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spk09: Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Q2 2021 Simon Property Group earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star 1 on your telephone. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. Should you require any further assistance, please press star 0. I would now like to hand the conference over to your host, Senior Vice President, Investor Relations, Tom Ward. You may begin.
spk12: Thank you, Lateef, and thank you all for joining us this evening. Presenting on today's call is David Simon, Chairman, Chief Executive Officer, and President. Also on the call are Brian McDade, Chief Financial Officer, and Adam Roy, Chief Accounting Officer. Before we begin, a quick reminder that statements made during this call may be deemed forward-looking statements within the meaning of the safe harbor of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. And actual results may differ materially due to a variety of risks, uncertainties, and other factors. We refer you to today's press release and our SEC filings for a detailed discussion of the risk factors relating to those forward-looking statements. Please note that this call includes information that may be accurate only as of today's date. Reconciliations of non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures are included in the press release and the supplemental information in today's Form 8-K filing. Both the press release and the supplemental information are available on our IR website at investors.sinan.com. Our 8-K filing is still in process with the FCC. However, it has not yet been accepted tonight. In the meantime, as mentioned previously, the 8-K has been posted to our website. Now, for those of you who would like to participate in the question and answer session, we ask that you please respect our request to limit yourself to one question and one follow-up question so we might allow everyone with interest the opportunity to participate. For our prepared remarks, I'll please introduce David Simon.
spk14: Good evening. I'm pleased to report our business is solid and improving. Demand for our space and our well-located properties is increasing. I'll turn to some highlights. Our profitability and cash flow have significantly increased. Second quarter funds from operations were $1.22 billion, or $3.24 cents per share our domestic operations had an excellent quarter our international operations continue to be affected by governmental closure orders and capacity restrictions which cost us roughly six cents per share for this quarter compared to our expectations due to the equivalent of a two and a half month of closures As we said in the press release, our quarter results included a non-cash gain of $118 million or 32 cents per share from the reversal of a deferred tax liability at Clay Pierre. We generated over $1 billion in cash from operations in the quarter, which was $125 million more than the first quarter. And additionally, compared to the second quarter of last year, our cash flow from operations was break even due to the lockdown. Domestic international property NOI combined increased 16.6% year over year for the quarter and 2.8% for the first half of the year. Remember the first quarter of 2020, was relatively unaffected by the COVID-19 pandemic. These growth rates do not include any contribution from the Taubman portfolio or lease settlement income. Malls and outlets occupancy at the end of the second quarter was 91.8%, an increase of 100 basis points. Compared to the first quarter, we continue to see demand for space across our portfolio from healthy local, regional, and national tenants, entrepreneurs, restaurateurs, and mixed-use demand ever so increasing day by day. Our team is active in signing leases with new and exciting tenants. Average base minimum rent was $50.03. Our average base rent was impacted by the Initial lower base rents we agreed to in addressing certain tenant COVID negotiations in exchange for lower sales breakpoints. The variable rents that were recognized in the first half of the year were included. It would add approximately $5 per foot to our average base minimum rent. Leasing spreads declined again due to mix of deals that are now included, as well as the activity that had fallen out of the spread given its rolling 12-month nature and metric. New leasing activity that has affected the spread include large footprint entertainment, fitness, and large-scale retailers. These boxes, big box deals, reduced our opening rate as they're all included in our spread metric. As a reminder, the opening rate included in our spread calculation does not include any estimates for percentage rent-based income based on sales, as I mentioned just recently. Leasing activity accelerated in the quarter. We signed nearly 1,400 leases for approximately 5.2 million square feet and have a significant number of leases in our pipeline. Through the first six months, we signed 2,500 leases for over 900, I'm sorry, 9.5 million square feet. Our team executed leases for 3 million more square feet or over approximately 800 more deals compared to the first six months this year, as well as, I'm sorry, compared to the first six months of 2019. We have completed nearly 90% of our expiring leases for 2021. We recently had deal committee. And what I'm told by my leasing folks is that that was the most active deal committee that they've had in several years. Now, retail sales continued increase. Total sales for the month of June were equal to June 2019 and up 80% compared to last year and were approximately 5% higher than May sales. If you exclude two well-known tenants, our mall sales were up 8% more than compared to June of 2019. Multiple regions in the US recorded higher sales volume in June and for the second quarter compared to our 2019 levels. We're active in redevelopment and new development. We opened West Midlands Designer Outlet and we started construction in the western Paris suburb for our third outlet in France. The end of the quarter, new development, redevelopment was underway across all our platforms. for our share of $850 million. Our retail investments posted exceptional results. All of our global brands within Spark Group outperformed their budget in the quarter on sales, gross margin, and EBITDA led by Forever 21 and Aeropostale. Spark's newest brand, Eddie Bauer, also outperformed our initial expectations. We're also very pleased with JCPenney results. They continue to outperform their plan. Their liquidity position is growing, now $1.4 billion, and they do not have any outstanding balance on their line of credit. Penny will launch several private national brands later this year, as well as their new beauty initiative. Taubman Realty Group is operating Their 2021 budget at a level above that and above our underwriting. And their portfolio, our portfolio, shows resilience. Sales are quickly returning to pre-pandemic levels. Year-to-date through June, retail sales are 13% higher than the first half of 2019. Balance sheet. As you would expect, we've been very active in the capital markets. We refinanced 13 mortgages in the first half of the year for a total of $2.2 billion. In total, our share of which is $1.3 billion at an average interest rate of 2.9%. Our liquidity is more than $8.8 billion. consisting of $1 billion, consisting of $6.9 billion available on our credit facility, and $1.9 billion of cash, including our share of JV cash. And again, our liquidity is net of $500 million of U.S. commercial paper that's outstanding at quarter end. Dividend, we paid $1.40 per share of dividend in cash on July 23rd for the second quarter. That was a 7.7% increase sequentially and year over year. Today we announced our third quarter dividend of $1.50 per share in cash, which is an increase of 7.1% sequentially and 15.4% year over year. The dividend is payable September 30. You will know that going forward, we are returning to our historical cadence of declaring dividends as we announce our quarterly earnings. Now guidance, given our results for the first half of the year, as well as our view for the remainder of 2021, We are increasing our full year 2021 FFO guidance range from $9.70 to $9.80 per share to $10.70 to $10.80 per share. This is an increase of $1 per share at the midpoint, and the range represents approximately $17. to 19% growth compared to 2020 results. Before we open it up to Q&A, I wanted to provide some additional perspective. First, we expect to generate approximately $4 billion in FFO this year. That will be approximately 25% increase compared to last year, and just 5% below our 2019 number. to be just 5% below 2019, given all that we've endured over the last 15, 16 months, including significant restrictive governmental orders that forced us to shut down, unlike many other establishments, is a testament to our portfolio and a real testament to the Simon team and people. Second, we expect to distribute more than $2 billion In dividends this year, keep in mind we did not suspend our dividend at any point during the pandemic. And in fact, we have now increased our dividend twice already this year. Now, just a point on valuation, and I tend to never really talk about it, but I felt it was appropriate today. Our valuation continues to be well below our historical averages today. when it comes to multiple FFO multiples compared to other retail REITs, retailers, and the S&P 500. And our dividend yield is higher than the S&P 500 by more than 250 basis points, Treasuries by 325 basis points, and the REIT industry by 150 basis points. And as I mentioned to you, our dividend is growing. Our company has a diverse product offering that possesses many many multiple drivers of earnings growth, creative capital investment opportunities, and the balance sheet to support our growth. We are increasing our performance, profitability, cash flow, and return to our shareholders, and we're ready for questions.
spk09: Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star 1 on your touchtone telephone. To withdraw your question, press the pound keys. Our first question comes from the line of Steve Sacqua of Evercore ISI. Your line is open.
spk11: Thanks. Good afternoon, David. I guess I wanted to just start on the occupancy trend, which was up pretty nicely from 1Q to 2Q. And you talked about the leasing activity that you had in the quarter and the pipeline. Could you just maybe share with us what your expectations are for occupancy by the end of this year and what's sort of embedded in the guidance?
spk14: Well, you know, the guidance is affected by the continuing uptrend. We expect our occupancy by year end to increase from the levels that we have right now. I don't have a number that I'm going to give to you specifically, but as I mentioned to you, Steve, you know, in talking to my heads of leasing, I mean, we are, maybe this is an overstatement, we're tickled pink by, you know, the demand by the new retailers and tenants that are surfacing, you know, the many, many opportunities that we have with restaurants, with mixed-use developments. You know, and I mentioned to you our deal committee had more deals than it's had in a few years. So, look, we still have a hole to dig out of, you know, because of the bankruptcies that we had to confront with the pandemic. But I'm very pleased with the activity, the mojo that we have in leasing, you know, The work that our personnel are doing there, the creativity, it's pretty encouraging.
spk11: Okay, and maybe just as a follow-up, just on the leasing commentary, I know that you guys had to make some accommodations to the retailers, and you lowered the base rent and took more percentage rent. Given that sales seem to be coming back very quickly, Do you sense that that dynamic is changing at all as you're having these current discussions about future leasing, or do you still anticipate having to have kind of lower base and take more upside going forward?
spk14: Look, it's tenant by tenant. The strategy we adopted in the height of the pandemic is playing out better than we could have expected. We made the right move. We got the renewals done. We accommodated the vast majority of retailers, assuming they were reasonable in their approach. We got the job done. We kept our properties functioning. We bet on the rebound, and we're seeing the benefits of that. As I look back, I'm not certain I would change a lot. And the reality is there's always going to be a few, a handful of situations where we'll bet on the come, bet on retailers, because we have confidence in our properties. We have confidence in the retailers that we're doing business with. And I think physical retail... You know, when I listen to the pundits and they're throwing the baby out with the bathwater, read my lips. Physical retail is here to stay, and people really like to shop in the physical world. So, you know, don't believe everything you hear on TV. We've got the evidence.
spk11: That's it for me. Thanks. Thank you.
spk09: Thank you. Our next question comes from Alexander Goldfarb of Piper Sandler. Please go ahead.
spk17: Hey, good afternoon, David, and hope I guess you guys have had a really good, not I guess, you guys have had a really good quarter. Just amazing to see guidance up by a buck. But continuing on Steve's question there, You know, amazing on the dividend rebound, amazing on the guidance, on the leasing activity you guys talked about, and everything is good. But, you know, when you think about people pulling out the negative, and believe it or not, David, people do look at some things in negative limelight. They'll see negative 22% releasing spreads, and that negative spread is widening. You know, I understand that you did deals to get the company through, makes sense. But, you know, from an expectation standpoint, What would you think the cadence is over the next few quarters of this spread? And how do we sort of relate to that versus the cash flow growth and everything else that's going on? Because clearly there's a disconnect between your cash flow recovery and this negative spread metric.
spk14: Yeah, look, I, you know, Alex, stats don't mean as much to me as they do to you because I look at cash flow growth. because there's a lot that goes into cash flow growth, a lot more than spreads. Now, the sole reason that the spread is down to 22% is because of mix and the COVID deals that we did. The mix is that we, you know, the spread probably was higher than... because we had a lot of boxes that rolled out that were low rents. And so we got the benefit of that. And those are out of our 12-month numbers. And now kind of the new leasing that we're doing is in it. And that's the sole thing. So I would encourage our investors that know what we're all about to – understand that it's a mix. If I do a deal with Dick's or an entertainment box and they pay $15 a foot, but the expiration of that box was 15 months ago with $3 a foot, I still may have made a $15 spread, but because it was in our rollout 15 months ago, you don't see it. It's not space by space. If I did space by space, the trend would not be, the percentage would not be anywhere near that. So do you understand what I just explained? Remember, we had a lot of boxes that were pre-COVID at low rents, but we didn't do box leasing for the last 12, 14 months because of the pandemic. So that's the sole reason. You follow what I'm saying? Right, Alex?
spk17: Yeah, I do, I do. I wasn't about to volunteer Tom's rehash for a space-by-space, but I do understand what you're saying.
spk14: This is not a space-by-space, but the reality is if I had boxes that were that space that I got back that was at low numbers, but they were 15 months ago, those closings is gone. So that really jerks up the number. And then I have the new lease that's at a low number that jerks it down. But if you really compare it over a longer period of time, we've got a positive spread. Follow me?
spk17: Yeah, it makes total sense. The next topic, David, obviously arises.
spk14: It should make more than sense. It's the math.
spk17: No, I can see the math as evident in the earnings growth, the cash flow growth. You've explained it well so that when understanding this, That explanation that it's not based on space by space makes it crystal clear what's going on. The next question is on the rising of COVID, Delta, whatever other variants are out there, obviously, fact of life, but you're seeing tremendous leasing demand, restaurant demand, et cetera. Your malls and outlets are throughout the country. Is it your view and what your mall managers are saying and tenants are saying is that Most people just accept COVID is part of life and therefore it doesn't interfere with their shopping or their restaurants or their activity. Or is there a concern that people may start to pull back from some of the, you know, the increasing activity that we've seen this year?
spk14: Well, it's, um, it's a very good question. I'm only going to give you my personal opinion, which, um, which could be wrong, but it's an opinion, so I guess technically it shouldn't be wrong. But I would say this. I think the most important, this is factual, and I actually checked it. So as you know, there are Delta hotspots. We actually have malls in some of these hotspots. So the land of the Ozarks is in Springfield, Missouri. You only know that through the Netflix show. Right, the Ozarks. Because you haven't been there, but I've been there. And it's a wonderful place. But I checked, you know, have we seen in our battlefield mall, which is in Springfield, Missouri, have we seen an uptick in COVID cases at the mall? And we get the report from all the retailers and our staff. And the reality is we haven't. The mall is safe. Okay, so even though we're starting to see counties talk about indoors, there's no science about the mall. I underline that. We've been mistreated in this whole 18-month ordeal, but it is what it is. I personally think, now going back to your question, and I've checked it, like in Florida where there's some upticks. We have not seen in an enclosed mall an uptick in COVID cases for the people that are in the mall, the staff, whether it's a retailer or management team. Period. End of the story. No question about that. So I personally think that people are just going to deal with Delta. I'm hopeful that people will get vaccinated. We're not going to mandate vaccines. We're going to encourage them. And I think we've got to keep being safe as possible going on with our life. And we need to mask up. We're going to mask up. And I think the consumer and the folks have all just kind of dealt with it and are moving forward in that environment right now. So I'm hopeful that You know, as a country, we don't get into these lockdowns they have produced. I studied Sweden. I studied France. COVID reverts to the mean. Sweden did not lock down. France did. And if you look at the chart on COVID cases, it all reverts to the mean. Lockdown, no lockdown. So let us do our business. Mask up if you need to. The mall is safe. Next question.
spk17: Thank you, David.
spk09: Thank you. Our next question comes from Rich Hill of Morgan Stanley. Your question, please.
spk05: Hey, good afternoon, David. I want to just focus on maybe just some of the numbers and specifically the income from unconsolidated entities. If I'm looking at the numbers right, you had a pretty healthy increase in that line item, which obviously includes Taubman along with the retailers. I think it went to around $348.5 million versus $15 million the last quarter, despite depreciation amortization looking like it's approximately flat year over year. So that suggests to me something pretty healthy is happening in those line items. I was hoping you could maybe just give us a little bit more transparency in what you're seeing there and what's driving that beyond what you said in the prepared remarks.
spk14: Well, I mean, we're always transparent. That'll be in our queue. But the We have our Clay Pierre deferred tax gain running through that. We have our retail investments running through that, are the two major pieces of that increase, and then obviously positive operations in all of our joint venture properties. That's really it. Because we've had this, you know, that runs through that as well, but we also have increased depreciation and amortization associated with it. So that's a kind of a, you know, not overly material in that big increase. Fellas, what else do we want to say? That's it? Okay. Fellas agree with my assessment.
spk05: Thank you. I'm sure I'll follow up offline with Brian and Tom on that. I do want to come back to... My word's not yours, soft guidance on core NOI. I think you've said in the past it was maybe going to be four to five, closer to five, if I'm reading the transcript from last quarter correctly. You obviously just had a really big quarter. How do you feel about that now, and do you see potential for upside from that 5%?
spk14: Yes, we should outperform that.
spk05: Okay. Okay. That's my two questions, so I will get back in the queue. Thanks, David.
spk13: Thank you.
spk09: The next question comes from Michael Bellarmine of Citi. Please go ahead.
spk04: Great. Just two quick ones. Well, one quick one, maybe one a little bit longer. The first one, just on the dollar increase, can you just break that down to just some major buckets? The buck increase, the guidance, about $380 million. I would assume part of it is $0.32 million. the deferred tax liability that you booked this quarter, which leaves another 68 cents unaccounted for. Maybe you can just bucket it into, like, maybe retailer investments, core, and other would be helpful.
spk14: You're right. You're right. 32 cents of that is because of the deferred tax, and then 68 cents plus is from just core plus retail. But we're not going to break out which is which. But the good news is we've got our core beating our initial budget and retail. We're in the same spot.
spk04: Yeah, because your original retailer investment was like 15 to 20 cents. It would appear that you may have blown through that just in this quarter. So that's why I was just trying to get a little bit of a – that one's a lot more volatile, right?
spk14: It's entirely a fair and legitimate question, and, you know, so there's no qualms on that. It's just we don't really – we're not breaking out the beat, you know, or the increase, I should say, other than the 32 cents. which is right, and then the other 68, and I hope it will be plus in that, will be, you know, is retail and core.
spk04: Right.
spk14: I mean, if they're retailer multiples, maybe retail is core. I don't, you know, what's core, what's non-core.
spk04: That's a longer discussion. The second question, David, is... You know, given your perspective now as a, you know, obviously you've been a landlord forever, but you're increasingly now getting your hands dirty at being a retailer. I'm curious what you're seeing from the retailers that you own and sort of dealing with this environment and turning it around relative to what you are as a landlord, right? Because I think you said you're tickled pink. If you're sitting as a retailer, that must be a different description that you would use. So maybe you can talk a little bit about what you're doing on the retailer side to bring people into the assets. What type of promotions are you trying to lure people to, bricks and mortar, and just the whole omni-channel world with the retailers you own. Just trying to understand that relative to your time as a landlord.
spk14: Well, you're right. It's a long... That's a long... If I did that question justice, it would be a long answer. So let me just say this. And this is really important. The retailers that we bought, if we didn't buy them, they would be gone. So I'm most proud. Forget about the numbers and what it's meant for us financially. But we're most proud because we basically kept companies alive that otherwise would be dead, buried, and liquidated. And what we found out is, you know what, if we just focus on the business, focus on cash flow, focus on the consumer, we could stabilize these business, have patient money, patient, not worried about comp from one quarter to the next. we could turn those around. And I'm most proud because, you know, I should know, maybe Brian knows, but, you know, our Spark operations employ, you know, thousands of people. And then when you add Penny, you know, you've got, you know, well over 50, 60,000 people. So don't underestimate, you know, what we've done. I mean, we're not, you know, these were companies that were, you know, frankly, roadkill, and we saved them. And for that, I'm very, very thankful for. So that's one. And then I'd say, Michael, generally, and, you know, I can get into this in more detail. It's just too much to tell you now. I'd say two things. One is the... store is critical. If you talk to the retailers that run these businesses, and in our case in particular, because most of these companies didn't have the capital to invest in the Internet and the Omnichannel, we're making it at the store level. So these are really turned in to be good physical store operators. Now, Eddie Bauer and is more sophisticated on the e-commerce than some of the other ones that we got when we bought them. But the store is a really, really important component that gets, in today's world, it is what it is, gets overlooked. And I'd say we've also had a great partner in ABG that adds a lot to the marketing and know-how about sourcing that was very important to what we have. And then Brookfield has been a terrific partner as well, and they have a lot of value. They're in some deals, they've been converted in others, but they've been like us. What do we do that's right for the business? How do we keep these companies... alive and and prosper level headed, you know, quick decisions, you know, the all the rest of this stuff. So, you know, omni channel clearly is very important to the future. But these companies are basically surviving and prospering because of their physical footprint, not because of e commerce.
spk04: Right. I'd say if I have a vote, I know you probably wouldn't give me a vote, but on the retailer versus core assignment earnings, I do think there's a difference. The market can describe what multiple they want. You have leases and contracts. Retailers, on the other hand, have just a different business model.
spk14: Traditionally, you're right in that, but if you look at where the retailer multiples are compared to ours, you would argue the reverse.
spk04: I said, that's why, that's why I said we want, I don't want to, you know, the market's going to tell us where, but at least having all the details of the components, I think it's just a very helpful pieces of information that the street can then, and then we can get into an argument about how things should be valued, but not having the individual pieces in a clear and concise way. Um, I don't think allows to have that conversation. It becomes a little bit more adversarial.
spk14: Well, we got it. We, we understand, we understand the issue, but, um, You know, at the end of the day, we'll see the level of materiality to it, and we'll see if it makes sense. We've got partners in there as well. But, you know, I don't think, well, the market is the market. I have to respect it. So we hear what you're saying.
spk04: I appreciate the time, David. Have a good one.
spk09: Thank you. Our next question comes from Caitlin Burrows of Goldman Sachs. Your question, please.
spk00: Hi, everyone. I was just wondering maybe if we could talk a little bit about the conversations you're having with retailers. I think in the past and even last quarter, it sounded like there were still retailers that were maybe giving you a hard time about rent payment or rent negotiations. Wondering if you can give an update on how those conversations with the retailers are going and also whether that is impacting the lease termination fees.
spk14: I would say we're really down to you know, a couple of folks and it's really, Caitlin, way, way down. I mean, everybody's lived up to their basically COVID deal. And I would say right now, other than one or two, you know, one or two folks, it's really kind of, you know, business as usual and how do we do business better How do we grow our business? How do we do things more strategically? So I think I'm hopeful that that whole, you know, unfortunate, you know, it was tough for us. It was tough for them. You know, we were all dealing with unprecedented secrets of events. I think it's all behind us. You know, our collection rates are in the, you know, back to normal range. And, yes, we've got two or three folks that are still out there, but, you know, if they stay out there, you know, it is what it is. And, you know, we can't, you know, we're moving forward. So it's all pretty much behind us, you know, assuming, you know, there's no, you know, nothing that we had to deal with like we did, you know, last year. Mm-hmm.
spk00: Got it, okay. And then maybe just a quick one on the other income, both the lease settlement income was up decently in the quarter and also the bucket for other income. So I was just wondering if you could give some detail on the new line item.
spk14: Yeah, I remember lease settlement income was up a few million dollars, not much, maybe a couple cents. And we sold one residential property at a gain of And we also had, which is, you know, we had a significant increase in our Simon Brand Venture business, which is that, you know, probably the bigger grower of that number.
spk13: Yeah, absolutely. Hey, Len, it's Brian. We saw a pretty substantial increase in Simon Brand Venture and our gift card business and some of our kind of mall food operations, which obviously in the second quarter of last year were nonexistent.
spk00: Got it. Okay, thanks.
spk09: Thank you. Our next question comes from Derek Johnston of Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.
spk15: Hi, everybody. Good evening. What do you need to see in order to greenlight additional transformational mixed-use projects, you know, especially the Taubman assets, which we think make a lot of sense? I mean, clearly, Northgate never skipped a beat, and now Phipps Plaza really looks like it's back on track. Maybe I missed it earlier, David, but I recall the office component being temporarily shelved, but what do you need to see to ramp additional transformational-type projects, and is there a laddered development program in place or any material ongoing in process, entitlement requests you can share?
spk14: Sure. You're right about this. We're basically all systems go there. We expect to finish everything by the end of 22, which would be the new Class A office, Nobu Hotel, Lifetime Athletics. So it's all going back. You're right. We did shut it down during COVID. We commenced. We restarted this, I don't know, two, three months ago. You know, we weatherproofed some of the stuff earlier, but we really are finishing the project. So that's That'll be really, you know, I'm really excited about that. So hopefully we'll be able to, you know, show you that and be something really proud of. And I would say we're really kind of, we took a hiatus of 12 months, more or less, Brian, right? 12, 14 months. So we're back at it. I think I mentioned last call, we're probably, you know, In some cases, you know, decreasing the amount of maybe new retail space. But we're back at it, and it's more mixed use than ever. The demand on the mixed use front has been really, really nice to see. And just to name a few that were in the permitting process would be Brea and Orange County. We've got Stone Ridge and... the Northern California area, you know, just to get the permitting process going, restarted. Some of those things we have to kind of start again because the plan's different, but the idea to redevelop, you know, a lot of them are the old, you know, department store boxes that we got back or or that we ended up buying, we're going. The plans may be a little less grandiose, so to speak, but it's very active on that front across the board. Look for more and more of our pipeline to increase as we go through the vetting process. With the Taubman portfolio, you're right, there's a lot to do there. I keep saying they, but we don't have a lot of empty boxes there. So there's not like a plethora of opportunities that you might otherwise think, but there are some. you know, we're working those as well. And, you know, it's great real estate, great location. I think I mentioned last call, I mean, I do think, not that there's really a silver lining in any of this, but I do think our properties, both by the communities and maybe, you know, the general movement there, the suburbs are, you know, are... especially in markets that we're in, are going to be really appreciated, and I think we're going to be the center of activity.
spk15: Okay, great. Thank you. And I guess just my follow-up will be a quick follow-up to this question. Is the 13-story Class A office building – Is Lifetime Cowork and Anchor tenant there? Did you sign them? Or have you pre-leased any of this space that gave you confidence to move ahead? Or are you just moving ahead because you feel better in general?
spk14: Let me be clear. So Lifetime is its own separate building. It's actually built on top of a world-class food hall that we're doing with C3. And inside Lifetime Athletic, they will have their own co-working. The office building is on its own. There's no leaching to Lifetime on that. It's 13 stories. We're building it spec, though we just signed our first 90,000-square-foot lease. So the short answer is yes, we are going.
spk15: Thank you.
spk14: Sure.
spk09: Thank you. Our next question comes from Craig Schmidt of Bank of America. Please go ahead. Thank you.
spk18: You know, looking at the guidance for 2021, you'll have recovered half of the loss from your previous peak on FFO per share. I'm wondering, as you work on to create the income to get you back to the second half, is that going to be harder than the first half? Or could that be easier?
spk14: Just a quarter over quarter. I'm just really I didn't really. I don't think anybody understood your your connections. Not that good correct. So maybe can you restate it please?
spk18: Sorry, can you hear me now?
spk14: Yes.
spk18: OK, your guidance for 2021 already brings you halfway back to your peak FFO per share. Thinking about the second half, is that going to be harder to recover or easier?
spk14: Well, if you go quarter over quarter, I would just say, and I'll let Brian and Adam weigh in, but, you know, we had the brunt of COVID abatements and relief defaults in Q2 and 3, if I remember correctly. So the comparison to Q3 of 21 compared to 20 should be a pretty big gap. By Q4, we had dealt with most of this stuff. So if that's your question, I'm not sure I really maybe comprehend it completely, but if that's your question, I think hopefully that answers it.
spk18: Great. And then just do you foresee any changes in the REIT rules that might allow you to grow your retail and some of your other businesses beyond previous limitations?
spk14: Well, that's hard to know, Craig. I'm hopeful. I mean, there are limitations. You're right, 100% right. There are limitations. And I'm hopeful that the folks that do legislate this stuff will understand the benefit that we've provided to basically working families because we've saved these retailers. So yes, there are rules that make it complicated. They should be less. Remember, our retail investments are in a taxable REIT subsidiary. If you look at our P&L, you'll see a big tax expense, correct, gentlemen? That's associated with the fact that our TRS is taxable and we're paying the corporate tax rate at its full level. So, and then when you look at the, you know, hopefully the benefit of what we've done for these companies that otherwise would, you know, may not exist, frankly, that, you know, the folks that, you know, that write legislation will see that This is really an arcane rule that was around a long time ago, and there's a real benefit to trying to keep retailers and others alive to try and create employment and all the good stuff that they do in the community. So I am hopeful, but there's no certainty on that.
spk18: Understood. Thanks.
spk14: Thank you, Craig.
spk09: Thank you. Our next question comes from Flores Van Discom of Compass Point. Your line is open.
spk02: Thanks for taking my question. David, I have a feeling of sort of deja vu. We've seen this picture before following the great financial crisis. Obviously, things are different, of course, but it seems like we're – We're reliving those, you know, those times a bit. Maybe if you can, my question to you is regarding tenant sales. Again, the key lifeblood to your malls and the key to the, obviously, to the retailer profitability, too. Very encouraged by your statement of retail sales in June equaling, in your portfolio equaling, you know, 19 levels. and up 5% from May. Maybe if you can give some more breakdown in that, particularly as it comes out of the first quarter. And also, did I hear you correct? Did you say that Taubman sales are 13% ahead of 19 levels? Correct, yes. Does that...
spk14: I mean, it's a good number. I mean, you know, look, I do think we all deal force in a, you know, very tough, you know, it's really hard to be, to make any predictions, but I think what it should tell all of us is that, you know, and I said it a little bit earlier, I mean, physical shopping you know, is people like to physically shop, okay? We are, by no stretch of the imagination, hitting on all cylinders. We still have tourist centers that don't have tourists other than domestic. You know, we have parts of the region that were slower to open up, i.e., California, than others. And I just think the most important point is that, you know, people like physical shopping. And, you know, I mean, listen, you hear it all the time, and I'm sure you get, you know, your clients ask you, well, nobody shops physically anymore, and, you know, you try to defend it, or you say, yeah, but what about this, what about that? I think we're just... we're showing that, you know, it matters to the consumer and to these communities, and hopefully that will continue. And it is, I will say this, maybe getting to your question, it is across the board. You know, so it's, yes, it's the luxury retailers, but it's also, you know, Aeropostale, which the AUM is, you know, I won't tell you, I'm not allowed, I don't know if I'm allowed to tell you, but The AUM is lower than what it might be for a luxury retailer, okay? So, you know, it's a Forever 21, you know, which has a low AUM. So, you know, I think that's just encouraging. Hopefully the trend will continue, but I think the consumer, you know, likes the idea that, you know, that they can go to a physical shopping place.
spk02: Great. And if I can follow up, I guess, you talk about the fact that, you know, your lease spreads are not space for space, like for like. I wonder if you had that. And also, what is the impact if you have – if your average sales – get to 19 levels? What's the impact on the effective rent that you would be getting relative to the reported rents that you've talked about?
spk14: Well, I think the easiest way to do that, I mean, it's a complicated number because you've got to go retailer by retailer. We did for the first six months and our estimate of what our base rent would be based upon you know, kind of, you know, we got the benefit. There's $5 more base rent had we not lowered our break points, you know, due to the COVID relief. So, you know, that gives you an indication of kind of, you know, an interesting stat, you know, if that's maybe it's of interest to you. So... You know, I don't... So I can't really give you a number off the top of my head. It would just be a guess, and I really don't want to do that on, you know, what it might be. And then, again, on the spreads, it's not face-by-space. A lot of people, you know, and I know the burden's on you and the analytic community, but I really encourage you You know, very few people do it the way we do it. Most people do it space by space. Some people also include their estimate of, you know, if they have a base rent of X and they think they're going to be in percent rent, they include that in their spreads. You know, we just, it's all in and all out, mixed matters because of these boxes I explained to you. And you know what? It'll manifest itself in the cash flow. And, you know, the big cash flow growth story that we have going forward is sales growth and occupancy growth and SBV growth, getting that back to normal. That's the big story. And then, you know, So the spreads, you know, the spreads, you know, I could do a bunch of boxes. The spreads could look not as good as you have looked historically, but the reality is my cash flow went up because that was vacant space and it's already out of the spread calculation. So focus on cash flow growth is the bottom line.
spk02: Thanks, David. Appreciate it.
spk09: Thank you. Our next question comes from Mike Mueller of JP Morgan. Your line is open.
spk07: Hi. So Q2 looks like it was about 292 without the reversal. And if you look at the 1075 guidance, it implies about a 250 a quarter average for the balance of the year. What was the level of income that won't recur in the back? No, sorry. What was the level of income in 2Q that won't recur going forward?
spk14: I'm not sure.
spk13: Say that one more time, Michael. Can you go through that question again, please?
spk14: Yeah. Let me say it this way. The only thing that's not going to recur is the pay-per-deferred tax game. I mean, again, I can't tell you exactly what retail sales are going to be, retailer sales. I can't tell you what our retail investments are going to be. Um, so there's, but the only thing that's kind of non-recurring, we will always have certain non-recurring things every year, lease settlement, income sale of a income producing property. You know, these things always kind of ebb and flow, but the only thing that is not going to, uh, uh, recur is the deferred tax. That's a one-time gain clearly articulated in our press release of 32 cents.
spk07: um what about prior period collections were there any in there that were significant no they wouldn't they wouldn't come through the p l uh either you know no recovery michael yeah got it okay thank you thanks thank you our next question comes from vince taboni of green street your line is open hi good afternoon um
spk08: So it seems clear that variable rent is growing in the portfolio. Could you help frame how much this is shifting? For the leases you're negotiating today, what is the split between contractual rent and the expected variable rent component? And how is that different from before the pandemic?
spk14: Well, look, I think the answer is, The simple way to say this is that if we are willing to bet in some cases on the prospect of our property and our retailer, and to the extent that they are cautious because of what they had to deal with as well, we're willing to accept the lower base rent in some cases if we get an artificial upside in other cases. And it's not anywhere near the majority. It's only dealing with certain cases, certain lease rollovers. And again, those lease rollovers happen, you know, let's say on average, you know, we have 12%. a year that rolls over. Now last year we had more only because we dealt with bankruptcies, which in theory, um, you know, when you're in a bankruptcy, all of your leases roll over cause you have the right to reject leases. So we did a little bit more last year with some of the brands that went through bankruptcy, you know, because it was in the height of the pandemic. and they were cautious with their plan, but we made artificially low break points to make some of the income back up at their sales hit. I would say going forward, we're pretty much back to the normal way to do it, which is trying to get the appropriate base rent and a natural break over that to generate percentage rent. And I will say this. We are still really important. We're still not... We used to have big, big overage rent numbers from our outlet portfolio because of the foreign tourism. We're still not seeing that. Obviously, tourism dropped during the last couple of years pre-pandemic, strong dollar, relationships with countries, et cetera. I won't go through all that stuff. Then we had the pandemic and the restriction. So one of the unique things that I think and I hope, not knowing Delta or anything else, how it's all going to play out, but at some point in the not-too-distant future, You know, we're going to see really good growth in our high-quality tourism centers that, you know, that should manifest itself in additional percentage rent. We have yet to see that, you know, for, you know, primarily our outlet, but also, you know, our Vegas properties as well, you know, where, you know, like our forum shops.
spk08: Yep. No, thank you. That's really helpful color. I mean, it sounds like the lease structure is more temporary versus a secular shift towards more available rent. So I appreciate the color there. One more for me, maybe just shifting gears. I mean, you were fairly active in the mortgage market in recent months. Just was hoping you could provide, you know, some color on the recent trends there and just, you know, ability for both you and, you know, others in the industry to get, you know, non-recourse financing on high quality malls today.
spk14: I'd say it's significantly improved, but not easy. But not easy. Not a day at the beach. Retail is still, look, I think a quarter like this, a couple of other quarters, pandemic in the rear view mirror, I expect it to get back to normal. but it's still not, you know, that market is still difficult. The unique thing about us is, you know, we have the unsecured market for us and, you know, we don't necessarily need the mortgage market. Sponsorship is really, really important, but it's dramatically improved, but it's not, you know, it's not where it needs to be, where it should be, and where it has been.
spk08: Yeah, that makes sense. If you had to draw maybe a line in the sand for sales per square foot or quality in terms of being able to get debt, is there anything you're willing to throw out there?
spk14: You know, look, I think we've done, like the Pentagon cities of the world, we've done those in a really good, solid mall in a you know, not sexy town, you know, is tougher, and it shouldn't be because the stability of that cash flow is, frankly, pretty good under our management and ownership. So, you know, but, you know, often, you know, sexy, like we did domain, you know, we had an old real estate parlance. We overfinanced it. You know, the Pentagon cities of the world are fine. But, you know, if you have a traditional mall in a smaller market, even though it's really good, really solid, really stable, still is more difficult than it should be, in my opinion.
spk08: Interesting. Well, thank you for the time.
spk13: Sure.
spk09: Thank you. Our next question comes from Kim of Truist. Your line is open.
spk16: Thanks. Good afternoon. Can you talk about the retailer investments, the $195 million of NOI? I would have thought you would have gotten that type of level of income towards the fourth quarter, just given the seasonality that's inherent in retail. I'm just trying to think about that compared to your previous guidance of $260 million of EBITDA and should we expect a similarly strong quarter in the fourth quarter or is there something unique that happened this time around?
spk14: Well, again, remember this is all, so you're 100% right in that like traditional retailers, a lot of it's back-end weighted. So we budget the same way. So we, you know, way outperformed our first six months uh... hard to know exactly what it will be the next six months uh... but we budget we budget the ramp up to uh... convince so you know that what will you know we'll see whether we're on budget above budget below budget i mean it's but we we budget that ramp up as well okay so there wasn't anything unique to this quarter that there was a one time item or anything like that uh... other than dramatic outperformance. That was what's unique about it.
spk16: All right. What are your latest thoughts on acquisitions? It's a bit asked out there how that compares to your internal hurdles. Just any kind of color you can share on that.
spk14: Well, there's no action. We've got You know, I mean, I don't know if I should say this publicly, but it's a little late now. I mean, we're really not looking at anything that I know of. There's really no action. So it's really hard for me to, you know, to comment on it because there's just not much happening.
spk16: Okay. Thank you.
spk14: Sure.
spk09: Thank you. Our next question comes from Linda Tsai of Jeffrey. So your line is open.
spk01: Hi, with the pandemic driving more buy online and pick up in store, how do you think retailers are considering their occupancy cost ratios? And is this a similar approach to the way the retailers you've invested in also approach occupancy cost ratios?
spk14: Well, I mean, that's like there's no standard answer other than to say, You know, we are, if they buy online and pick up in store, that sale goes through our, you know, in our leases. That sale goes into our sales calculation. So it's not like it's excluded. So that's going to be part of our occupancy cost discussion.
spk01: Got it. And then any sense of how the comps have trended for your retailer investments, you know, the past couple months as maybe it relates to 2019 levels?
spk14: How our retail investments did the 19?
spk01: Yeah, like same story style.
spk14: Yeah, I would say generally above 19, except for JCPenney. because they really were not in bankruptcy in 19, so we're still having the bankruptcy, you know, they went into bankruptcy in 2020, early 2020. So they had a lot less unaffected year, so we're still below 19 levels, but the rest of them are above 19 levels pretty handsomely.
spk01: Thanks.
spk14: Sure.
spk09: Thank you. Our next question comes from Handel St. Just of Missoula. Your line is open.
spk19: Hey, good evening out there. We're out here. So I wanted to come back to leasing for a second. Clearly, the industry has gone through some changes here over the last year, a few more shorter-term deals being done, percentage rent deals are a bit more prevalent. I guess I'm curious, as you look at the U.S. small business here over the next year or two, and more especially in that period from 23 to 25, I'm thinking about how do you assess the likelihood that leases perhaps don't necessarily go back to being long-term with fixed-rate contractual rent bumps, or maybe they become more like in Asia, where there are more percentage rent, and perhaps the leases are shorter in nature. And so I guess I'm curious, seeing what you're seeing, the tone of the conversations, what your thoughts are on there, and maybe some color on the average change in lease term here being signed in the portfolio the last couple months.
spk14: Yeah, the term hasn't changed, you know, all that significantly. Look, I would say that I don't think there's a – you know, a big fundamental shift. When you tend to go short-term, it's because you can't agree on what you think the fair market value is, and so, you know, you kind of do a short-term deal, and again, there's some cautiousness from the retail community because of the pandemic. But I think assuming we get over this, I think we're going to see long-term deals. We also use short-term deals to our advantage because one is we may be testing out a new concept. One is we don't like the rent that the retailer is offering, so let's keep that retailer in there while we go find a better long-term tenant. You know, there's a redevelopment. We want to move people around. There's all sorts of strategic reasons to do short-term leasing, but I think that the simple, straightforward answer is I don't think that the fundamental nature of our business has changed in terms of long-term leases. Listen, the retailers... If they're investing in the store, the better retailers want long-term leases because they want the store to look good. They want their personnel to be there. They don't want to go through different personnel. Personnel at the store levels know when leases are short and when leases are long. They're more committed to that company. They're as motivated in many, many cases as we are to have long-term leases. I really don't think other than because of the nature of the pandemic that short-term leases are de facto the new industry. I just don't see it. No retailer is going to invest in a store without long-term leases. And all the better retailers all want a good physical plant, all want to put in their omnichannel capabilities, and they're not going to do that on the short-term lease.
spk19: I got you, and I appreciate those comments. I was just trying to understand that if there's any concern on your part by perhaps the lease expiration schedule that's building up here over the next couple of years with some of the shorter-term leases that have been signed in the last year or two, adding on top of the normal lease expiration schedule, especially in that 2023 to 2025 period, in which you'll be anniversary against, I think, some tougher comps from Lisa's side seven to 10 years ago.
spk14: I think, again, because of the quality of our portfolio, I'm not concerned about that. The reality is we may be negotiating from a position of better position because Our properties look great. Sales are great. A lot of the physical retail has dissipated in the markets where the action is. We've made those bets all the time that we're going to bet on the future. And if we can't make a long-term deal, we make it short because we're betting on the future. And, you know, we've been right more than we've been wrong in those bets, but we're not always right. But that's the judgment that we have to make, and we make it reasonably well, in my opinion.
spk19: Okay. Fair enough. And a follow-up, if I could, on the leasing spreads, understanding that that's been impacted by some of the The leases you're doing with the lower percentage rent thresholds, I guess I'm curious.
spk14: It's a little bit of that, but it's primarily the mix, as I've stated. And again, it's not space by space.
spk19: Understood. I was just curious if you were able to provide a figure net of these newer leases that have been done here with the lower percentage rent thresholds.
spk14: You know, I mean, we could... We could, let me just say this, we could paint an unbelievably good picture there, but we just put all the stuff in and the number is the number. So if we went space by space, if we did it over a certain period of time, if we, you know, there's all sorts of ways you could create the number we would want you to focus on, but it's just a number to us. It's not what's driving our business. Okay. All right, thank you. Thank you.
spk09: Thank you. Our next question comes from Greg McGinnis of Scotiabank. Your line is open.
spk06: Hey, David, IT. I think one of the key concerns for investors today is the potential longer-term drag from lower-quality assets, maybe at least not if they're remain primarily retail. How are you thinking about investing or maybe not investing in the different quality bands within your portfolio to extract the most long-term value from those assets?
spk14: Really not much of an issue for us. It's a de minimis number. And, you know, it's like any other company. You know, if you have a profitable business, maybe you don't invest in it. If you don't think the growth is there and you milk the cash flow. But if investors are concerned about that, my initial reaction is we should do a better job of explaining the quality of our portfolio and the depth and breadth of our business. We'd encourage you to have them call us. We'd be more than happy to walk through the portfolio, answer any questions that they have on it, but I don't think after that they would come away with that being a real concern. If that does happen, it's on the margin. Three cents, five cents, something like that. Anybody that's concerned about that, please call me, Brian, Tom, or you can set it up, and we'll walk them through the asset base.
spk06: All right, appreciate that. Could you possibly touch on maybe how the operating performance differs between the higher end and the lower end? You used to give those NOI-weighted numbers, which were helpful, but I'm just curious how that performance is going today.
spk14: I have them, they're pretty, I have them somewhere old. Yeah, let's see. Basically, occupancy in the EBITDA weighted is, yeah, 93.2 to 91.8, okay? And average base minimum rent is higher, obviously, but the spread's about the same and the total rent's about the same. And sales are rolling 12 or, you know, pretty consistent on a percent basis. But the rolling 12, and you can't, Remember, rolling 12, we have three months of downtime, so it's kind of irrelevant. But the most important number is occupancy, and it's a little bit better.
spk06: Okay. So I guess really what I'm trying to understand, and I think what others are trying to understand, is whether or not there's any need for a higher level of dispositions post-pandemic or maybe just as the retail market evolves, right? How the portfolio is going to evolve.
spk14: You know, we've got, we've always been selling, we just sold the residential thing at like a below sub four cap rate. You know, there are a couple of retail properties that we've earmarked for sale. Market's not quite there. We'll see what happens. Thank you. All right. Thanks.
spk09: Thank you. Our next question comes from Juan Sanabria of BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
spk03: Hi. Just wanted to hit on the guidance question again. It seems like you guys have outperformed expectations on the retail side on your investments, but the guidance implies that these sell kind of X to one time from Cleppier. Should we just think of that as just conservatism built in for the second half? given the volatility on the retail side, or is there another reason for the sequential implied decline in the back half from a clean second quarter run rate number?
spk14: Well, look, I think all I can tell you is that we've beaten our first quarter, our second quarter. We hope to beat third, and we hope to beat the fourth, but we're in the midst of the third, and we're in the midst of the fourth, and we'll see how it how it, you know, how it shakes out. But, you know, we feel, as I mentioned to you earlier, you know, we feel pretty good as to where we're positioned.
spk03: Just my follow-up is just in terms of mall operating hours. Are those back to pre-pandemic levels?
spk14: And if not... Yeah, that's a good question. They're inching back toward it more or less. We may be an hour short on, excuse me, we may be an hour short on, you know, like Monday through Wednesday, but basically Thursday, Friday, Saturday, we're pretty much back to normal.
spk03: And is that just a lack of availability of labor issue or is it something else at this point?
spk14: No, it's, it's pretty back to normal. I think that, you know, in some cases, the retailers liked it, like it, it's something we're always monitoring. And it's, you know, there is, it's a very interesting subject, because some retailers love it somewhat more hours to go back. It gives me a headache when I think about all the different opinions, but It's pretty much back to normal, maybe an hour short in the early part of the week. Thank you. But it's something, the important point, it's something we monitor and manage daily, weekly, in significant consultation with our retailers. And it has increased materially since the early days of reopening. Understood. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
spk09: At this time, I would like to turn the call over to David Simon for closing remarks. Sir?
spk14: All right. Thank you. Have a great rest of your summer, and we'll talk soon. Thank you.
spk09: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.
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