Western Alliance Bancorporation Common Stock (DE)

Q4 2021 Earnings Conference Call

1/28/2022

spk00: Good day, everyone. Welcome to Western Alliance Bancorp's fourth quarter 2021 earnings call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. If you would like to ask a question for today's call, you may do so by pressing star 1 on your telephone keypad. To withdraw your question, press the pound key. You may also view the presentation today via webcast through the company's website at www.westernalliancebankcorporation.com. I would now like to turn the call over to Myles Pondylik, Director of Investor Relations and Corporate Development. Please go ahead.
spk02: Thank you and welcome to Western Line Bank's fourth quarter 2021 conference call. Our speakers today are Ken Vecchione, President and Chief Executive Officer, and Dale Gibbons, Chief Financial Officer.
spk12: Before I hand the call over to Ken, please note that today's presentation contains forward-looking statements, which are subject to risks, uncertainties, and assumptions. Except as required by law, the company does not undertake any obligation to update any forward-looking statements. For a more complete discussion of the risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from any forward-looking statements, please refer to the company's SEC filing, including the Form 8 file yesterday, which are available on the company's website. Now for opening remarks, I'd like to turn the call over to Ken Beccione. Okay. Good afternoon, everyone. 2021 was a watershed year for Western Alliance, as we broke many of our own records for balance sheet growth, total net revenue and earnings, while thoughtfully expanding into new business lines and geographies that will make us an even stronger, more diversified bank. For the year, total assets ended just shy of $56 billion, with loans growing 44% over the year to $39.1 billion and deposits rising 49%, to $47.6 billion. This strong balance sheet momentum propelled record net revenues of $2 billion, net income of $899 million, and EPS of $8.67, which is our 12th consecutive year of rising earnings. Turning to the fourth quarter results, Wall earned total net revenues of $561 million, net income of $246 million, and EPS at $2.32. Strong balance sheet expansion continued with quarterly loan growth of $4.3 billion, or 49% on a linked quarter annualized basis, and deposits rose by $2.3 billion, or 20% annualized. Loan demand continued to broaden across our business lines, with C&I loans increasing by $1.8 billion, inclusive of $200 million of PPP runoff, along with a $1.8 billion growth in our residential portfolio and $584 million in CRE. One of the hallmarks of our national commercial business strategy is the ability to develop niche, specially banking businesses and to attract qualified talent to thoughtfully scale new business lines with superior risk-adjusted returns. As an example, since joining in June, our restaurant franchise financing has $151 million in outstanding and has a positive contributor to earnings. Similarly, our Texas-based single-family home construction CRE team has $235 million in improved commitments. Our loan pipeline and channel checks continue to show a burning of loan growth in our traditional commercial loan businesses. Attracting seasoned senior teams to wall provides the opportunity to establish new business lines that ramp up quickly due to their existing client relationships. A $6.2 billion increase in average-earning assets drove net interest income growth of $40 million, or 39% annualized, to $450 million as excess liquidity deployment for loans and loans held for sale contributed significantly to earnings. Fee income was $110 million, representing 20% of total net revenue decline of $28 million from the prior quarter, and mortgage banking-related income was impacted by seasonal fourth quarter weakness and the mortgage sector's transition to a rising rate environment, which compressed gain-on-sale margins. I would like to reiterate that AmeriHome is fully integrated into the strategic fabric of Western Alliance and has thoughtfully managed to maximize value for the entire bank through loan, deposit, and net interest income growth, not just gain-on-sale margins. The B2B correspondent business inside of Western Alliance has several business levers which can be repositioned to sustain earnings throughout rate and economic cycles. Given the flexibility of AmeriHome's business model, ongoing mortgage operations can provide multiple revenue opportunities which serve to offset lower gain-on-sale recognitions. West Alliance's branch-like flexible business model provides us a competitive advantage to leverage operating efficiencies to enhance financial results while investing in business initiatives to drive future growth. Quarterly adjusted non-interest expenses grew $4 million to $235 million, producing an efficiency ratio of 41.3%. To put this in perspective, over the last five years, total loans and deposits have grown two and a half times the rate of operating expenses, excluding America. Productivity improvements provide us with the capability to absorb higher labor costs while continuing to fund products and technology investments. Total adversely graded assets were flat and quarterly net loan charge-offs were just two basis forms. West Alliance is one of the most profitable banks in the industry with a return on average assets and return on average tangible common equities. of 1.69% and 25.8% respectively, which will continue to support capital accumulation and strong capital levels. Finally, what excites me most are the differentiated technology and banking services that Western Alliance is increasingly delivering to our clients to solve unique pain points and facilitate transactions. We recently announced a partnership with Taxit Group to deliver blockchain-based payments to our clients using their passive pay platform. The launch of this program, scheduled for early second quarter, will allow Western Alliance Bank clients to transfer funds instantaneously to one another 24-7. Additionally, yesterday we announced the acquisition of Digital Disbursements, a leading digital payment platform for the class action legal industry that integrates legal settlement claim process with a multi-product This differentiated technology solution enhances the capabilities of Western Alliance Settlement Services' team and solidifies the bank as an industry leader in the $15 billion legal class action market. Our national settlement services business, developed in 2019 and launched in 2020, has been described on previous earnings calls as Deposit Initiative 1. This business has successfully generated $2.3 billion in deposits out of the year-end, and we are thrilled to welcome the new team from Digital Disbursements to help the bank continue to produce unique value-added solutions to the legal service sector. Gail will now take you through our financial performance.
spk11: Thank you, Ken. For the quarter, Western Alliance generated adjusted net income to common shareholders of $242.5 million in earnings per share of $232. Pre-provision net revenue was $326 million. Total revenue grew $12 million during the quarter to $561 million, and net interest income grew $40 million during the quarter to $450, an increase of 10%, primarily as a result of significant balance sheet growth and deployment of liquidity into higher-yielding assets. Average interest-earning assets increased $6.2 billion, while the lower-yielding cash position held at 2.3% and 3.9% of interest-earning assets. Although not annotated on this page, I want to address the characterization of two items in non-interest income. Regarding the $8 million in securities gains we reported in the second quarter of 2020, we purchased over $100 million of termed municipal bonds that were in sectors hard hit by the pandemic, most notably airports. In the fourth quarter, we sold those bonds as they had recovered in value and the velocity of rate expectations changed. I know securities gains are often excluded from core analysis, but this seems more like a trading game to us. Regarding the $7 million in credit guarantee revenue, during the quarter we sold a credit link note in which the buyer of the note assumes the first loss position of the $4.5 billion residential portfolio. This $7 million in revenue is the currently expected credit losses avoided by selling these bonds. I had ceaseless antipathy since before it was born. I don't think it's remotely helpful to investors in understanding bank financials. and it certainly doesn't improve comparability. But I don't know anyone who is taking CECL-based credit provisions and excluding them from core, which is the same principle here. It doesn't make sense to us that if we increase residential loans and book a day one cumulative loss expectation charge, and the next day we sell a credit link note to put that exact same loss expectation to another party, that we should be stuck with the debit and core income but forfeit the insurance credit for determining earning power. Overall, non-interest income decreased $28 million to $110 million from the prior quarter, driven primarily by interest-rewide gain-on-sale margin compressions. As Ken noted, in anticipation of margin compression, we are implementing several initiatives to bridge the gain-on-sale earnings slowdown with predictable and stable net interest income revenue streams. Non-interest expense, excluding merger and restructure recoveries and loss on extinguishment of debt, increased to modest 1.6% or $4 million, resulting in an efficiency ratio of 41.3. For the year, Western Alliance recorded net income of $899 million or $867 per share, a 72% increase over EPS for 2020. Net interest income grew $382 million during the year to $1.5 billion, an increase of 33 percent year-over-year, mainly attributable to increased loan balances and triple fee loan fees. Non-interest income increased $333 million to $404 million in the prior year as the AmeriHome transaction closed early in the second quarter and contributed significantly to FEBREP. Finally, non-interest expense increased $360 million, or 73 percent year-over-year, as 950 AmeriHome employees joined WAL in the second quarter. Turning now to our net interest drivers, investment yield increased five basis points from the prior quarter to 2.51%, while on a lean quarter basis, loan yields declined 25 basis points following continued strong growth in loads and no-loss assets, such as residential loans and capital call lines, and modest yield compression across other loan categories. We continue to optimize the deployment of excess liquidity into higher-yielding assets and allocated cash yielding 10 basis points of the Fed, loans held for sale yielding 3.04%. Funding costs were slightly lower from the prior quarter due to the redemption of $175 million in subordinated debt, with increased interest-bearing deposit costs at 20 basis points and total cost of funds at 25. The spot rate for total deposits, which includes non-interest-bearing, was 11 basis points. We expect funding costs to bottom at these levels as rate heights are forthcoming. Overall, Net interest income grew $40 million to $450 million during the quarter, or 43% year-over-year, as average interest-earning assets increased $6.2 billion, or 13% during the quarter. Liquidity deployment continued, and cash balances were optimized with cash as a portion of average earning assets of 2.3% and declined from 3.9% the prior quarter, resulting in a loan-to-deposit ratio of 82% and improvement from 77% prior. The net interest marks increased 10 basis points to 3.33%, mainly driven by lower yields on the commercial real estate portfolio and strong growth in low loss but lower yielding residential loans and capital call lines. With regard to our asset sensitivity, our rate risk profile has been reduced over the last two years as we've added fixed rate residential mortgages and the yield on the majority of available rate commercial loans have bottomed out at their contractual floors. We are poised to recognize significant increases in that interest income in a rising rate environment once these floors are no longer pivoting loan yield escalation and with ongoing balance sheet growth. Consequently, this asset sensitivity is more muted initially, but accelerates as interest rates normalize. Currently, $16 billion, or 94% of our variable rate loans with floors are after contractual floors. With 25 basis point rising rates, 25% of these loans will rise off the floors, and with 100 basis point rising rates, 75% cumulatively will return to variable rate. In a rate shock scenario, plus 100 basis points on a static balance sheet, net interest income will rise 73 million, or 4.6%. Using a ramp scenario on a dynamic balance sheet, we expect net interest income to increase $62 million in the next 12 months after quarterly rate increases are initiated. And given the pandemic, the dynamics of our loan floors, a $257 million increase over a two-year time frame if only four rate hikes are accomplished through 2023. In a rising rate environment, other areas of Western Alliance's income statement may also be influenced. Mortgage sector volumes and profitability are expected to be reduced with lower refinance volumes, partially offset by increased servicing revenue if the life of mortgage servicing rights are extended. These factors may be partially mitigated as we expect deposit basis and earnings credits on $10.8 billion of deposits to be lower than in the previous rising rate periods and to have longer lag times. but could give back collectively about half of the potential net interest income improvement for our interest rate sensitivity. AmeriHome is now fully integrated into WALT, and gain on sale volume and margin contraction can be minimized by accelerating loan, deposit, EBO, and product channel diversification, none of which are available to standalone mortgage operators, but are available within a bank-owned company. We expect net interest income sourced through AmeriHome relationships to rise throughout the year, countering reductions in traditional mortgage banking income and growing total revenue in net. Our efficiency ratio improved modestly to 41.3% from 41.5% in Q3 as our net revenue growth exceeded that of our expense growth. One of the key characteristics of our national business line approaches is high operating leverage. As mentioned in our prior calls, we expect the efficiency ratio to remain in the lower 40s for the year, inclusive of planned technology investments, new product development expenses, and the absorption of higher compensation costs supporting rising rates and deposit account relationships. Pre-provision net revenue increased $9 million, or 2.8% from the prior quarter, and 58% from the same period last year. This resulted in PPNR ROA of $2.24 for the quarter, a decrease of 21 basis points compared to 245, primarily driven by balance sheet growth outfacing PPO increases. This continued strong performance in leading capital generations provides us with significant flexibility to fund ongoing balance sheet growth and its capital actions in the credit demand. Robust balance sheet momentum continued during the quarter as loans held for investment increased 4.3 billion, or 12%, of $39 billion, a deposit growth of $2.3 billion, brought balances to $47.6 billion at year-end. On a quarterly average basis, loan-tell-to-investment grew 16% and deposits grew 8%. In all, total assets grew 53% year-over-year. Total borrowings increased $330 million over the prior quarter to $2.4 billion, primarily due to an increase in overnight borrowings of $275. and the issuance of $228 million in credit lien notes, being partially offset by the reduction of $175 million in the second sub-debt. Finally, PBV per share increased $3.17 over the prior quarter to $37.84, and is up 22% year-over-year. We continue to generate consistent organic loan growth from our flexible national business banking strategy and are seeing broad-based demand. Loans held for investment grew $4.3 billion in the quarter. Quarterly loan growth was split almost evenly by an increase in residential real estate loans at $1.8, which now comprise 24% of loans and $1.8 billion also in C&I loans as demand for capital call lines and mortgage warehouse lines remained strong and we saw an acceleration of demand for broader business lending nationwide, including early success in our new restaurant franchise financing, CRE, Chief REIT loans grew $534 million predominantly as a result of demand in our hotel franchise finance that bounced back as we expanded relationships with proven clients and sponsors while also obtaining tighter underwriting. Additionally, construction and land loans added $79 million. Turning to deposits, we continue to see broad-based core deposit growth across our business channels. Deposits grew $2.3 billion or 20% annualized in the fourth quarter. driven by increases in interest-bearing DDA of $2 billion, non-interest-bearing DDA of $295 million, and CDs of $226, partially offset by a reduction in savings and money market funds of $162 million. Robust fundraising activity and tech innovation, coupled with market share expansion of HOA banking relationships, contributed significantly to quarterly deposit growth. We also saw strong performance from regional commercial partners. To highlight one of our growing national deposit businesses, Business Escrow Services, previously called Deposit Initiative 2, provides escrow payments and administrative services for M&A transactions. This initiative launched in 2021 with a new senior leader and has recruited a highly effective team and has established offices in New York City and Minneapolis. The team has formed strong relationships with serial acquirers and successfully facilitated over 100 acquisitions which quadrupled our deposit balances in the fourth quarter in this business line to $600 million. We now have established ourselves as a formidable market competitor in this space. Our asset quality remains stable after the significant improvement seen in the prior quarter. Total classified assets rose $36 million to E-Q4, $301 million, or 54 base points of total assets. Special mention loans applied $33 million during the quarter to 0.85% of funded loans, greater than 30% reduction from the prior level seen in September 2020. Total classified assets and special mention loans as a percentage of total assets and funded loans are now lower than in 2019. Quarterly credit net credit losses were $1.4 million, where two basis points of average loans compared to $3 million in Q3. Our total loan ATL increased $11 million from the prior quarter to $290 million due to significant loan growth and low last second In all, total loan ACL for funded loans declined six basis points to 74 basis points. Adjusting for the $1.8 billion of mortgage warehouse lines and the $4.6 billion of residential loans covered by the credit link notes, where ample first loss coverage is assumed by a third party, the ACL ratio is 89 basis points. Finally, given our industry-leading return on equity and assets, we continue to generate significant capital to fund organic growth and maintain healthy regulatory capital ratios. Our tangible common equity to total assets of 7.3% and common equity tier one of 9.1% were both bolstered by net income in the common stock offering under the ATM, but were impacted this quarter by higher asset growth. Inclusive of our quarterly cash dividend payment of 35 cents, our TBD per share increased 317 to 3784, And I'll hand it all back over to Ken to conclude with closing comments.
spk12: Thanks, Dale. 2021 really was an exceptional year from an earnings and loan growth perspective as our distinctive national business strategy model continues to hit on all cylinders and our new initiatives are already paying for themselves. We're very excited about the diverse set of growth opportunities in front of us as we enter 2022. Looking forward for the full year of 2022, we expect Loans held for investments who grow in excess of $2 billion per quarter from prior guidance of $1.5 to $2 billion or a low to mid-20% growth rate for the year with flexible origination mix designed to maximize net interest income. Residential loan purchases will remain strong, but the relative contribution to growth will be driven by liquidity so as not to crowd out core commercial lending opportunities. Deposits will grow in line with loans as we continue normalizing the loan-to-deposit ratio, which today stands at 82%. The efficiency ratio for the year will remain in the lower 40% range as we continue to invest in risk management and technology, as well as build out our teams to respond to growth opportunities we see in front of us. We believe that NetX's margin declines have abated and expect NetX's margin to rise in concert with the FOMC actions. Stable and rising NIM coupled with strong balance sheet growth will drive net interest income higher. Regarding capital, our strong organic capital generation continues to support balance sheet growth. However, quarter-to-quarter variability around this growth may require incremental capital actions to maintain a baseline TEP1 ratio of 9%, including sales of credit-linked notes and common stock issuances from time to time. To facilitate this, we expect to add 2 million shares to our ATM capacity. In conclusion, we continue to see strong pipelines and have the operating flexibility to both execute on near-term opportunities while investing for long-term growth. We believe the current full-year consensus guide is the floor for 2022, but should tilt more to quarters three and four to reflect the seasonal and cyclical nature of our business lines and AMH's repositioning. Finally, one last note regarding Robert Salver, our executive chairman. Our independent directors are actively engaged in monitoring the allegations being investigated by the NBA. The independent directors have hired an independent outside law firm, Munger, Tolles, and Olson, to advise the independent directors on this matter and assist them in conducting an investigation to evaluate Robert's continued leadership role at the company. The investigation is being directed and overseen by the independent directors, and to be clear, is not the result of any allegations related to the company discovered by the board or the MBA. In addition, Western Alliance has and will continue to the NPA in an ongoing investigation as requested. At this time, Dale and Tim Breckner, who's in the room, our chief credit officer, and I are happy to take your questions.
spk00: Thank you. At this time, if you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. Again, to ask a question on the phone lines, you may do so by pressing star, then the number one on your telephone keypad. And via the webcast, you may do so by www.westernalliancebankcorporation.com. Our first question comes from the line of Casey Hare with Jefferies.
spk08: Yeah, thanks. Good morning, guys. Question on the balance sheet growth guide, specifically the deposits. I mean, I think we all appreciate that the loan generation is pretty strong, and you guys are capable of doing more than that $2 billion. And to the extent that you guys do, it sounds like you wanted to keep the loan-to-deposit ratio in the low 80s. Can you match that loan growth on the deposit side, which will obviously be a little bit harder in a rising rate environment?
spk12: The answer is yes. That's why we made the loan-to-deposit, just dollars growing the same amount. But our pipelines... look very strong, and I just want to reinforce the $2 billion loan guidance floor and the $2 billion deposit guidance floor are really at the low end. It's the floor. Our pipelines are very strong, and our deposit pipelines are looking at the moment for the first quarter closer to double the floor amount. So we think we're off to a very good start. We think deposits will be strong throughout the year, and we're very excited about what we're seeing in the marketplace.
spk11: Casey, referring to your comment about keeping our loaded deposit ratio in the low 80s, So we look at held-for-sale loans as not really an alternative to the loan growth. That's an alternative to cash for us. It's just a much better-yielding one. And for the most part, they're already – they have a great risk-adjusted capital ratio on them because you're putting those loans to a GSE. And so instead of keeping money at the Fed or some other, you know, do-from bank, putting it into these short-term basically puts that we have to the GSEs on these mortgages is a much better deal. But that's where the substitution is. So I would look for our loan-to-deposit ratio to continue to climb through the 80s, get back into more like the lower 90s.
spk12: Yeah, and just I always keep reminding people that health for sale, we're generating 3% yield on that for what is basically a three-week money market asset guaranteed by the government. So we like that strategy.
spk08: Okay, very good. Understood. On the deposit growth, you know, pipelines, how much of it do you expect from the recently announced tacit partnership? I'm just trying to get a gauge on, you know, obviously we've seen that at other banks be very, you know, explosive deposit generator. What kind of forecast are you guys baking in looking ahead in 2022?
spk12: Fair question. Right now we haven't baked in anything. So when we discussed, or I said that the floor is $2 billion, but I think we'll be more likely to double that for Q1, much of that incremental growth is coming from our efforts at AmeriHome to drive a higher deposit growth into the company. So both the digital disbursements announcement today and the blockchain announcement connected to Tacit, we have not put any numbers, any deposit numbers into our forecast this year. We are very hopeful and we expect for those programs to generate greater deposits. But at this time, our first goal is let's get that blockchain program with Tacit launched in early second quarter, and once we see the reception, we can then determine how to give you some guide on the future deposit growth. But I should say both of those programs, the National Business Line Strategy Settlement Services and also Business Escrow Services, they both report to Dale. So you want to add anything to that, Dale?
spk11: No, that's absolutely correct. I mean, I would tell you, you know, we have high hopes for what can be executed here, and you've already started conversations with us. But nothing is baked into what we're talking about.
spk08: Okay, very good. And just last one from me on the gain-on-sale line. Can you just give us some updated thoughts on, you know, where we can see the gain-on-sale margin trend from that 28 bps here in the fourth quarter? And, you know, can you – and the production volumes, obviously. Can you run, you know, gain-on-sale pressure with stronger volumes? Thanks.
spk12: One of the things that we're doing, what we call either repositioning or pivoting AmeriHome, is to buy and sell non-QM and jumbo loans. We started this immediately when we bought the company. We set up the program. We have 850 clients at AmeriHome. We had to go out, educate, train, and then approve them to make non-QM and jumbo loans. Today, 250 clients are approved, and they're generating about $200 million a month in mortgage loans. I tell you all this because as we go through the year, we're going to be leaving the conventional market, which is seeing more compression and spread, And to the extent that Western Alliance or the commercial side of our balance sheet doesn't want any of those mortgages or doesn't hit our risk-adjusted returns, we will then sell them off in the marketplace. And we think those margin spreads there are much higher, somewhere at 35 to 40 basis points today. So that was a long-winded answer to say, as we reshift the focus inside of AmeriHome, the lower-margin spreads today will grow throughout the year. And that's why, just bringing something back to my comment at the end, That's why I said, hey, you know, when you think about our earnings for 2022, I said let's tilt them a little bit more to the back end as we roll out all those non-QM and jumbo programs to our 850-member client base.
spk08: Okay. So the $200 million, that's what you did in the fourth quarter. How big can that number grow to?
spk12: You know what? That's a very sizable number. And I'll just say it could be very sizable, and let us get through another quarter and start building on it, and then the numbers we give you will have a lot more confidence in, and it'll give us more credibility. But we see that number building all throughout the year, especially into 2023. We're very optimistic about this.
spk08: Okay, very good. Thank you. Thanks.
spk00: Your next question comes from the line of Brock Vander Lee with UBS.
spk06: Hey, Brock. Hey, good morning. I think we should go back to the rate sensitivity. I think the most unsettling, maybe complex slide was slide eight and that last bullet. And, Dale, maybe if you could just go through that again in terms of I think everyone gets the basic rate sensitivity. It's the offset sensitivity. that you may have because of the mortgage businesses that I think are throwing investors?
spk11: Yeah, I appreciate that, Brock. I mean, that's correct. I mean, we obviously saw, you know, a cyclical and seasonal pressure in Q4 in the mortgage space and in anticipation of kind of the rate increases. You know, if this rate trajectory were to continue, We think that on that baseline, giving to what Ken referred to in terms of the present business mix, will undergo additional pressure as rates rise 100 or 200 basis points, which crimps that non-interest revenue. relative to that operation. Also noted there is that we have certain deposits with earnings credit rates. I think that's going to be much less significant than potentially the mortgage element. But what this doesn't include is what's you know, more to the NQM, more to the, you know, the jumbo mortgage origination product and these other initiatives that are being done there that will mitigate that. It also, you know, doesn't have kind of factored in what they expect to do in terms of growth. So, you know, last year we mentioned, you know, we had 860 mortgage warehouse clients that we have not mined for MSR lines, for warehouse lines, and for deposits. from that group. That compares to just over 100 that we have on the bank ourselves. And so we now have staffed up for that, and we expect to mine that group already. And as we get into that, that will improve, I think, what their performance has been. And on the net interest income side, mitigate that, but you're still going to see pressure on the fee revenue side from mortgage operations.
spk06: Okay. I understand that. I keep coming back to that last bullet point, but the last bullet point where interest rate sensitivity says it could be dampened by half, do we therefore prorate the NII impact you show on the left side or totally different?
spk11: No, no, no, no. And maybe we should be more clear here. It's it's not that the rate sensitivity is going to be cut by half. It's that the addition to PPNR from a higher rate environment. So we're showing, so for example, you know, 377 million over two years and, you know, an eight quarter rising rate environment. We're saying that, okay, if I, That number could be more like $180 million or $190 million flowing to PPNR. 377 is what you're going to see in net interest income, but you're going to see lower ramps or slower levels in fee revenue. So that's a PPNR change as opposed to just net interest income when you get to the 50% haircut potentially.
spk06: Okay. And just in the RESI loan yields, Just a detail here. The loan yields continue to compress, you know, 309 to 289. I would have expected those, you know, went in the other direction and lifted this quarter. Maybe that's a mixed issue in terms of what you're selling versus retaining. Just cover that.
spk11: Yeah, you're right. You know, our current, you know, on-the-run acquisitions now, we're in the lower threes. And so I would think that that has, that that has bottomed out. Okay.
spk06: All right. Thanks for the questions.
spk00: Your next question comes from the line of Abraham Manoala with Bank of America.
spk01: Hey, good morning. Good morning. I guess just first I wanted to follow up on the legal investigation that you flagged then. One, is the expense related to the initiation of the investigation this quarter, and should we expect the legal expense line going back to where it has been, just from a numbers standpoint? And then what, Joe, management to or the board to initiate this because it felt like at least about 60 days ago, you didn't see a need for having a standalone investigation versus what the ESPN was doing. So we'd love to hear some color around that. How quickly can this get wrapped up so that there's no longer remains an overhang on the stock?
spk12: Yeah, so let me take the expense question first. Really, there's not been any major impact at all to the legal line, and I'm not expecting that to balloon up in any way, shape, or form. So we answer questions that come to us from the NBA. I don't expect this investigational review to really add in any material way to the to the legal extent, line item. To your second point, I would probably correct your assumption up front. The independent board members have been very much engaged from the very beginning of this ESPN report and MBA investigation, and this is just the next step in their doing their appropriate due diligence and handling their fiduciary responsibilities to the company. So I just think it's just the next step in the whole process.
spk01: And is there a timeline by when we probably conclude all of this?
spk12: So really, this is being handled by the independent directors and their counsel. And I'm really not in a position to comment on the scope or duration of the investigation. Sorry.
spk01: Got it. And I guess a separate question just around rate sensitivity. I think you mentioned that you expect the margin to have bottomed out and move higher as the Fed moves. Dale, if you can give us a sense of understanding the rate floors, what should be the lift to the margin from Fed hikes? If any, if you could quantify that, that would be helpful.
spk11: Well, yeah, so out of the gate, it's going to be fairly muted. I mentioned that we have 94% of our renewable rate loans are at the floor. We're not going to see much there. Conversely, I think there's a lot of liquidity in the industry, and I don't see where pricing pressure would come from other institutions or on a competitive basis that to increase funding costs. And so it does start out, you know, fairly modestly, and then climbs. So, I mean, it's going to be, you know, kind of single-digit millions for the first increase. And then the next number will be a multiple of that, and then it'll probably double again as we get, say, 75 to 100 basis points off of the floor, and then it's going to be more rateable based upon it. the overall mix of our loans that are variable rate, which is substantial.
spk01: If I can sneak in one last one. I think, Ken, you mentioned that you think the $9.80 EPS from consensus should be a floor. You should do better than that. What are you assuming in terms of gain-on-sale income, given what the forward curve is telling us about rates? How meaningful of a decline do you see in gain-on-sale relative to the fourth quarter levels?
spk11: Well, so the first quarter, you know, the first quarter is also seasonally challenged, as is Q4. And so I wouldn't look for improvement in gain on sale in one Q. After that, you know, I think that sector starts picking up, I'm going to say kind of early spring, late winter, you know, somewhere in March timeframe. And so we're looking for improvement in Q3, Q2, and Q3 going forward. And then, you know, By the time we get to the second half of the year, our mix will have changed and we'll be less dependent upon GSE paper and more on non-qualified mortgage paper, which, again, has got our margins in it. So we're looking for things to be improving early in starting in the second quarter but carrying through 2022.
spk01: Thanks for taking my question.
spk00: Your next question comes from the line of Tamir Braziller with Wells Fargo.
spk10: Hi, good morning. Good morning. Just to circle back on the last comment on residential production, I guess is a good way to think about it, kind of the next two quarters of the product out of the Merit Home is still primarily conforming. You're going to use that time to continue building the um resi book on balance sheet and then as that product switches to non-conforming or likely more so non-conforming in the back end of the year all that production will be sold off and i guess when that switch occurs will that trigger a change in your appetite for production out of a mirror home or will that level still be the same just going through the gain on sale line yeah uh so i just want to correct one assumption first um what we're buying from ameri home
spk12: or what AmeriHome is selling to the commercial side of our business are the non-QM and jumbo loans. All right? So we're not housing the conventional loans on our balance sheet. That they buy in as part of their correspondent lending business, and then they turn around, and then they put them to the GOP. So for us today, we both have an AmeriHome info for non-QM and jumbo loans, and we had this program started before we purchased AmeriHome. And so we have, from our 100 or so clients, a group that continue to offer us forward flows. So as AmeriHome's volume picks up, we'll probably decrease the forward flows from our existing customer base, but always looking at what is the best return we can get, either from AmeriHome or from our existing customer base. Did that help?
spk10: OK, that's helpful. Yeah, that's helpful. Thank you. And then just maybe looking at the average levels of loans held for sale versus the period end balance, is that the typical trend that those balances kind of pick up throughout the quarter and then there's more selling towards quarter end? And I guess as we head into next year, are those average balances kind of what we should be using for our assumptions for loans held for sale, or is there going to be a step down here in the first quarter?
spk11: Yeah, so you may have noticed this before we had an AmeriHome teamer, but our loans tend to peak, you know, at or near kind of month end and especially quarter end. And so our average balance tends to lag that of our ending periods. I call it the telephone wire, although there aren't any more telephone wires anymore, kind of a phenomenon where, you know, it picks up, you know, and then groups down again. And so to basically address that and to have a more stable earning asset level throughout the quarter, inter-quarter, we have had the reverse basically planned for the help for sale book at AmeriHome because that's such a short window. We can play with that. And so we have driven up average balances lower than the ending balances. And you add them together, you get something a little more stable in terms of averages and endings. Going forward, I think we're there. We've taken the health for sale portfolios kind of where we want them to be. I'm not looking for continued growth in there, neither on an ending nor an average basis necessarily. And meanwhile, again, now that we've ramped that up, now that we have sopped up the liquidity that we had when we acquired AmeriHome, where we're sitting on $6 billion in cash, Our focus is now, okay, what do we want to put on the Helper Investment Book? And that's what Ken was referring to in terms of continuing to grow. the residential piece, but with these non-qualified mortgages that are really good quality. These are low LTV. They're in the mid to high 60s on LTV, 765 code, debt to income in the mid 30s. And we think that's going to be pretty impervious to kind of swings in the business cycle and the residential valuation cycle as well.
spk10: Okay, great. Thank you.
spk00: Your next question comes from the line of Brad Millsaps with Piper Sandler.
spk02: Hey, good morning, guys. Good morning, Brad. Dale, you're using kind of the NBA data as a proxy. Your mortgage market share has kind of been plus or minus, you know, 2% for the past couple quarters. I was curious if you had an idea of kind of where you might see that moving
spk11: know increasing to you know over the next i don't know 12 18 months as you guys kind of you know continue to take share if that's if that's one way to think about it well we have a we have a pretty flexible model whereby you know we can step up um on the share space um to continue to you know take volume um so i think that's going to really depend upon you know what else we see you know kind of going on we are sensitive to the um um how elastic demand and pricing is in that space. We don't want to come in so strong that we start kind of pushing down pricing overall. But within that parameter, I think we could be taking up share to, again, address the expectations that we have from AmeriHome away from what they're doing on our balance sheet.
spk02: Just curious, you addressed kind of the level of held for sale. That's going to remain pretty stable from here. But just kind of curious, if you do hold those for longer and generate more interest income, does that impact your gain on loan sale at all? Just kind of curious if there's a bit of a tradeoff there. Maybe we're not seeing it as much in fee income, but you're picking up more NII. Just kind of curious kind of how the two pieces might work together.
spk12: Yeah, let me tell you, Bingo, that's exactly what the conversation is. And we work with our – we work with AmeriHome very closely to make sure that the net economics are better for the bank, whether it be just taking the loans in, holding them for three weeks, and putting them to the GSEs. when getting a full gain on sale that way, or by having them reside and nest on our balance sheet for a longer period. So we look at it both ways, and wherever the best economics are, that drives what we do.
spk02: So if those loans have sort of reached, you know, kind of a steady level and you guys continue to take share, you could actually see, you know, all of us being equal, that maybe, you know, maybe the gain on loan sale – key income line, improve event first quarter, you know, kind of notwithstanding due to seasonality.
spk12: Correct. Yeah, that's a fair comment.
spk02: Okay. And then just on the servicing piece, I know it's not a big number, but you've got a pretty large servicing portfolio now, and I think you're only generating a couple million bucks. Can you kind of talk about some of the puts and takes there? It just seems like a low number. Again, not huge numbers, but just kind of curious where that could head.
spk11: yeah so i mean that's that i appreciate that right because um so i mean the servicing piece you know has been affected by um msr dispositions we've undertaken there's deconversion costs associated with that that have come out of that line as a you know a contra rep um and um and so you know slowing down msr dispositions could increase that number uh as well we also think that I'm going to say the back half of last year, there was more refi activity than was expected. And I think the reason for that is because there's been such an appreciation of home values nationwide. that some people, even though it wasn't necessarily economically advantageous to refi, did so anyway because they wanted cash out to be able to take some of that equity out to do for whatever they pleased. As we see rates rise more, I don't know that that trade really is going to make sense. I think you're probably better off leaving your first mortgage as is, getting a home equity credit line on top of it at a higher rate, rather than refinancing the whole thing. So I think that may slow down also. If that were to slow down, that would also result in less amortization of MSR premiums as those lines lengthen out. And that's irrespective of that they probably will lengthen out just as rates rise to begin with, which both of those would be positive for servicing reps.
spk02: Okay, thank you. And final question for me, just for Ken, on the CNI side of things, some really nice growth this quarter. I was curious if you could just maybe offer a little more color. You know, is that line utilization coming back, you know, with some of that purchased again? Do you feel like there's some real momentum out there on the CNI side as things get back to normal and businesses, you know, rebuild inventories and things like that? Or is that kind of still to come in terms of the growth you're seeing?
spk12: Yeah, you know, I would say the growth we're seeing is what we've been seeing almost throughout the year, okay? That warehouse lending for the most part has been very strong throughout the year. A little bit quieter in Q4, though. Warehouse, sorry, subscription lines and capital call lines continue to perform well, and they did so in this quarter as well. And they're up about, let me say, I'll tell you what they're up right here. They're up about $600 million. So that helped. You know, we had good growth in the hotel sector. You know, we grew that about $380 million. And then all our regional lines or businesses, they grew collectively this quarter nearly over a billion dollars as well. So it was a good quarter is the way I would say. And sometimes I'll just say when we talk about warehouse lending, There are three components to warehouse lending. The traditional warehouse lending was relatively flat, but MSR line that we capture in that number, they grew nearly $200 million. And then we have a note financing business, again, under the whole heading of warehouse lending, and that grew another quarter of a billion dollars. So that's where we saw the growth for Q4.
spk02: Great, thank you.
spk00: Your next question comes from the line of Chris McGrady with KBW.
spk02: Great, thanks for the question. I know you mentioned the low 40s on the efficiency ratio. I'm interested, kind of near term, as this mortgage business gets reset a bit, maybe you can speak to some of the flexible expenses that would come out.
spk11: Yeah, so a few things. A Q1 is always a scenario that's a little bit tighter. We see a reload on expenses, payroll taxes, certain of our professional fees, and then the revenues contracted because it's only 90. We're dropping two days, 92 to 90. And that's going to have an effect on the efficiency ratio. They're probably going to take it to, I'm going to say, 43, 44 in Q1. But then from there, what AmeriHome can do is, again, kind of process and right-size whatever makes sense in terms of where they are on their profile, given their opportunity. But overall, we think we're pretty strong in terms of on our efficiency profile and expense outlines. Great, thanks. And would you mind, I was trying to catch up,
spk02: You said something about 2022 guidance, that you're comfortable with the consensus out there. I missed that. Yes, that is a flaw.
spk10: Got it. Thank you.
spk00: Your next question comes from the line of Brandon King with Truist Securities.
spk09: Hey, I wanted to... I wanted to touch on long-growth expectations with the guidance of $2 billion per quarter. Are you expecting a similar composition as last year, Q4, for this year? And do you anticipate any changes within that composition, especially with the change in strategy with the narrow home and the back half of the year?
spk11: In general, what we're seeing now and what we expect to continue is a broadening out of credit demand across our business lines. And so, you know, it started during the pandemic. It was very narrow. It was basically, you know, mortgage warehouse lines and residential real estate and capital call lines. Now we're seeing, as Ken mentioned, we've seen increases in tech, increases in hotel, increases in the regions. I think that's going to continue. Where you could see maybe a little bit of an accordion element is in the residential side. So if our deposit growth shines, we're not going to push, obviously, on credit underwriting. And so the valve to pick up that increased liquidity going to really push on the residential piece on the NQM that we talked about. And so, you know, at a baseline level, you know, of performance, you know, I expect to see kind of the residential piece to be somewhere, you know, similar to what you alluded to, maybe, you know, as it was just over 40% in the NQ4, you know, something in the 30s and 40s or whatever is probably pretty typical. If we're you know, outsize on deposit growth, then you're going to see the residential piece pick that up.
spk09: Okay. That's helpful. And then you mentioned how hotel franchise finance bounced back in the quarter. You also mentioned tighter underwriting, and I wonder if I can get any more details on what sort of underwriting standards you're applying now compared to where they were before.
spk12: Our chief credit officer has been sitting here very quietly. We're going to give him a chance to answer a credit question finally. Thanks.
spk07: I think you've benefited over the last year really in being able to underwrite some of the best structures, in part because there was some pullback. So what we're still seeing in that is very low loan-to-cost, loan-to-value advances. We're seeing it with the flags and asset type that we prefer. So we're seeing it in our target market. And we're typically still underwriting with going in reserves that we wouldn't have prior to the pandemic. So I would call it conservative and thoughtful, underwriting and well-priced.
spk12: And when you mean reserves, you mean both operating reserves for somewhere between a six and a 12-month period, and also payment reserves for principal and interest, again, for a six to 12-month period. Correct. Thanks, Ken.
spk09: And then as far as the loan yields on that book, how have they trended since, you know, there's been sort of a reopening of the economy? Has loan yields kind of come down some based on what they were last year?
spk12: So, you know, in the midst of the pandemic, we were doing some underwriting still on hotel properties. And into the first part of 2021, the yields were higher there because There was less competition, and that's what we demanded to do underwriting at that time. In addition to, as Tim said, we had tighter underwriting standards. So as more people come back into the market, a number of our floors have dropped. We're still getting better pricing in that segment than we are elsewhere in our book of business. But, yes, it has come down somewhat throughout 2021. still great, very good risk-adjusted returns here.
spk09: Okay. And then lastly, I wanted to touch expenses. I just want to get a sense of what your investment priorities are for the year and also get an understanding as far as how hiring has gone. I know you've talent acquisition has been tough in this inflationary environment and, quote, unquote, the great resignation. But I just wanted to get an update on that and the plans for the year.
spk12: Yeah. So we had a net growth in hiring this quarter, which is good. I agree that there is a war for talent, and we're out there trying to hire as many people as we can as soon as we can. And we have appropriately so changed compensation levels inside of the bank to retain people as well as to attract new people. What I said in my opening remarks, you know, our efficiency ratio, our productivity improvements have been so significant that it's been able to capture the increase in the cost of new hires and retaining people. So that's question one. What was the other question? On investments, you know, the priority starts with risk management and technology. All right? We need to have that right given the strong growth profile and trajectory that we have. You could do some simple math and say, hey, pretty soon these guys are going to get to $100 billion, and we need to be ready to be regulated as a $100 billion bank. You don't start that when you get there. We started that actually last year we started it. So that investment has been in our numbers and will continue to be in our numbers, both for risk management and technology. For new business lines, it's interesting, the new business teams that we have brought on, fortunately, because they're such senior season bankers with great relationships, they come on and probably inside of six months on a run rate basis, those groups are paying for themselves already. So we don't have a large drag in bringing on new teams. At least we haven't yet, all right? And then in terms of stuff that we're doing organically, embedded in our low 40s efficiency ratio guide is the incremental work we're doing, for example, with Tacit to get our blockchain payment system up and running. But also included in there are new business lines that we are beginning to build or examine that we hope will help us towards the back end. of 2022 and give us some momentum into 2023. So we always look at our budgets as a rolling quarter process so we can lay out what we think is the appropriate spend in year one and begin to see what's going to happen in year two in terms of a payback.
spk09: Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks.
spk00: Your next question comes from the line of Gary Tenner with DA Davidson.
spk02: Thanks. Good morning. A couple of questions. First, Dale, I just want to make sure I understood kind of the mechanics or context around that credit loss note recovery. Is it simply that the additional CLMs issued in the fourth quarter reduces the exposure under the expected loss model? That that's why you... Yeah. Get that again?
spk11: No, yeah, exactly. So we sold... we sold a credit link note that we received the proceeds of about $230 million. And with that, they take first loss, the buyers of that note take a first loss on a $4.55 billion portfolio of residential mortgages. And so we have no loss unless the losses on those loans is more than 5%, which seems beyond astronomical to me. I mean, we've never had a loss on these loans to begin with. And so we have, but in any event, that's what they, they're responsible for that. And so, but yet, because the loans are still in our books, within CECL, the ACL, we have a reserve on those loans of $7 million, that that's what the ACL computation is. And so with that, Now that we have somebody else taking that loss, we're so responsible for that loss that we have a direct offset that we would claim that loss by paying back the note that they bought from us, the note amount, less the losses that have been put to them because they own the first loss position on that. And that's a $7 million gain. So you can do this in the same quarter. I mean, you know, and we are. I mean, we're originating residential mortgages. We expect that we're going to continue to put them out to a third party in most cases. The reason why we do that is because once you've done this process, you reduce it from a 50%, you know, risk weighting to a 20% risk weighting. It is cheaper to do this and to pay the note to this third party than it is to issue common stock to cover that 30% reduction in RWA. And I just want to make sure.
spk12: One other thing that Dale said, I would like everyone on the phone to know that we're going to be coming to market with this on a periodic basis. So you're going to see this happen again during the course of 2022, either another time or maybe at least two times. So this income that we're getting from it is going to find its way into the P&L. And then if Dan, you want to take the second half of that? It then accretes back in as a cost. If you don't have losses.
spk11: If you don't have losses, it accretes back in as a cost. It's just parallel to what is in the ACL. So we have $7 million in the ACL that is a contra asset. And now we have, you know, $7 million that is a contra debit, a contra liability that takes off of how much we owe this party. There's a little back and forth. I mean, you staple them together. That was my point.
spk02: Yeah, right. So it just effectively shows up on the fee line versus, you know, via a reduction to the ACL, which would be a little more intuitive. So my question is, the first time you did this back in the, was it the second quarter? Why was there not a similar...
spk11: You know, I mean, there effectively was or should have been. We've gone through and done that. But I would say that the dollar amount for this piece is larger than what that first one was. Yeah, it was only $400,000 from the one for the first one. So the $7 million is overwhelmingly the residential amount.
spk02: Okay, thanks for the call. And then just one additional question. Ken, in terms of your comments regarding a kind of shift in production, and I think a third of the clients approved on the non-QM and jumbo doing about $200 million a month, So if you roll that out and all your clients are approved and they double that production, that's $3.5 to $4 billion a quarter, give or take, in terms of that type of production. So is the idea that the overall mix will shift and be maybe 25% of that kind of production and the rest will remain conventional? Is that the way you think about it?
spk12: So, well, I love your math that 100% of 850 clients are all in on the program. So I love your enthusiasm on that. But we know that's not going to be the case. So I don't think you're going to see $3 billion a quarter. But I do think, you know, towards the end of 2022, you know you should be able to see from wherever we are about a billion dollars a quarter okay and a lot of this is going to depend on how quickly we can get our client base educated trained and approved and then get them rolling out this product which we think they want and then again for us we're going to look at the dynamics. And we're going to, you know, we set internal bench box here. And if it is better, first of all, it all depends on our liquidity all the time and how much we carry on the balance sheet. But if we see better economics to sell the loan away from us, that's what we're going to do. If we see better economics that we want to keep it, that's what we're going to do. And so it provides us a lot more optionality It just goes to show, really, what we've been saying since the day we purchased AmeriHome, that a mortgage company inside of a bank has many levers that it can pull that provide income streams to the parent company that they could not pull or use if they were a standalone company. And so that's what we kind of like about AmeriHome. And so I hope that answers your question.
spk02: Thanks, guys. Appreciate it.
spk00: Your next question comes from Alana David, Chevron with Webless Securities.
spk03: Hey, thanks. Question on the M&A pipeline, particularly non-bank as it relates to you made the announcement about digital disbursements. Could you talk about your appetite for additional transactions like that?
spk12: So as a general rule, one of the first lenses of thought that goes into whether or not we want to do a transaction is what is the return on management's time? We've got a lot of organic growth opportunities. we are as you can tell very excited by them and as you've seen from our production either on the loan side or deposit side being very successful with the ones that we've launched and the ones that we've been cultivating so the first thing is return on management time if there are products or certain niches that are very good for us to bulk on to our existing program, we like those, all right? We're not out there, like many of the other banks, fishing for a partner to do a sizable deal. I always say that that's not what we're looking for, but, of course, you know, we're pretty opportunistic. If something falls on our lap, we will, you know, quickly recalibrate and see if it works for us. But right now, you know, that's not the conversations we're having. It's more along the smaller lines. and also really on what can generate transitional or transformational growth like we think the blockchain payment program can do over time once we get comfortable with the mechanics of it and once we bring in incremental clients to the company.
spk03: That makes sense. Thank you.
spk00: Your next question comes from the line of John Ostrom with RBC Capital Markets.
spk05: Hey, thank you for taking the questions. Just two questions. On the guide for EPS in 22, you're talking about a steeper ramp maybe later in the year. How steep of a ramp are you talking about? You know, I have a 224 for the first quarter. a 262 for the fourth quarter on consensus. And, you know, I don't really care about the first quarter. I'm interested more in the fourth quarter. So just help us understand how steep that ramp is throughout the year.
spk11: Yeah. So, yeah, so I would, I would, you know, consider haircutting your Q1 a bit and, and, you know, and say that number was 10%, throwing 10% onto the back half would be, would be appropriate for us.
spk05: Okay. And you feel like it's sustainable EPS growth. I know you talked about some of the carve outs. But again, I'm just trying to think about 2023. I know that's a long way out. But that's, you know, sustainable is what I'm thinking about.
spk11: Yeah, I mean, so, you know, and really I'm going to look to the balance sheet for this, but we believe we've got momentum on these, on what we put out here already. As we indicated, we haven't, you know, factored in, you know, any of these kind of new developments and initiatives, both, you know, regarding the deposit side as well as some of the AmeriHome deals. We are constructive on the economy overall. as well. And I don't know how many rate increases we're going to get, but to me, it's probably going to be at least more. We're personally dialing in three this year, March, June, and September, but I don't think they're going to be done with that. And that should give momentum also. So yes, I realize there are implications of what we're talking about.
spk05: Let me ask you one more thing, Ken, before, and this may tie into if you want to add on to it, but Dale, you just touched on it. There's a lot of questions on mortgage, and I know that they're not the easiest to answer, but do you guys want higher short-term rates? Is that positive for earnings? And if someone takes the over on rate hikes, is that positive for you when you mix it all together?
spk12: The answer is yes. Go back to that slide eight. And Dale was saying those numbers represent net interest income increases. Take half of that, and that falls to the PPNR line, right? And so, yeah, it's beneficial to the company. And certainly once you clear the third going on to the fourth rate hike, most of our floors will be in the rearview mirror, and we're going to get a higher beta improvement on those loans that we carry, John.
spk05: Okay. Okay. And then just the last one, longer-term return on tangible thinking as rates rise. I know you've got some provision questions in there, but can you hold this level of returns?
spk11: You know, I mean, so we're at 9.1 right now on CET1. You know, could that stay to 9.3, 9.4? So there's maybe a little bit of capital implication there. I do think that we're, you know, as we said, we're going to see margin expansion, particularly in a rising rate environment. That would hold us, you know, pretty close to where we are now. Even if rates didn't move up or they plateaued, you know, more quickly, I still don't see how we'd fall out of the 20s.
spk05: Yeah. Okay. All right. Thanks for taking the questions. Thank you. Our pleasure.
spk00: There are no further questions in queue. I'll now turn the call back over to Ken.
spk12: Okay. I just want to say thank you to everyone for joining us today, and we look forward to speaking to you again in three months. Have a good day.
spk00: Thank you for participating in today's conference call. You may now disconnect.
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