Vornado Realty Trust

He trusts second quarter 2025 earnings call. My name is Michael and I will be your operator for today's call. This call is being recorded for replay purposes. All lines are in a listen only mode. Our speakers will address your questions at the end of the presentation during the question and answer session. At that time, please press star, then one on your touch tone phone. I will now turn the call over to Mr. Steve Borenstein, Executive Vice President and Corporation Council. Please go ahead.

Welcome to tornado Realty Trust second quarter earnings call. Yesterday afternoon, we issued our second quarter earnings release and filed our quarterly report on form 10Q with the Securities and Exchange Commission. These documents, as well as our supplemental financial information package are available on our website, .vno.com under the investor relation section. In these documents and during today's call, we will discuss certain non-GAP financial measures. Reconciliation of these measures to the most directly comparable GAP measures are included in our earnings release form 10Q and financial sublimation. Please be aware that statements made during this call may be being forward looking statements and actual results may differ materially from these statements due to a variety of risks, uncertainties and other factors. Please refer to our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including our annual report on form 10K for the year ended December 31, 2024 for more information regarding these risks and uncertainties. The call may include time sensitive information that may be accurate only as of today's date. The company does not undertake a duty to update any forward looking statements. On the call today for management for our opening comments are Stephen Ross, chairman and chief executive officer and Michael Franco, president and chief financial officer. Our senior team is also present and available for questions. I will now turn the call over to Stephen Ross.

Thank you, Steve, and good morning, everyone. Let me start by expressing our sorrow about the tragic and senseless shootings at 345 Park Avenue last week. Our deep condolences go out to the victims, families and friends. We have many friends in that building, in ownership and occupiers, and we stand with them as they deal with this terrible tragedy. To continue, here at Grenado, our business continues to be strong, is getting stronger, and I remain incredibly enthusiastic about our future prospects. Our stock performance leads the office sector to have increased 42% over the trailing 12 months, almost double the S&P 500. I was quite surprised that, broadly speaking, every other office week, whether East Coast or West Coast, including all the other New York office specialists, were negative during that period. We had an excellent quarter, and Michael will cover the results shortly. By excellent, I mean leasing, balance sheet, and pen, all excellent. Let me once again discuss what we see on the ground and our business strategy. We are a 90% New York-centric company. Actually, we are a 90% prime-pitch Manhattan-centric company. We do own a single large building in Chicago, the Mart, and a single complex in 555 California Street, the number one building in San Francisco. These two assets may be on the for sale list for the right deal at the right time. Manhattan is universally claimed to be the strongest real estate market in the country, and I mean the strongest by far. While Manhattan may have nearly 420 million square feet of office space, we actually compete in a much smaller 180 million square foot Class A better building market. Our clients are expanding, demand is strong and broad-based, and here's the punchline, available space continues to evaporate quickly. Replacement costs for a Class A tower in Manhattan has risen to call it $2,500 per square foot. With interest rates at six or six plus percent, rents in the 200s are now commonplace. Think about it, $100 rents were rare only a few years ago. I believe this math is telling us there will only be a trickle of new supply for the foreseeable future, at least through the end of the decade. Remember, it takes five years from start to deliver a new-build tower in New York. And that trickle of supply, however unlikely, will undoubtedly be spoken for and not create speculative space available to the market. Taken together, all this is the very definition of a land-worth market. With tight availability and Class A better buildings in the Manhattan and West Side corridor, and no new supply coming for the rest of the decade, I believe the next few years have the potential to be one of the strongest periods of rental growth we've seen in decades, and it's already started. That said, logically and for certain, values will increase as well. Here is our industry-leading leasing scorecard. During the first half of 2025, we leased 2.7 million square feet overall, of which 2.2 million square feet was Manhattan office. That includes the 1.1 million square foot master lease within 770 Broadway, largest New York office lease in 2019, which by the way absorbed 500,000 square feet of vacancy at that property. The reigning 1.1 million square feet of leasing during the first half was at $97 per square foot average starting rents, with -to-market of plus .7% gap and plus .7% cash. During the second quarter in Manhattan, we executed 27 deals totaling 1.5 million square feet, including NYU. Excluding NYU, the remaining 400,000 square feet of Manhattan office leasing for the quarter was at $101 per square foot starting rents, with -to-market of plus .8% gap and plus .7% cash. We continue to achieve the highest average rents in the city. This quarter leasing was 190,000 square feet in Penn and 210,000 square feet in our other Manhattan assets. Importantly, our leasing this quarter included 12 transactions for 183,000 square feet at Penn one, and an average starting rent of $101 per square foot, bringing occupancy here to 91%. Here's an interesting factoid. Since the start of physical development, we have leased 1.6 million square feet at Penn one, at average rents of $94. At Penn, we are handily exceeding both our initial underwriting and our increased underwriting. Here's another way to look at it, looking towards the future. Everyone is modeling large increases in tornadoes earnings as leases at Penn one and Penn two come online, as they should. This is all based on rents of, say, $100 per square foot, but our neighbors to the west are achieving $150 per square foot, and over time, so will we. Think about it, Penn one, Penn two, and Farley, together comprise five million square feet. So the math says every $10 a foot uptick in rents yields $50 million to the bottom line. And what's more, when the uptick, i.e. market rents, get to $150 per square foot on five million square feet, that's an increment of $250 million per year. Same store asset appreciation over time is the ticket to success in the property business. Tenants are expanding in the Penn District. As an example, in the last quarter, Samsung doubled its base at Penn one, and since its first 220,000 square foot lease signed in 2020, a major tech tenant at Penn 11 has expanded three more times, now occupying 460,000 square feet in that building. Last week, after the quarter ended, and not included in the leasing statistics, we announced the 203,000 square foot headquarters lease at Penn two with Verizon Communications, one of the world's leading telecommunications companies. Verizon now joins other top ten tenants, Madison Square Garden, Major League Soccer, and Universal Music Group at Penn two. We are, of course, delighted to welcome Verizon. Verizon's choice of Penn and their enthusiasm for their new home can best be described by lifting a quote from their press release by one of their senior executives. Quote, New York City isn't just where we work, it's who we are. Our employees deserve a workplace that is just as vibrant as our culture. Penn two is more than an office, it's a space designed to bring us together, to collaborate, to celebrate, to think boldly, to build the future side by side, close quote. The Verizon folks get it. This is a very important deal and continues to validate the product. This is a very important deal. Occupancy at Penn two is now 62% and we have multiple deals in the on deck circle which will keep our occupancy marching upward. The Penn district, our three block long city within the city continues to amaze and impress tenants and stakeholders. We sit atop the nexus of Pennsylvania Station and the New York City subway system adjacent to our good neighbors to the west, Manhattan West, and Hudson Yards. The three of us combined represent the new booming west side of Manhattan. At Penn we are creating a campus of multiple interconnected buildings under one ownership. We deliver exactly as we said we would and there is much more to come. As a starter, we are well along in the development process for a 475 unit rental residential project on our 30th West Beach site, caddy corner to the Moynihan Train Hall. Next we are going to transform as much as 700 front feet of tired old retail on both sides of 7th Avenue along 34th Street into attractive, modern, and exciting retail offerings. The gateway to Penn is 7th Avenue at 34th Street. This stretch across the street from Macy's used to be a top three location and returning to top three is our goal. As I said before, the Penn district will be a growth and just for a couple years to come with rising rents and future development projects including the Penn 15 site and potential residential opportunities. We also continue to add to our already impressive food offerings in the district with our newest restaurant, the Dynamo Room, which opens last month to great reviews. Avril will open at Farley in the fall. And our rooftop park at Penn to call the Perch, name the Perch, is the best spot in the city for view, food, gathering, or just chilling. Come see Penn for yourself. I invite you to come to Penn District anytime, but especially at happy hour, where you will see every seat in every restaurant and amenity, whether it's indoors or outdoors, filled with happy employees of our tenants. Our unmatched amenity package of 180,000 square feet is surely doing its job in spades to attract and delight our tenants. Our New York office leasing popular pipeline is robust with a total of 560,000 square feet of leases signed or in negotiations. Setting up the third quarter, plus more than one million square feet in various stages of proposal. As we announced on our last call, after two years of intense deliberation, the arbitration panel issued its ruling on the Penn One ground lease rent reset. The Penn One ground lease, as fully extended, goes to 2098. Days ago, Fodran Lessora filed at 11th hour Hail Mary motion in New York County Supreme Court to vacate the rent reset panel ground rent determination. We believe the motion is entirely without merit and intends to vigorously oppose it. We also completed the following financing transactions as we continue to bolster our liquidity and handle our debt maturities. In April, we completed a $450 million financing to 1535 Broadway using 407 million of net proceeds and partially redeem our retail JV equity on the asset. The preferred equity outstanding balance is now 1.079 billion down from 1.828 billion. In June, we completed a five year, 675 million refinancing of Independence Plaza, a joint venture in which we own a .1% ownership interest. In July, we completed a five year, $450 million refinancing of Penn 11, paying down this previous loan by 50 billion. We have meaningfully delivered our balance sheet over the past couple of quarters. Since the beginning of the year, we have generated 1.5 billion of net proceeds from sale, financing, and the NYU deal. Paid down 965 million of debt and increased our cash by 540 billion. Our cash balances are now 1.36 billion and together with our undrawn credit lines of 1.56 billion, we have immediate liquidity of 2.9 billion. Our net debt to EBITDA metric has improved by 1.4 turns to 7.2 times from 8.6 times. And our fixed charge coverage ratio, as expected, is steadily rising. Please see page 23 of our financial supplement for details. Finally, we remain very excited about the redevelopment of 350 Park Avenue as Citadel as our anchor tenant and Ken Griffin as our 60-biz partner. The process to create this grand foster and partner's design 1.8 million square foot tower on the best side of Park Avenue has begun and this new building will stand out as being truly best in class. DDs are complete, i.e. the building is basically designed and CDs are progressing. Last month, the City Planning Commission voted to approve the project and we expect the final new look approval from the City Council this fall. Citadel is currently building out their interim swing space which will allow us to commence demolition of the existing 350 Park Avenue building in spring. Thank you all for listening and now over to Michael to cover our finances.

Thank you, Steve and good morning everyone. Second quarter comparable FFO was 56 cents per share which beat analyst consensus of 53 cents per share and essentially flat compared to last year's second quarter. We have lower net interest income from retail preferred repayments and lower NOI from asset sales offset by lower real estate taxes at the mart that have taxed tenant reimbursements. We have provided a quarter over quarter bridge on page two of our earnings release and on page six of our financial supplement. In addition, our cash NOI is lower this quarter primarily due to the previously discussed one time Penn One ground rent true up payment made in April and free rent associated with recently commenced leases from backfilling the previously known move outs. On our last earnings call, we said that we expected 2025 comparable FFO to be essentially flat compared to 2024 comparable FFO, $2.26 per share. This is still a good assumption as we sit here today. As previously discussed, we still expect the full positive impact of the lease up of Penn One and Penn Two in 2027 resulting in significant earnings growth by 2027. New York office occupancy increased this quarter to .7% from .4% last quarter primarily due to the full building master lease at 770 Broadway. As we continue to execute on our leasing pipeline, we anticipate that our occupancy will increase into the low 90s over the next year or so. Lastly, the financing markets are liquid and we have been active in refinancing our 2025 maturities. On top of the recent Independence Plaza and Penn 11 refinancings, we have several others in the works. The investment sales market is also picking up as the financing markets recover and as confidence in New York City's recovery grows. With that,

I'll turn it over to the operator for Q&A.

Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. If you have a question, please press star then one on your touchtone phone. If you wish to be removed from the queue, please press star then two. If you are using a speaker phone, you may need to pick up the handset first before pressing the numbers. Once again, if you have a question, please press star then one on your touchtone phone. Each caller will be allowed to ask a question and a follow-up question before we move on to the next caller. Steve Sackwa from Evercore ISI is on the line with the question. Please go ahead.

Yes, thanks, good morning. Steve, I guess I wanted to tie two comments together. You said Penn 2 was 62% occupied with multiple deals in the on-deck circle. Then you talked about the LOIs of 560,000 feet plus a million of proposals. So can you just maybe help us understand how much of that sort of pending activity is geared towards Penn 2 and how much is for the rest of the New York City portfolio?

Glenn, you wanna take that?

Sure, good morning, Steve, it's Glenn. So of the 560,000 feet, those are leases out in negotiation, the Verizon lease is included in the 560. In our pipeline, we have about 1.4 million feet in the pipeline in various lease proposal stages, and about 50% of that is at Penn 2. That's the breakdown.

Great, and then for my follow-up, Steve, you made some comments early on about the Mart and 555 California sort of being for sale at the right price, and I feel like that's maybe a little bit of a shift or change in your thinking. So maybe could you just expound upon that, and is your goal to really sort of get back to being just kind of a pure New York City company in the shorter versus longer term?

Steve, hi, how are you? We've worked very hard to focus the company, stick to our knitting, and focus on the financial and our stock price. So our mission is to increase our stock price. That's our sole mission. We think that those two assets are valuable. We think one of them is free and clear, the other one has some financing on it. We think that 555 California is the single best asset in San Francisco. San Francisco is in a recovery phase now, which we think is gonna be very dramatic. So as I said, those two assets we will sell for the right price at the right timing. They're not sacred, by the way, nothing is sacred. So we look upon them as a financial asset, and we will do what we think is the best financial outcome for the company.

Great, thank you.

And your next question comes from Floris Vandecombe with Ladenburg Thalmann, please go ahead.

Hey, thanks, guys. Maybe if you can talk a little bit about your sign not open pipeline. You talked about your occupancy, your lease occupancy being around, I think, .2% in New York. What's the physical occupancy, and how much rent is coming online over the next, presumably 12 months by the time that becomes activated?

Floris, good morning, it's Michael. Welcome back, and congrats on your new position. In terms of the sign, but not commence, we're gonna have to come back to you on that number. I don't wanna give you a guest man swag, and we'll have to come back on that. But obviously, with Verizon sign the occupancy number, we'll continue to migrate up, close to 88%. Obviously, there's ins and outs. We continue to believe that we'll be north of 90 as we get in the next year. And that income generally, I think we've been consistent on this point, will, from an FFO standpoint, kick in heavily in 2027. So, 26 continues to be a year where we have the leased sign, but they don't kick in. 27, I think you're gonna see a significant increase. And that, I think, is consistent with the last couple quarters. But in terms of specific dollars, I have to come back to you

on that. Thanks, Michael. And maybe if I can ask one follow-up. I was sort of, Steve, you piqued my interest about the upside potential in your Penn District. I think in the past, you've talked about sort of stabilized NOI at around 325. How do you see that changing, or how much has that changed over the past six months based on market rents going higher? And obviously, your lease activity at Penn II in particular.

Forrest, hi. I couldn't be more enthusiastic about what we're doing at Penn and what Penn's value accretion to the company will be over time. So, right now, we are leasing Penn I and Penn II. And we predicted that the market rents would be, that we would achieve $100 of rent. We're achieving that, and we're achieving more. So, we're doing better than our underwriting. But the interesting thing is that our neighbors are getting $150 a foot and more. So, we believe that over time, we will also, in Penn I, Penn II, and whatever other buildings we build, we'll be able to achieve rents that will be approximately, maybe just a pinch below those buildings. So, if you think about it, if you look at real estate as a, not as a quarter to the quarter business, but as a five-year planning cycle or something like that, if the market rents in Penn go up on the five million square feet that we already have by $10 a foot, that increment is $50 million to the bottom line. That's 20 cents a share, that's a fairly big number. If they should go up by $50 a foot, from 100 to 150, over time, the company will realize a $250 million increase in its income. Now, there's gonna be some expenses, some minor expenses about that. Real estate taxes will go up marginally, but the numbers are very big. So, what I'm saying is, the best part of the real estate business is great assets over time. And we believe that the buildings that we now have are under market, so that as the market appreciates it, as the market comes to our buildings, these buildings will get more and more valuable each year.

So, Steve, as you think about that, is there a possibility that the Penn District could generate maybe up to 400 million of NOI in five years' time? Easily.

By the way, and that would be, that's with no new construction, no new buildings. The existing inventory that we have now, which you're saying is gonna go up by $100 million over three or four years? Sure.

Thanks.

And your next question comes from John Kim with BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Good morning. I know there's a few different occupancy numbers out there, but just focusing on your occupancy stats on page 32, New York occupancy went up 85 to 85.2%, which is a sequential improvement, which is great, but it is lower than the .2% that you noted post the NYU lease last quarter. So I was wondering what the headwinds were this quarter that brought that down 100 basis points or so.

You know, I think, John, good morning. You know, I think a couple things. One is, I think that's an area of New York number office and retail. I think the office numbers are generally consistent with what we said. There's a little bit of timing, and uprising got signed a few days after the quarter. So obviously if that had happened before, we would have been above even what we said last time. So a little bit of timing. I think the biggest impact there was retail. You know, we had two forever 21 leases at 1540 and 435.7, where they were paying low rent. The company obviously went bankrupt again, and they vacated those stores, and that knocked off, I think, about seven percentage points off the retail occupancy, which in total took us to the area number you see there. So it wasn't a lot of rent coming out of either one of those stores. They were frankly placeholders, particularly Penn, until we had a, really sort of redeveloped that whole stretch, as Steve alluded to in his remarks, but from a occupancy standpoint, I think that was the biggest driver.

And then on 555's calendar mark, Steve, you talked about potentially selling this. I wanted to see if you had any more commentary on timing, if this is something that could be listed in the next 12 months. And how should we think about use of proceeds between developments, acquisitions, and reduction of debt? We did notice that you provided new disclosure on Net Debt Deep Adda, so I'm wondering if that's a KPI gap, going forward as far as maintaining or lowering Net Debt Deep Adda.

On the first question, we are not listing those buildings in the next year or whatever. If we sell those buildings, it will probably be an opportunistic incoming where somebody wants them. But what I'm saying is, is we're not actively marketing the buildings, and we have no prediction on timing, but they are available if the deal is correct, and the timing is correct. The other half of your question was what, sir?

Use of proceeds. Is the leverage metric. John, yeah, so again, to Steve's point, nothing is imminent, but for the right price, we'll transact. And at the time, we'll assess the best way to utilize that capital, whether it's to pay down debt, whether it's to deploy those into development, et cetera. Appreciate you recognizing the good work we've done on the leverage front. We're proud of that. We've worked hard to get our leverage debt down. We think we're now quickly moving to the head of the class there, and so we wanna continue that. So, but when something is more right, then we'll assess exactly how we'll utilize those proceeds.

I wanna tack onto what Michael said. One of the very important things that happened over the last short period of time is the improvement in our balance sheet. Taking our leverage ratio down by 1.4 turns is a really big thing. Rebuilding our cash balances, having lots of availability, and having a very strong balance sheet is one of the important things that we do, and I'm very proud of what the team has accomplished over the last period of time. I think it's a really big step.

Thank you. And the next question comes from Dylan Verzinski with Green Street. Please go ahead.

Hi, guys. Thanks for taking the question. Just can you sort of talk about, I know you guys talked about how strong the leasing pipeline is. Obviously, you mentioned occupancy will continue to increase in the low 90s sometime next year, but can you guys talk about just the ability to push net effective rents in that environment in strong backdrop?

Yeah, why don't I start, Glen, jump in here. If you look at the current environment in the marketplace, whether it's Park Avenue, Sixth Avenue, et cetera, vacancy rates are generally under 10% for Class A buildings, probably Park Avenue under five. In general, citywide, in Midtown, on the west side, very tight, and I think in terms of large blocks of space, I think there's less than a handful of a couple hundred thousand feet or larger, Penn 2 being one of those, and I think Wiley View is the best of those. So, Steve talked about we're the landlord's market, and we certainly feel that, I think tenants feel that, there's strong demand in the marketplace. A number of tenants that are focused on expiries and a number of years out, they're worried about whether they're gonna be able to either consolidate in a single location, have enough expansion space, et cetera. So, the dynamics have shifted, and we are, I would say, weekly basis evaluating our space and trying to determine how much we can push rents, and we're gonna continue to push rents I think across the board. We've done it aggressively on Park, we're doing it in other buildings in Midtown, and we're doing it in Penn. I think that what you're hearing and what you're seeing in terms of the stats is a continued movement to push up rents there, where I think we started at Penn 1 in the mid-80s, maybe $90, and now we're achieving rents north of 100. We're gonna continue to push those same on Penn 2. So, we're pretty optimistic in terms of what's gonna happen to rental rate growth, just given the lack of quality space available and the demand side we're seeing. So, I think we have the potential to see growth rates we haven't seen in quite some time, and we're gonna push. We're gonna find the resistance level as we move out here.

That's helpful, and then I guess one last one for me. You guys able to talk about the A-node and B-node investments you guys have did?

You know, it's on a site in Midtown. It's a note that we've linked into in two phases. It's a high-quality site, and it can go either way. We're on one hand, we might just collect the coupon and learn a reasonable return relative to what we could earn in cash, and alternatively, it could be an opportunity to own the asset and capitalize on the opportunity. So, it could go either way, but we just view it as if it's a high-quality asset. We're happy if we earn the return, and they leverage into a broader opportunity, and that's as much as we can say right now.

Appreciate it.

And your next question comes from Seth Berge with Citi. Please go ahead.

Hi, thanks for taking my question. You know, I think on the last call, you spoke to kind of hitting, you know, the 80% target for PEN-2 by year end. I guess just given the recent leasing activity, and it sounds like after, you know, the 1.4 billion development pipeline is kind of on leases out on PEN-2, do you think you could kind of exceed that target?

I doubt it. Hi, it's Glenn.

No, Glenn, I said I doubt it. The question is, can we exceed 80% that I'm saying I doubt it? Go ahead, Glenn.

I mean, look, we're feeling very good about where we are on PEN-2. We'll feel we'll get there. I will say we're being patient. We're being smart. I might even say we're being a little choosy in terms of our credit profile, our tenant mix, and we do keep looking at our price increasing it. So we're not rushing just to lease space. That's not what we do. So while we think we'll get there, we're being careful and smart about our strategy. We're in it for the long term, not for the short term statistics.

Well said, Glenn. And your next question comes from Alexander Goldfarb

with Piper Sandler. Please go ahead.

Hey, good morning and congrats to you guys on the Verizon deal. So that was nice to see. Glenn, you partially answered my question on the leasing X and YU. It sounds like you guys are choosier on the types of deals that you're doing, especially in this market. But what stood out in the quarter is X and YU, the average lease term was just 6.8 years, which given, you know, CBD leasing would expect that longer. So can you just give us a little bit more color? Clearly you're on for big whale of deals. But on the smaller deals, can you just give a context of the types of tenants and space and tenure? I mean, this is a really hard question. because again, would expect deals to be longer than averaging 6.8 years.

Of course. Hi Alex. So I look at it, you know, for the full year, the half year, thus far our average is 12 years on 1.1 million feet of leasing outside of NYU. Of course, for the quarter, it's an outlier. This quarter, it was a mix of large renewals that were less than 10 years with a lot of pre-bill deals at Penn One and other buildings that are multi-tenant, like the Fuller Building and others. So it was an odd mix of leasing this quarter. I certainly would not say there will be a trend of this type of average lease term, particularly, you know us and you know our averages are normally at least 10 years. It's an outlier and I'm not concerned at all.

Okay. The second question is Steve. I appreciate your comments on the cash balance for Vornado, but when we look at Alexander's, it seems to be the inverse in the sense of the dividend overpayment, the cash needs for the Bloomberg in 2029, replacing Home Depot. So can you just help us understand the dividend overpayment relative to the cash balance relative to how we should think about Alexander's on a go-forward basis?

This is a Vornado call. I think it's inappropriate to get into Alexander's. We had this conversation last quarter, as I remember. There are things going on at Alexander's that you don't know about, and as a result of that, you know, I quibble with your analysis. Alexander's is going to be just fine.

Okay. I appreciate that, Steve. Thank you.

Just to clarify, just a little bit more. I mean, there are some assets that are going to be sold at Alexander's, which will probably surprise you greatly.

I like surprises, so I appreciate your time, Steve. Thank you.

Thank you.

And your next question comes from Gina Golan with Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Good morning. Maybe just following up on the retail leasing environment, can you talk a little bit more about the timing around the vision for the 34th Street corridor and then the potential timing of backfilling the Forever 21 space?

Hi. Thanks. This is a long-term activity. We have held that space off the mark. Well, first of all, let's talk about the quality of the real estate. 34th Street, over the years, has been one of the top two or three shopping streets in Manhattan. The subway stations are the second busiest and the third busiest in the entire system. The footfall is amazing. The traffic is getting – accelerating now with all of the office buildings that have been built in the district. And when you look at the transportation system, the transportation system really is at 7th Avenue and 33rd Street and 6th Avenue and 33rd Street. So all of the buildings to the west, the people, in order to get into the transportation system, basically come east into our neighborhood. So we're very enthusiastic about the quality of the retail. The street has gotten the – dare I say shabby. We have held lots of space, maybe even all the space off the market, waiting for the right timing. The timing is now. So what I said was that we're going to take it looks like it's 700 front feet. 700 front feet is basically three and a half blocks. Nobody has that kind of concentration under one ownership, so we're very excited about the opportunity. With respect to when the Forever 21 space gets released, it may be reconfigured. And I really can't predict what the timing is going to be. It will undoubtedly be a different building, and it will take some time and be patient with us. But what's going to happen is going to be a great result.

Great. Thank you, Steve. And a question for Michael. Thank you for the comments on the comparable FFO for this year versus last. But can you help us think about kind of the revenue ramp at the end of the year, just trying to help us kind of think about the full impact of Penn 1 and Penn 2 being in 2027, but kind of how will that trend quarter to quarter?

Sounds like you're asking for guidance, which we don't give. I think it will build over those quarters, but it's going to be, you know, as we think about both Penn and Penn 2, it's going to be more back-ended there. But I don't think, and I'll start building a little more towards fourth quarter this year and then in the next year, but I think most of it is going to happen in 2027 from a run rate standpoint. So I don't want to give you a 26 prediction here today. You know, we haven't done our budgets yet. Obviously, the market's moving positively. We'll see where we end up. But I think most of that will hit, you know, it's going to be a pretty steep growth from 26 to 27.

Great. Thank you.

And your next question comes from Vikram Alhotra with Mizuho. Please go ahead.

Thanks so much for doing the question. Michael, I guess I want to just get some more color on that last few comments. You obviously talked about the 27 growth. We're not looking for a number for 26, but just are there any big moving pieces we should be aware of as we model this out? Like anything that will really, I guess, depress 26 or is it just a step function change as we go into it from 26 to 27?

I think it's largely just step function. You know, I don't think it's anything unusual. I mean, look, we have space releasing up really across the board, both New York, some space in California, Chicago. You know, we've got activity on the retail area that will kick in as well. So I think generally across the board, nothing unusual, but largely, as I said, just given timing of when we sign those leases, stepping heavily.

Okay. So no big move-outs or like interest expense, I guess, any swaps or anything expiring that like pressure 26 relative to 25 before we get a step up in 27?

No, I mean, look, it's, you know, in terms of move-outs, I mean, you know, we're in the leasing business, right? And there's going to be a certain amount of tenants that move out, certain amounts you keep, certain amounts that grow, certain contracts. I think we're more in the growth and contract right now. But, you know, apparently there's always some level of move-out. So, you know, in the York office, you know, you're going to have, we'll just have to see what sort of comes about over the course of the next year. I will say on the interest expense side, and I think we talked about this on the last quarter, you know, I think we're generally on the downhill trajectory on that. You know, we had been fairly well hedged. You know, we're now, A, between delivering the balance sheet. I think we're generally rolling over assets, you know, I would say flat in terms of, you know, interest, you know, maybe a little bit down, maybe a little bit up, but generally flat. But with less debt, you know, the interest expense is coming down. So, you know, and if short-term rates come down, that will help a little bit more. So I think we're on the backside on the interest front.

Think about it. Hang on for a minute. Think about it from the big picture point of view. We operate our business, 90% of our business, in the single best market in the country by far. We are in the best building category, which is a smaller market than the entirety. It's a 180 million square foot market. The vacancies in that market, our customers are expanding, our customers are doing well. The demand for space is robust, aggressive in the market that we serve. Vacancies are evaporating. The markets are getting tighter. So that all orders to a better business and shareholder value creation. So that's where we are.

Okay. I just wanted to clarify. So I guess Steve, you mentioned, you know, San Francisco like to come back very, very, I guess, I don't know if it was the word ferocious, and then obviously New York doing very well. I'm just wondering, like, does this create an opportunity for tornado to use some capital, you know, to buy assets, invest in debt? I know you're paying down debt, but just like what are the investment opportunities today for tornado?

The answer is capital allocation is probably the single most important thing that we have to do. And we are going to be very vigorous and very disciplined in what we do. We look at everything that comes up and we invest cautiously, and we invest aggressively when we think there's something that creates real shareholder value. So I don't have anything in the way of predictions for you other than the fact that we are very responsible in our capital allocation.

And the next question comes from Caitlin Burrows with Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Hi. Good morning. Earlier somebody asked about net effective rents, and you talked about pushing rents across New York City. I guess on the Tenant Improvement and Leasing Commission side, you show it as a percent of initial rent, and it's up in New York City for the second, sorry, for QQ on the first half to like 12 to 13 percent of initial rent. So I was wondering, would you say that 2025 outcome is a result of something in particular, or is that just the reality of leasing today, and what will it take for that to change?

I don't know if they... Go ahead, Glenn.

I was just going to say that the TIs have stabilized, haven't come down yet, but we are seeing free rent come down, which is not in that percentage. But we expect, you know, as things tighten, that the TIs will eventually come down. But free rent certainly is starting to come down in our dealmaking with rents rising. So I think that's a great start to the net effective story strengthening for owners like us, for sure.

Got it. Okay. And then I was wondering if you could just give any update on your dividend thoughts as it relates either to 2025 or just broadly in having a quarterly dividend reinstated.

Good morning, Caitlin. So on the dividend front, obviously, you know, that's a board decision. And we'll meet with the board, discuss it with the board as we get at year end. I would say a couple of things, though. You know, given the positive trends in the business, you know, and where taxable income is expected to be, and, you know, there's still things that could move it around, you know, in a number of different ways, including, you know, some...you see us sell a couple of small assets, et cetera. But I would say as we get towards year end, you know, our expectations, given the trends, are, you know, at a minimum, we think we'll pay as much as we paid last year, which was 74 cents a share. So that's for 2025. And again, you know, we'll get with the board at year end. You know, I think as we look out, and I think Steve made this comment maybe a couple quarters ago, you know, as the environment heals, we'll look towards more of a regular dividend. And I think that's something we'll also look hard at at year end and, you know, get back to our more normalized, you know, quarterly dividend, whether that results in any different outcomes in terms of total, you know, I can't comment on that. But I think certainly as we enter this year, you know, no less than last year the expectation. And, you know, again, given the positive trends, you know, we think that the dividend, you know, we'll start growing over time, particularly as we get into that, you know, 2027, you know, is going to get an increase in earnings.

Thanks.

And your next question comes from Ronald Camden with Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Hey, I just got two quick ones. Just on the, going back to the same story on OI and some of the call outs, just wondering if any high level thoughts as you sort of anniversary this period in 26 or 27, just any sort of color and where that same store, you know, could look like or how we should think about it without

asking for guidance? You know,

I think that, okay, in the .O.I. we got a lot going on because, obviously, 2770 comes out and there now we obviously paid off the debt too. But like I think as we get to particularly next year, you know, we'll start seeing positive same story on OI and beyond. I can't give you the percentages yet. But, you know, again, just given the leasing pipeline, we expect that that will be the case.

Makes sense. And then my second question, just some updated thoughts. I mean, I think the Hotel Penn land site, some of the activity on sort of Fifth Avenue and retail monetization, just curious if you can give us a pulse on those assets and how you're thinking through about potential monetization there or what you're hearing.

Thanks. The Penn 15 site is, I believe, the single best site in the West New York market. Obviously, it will require a new build. A new build now is, as I said in my prepared remarks, the escalation in cost of the new build is fairly dramatic. So we will, we're trolling for tenants. We talk, we see every large requirement that comes along. And when the right tenant comes along, we will make a deal and develop the land. The timing on that is uncertain, but it certainly will not be imminent or quick.

And

your next question comes from

Brendan Lynch with Barclays. Please go ahead.

Great. Thanks for taking my question. As you guys mentioned, San Francisco is showing broad sense of improvement and demand. Can you give us an update on progress for renewing or releasing some of the upcoming explorations at 555

California? Glenn, do you want to take that?

I'm sorry. Just in San Francisco a few days ago, things are markedly improved. The streets feel good, safer, cleaner. Buildings are busier. And the good news is leasing is starting to take up and improve. It feels a lot like New York, I'd say, probably 18 months ago or so where things are starting to happen in a positive way. The beat is better. The brokers are smiling a little bit all of a sudden. So it all feels good. You know, we've just completed a huge run of leasing. They're about 600,000 feet. We have some vacancy to contend with right now, 100,000 feet in bits and parts. And we have a couple tenants moving on next year. We have action on everything. Our tour volume is great, almost daily in the building. Everyone is coming through. And the building continues to outperform everybody by a long shot. The best tenants with the highest rents are all coming to 555. We feel great about our prospects. But overall, the market seems to be coming on now. The mayor has done an excellent job improving the environment, working well with landlords like us and with our tenant base. So we feel like things are signaling to improvement and strength.

Great. Thanks. That's helpful. And maybe more broadly on the demand picture, our checks with brokers have suggested that a lot of the demand that they've seen in recent quarters has reflected real-time needs and urgency among tenants versus some more traditional longer-term capacity planning needs that would have been more of a characteristic of the past cycles. Have you seen any shift in recent quarters in how the tenant base is approaching their need for space in terms of real-time needs versus longer-term planning?

Glenn,

that's you. Sure, it's Glenn. So Verizon is a perfect example. You know, it's a deal that started percolating to us in mid-June and closed at the end of July. That's fast. We love that. Tenants decided to move their headquarters, acted quickly, concisely, perfectly, and smoothly. So that's something we see. We have other activity at Penn2, Penn1, and elsewhere in the portfolio similar, where tenants are now coming quickly. It's not as much of our lease expires in two years or three years or four years. It's the action that we like, a landlord's market type of action. And a lot of it is both relocation and expansion. There's a lot of expansion, particularly in New York right now, where we're seeing signs of growth and people are acting very quickly. And even in some cases, we have tenants now battling for space throughout the portfolio. So I think your comment is on cue in terms of what we're seeing.

Great.

Thanks,

Glenn. And the next question is a follow-up from Alexander Goldfarb with Piper Sandler. Please go ahead.

Hey, and thank you. Glenn and Steve, I just want to go back. Steve, you mentioned $100 in place. I think it was in place in Penn that could go to $150 if you guys get the same rents as your neighbors to the West. But I thought the new deals that you were signing were in sort of the $120, $130 range. I thought that's where the new deals are commanding. So maybe I'm wrong, but maybe you can just provide a little perspective versus what are in place rents at the Penn, Penn 1, Penn 2, versus where you guys are signing rents. As I said, I thought your signed rents had been moving up steadily.

Glenn, you want to handle that for a minute? Certainly we're moving steadily up. As Michael said, we were in the 80s and the 90s, now in the 100s. That's on average. We, of course, have seen deals well into the 100s, the 110s, the 120s, the 130s. So we are certainly seeing -to-month improvement, rising rates. We expect that to continue. So our average rents have risen -to-quarter. And we're seeing deals well into the 100s now. You're correct, Alex.

Okay, cool. Thank you. Thank you.

This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Steve Roth for any closing remarks.

Thank you for joining us today, everybody. And we continue to be very excited about a lot of things. We're very excited about Penn, obviously. We're very, very proud of what we've done with our balance sheet over the last couple of quarters. And business is actually pretty terrific. We'll see you next quarter. Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.