Veeva Systems Inc. Class A

Thank you for standing by. My name is JL, and I will be a conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the VIVA Systems Fiscal 2025 Third Quarter Results Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, just press star one again. I would now like to turn the conference over to Gunnar Hansen, Director of Investor Relations. You may begin.

Good afternoon and welcome to VIVA's fiscal 2025 third quarter earnings conference call for the quarter ended October 31st, 2024. As a reminder, we posted prepared remarks on VIVA's investor relations website just after 1 p.m. Pacific today. We hope you have had a chance to read them before the call. Today's call will be primarily used for Q&A. With me today for Q&A are Peter Gassner, our Chief Executive Officer, Paul Shawa, EVP Strategy, and Brian VanWagener, our Chief Financial Officer. During this call, we may make forward-looking statements regarding trends, our strategies, and the anticipated performance of the business, including guidance regarding future funding to results. These forward-looking statements will be based on our current views and expectations and are subject to various risks and uncertainties. Actual results may differ materially. Please refer to the risk listed in our earnings release and the risk factors included in our most recent filing on Form 10-Q. Forward-looking statements made during the call are being made as of today, December 5th, 2024, based on the facts available to us today. If this call is replayed or viewed after today, the information presented during the call may not contain current or accurate information. VIVA disclaims any obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements. We may discuss our guidance on today's call, but we will not provide any further guidance or updates on our performance during the quarter unless we do so in a public forum. On the call, we may also discuss certain non-GAAP metrics that we believe aid in the understanding of our financial results. A reconciliation to comparable GAAP metrics can be found in today's earnings release and in the supplemental investor presentation, both of which are available on our website. With that, thank you for joining us, and I'll turn the call over to Peter.

Thank you, Gunnar, and welcome everyone to the call. Q3 was another strong quarter of execution and innovation. We delivered financial results above our guidance with total revenue of $699 million and non-GAAP operating income of $304 million. It was a really great quarter of execution by the Viva team. We saw broad-based adoption in all areas of development cloud. We also had a number of significant milestones in commercial, including great progress on bulk CRM. It's an exciting time as we look ahead to our 2030 goals. We'll now open up the call to your questions.

Thank you. The floor is now open for questions. If you have dialed in and would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad to raise your hand and join the queue. If you would like to withdraw your question, simply press star 1 again. If you are called upon to ask a question and are listening via loudspeaker on your device, please pick up your handset and ensure that your phone is not on mute when asking your question. We do request for today's session that you do limit yourself to one question and one follow-up. Your first question comes from the line of Saket Kalia of Barclays. Your line is open.

OK, great. Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my questions here, and nice job this quarter. Peter, maybe just to start with you, to your point, Viva did have some nice innovation this quarter, particularly with Vault CRM. So I was wondering, as you talk to customers about their migration away from Viva CRM and away from other potential competitors, what are the future roadmaps that you're sort of speaking to them around the benefits of Vault CRM? I guess as we all sort of wonder about the effort involved in moving off of Viva CRM, what are you talking about the main benefits when moving to Vault CRM, if that makes sense?

Yeah, Sackett, excellent question. I'll try to keep that crisp. One of the benefits is a really important one that they've always appreciated from Viva is continuous innovation of features. So you see the Viva CRM team, that great Viva CRM product team, product management team, who's been keeping that industry-leading application for the years, that's now on Vault CRM. So the way to stay on that innovation train is to be on Vault CRM. So they're looking forward to that. The other one is the idea of a platform for customer centricity that can span sales, medical, marketing and service. A single view of the record so that they can both be more efficient with their customers, but also more respectful. Now, in life sciences, you have smaller biotechs. They may have 200 people in their company. They have large biopharm. They may have 50,000 people in their company and over 20,000 people in their field. So there's there's different levels of appetite for change. You can change 200 people faster than you can change 20,000 people. So for the small biotechs, they're looking forward to like, wow, we could just jump on and we could just be clean on that quickly. For the larger, larger companies, you know, with 20,000 employees, they will look to be enthused about, well, there's potential there, right? We could change to that when we want to, if Viva delivers that in the way we think They're going to, so they view it as optionality.

Got it. Got it. Super helpful. Brian, maybe for my follow-up for you, it was great to see the strong Q4 billings outlook remain largely unchanged, of course, on the back of a strong Q3 as well. Maybe the question is, can you just talk a little bit about how much the CDMS ramps are contributing to that, and how you sort of think about CDMS as a driver for billings going into next year as well, even anecdotally.

Thanks, Dr. So, I think we're not going to get into the specific, you know, detailed billings information by product area, but overall within CDMS, I'd say it's playing out about as we expected. You know, recall a lot of the CDMS growth is predefined multiyear ramps, and so those are largely proceeding as expected. And then more broadly in Q4 and generally going forward, I think our growth and our billings are driven more by a broad base of products than any one product in particular.

Very helpful. Thanks, guys.

Your next question comes from the line of Ken Wong of Oppenheimer. Your line is open.

Great. Thanks for taking my question. This first one just could be Peter or Paul. You touched on MLR bought as potentially being a second, well, it will be a separate license. One, I guess, what kind of early interest are you getting there? And then two, when we think about the potential monetization, is it going to be comparable to one of your commercial modules, which I think in the past you've said is a 10% to 15% uplift, or is this something more value-add and something you can charge higher for?

Yeah, hey, Ken, thanks for the question. This is Paul. So I was at our Europe Summit event where we announced MLRbot, something we've been thinking about, evaluating for some time. We think we can help advance how our customers get their commercial content approved and do that more efficiently. That's what this is about, providing checks, using GenAI to understand and provide insights as to what parts of the content they need to spend time on and what parts of the content they can move very quickly with. So there's a lot of excitement. This is a really core process for life sciences companies. So a lot of excitement there. We are planning on, this will be a separate license. It will be, the way to think about it is roughly an add-on to what we're providing in PromoMaps. And then in terms of sizing and the monetization, we're still working through the details on that. But there's a ton of excitement from our existing customers. We look forward to getting some early customers started on that as we go into next year.

Got it. Perfect. And then, Brian, also in the preparer mark, you guys touched on kind of good billings up by driven by services. And, you know, when I think about the year, the first part of the year, perhaps some push out in services. Now you're calling out potentially some better services. Anything to read into that or, again, maybe more just kind of one off timing dynamic?

Thanks, Ken. I think overall, really pleased with the execution from the team on both the subscription and the services side in the quarter. We saw several projects complete or progress more quickly than we'd previously expected. And so that's the main driver of the beat on revenue and billings for services. You know, I think you'll recall that the earlier part of the year, we had several different factors impacting performance, one of which was subcontractor revenue And so I think what we're seeing now is stabilizing of that base and pleased with the team's work in Q3 as we look ahead.

Okay, fantastic. Thanks a lot, guys.

Your next question comes from the line of Joe Vrewink of Baird. Your line is open.

Great. Thanks for taking my questions. In the prepared remarks, there was mentioned that Viva is making progress on several large strategic partnership opportunities in development cloud. I wanted to see if these are maybe similar in scope to how Viva has come to work with the likes of Merck and BI and what was discussed under kind of those large strategic engagements. And if not, or if so, Can you maybe speak to any commonality in terms of the discussions you're having, the type of solutions or end objectives that sponsors are looking to achieve and see as possible by just leveraging Viva in a greater way?

Yeah, this is Peter. I'll take that one. I want to say this carefully. I would say similar but not the same as VI and Merck. similar in that it's a strategic level and that it is across product lines. But each one is different in its own way. Part of that, it has to do with we have more products that are mature now than if you look when we have a great program with the BI, the One Medicine, Barnier Ingelheim, the One Medicine program. Now, that was a few years ago, really, when the genesis of that started. we have more products now in the clinical and the quality area that are mature so um the discussion is now both it's more expansive we have more products to talk about um and then and then sometimes these discussions are going to be very particular it might be just in the clinical area but it might be across all the clinical products or it might be focused on the regulatory and the quality and the clinical operations area. But again, those are those are bigger areas than they used to be. So summary, there's similar but different just as you know, all the top 20 pharma companies are different from each other. They have different cultures, they have different product portfolios, they have different objectives, and they have different people. So they're not all going to be the same.

Okay, that's very helpful. Thanks, Peter. And then I guess I'll ask my annual question. Just given customers are well into their budgeting for the new year, Viva typically has good visibility at this point in terms of how some of those plans are coming together. How does your visibility on intended performance in 2026 change? compared to what you normally have at this point in time? Not asking for a number, but just kind of how visibility compares. And would you maybe say it's any better or worse by virtue of things like ramping agreements that you know are coming or just the state of active discussions with customers?

This is Peter. I would say marginally better visibility as compared to a year ago. I think our customers have settled into this macro environment a little bit more. I also think we have more bites with the apple. Every year we have more mature products. So therefore, uh no one particular thing is swinging things one way or the other and as you mentioned the we have these ramps so i would say slightly more visibility but nothing dramatically different great thank you very much thanks question comes from the line of brian peterson of raymond james your line is open oh hi gentlemen thanks for taking the question and congrats on the strong quarter um

Peter, I just really wanted to hit on the regulatory backdrop. I know there's a lot of potential changes coming in the Trump administration, at least that are being discussed. You know, I'd love to understand, you know, what your customer feedback has been there and how you think about the potential implications to Viva under a new administration.

Paul, do you want to take that one, Paul? Yeah, Peter, I'll take that one. So, Brian, thanks for the question. So, first, it's very early, right? There's still a lot of things that need to be settled out as it relates to the administration change. Nominations need to be confirmed. Priorities need to be established. All of that sort of stuff. And our customers are accustomed to this, right? They've seen administration changes before. They know that in some cases there's some uncertainty and things may change in the future. And what we see is our customers are just focused on what they need to do. They have priorities. They have work that needs to get done right now, and they're focused on that. So we're not really seeing any change in how customers are making decisions or how they're thinking about projects. I remember a lot of these projects that they have with us have been planned well in advance. These are mission-critical systems. So things are largely continuing as planned. And I think as things change, as things become reality, the industry will react accordingly. But so far, it's business as usual.

Got it. And maybe a follow-up for Brian. The margin upside this quarter was really impressive. Just anything that you would call out in terms of timing of expenses in the third quarter, I would appreciate any perspective there. Thanks, guys.

Hey, Brian. Thanks for the question. This is Brian as well. So in Q3, I think that the revenue outperformance, roughly speaking, about half driven by the revenue beat and then a quarter driven by the timing of expenses and the quarter, remaining quarter driven by just continued expense discipline. So on those timing elements that you asked about, there's some things that we expected to hit in Q3 that will instead move into Q4 or into Q1. And, you know, we always expect some variability there, but nothing specific.

Your next question comes from the line of Ryan McDonald of Needham & Company. Your line is open.

Thanks for taking my questions. Peter, maybe I just wanted to ask on the Boehringer deal on the large vault win there. Just curious as to what the tenor or thoroughness of the evaluation process that maybe they were going through and how that compares to other prospective migrations in the pipeline from the top 20. Just trying to understand maybe how deep they are sort of evaluating other solutions in the marketplace versus just sort of being a Viva only type discussion at this point. Thanks.

Yeah, thanks for the question, Ryan. I'll take this one. You know, first of all, the Behringer-Engelheim announcement was super exciting. It's an innovative company. You may have heard the fireside discussion I had with their CIO, Marcus, talking about the innovation, what they have in front of them over the next five years or so in terms of product launches. They were looking for consistency, a partner that can execute. They talked about that in that conversation. You heard them saying that a lot of vendors promise a lot of things, and Viva's one that has consistently delivered for them over the long term. And that's not something to be taken for granted, right? So that's really about execution. And then, of course, the full innovation roadmap and where we're headed. Did they do a thorough analysis? Absolutely. And all these customers are thinking deeply. They all have their own process. Every customer is a little bit different and unique. Some customers will make decisions for different reasons. So you'll see different decision-making, but I would say in some respects they're thorough in their own ways, but these decisions are made by people, which means there's naturally differences in how they make decisions.

Paul, thanks very much. Maybe just a follow-up for Brian. Obviously, with the rollout of these generative AI applications, a few of them being sort of included at no additional charge, how should we think about how that impacts gross margins going into next year, understanding that obviously we're not giving guidance yet for next year, but Just generally, how you think that as the adoption usage of the Gen-A apps grows over the next year, any sort of impacts we should expect from a margin perspective? Thanks.

Thanks. Peter, do you want to take that one?

Yeah, so I will take that. Generally, we announced two Gen-AI solutions, one we call CRM Bot and the other one MLR Bot. MLR bot we will charge for, and that's where we will host and run a large language model, not our own language model, right? We'll use one from the big tech providers, but we'll be paying for the compute power for that, and so we'll be charging for that. For the CRM bot, that's where we will hook our CRM system into the customer's own large language model that they're running, and that's where we will not charge for and we will not incur compute costs. Where we have to use significant compute power, we will most likely charge. And where we don't, we most likely won't. There won't be any material impact to our gross margin. In general, Brian, you've given your thoughts on the gross margin profile for 2030, and AI is not going to change that. That's all factored in.

Appreciate the clarification. Thanks, Peter.

Your next question comes from the line of Ann Samuel of JPMorgan. Your line is open.

Hi. Thanks so much for taking the question. You highlighted that your safety solutions are approaching a tipping point, and I was wondering if maybe you could provide a little bit more color about what that means. And then could you just remind us of the relative size of this market, what's the unmet need, and where Viva is differentiated here?

Yeah. So it's more of a feeling, you know, when you're approaching a tipping point, it's a little bit different than being at the tipping point. So it's the level of depth of the customer conversations we're having and multiple large customers. Every year, the legacy systems that they're using are aging a little bit. And every year, our cloud-based solutions are getting better and they're getting more optimized and more people are using them. And... It's kind of like that. You have a feeling that the tipping point is coming. We've also filled out our suite. We have our core safety processing application, which we've had for some time. But now we have safety signal and safety workbench available. Those are things they need. And in terms of what they're looking for is, A, they do want a cloud-based system because they don't – The idea of doing upgrades and taking changes and stuff is unappealing. A lot of these systems are legacy in aging. So there's one, just modernization. But the second one is advanced automation within the safety system to do some things without manual intervention. And then across systems, for example, between clinical data management and the safety system, there's a lot of innovation that we can do because we have both sides of of those applications so they're they're looking for automation not to take the people totally out of the loop because the people have to be in the loop to know what's going on so that they can care and notice and act appropriately but to free them up from you know the the redundant activities that they don't need to be doing

That's really helpful, thank you. And then maybe just one more, you noted that your customers are, as you said, settling into the current macro. And was wondering, are you viewing this as the new normal? And if not, what are you monitoring for early signs of inflection from here and which areas of your business would really see a change first? Thanks.

Yeah, I think this level of uncertainty that we have in the macro is now what people are accustomed to now. you know i guess it could change right but we won't know if it's changing unless it unless it does change we haven't detected that so they're just sort of settling in um to getting work done you know actually code was not that long ago and that was a real shock to the system right that was very very not normal and then the two conflicts that we had started that was also very very not normal but now people are getting a little bit more used to these things the highest mistakes right for a while the economy had gotten used to very low interest rates. Now it's back to, okay, well, interest is not free anymore. So I don't want to call it really the new normal, but I guess it is the new normal.

Really helpful. Thank you.

Your next question comes from the line of Dave Windley of Jefferies. Your line is open.

Hi. Thank you, and I apologize for background noise. If it comes through, I was wondering... I understand you answered the question about changes in administration earlier, but theoretically, if appointments were approved and if appointments followed through on some of their desires and direct-to-consumer advertising was eliminated, how would that impact your business model positively in any way? Thanks.

Yeah, hey, Dave, thanks for the question. So your question, actually, the way you framed it, was interesting, right? There's a lot of this there. There's a lot of things that would actually have to happen for that to become a reality. The nominations, the priorities, the policy, potentially even legislation to make that happen. So it would be a lot to happen, but it'd certainly be a major change, right? And probably something that's challenged, right? Just the idea of changing access to patients' rights to information, for example, could become a barrier to that kind of thing happening. So a lot would have to happen, and I think it would likely be challenged. In terms of what happens to our business, I think this is the kind of thing that, if it were enacted, would take many, many years because of it being challenged. So I don't expect any near-term impact on our business, and I haven't seen our customers really reacting in any sort of negative way, even given some of the commentary that's been out there. So, you know, I think it's kind of deal with it when it happens, and I think that's how our customers are thinking about it, to focus on the near term.

Your next question comes from the line of Kirk Attern of Evercore MSI. Your line is open.

Hi, this is Bill on for Kirk, and thanks for taking my question. In the prepared remarks, you noted that CrossFix has been driving commercial growth. What factors at play would you say are driving this performance?

I think really good execution by the CrossFix team. Some real innovation that they're doing, particularly in the audiences area. With the micro audiences getting more fine-tuned. Also, our data network is growing all the time. We have a Our data network, we leverage that for Compass and CrossFix. So our data network is getting more rich all the time as we add more data sources. We have competition in those markets, for sure. I think our competition has had some stumbles in the last year or two, maybe made some promises that they couldn't deliver on. And we tend to do well when a new player comes into a market, makes a lot of promises, and then doesn't do well, that creates a tailwind for us. So I think that's a positive. Also, the integration with our CRM product, I think, is something that customers are noticing, the integration with the rest of this CRM suite. But overall, CrossX is not the main driver of our strength in commercial. It's one of the drivers, but it's the CRM products, the commercial content products, Compass had a good quarter, et cetera. Cross-X was one of the wheels on the train.

Great. Thanks for taking my question. Thank you.

Your next question comes from one of Gabriela Borges of Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.

Hi. Good afternoon. Thank you. I think this one is for Paul. Paul, I want to revisit the discussion on commercial growth and specifically on what's happening with the seat count dynamic versus the add-on and the upsell dynamic within seat count-based commercial. Maybe just give us an update on how those two factors are playing out and to what extent you're still seeing pressure in seat count and to what extent you feel confident that you can offset any seat count pressure without. Thank you.

Yeah, so I think your question is about seat count as well as in core CRM also as it relates to the add-ons. So overall, the market's relatively stable. So over the last couple of years, you've heard us talk about some of the shifts and the dynamics as the industry's become a little more digital. We saw some reductions. That has generally stabilized out. So although you may see individual companies adding or reducing their rep counts, on average, the industry's relatively stable. I don't expect much change there. As it relates to our add-on products, we continue to make progress there, meaning the attach rates become higher. As every quarter goes on, we tend to increase our attach rates with some of those products. Some have higher attach rates. Others still have more room to grow. So that's the way to think about it. I think it'll be relatively stable over the next couple of years as it relates to a market perspective. I think the market's at a new steady state.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you. The follow-up is on your learning so far from the CRM conversions to Vault that you've already done. Maybe just highlight for us, what do you know today that you didn't know a year or two ago on using the customer transition to Vault, and how has that helped you navigate some of the conversations on the ground?

Yeah, so Learning, well, there's a significant difference from where we were two years ago to where we are today. Two years ago, it was really, it was an idea. What we had, our idea and our strategy was just being formed. And to where we are today is a kind of remarkable difference in terms of what we've been able to achieve. Now a product and market that's at full functionality. We have our first early migrations, which our plan to be live, the technical goal live is happening this year, and then some big migrations happening next year. So we've learned a lot, I would say, around the migration tooling. We've built the migration tooling, and now we have confidence that we know what that needs to do. We know you always find things as you go along, right? You learn as you go along, and we found things that didn't work, and we fixed it. And now the migration is, migration tooling and technology is in a good place. We've learned ways to help make it even more disruptive or even less disruptive for customers. So I think we feel really good about that. And then I think maybe the third thing is just thinking about, particularly for small and mid-sized customers, how they're able to really take advantage of that move to Vault CRM very quickly, and then turning on some of this new innovation very fast. Some of our new products like Service Center, Campaign Manager, And then over time, the areas like the connectivity with all promo maps, the integration with the tighter connectivity with things like Microsoft and Teams and Outlook and everything else. So we've learned a lot, and we're executing better. We get better and better each quarter that goes on.

Great to hear. Thanks for the follow-up.

Your next question comes from the line of Brent Braceland of Piper Sandler. Your line is open.

Thank you. Good afternoon. Reading through the prepared remarks here and the comments here in the call so far, something reads and feels a little different relative to the top 20 appetite to lean into the broader Viva portfolio here. I know historically you've talked about the top 20 governor being maybe engaging one product a year, but I get the sense that maybe there's a greater sense of urgency to move off of legacy and embrace maybe multiple products. Walk me through the level of dialogue you're having across the whole portfolio with these top 20. Is that the right read or is it a misread?

I think that read of more comprehensive doing things is Paul Cecala, Probably pretty particular to the development cloud area because that's where suite is the most most mature and most most proven, but I would say in that area, yes, I wouldn't take dramatically more you know going fast and going all in, but a bit more than it was a year ago and. The reasons for that are pretty mechanical because every year, if we deliver more products, more high-quality products, and have one more year of track record of customer success, it's a reinforcing function. And that gives us a lot of, you know, that gives us a tailwind. But it's also a big responsibility. So, for example, when the CIO of Boehringer Ingolstein said, to everybody at Viva, you know, that we go with Viva because your stuff works and you deliver on what you said. You know, we take that pretty seriously. Wow, that's a big responsibility. So we got to, you know, we got to deliver what we said we're going to do. So every year we do that, trust increases and trust is a business accelerator, as it should be.

Helpful color. And then maybe, Brian, for you, 43.5% operating margin. This is kind of the highest we've seen out of Viva on record. The biggest beat versus your guide in three years. A bit of a hot start for you for the first quarter out of the gate, but how should we think about the cost discipline you put in place in the quarter and leverage? Your guide obviously implies you're going to have some additional expenses here in Q4, but walk us through the the philosophy on cost discipline and leverage you showed this quarter and what it means here as we think about next year.

Hey, Brent, thanks for the question. It's a nice start, certainly, but really a testament to the great execution from the Viva team. More than half of that outperformance on the margin, as I mentioned, is due to the revenue side. And so that's outstanding execution across our sales team, our services teams, the product teams, The team's working to create value for our customers every day. So we're continuing to be really pleased with the execution on that front. And then as far as the second part of your question around our philosophy around cost management, no real change that I'd say to that philosophy. We think about managing costs on a period-by-period basis. We make investments in growth as we feel we need to. And there happen to be a few expenses this quarter that moved out to other quarters that and then that ongoing cost discipline that you've heard from us in the past. So overall, strong execution from the team on both the top and the bottom line.

Helpful. Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Stan Berenstein of Wells Fargo. Your line is open.

Hi. Thanks for taking my questions. First, I would just like to follow up on VaultCRM. At the Investor Day, you have suggested more top 20 commitments likely to be announced over the next six months or so. So clearly, these conversations are maturing. Now, as you reflect on these discussions you're having with clients, what have been the gating factors to get these commitments? And with Walt CRM already out in the wild, as you say, has the hurdle for these commitments come down at all?

Yeah.

Hey, Stan. First, we're excited about where we are. We got our fourth top 20 commitment. We're executing really well. We're pleased with the progress there. I do continue to expect additional commitments over the next several months. Yeah, I mean, it's a significant advantage having a real product, right? Having a product in the market, we have customers live, we have customers migrating to it. We're innovating in the product in many different ways. And I got to hear a lot about that innovation, our customers' reaction to that innovation, In person at our customer summit event, everything from what Peter talked about, sales, marketing, and medical in a single vault, that's foundationally different. Our AI strategy, we talked about how we're executing well against that. So in a sense, I would say, yeah, each deal that we have, we make a little more progress. But certainly, I would also kind of balance that with every customer is a little bit different. They optimize for different things. We're certainly not going to win every deal. But we still expect to win the vast majority of the deals that are out there. And we're pleased with kind of where things stand and the progress we're making so far in top 20 and beyond.

Great. And then quickly, on your pivot toward horizontal enterprise applications, when can we expect a more concrete product strategy that you'll be able to share with us?

Thanks. I'll take that one. In terms of the new market, horizontal business applications work. Taking a platform-specific approach there in terms of any update in terms of exactly what application area or customer segment, there's no specific timeline for that. We'll just have to let that play out, and we'll let you know when we have more information available.

Great. Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Tyler Radke of Citi. Your line is open.

Yeah, thanks for taking the question here. If you think about FY26, I know you're not giving formal guidance, but just any way of framing how we should think about the growth in the context of this year and your long-term targets. And as we think about the macro environment, clearly your numbers have been very resilient. But just given you do have longer sale cycles, have you seen any change in sort of the early stages of those larger deals that may be layering in towards the back half of next year, for instance, that you would call out. Thank you.

Hey, Tyler. So as Peter covered, I think we've got probably a little bit better visibility to next year, marginally speaking, than prior years. But not giving fy 26 guidance at this time we'll do that after the q4 results overall you know for the year our updated guidance reflects um subscription growth of about 15 so really pleased with that growth rate against our long-term growth targets okay your next question comes from line of craig hettenbach of morgan stanley your line is open

Thanks. Just going back to the horizontal strategy and the strength and the core business margin profile today, how do you think about that in terms of perhaps getting a little bit more leverage to make some of these investments as you get that going?

Yeah, I'll take that one. Well, First, we just have to do the right thing by the customers, and that's about keeping lean teams, product excellence, delivering a lot of values. And you see that in our financial profile. We spend almost twice as much in product as we do in sales and marketing. So that's really our focus, being efficient. And then for the horizontal business applications, I think it's not really – that we need dollars to invest there. It's really, you need a small team and a tiger team and a very focused team. So yeah, I, we certainly have the capital to all the capital that we would need to, um, invest in the new market, horizontal business applications with the additional revenue of what we have coming in. Mostly we're going to put that into customer support and customer success and new products. and filling out our existing products inside of life sciences. So that's basically the way to think about that. The revenue in life sciences will really stay in life sciences.

Got it. And then I just had a follow-up question on services. That market looks to be stabilizing. How do you think about that on a multi-year profile from a growth, even if it's a range? What's a reasonable growth assumption in services looking out next couple of years?

Hey, Craig. This is Brian. So, you know, I think as with the revenue guidance, we won't give specific guidance on services revenue until after our Q4 results, but happy with how the team are continuing to execute and the momentum we saw coming out of Q3. Okay.

Thanks.

Your next question comes from the line of DJ Hines of Canaccord. Your line is open.

Hey, guys. Congrats on the nice quarter. Hey, Paul, one of the questions I've picked up in Salesforce reported earlier this week is that they called out Life Sciences Cloud as a component of three of their top 10 deals in the quarter. I'm not asking you to speak for them, but as you see what's happening at your customers, is there any sense that Salesforce is showing up more often?

Yeah, I mean, it's certainly in our larger customers. They're in the vast majority of our customers having conversations, and that's That's no surprise, right? That's not something we are surprised about. We've expected to see that. In terms of are they showing up more frequently? I don't know that there's a change. We certainly still see them in the market, and they're the primary competitor. I think as I alluded to before, you know, Acuvia is out of the game. Their product's sunset. We're competing with Salesforce. They don't have a product yet. So that's really who's – who the primary competitor is at this point.

Yeah, yeah, okay. And then, Brian, a follow-up for you. Can you just remind me of the impact that TFC has on margins this year and whether there's any normalization or reversal that we should be thinking about as we set our models for next year?

Yeah, so on the TFC side, just recall that's predominantly a revenue side normalization, so it impacts the margins a bit, but I think we are certainly excited to jump into next year and to stop having both normalized for TFC and non-normalized for TFC results to report. On the revenue side, it impacted the growth rate year over year by about 2%. Okay.

All right. Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Jalendra Singh of True Securities. Your line is open.

Thank you, and thanks for taking my questions. I want to go back to Walt. CRM, congrats on the fourth top biopharma commitment. Can you confirm whether it's an existing CRM customer or your new CRM customer? And related to that, can you remind us what is the average length of time from a customer commitment to vault to migration to when they are live on the platform? If it is largely based on customer preferences, how do they typically think about when they want to migrate post-commitment?

Yeah, Jalendra, so let me take that second part first around migration. I would say it varies pretty significantly by the size and complexity of the customer. If you're a top 20 customer, it's likely very, very different than a small or mid-sized customer. A small customer may be migrated in, let's say, four weeks or six weeks. And then as you expand up to a top 20, that can take closer to two years. So we see that difference in terms of their timing, when they make a commitment. The commitment depends on their timeframe. We're not doing anything unnatural to try to force a commitment. And there's a lot of things that they have to think about. What's happening in their own business, the timing of, let's say, launches that they have. Should they do the migration before a launch or after a launch? So those kinds of things come into play. So each customer is a little bit different. They optimize for slightly different things. Um, but, uh, we're, you know, our strategy is to make this minimally disruptive and as easy as possible to get them to a decision, but also to the migration.

And on whether it's a new customer or existing CRM customer.

Um, that question, Paul was the top 20 win. Was that a new customer for us or an existing customer? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, so the top 20 that we just announced was an existing customer. So that was, I think you're referring to the Behringer Ingelheim announcement. Is that what you're referring to? Yes. Yeah, so Behringer Ingelheim has been a very long-term customer for Viva in commercial and then over the last several years, last couple of years in R&D also. We've worked very closely with them and the commercial side made them successful

be the crm and they're putting their trust in us for vault crm uh for the for the long term so yeah existing customer and my follow-up is on the you know decent exploration in net headcount increase in the quarter uh anything to read into that i mean clearly you're seeing some good momentum here any particular areas you guys are focused on with respect to headcount additions or is it more across the board this is brian i'll take that question so we

We were happy to see headcount increase in the quarter. We're continuing to make investments in growth. It's broad-based, but certainly in our product areas is a key focus as we look ahead to next year and something we're pleased with the execution around the hiring of. Thanks, guys.

Your next question comes from the line of Andrew Degasperi of BNP Paribas. Your line is open.

Thanks for fitting me in. I just had two questions. First, on the migration of these customers to Vault CRM, I was just wondering, do we start seeing an impact to gross margin, in other words, that royalty that you paid for Salesforce for Viva CRM? Is that going to improve over the next two years as these customers migrate, or should we see this sort of improve later as the agreement ends?

There is some secular change in gross margins as we look out, but these, recall, are pretty long-range migrations. There's still a long time to go in the Vault migration story, both the decisions that customers are making as well as their migration away from Viva CRM on the Salesforce platform towards Vault CRM on the Vault platform. And so that adjustment, that shift to margins over time, that improvement will take some time for you to see in the results and really spread out between now and 2030. Thanks.

And then just on the direct-to-consumer advertising comments you made earlier, I just, if you could remind us, I mean, is it Crosslix, the one product that really is focused on that, or is there others within the commercial cloud portfolio that And maybe if you could add in as well, is that really, in terms of the strength that you saw this year, has this been a change versus the previous year?

Yeah. Cross-ex is the one from VITA that's most involved with direct-to-consumer advertising and measurement and the audiences around that. Now it's direct-to-consumer, but it's also to the healthcare providers as well. So Cross-ex is not only direct-to-consumer. And Cross-X has been performing well for us, but also what's been performing well for us is CRM and the add-ons, the commercial content, and also our data products, DataPad, VivaLink, and VivaCompass. So in the commercial area, we've had pretty broad-based strength.

Great. Thank you.

Your next question comes from a line at David Larson of BTIG. Your line is open.

Hi. Congratulations on the very good quarter. The CROs have obviously reported some challenges. Obviously, you're not a CRO doing the clinical trials, but you do sell into that space. Can you maybe just talk about what the difference is there? Why are they seeing challenges, but you are not? And has there been any impact to things like study training or SiteConnect or any more of those clinical trial-related focused products? Thank you.

Peter, I'll take that one. The CROs, they do make a lot of their revenue as associated with particular studies. So as a customer is planning a study and then they're deciding to go forward and then they're bidding out services and the CRO selects and wins the services, that's a long lag time until the CRO gets revenue and they get revenue from that from those studies over the next year or two years or even three years. So I would say a year or so ago and two years ago and one year ago, there were more customers facing uncertainty and certainly smaller customers facing funding issues. And so they were stopping planned trials. They don't usually stop the trials that were in flight. So they were maybe stopping some planned trials that would have turned into CRO revenue maybe this year. So that's maybe my best estimate of what you're seeing from the CROs. Now, how is that effective? It doesn't really, because most of our revenue is not on a study-by-study basis. CROs is a good channel for us, and some of that is study-by-study. For example, the EDC is study-by-study. Randomization and trial supply management is study-by-study for us in the CROs. But, for example, our ETMF product, and our CTMS product, those are long-term enterprise license agreements that are not affected by the ups and downs of study volume. So we're not 100% insulated from the ups and downs in studies, but pretty darn close.

Thanks very much. And then for vault CRM wins, I think there were 14 in the quarter. That seems like a very good number. There were like three and five and five in fiscal three Q and four Q of 24 and one Q of 25. 14 sounds like a lot. Is that a new sort of steady state and why is there like such an uptick? Thanks.

Yeah. So I think it was, it might've been 13 if I remember the exact number correctly, but, um, Yeah, we see roughly that amount in the quarter. In fact, I think it was 13 exactly. We see roughly that amount each quarter. Think about it as these are companies most likely that are choosing a program system. So most customers that have products in market already, they already have some sort of system. Yes, there's still some of them to win, but the vast majority of the 13 are pre-commercial companies. They may be getting their field medical teams or getting prepared for their commercial launch. And that's what we're winning. And we're winning virtually all of those deals that are out there. And that's super exciting for us. And a lot of these customers will continue to grow and expand you know, as they go from their pre-commercial stage into something that's commercial and even larger. But, yeah, we're winning. Our win rate is very, very high. Thanks very much.

Your next question comes from Charles Rye of TD Callen. Your line is open.

Yeah, thanks for taking the question. I wanted to ask about, obviously, with the Walgreens strategic fundership, Maybe talk about a little bit more where you think you are in your journey in adding data sources to Compass and Data Cloud in general, and maybe just give us a sense on how you feel sort of your competitive position in the market there is currently.

I'll take that one. Thanks, Peter. We're always looking for new data sources, and we... You know, we look at that and we're patient when we evaluate things. And when we see an opportunity to increase our data network, we'll take that if it's a reasonable opportunity. So Walgreens was a great partnership that we could have. And there's more of those we can do. In terms of our competitive position with our data network, I think we have the strongest data network in the industry. Remember that powers Compass and it also powers CrossFix. And it's a patient-first data network. So we're getting a lot of data that has to do with patient data, not just retail pharmacy data. So I feel really, really comfortable with where we're at and the number of data sources we have and the way we do the matching of the patient data across multiple sources in a very accurate way. And that leads us to be able to make great products in both Compass and the measurements and audiences, but also in CrossFix, but also in Compass for our patient product and our prescriber product. Those are pretty disruptive products for the industry. There's a way that they've been doing things for multiple years. We're bringing out a bit of a disruptive way. So change takes time, but every quarter we're adding more customers and more customers for Compass patients and We've got a flywheel going there. It's a little flywheel right now, but it's spinning, and I'm very happy with it.

That's helpful. And maybe just to follow up on CrossX, obviously a key driver of growth in commercial. Can you give us a sense what the CrossX growth rate has been through the first three quarters relative to the 11% growth for commercial? Just give us a sense. Is it growing faster, or is it in line? Any color, that would be helpful. Thanks.

Hey, this is Brian. I'll take that one. We won't get into specific product level growth rates, but overall, you know, pleased with how the CrossFix team has performed this year and executed against the market opportunity. It's a really strong and healthy growing market, and we're continuing to take share in that and something we hope to continue going forward.

Okay. Thank you.

Your next question comes from the line of Brad Sills of Bank of America. Your line is open.

Oh, great. Thank you so much. I wanted to ask a question on just the general demand environment. It sounds like things are fairly stable, but maybe some green shoots that you're seeing in the big pharma. I think in some of the prepared remarks, you know, segment of the commercial business, if I'm not I'm sorry, the R&D business, if I'm reading that properly. So are you seeing any kind of indications that things might be turning positive here just in the general spending environment? Thank you.

I think it's a good environment for Viva. I wouldn't say great. I think it's stabilized. So as you compare it to a year ago, it's a bit setter. But these are long-term capabilities, especially in the development cloud and with the larger customers, long-term capabilities that they're putting in. So it's not going to have dramatic ups and downs. But what I'm encouraged about is these are big trains and they're moving. And that's That's what we need to support our 2030 goals and our goals to add more value to the industry overall. So I was encouraged. I was really encouraged with the progress this last quarter. I was encouraged and energized by the individual discussions that the Viva team was having with senior executives and that I was having with senior executives. So it was a good quarter.

That's great to hear. And then anything, any update on the re-platforming effort? You know, how do you feel about, you know, taking that to some of the larger accounts? Are you getting to the point where you're comfortable doing that? And any kind of early indications of how that's going? Thank you.

Yeah, the re-platforming of VIVA CRM onto Vault CRM, you know, very comfortable with that. We announced it two years ago. Of course, you're not comfortable with anything when you announce it. Two years ago, you announced a plan, and it's an audacious plan, and you have to execute on it. So you better be paranoid at that time for obvious reasons. And we were. We were really focused. We have live customers now. We have so many of the product features that we needed into the platform. We've adapted the existing CRM product. to where we need it and to now the full functionality as compared to the vault CRM as full functionality as compared to Viva CRM. And we have these two new applications, campaign manager and service center. So it's definitely ready and we're really excited to have it. You know, if you would have told me two years ago, if you said, hey, here's where you'll be two years from now, I would be, I'd take that in a heartbeat. I'd be ecstatic. It means that the bears didn't come out to eat us. You know, we got through the forest. So I'm very happy with that.

That's great to hear. Thanks, Peter.

Thanks. Your next question comes from Steven Veliket of Mizuho Securities. Your line is open.

Great. Thanks. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking the questions. It's good to be covering the company again. Just a couple questions here. First, on the development cloud, on the back of our initiation, we did some channel checks on industry R&D spending trends, et cetera. And one of the questions I wanted to ask on that was actually just touched on on the last question, but maybe just to drill in a little bit deeper. I mean, it does look like clinical trials start globally are actually growing again now for the last two quarters after declining for year over year for a couple of years. So I'm just curious as the follow-up question around that, do you guys actually look carefully at data points like that Or do you just focus more on your own customer discussions, et cetera, that you just alluded to as far as your assessment of the marketplace? And then the only other quick follow-up question really is just at the analyst day a few weeks ago, the way you guys broke down your total revenue base by customer type was just a little bit different this year than it was last year. So I'm hoping you can just remind us again what percent of your total book of business relates to CRO customers, just from a percentage of revenue standpoint. I recall it was no more than 5% last year, but Just want to confirm if that was still the case currently. Thanks.

Yeah. Hey, Steven, let me take the first question and I'll turn it over to Brian to talk a little bit about CR revenue, CRO revenue and what percent that is. Um, clinical trial starts. Yeah, we, we certainly pay attention to that. It's one, one metric of many, but I just caution you from over-indexing on any single metric. We certainly don't do that. Um, you heard Peter talk a little bit about how we're insulated from some of the near term changes and clinical trial volumes as an example. So we don't over-index there. Obviously, over the long term, that matters. In the near term, it's not so important because most of our deals and our customers' buying patterns are more for enterprise capabilities than they are for clinical trial starts. So, yeah, we pay attention, but not a single metric is the most important. I'll turn it over to Brian to answer your second question on CRO revenue.

Yeah, so on the second part of your question around CRO revenue specifically, at Investor Day, as you saw, we embedded the CRO channel within top 20 enterprise and SMB. So it's a little bit harder for the year-over-year comparison. But the last time we disclosed it, it was about 5% of revenue, and it's not materially changed from that. Got it. Okay. All right. Thank you.

This concludes our Q&A session. I'll now turn the conference back over to Viva CEO, Peter Gassner, for closing remarks.

Thank you, everyone, for joining the call today, and thank you to our customers for your continued partnership and to the Viva team for your outstanding work in the quarter. Thank you.

This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.