Simon Property Group, Inc.

conference call. At this time all participants are in a listen-only mode. A question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. If anyone's require operator assistance please press star zero on your telephone keypad. As a reminder this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce Tom Ward, Senior Vice President Investor Relations.

Thank you Joe and thank you for joining us this evening. Presenting on today's call are David Simon, chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President and Brian McDade, Chief Financial Officer. A quick reminder that statements made during this call may be forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Safe Harbor of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act 1995 and actual results may differ materially due to a variety of risks, uncertainties and other factors. We refer you to today's press release and our SEC filings for a detailed discussion of the risk factors related to those forward-looking statements. Please note that

this call includes information that may be accurate only as of today's date. Reconciliation of non-GAAP financial measures the most directly comparable GAAP measures are included in the press

release

and

the supplemental information in today's form 8k filing. Both the press release and the supplemental information are available on our IR website at .signals.com. Our For those who would like to participate in the question and answer session, we ask that you please respect our request to limit

yourself to one question. I'm pleased to introduce David Simon.

Thank you Tom. Good evening everyone. We're off to a good start for 2025 with results that exceeded our plan. We completed the acquisition of the Mall Luxury outlets in Florence and San Remo, Italy and opened our first outlet in Jakarta, Indonesia. We continue to enhance our retail real estate platform through development, redevelopment and acquisitions. Our A-rated fortress balance sheet with over 10 billion in liquidity sets us apart and we have the lengthy track record of adapting our capital allocation and operating strategy to confront and take advantage of diverse macroeconomic cycles. Now I'm going to turn it over to Brian who will cover our first quarter results and we'll take it from there.

Thank you David and good evening. Real estate FFO was $2.95 per share in the first quarter

compared to $2.91 in the prior year. Domestic and international operations had a very good quarter and contributed 14 cents of growth driven by a 5%

increase in this income. As anticipated, interest income, land sales and lease settlements were 10 cents lower year over year. We signed 1,300 leases for more than 5.1 million square feet in the quarter. Approximately 25% of leasing activity for the quarter

were new deals and approximately 80% of the leases expiring through 2025 are complete ahead of last year at this point in time. Malls and premium outlet occupancy at the end of the quarter was .9% an increase of 40 basis points compared to the prior year. The mills occupancy was 98.4%, an increase of 70 basis points compared to the prior year. Average base minimum rents for the malls and outlets increased .4% year over year and the mills increased 3.9%. Mall and premium outlet retailer sales per square foot was $7.33

per foot for the quarter. Occupancy costs at the end of the quarter was 13.1%, driving domestic NOI which increased .4% year over year for the quarter

and portfolio NOI which includes our international properties at constant currency through .6% for the quarter.

First quarter funds from operation were $1.0 billion or $2.67 per share compared to

$1.33 billion or $3.56 per share last year. As a reminder, the prior year results include $0.81 per share in after-tax net gains primarily from the sales of the company's remaining ownership interest in AVG.

First

quarter results include a $0.17 per share loss primarily from the non-cash unrealized -to-market and fair value adjustments on the clay-pair exchangeable bonds. This is offset by a $0.07 gain on the derivatives. The non-cash loss on the derivatives is due to the out-performance of clay-pair stock price which increased 11% in the first quarter. The first quarter also includes an after-tax loss of $0.05 per share related to catalyst-bred structure costs. Turning to our development activity, at the end of the quarter, development projects were underway across all platforms with our $944 million to a blended yield of 9%. Approximately 40% of net costs are mixed-use projects. We expect to begin construction on additional projects in the coming months, including a residential development at Braya Mall and new retail dining

and outdoor spaces at the shops at Mission Viejo, both in Orange County, California, as well as the redevelopment of a former department store at the Fashion Mall

at Keystone in Indianapolis, into dynamic mixed-uses. Starts for this year will be approximately $500 million. Turning to the balance sheet, we were active in the first quarter where we completed 12 secured loan transactions tolling approximately $2.6 billion. The weighted average interest rate on these loans was 5.73%. At the end of the quarter, we had net to EBITDA of 5.2 times and our fixed charge-covering ratio was incredibly strong at 4.6 times.

And as David mentioned earlier, we are well positioned to allocate capital and the opportunistic to various economic cycles.

Turning to the dividends, today we announced our dividend of $2.10 per share for the second quarter, a -over-year increase of 10 cents or 5%. The dividend is playable on June 30th. Turning to guidance for 25, we are reaffirming our full year 2025 real estate FFO guidance range of $12.40

to $12

.65 per share. As we stated in February, when issuing our initial full year 2025 guidance, our range reflects real estate FFO and

does not include OPI. We expect the results to trend towards the middle of the range given the current macroeconomic and tariff uncertainties potentially impacting retailer sales. With that, thank you

to everyone. David and I are available for your questions.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad and the confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star 2 if you would like to remove your question from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star 2s. And the first question comes from the line of Steve Sackwa with Epicora ISI. Please proceed.

Yeah, thanks. Good evening. David and Brian, I guess I know the tariff situation has certainly been deescalated, but I'm just curious what sort of conversations you are maybe having with retailers kind of leading up to today's announcement and, you know, how do you think it impacts, if at all, the leasing? And I guess, Brian, you sort of talked about sales, but I guess what are you baking in for sales today maybe versus three months ago?

Yeah, I see. So I'll, let me, let me take that and Brian can add color. So, you know, it had, it just on the new leasing, you know, when we ask obviously every week to the leasing team, but it's only affected four deals, you know, that I am aware of from one European retailer because they, you know, were worried about the import cost bringing over goods from Europe. And, you know, it wasn't big deals, but that's the only one. Other than that, at this point, it hasn't really affected any demand. And, you know, we're hopeful that it won't because, as you know, retailers are looking in the long term on these stores and, you know, at some point we're all hopeful that this stabilizes. Projecting and predicting sales is really difficult because to the extent that there is a retailer that imports goods from China, even with today's kind of reduction in, you know, the kind of tit for cat, you know, you're still talking about 30% tariff, which is material. And at this point, many retailers are either holding off bringing into goods from China, which could affect their inventory levels, trying to source it elsewhere, which they may or may not be successful with. And so it's a relatively big unknown to the extent that there's a reliance on China, even on today's recent news. And, you know, given margins, those tariffs in the 30-ish percent, you know, are, you know, I think are going to give retailers pause whether or not they can afford to have good ship to them from China. You know, to the extent that it is, you know, in the more flat 10%, you know, I think it's really retailer dependent. I think they're going to probably operate business as usual. They'll, I think they'll try to pass a little bit on to the consumer. They'll try to get the manufacturer to take some of it. And they may eat some of it as well. But it shouldn't affect, you know, how they operate and how they, you know, how they inventory their stores. But China still is a big unknown. And so that's why, you know, as Brian said in his comments, look, you know, our sales were relatively flat. If we were relatively flat, as you know, we have a history of, you know, certainly beating the midpoint and always trying to achieve the upper end and even higher. It's impossible for us to say what sales are right now just because we don't know, you know, inventories. I mean, I think we're going to obviously land within our original guidance, which is good given all the uncertainty, but we're thinking that inventory levels could be affected because of the China tariffs, even with these reduced ones as I went through. And so I think it has the potential to affect sales. And that's why we're being a little more conservative and we're thinking it's probably going to be more in the midpoint, you know, one quarter-ish into a very, you know, a very uncertain volatile thing. But I'd also say to you the good news is other than this one anecdote on, you know, some small deals from one European retailer, you know, demand is still strong and we haven't seen, you know, across the board by any stretch of the imagination a reduction in leasing demand. And so that in a nutshell is the latest and greatest. I'm sure if you ask us in a couple of weeks, you know, we might have something new, but, you know, you've got retailers that are scrambling. Now remember, you know, the way this thing works is that for retailers, you know, the U.S. retailers pay the tariffs. So they can't get the goods on the boat unless they pay the tariffs at the time it's delivered to the boat. So, you know, that's why you're probably seeing a lot of boats not make the journey over or a lot of inventory at the shores in China. And so it's, you know, it's an unusual situation that we're just going to have to, you know, see how it shakes out. Now we're obviously pleased to see that at least, you know, the relationship, relationships seem to be thawing and seem to be on a more constructive path. But, you know, how it all shakes out, I mean, our guess is as good as yours or your

economist or anybody else. Thank you. That's it for me. Thank you, Steve.

The next question comes from the line of Craig Mailman with Citi. Please proceed.

Hey, good afternoon. Just as a follow-up to David, that was really helpful for providing your thoughts. I'm just interested in where you think kind of retailers stand from an inventory perspective in terms of when they do start to run out to the extent shipments from China don't kind of reaccelerate here following the thawing. And, you know, have you seen that kind of pull forward of demand in your traffic data here in April and May as consumers kind of pulled forward to get ahead of the tariffs? Just kind of curious how you think that plays out for just the cadence of retail sales this year. And, you know, do you feel like you're getting a market share boost from the loss of that kind of avenue for retail, for customers to some extent?

Yeah, all right. So let me take it in because only because I can remember it this way, I hope. Tom took notes. But the Minimus is great for, you know, American-based companies. The Minimus really hurt, you know, a number of retailers that obviously paid, you know, paid tariffs and weren't able to avoid that loophole. So, and obviously a couple of Chinese companies, you know, took real advantage of it. So that is a great outcome. I want to applaud the administration for dealing with this loophole. Hopefully it continues. And I think that's going to, you know, be a material benefit to our retailers to defend themselves against Chinese retailers that ship directly to the consumer. Okay? So that was really, really important. Now, you know, with respect to Forever 21, I wish they had done it a couple years ago because it would have leveled the playing field. But, you know, it is what it is. Your second question, or maybe it was your first, I would say that the, we don't see in our, what our retailers sell, all that, you know, pull forward that's been talked about. So I think what you have to look at in the first, you know, through basically April now, you know, we'll get April sales shortly. But because, you know, we're in a little bit of a hurry, we're in a little bit of a hurry, we're in a little bit of a hurry, we're in a little bit of a hurry. So I think that's why we're seeing a lot of years on that from our retailers. But I'll give you a general thing. First of all, two or three years of the Outdoor Outlet Centers for us in February. The weather was historically bad compared to 24. And traffic through the quarter was, I would say, down slightly. But when you look at year to date through April, it's actually up year to date because now we've taken into account. So, you know, traffic is holding up. The malls are actually performing above and the outlets are relatively flat. And I would say what we're seeing in the outlet on a traffic point of view is we have assets on the board, whether it's Mexico or Canada. And obviously there's been a slowdown in traffic and sales on some of our border, great long term assets, but currently, you know, with all the rhetoric, we're seeing some traffic diminution on some of the border assets, you know, with Canada and our Mexican customers. So hopefully as that rhetoric dies down, we'll get back to normal. On what, and I think your first question, what retailers basically have, the way I understand it, which is not perfect and every retailer is different. I would say they have probably another month or so, maybe longer, to decide what they're going to do with respect to China for Q4 inventory. So, and I've seen a number of retailers have already reduced their exposure to China dramatically. And so as I said earlier, those retailers are more or less taking a 10%, told you kind of how they're thinking about it, but you know, it's business as usual. To the extent it's China, they're either trying to replicate the goods elsewhere. If they can't, they're, I think, holding off on making a China decision. And I think they probably, you know, this is squishy, but they probably have a month-ish to when, you know, if they still are in a holding pattern, whether to pull the trigger or not, it could affect inventory levels in Q4. But I think that's so retail idiosyncratic, it's hard for me to make that blanket statement. And then obviously, I think the European retailers have much better control over their production, and I don't see any change coming, you know, from them. I think their approach will be more on how they're going to price their goods to the ultimate end consumer. I hope that's helpful. I think I cover all three.

The next question comes from the line of Samir Khanaw with Bank of America. Please proceed.

Good afternoon, everybody. David, I guess, given the uncertainty out there and kind of what you said, retailers scrambling to make sort of long-term decisions, has your approach changed in kind of how you're dealing with your tenants, whether, you know, when you're negotiating leases, whether it's, you know, on new deals, whether it's pricing or TIs? I mean, how are you approaching the situation sort of here, given the uncertainty out there for tenants to make long-term decisions? Thanks.

Like I said, the only anecdotal thing is one retailer backing out of four outlet deals, you know, but that's not a big deal to us because they were replacement tenants that we were, you know, that we already have leased. Honestly, as I said earlier, you know, it's business as usual. So, you know, supply is still very much constrained, demand is still strong, and the reliance, as I said earlier, from China is much reduced. So right now, you know, I can't guarantee it, but right now it's business as usual. I don't think we're doing really anything out of the ordinary in dealing with them. Obviously, you know, to the extent they have a specific issue, we'll try to address it, but, you know, they have come a long way on their supply chain and been reducing the Chinese imports for a long time. I do worry a little bit about, you know, not the bigger ones. Again, we haven't seen, you know, I think the bigger retailers have, you know, sophisticated supply chains and long-term relationships with suppliers everywhere. I do think, you know, the main thing is that we all need, you know, the country, retailers, local moms and pops, we all need as a country to be focused on. I think they could have more, again, we haven't seen it, but, you know, if I had to venture, you know, if things don't stabilize, which, you know, today's a good step, but if they don't ultimately stabilize, I think you'll have potential pressure points on the local mom and pop retailers that are important to the, you know, Hopefully, I'm not anticipating, you know, we're not seeing a problem, but I do worry about that a little bit more than, you know, say, you know, XYZ that has 100 stores.

Thank you, David.

Sure. The next question comes from the line of Michael Goldsmith with UBS. Please proceed.

Good afternoon. Thanks for advocating my question. Can you talk about the back-leasing of those Forever 21 boxes? What types of tenants are you seeing interest in taking to space? Those tend to be bigger boxes, so do you need to break them up, and how quickly can you get red-pain tenants in?

Yeah, I'll, look, I think the demand has been really good. We've got basically over half of them leased. With that, those economics, we've already replaced the rent, and Forever 21, you know, was paying us, so, you know, and I think it's a combination of, you know, we're doing a lot of business with Primark, you know, Zara's of the world. They're in some cases splitting it up, and, you know, and we're very focused on it, but we will more than double at the end of the day, and it'll take a couple of years, but, you know, all in to lease basically 100 stores. But we'll more than double the rent, you know, at the end of the two-year process. Brian, you agree with that? Yes, no, absolutely. We've got about 50 of them addressed. We think those 50, about half of those are commencement of rent this year, the other half next year, with the balance kind of finishing out as we complete our leasing efforts, Michael.

But to David's point, we do think rents are going to at least double. Thank you very much. Good luck in the second quarter.

Thank you. Thank you, Michael.

The next question comes from the line of Alexander Goldfarb with Piper Sandler. Please proceed.

Hey, good afternoon out there, and David, I appreciate your comment about the mom and pop retailers. Pretty interesting, especially given your platform. So, a question, if I hear you correctly, it sounds like the consumer is fine despite what we read online in the newspapers, etc., recession, job loss, whatever, but sounds like the consumer is fine, the shopper is fine. Sounds like the real wild card are inventory levels. So, it sounds like restaurants and the other similar services that aren't impacted by tariffs are doing well. So, is that correct that we should say that the real concern to earnings is really about inventory levels and whether they can sell out products and hit percent rents, or are there other things that are playing into your outlook?

No, I would say it's all around sales. Now, sales is more than just inventory levels. It's consumer sentiment, right? And that's hard to predict, Alex, as you know. I mean, right now, it's pretty good. Our sales are flat. Two retailers are basically flat. And again, we don't have April sales, but that's basically flat through end of March. And again, I explained the Easter being in Q1 versus Q2 this year. So, I expect sales once I get April numbers to be up, you know, first four months over the year compared to last year. So, the consumer, I think, is fine. I do think they're being a little more cautious. And I do think, you know, I do think tourism is, I don't know if this may be the wrong word, flattening, waning. What are the different phases of the moon? Waxing, waning, whatever it is. I think tourism, you know, to the U.S. is going to be cautious this year, whether it's from Mexican nationals, Canadians, Europeans. I do think, and again, we've just seen a little bit on the border. On the other hand, the dollar is weaker, so maybe that offsets it. But I do think there should be a little bit cautious, caution to the win on just, you know, some, you know, the sales that are generated by -U.S. consumers. And so you put it all together, you know, the economy is clearly a little bit uncertain. You put it all together and it makes it really hard to predict sales right now. But even if it's, you know, like I said, we're just thinking it's going to be a little more cautious, and that's why we're, you know, indicating it's probably more likely, you know, we have this history of beating and raving, and we're trying to be realistic given the set of circumstances that we're dealing with. And that's why we're thinking sales, and it's really only sales that have the variability that could ultimately produce us more in the middle of the range.

And David, if I could just ask clarification, your comments on the U.S. consumer, is that the same for your European and Asian portfolios or those consumers are experiencing different trends in the U.S.?

There actually are, and it's basically our portfolio on investment in Clay Pierre. Japan is, it's all, internationally it's all very good, right? So they're not, their playing field there hasn't changed. So we don't expect, you know, that whole business, whether it's Europe and or Asia, for us is basically stability. So we're outperforming in Europe and in Asia, and, you know, obviously, you know, there's fluctuations. Korea could be up, Japan could be down, but generally, you know, it's basically according to plan. I don't expect any change there. The U.S. consumer that goes to these places really doesn't drive our business.

Thank you.

It's more the Germans going to

Italy and, you know, that kind of stuff. Certainly more likely the Chinese go to Europe than they come here. Okay. Operator, I think we're

ready for next. The next question comes from the line of Caitlin Burrows with Goldman Sachs. Please proceed.

Hi, everyone. Maybe one thing that's tougher to predict than the tenant sales results is OPI, but with that in mind, I guess, wondering, David, if you could go through some of the OPI performance in one queue, kind of talk about what's going on there. And I know they aren't part of guidance, but just trying to understand how some of the revenue and cost synergies that were planned for 2025 are going, expectations for those to progress throughout the year, and then, I guess, separately would be how the tariff situation could impact JCPenney and the other catalyst brands this year.

Again, you know, OPI is, had improvement. Again, OPI is basically three businesses, just so everybody knows. It's our e-commerce business, RGG Shop Simon, which we own roughly 45%. Our interest in Catalyst Group, which is Penny and the other operating brands, Brooks Brothers, Lucky, et cetera, which we now own, remind me, 39%. And our 50% interest in Jamestown. So that's all it is. That's all it plans to be. And it is not, you know, it is not, you know, it's not what we live and breathe every day, though we're focused on creating value there as we have, you know, with AVG and our other OPI investments. So getting to your question, we had quarter over quarter improvement in Catalyst. The other two businesses are stable, fine, going according to plan. The catalyst brands had real improvement quarter over quarter. As you know, part of that was being not only the synergies that it was achieving in the merger, but also the F-21 bankruptcy. F-21 is gone. And they're getting their synergies. And, you know, Penny, in terms of sourcing goods, you know, they have a lot less reliance on China. There is some reliance on China. They're trying to source it elsewhere. And if not, I think they're going to be one of these retailers that has to decide in the next six weeks, you know, whether to pull the trigger to bring goods here or not.

And

obviously they're negotiating very, you know, very hard with, you know, with their suppliers. And they have, you know, I mean, the administration is right. They have more leverage in negotiating with suppliers because the U.S. is a big market. But they're in a tricky spot. It's very hard to predict sales for those brands, just like it would be for some other retailers. You know, but some of the brands and catalysts like Brooks Brothers is doing great. So, you know, they're achieving the synergies that they wanted. The business is on plan. And the bottom line is even with today's uncertainty, we still expect to have, again, it doesn't show in our numbers because of depreciation that I've explained to everybody. But we expect catalysts to have positive EBITDA this year, even with all the, you know, the tariff and economic uncertainty that it's causing going forward. So, you know, again, I would suggest you don't worry about it all that much. You know, that's what we're telling the market, but we're happy to answer any and every question except what the price of a cotton shirt is it looks like. That I don't know. Actually, I do, but I don't want to be a -it-all.

Thanks, David. And Tom Morris

actually is wearing, Tom, you look very nice. Okay, that's a good-looking shirt, actually. It's better than those, you used to wear those weird shirts. Okay. So I think he's a Brooks Weathers consumer.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

The next question comes from the line of Greg McGinnis with Scotiabank. Please proceed.

Hi. Hey, David. Hey, Brian. The balance sheet continues to be in great shape, but has macroeconomic uncertainty reached a point where you're making adjustments to capital plans to maybe become a bit more defensive, whether that's reconsidering certain development activity, capbacks, or your appetite for acquisitions or otherwise?

That's a great question, and I would say we're still making a long-term decision. So, you know, we're very fortunate to, since we've been public, as far as I can remember, even with COVID thrown at us and the great financial recession and everything else, we've never, since I've been involved, we've never been over our skis. And we are, we haven't even put on our skis, if I can keep with the analogy, right? Is that the right word? So we haven't even put on our skis recently, right? So we've been cautious to begin with. We have all these opportunities. We're very studious in them. But I would say, yes, instinctively we're more cautious right now. You know, we are expecting, you know, our development pipeline is there, but it's not, you know, we're not going crazy with it. I think it'll continue. We are expecting construction costs to increase. So, you know, the things that haven't started, obviously we don't start construction until we have the, you know, guaranteed max price anyway. But the things that are on the docket to start or we're getting through, you know, we're not pulling triggers until we have all the costs finalized and everything else. So I think caution is the word of order, but that doesn't mean we won't buy something or that we won't continue to do our pipeline. But, you know, it'd be foolish for us not to be a little more cautious.

Hey, Greg, I think the only thing I would add there is, as you know, as volatility

increases, you know, sometimes for us opportunities increase. So, you know, we have a strong pipeline and we are clinical with our capital, as you know. So nothing really potentially changed, but obviously a bit more caution relative to the headlines these days. I'll give you a simple example. I was just thinking out loud, but, you know, we had one development in Asia. I was going to say it, but, you know, it just didn't feel like the right time to do it just because, you know, it wasn't material. And, you know, it just it just it just feels like we should be a little more cautious. And again, I don't want to I don't want to say that we aren't going to do a couple of deals here that could even be, you know, non-trivial. But, you know, it you know, caution is the is is the word of order right now.

OK, so if I'm looking at development pipeline, maybe we don't go much above this kind of, you know, one billion dollar level for now. And acquisition still on the table. But, of course, everything depends on the underwriting.

I, Greg, I would say in the interview, my fair remarks, you know, we ultimately believe that we're going to start about 500 million of projects that are not included in that billion dollar spent level. So we are still advancing our projects that are ready to move forward, but we're just doing so.

OK, thank you, Brian. Thanks.

The next question comes from the line of floor is Van Dyckham with Compass Point. Please proceed.

Thank you, David. You sound very chipper. I'm glad to hear your voice. Can I ask you about the S&L pipeline, where it stands today? I think end of the fourth quarter was the 250 basis points. Has that grown? And how do you see that? Can you quantify that for us? And what's the timing of those rents coming online? You

may ask, but I'm going to have Brian answer that. Well,

Lawrence, it's

about

300 basis points today. From S&L pipeline, we're

standing about 300 basis points when you run the math on that. It's about $150 million worth of rent, inter-average rents. But again, you know, that's not all incremental to the existing kind of space. So it's not all going to be added to the year. We probably believe that the back half of this year, you're probably going to see 30 to 40% of that.

And the bulk of that will hit in 26, or is there also some spillover in 27?

26 is sub-27. We are seeing some tenants looking out further or having looking out further. So some of that is included in that as well.

And that includes the Forever 21 spaces as well?

It does, yes.

Great. Thank you.

The ones that are least signed up.

And the next question comes from the line of Vince Tabone with Green Street. Please proceed.

Hi. Good evening. Could you discuss trends in tenant sales in a little bit more detail? Well, I'm curious if there are any specific tenants or categories that are having an outsized impact on the decline in trailing 12-month portfolio sales results?

Well, I mentioned one of the decreases. I mean, it's a marginal decrease. But we don't like to get into specific retailers. We had two that were basically flat if you put those two retailers aside. And again, Easter was not in this versus the last 12 months of last time. So when you cut through it, it is relatively flat. And we had a little, you know, the malls were a little bit above. Outlets were a little bit down. And I mentioned earlier part of that was because of the weather. You know, we had a very tough, you know, you probably never experienced it being in Southern California, Newport Beach where it's sunny most of the time. We have other issues there, right? Earthquakes and unfortunately fires. And then again, we had a little softness in some of our border activity. But I would say by and large, our top 25 retailers were pretty much doing okay and up. So, you know, no other than that color, you know, nothing unusual on sales.

No, that's great to hear. Appreciate the color. And then one more switching gears. You didn't mention department stores as it relates to any tariff related or inventory concerns. But I would imagine, you know, many of their products are sourced from China. I'm just curious, what is your current outlook for department store closures over the next few years? Has it changed at all with any of this macro uncertainty?

Yeah, so, you know, it depends on the department store. So for instance, you know, if they don't have private label, they really don't have, you know, they're not sourcing their own goods. They really don't have the tariff, you know, the China tariff exposure that you might think. So it really depends on, you know, which department store you're talking about and how big their private label business is. So if they sell mostly branded goods, then it's really their relationship with the wholesaler and what the wholesaler, so the wholesaler has to pay the import if they get it from China or elsewhere, how they want to negotiate that between a wholesaler's manufacturer and what they want to pass that on to the department store. And, you know, that's a whole complicated, you know, and what the consumer pays. So there's just no way to really know how that all shakes out. And as far as we can see on department store closures, we don't see, you know, as you know, we had the Macy's announcement. We had one that was affected by that. You know, it wouldn't surprise me, you know, if again you don't see pruning, just like you do from every retailer on their store level, but I don't expect any real major changes right now. And again, the tariff situation is idiosyncratic to that department store and mostly impacts whether or not they have a big private label business.

Great. Thank you.

Next question comes from the line of Mike Miller with J.P. Morgan. Please proceed.

Yeah, hi. Going back to sales for a second, I know you flagged Easter and two retailers, but would your recent sales trends be materially different, either positively or negatively, if you look at things on an NOI weighted basis?

Yeah, I would say we used to always do that. I didn't see it. We had it? You don't do it by weighting it. Well, we should do that, by the way, but that's another, that's me telling my guys. But I would say when I look at it, you know, they do, there's no question that the better properties are getting better. So the simple answer to that is sales would be up. And we can give you the specific numbers, but sales would be up if you, if you NOI weighted unequivocally. A hundred assets are up about one and a half percent. And that doesn't include, that again has Easter in March of last year, not April of this year.

Got it. Okay. Okay, great. And maybe one other one. On the 500 million development starts, I think Brian you mentioned mixed use components in there. How much of those dollars or even the overall redevelopment pipeline of those dollars are, you know, directly retail versus some other property type, whether it's office, hotel, you know, resi?

I mean, effectively the 60% that isn't mixed use, quite honestly, Michael.

Okay.

The 60% retail, the other 40% would be mixed use.

Okay. Okay. Perfect. Thank you.

By the way, that's at our share. So some of the, so we have, again, we're going to do a big residential development at Braya Mall. But we have a partner for that. So that's, you know, 500 new starts is our share. So it's a bigger pipe than just that. It's just we boil it down to our shares.

Got it. Thank you. Sure.

The next question comes from the line of Ron Camden with Morgan Stanley. Please proceed.

Great. Hey, just wanted to go back to the guidance. And I think some of the assumptions and inputs that come into last time, appreciate it so early, but how are you guys thinking about sort of domestic property, NOI, bad debt, as well as the 25 and 30 cent interest costs had went for this year? Just how has those sort of changed since the last three months? Thanks so much.

No change,

really.

No, no change in any of those amounts. You can see the interest income starting to come down. It's about six cents of a quarter. We would expect that to carry forward with the balance of the year. You will also

see some more interest

expense

come through as we refinance our debt later this year. Slightly higher coupons on, but no material change in the other elements of

the guidance used out this beginning of the year.

Great. Thanks so much.

Sure. Thank you.

The next question comes from the line of Handel St. Just with Mizuho Securities. Please proceed.

Hi there. This is Ravi Vey, the end of the line for Handel.

I

hope you guys are doing well. I wanted to particularly ask about your luxury tenants. What are you hearing from them in terms of sales and foot traffic, and maybe has there been any sort of pause or pullback on leasing demand from luxury tenants in particular?

Not really. Again, I think it's very brand specific. You have some that are absolutely on fire, others that are bringing in new designers and updating the brand. I think we've been pretty consistent with what we've been doing. They think very long-term like we do. There really hasn't been a change of mood or commitment from those brands. Overall, I'd say the business is, there's always ups and downs, but overall from a sales point of view, relatively flat. We haven't seen the big sales growth, but I think a lot of that is more you have a few brands that are just in the midst of bringing in new designers and more of updating their brand.

Got it. Thank you.

The next question comes from the line of Linda Seid with Jefferies. Please proceed.

Yes, hi. In terms of not seeing pull forward in demand now, do you think there's a scenario where pull forward demand materializes in 3Q if consumers shop earlier for the holiday season, if there's concern that inventories are low or product is more expensive?

We have seen that a little bit historically, so I would say it's possible. If that's the case, margins might be okay because for retailers prices could go up. I do think it's possible. We have seen that in other cases. So I wouldn't rule it out. I think it's to be determined, but I wouldn't rule it

out. Thank you.

Sure. The last question comes from the line of Omotayo Akusanya with Deutsche Bank. Please proceed.

Yes, good afternoon. Just a quick question on the $2.8 billion of debt refinancing. I wonder if you could just talk a little bit about what that market looks like today, any big changes in terms, LTVs, or how lenders are generally looking at the asset class at this point?

Well,

I'd say that lenders are very comfortable with the asset class. We've been upgraded to stay positive. From an S&P perspective, from an unsecured perspective, $1.6 billion of maturities here, we refinanced that back in the unsecured market throughout the balance of the year. And on the mortgage side, you continue to see lenders, CNBS, life insurance companies, and others looking at the asset class and looking to deploy capital, given our leverage levels. We are relatively conservative from a financial point of view, as you know, and so that opens us up to an opportunity to refinance. What we did earlier in the year was representative of that. We've done the first order. I think the market is open for us to continue to refinance. But importantly, we're rolling over our debt. We're not looking for incremental capital. We're not looking

to extract excess proceeds to redeploy into our business. We're doing that with our free cash

flow. But the good news is, you know, good retail real estate, people are very comfortable financing it, and certainly our company.

Thanks, David.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. This concludes the question and answer session. I'd like to turn the call back over to David Simon for closing remarks.

Okay. Just thank you, everybody. I think we'll talk soon. And I believe, you know, at least I do think the mood's getting more certain and more stable, so we're optimistic about this uncertainty resolving itself shortly.

This concludes today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Enjoy the rest of your day.