Venator Materials PLC Ordinary Shares

Good day and welcome to the Venezuelan Materials Third Quarter 2022 Earnings Conference Call. All participants will be in a listen-only mode. Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To ask a question, you may press star then one on a touch-tone phone. To withdraw your question, please press star then two. Please note, this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Kate Robertson, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Thank you, Betsy, and good morning, everyone. I am Kate Robertson, Investor Relations for Venator Materials. Welcome to Venator's third quarter 2022 earnings call. Joining us on the call today are Simon Turner, President and CEO, and Kurt Ogden, Executive Vice President and CFO. This morning, we released our earnings for the third quarter 2022 via press release and posted the release and accompanying slides to our website at venatorcorp.com. During this call, we may make statements about our projections or expectations for the future. All such statements are forward-looking and while they reflect our current expectations, they involve risks and uncertainties and are not guarantees of future performance. You should review our annual report on Form 20S for the year ended December 31st, 2021, quarterly reports on Form 6K and our other filings with the SEC for more information regarding the factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from these projections or expectations. We do not plan on publicly updating or revising any forward-looking statements during the quarter. We will also refer to non-GAAP financial measures such as EBITDA, adjusted EBITDA, adjusted net income, free cash flow, and net debt. You can find reconciliations to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures in our earnings relief, which has been posted to our website at www.venetocorp.com. I would now like to turn the call over to Simon.

Thank you, Kate, and welcome everyone to our third quarter 2022 earnings call. Beginning on slide three, macroeconomic uncertainty increased throughout the third quarter, and we experienced a meaningful reduction in demand for our TR2 products sold in Europe and APAC. Energy market prices reached record highs, and other cost inflation continued to increase. Total company adjusted EBITDA in the third quarter was a negative 8 million compared to 61 million in the second quarter and 48 million in the prior year period. Turning to slide four on our titanium dioxide segment. Adjusted EBITDA for our CO2 segment was negative 5 million in the third quarter 2022, compared to 49 million in the second quarter and 54 million in the prior year period. The third quarter started with weak demand in APAC, followed by softening demand in Europe. The decline in demand accelerated throughout the quarter, and we exited the quarter with weak demand in both regions. Demand declined across most end markets, principally as a result of low consumer confidence and China's zero COVID policy. In contrast, our North American sales volumes remained healthy throughout the quarter. In local currency, average tier O2 selling in prices increased 1% sequentially and 19% compared to the prior year period. We continue to hold monthly pricing reviews of our customers as part of our customer-tailored approach. We have seen a decline in Chinese TO2 exports globally throughout the third quarter, and exports to Europe are at the lowest level seen for many years. Throughout the third quarter, energy continued to be volatile and market rates reached record highs. Compared to the second quarter, the higher energy costs coupled with significantly lower volumes drove a negative EBITDA result for our German TO2 facilities. In the near term, visibility into product demand remains limited. By region, we see APAC as the weakest market, with Europe Next and North America the strongest. Despite healthy North American demand throughout the third quarter, we have seen signs of softening in the fourth quarter. Based on our current order book and the demand environment, we expect TIO2 fourth quarter sales volumes to be lower than the third quarter by up to 20% compared to the third quarter. In the fourth quarter, more than 50% of our energy usage is under fixed contracts, with the remainder subject to market rates. In response to the meaningful decline in demand, we implemented a range of strong mitigation actions. During the fourth quarter, we have further moderated certain manufacturing facilities, including temporarily stopping production at our Erdingen and Juesburg, Germany, manufacturing facilities. In Germany, we are utilizing government furlough schemes to help mitigate the impact of the unabsorbed fixed costs. Looking ahead to 2023, we expect to see demand starting to recover during the first quarter and progressing in the second quarter. We also expect to see some relief on the cost of raw materials and energy costs, lower due to government relief schemes from the European countries in which we operate. Once the government energy release schemes are enacted, we expect the benefit to provide significant offset to the roll off of our 2022 energy hedges. I would like to provide a status update on our Scarlino TO2 facility in Italy. As a reminder, our Scarlino facility generates gypsum as a byproduct of the manufacturing process, which has been landfilled on site and also transported for use in the reclamation of an EMI former quarry owned and operated by third parties. During the second quarter, we suspended two thirds of the production from this site to preserve our remaining available landfill capacity. By combining the remaining capacity at the Montioni Reclamation Project, currently approved onsite landfill capacity, and capacity are yet to be approved third party commercial landfill, we believe we have capacity for gypsum storage into the second quarter of 2023 at the current one stream operating rates. As a result of the lower demand environment, we may further reduce production at our Squalino facility. During this time, we continue our efforts to work with Italian government authorities for the authorization of continued gypsum disposal. We remain hopeful that authorizations will be granted. Otherwise, we may be compelled to close the site entirely. We continue to explore all options to avoid that outcome. Turning to slide five on our performance additive segments. Our performance additive segment delivered 9 million of adjusted EBITDA in the third quarter of 2022, compared with 19 million in the prior quarter and 5 million in the prior year period. The segment has performed well under challenging conditions. Sales volumes decreased 6% sequentially and 8% compared to the prior year period, primarily due to lower construction demand within our color pigments business. We have seen similar regional demand trends in performance additives as with TO2. However, the business has been more resilient to the macro environment. Energy and raw material cost inflation continued to be a headwind during the third quarter and were partially offset by higher average selling price of 3% in local currency sequentially. Notwithstanding a healthy demand environment for our functional additives products, we expect a significant decline in sales volumes as we have temporarily suspended production at our Duisburg, Germany, TO2 and functional additive facility in response to lower TO2 demand and high energy costs. We continue our monthly pricing reviews of customers to mitigate the ongoing impact of energy and raw material cost inflation. This morning, we announced that we have signed a definitive agreement to divest the iron oxide business from within-color pigments to Cafe Industries for an enterprise value of 140 million. We believe that Cafe will be an excellent long-term strategic owner of the business going forward. The transaction is expected to close by the end of the first quarter in 2023. The iron oxide business represents the majority of the color pigments business. We will continue to own and operate the ultramarine blue and dryers elements of the business. In the near term, This transaction will bolster our liquidity and allow us to focus on our strategic assets. Turning to slide six, we are implementing cost austerity measures across our business in response to the challenging business environment. By the end of 2024, we expect actions to be in place to deliver the full cost reduction program benefits to deliver 50 million EBITDA compared to 2022. These actions, which permanently reduce costs, include reduction of SG&A headcounts and discretionary spend, lower manufacturing fixed costs, and manufacturing improvement. We expect cash costs to deliver the program of approximately 30 million spread over the next couple of years. I will now pass the call over to Kurt to discuss our adjusted EBITDA averages.

Thanks, Simon. Let's go ahead and turn to slide number seven. Our total adjusted EBITDA decreased by $69 million compared to the prior quarter. The decrease was due to a meaningful decline in sales volumes, primarily from within our TO2 segment. We also saw higher energy and raw material costs, which were partially offset by lower manufacturing fixed costs. Price mix was a benefit of $1 million as we continue monthly price discussions with our Compared to the prior year, our total adjusted EBITDA decreased by 56 million. We successfully offset higher cost of goods sold that resulted primarily from higher energy costs with higher selling prices. However, the impact from the combination of lower sales volumes was overwhelming. Turning to slide eight and our cash flow considerations. Liquidity at the end of the third quarter totaled 278 million. This consisted of $45 million in cash and $233 million available under our ABL facility. We are aggressively taking actions to preserve cash and bolster our liquidity. Throughout the quarter, we opportunistically took advantage of the strong U.S. dollar and through multiple transactions, monetized and reentered into new cross-currency swaps. This resulted in a $16 million cash benefit in the quarter and a $24 million benefit year to date. We reduced our expected 2022 capital expenditures by $20 million to $70 million, which primarily represents maintenance spend. We have intensified efforts to manage our working capital. In response to weaker demand, we have moderated certain manufacturing facilities, which should lead to lower finished goods inventory levels in the fourth quarter. We have also reviewed TO2 feedstock shipments with our suppliers and aligned remaining 2022 shipments to our expected production levels. Importantly, we expect working capital to be a source of liquidity in the fourth quarter as we reduce our inventory levels. During October, we completed a $51 million sell-leaseback transaction of our iron oxide color pigments facility in Los Angeles, California, and collected cash of approximately $42 million in net proceeds after $9 million of withholding for taxes and expenses. In addition, earlier today, we entered into a definitive agreement to sell our iron oxide business from within our colored pigments business to Cafe Industries for an enterprise value of $140 million. In addition to these transactions, we continue to look for other ways to unlock value from within our business. I will turn the time back over to Simon. Thanks, Kit.

Business conditions were challenging throughout the third quarter due to weak TO2 demand in Europe and APAC, and visibility into near-term product demand is low. Based on our current order book, demand weakness continued into the fourth quarter in Europe and APAC, and we have started to see some softening in North America. We expect sales volumes in the fourth quarter to be lower than the third quarter, which will result in lower fourth quarter EBITDA, Additionally, energy continues to be volatile in Europe. Given the uncertainty ahead, we are focusing our actions on those within our control, and we have implemented a comprehensive range of actions to manage those areas. Firstly, we moderated certain manufacturing facilities and reduced orders for raw materials to control at inventory levels. We have reduced costs at our manufacturing facilities where possible, and we are utilizing government furlough schemes to reduce and absorb fixed costs. We have implemented a robust global cost reduction program, which would deliver 50 million of annualized savings by the end of 2024. These savings will result from lower SG&A costs, lower manufacturing fixed costs, and improvements from a range of actions at our manufacturing facilities. While we expect energy volatility to continue, we operate in countries which have announced government energy relief schemes. In 2023, we expect these schemes to provide a significant offset to the expiration of our 2022 energy hedges. In order to bolster liquidity, we monetized approximately $24 million through multiple cross-currency swap transactions, and we recently completed a sale-leaseback transaction for $51 million. and we signed an agreement to sell our iron oxide business to CAFE for 140 million of enterprise value. As Kurt mentioned, we continue to look for other opportunities to unlock value from within our business. Although we expect lower EBITDA in the fourth quarter, as a result of the immediate actions, we expect cash flow to be positive as a result of working capital release and proceeds received from the sale-leaseback transaction. Additionally, We have engaged Alvarez and Marcel to advise us on a range of operational and financial actions and objectives to reduce costs, improve liquidity, and to optimize our operational footprint. We believe engaging these advisors will enable Venator to deliver the optimal results under these challenging operating conditions. And with that, I would like to open the call for questions.

We will now begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, you may press star then 1 on your touchtone phone. If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys. If at any time your question has been addressed and you would like to withdraw your question, please press star then 2. At this time, we will pause momentarily to assemble our roster. The first question today comes from David Begele with Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Good morning. Simon, Kurt, just on the cost program, can you provide a little more details on the SG&A savings as it is the biggest bucket of the $15 million in savings?

Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, that, as you rightly point out, David, is the majority of the $50 million. It's over half of the savings. in fixed cost in nature, SC&I and central indirects. You know, obviously that comprised of a number of areas. One of the areas clearly is, you know, a look across the entire business, what we need as a company to, you know, navigate through this very challenging period. And also it does contemplate some actions taken as a result of the sale we announced today of the iron oxide businesses and some of those numbers are baked into the savings. The actual headcount and savings reduction, it's predominantly headcount, come from the full range of functions and departments across the Venator enterprise.

Very good. And Kerry, just a couple of cash flow questions. How much work and capital release do you expect in Q4? And what's the expected net cash proceeds from the iron oxide sale?

Good questions, Dave. First of all, the amount of working capital release in the fourth quarter is largely going to be contingent on what happens with our sales volumes, right? We think that it will be tens of millions of dollars. And as we've indicated, we think that will help us in combination with the seller leaseback proceeds to be cash positive in the fourth quarter. But I think about working capital release and the tens of millions of dollars for the fourth quarter. For the cash proceeds on the disposition of the iron oxide business, there are a number of cash adjustments that will need to take place at closing. But you ought to think about the cash benefit as pretty close to that enterprise value.

Thank you very much.

The next question comes from Josh Spector with UBS. Please go ahead.

Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my question. Just on the 25 million COGS increase sequentially, should we think about that as mostly energy? And kind of just wondering if we saw 3Q have gas prices in Europe or energy prices similar today, what would the results have been in that environment versus what you actually saw?

Yeah, so the $25 million of costs, you're talking about a quarter-on-quarter there that we picked up? Yeah, so that's right. That is primarily energy costs that we were picking up in the third quarter compared to the second quarter. And as we indicated, we have been encouraged – by the government support schemes, particularly in Europe, that have been announced to help mitigate energy costs, particularly in 2023, looking forward into the next year.

Okay, thanks. And just on the liquidity side, with the revolver capacity you have, I mean, if you have two quarters of negative EBITDA this quarter, next quarter, Is that going to impact any of your access to that liquidity?

So let's be clear. We said we would be cash positive in the fourth quarter, primarily on the back of a working capital release, as well as having received the proceeds from the sale leaseback transaction in October, which was subsequent to the third quarter close, right? So we expect to be cash positive in the fourth quarter.

Yeah, sorry, I meant EBITDA negative. So would you have any issue with trailing leverage or some springing covenant if the trailing leverage starts to get too high?

No, no concern in the fourth quarter.

Okay, thank you.

The next question comes from Vincent Andrew with Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Hi, guys. This is Will Tang on for Vincent. Thanks for taking my question. Can you tell us how you've seen the order book kind of progress maybe since September on a month-to-month basis? And then, you know, what kind of sequential volume trends are you factoring in into that 20% kind of lower sequential volume in the fourth quarter?

Yeah, look, you know, I guess we're not going to sort of break that out by month. But, you know, clearly, you know, we saw this trend originating in Asia but spreading into Europe and, you know, falling through the third quarter. You know, as we look into our, you know, into our fourth quarter, I think the following comments probably apply. You know, in the fourth quarter, you know, we typically would expect a seasonal step down in, you know, sales volumes from the third quarter. That would be a double-digit percentage in most years. You know, I think that so, you know, the way to think about it is the balance probably is continued stocking within the fourth quarter, which we think sort of ends at the end of the fourth quarter. And, you know, there is some sort of feedback from customers, you know, to that end around the fourth quarter. And that probably should help you get a sort of profile and feel for how we see it progressing from the third quarter. you know, into the fourth quarter. And I think we said as high as 20%. And frankly, not that much difference across the applications groups. You know, I think there is some evidence that, you know, in the third quarter, we did see some of the sales loss magnified by our position in, you know, packaging plastics and inks where we considered probably overweight within the industry.

Got it. Thank you. And then looking at long-term, I guess, what kind of needs to happen from, you know, maybe a cost or demand standpoint for you to consider bringing your curtailed capacity back online? And then, you know, I guess kind of what are the cost considerations for you when you're bringing that facility back online as well?

Yeah, I mean, look, it's, you know, I want to emphasize very clearly that what we see today is not much. I mean, visibility is severely, you know, constrained and limited for us. Clearly, with this reduction in demand coming up so quickly in this severe level, we've had to really make sure that we manage our working capital inventories, both on the final products and raw materials, which I think we've remarked upon. We had a pre-existing constraint in Scarlino, Italy, as you're well aware. We talked about it a number of times now. That's running at one stream. We had to factor that in. And in Germany, which was sort of the worst affected area, we've taken the decision to moderate. So, you know, there's a fair slew of capacity moderated in a short period of time to get us to stay in control and proactive on our inventories. That's an important point. As we look forward into next year, of course, generically, what we need is demand recovery. Now, we do expect demand recovery to start in the first quarter. You know, if destocking is ended and we get the typical step-up 4Q to 1Q, we'd expect to see the start of demand recovery But beyond that, the profile of demand recovery is very tough to call. And I don't think we were in a position to be able to call that, but clearly you know, as we work through the issues in Scala, you know, that's going to inform, you know, the situation around what runs from our capacity standpoint. And I think as we remarked upon in the call, we have contracted with Alvarez and Marcel to come in and help us look at all cost cash and asset optimization possibilities we might have. And, you know, we are still digging into that and contemplating that, and it's probably too early to sort of applying on that, but it fundamentally will come back to the profile of demand recovery that we see predominantly in Europe, but also elsewhere.

Got it. Thank you. Pleasure.

The next question comes from Arun Vaswanathan with RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Great. Thanks for taking my question. I just wanted to delve in a little bit more to the volume decline you discussed sequentially. So, I think, you know, you noted that your customers are indicating that destocking will be done in, you know, or kind of winding down in Q4. Could you just elaborate on that? What are you hearing specifically? And I guess, are there any differences by region? You noted that APAC is the weakest. Are inventories, I guess, most bloated there? Maybe we can just start there. Thanks.

Yeah, the pattern is different by region. I think there's no doubt about it. I mean, one has to recognize from TO2 that the majority of our sales are in Europe and, you know, and our plants as well, of course. So, you know, feedback we've had from a whole range of European customers suggest that, you know, destocking would be done by year end, you know. And I think, as I said, that that comes across you know, each of the major applications group. I think we sort of felt it quite hard in 3Q for, you know, for the reason that, you know, we're large in Europe as a region and we're overweight in plastics and inks. And, of course, we took swift action on production to try and manage inventories as well. But, you know, I think Europe, that's pretty clear to us, the feedback. I think the picture elsewhere... is a bit mixed. We don't have the biggest window into China. We've said that a number of times. We're quite small there. We'd like to think that demand, you know, picks up, particularly, you know, encounter Chinese New Year next year and we get through some of these COVID restrictions and the like. Hard to tell in Asia. But what we can tell you is that, you know, we had seen a pretty solid sort of demand profile in North America in the third quarter and we have seen some evidence of softening in the fourth. And, you know, there's a number of customers there delaying and pushing off orders. Again, no fixed pattern to it by segment. But, you know, that's a different sort of dynamic to the one we'd already seen in Europe.

And then just as a follow-up on TO2, could you discuss your pricing outlook? You know, I know Roz have maybe started to moderate a little bit and, you know, the industry trade rags are discussing potentially lower pricing as we go into 23. What are you guys seeing from a pricing perspective? How should we think about that? Thanks.

Yeah, I mean, look, I think there's no doubt that in the fourth quarter there will be some energy and, you know, raw material moderation, you know, We're halfway through. I mean, you know, we should remind ourselves it's pretty volatile. So, you know, I think everything I would caveat with the fact that, you know, volatility is there even in the near term. But, you know, assuming there is some relief there in the fourth quarter, I think there's no doubt about it. There have been some selective price, you know, adjustments in the different regions, particularly in Asia and in Europe. But I'm hopeful that we can still target to hold on to our, you know, contribution margins as best we can as we go through to the fourth. And, you know, I think that's underscored by the fact that, you know, the industry has, we have very high cost structures. We know others have high cost structures because of, you know, raw material energy inflation, which has been patterned for us over the last three to four years, but very bad, of course, in the last six to 12 months. So I think that takes you to a point where, for us, you know, pricing remains elevated, but I'm not saying there won't be some give here as we see some, you know, relief in energy. Thanks.

The next question comes from John McNulty with B&O Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Yeah, thanks for taking my question. So I guess the first one would just be on the German plants. Can you help us to understand what the cost is going to be on those plants in terms of just kind of the, I don't know, I guess I'd call it stranded costs with them, you know, still in the portfolio, but ramped down, just so we can kind of think about how that impacts 4Q and how it might disappear when things are better next year.

Yeah, why don't I go ahead and take that. I mean, I think that, look, as we think about the moderation of the German facilities, keep in mind, and Simon addressed this in his prepared remarks, we have been accessing government furlough schemes in order to offset what I believe you're calling stranded costs. You know, we think about those as unabsorbed fixed costs at manufacturing facilities, but But for the most part, the government relief schemes can offset up to 70% of the costs. The company will contribute a certain amount, and then while the employee sits at home, they also contribute or forego a portion of their salary. As it relates to the German facilities, I mean, because those furlough schemes are available, it is more conducive to moderate those facilities. And also, those are, you know, that's the epicenter of where we're really feeling high energy costs as well. So hopefully that's helpful. Got it.

Yep. No, that's definitely helpful. And then as far as Running Scarlino now where it sounds like it's down like two-thirds or so from kind of normal hops. I guess why isn't that one at least temporarily kind of put on the side or mothballed or whatever? Is it just the, you know, there's some specialty products that you're making there that need to, you know, you still need to kind of meet the customer demand? Or I guess why wouldn't now be a good time to take that one down at least temporarily? Absolutely.

Yeah, I mean, look, there's a couple of issues there. Clearly, there are products made on that site that are very valued in this industry. And some of the inks products, for instance, come out of that site. So I think that's an important factor. These plants always better when they have some element of them running. I mean, mothballing is something that While we've done it in the past in total terms, we don't really like doing it. We have done it, but we don't really like doing it. And, you know, we locked in the negotiations there with our local authorities. But, you know, I think that the other thing we should tell you is that while we, you know, have been on one stream for a while, you know, we will actually, you know, take down that plant maybe for some period during this fourth quarter as well to manage our total working capital needs. So I wouldn't call it mothballed. We don't have access to quite the same legislative systemic industry help in Italy that we do in Germany, although there is a sort of variant of that scheme that we are closely examining. And I think that's probably the puts and takes of that situation.

Got it. And then maybe just one last question. So I know you have energy hedges in place through the end of the year. I believe you still do. Is there anything you can do to monetize those at this point? Like where, you know, if you do run an asset down and you don't necessarily need the energy you thought you needed, is there a way to essentially sell or unwind those hedges and create some value that way?

Yes, there is an opportunity to do that, and we have done that already.

Got it. Okay, thanks very much for the call.

The next question comes from Matthew DiGio with Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Good morning, everyone. Simon, I believe you said Zurich and Duisburg are idled right now. correct me if I'm wrong, I think that's what you said, but how much does it cost to restart those facilities next year? And how does that kind of flow through from a reporting basis?

When you say startup, you mean sort of one-time special startup costs, is that what you mean?

Yeah, just as you return those operations from idle to producing again, what does that look like from a cost perspective?

yeah i mean look there would be some sort of inefficiencies as you ramp up but by and large we don't think of that as a large you know cost item the sort of restarting you know of the plants and uh you know um as demand returns of course we'd be looking we'd be looking to do that now i think perhaps another way to think about that is it can take a week um or so

to bring those facilities back up and get them ramped up, you know, one to two weeks to get those ramped up to full production levels. So maybe that's a way to think about kind of cost, at least in terms of the timeframe.

Yeah, that's very helpful context. Thank you, Kurt. And I guess if you had to close Scarlino, I know you kind of mentioned something that you don't want to do, but if there is no solution on the, on the gypsum, what would the closing and remediation costs and all that end up looking like for Venator?

Well, look, you know, we sadly have closed a number of plants over the many years I've certainly been in this business. What I can tell you about the Scardino situation, and, you know, we're not there yet. We don't want to get there. We're going to fight very hard not to get there. But should we eventually get there, then, you know, the The all-up closure costs would be at the low end, I think we said, of our past experience of closing these types of sites. And the types of spend items would be very similar to previous times. And I would urge you not to think of this in the same sort of order of magnitude, for instance, as the PORI situation, which was a very unique, specific set of circumstances.

Understood. Thank you.

The next question comes from Roger Spitz with Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Thank you very much. On iron oxide, would you be possible to provide us the LTM Q3 2022 sales and pro forma EBITDA for that business, pro forma for the sale of Los Angeles?

Sure, sure. We don't have the Carvel financials for the fourth quarter of 2021, which is why we used an average EBITDA of 2020 and 2021 to give you a sense for what that EBITDA looks like. I think that is pretty representative of what the EBITDA has done, certainly here recently. But listen, we think that that's a good business. We certainly think there's growth potential for Cathay. And we think that they will be good owners of that business going forward. And we think they have a real good probability of growing those earnings and taking advantage of a lot of the cost savings that we've taken out here over the last year or so.

Got it. And can you speak about whether you have any active process or perhaps any potentially soon to be active process to sell other assets out of the performance segment?

Yeah, I mean, I think you heard us on the call today indicate that we will continue to look for other opportunities to unlock value within the business. Look, the iron oxide process took quite a while, over a year, you know, to get here. And so, you know, these oftentimes take quite a bit of time, but I think we have shown a willingness to be opportunistic where we can create value for stakeholders, and we'll continue to do so.

Thank you very much.

The next question comes from Jay Mears with Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Morning, guys. Thank you for the time. I guess to kind of follow up on Roger's question, morning. Is this sale leaseback transaction that you announced earlier this quarter kind of implicated in the iron oxide business? So should we kind of be thinking about like a net impact on the EV you're receiving, or is that kind of two separate businesses and unrelated?

No, they are entirely related with one another. So the cell leaseback of our Los Angeles facility is part of the iron oxide business. So you can think about a monetization of the cell at $140 million plus a $50 million cell leaseback. get you to $190 million of enterprise value that we will have monetized when we get to closing.

Okay, thank you. And then, you know, you mentioned on the call just kind of thinking about proceeds as bolstering liquidity. Can you just kind of talk a little bit about what that means You know, is that generally keeping excess cash on the balance sheet to just kind of navigate some of the volatility that you've spoken about? Or do you think there's opportunities to kind of proactively address parts of your capital structure, you know, things that start coming due in 2024 here?

Yeah, I think in the near term, we're focused on liquidity. And so we'll keep any excess cash on the balance sheet. certainly as we get through the near term, and then we'll explore opportunities to address the capital structure after that.

Okay. Thank you. Then one final one for me. The kind of cost to achieve on the new $50 million cost savings plan was announced today at $30 million. Can you kind of give us an update on the remaining kind of non-revenue generating costs that you had talked about last course? There was $70 million between restructuring pension and PORI. Any kind of change in that number after today?

Not much change. We'll spend a little bit more kind of here within the next couple of years in order to fund this new program. But if you look out over the next two to three years, then we'll still have that $70 million structural reduction in cash uses.

Okay. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Simon Turner, President and CEO, for any closing remarks.

Okay, well thanks everyone for joining our third quarter 2020 earnings call. Please feel free to reach out to Kate with any additional questions you might have. Thank you once again.

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.