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spk01: Good day and welcome to Wipro Limited Q4 FY24 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Deepak Bohra, Senior Vice President, Corporate Treasurer, and Investor Relations. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
spk07: Thank you, Yashashree. Warm welcome to our quarter four financial year 24 earnings call. We'll begin the call with the business highlights and overview by Mr. Srinivas Balya, our Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director, followed by updates on financial overview by our CFO, Aparna Iyer. Afterwards, the operator will open the bridge for Q&A with our management team. In this call, we also have our CHRO, Mr. Saurav Govil, on the call. Before Srini starts, let me draw your attention to the fact that during this call, we may make certain forward-looking statements within the meaning of Private Securities Litigation Reform Act 1995. These statements are based on management current expectations and are associated with uncertainties and risk. which may cause the actual results to differ materially from those expected. The uncertainties and risk factors are explained in our detailed filing with the SEC. WIPRO does not undertake any obligation to update the forward-looking statements to reflect events and circumstances after the date of filing. The conference call will be archived and a transcript will be available on our website. With that, I would like to hand over the call to Srini. Thank you.
spk09: Thank you, Deepak.
spk05: Thank you, Deepak. Good evening and good morning, everyone. Thank you for being here today. I'm honored to be here as the CEO of this remarkable organization. My memories of joining Wipro in February 1992 straight from the Indian Institute of Science campus are still fresh in my mind. I've been with Wipro for more than 30 years. I'm proud to say that it's such a unique company. the way it has combined profits and purpose. We're a strong global brand present in over 60 countries, leading in technology and committed to sustainability, diversity, and inclusivity. As you know, I've been in the CEO's role for about two weeks now. Through internal and external conversations and the press reports I've read, I am aware of the high expectations for my role. Despite my extensive experience as a business leader, stepping into the CEO's role for the first time feels profound, especially when it comes to leading this iconic institution. As I go through the many emotions of this transition, one thing stays strong. My unwavering belief in Wipro, our values, our people, our clients, and overall, our resilience. Last year posed big challenges for the whole industry. It has affected Wipro's performance too. The economic environment is still uncertain and there might be more challenges in the short term. However, the opportunity before us is limitless. We are on the brink of a major technological shift. Every client I talk to across all industries is eager to leverage AI to shape the future of their business. And at Wipro, we have been gearing up for this moment. We have made substantial investments to strengthen our capabilities across the organization. We have a global and diverse team. We have made bold moves in M&A, acquiring companies like Capco and Rising, which have boosted our consulting capabilities. And we have simplified our operating model. The building blocks are firmly in place and I am committed to expanding on this even more. While I remain optimistic about the long term, it's important to be transparent. There's still a considerable amount of work ahead of us. Our immediate priority is to accelerate growth. Before diving into the financial performance for KIFOR and the full year, I want to discuss the five focus areas we will concentrate to revitalize the company. Accelerate large deal momentum by working closely with clients and partners. Strengthen relationships with large clients and partners and further invest in accounts that have the potential to grow into large accounts. focus on industry-specific offerings and business solutions led by consulting and infused with AI. Fourth, we will continue to build talented scale which is now AI-ready and able to deliver industry-specific business solutions. And finally, continue to simplify our operating model and focus on execution rigor with speed. As you see, the core tenants of our strategy remain unchanged. What's important is how we build on these five priorities and adapt as necessary to accommodate technological shifts and market conditions. My years of experience in the markets have taught me that integrating strategy with rigorous execution yields tangible results. And that's where our focus will remain this year. Now, let me turn to our financial performance for quarter four and the financial year ending March 2024. In Q4, our IT services revenue grew sequentially by 0.1% in reported currency. If you recall, last quarter we had talked about seeing green shoots in our consulting business. The traction continued in Q4, reflected in Capco's sequential revenue growing by 6.6% and order bookings growing by 43.6%. Now talking of order bookings in Q4, Total order bookings stood at $3.6 billion and for the full year it was $14.9 billion. Coming to large deals, in Q4 we won 18 large deals against 14 large deals in the previous quarter. In TCV terms, our large deal bookings for Q4 was $1.2 billion. For financial year 2024, we recorded large deal bookings, TCV, of $4.6 billion. This was a growth of 17.4% as compared to the previous year. For our year 2024, our revenue was $10.8 billion in reported currency. We continue to increase the percentage of revenue from our top five and top 10 clients. Also, we added three more clients with a hundred million plus dollar bracket in FY24. Six out of our top 10 accounts grew on a sequential as well as on a year-on basis in quarter four. Moving on to margins in quarter four, we saw a further expansion to 16.4%. This is a 40 basis points improvement over last quarter. We closed FI24 with a margin of 16.1% and expansion of 50 basis points over FI23. Like I said earlier, we will continue to make investments in building capabilities and strategic acquisitions. In Q4, we took a majority share in Agne, a leading consulting and managed services company serving the insurance and insurtech industry. This allows us to strengthen our value proposition in a fast-growing part of the insurance vertical. Expanding on our substantial investments in AI, in Q4, we launched the Wipro Enterprise artificial intelligence-ready platform with IBM. It's a new service that will allow clients to create enterprise-level, fully integrated and customized AI environments. Let me share one example of a win in Q4 that came from an AI-powered solution tailored to our consumer business. A leading global apparel brand chose Wipro as its strategic partner to implement GenAI solutions for driving their digital transformation. This actually involves implementing large language models to improve search recommendation engines and enable hyper-personalization at scale, all done responsibly. Before I hand it over to Aparna, let me share our guidance for Q1. We are guiding for a sequential growth of minus 1.5% to plus 0.5% in constant currency for Q1-25. We expect margins to stay range bound like in the last few quarters. You know, the next few months will be crucial as we steer the company towards growth. As a passionate hiker, I deeply connect with these words from Zunco Tabe, the first woman to climb Mount Everest. She said, even if it's hard, you can reach the peak if you climb step by step. Of course, I seek the trust and continued support of all of you our clients, our associates, partners, and media as we move forward. Thank you. Let me now hand it over to Aparna to share more details on our financial performance. Over to you, Aparna.
spk00: Thank you, Srini. Good evening and good morning, everyone. Let me highlight to you our financial performance for Q4 and full year ending March 31, 2024. On IT services revenue for Q4, we delivered a reported currency growth of 0.1% sequentially and minus 0.3% in constant currency terms. For the financial year 24, IT services revenue declined 3.8% year-on-year in reported currency terms and 4.4% year-on-year in constant currency terms. Let me also give you some color on our market unit performance. Please note that all revenue growth numbers are in constant currency terms. In America as one, we continued our momentum of strong booking in Q4. We booked eight large deals in Q4, adding up to a total contract value of 587 million. For the full year, order bookings in TCV terms in A1 grew by 24.9%. Quarter four revenue for this market declined 1.8% on sequential basis, while the full year revenues grew 0.2% year on year. Our healthcare sector grew by 18% in full year in FY24 year-on-year. America's two market units grew 1.9% quarter-on-quarter on the back of strong performance in Capco, BFSI, high-tech and Canada sectors. On a full year basis, the revenue in this market declined by 6.1% year-on-year. Almost 60% of our revenues in this market comes from the BFSI sector and As Srini mentioned in her speech, we are starting to see a return to stability in the sector led by Capco. In Europe, revenue decreased 0.1% sequentially in Q4 and decreased by 7% on a full year basis. While Germany and UK continue to remain impacted due to slowdown in demand environment, we are seeing a recovery in sectors like Switzerland and Southern Europe that grew 1.7% and 1.6% in Q4. Southern Europe as a sector grew 14.6% year-on-year in FY24. We also continue to see strong traction on the order booking side in Europe. In Q4, we won five large deals and adding to a TCV of more than $300 million. ACMEA revenues declined 2.2% quarter-on-quarter and 4.5% for the full year. Our strategy in ACMEA has been to move towards high value transformation projects and reduce low margin accounts. The success of our strategy is reflecting in our margin improvement of 235 basis points for the full year. In terms of IT services operating margins, our continued rigor on improving operational excellence has helped us expand our operating margins by 40 basis points in Q4. This is after observing the impact of two additional months of salary increase in Q4. On a full year basis, our margins are at 16.1%. They've improved by 50 basis points year on year. Our net income and EPS for the quarter increased by 5.2%. Despite being impacted by a challenging macroeconomic environment, it is encouraging to note that our EPS for the full year grew by 0.8%. The increase in EPS was after absorbing The one-time restructuring charges of INR 6.8 billion during the year. We generated cash flow of $626 million in Q4 and $2.1 billion for the full year, which is at 182.6% of our net income in Q4 and 159% of our net income on a full year basis. This is our highest cash flow in recent years. Our gross cash as a result is at $4.9 billion and net cash was at 3.2 billion. Both have increased year on year despite completing our largest buyback in July of 2023. In terms of some other important metrics that we've always shared, our ETR is at 24.5% for FY24 versus 23% in FY23. Our hedges continue to be in line with our policy. We had about 3.1 billion of Forex derivative contracts as hedges at the end of Q4. Finally, I would like to reiterate the guidance for Q125 stated by Srini. We expect our revenues from IT services business segment to be in the range of 2.617 billion to 2.670 billion dollars. This translates to a sequential guidance of minus 1.5% sequential to a plus 0.5% in constant currency terms. With that, I now hand over to the operator for questions.
spk01: Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We'll take our first question from the line of Moshe Katri from Wedbush Securities. Please go ahead. Mr. Moshe Katri, your line is unmuted. Can you go ahead with your question, please?
spk03: Hey, sorry about that. Srini, congratulations on your role.
spk01: I'm sorry, we're not able to hear you clearly.
spk03: Can you hear me now? Is that better?
spk01: Yes, please go ahead.
spk03: Perfect, perfect. Srini, congrats on your role here. Looking at the five focus areas that you mentioned, I'm going to look maybe at three of them. large deal momentum, what needs to get done to get there? Are you talking about restructuring sales, sector-specific offerings led by consulting and AI? Are we talking about more strategically using Capco, given their expertise? And then you talk about simplifying the operating model. Are we planning a restructuring in terms of the various segments of the business?
spk05: Thank you, Moshe. I appreciate your question. Let me answer in terms of the structure and operating model. I said we will continue to simplify our operating model, but the focus actually will be more on the execution rigor and with speed. That was the key message, Moshe. Now, coming to the large deals, we want to create this large deal momentum. And one of the things that we want to do is be more proactive with our clients and with our partners. And the second part of, I think, the question that you said is, you know, we want to go very specific with the specific business solutions, both on the cost transformation side and also the business transformation side, which is a lot more industry-focused with consulting-led and AI-infused. I think that's how we want to differentiate our large deals going forward.
spk03: Okay, and then final question here. Can you... talk a bit about how you're planning to use Capco. I think you have a very unique asset that Wipro has not leveraged efficiently enough in the past since the transaction. So what's gonna be different here under your leadership at Wipro with Capco down the road? Thanks a lot.
spk05: Thank you. You know, consulting for us is going to be a strategic advantage and Capco plays a significant role here. As you said, Mohsin. Now, there are a couple of things that we want to do with Capco. Capco, for us, in the context of BFSI, is going to be tip of the spear for us. So what we want to look at is an end-to-end from a consulting led to execution. The entire story is what we want to take to our clients. And we are getting a lot of good traction as we speak. There are places where the clients find it very interesting that a consulting company can actually execute and manage the end-to-end process areas for them. So we will continue to collaborate much stronger in front of the clients, both leveraging Capco's capabilities, and it is going to be a very strategic advantage for us.
spk03: Thank you. Best of luck.
spk05: Thank you.
spk01: Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Abhishek Kumar from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
spk12: Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my question. Srinu, congratulations on your elevation. My first question is on Capco growth. You mentioned you saw both potential growth and strong booking. I'm just trying to reconcile this with, you know, the comments that we hear about discretionary spend, especially in DSSI, remains sluggish. So, you know, what explains strength in Capco? Maybe if we can highlight certain areas where CatCo is winning these, that's my first question.
spk05: So your observation is right, Abhishek. In the last two consecutive quarters, we have had a sequential growth, both in order book and revenues. I think what we are seeing is in the BFI sectors, these are green shoots. We have seen some of the discretionary spend coming to us in the context of consulting. The second part is also wherever we are leading in with the Capco as a tip of the spear for us, we are getting that advantage around the deals that we are working on. And there's a lot of synergy deals that we are working together going forward. So that's an advantage that we want to leverage, and that's a differentiation we want to do going forward.
spk12: Okay, maybe a quick follow-up on this. Then, you know, given the strength here and the FSI stabilizing, I'm just wondering why this is not translating into, you know, slightly better guidance for next year. You know, at midpoint, we still see decline, you know, sequentially. So it explains, you know, a slightly weaker guidance for Q1.
spk00: So, hi, Abhishek. Just wanted to share with you that The overall demand environment, we don't see a material change. I think it's very similar to how we saw it at the beginning of this calendar year. So the macroeconomic environment and the challenges around slower discretionary spend remains. What we've shared is that we are seeing green shoots in Capco. In the portfolio of clients that Capco works with, we are beginning to see some kind of stabilization. And the growth that Capco has shown in quarter four is very encouraging. As far as Q1 is concerned, they are continuing to have stability. Now, this is coming in after a few very rough quarters for Capco. So you should read it in that context, Abhishek. Okay. Overall guidance visibility, of course, the green shoots of healthcare and Capco are part of it. But also the overall macroeconomic environment and the softness is also very much a part of it. So this is what we have guided based on what is visible to us now. And that's it.
spk12: Maybe one quick last question. I just noticed a sharp uptick in the top client revenue this quarter. Anything to read into this? Is it runoff? what explains such a sharp increase in top clients. Thank you.
spk00: You know, Abhishek, you would recall sometime in Q2, I think we had shared that in a couple of our large accounts, we had one bookings that aggregated to about half a billion dollars each, right? Now, one of those clients is actually – gone ahead and become our top client. So we're very pleased to share with you that our top client is now a different one than what we've had for several years. And we're very happy with the progress that we've made and that's what we'd like to share. That's why you're seeing the moment.
spk05: Abhishek, just to add a few more colors to that. Large deal pipeline continues to be strong and does consist of mega deals as well. We are also well positioned to sustain and further improve our large deal and mega deal wins going forward.
spk12: Sure, that's very helpful. Thank you and good luck.
spk05: Thank you.
spk12: Thank you.
spk01: We have our next question from the line of Ravi Menon from Macquarie. Please go ahead.
spk11: Hi, thank you. Srini, congratulations on the new role. Wishing you the best. I guess the first question is on the top 10. You've seen not just the top client, but even the top two to five that have seen growth. Your BFSI has actually seen pretty strong growth as well. Look at it, healthcare also seems to be doing well. So the ones that are actually not doing well seem to be relatively smaller segments like communications or high tech. Could you give some comment on whether the weakness in these segments is the reason why you're still looking at muted growth outlook for next quarter? Should we expect that in your biggest verticals you're actually seeing growth?
spk05: Thanks, Ravi. Maybe I will ask Aparna to give some comment to that.
spk00: So, Ravi, yes, you know, this quarter for us in terms of BFSI, we've seen a quarter-on-quarter sequential growth after, you know, at least four quarters of being very soft. Healthcare has continued to do well, and we will continue to see the momentum build on. We are very happy with both our positioning offerings and the kind of growth that we are seeing in that sector. ENU and manufacturing, we do believe that it's been soft for Wipro, and there is some muscle to be built. We have a good pipeline. We have interesting deals in the way, and we'll see how they convert. More hopeful of getting back to growth in the second half in these sectors. Consumer and life sciences, again, it continues to be impacted. by the overall spend environment owing to higher inflation. And as a result, those are the broad colors that we wanted to share with you from a sector perspective. And therefore, it's a little bit of a mixed bag. So yes, we are seeing green shoots. And, you know, We will see, we've seen early signs of stability because now we've had two quarters where we've consistently seen not just consulting, but other parts of BFSI coming around, but very early to say whether this is deterministically shifting, right? So we continue to remain cautious in that space. We've shared with you an outlook that basically has components of everything that I've just taken you through.
spk11: Thank you, Verna. And the utilization number at 84.8%, this excludes all the acquisitions, right? So how should we think about where, say, for example, Capco's utilization might be? Should that be a margin lever if the BFSI demand comes back?
spk00: Certainly, we don't share our utilization, including some of the acquired entities. That is correct. Overall utilization, even outside of the acquired entities, we've seen a very remarkable progress that we've made over the last four to five quarters in that lever. We're very happy with where we are and we hope to sustain it even as the demand comes back. Maybe we will have to invest for growth at some point in time, but for now we will try and hold to that utilization. In Capco, certainly that is a lever. And, you know, we've got an incredible asset. Like Srini said, we have to drive more synergy wins and, you know, basically press on the revenue acceleration in Capco. And that should do, you know, a lot of good to the margins as well.
spk11: Thanks so much and best of luck.
spk01: Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Kavaljeet Saluja from Kotak. Please go ahead.
spk08: Hi, thank you. Many congratulations on your elevation to see your role. I have three questions for you, Srini. The first one is the fact that you have been with the organization for more than three decades and you have been quite a remarkable performer. you cannot say the same thing for Wipro organization as a whole. So what is your view or what is your assessment for the reasons for Wipro's challenges and aspects of Wipro's business that require a fix?
spk05: Thanks, Kanwaljit. I think thanks for the compliment as well. Having been here for three decades, all I can say is that If we continue to focus on those five key priority areas that I called out just now and definitely execute that with the speed and the rigor that we need to bring in, I think we can make a difference. So to me, strategy with a combination of execution is what can give us the outcomes that we are looking for. The second part, Kanwaljit, in the recent past, as an organization, we have high exposure to discretionary spending. And hence, you know, we have sometimes the softness on BFSI during those periods. And that could be another factor, you know, that you would have seen us grow a little slower.
spk08: Okay, so you basically think that there's nothing wrong with just those portfolio challenges, etc., those tactical challenges which are there, you know, and just a simple focus on execution would do the trick.
spk05: So, if you look at it the way we are structured, we've got the four markets, right, and each of the markets are different. They have different responses to the macro environment that we're looking at. So, that's number one. Second is, if you look at Wipro as a company, right, in the last few years, we've gone through significant transformation, and for a transformation like this, sometimes, you know, we have to make some adjustments across the organization, and this can lead to different views. I think from my perspective, my vantage point, my knowledge of our clients and our business, and of course the point that you made, having the lifelong connections across our company should help us move us into actual interactions quickly. That's what I'm looking for.
spk08: Okay. That's fair. The second question that I had, Srini, is that Your organization has seen plenty of churn, senior executive churn. So what are the measures that you will put in place to reduce the churn levels?
spk05: Sure, Karmal. Maybe I'll ask Saurabh to respond to that.
spk04: Karmal, I must tell you that for the last two weeks when Srini has taken over and the general euphoria among employees, that somebody who started his career in the company has reached the very top. I genuinely believe that if growth comes back, opportunities are there for people to grow. They're seeing people growing. Parna is another example for us who started a career. People will be keen to continue to see that this is the place for them to make their careers. Having said that, as Srini called out, that structures and strategy are not changing. But leadership will evolve. There is a living organization. There will be some people who would move and that kind of stuff. But there is no major disruption in the way we work, organize ourselves. So I don't see that much of a challenge as we move forward.
spk05: And we want to develop talent internally and also have a strong line of leaders in our pipeline. And that's another focus area for us going forward.
spk08: Okay. The final question that I have for you, Srini, is that I remember sometime in 2020, you had a magic wand. You actually struck fairly nice, lucrative two mega-Ds in the retail vertical. But the organization has been silent on mega-Ds since. You know, has the muscle memory weakened on the mega-Ds or, you know, good news is around the corner?
spk05: A good question, Kanwaljit. I think the way we have structured ourselves in terms of going after the large deals and mega deals is to try and focus on not only on how you pursue a deal, but how do you originate a deal, how do you shape the deal, and the entire process around that. So that becomes very critical for us. So, you know, in fact, what... I would like to do is for the sales team on the ground across the markets and across the industries, try and create a proactive pipeline because that becomes very critical for us because you work along with the client and the partner in a deal pursuit, right? The probability of winning is also much higher. So what we want to do, what I want the team to do is stay focused on those proactive deals as we move forward. Also, you know, If you look at earlier, we had mentioned in Q2 that we had won two close to half a billion dollar deals in two of our large accounts. And one of the two accounts, Convalescent, now has gone on to become one of the largest customers, largest client for Wipro. So we've seen that momentum also happen.
spk08: Yeah, that's true. Okay. I mean, you've been very patient with me. So I'll just squeeze in one large question. So please don't mind. Finally, on Capco, I guess Theory's view of Capco integration was a light-touch integration, keep that as a separate organization. Do you agree with that approach, and would that approach continue, or you would see a much tighter integration of Capco with Wipro's overall portfolio?
spk05: keeping the Capco brand as is is a strategic business. But what is more important, Kanwaljit, is I look at Capco or any of our consulting business domain and consulting teams to be the tip of the iceberg for us, right? So when you go in front of a client, you go in as one Bipro in the context of how you're going to solution it. But what's very important is the kind of CXO connects Capco has I think that's something that the rest of the Wipro organization can actually leverage. So I would say that we're going to focus on a joint positioning and a disciplined sales campaign that can deliver the best for the Wipro in that particular segment.
spk08: Okay, fantastic. Thank you, and thanks a lot for encouraging me. Thank you.
spk01: Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Gaurav Ratharia from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
spk10: Hi, thank you for taking my question. Many congratulations, Srini, on your new role. My first question is again with respect to your success in mega deals. When you look at the overall internal, your mega deal participation, your win rates, where do you think the work in progress is there? Where do you think you need to make some changes? Is it more about your participation or is it more about your win rates? Just trying to understand that what needs to be fixed to be able to participate more in the mega deals.
spk05: If you could just repeat the question, I just lost you for a minute, sorry.
spk10: Yeah, my question is with respect to your mega deal success, just trying to understand, is this required more fixing on the participation side, proactively creating pipeline side, or is it more about the win rates? You participate, but the win rates are not so good. Just trying to understand what requires to be changed to be able to more consistently deliver some of the mega deals.
spk05: Thank you. I got the question. I think absolutely there are two parts to it. what is important for us is to be very proactive within the market, whether it's our clients or partners or the influencers in actually sourcing these deals and then kind of shaping the deals which are very specific to those industries. The way you solution it and the way the business objectives of the clients are met also becomes very critical. So it's a combination of both which actually will lead us to a better win ratio going forward and I have seen the experiences wherever we have worked very well with the clients and ahead of the curve, I think our probability of winning has gone up. What we want to do is become lot more consistent, lot more repetitive across our markets and across our industries.
spk10: My second question is with respect to Capco. it'll be great to understand what kind of deals are coming in terms of nature of the work. And is it more broad-based across large number of clients? Is it more concentrated with a few clients? Is it just a tip of the spear engagement that is coming right now? Is it also involving some amount of downstream work? Probably that will help us in getting some comfort in how sustainable this trend that you are seeing is. Thank you.
spk05: No, absolutely, Garo. I think there are two ways, two opportunity sets that we have with Capco. One is Capco going on its own, doing consulting work for them, which is a lot more of a different buyer within that particular organization. But what we are focused on is the synergy deals, with Capco being the tip of the spear and helping us in the downstream, because that is where we can actually win a lot more large deals than mega deals. Now, using Capco... We have an advantage in terms of shaping the deal because you can be a lot more focused in the context of the customer process areas and the customer's business problem that we are trying to solve and then put the downstream revenue which could be either a cost transformation or it could be a business transformation.
spk10: And the recent success that you've seen in the last two quarters, is it more, again, on the synergy deals that you have seen, things coming back, or is it more independent work of Capco that is seeing some success?
spk00: It's both, Gaurav. Certainly, it is secular. We are seeing a secular uptake across the service offerings of Capco and across geographies. you know, and it is more broad-based. Also, we are winning good synergy deals, and the collaboration has only increased in the last four quarters, given the macroeconomic environment and the fact that, you know, the deals were harder to come by. We've certainly built the muscle on synergy also a lot better. Both are coming into play.
spk10: Got it. Thank you. Last question from me. Aparna, how to look at the conversion of net income into operating cash flow on a sustainable basis? I know this has been a fantastic year for Wipro, but going forward more on a sustainable basis, what should be the right way to look at it? Thank you.
spk00: If you look at just our historical performance, we've always been between what, like 85% to 110% of free cash flows is what we generate as a percentage of net income, and that's a good number to target. Yes, I think FI24 was a very good year for us in terms of free cash flow generation, and we'll continue to work on all fronts.
spk10: Thank you. All the best.
spk01: Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Kumar Rakesh from BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.
spk09: Hi, good evening. Thank you for taking my question. My first question was, Srini, you talked about large deal acceleration. Well, I understand that mega deals haven't been around a lot, but large deal performance have been quite fairly good over the last two years from what used to be about $600 million on an average two years back. you have been consistently doing about 1.1 billion or quarterly large deals, but that has not been reflecting into stronger growth. So when you talk about that you plan to work on large deal acceleration, what does that mean and how should that translate into growth?
spk05: So a couple of things. One is when I say large deal acceleration, Kumar, the idea here is that obviously you've got to have a lot more deals in the pipeline. So There, again, I feel, my ask is that we have to be proactive on those large deals. What that means is, can you shape the deal even before the deal comes out, right? And this you can obviously do with many of your large clients where you have very strong relationships. So that's number one. So second is the size of the deal and the frequency of the deals. If we can slightly increase, that can give us momentum going forward. Now, in terms of converting the large deal projects TCEVs to revenue, maybe I'll ask Aparna to make a comment.
spk00: Rakesh, this is again something that I think not just us, but it's just the nature of the market that the conversion is lower. It is because while we continue to win these deals and replenish the bucket, there is a discretionary spend environment which is weighing on our revenue performance right so we are continuing to see uh ramp downs that are happening where existing projects finish but are not getting replenished at the same pace so that is again weighing down in terms of the conversion from bookings to revenue and i think that's i think the major aspect also what has happened is While the momentum is much stronger on the large deals and the larger deals, the smaller deals buoyancy has certainly slowed down. At least in the last four quarters, we've seen that. Those are two things that are weighing on the revenues.
spk09: Thanks for that. My second question was around the number of clients less than 1 million. So for the last few quarters, we have been pruning our smaller accounts, smaller clients. But then in this quarter, on a sequential basis, it has increased. So is this one-off or there's a change in strategy now how we are looking at these smaller accounts?
spk00: There's no change in strategy, Rakesh. I think we continue to Our strategy has only got more firm. We are looking for profitable growth, and we will continue to pivot ourselves in a few geographies where we are doing, you know, we're not in high-value transformative work that in new age opportunities that we want to be. We would like to pivot our service offerings. And in that context, we did take actions, especially in Apnea as a case in point. I spoke about it. So what you're seeing, quarter on quarter, can we manage it? There will be volatility that will play out quarter on quarter, but I can assure you there's no fundamental shift in strategy. We will continue to focus on profitable growth and mine deeper.
spk05: So I could just add two more points to that. One is, I think it's not just the number of accounts, but the quality of the accounts we have, which is very important for us going forward. Second is, If you look at our, we have continued to add accounts in greater than $100 million bucket. In fact, we added three accounts in that particular bracket. So that's another one we want to keep tracking and keep moving.
spk09: Got it. That's very helpful and all the best to you.
spk01: Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Yogesh Agarwal from HSBC Securities and Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
spk14: Yeah, hi. Thanks. Shani, first of all, congratulations on your promotion. Just a couple of questions I have. Firstly, on the structure, a few years back under theory, Wipro moved to the geographic structure, which was a bit of a unique setup compared to other companies. So are you looking to go back to the vertical structure? Just any thoughts on that? And then I have a follow-up, please.
spk05: Yeah, thanks, Jokesh. I think the four strategic market units that we have and the four GPLs structure that we have, it will continue. No plans to make any changes, Jokesh.
spk14: Right, right. And the second thing, Shini, I mean, your headcount continues to decline. It's down like 10% and 87% utilization. So this Sometimes get a feeling, are you guys even looking at any kind of an imminent pickup in growth because this is quite a bit of tightening, operational tightening happening?
spk04: So, Yogesh Saurabh here, headcount has come down. It was driven by operational efficiency. As you see, our utilization has been all-time high in Q4. The supply side, you know, as demand picks up, we will be able to quickly ramp up. And we are comfortable on that part. So I don't see that as a challenge. We just have learned, you know, I think we as an industry that all of us overhired at a point of time, you know, just post-COVID. So we just want to be more cautious, more judicious, and, you know, as we move forward. But as demand environment improves, we don't see a challenge. Thank you so much.
spk01: Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sudhir Guntapalli from Kotak Mahindra AMC. Please go ahead.
spk13: Hi, Shini. Congrats and all the best on your new innings. Given that the organization had already gone through sweeping changes over the previous two to three years, certain change fatigue would have set inside the company and employees. So do you see that change fatigue as a bottleneck to be able to make any incremental changes you need and turn around the growth path? or maybe delay that growth turnaround?
spk05: Sunil, the advantage I have is I've been through this transformation journey, right, in the last four years. Clearly, in my mind, we don't need a structural change. The four SMUs and the four GBLs is good to go. What we need is to change our strategic priorities, which meets the market dynamics, which meets the changing technology landscape. And what we need is bringing a lot more execution rigor in the markets and in the sectors and in specific accounts that we call both the large accounts of us and also the future large accounts. I think if we can execute to that, bringing in the best of our solutions with the consulting-led and AI-infused, I think we can differentiate and make a difference to our clients.
spk13: Sure, Srini. A second question to Aparna on Capco. If the growth here is so strong, one would have anticipated that the company-level margin expansion to be slightly higher given this is an onsite heavy and fixed cost heavy business. So should we assume that second operating leverage will probably come with some amount of a lag?
spk00: Yeah, you know, so Sudhir, you know, Capco, like I said, had also the benefit of a seasonally furlough quarter of Q3. So the bounce back of Q4, the growth rate that we're talking about also was aided by that. There's a base effect to that. Two, yes, as the stability returns, we will see operating leverage. But for now, we are just waiting. This is not something we've shared with you for two quarters. Given the interest in Capco's performance, we've shared it. We are also encouraged. We are watching. It's too early to say whether this is a very definitive, deterministic trend. We will watch for how they perform over the next few quarters and certainly the operating leverage should play out with a lag.
spk13: Understood, Aparna. Thank you so much and all the best.
spk01: Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sandeep Shah from Equirus Securities.
spk02: Please go ahead. Thanks for the opportunity and congratulations and all the best. My question is related to one of the questions asked by a previous participant. Most of your earlier colleagues in the CEO realm has also highlighted and focused in terms of a rigor on execution. But somewhere that has not worked and improved the organic growth rates of vitro consistency. So what, according to you, in your past three decades' experience in Vitro, is going wrong in the execution trigger? Is it delivery? Is it sales? Is it client mining? Or is it hunting? And where do you believe weakness is higher, and how do you plan to rectify that?
spk05: Thanks, Sandeep. What I'm doing right now, as we speak, is based on my own experiences over the period of... years. Second, I'm looking at all the areas across the markets, what's working and what's not working, whether it's to do with large deals, whether it's to do with large accounts and account growths, whether it's to do with the solutions and approach to each of the sectors. So what I'm doing, Sandeep, is taking a stock of all that. While I called out the priorities, we got to bring the strategic priorities that we call out to an execution rigor, and you're right. Once you have the right strategy, right set of accounts, right set of sectors that you really want to focus on, then you have to be staying there for time too because some of these deals that we have won, it does take time. So what I want to do is have the staying power as well to continue to execute your strategy and not change it in midway. So we have to bring in a lot more consistency and perseverance, if you will, to win those deals and grow those accounts.
spk02: And if you want to define a performance API of your targets and strategy execution, what it could be and what could be the timeline for this?
spk05: So I don't think I have a timeline, Sandeep. This is my second week in my new job. Let me go back and see what's going on and what we need to do. But what I'm very clear is what are the priorities that we want to execute. And I think that's where I'm going to stay focused on.
spk02: Okay. And second, in terms of capital allocation, I think Wipro has done a fantastic job in terms of new cash flow generation. The outgoing CEO has been aggressive in terms of bold M&A, where capital allocation has been also fairly contributed towards the sizable M&As. Do you believe in that strategy? Because in the press conference, you also said Vitro will continue to remain bold on the M&A. So when you say bold on the M&A, is it bold in terms of acquiring capability, which may not be big in terms of size? Or do you still believe we have a headroom and appetite to go for M&A similar to Capco as well as Rising?
spk00: I think from an M&A standpoint, you know, I'll answer and then I'll let Srini weigh in. I think we will continue to remain focused. We will be selective in the M&A that we do. We will invest in areas of newer technologies. We will invest in areas that give us access to markets, access to clients. You know, the strategy on M&A and where we will play and how selective we will remain. On the size of the M&A, it's too, you know, we don't, We're not disclosing any one way. We've said that we prefer tuck-ins because in some sense it helps us stabilize in an environment like this. But we will remain flexible on that and we will see what works best for our strategy. On capital allocation, there's no change to policy, Sandeep. We are committed to returning cash of 45 to 50 5% of our net income over the cumulative three-year period. If you want to add anything, Srinivasan.
spk05: I think you've covered it. Thanks.
spk00: Okay. Thanks. Thanks, Sandeep. Yeah. Go ahead, Sandeep.
spk02: And the last question, Aparna, for you in terms of margins, I think we have done well in terms of a difficult environment. But if I look at utilization, if I look at offshore revenue mix, fixed price contributions, most of them has peaked out. So is it fair to assume now further considerable margin improvement is largely dependent on growth picking up? If it doesn't, then in that scenario, 16% flattish kind of environment is sustained going forward.
spk00: So what we've shared for now is that we are committed to remaining in a narrow a range bound between what we've delivered in the last few quarters. You're right that utilization has improved considerably. Our offshoring has gone up. All of that has resulted in our margins expansion. We are happy and pleased about that. We need to sustain that as we go along. There are enough and more levers for us to flex as we go forward. Rotation, internal fulfillment, There is a lot more that we can do on optimizing perhaps G&A. Especially given that there are synergies to be driven as we integrate our acquired entities deeper. Some of those levers will play out for us. FPP productivity is a very big lever. We are all very focused on it and the potential of how we can weave in AI. There is plenty of opportunity and there is plenty of levers for us to work on. Those are my comments, Sandeep.
spk02: Okay, thanks. Thanks and all the best.
spk01: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference back to Mr. Deepak Bora for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
spk07: Thank you, Ashishree. Thank you all for joining the call. In case we could not take any questions due to time constraint, please feel free to reach out to the investor relations team. Thank you so much again and have a nice evening.
spk01: Thank you, members of the management team. On behalf of Wipro Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.
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