 other countries. In the fourth quarter, there were 61.4 billing days compared to 61.6 billing days in the same quarter one year ago. The first quarter of 2026 has 61.9 billing days, as did the first quarter of 2025. Billing days for the remaining three quarters of 2026 will be 63.1, 64.6, and 61.1 for a total of 250.7 billing days in the year which is the same as the full year of 2025. Currency exchange rate movements during the fourth quarter had the effect of increasing reported year-over-year total revenues by $15 million. That was $10 million for Talent Solutions and $5 million for Protivity. Contract Talent Solutions bill rates for the fourth quarter increased 3.2% compared to one year ago, adjusted for the changes in the mix of revenues by functional specialization, currency, and country. This rate for the third quarter was 3.7%. Now let's take a closer look at results for productivity. Global revenues in the fourth quarter were $479 million. $373 million of that is from the United States, and $106 million is from outside of the United States. On an adjusted basis, Global fourth quarter productivity revenues were down 3% versus the year-ago period, with U.S. productivity revenues down 6%, while non-U.S. productivity revenues were up 9% compared to one year ago. Productivity and its independently owned member firms served clients through locations in the United States and 28 other countries. Turning now to gross margin, in contract talent solutions, Gross margin was 39.2% of applicable revenues in the current quarter compared to 39.1% in the fourth quarter one year ago. Conversion or contract to hire revenues were 3.2% of contract revenues in both the current quarter and the fourth quarter of 2024. Our permanent placement revenues were 12.5% of consolidated talent solutions revenues in the current quarter compared to 12.1% in the fourth quarter of 2024. When combined with contract talent solutions gross margin, overall gross margin for talent solutions was 46.7% of applicable revenues in the current quarter compared to 46.4% in the fourth quarter of 2024. For productivity, gross margin was 21.9% of productivity revenues in the fourth quarter and 24.9% in the fourth quarter one year ago. Adjusted gross margin for productivity was 22.8% for the quarter just ended compared to 25.1% last year. We ended 2025 with 11,200 full-time productivity employees and contractors, up 1.5% from the prior year. Enterprise selling general and administrative costs were 35.9% of global revenues in the fourth quarter compared to 34.1% in the same quarter one year ago. Adjusted enterprise SG&A costs were 34.6% for the quarter just ended compared to 33.8% one year ago. Talent solutions SG&A costs were 47.6% of talent solutions revenues per quarter. versus 44.4% in the fourth quarter of 2024. Adjusted talent solutions, SG&A cost 45.6% for the quarter just ended, compared to 43.9% last year. We ended 2025 with 7,400 full-time internal employees in talent solutions, down 3.2% from the prior year. Fourth quarter SG&A costs for productivity were 15.7% of productivity revenues compared to 15.3% for the same quarter one year ago. Operating income for the fourth quarter was $22 million. Adjusted operating income was $43 million in the quarter, worth 3.3% of revenues. Fourth quarter adjusted operating income from our talent solutions divisions was $9 million, or 1.1% of revenues. adjusted operating income for productivity in the fourth quarter was 34 million or 7.1% of revenues. Our fourth quarter 2025 income statement includes a $21 million gain from investments held in employee deferred compensation trusts. This is completely offset by an equal amount of higher employee deferred compensation costs, which are reflected in SBA expenses and direct costs. As such, it has no effect on a reported net income. Our fourth quarter tax rate was 32% compared to 28% one year ago. The higher tax rate in the current quarter is due to the increased impact of non-deductible expenses relative to lower pre-tax income. At the end of the fourth quarter, accounts receivable were $750 million, and implied sales outstanding, or DSO, was 51.8 days. Before we move to first quarter guidance, let's review some of the monthly revenue trends we saw in the fourth quarter and so far in January, all adjusted for currency and billing dates. Contract Talent Solutions exited the fourth quarter with December revenues down 8.9% versus the prior year, compared to a 9.9% decrease for the full quarter. Revenues for the first two weeks of January were down 6.6%, compared to the same period last year. Permanent placement revenues in December were down 11% versus December 2024. This compares to a 5.9% decrease for the full quarter. For the first three weeks in January, permanent placement revenues were down 9.4%, compared to the same period in 2025. We provide this information so that you have insight into some of the trends we saw during the fourth quarter and into January. But as you know, these are very brief time periods. We caution against reading too much into them. With that in mind, we offer the following first quarter guidance. Revenues, 1.26 billion to 1.36 billion Income per share, 8 to 18 cents. Midpoint revenues of 1.31 billion are 5% lower than the same period in 2025 on an adjusted basis. Our midpoint revenue guidance for the first quarter reflects continued positive adjusted sequential revenue growth for Talent Solutions. Our Q1 midpoint adjusted operating margin guidance declined sequentially by one percentage point, which is consistent with long-term historical trends. This includes productivity's sequential decline of four percentage points. Historically, productivity's Q1 segment margins seasonally declined by mid-single-digit percentage points on a sequential basis. There are two primary drivers. Internal audit revenues are negatively impacted, as clients focused instead on annual financial statements and related external audits. In addition, creativity employees receive annual compensation adjustments effective January 1st, which are recovered through pricing adjustments realized as client contracts are negotiated. Segment margins then improve accordingly. We estimate our midpoint tax rate for the first quarter to be 56 to 58%. This is much higher than normal for two reasons. As expected, tax charge related to stock compensation and the magnified impact of non-deductible tax items when measured against seasonally low Q1 pre-tax income. A majority of our employees' stock compensation awards vest in the first quarter each year, as the related tax impacts are measured based upon the stock price at that time. With the current stock price below grant values, the tax charge estimated at four and a half million or five cents per share results. For the remainder of 2026, a quarterly tax rate of 33 to 35% is expected. The major financial assumptions underlying the midpoint of these estimates are as follows. Adjusted revenue growth year over year For talent solution, down 4% to 8%. Creativity, flat to down 4%. Overall, down 3% to 6%. Adjusted gross margin percentages for contract talent, 38% to 40%. Creativity, 18% to 21%. Overall, 35% to 38%. Adjusted SG&A has a percentage of revenues for talent solutions, 44 to 46%. For productivity, 15 to 17%. Overall, 33 to 36%. Adjusted operating income has a percentage of revenues for talent solutions, 0 to 3%. Productivity, 2 to 5%. Overall, 1 to 3%. Tax rate, 56 to 58%. Shares, 99 to 100 million. 2026 capital expenditures and capitalized cloud computing costs, 70 to 90 million, with 10 to 20 million in the first quarter. All estimates we provide on this call are subject to the risks mentioned in today's press release and in our SEC . Now I'll turn the call back over to Keith. Thank you, Mike.

Our fourth quarter results reflect a return to sequential growth on a same-day constant currency basis for the first time since early 2022. Concerns around a near-term economic downturn have moderated, subordinated by a more conducive macro environment. Continued progress in the rate-cutting cycle, easing inflation, less regulation, and relatively more clarity on trade policy all contribute. The NFIB small business optimism index has continued to trend higher, with hiring plans holding steady and labor availability remaining a key constraint. At the same time, the uncertainty index declined meaningfully last month, falling to its lowest level since June of 2024. Although hiring and quit rates remain subdued, Job openings continue to run well above historical averages, underscoring significant pent-up demand for skilled professionals. Decision timelines are beginning to shorten, and we're seeing increased client engagement as clients revisit postponed initiatives and discuss hiring tied to business critical priorities. Internal resource levels at small businesses remain particularly lean, as these companies have focused on cost containment for much of the last four years. Employment data from the ADP National Employment Report indicates that between January of 22 and December of 2025, companies with fewer than 500 employees have grown their employee counts by only 1.1% annually, while below the 2.8% annual growth rate seen among companies with over 500 employees. As project activity begins to pick up, this places additional strain on already limited internal capacity. Against this backdrop, unemployment remaining low and skilled talent in short supply, clients increasingly require specialized expertise to help fill open roles and execute critical work supporting demand for both our talent solutions and consulting services. While perspectives on medium to long-term structural impact of AI on the labor market vary greatly, most of the evidence suggests a negligible impact so far on our areas of employment, particularly among small businesses. For example, a very recent study by Oxford Economics concludes that, quote, Firms don't appear to be replacing workers with AI on a significant scale, and we doubt that unemployment rates will be pushed up heavily by AI over the next few years." Also, feedback from our SMB clients indicates that potential future labor savings from AI are not a material factor in their current headcount decisions. That said, as AI reshapes how work gets done, and the skills required for many roles evolve, clients are increasingly relying on us to help them navigate change, deploy talent quickly, and support the implementation of new technologies, including their requisite data requirements. At the same time, the fast-growing use of generative AI by job seekers, particularly to tailor their resumes to client opportunities, has made it more difficult. for clients to distinguish among candidates and authenticate their qualifications. This further reinforces the value of our services, including our proprietary data on actual candidate performance. As expected, productivity's year-over-year growth rate showed improvement in the quarter, although it continued to be impacted by tougher prior comparables from large project builds and by longer sell cycles and smaller-sized new engagements. Pertivity's pipeline remains strong across all its major solution areas, and at the midpoint of our Q1 revenue guidance, its growth rates are expected to continue to improve. Our strategic engagement of contract professionals via our talent solutions divisions plays an essential role in Pertivity's success and further amplifies our unique enterprise-wide competitive advantage. Productivity was recently recognized on Glassdoor's Best Places to Work for a third consecutive year. We began 2026 energized by our time-tested corporate purpose to connect people to meaningful and exciting work and provide clients with the talent and consulting expertise they need to confidently compete and grow. We've weathered many economic cycles in the past, each time emerging to achieve higher peaks. Aging workforce demographics and clients' desire for flexible resources with variable costs are structural tailwinds that are expected to propel us forward in the years to come. Finally, we'd like to thank our global workforce for their continued dedication. Their efforts once again earn Robert Half recognition by Fortune as one of the world's most admired companies for the 29th consecutive year. We're proud. but our unique position as the only company in our industry to be awarded this distinction for nearly three decades. We are also recognized as one of Forbes' world's top companies for women and chosen by Newsweek as one of America's most responsible companies. Now, Mike and I would be happy to answer your questions. Please just ask one question, a single follow-up as needed, and if there's time, we'll come back to you for additional questions.

Thank you. If you would like to signal with questions, please press star 1 on your touchtone telephone. If you're joining us today using a speakerphone, please make sure your mute function is turned off to allow your signal to reach our equipment. If you would like to withdraw your question, please press star 2 on your touchtone telephone. Again, that is star 1 if you would like to signal with questions. Your first question will come from Andrew Steinerman with J.P. Morgan. Again, Andrew Steinerman, your line is open. Please go ahead with your question. Hearing no response from that line, we'll take our next question from Mark Marcon with Baird.

Hey, good afternoon. Ethan, Mike, you know, it looks like, you know, first of all, it's good to see that you're returning to sequential. growth here. And, you know, when we take a look at the guide as it relates to, you know, 2026, we're still looking at a year over year decline. But you're expecting margins on the whole to improve primarily because of productivity. And so what I'm wondering about is, it's great to see the projection for the margins to improve. I'm wondering how you're thinking about, you know, the top line potentially inflecting in a, you know, kind of a modest economic environment. Obviously, there's still a lot of discussion with regards to, you know, the impact of AI and a lot of it is unknown and a lot of it is changing rapidly. So, I'm wondering, you know, how are you thinking about the top line from a longer-term perspective And also, you know, if we end up having just a very moderate sort of improvement in terms of the top line, what are some of the steps that you've taken to increase the efficiency of the operations, which it seems like we're seeing in the first quarter, but just when we think about it from a longer-term perspective in order to be able to get back to, you know, halfway back and then ultimately all the way back to, you know, prior margins?

And so, Mark, on the top line, so if you take our current trend line from a sequential revenue point of view, we would return to positive year-over-year growth in the third quarter. And that would be both talent solutions, productivity, and enterprise. As to steps for efficiency... I'd say we, as you know, we've held on to our best producers throughout this downturn, and we would expect that they would ramp more quickly than what we'd otherwise ramp, and there's some positive leverage from that. We continue to get traction from our own use of AI, both in terms of how we match and in terms of rank ordering the prospects that we pursue. as we try to capture that additional revenue as it becomes available. And so we've said for some time, we certainly expect we can retrace in a positive way, the negative leverage we've had to deal with over the last four years.

That's great. And then within talent solutions, how are you thinking about the per market, just given You know, given, you know, relatively flat, you know, no hire, no fire kind of an environment thus far, do you think that that ends up being some sort of change? And what sort of impact as we start getting to peak 65 could we end up seeing?

I'd say that PERM is stronger than the headlines would lead you to believe. As we talked last quarter, we have just as much difficulty getting candidates to change jobs as we do getting clients having demand for additional roles and positions. And so given that the market remains tight, given that candidates remain conservative in their willingness to entertain new roles, I'd say the PERM outlook is solid. And, again, I understand the no hire, no fire overall environment, but our SMB clients are in a different place. As we talked about, they've added significantly fewer people the last four years. They've been in cost mode for quite some time. They've largely normalized their headcounts for that over that extended period of time, and they're left very lean. not only from a full-time standpoint, but point for contractors as well. I would just say SMB is in a very different place.

That's great. Thank you.

And the next question will come from Andrew Steinerman with JPMorgan.

Hi, Keith. It's Andrew. I wanted to ask you about what I've been hearing with really kind of industry, staffing industry executives, talking about the current labor uncertainty because of AI driving more interest in flexible workers as the labor recovery takes hold. What do you think of this thesis and have you seen any evidence that flex might kind of gain share even in a moderate labor hiring environment?

Well, I think any time uncertainty declines, clients are more willing to add resources, that early on they're conservative of adding those resources full-time and are more receptive to contract help. I think in addition now, we've got this uncertainty around, well, if I hire full-time now, I might need to adjust that later because of AI is going to make everyone more productive, I think it certainly adds to that potential. But as I said in my prepared remarks earlier, we're not seeing a lot of current demand on the full-time side by clients saying they're holding off on their own internal hiring because of AI. I think they're basically saying, particularly SMB again, that they're not being impacted. for the potential of what AI might become.

And the next question will come from Trevor Romeo with William Blair.

Good afternoon. Thank you very much for taking the questions. I have one on productivity. I think you disclosed the headcount numbers. Talk about, I think, 1.5% growth for productivity, including contractors last year. while revenue, I think, was flat. So I think some rough math there, productivity is revenue per head, you know, well below what it was several years ago. So at this point, you know, what are your headcount growth plans for 2026 there for productivity, and how much revenue upside do you think you could capture in that segment without adding meaningful headcount from where you are now?

Well, the other dynamic in productivity as headcount is our use of contractors, which flexes. with their revenue and their revenue expectations. And so clearly their full-time staff is underutilized relative to what it could and arguably should be. Further, as we've talked about before, some of their full-time staff is underutilized in that they've been reassigned to roles typically performed by contractors at much lower rates. And so there's hidden capacity, if you will, there as that converts to what they're typically working on. And so I'd say there's full-time capacity. There's also contractor capacity relative to what it's been in the past. So I don't think productivity is concerned about having their resources to scale up quickly and appropriately as the revenues support.

Okay. Thank you. Helpful there. And then just sort of a, I guess, a modeling question. You know, last quarter, I think you were kind enough to call out the typical seasonal trends for two quarters ahead. I was wondering if you might be able to do that again for Q2, what you've kind of historically seen for revenue and earnings, just so we're all on the same page heading into next quarter.

Well, there's certainly nothing near as dramatic as is the case for the first quarter because of productivity's seasonal impacts. But typically in the second quarter, on the contract side, it's modestly down on a same-day basis. For full-time, it's typically up seasonally relative to the first quarter. For Tivity, they began to recover from their seasonal low Q1, and Overall, we certainly have more profitability in Q2 than we do Q1, but the seasonal impacts are nowhere near in Q2 what they are in Q1. Okay.

That is helpful. Thank you.

And by the way, the tax rate that's been jumping all over the place, as we talked about, it normalizes back to 33%, 34% in Q2 and beyond. versus the much higher number that was the case in Q1.

And the next question will come from Manav Patnaik with Barclays.

Hi, good afternoon. This is Ronan Kennedy. I'm from Manav. Thank you for taking my question. Keith, you talked in your response to Mark's question on the first positive same-day CC sequential growth. that if the momentum or if the trend sequentially continues, you would see positive growth in the third quarter. Could we just get a sense of your optimism on that and what you would need to see in the February-March weekly trends to confirm it will be a potential multi-quarter recovery? You know, if it's anything beyond weekly revenue such as time to fill, the REC, conversion, pipeline, anything else. You also referenced some external leading indicators. What can you place trust in at this stage, whether it's ADP, NFIB, JOLTS, ASA, SAI? Curious, you know, as to your thoughts there and your overall optimism.

Well, I'd say our overall optimism is a reflection of, A, discussions with clients, B, weekly results, I'm very happy to report that as of this morning, and we get weekly results every Thursday, but as of this morning, they were very encouraging and better than they had been even for the first three weeks, which were good themselves. And so we sit here feeling very good about very short-term trends. As to external indicators and sources, there's no magic there. We look at everything. We look at ASA. We look at SIA. We look at NFIB. We look at PMIs. I mean, we look at everything. But nothing has a high correlation factor in and of itself. But altogether, I mean, it certainly tells a trend story. And generally speaking, the entire staffing industry is trending upwards. Most are close to, if not at, positive year-on-year revenue growth. And I would say the differential there with us is most of them are larger, mid- and large-cap enterprise-serving staffing firms. We're mostly SMB. Enterprise typically leads SMB, even ourselves. We're 70% SMB, 30% mid-cap. That mid-cap is doing better than SMB as we speak. So it's not a surprise that we're lagging a little. But like I said earlier, at current trends, which we're feeling even better about as of today, at those current trends, we'd be positive year-on-year third quarter. That's a great thing.

Understood. Thank you. Appreciate it. And may I ask for your current assessment of capital allocation and sustainability of the dividend?

So the really good news is our cash flow, our free cash flow, operating cash flow for the fourth quarter was really strong. And in fact, we added $100 million to our cash balance after paying for the dividend. And so for all of 2025 for the full year, our free cash flow covered the dividend, and we reached into the balance sheet for about $100 million to buy stock. And so given those trends, if you extrapolate them that we just talked about, that would say that we would have enough free cash flow in 2026 to cover the dividend, and then we would have – we could then look to our balance sheet to the extent we wanted to buy stock. And so – Excellent, excellent Q4 free cash flow quarter, the highest of the year. We did a very nice job of managing our working capital on both the receivables and the liability side. And we also got a $20 million benefit from the new tax act from expensing what would otherwise be capital cost. But even without that, it would have been our highest quarter of the year by a long shot, which is a great thing.

Thank you. Appreciate it.

And the next question comes from Stephanie Moore with Jefferies.

This is Harold on for Stephanie Moore. I guess just on productivity, it seems as though like the revenue growth performance globally was a little bit different in the U.S. versus international. So I wanted to know if you guys could discuss, you know, what you're seeing, in the productivity business in the U.S. versus internationally, and just any comments you did give on what you're seeing on the pricing side of that business. Thank you.

And so U.S. versus international productivity international is stronger for a couple of reasons. One, the regulatory environment with financial institutions is internationally is stronger. That is the case in the U.S. The regulatory environment in the U.S. is more benign. Examiners are more accommodating. That allows clients to use more of their internal resources for things they might otherwise have used outside partners for. So that's a modest headwind for U.S. productivity. Not the case for Europe productivity, if you will. Further, U.S. productivity as these larger projects that are just beginning to anniversary that impact their growth rates. The international locations didn't have the same extent of those larger projects. And to the extent they've had them, they haven't wound down. And so that would put international productivity a bit stronger. The other thing that I would say, offsetting what I just said about U.S., technology consulting in productivity, U.S. included, is very strong. It's actually leading as we speak. It's productivity's largest solution area, particularly in the United States. Platform modernization is a big demand driver. Productivity is participating nicely there. And so we feel good about productivity globally, U.S. and non-U.S. Pricing environment for some time has been very competitive with the big four. That continues. Not really worse. Not really better.

Got it. Thank you. I guess when you think of pricing going forward, as AI is implemented, do you see risk as if customers or to the access share in that benefit. And I guess my other question is just on ACS, on admin and customer support, I guess to what degree of confidence do you have that business line, rebalancing line at historical levels, you know, in the quarter seems to remain fairly weak and, Given implementation of AI, there are comments out there that say that this line could be one of the most at risk. So, if there's any comments or not, it would be super helpful. And that's all from me. Thank you.

So, productivity pricing going forward in the AI era. and virtually every consulting firm is currently looking at should they, could they, will they price differently than hourly time and materials going forward? Should it be more outcome-based? Should it be more unit-based based on what's being worked on, you know, number of cases, number of transactions? And so I would say the entire industry is taking a very – creative and innovative look at how it prices with a strong consideration to the value added and how should they appropriately participate in the value added that might be different than the time and materials of late, but early days there. ACS, we do have confidence in ACS. ACS had a couple of larger projects at the end that kept its negative growth rates higher than the rest. Oddly enough, and kind of counter to the trend you hear about, our customer surface, which includes call center, actually did better than the rest of ACS. So you can't pin AI call center impact on ACS's relative performance.

And the next question will come from Jeff Silber with BMO Capital Markets.

Thanks so much. I want to ask a couple questions about talent solutions that were asked about productivity. First, if we can just focus on your internal headcount. I know we shrunk a little bit, but the rate of decline, I guess, is getting less worse, so to speak. What do you expect for 2026? Do you think you'll be adding headcount in talent solutions, and what will it take to get there?

On talent solutions, we did not reduce heads as much as revenues would have otherwise dictated as things declined. And we, therefore, have unused capacity anywhere from 15% to 30% based on what metrics you use and how robust the demand environment is. but we can grow nicely in talent solutions without adding heads, given what we've done so far, which is hold on to our better people.

All right, that's great to hear. And then also on talent solutions, can we just get some comments, what's going on internationally versus the U.S., and if you can focus on any specific markets that are doing better or worse, that would be great.

Well, and as we break out the growth rates between U.S. and international talent solutions, frankly, they're not very different one to another. Generally speaking, Germany is doing well. The U.K. is doing well. Canada is doing well. And Brazil are doing well. But not much different than the last few quarters and not much different than the U.S.,

I appreciate the caller. Thanks so much.

And the next question comes from Kevin McVey with UBS.

Thanks so much. And thank you for all the perspective. Keith, were there any charges or right sizing of the expense base to position for 26 to help with some of the margin expansion that it looks like you're going to be able to put up over the course of the year?

no special charges in fourth quarter for headcount related or any other expenses. And it's pretty much taking our current cost structure and getting more efficient where we can, getting more on the productivity side as they manage kind of all levels of their pyramid from managing directors down to the entry-level consultants and the mix of that versus contractors, all of those play a part in their gross margins and their operating margins. So no special charges. It is what it is. It's straightforward. But we do believe we can add to margins. In fact, Pertivity, I would say Pertivity would be disappointed if for 2026 they didn't add 100 to 200 basis points to their gross and operating margins for the year.

Got it. And then the commentary on the Q2 was super helpful. Do you think from an EPS perspective, should it be kind of the normal sequential step up that you see from a Q1 to Q2?

I would say that's true. I think you need to be careful when you look at 2025's sequential trend from Q1 to Q2. We took a a cost action charge in Q1 that didn't repeat in Q2. And so that progression is not representative of a normal progression, and just be careful with that. But otherwise, from a revenue standpoint, as I said earlier, not much typical impact. Contract a little less seasonally. Perm a little more seasonally. productivity better and particularly better on the margin side as they start to distance themselves from their seasonally low first quarter.

So I know last year was about 24 cents. So do you think maybe like 15? Because I know there's the adjustment factor on the tax rate too, right? The tax rate goes down a lot from Q1 to Q2.

That's right. That's right. And again, I think Last year and prior trends at the revenue line are fine, but just be careful on SG&A not to overly rely on the short-term trend because of the cost actions.

And that was, again, about $0.17, I think, last year, right? Or $0.08, something like that?

It was $17 million, as I recall. in cost, in severance cost in Q1 that didn't repeat in Q2. So Q2 showed an improvement with the absence of those costs, and you won't see that improvement this Q2 because we don't have those severance costs.

That's a normal tax rate, Keith, on the $17 million, right, just to make that adjustment?

Right, right. Right.

Thank you.

Yep.

And the next question will come from Kartik Mehta with North Coast Research.

I was hoping to go back to your comments on productivity and pricing. And you had said kind of the big four, you know, nothing is different. It kind of stays the same. As you look to get price increases in 2026, I'm assuming you will since you've got to offset the comp expense. You know, what's the environment like and maybe your confidence level as to why you might be able to get some price increases and 2026 to offset cost expense increases?

Well, I didn't say the industry aren't getting any increases. They are. But the other dimension to this is the nature of the work, both as to industry, as to solution, and many times that mix determines the composite rate as much as anything. Generally speaking, the industry is getting cost of living type increases as they have to give those to their staff, which is true with productivity as well. But mix is a big deal, and as productivity has had less of the large high margin FSI regulatory that it has replaced with smaller, somewhat lower margin, other types of work, there's been some compression there. But again, it's not like there are no increases currently in bill rates. What you see is more function of mix, of relative mix of resources than the pure same level last year versus same level this year.

And then just your comments on AI, obviously maybe not having as a negative of an impact as people would like to think, but what about on the other side? You know, how could this be a driver or how much of a driver could it be, especially for productivity and maybe talent solutions in terms of helping your customers?

Well, and that's an interesting question. A couple of comments on AI generally before I get to that. I'd say everybody wants to target accounting as being especially vulnerable to AI. And I would argue, and I would at least ask everyone to consider, that accounting, even at SMBs, is already fully automated. Even the smallest companies use QuickBooks and NetSuite. They have tax software, et cetera. And so I think you need to think about the starting point as to how impactful AI would be as much as what the impact itself going to be. I also would suggest that you need to think about that accounting is very precise and accuracy sensitive, which matters Because currently, Gen AI, LLMs, are nowhere near as accurate as they need to be to be trusted in accounting. And so, as you think about AI adoption, particularly in accounting, particularly for SMBs, I think those are factors that need to be considered that typically aren't when people kind of race to accounting as particularly vulnerable. As to Upside, AI is actually making it harder for our clients to hire. It's now easier for job seekers to mass apply, which overwhelms our clients. Further, over half, according to Gardner, job seekers today are using AI to tailor their resume to the job requirement, which makes it harder for our clients to distinguish one candidate from another. Further, LLM hallucinations in that process of tailoring resumes are actually creating fictitious work histories to improve the match. To prove this, we did a little test with our data science group. We took 25,000 job descriptions. We took 50,000 resumes. We gave those to the top three LLMs. And the prompt was, while staying true to the original resume, tailor the resume to the job requirement. And what we found was one of the LLMs frequently fabricated and created fictitious work history. One of the LLMs never did that, and one was in the middle. But the point is, it's harder than ever for our SMB clients to trust what a resume shows, particularly as to work history, which makes our services, our vetting even more valuable. And for us, the gold standard for vetting is having performance ratings for how candidates actually performed on prior assignments. And so as AI makes it harder for our clients to hire, we play a bigger and more important role, which is good for us.

Thank you. I appreciate that, Keith.

And the next question will come from Toby Sommer with Truist Securities.

Thanks, Keith. I want to just ask you a question about what incremental margins historically look like in a recovery, and then maybe you could point out any nuances or differences that you would anticipate as revenue improves here versus that historic norm.

I guess the easiest way to think about it for us is, and hopefully a conservative way to think about it, is we retrace on the way back up what happened on the way down. And as we de-levered costs on the downside, we'll re-lever those costs on the upside. And while everybody wants to first attribute the headcount deleveraging to our recruiters and salespeople, quite frankly, it's much more related to corporate services and field management. And I would argue those are easier to relever than would necessarily be the case with recruiters and salespeople. And so I would say the conservative thing to do would be to retrace the path up similar to the path down.

Understood. If you could dig into productivity, what are the industry verticals that are, you know, sort of growing and contributing the most versus those that may be lagging? And in your answer, I'd love it if you could touch on financial services and where that falls.

Well, clearly, FSI is Proctivity's largest industry group. As I said earlier, in the United States, the regulatory environment has become more benign. Examiners are more flexible, particularly with deadlines and dates, which means clients have more time to do it themselves, which comes at some expense to all of the third-party providers, Proctivity included. And so there's a modest headwind, modest headwind there. That's being offset by tech modernization, all the data optimization, platform modernization, everything related to that that Pertivity is participating in nicely. Further, they're starting to see traction in the PE, IPO transaction market. which there's also a tailwind coming from that. And so when you look at Pertivity's pipeline, it is disproportionately tech-related as we speak, and we feel good about that. Tech consulting is Pertivity's largest solution area across their solutions, and it's been that way for some time, and it's becoming even more so as all this demand related to tech modernization, data optimization in advance of AI are prevalent.

Thank you. And the next question will come from Mark Marcon with Baird.

A follow-up with regards to the, with regards to this, you know, the margin improvement as you, as you relever. You know, if we take a look at 2025, you know, we did $5.375 billion in terms of revenue with even a margin of 3.4% for the full year. And obviously, that included a charge, so we could strip that out. But what I'm wondering is, you know, back in 2018 2019, pre COVID, we were able to generate you know, 10% EBITDA margins in the, you know, doing 5.8 to $6 billion in revenue. And so, I'm wondering, is that a more appropriate way to think about, you know, the level of revenue growth that we need to get as it relates to the incremental margins? Or do we need to get, you know, back into, we obviously had a post-pandemic boom, in 2022 and parts of 2021. Do we need to get back to those revenue levels in order to get back to double-digit margins?

You know, I haven't done the specific math that you're referring to, but I would say the biggest difference would be between pre-pandemic and now has been the cumulative inflation since then. And so we've had to – pay our workforce that cumulative inflation. And that has to be offset as part of getting back to those margins, those EBIT margins.

Got it.

And then... Internal staff, right?

Yeah.

The contractor staff, it's a pass-through that we've covered nicely with gross margins.

In this level setting, you mentioned, you know, if the normal seasonal trends occur, then, you know, we may end up inflecting to positive year-over-year growth in the third quarter. If that ends up occurring, what would be a kind of a realistic, you know, margin assumption around if we were just modestly up 1% to 2%?

Well, again, I started with productivity would be disappointed if they don't get another 100 to 200. I heard that. Talent solutions, I think with a continuation of the trend that we're talking, we would have modest improvements in the short term for that incremental revenue. But again, it would certainly be nice to see positive year-on-year growth of kind of low to mid-single digits. in the third quarter.

Certainly would. Great. Thank you.

Okay. So that was our last question. We appreciate you joining us today. Thank you very much.

Thank you. This concludes today's teleconference. If you missed any part of the call, it will be archived in audio format in the Investor Center of Robert Half's website. at roberthalf.com. You can also log in to the conference call replay. Details are contained in the company's press release issued earlier today.