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spk07: Adjusted EPS of $4.42 to $4.68, assuming a diluted share count of approximately 45.9 million shares. Excluding the 21 cents of one-time benefit to tax and interest income in fiscal 2024, the midpoint of guidance represents an 8% increase in adjusted EPS. With respect to capital expenditures, WNS currently expects our requirement for fiscal 2025 to be up to $65 million. We'll now open the call for questions. Operator?
spk19: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question at this time, please press star 11 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. If your question has been answered or you wish to remove yourself from the queue, Please press star 1 1 again. In the interest of time and to enable everyone on the call to participate, please limit your queries to one question and one follow up. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. And the first question comes from Ryan Potter with Citi. Your line is now open.
spk08: Hey, thanks for taking my question. I just wanted to start on the kind of large deal execution. I know last quarter you mentioned that you signed four large deals and this quarter you've already signed one. Could you give some color on how those ramps of these large deals have progressed so far? Was there any revenue contribution from these deals in 1Q? And how much of revenue contribution from the ramps do you expect in 2Q? And then the one large deal you signed in one queue, how does that compare versus your initial kind of pipeline conversion expectations?
spk10: Yeah, I'll answer that question, Ryan. You know, the four large deals that we signed in Q4 had minimal revenue contribution in Q1, insignificant, which is what we expected. These deals, though, are staffed. They are ramping. They're a big part of the story in terms of the offset in our fiscal second quarter to the large healthcare ramp down that we see coming. And the expectation is that those four large deals should be reaching steady state, if not early, then towards the end of fiscal Q3. Relative to the one large deal that we signed in the first quarter, no contribution in Q1 and minimal contribution expected in Q2. I think we continue to see good progress as Keshav mentioned in his prepared remarks on these large deals. Given the complexity and the business impact and the level of disruptions that they create, obviously the timing is something that we don't have a ton of visibility to, but having the large number of large deals that we have now in the pipeline and the expanding number of large deals that we have in the pipeline, gives us good confidence about our ability to close some of these deals here in Q2 and again in Q3.
spk08: Got it. I guess maybe kind of following up on that and the visibility comment, it seems like the second half kind of assumes a relatively sharp kind of revenue growth acceleration. I mean, it's based on my math. Maybe it's a little bit off, but what gives you confidence in this implied second half? Is it continuing to close these large deals? Is it some improvement in kind of client volumes? I guess what needs to happen to hit the low end of that look versus the top end for the full year?
spk10: Sure. So I think first and foremost, it's important to understand that when you look at our guidance for fiscal 25, the assumption for Q2 is that revenue will be relatively flat. We're looking at roughly a $13.5 million sequential ramp down because of the loss of the large healthcare client. that we need to make up. So if you look at the underlying growth and momentum in the business, even in fiscal Q2, it's extremely healthy. As I mentioned, we don't expect to see a full quarter's worth of revenue from the four large deals that were signed in Q4, in Q2. So that ramp continues into Q3. plus everything that we've sold in Q1 and Q2. So I think we're pretty comfortable with the build. There is nothing assumed in terms of incremental volume from existing clients in Q3 and Q4. As a matter of fact, we've assumed continued weakness in those volumes, particularly in the travel space in Q3 and Q4. So our goal here, obviously, is to try and provide a forecast that's realistic, but also somewhat de-risked from that perspective. As we said last quarter, we expected volume declines in the travel space. They actually came in worse than what we expected. But to the extent that we can, we've tried to de-risk this. We've looked at the client forecasts. We've tried to be conservative about what they've provided us. But essentially, it's the expansion of existing relationships in terms of new process additions. It's the sale of small and medium-sized deals, which remains healthy, that gives us comfort and confidence in the back half of the year. And then obviously, we need to close some of these large deals to meet those numbers. But our expectation is, given the large number of these deals and the size of these deals, that we should be able to do that here in Q2 and Q3.
spk16: Great. Thanks again.
spk19: And one moment for the next question. The next question will come from SurrenderSan with Jeffrey. Your line is open.
spk21: Thank you. I'd like to start with a question on the Gen A AI implementations that you guys have done or deployed to date. Are you able to provide any color on the relative benefit that the client is seeing or put another way, the impact of revenue that you guys are experiencing in terms of the productivity improvement and how those are being made up?
spk10: Sure, Surinder. So, I think when you look at the breadth of the Gen AI use cases that we've implemented and the deals where we've put Gen AI to use at this point, we have not seen any revenue pressure. The reality is the the goals of the deals that we've signed and the goals of the existing clients where we've leveraged these tools to date has been more about expanded benefits than it has been looking for clients to take out costs. Overall, while there's been productivity on some of these, the goals from our clients are more about customer satisfaction, new revenue streams, looking at ways for them to retain and attract new clients. So I don't think when you look at the revenue impacts from these today, they've all been additive for us. They haven't been negative to date. Now, again, it's not to say that we don't expect to see some level of pressure over time as Gen AI implementations at scale start to get put in. But the niche solutions that we're leveraging today tend to be more additive to WNS's revenues and capabilities than negative. That's helpful.
spk21: And then a question about just attrition and the commentary around maybe it being a bit more volatile. Any color that you can provide there that helps us understand the dynamics?
spk10: I think just more surrender about the overall environment and the fact that quarter to quarter, those numbers do tend to move. When we came out of COVID, we obviously had a significantly elevated attrition rate. We were running in the low 40s, and we knew that was not going to be a sustainable attrition rate for the company. We've gotten down to kind of more normal levels over time. We've been as low as 28%. We've been as high as 35%, 36%. I think it's more just to set the expectation that, you know, putting up a 34% attrition rate like we did this quarter versus, you know, 33 or 32 or 35 is not something that's unusual. So, you know, we do, as Keisha said in his prepared remarks, I'm sorry, as Sanjay said in his prepared remarks, we do expect that attrition rate to be relatively stable in the low to mid 30s. But overall, on a quarter to quarter basis, that number can move around. Thank you.
spk19: One moment for the next question. The next question comes from Brian Bergen with TD Cohen. Your line is now open.
spk02: Hi, thank you. I wanted to ask on the large deal. So just curious if there is some reliance on winning a handful of those still as you forecast the 25 growth outlook. And then just more broadly, there seems to be more large deals here that we're talking about. Is this an overall expansion of the market or really the company-specific benefits that you see based on that strong sales headcount growth?
spk05: Yeah, Brian, thank you. That's a good question. So, you know, I think what is exciting about some of these large deals is they are essentially a result of the investments that WNS has now been making over the past few quarters in particular, the focus that we brought into this area over the last year or a year and a half or so, and the fact that we hired and invested significantly behind some real solid talent across each of our sales functions as well as the business units. I think what is interesting is that the change that we're seeing is We are now interacting with, first and foremost, CSO-level community and people who do not have budgets to provide, but more importantly, who have to deliver impact to the street. So these are CEOs, CFOs, and chief operating officers that provide one. Second thing is, in most cases, These are deals being created where there was no deal when the discussion started. So these are not the traditional kind of deals that come through the advisor networks or through the analyst community. And obviously with this high impact sales team and the investments we made on the vertical side, we continue to invest very strongly in those channels. But the reality is a lot of these large deals are new creations being created directly by some of these new leaders that we have brought in as well as this new exciting journey that we have embarked on. So that's one. The second thing I will say is, from our point of view, it's exciting to see a scale up in the number of these deals. We're happy with the five deals that we won between last quarter as well as this quarter. We're also delighted to see a lot of the other deals making good progress At this point in time, in fact, of those 20 deals, a few of those deals are at very advanced stages. So our expectation is over the next quarter and the following quarters, we'll start seeing more of these wins, which will result in not just momentum for 25, but more importantly, position the company strongly for 2026. So I'm really excited about this initiative. And while all this is happening, The bread and butter in terms of, you know, hunting and farming, the traditional revenue sources is not at all flagging.
spk10: And I think just to add to that, you know, to your specific question, Brian, about the need for large deals to meet the guidance, you know, the answer is obviously yes. You know, we do need a couple of these deals to come through. But again, I think the comfort and the confidence in being able to do that lies in, to Keisha's point, the size of the large deal pipeline, right? I mean, to convert two or three large deals out of a pipeline of more than 20 is not exactly a hit rate that we would be proud of as an organization. So we think the opportunity is clearly there for that to happen.
spk02: All right, understood. And then on the travel vertical, so just can we talk a little bit more on the volume pressure? Is it broad-based across the portfolio or more concentrated in the kind of cohort of larger travel clients? I know you've talked about a larger OTA client.
spk24: Just curious if there's signs of relief in any of the larger cohort here.
spk10: Yeah, so I'll take a first cut at that. And, you know, our agent can join in here as well and give some color on the travel space. You know, I think overall, Brian, you know, we're dealing with multiple headwinds that are affecting the revenue portfolio in the travel space. And particularly, I think it's important to note that where we're seeing the pressure is fundamentally in the OTA or the online travel space where we have a high degree of customer service or CX exposure. So we know that business is always going to be more volatile than, for example, our airline business where we do a lot of operations management or a lot of finance and accounting related activities. That being said, we're seeing that the pressure is across the entire OTA portfolio. And it's driven by a number of different things. Some of it is macro related. Some of it is client strategy change. Some of it is mix of business. And some of it is we're starting to see clients get a little bit more aggressive about pushing certain types of transactions to automated channels. Now, again, that's not to be confused with Gen AI. This is more about clients redirecting certain types of services to chatbots and automated channels that historically have been done through voice-based channels. You know, in terms of the volume reductions that we've seen, I think the expectation is that we have to continue to see pressure in this space until something happens differently, right? We also know that coming out of the pandemic, there was a right sizing that needed to take place for the OTA business. So lots of things going on here. It's been a consistent pressure across the last year and a half in this space. The good news is I think at this point we've meaningfully de-risked it. I mean, our OTA revenues in the first quarter were less than 5% of total company revenue. So the hope is here that while we may continue to see some pressure throughout the rest of the year, the bottom line is the ability to impact us in fiscal 25 and the ability to impact us potentially going forward as things like productivity and AI and Gen AI continue to infuse themselves is also reducing.
spk00: Yeah, yeah.
spk06: Having said that, the good part also is that some of the large deals that Keshav talked about, we are seeing a lot of traction amongst clients in travel. And as we go forward, we believe that the mix of business will move from OTA into other areas of travel, which also will make this revenue a lot more secure. And therefore, that's what we're working on as well. Okay, thank you.
spk19: One moment for the next question. The next question comes from Nate Stevenson with Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.
spk15: Hi, guys. Thanks for the question. I had a two-parter on the insurance vertical. So I think previously you talked about the volume impact from a couple of insurance clients who are Exiting a few key geographies, and it looks like insurance revenues decelerated pretty materially in the quarter. So just wondering if you can give an update on the volumes in the insurance vertical more generally and kind of what you expect from that business through the remainder of the year. And then the follow-up there is just any update on the insurance captive. I think last time you spoke, you talked about something like, I don't know, 25% of the phase two revenues with 75% of that opportunity outstanding. So how are things progressing on the captive front as well?
spk10: Sure. So when you look at the insurance revenues in the first quarter, a couple of things. Clearly, as we had alluded to and as we saw in the first quarter, volumes were impacted for specifically three or four of our larger clients as they look to exit what I would call lower profit businesses. So for U.S. insurers, this is the impact of having fewer claims and fewer policies in force. as they've gotten out of states like Florida, California, and Louisiana based on the number of disasters and the inability to charge premiums. Now, again, our hope here is that over the next three to six months, we'll see some relief there. I do believe that there is now more of an ability for them to charge in those areas. So hopefully we start to see some of those volumes come back. But the expectation is that at least at this point, the volumes in that space should be fairly stable. The issue in the UK that we have on the insurance side was a proactive decision that one of our clients made from a strategic perspective to get out of kind of the low-end regional broker channels and focus on high net worth types of activities so uh we should have also seen that impact uh already in the numbers and have anniversary did but overall i think we expect the insurance space will uh will be a good growth engine kind of as we move throughout the rest of the year but let's give you some color on that yeah thanks dave so like dave said you know um i think we are very focused in terms of growing the insurance business
spk06: If you recall, one of the large clients who worked in Q4 was actually in this space. And again, we're seeing a lot of traction in the sales pipeline which leads to insurance clients. And that's why we are quite confident that going forward, this sector for us will grow significantly.
spk10: And that being said, to the second part of your question, we have not included anything new relative to the large insurance captive. We continue to have good, healthy discussions with them, not only about the rest of the phase two of our relationship that still has yet to ramp up, but also about new opportunities that we can take over within their portfolio. So I'd say that remains an opportunity, obviously not one that would be included in the large deal pipeline and not one that's included in guidance either. So the sooner we can get some closure on some of those pieces of business and get them ramping that has the ability to materially impact fiscal 25 and fiscal 26.
spk15: Got it. I appreciate the color there. So for my follow-up question, it's great to see the increased buyback authorization and sort of lower share count assumptions. I guess, can you give color on the cadence of that expected buyback through the remainder of the year? Is that going to be maybe more weighted to 2Q or the back half, or is it just you're going to be more opportunistic? And then I guess the the more general follow-up on capital allocation more generally is, I guess, what are your thoughts on M&A given the new buyback assumptions? You know, we've lapped the acquisitions, you know, a couple quarters ago at this point. So just thoughts on buybacks, thoughts on M&A and other capital allocation more generally going forward.
spk06: Yeah, so our buyback program, as you recall, the prepared remarks was already started in Q1, and the program will continue to Q2. We think currently our entire buyback should be concluded by quarter two. We have a plan that's out and we're looking to buy back almost 2.5 billion shares by the end of quarter two. From our capital allocation program, M&A continues to be a focus area for us. We are on the lookout for strategy tuck-in M&As that we think will give us a capability addition to our portfolio. Having said that, our capital allocation, if you recall, is on four pillars. So M&A continues to be a core pillar. Share repurchases, which are underway. We have capital allocation. CapEx expenditure is almost $65 million for this year, we plan. And we have scheduled debt repayment. That's also planned for this year.
spk05: Yeah, and I'll just add here that we continue to be very confident about our business. We continue to make all the investments in each one of the core areas that we have to be investing in at this point in time we realize that there are a few non-recurring kind of headwinds but nothing that is underlying the growth themes that the company you know is after at this point in time and and therefore you know if you leave out those you know one-timers uh which are headwinds that we spoke about earlier both for 2024 as well as 2025 growth is more or less in double digits And therefore, from our point of view, as far as capital allocation goes, we believe that our stock is underpriced. And therefore, we will continue to progress with our buybacks.
spk14: Thanks for the call. I appreciate it.
spk19: One moment for the next question. The next question comes from Maggie Nolan with William Blair. Your line is open.
spk22: Hi, thank you. What are your expectations for the cadence of operating margin over the course of the year, given some of the moving parts on revenue and some of the cost considerations you discussed?
spk10: Yeah, so I'll take that one, Maggie. I think the expectation in Q2 at this point in time, as we have the ramp down in the large healthcare clients and the ramp up of the large deals, from Q4 particularly, right? As I mentioned earlier, the expectation is that revenue sequentially will be relatively flat. I think the expectation on the margin side is also that we will be relatively flat from Q1 to Q2. So I think overall Q1 and Q2 are going to look a lot alike. The opportunity for margin expansion as we move into Q3 and Q4 is leveraging those investments that Keisha spoke about, right-sizing the headcount based on the ramp ups and the ramp downs that we have taking place in Q2, and then the normal productivity that tends to work its way through our P&L across the four quarters of the year based on our ability to digest the annual productivity improvements and the wage increases. So, you know, kind of a normal cadence other than the fact that, you know, I think Q1 came in a little bit higher than we had expected, which is a good thing. The expectation is that it'll be flattish to Q2, but then we should see as we move through the back half of the year and revenue starts to re-accelerate, we should be able to see operating leverage and margins improve.
spk22: Thank you. And I believe in the prepared remarks you said in 2025 you're expecting 5% or more of revenue will have a generative AI component to it. Are those types of engagements going to be structured differently than your typical engagement in the past that did not have a generative AI component, or is there anything else unique about those contracts that we should be considering?
spk10: I think it's a combination of things, Maggie. I think in some cases, we're putting generative AI capabilities into existing processes that we manage to help make them more efficient, to help drive different kinds of results and different kinds of behaviors. And in those cases, I don't expect a material change to how we're going to charge or how the relationship is going to be in the short run. I think for some of the newer deals where we're seeing meaningful components of Gen AI as part of the service and solution, We are seeing more non-FTE types of relationships put into place, whether that's transaction-based or outcome-based or gain-sharing kind of based. But I think, as we've spoken about in the past, as the Gen AI services and solutions go more mainstream, as we implement them more at scale across a customer base and start relationships with Gen AI types of capabilities, The expectation is that our portfolio of work should shift more toward non-FTE structures than what we've historically seen. So our expectation is that while, again, that creates some risk that comes with gain sharing, it also creates margin opportunity for us.
spk17: Thank you.
spk10: Thank you.
spk19: One moment for the next question. The next question comes from Puneet Jain with JPMorgan. Your line's open.
spk12: Hey, thanks for taking my question. Are you seeing any changes in client behavior, specifically as they try and understand, assess how Gen AI impact their business processes? I'm assuming the large deals you are signing, they do not include any benefits from GenAI or any potential applications of GenAI at this point.
spk05: Punit, thanks for the question. So I think the first thing is clients continue to be focused on whatever is strategic for themselves. So whether it is cost leadership whether it is the transformation you know kind of areas whether it is you know which is the right partner for them to help them navigate the opportunity and potentially whatever theft that they see through Jenny I that's really their focus one of the things that we have seen over the past you know few quarters is the general height that we saw around general generative AI at least from a client point of view, has subsided, has given me way to much more focus around the ecosystem outside, the economic situation, the challenges they're facing with their business, and how they can leverage strategic partners like us in terms of just delivering what they need to deliver to their shareholders. So we're back to cost impact, digital transformation, as well as safety of the right partner who brings digital domain and data all together to deliver the outcomes. Now, obviously, AI and generative AI continue to be a very important theme in that. And therefore, they're picking their partners in terms of who are the right people who understand their business, who understand data better, and who can, when the time is right, provide the right solutions and outcomes you know, for them. And in this scheme of things, as we look at some of the large deal pipeline that we're talking about, obviously we are looking at leveraging some of the generative AI infused solutions that we anyway have, right? And that is what gives us confidence that while the client is still, you know, figuring out how they want to deal with some of this, they also have a lot of comfort and confidence that WNS has through its offering program, infused all of these solutions into the outcome-based kind of solutions that we are providing for them. So you have to assume that all of these solutions are digital-led, technology-led, transformation-led, very heavy on domain, but also have a mix of generative AI as a result of which we're able to provide them outstanding pricing and outcome-based models.
spk10: And just to add a little color to Keshav's comment, Puneet, two of the four large deals that we signed in Q4 have a Gen AI component, one in the insurance space, one in the shipping and logistics space. But to Keisha's point, I think what's most important is to understand that clients don't come to us and say they want an AI or a Gen AI solution. What they're doing is they're coming to us saying they want a solution to a business problem. How we deliver that for them is far less important than the business results we're capable of delivering.
spk12: Understood, understood. No, that's good to know, and thanks for that detailed answer. I'd like to follow up on Maggie's questions on margins, like with this gap reporting from here on, like I guess like some of the lease expenses will move above the line. So how should we think about margins, like for this year, for the entire year, adjusted operating margin levels, as well as beyond this year?
spk06: Yeah, so let me take that. So if you look at from IFRS to US GAAP perspective, you know, adjusted operating margin would trend about 1% lower. However, having said that, the interest cost that we'd also see would be lower by almost 1.1%. So at the ANI level, we are seeing a very marginal increase of 10 basis points. And some of that will flow into the EPS to about 3 to 4 cents impact from IFRS to US GAAP.
spk10: So in general, I think the expectation now would be that overall adjusted operating margin will run 100 basis points lower than it used to. I think we're still 20% plus in terms of adjusted operating margins, which keeps us in an industry-leading position. But the reality is, instead of running, for example, this year in a 21 to 22 range, we're going to be running in a 20 to a 21 range.
spk07: And maybe, Punita, I'll just add, it's just a reclassification. Overall ANI is just neutral, in fact, positive. It has just moved from operating margin you know, before interest line, which is like, you know, if you see, there is always an operating margin after interest. It just reclassified specifically the lease charges, you know, from bottom to the top. So overall, net to net, it's neutral. But yes, you know, on the operating margin line, it's 100% impact at this stage.
spk12: Got it. Now I understand, like, the reclassification. So quickly, if I can quickly ask, like, about this year's margin. So the first half, you will be 18 and a half, give or take. So do you feel confident that, like, with revenue growth, with everything, like, you can get to 20% plus margins for the entire year?
spk11: Yes. Yes.
spk12: Got it. Thank you.
spk19: One moment for the next question. The next question comes from Dave Koning with Bayard. Your line is open.
spk13: Yeah. Hey, guys. Thank you. And just to kind of review, you know, the obviously four verticals, health care will step down next quarter and be down pretty significantly year over year the rest of the year. Which verticals are going to make up for it and see what seems like pretty big, you know, sequential step ups the next couple of quarters and year over year as well? Like, where should we really see that from a vertical basis?
spk10: Sure. So I think, you know, as you rightly say, Dave, obviously Q2 is going to be a challenge for us primarily because of the healthcare vertical ramp down and the ongoing challenges that we see in the travel space. So, you know, with that kind of in mind, when you look at where the opportunities are, we talked about the ramp up in insurance in Q2 based on the large deal that we signed in Q4. We're going to talk about a ramp up in Q2 and into Q3 in the shipping and logistics space, which we believe will be one of our leading verticals for this fiscal year. When you look at the high-tech professional services vertical, that should be a growth engine for us, as well as utilities, which has been on a really nice trend over the last four or five quarters. So I think overall the business should be very, very healthy across most of our verticals with the exception of travel and healthcare.
spk13: Gotcha. Okay. No, thank you. That's helpful. And then one other thing just noticed that the largest client was up pretty substantially year over year. I know it's not huge. It's maybe five, 6% of total revs, but it was up mid twenties percent or so year over year. What, what was that? And is that sustainable?
spk10: Yeah, I think it is, right? So we've got a client who is expanding their relationship with us. They've been a client and a really good client and a top five client for an extended period of time, but we found new ways to engage with them. We found other things to do with them. We're seeing volume increases with this customer. So overall, the relationship is healthy and it's helping you see it largely impacting our utility space.
spk13: Gotcha. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Dave.
spk19: Thank you. One moment for the next question. The next question comes from Vincent Colicchio with Barrington Research. Your line is open.
spk03: Yes. I think your case of your headcount increased 1% sequentially. Could you help us understand how your headcount may grow relative to revenue growth for the balance of the year?
spk06: Yeah, so from a headcount perspective, the reason why headcount grew was, you know, we've had some, because the Q4 wins, we've had to ramp up some headcount to account for the increase in Q2. You know, Dave also mentioned that, you know, in Q2, we will have the reduction in the healthcare client, and therefore, utilization of headcount would, you know, has been low in Q1, and we expect that to improve as we go into Q2 and Q3 onwards, and as we start ramping up other deals as well. So from a headcount perspective, I think that's the reason why Q1 came in slightly higher versus Q4. But as we go forward in the year and as the healthcare client ramps down, I think you will see a more steady increase in headcount versus revenue.
spk10: Yeah, I think the other thing that's important, Vince, and I'm glad you brought it up, the ramp down that we're going to see in Q2 relative to the healthcare client was a heavily technology-enabled set of services. So the reality is what you're going to see is a disproportionate ramp down in revenue relative to a ramp down in headcount. This is going to affect, for the full year, it's going to affect our revenue per employee metrics. But essentially, to reaccelerate that growth and to reaccelerate it based on the four deals that we signed in Q4, the one we signed in Q1, and the deals that are in the large deal pipeline, we're going to need to be aggressively hiring through the rest of the year.
spk03: And, Keshav, kudos to your investments in the sales side. I mean, the increase in transformational deals in the pipeline looks fairly impressive. Are you expecting that pipeline to continue to expand for transformational deals as the year progresses?
spk05: Yeah, Vince, so, first of all, thank you for that compliment about its, you know, because of the new restructuring that we did in terms of our corporate structure, as well as the fit goes to all the people managing each of the strategic business units and sales of this company. So it's all in their credit. But having said that, I must tell you, this is the new way of business for WS for the long term. So not only we will continue to focus on building our new large transformational deal impact. But I think over a period of time, as each of these deals come to fruition, I think there's a new discipline and there's a new excitement of creating this pipeline, which I think will carry well into 2026 and 2027. I think that's what is the most exciting area of growth for WNS. And again, I just want to underline the fact that these are deals being created where there is no deal. you know, that is coming in the market. It is actually coming as a result of our senior people interacting with decision makers on the other side, understanding their pain points, understanding the value proposition that they would like to have, and then crafting a solution on a win-win basis, leveraging the best of WNS, digital, domain, AI, generative AI, and outcome-based, you know, impact surprises.
spk10: And one other point I'd like to make, Vince, and it's subtle, but I think it's important. We've historically, as a company, talked about large deals as being 5 million plus in ACV, or annual contract value. The 20 plus deals that Keshav spoke about in his prepared remarks are all more than $10 million in ACV. So the reality is we still have what we consider historically to be large deals in the pipeline, We still have expansion opportunities in the pipeline. But this very large deal pipeline and several of them having moved down a path over the last couple of quarters here, the last several quarters, is something that's very new for us. And it's really in addition to what we've historically seen as opposed to in place of.
spk03: Thanks, guys.
spk10: Thanks, Vince.
spk19: At this time we have no further questions in the queue. This will conclude today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect. Music. Thank you. Good morning and welcome to the WNS Holdings Fiscal 2025 First Quarter Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After management's prepared remarks, we will conduct a question and answer session and instructions for how to ask a question will follow at that time. As a reminder, this call is being recorded for replay purposes. Now, I would like to turn the call over to David Mackey, WNS's Executive Vice President of Finance and Head of Investor Relations. David, please go ahead.
spk10: Thank you, and welcome to our fiscal 2025 first quarter earnings call. With me today on the call, I have WNS's CEO, Keshav Muragesh, WNS's CFO, Sanjay Puria, and our Corporate Financial Controller, Arjit Sen. A press release detailing our financial results was issued earlier today. This release is also available on the investor relations section of our website at www.wns.com. Today's remarks will focus on the results for the fiscal first quarter ended June 30th, 2024. Some of the matters that will be discussed on today's call are forward-looking. Please keep in mind that these forward-looking statements are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied by such statements. Such risks and uncertainties include, but are not limited to, those factors set forth in the company's Form 20F. This document is also available on the company website. During this call, management will reference certain non-gap financial measures, which we believe provide useful information for investors. Reconciliations of these non-GAAP financial measures to GAAP results can be found in the press release issued earlier today. Some of the non-GAAP financial measures management will discuss are defined as follows. Net revenue is defined as revenue less repair payments. Adjusted operating margin is defined as operating margin excluding amortization of intangible assets, share-based compensation, acquisition-related expenses or benefits, and impairment of goodwill and intangible assets. We are also excluding costs related to our ADS program termination and costs associated with the transition to voluntarily reporting on U.S. domestic issuer forms. Adjusted net income, or ANI, is defined as profit excluding amortization of intangible assets, share-based compensation, acquisition-related expenses or benefits, goodwill, and intangible asset impairments, ADS program termination costs, the transition to voluntarily reporting on U.S. domestic issuer forms, and all associated taxes. These terms will be used throughout the call today. I would now like to turn the call over to WNS's CEO, Keshav Murugesh. Keshav?
spk05: Hey, thank you, David, and good morning, everyone. In the fiscal first quarter, WNS's financial results were in line with company expectations, posting net revenue of $312.4 million. Now, this represents a year-over-year decrease of 1.6% on a reported basis and a 1.8% reduction on a constant currency basis. Sequentially, net revenue decreased by 4.1% on a reported basis and by 3.9% on a constant currency basis after adjusting for Forex. Demand continues to be healthy for business transformation initiatives, leveraging digital and analytics, while certain client volumes and project-based work remain pressured. During the first quarter, we added eight new logos, including one large transformational deal, and expanded 36 existing relationships. In the fiscal first quarter, our ongoing efforts to improve access to capital and increase share price stability made significant progress. As discussed last quarter, on March 28th, the company reached its first major milestone, exchanging our ADSs for ordinary shares. This change helped facilitate WNS's addition to the Russell 2000 Index on June 28th. In addition, effective this quarter, we have voluntarily transitioned to domestic FIDR status and are reporting our financials under US GAAP. This transition should enable WNS to access additional index fund complexes, improve ESG visibility, and make our financials more consistent with peers. With respect to capital allocation, on May 30th, WNS held an extraordinary general meeting where our shareholders overwhelmingly approved repurchases of up to 4.1 million ordinary shares. The company began executing against these plans in early June, buying back over 1.6 million shares in fiscal first quarter at a total cost of $84.2 million, and we will be continuing our repurchase programs in Q2. As AI and Gen AI continue to be important themes for our clients, shareholders, as well as employees, we wanted to provide some additional color on our efforts in these areas. We continue to see that WNS's ability to combine domain, data, and digital is resonating well with clients, and that our industry-specific and process-specific knowledge remains the key to unlocking the power of data and technology. From a technology perspective, as we have discussed, WNS has significant experience and a proven track record of leveraging artificial intelligence in our services as well as solutions. In fact, the company has now been delivering AI projects for more than 15 years, utilizing quantitative analytics as well as machine learning algorithms to help improve outcomes. Later, the company introduced the WLS Analytics and Decision Engine Framework, or WADE, which combined multiple components of an AI solution, including data sourcing, data correlation and virtualization, data analysis and machine learning modeling and a presentation layer into a single compact structure. Since then, the breadth and depth of our AI capabilities have continued to progress, embedding the power of deep learning and big data into our offerings. WNS has been invested in employee training as well as reskilling launched AI co-creation labs to drive innovation and form strategic partnerships with leading technology firms, including the three major hyperscalers. We have also now created best practice consulting frameworks for leveraging ethical AI across strategy, data management, governance, as well as business outcomes. As a result of all these efforts, in fiscal 2024, Approximately one-third of company revenue was delivered with AI as a component of the solution. Today, WNS's AI practice has approximately 7,000 resources globally, and we have created over 70 industry-specific AI models. Our extensive experience with AI has provided the foundation for our ability to develop and deploy GenAI use cases as well as solutions which leverage the power of large language models. To date, we have developed over 100 unique GenAI use cases with more than 30 ready for deployment and have integrated GenAI into eight of our WNS proprietary digital assets. We have now successfully implemented GenAI solutions for six of our clients. and currently have an additional 11 installations in progress. Several of our recent client wins include GenAI as a key element of the overall solution, and we estimate that in fiscal 2025, 5% or more of total company revenue will have a GenAI component. Increasingly, clients are looking for partners who can help them drive technology-led process transformation to deliver superior outcomes, great customer experiences, and maximize business impact. These initiatives are larger in size, strategic, complex, and disruptive in nature, and require executive-level support. To capitalize on this evolving trend, over the past 18 months, WNS has increased our organizational focus on elevating our relationships to the highest levels of client organizations and properly positioning our end-to-end transformational capabilities. Some of the key investments include the addition of six senior level vertically aligned chief growth officers focused on driving large deals, the expansion of our regional sales model into continental Europe and Canada to help build in-country relationships, and the hiring of a global head of advisory to drive WNS's positioning with the analyst and advisor community and help identify captive carve-out opportunities. We've also upgraded the sales team, including strategic hires for consultative selling across technology enablement and domain expertise. And as a result, over the past five quarters, the WNS sales force has grown by 16%. In addition, WNS announced last month that we have added a new head of strategic growth initiatives responsible for establishing CXO level relationships for WNS and expanding our geographic reach. This executive position is working closely with our chief growth officer, business unit heads, and myself to engage directly with CSOs, understand and address their critical business challenges, and create new and exciting opportunities for WNS. Our focused approach is already bearing fruit in the form of large deal signings and a material increase in our large deal pipeline. As discussed last quarter, the company closed four large deals in fiscal Q4, and in the fiscal first quarter, we added one more large deal and made good progress on several others. Our pipeline now includes more than 20 large deals, each over $10 million in ACV, which have the potential to close this fiscal year. These deals total more than $400 million in ACV and we believe WNS is well positioned for success in many of these opportunities. In summary, demand for digital transformation and cost reduction initiatives remain healthy and our new business pipeline has expanded to record levels. At the time, At the same time, fiscal full-year 2025 visibility continues to be challenged by the timing of large deals and the macro uncertainty, which is impacting business volumes and project-based work. WNS remains focused on accelerating profitable growth and investing in AI as well as Gen AI. We are confident that these strategic initiatives are well underway. and that successful execution through the remainder of this year will position the company well entering fiscal 2026. In addition, we remain committed to investing ahead of the curve in technology-enabled offerings, leveraging AI as well as GenAI, improving our access to capital and opportunistically repurchasing stock. I would now like to turn the call over to our CFO, Sanjay Puria, to further discuss our results as well. Sanjay.
spk07: Thank you, Keshav. As mentioned earlier, in fiscal quarter one, we have voluntarily shifted from foreign private issuer status reporting under IFRS to domestic filer status reporting under US GAAP and will be filing or first form 10Q in the coming weeks. In a press release issued on July 9th, WNS provided US GAAP historical financials and reconciliations to previously reported IFRS numbers for fiscal 2023 and fiscal 2024. We have also provided additional detail including restated fiscal 2022 financials in our quarterly metrics file posted on the company website this morning. All of the numbers discussed today will be on a US GAAP basis. In the fiscal first quarter, WNS net revenue came in at $312.4 million, down 1.6% from $317.5 million posted in the same quarter of last year and down 1.8% on a constant currency basis. Sequentially, net revenue decreased by 4.1% on a reported basis and 3.9% on a constant currency basis. The sequential revenue decline was driven by volume reductions with certain clients, continued weakness in discretionary projects based revenues, the impact of our annual productivity improvements and unfavorable currency movements. Quarter 1 volume reductions were primarily in the OTA or online travel sector and were greater than expected in our April guidance. In this phase, we must continue to expect transaction volumes and client forecasts to be highly volatile given macro exposure. company-specific challenges, and the potential risks and opportunities from automation. These headwinds were partially offset by healthy demand for digitization and cost-reduction-focused initiatives. In the first quarter, WNS recorded $0.6 million of short-term, high-margin revenue. Existed operating margin in quarter one was 18.4%, as compared to 20.1% last year and 20.9% last quarter. Year-over-year, adjusted operating margins decreased as a result of lower revenue and employee utilization and higher SG&A levels associated with marketing programs, sales hiring, large healthcare client ramp-down costs, and bad debt. These headwinds were partially offset by improved productivity and favorable currency movements. Sequentially, margin reduced as a result of lower volume, the impact of annual productivity commitments, the higher quarter one SG&A levels, and unfavorable currency movements. The company's net other income expense was $0.3 million of net expense in the first quarter as compared to $1.5 million of net income in Q1 of fiscal 2024 and $0.8 million of net income last quarter. Both year-over-year and sequentially, the unfavorable variance is the result of higher debt levels and lower cash balances driven primarily by our share repurchase. In addition, year-over-year results were adversely impacted by $0.8 million of non-recurring interest income on tax refunds recorded last year. WNS effective tax rate for quarter one came in at 23.1% as compared to 21.7% last year and in the prior quarter. Both year-over-year and sequentially, Changes in the effective tax rate were driven by our geographical profit mix and the percentage of work delivered from tax incentive facilities. The company's adjusted net income for quarter one was $44 million compared with $51.1 million in the same quarter of fiscal 2024 and $53.9 million last quarter. Adjusted diluted earnings were 0.93 cents per share in Q1, down from $1.02 in the first quarter of last year and from $1.12 last quarter. As of June 30, 2024, WNS balances in cash and investments totaled $301.5 million and the company had $301.5 million in debt. In the first quarter, WNS generated $21.4 million of cash from operating activities, incurred $10.7 million in capital expenditures, and made debt repayment of $10.5 million. The company also repurchased 1,644,000 shares of stock at an average price of $51.24, which impacted Q1 cash by $78 million. DSO in the first quarter came in at 36 days as compared to 34 days reported in Q1 of last year and 33 days last quarter. With respect to other key operating metrics, Total headcount at the end of the first quarter was 60,513 and our attrition rate was 34% as compared to 32% reported in quarter 1 of last year and 33% in the previous quarter. We expect attrition to average in the low to mid 30% range but the rate could remain volatile quarter to quarter in the current labor environment. Bill sheet capacity at the end of the quarter one increased to 41,676 and WNS averaged 71% work from office during the quarter. In our press release issued earlier today, WNS provided our revised full year guidance for fiscal 2025 based on the company's current visibility level we expect net revenue to be in the range of $1,290,000,000 to $1,354,000,000 representing year-over-year growth of 0 to 5% on both reported basis and constant currency basis. As Keshav mentioned, guidance factor in known client ramp down and reduced visibility to client volumes and discretionary projects. Guidance does not include short-term revenues, incremental revenue from over large insurance captive or an improvement in the macro environment. Top line projection assumes an average British pound to US dollar exchange rate of 1.28 for the remainder of the fiscal year. Full year adjusted net income for fiscal 2025 is expected to be in the range of $203 million to $215 million, based on a $83.4 to US dollar exchange rate for the remainder of fiscal 2025. This implies adjusted EPS of $4.42 to $4.68, assuming a diluted share count of approximately 45.9 million shares. Excluding the 21 cents of one-time benefit to tax and interest income in fiscal 2024, the midpoint of guidance represents an 8% increase in adjusted EPS. With respect to capital expenditures, WNS currently expects our requirement for fiscal 2025 to be up to $65 million. We'll now open the call for questions. Operator?
spk19: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question at this time, please press star 11 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. If your question has been answered or you wish to remove yourself from the queue, please press star 11 again. In the interest of time and to enable everyone on the call to participate, please limit your queries to one question and one follow-up. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. And the first question comes from Ryan Potter with Citi. Your line is now open.
spk08: Hey, thanks for taking my question. I just wanted to start on the kind of large deal execution. I know last quarter you mentioned that you signed four large deals, and this quarter you've already signed one. Could you give some color on how those ramps of these large deals have progressed so far? Was there any revenue contribution from these deals in 1Q? And how much of revenue contribution from the ramps do you expect in 2Q? And then of the one large deal you signed in 1Q, how does that compare versus your initial kind of pipeline conversion expectations?
spk10: Yeah, I'll answer that question, Ryan. You know, the four large deals, that we signed in Q4 had minimal revenue contribution in Q1, insignificant, which is what we expected. These deals, though, are staffed. They are ramping. They're a big part of the story in terms of the offset in our fiscal second quarter to the large healthcare ramp down that we see coming. And the expectation is that those four large deals should be reaching steady state, if not early, then towards the end of fiscal Q3. Relative to the one large deal that we signed in the first quarter, no contribution in Q1 and minimal contribution expected in Q2. I think we continue to see good progress, as Kashif mentioned in his prepared remarks on these large deals. Given the complexity and the business impact and the level of disruptions that they create, obviously the timing is something that we don't have a ton of visibility to, but having the large number of large deals that we have now in the pipeline and the expanding number of large deals that we have in the pipeline gives us good confidence about our ability to close some of these deals here in Q2 and again in Q3.
spk08: Got it. I guess maybe kind of following up on that and the visibility comment, it seems like the second half kind of assumes a relatively sharp kind of revenue growth acceleration. I mean, it's based on my math. Maybe it's a little bit off, but what gives you confidence in this implied second half? Is it continuing to close these large deals? Is it some improvement in kind of client volumes? I guess what needs to happen to hit the low end of that look versus the top end for the full year?
spk10: Sure. So I think first and foremost, it's important to understand that when you look at our guidance for fiscal 25, the assumption for Q2 is that revenue will be relatively flat. We're looking at roughly a $13.5 million sequential ramp down because of the loss of the large healthcare client that we need to make up. So if you look at the underlying growth and momentum in the business, even in fiscal Q2, it's extremely healthy. As I mentioned, we don't expect to see a full quarter's worth of revenue from the four large deals that were signed in Q4, in Q2. So that ramp continues into Q3, plus everything that we've sold in Q1 and Q2. So I think we're pretty comfortable with the build. There is nothing assumed in terms of incremental volume from existing clients in Q3 and Q4. As a matter of fact, we've assumed continued weakness in those volumes, particularly in the travel space in Q3 and Q4. So our goal here obviously is to try and provide a forecast that's realistic, but also somewhat de-risked from that perspective. As we said last quarter, we expected volume declines in the travel space. They actually came in worse than what we expected. But to the extent that we can, we've tried to de-risk this. We've looked at the client forecasts. We've tried to be conservative about what they've provided us. But essentially, it's the expansion of existing relationships in terms of new process additions. It's the sale of small and medium-sized deals, which remains healthy, that gives us confidence in the back half of the year. And then obviously, we need to close some of these large deals to meet those numbers. But our expectation is given. the large number of these deals and the size of these deals that we should be able to do that here in Q2 and Q3. Great.
spk16: Thanks again.
spk19: And one moment for the next question. The next question will come from SurrenderSan with Jeffrey. Your line is open.
spk21: Thank you. I'd like to start with a question on the Gen A AI implementations that you guys have done or deployed to date. Are you able to provide any color on the relative benefit that the client is seeing, or put another way, the impact of revenue that you guys are experiencing in terms of the productivity improvement and how those are being made up?
spk10: Sure, Surinder. So I think when you look at the breadth of the Gen AI use cases that we've implemented and the deals where we've put Gen AI to use at this point, We have not seen any revenue pressure. The reality is the goals of the deals that we've signed and the goals of the existing clients where we've leveraged these tools to date has been more about expanded benefits than it has been looking for clients to take out costs. Overall, while there's been productivity on some of these, the goals from our clients are more about customer satisfaction, new revenue streams, looking at ways for them to retain and attract new clients. So I don't think when you look at the revenue impacts from these today, they've all been additive for us they haven't been negative to date now again it's not to say that we don't expect to see some level of pressure over time as gen ai implementations at scale start to get put in but the the niche solutions that we're leveraging today tend to be more additive to wns's revenues and capabilities than than negative that's helpful and then uh i
spk21: The question about just attrition and the commentary around maybe it being a bit more volatile, any color that you can provide there that helps us understand the dynamics?
spk10: I think just more surrender about the overall environment and the fact that quarter to quarter, those numbers do tend to move. When we came out of COVID, we obviously had a significantly elevated attrition rate we were running in the low forties. And we knew that was not going to be a sustainable attrition rate for the company. We've gotten down to kind of more normal levels over time. We've been, you know, as low as 28%, we've been as high as 35, 36. I think it's more just to set the expectation that, you know, putting up a 34% attrition rate, like we did this quarter versus, you know, 33 or 32 or 35, It's not something that's unusual. So, you know, we do, as Keisha said in his prepared remarks, I'm sorry, as Sanjay said in the prepared remarks, we do expect that attrition rate to be relatively stable in the low to mid-30s. But overall, on a quarter-to-quarter basis, that number can move around. Thank you.
spk19: One moment for the next question. The next question comes from Brian Bergen with TD Cohen. Your line is now open.
spk02: Hi, thank you. I wanted to ask on the large deal. So just curious if there is some reliance on winning a handful of those still as you forecast the 25 growth outlook. And then just more broadly, there seems to be more large deals here that we're talking about. Is this an overall expansion of the market or really the company specific benefits that you see based on that strong sales headcount growth?
spk05: Yeah, Brian, thank you. That's a good question. So know i think the you know what is exciting about some of these large deals is they are essentially a result of the investments that wns has now been making over the past few quarters in particular uh the the focus that we brought into this area over the last you know year or a year and a half or so and the fact that we hired and invested significantly behind some real solid talent across each of our sales functions as well as the business units. And I think what is interesting is that the change that we're seeing is we are now interacting with, first and foremost, CSO level community and people who do not have budgets to provide, but more importantly, who have to deliver impact to the street. So these are CEOs, CFOs and chief operating officers and that provides one. Second thing is in most cases, these are deals being created where there was no deal when the discussion started. So these are not the traditional kind of deals that come through the advisor networks or through the analyst community. And obviously with this high impact sales team, and the investments we made on the vertical side, we continue to invest very strongly in those channels. But the reality is a lot of these large deals are new creations being created directly by some of these new leaders that we have brought in as well as this new exciting journey that we have embarked on. So that's one. The second thing I will say is From our point of view, it's exciting to see a scale-up in the number of these deals. We're happy with the five deals that we won between last quarter as well as this quarter. We're also delighted to see a lot of the other deals making good progress at this point in time. In fact, of those 20 deals, a few of those deals are at very advanced stages. Our expectation is over the next quarter and the following quarters, we'll start seeing more of these which will result in not just momentum for 25, but more importantly, position the company strongly for 2026. So I'm really excited about this initiative. And while all this is happening, the bread and butter in terms of hunting and farming, the traditional revenue sources is not at all flagging.
spk10: And I think just to add to that, you know, to your specific question, Brian, about the need for large deals to meet the guidance. You know, the answer is obviously yes. You know, we do need a couple of these deals to come through. But again, I think the comfort and the confidence in being able to do that lies in, to Keisha's point, the size of the large deal pipeline, right? I mean, to convert two or three large deals out of a pipeline of more than 20 is not exactly a hit rate that we would be proud of as an organization. So we think the opportunity is clearly there for that to happen.
spk02: All right, understood. And then on the travel vertical, so just can we talk a little bit more on the volume pressure? Is it broad-based across the portfolio or more concentrated in the kind of cohort of larger travel clients? I know you've talked about a larger OTA client.
spk24: Just curious if there's signs of relief in any of the larger cohort here.
spk11: Yeah, so I'll take a first cut at that.
spk10: And, you know, our agent can join in here as well and give some color on the travel space. You know, I think overall, Brian, you know, we're dealing with multiple headwinds that are affecting the revenue portfolio in the travel space. And particularly, I think it's important to note that where we're seeing the pressure is fundamentally in the OTA or the online travel space where we have a high degree of customer service or CX exposure. So we know that business is always gonna be more volatile than for example, our airline business where we do a lot of operations management or a lot of finance and accounting related activities. That being said, what we're seeing that the pressure is across the entire OTA portfolio. And it's driven by a number of different things. Some of it is macro related, some of it is client strategy change, some of it is mix of business, And some of it is we're starting to see clients get a little bit more aggressive about pushing certain types of transactions to automated channels. Now, again, that's not to be confused with Gen AI. This is more about clients redirecting certain types of services to chatbots and automated channels that historically have been done through voice-based channels. You know, in terms of the volume reductions that we've seen, I think the expectation is that we have to continue to see pressure in this space until something happens differently, right? We also know that coming out of the pandemic, there was a right sizing that needed to take place for the OTA business. So lots of things going on here. It's been a consistent pressure across the last year and a half in this space. The good news is I think at this point we've meaningfully de-risked it. I mean, our OTA revenues in the first quarter were less than 5% of total company revenue. So the hope is here that while we may continue to see some pressure throughout the rest of the year, the bottom line is the ability to impact us in fiscal 25 and the ability to impact us potentially going forward as things like productivity and AI and Gen AI continue to infuse themselves is also reducing.
spk06: Yeah. Having said that, the good part also is that some of the large deals that Keshav talked about, we are seeing a lot of traction amongst clients in travel. And as we go forward, we believe that the mix of business will move from OTA into other areas of travel, which also will make this revenue a lot more stickier. And therefore, that's what we're working on as well. Okay, thank you.
spk19: One moment for the next question. The next question comes from Nate Stevenson with Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.
spk15: Hi, guys. Thanks for the question. I had a two-parter on the insurance vertical. So I think previously you talked about the volume impact from a couple of insurance clients who are exiting a few key geographies and it looks like insurance revenues decelerated pretty materially in the quarter. So just wondering if you can give an update on the volumes in the insurance vertical more generally, and then kind of what you expect from that business to the remainder of the year. And then the follow-up there is just any update on the insurance captive. I think last time you spoke, you talked about something like, I don't know, 25% of the phase two revenues with 75% of that opportunity outstanding. So how are things progressing on the captive front as well?
spk10: Sure. So when you look at the insurance revenues in the first quarter, a couple of things. Clearly, as we had alluded to and as we saw in the first quarter, volumes were impacted for specifically three or four of our larger clients as they look to exit what I would call lower profit businesses. So for U.S. insurers, this is the impact of having fewer claims and fewer policies enforced. as they've gotten out of states like Florida, California, and Louisiana based on the number of disasters and the inability to charge premiums. Now, again, our hope here is that over the next three to six months, we'll see some relief there. I do believe that there is now more of an ability for them to charge. in those areas. So hopefully we start to see some of those volumes come back. But the expectation is that at least at this point, the volumes in that space should be fairly stable. The issue in the UK that we have on the insurance side was a proactive decision that one of our clients made from a strategic perspective to get out of kind of the low-end regional broker channels and focus on high net worth types of activities so uh we should have also seen that impact uh already in the numbers and have anniversary did but overall i think we expect the insurance space will uh will be a good growth engine kind of as we move throughout the rest of the year but let's give you some color on that yeah thanks dave so like dave said you know um i think we are very focused in terms of growing the insurance business
spk06: If you recall, one of the large clients who worked in Q4 was actually in this space. And again, you're seeing a lot of traction. The sales pipeline is related to insurance clients. And that's why we are quite confident that going forward, this sector for us will grow significantly.
spk10: And that being said, to the second part of your question, we have not included anything new relative to the large insurance captive. We continue to have good, healthy discussions with them, not only about the rest of the phase two of our relationship that still has yet to ramp up, but also about new opportunities that we can take over within their portfolio. So I'd say that remains an opportunity, obviously not one that would be included in the large deal pipeline and not one that's included in guidance either. So the sooner we can get some closure on some of those pieces of business and get them ramping that has the ability to materially impact fiscal 25 and fiscal 26.
spk15: Got it. I appreciate the color there. So for my follow-up question, it's great to see the increased buyback authorization and sort of lower share count assumptions. I guess, can you give color on the cadence of that expected buyback through the remainder of the year? Is that going to be maybe more weighted to 2Q or the back half, or is it just you're going to be more opportunistic? And then I guess the the more general follow-up on capital allocation more generally is, I guess, what are your thoughts on M&A given the new buyback assumptions? You know, we've lapped the acquisitions, you know, a couple of quarters ago at this point. So just thoughts on buybacks, thoughts on M&A and other capital allocation more generally going forward.
spk06: Yeah, so our buyback program, as you recall, the prepared remarks was initiated, was already started in Q1. And the program continues, will continue to Q2. We think currently our entire buyback should be concluded by quarter two. We have a plan that's out and we're looking to buy back almost 2.5 billion shares by the end of quarter two. From our capital allocation program, M&A continues to be a focus area for us. We are on the lookout for strategic tuck-in M&As that we think will give us a capability addition to our portfolio. Having said that, our capital allocation, if you recall, is on four pillars. So M&A continues to be a core pillar. Share repurchases, which are underway. We have capital allocation. CapEx expenditure is almost $65 million for this year we plan. And we have scheduled debt repayment that's also planned for this year.
spk05: Yeah, and I'll just add here that we continue to be very confident about our business. We continue to make all the investments in each one of the core areas that we have to be investing in at this point in time we realize that there are a few non-recurring kind of headwinds but nothing that is underlying the growth themes that the company you know is after at this point in time and and therefore you know if you leave out those you know one-timers uh which are headwinds that we spoke about earlier both for 2024 as well as 2025 growth is more or less in double digits And therefore, from our point of view, as far as capital allocation goes, we believe that our stock is underpriced. And therefore, we will continue to progress with our buybacks.
spk14: Thanks for the call. I appreciate it.
spk19: One moment for the next question. The next question comes from Maggie Nolan with William Blair. Your line is open.
spk22: Hi, thank you. What are your expectations for the cadence of operating margin over the course of the year, given some of the moving parts on revenue and some of the cost considerations you discussed?
spk10: Yeah, so I'll take that one, Maggie. I think the expectation in Q2 at this point in time, as we have the ramp down in the large healthcare clients and the ramp up of the large deals, from Q4 particularly, right? As I mentioned earlier, the expectation is that revenue sequentially will be relatively flat. I think the expectation on the margin side is also that we will be relatively flat from Q1 to Q2. So I think overall Q1 and Q2 are going to look a lot alike. The opportunity for margin expansion as we move into Q3 and Q4 is leveraging those investments that Keisha spoke about, right-sizing the headcount based on the ramp ups and the ramp downs that we have taking place in Q2, and then the normal productivity that tends to work its way through our P&L across the four quarters of the year based on our ability to digest the annual productivity improvements and the wage increases. So, you know, kind of a normal cadence other than the fact that, you know, I think Q1 came in a little bit higher than we had expected, which is a good thing. The expectation is that it'll be flattish to Q2, but then we should see as we move through the back half of the year and revenue starts to re-accelerate, we should be able to see operating leverage and margins improve.
spk22: Thank you. And I believe in the prepared remarks you said in 2025 you're expecting 5% or more of revenue will have a generative AI component to it. Are those types of engagements going to be structured differently than your typical engagement in the past that did not have a generative AI component, or is there anything else unique about those contracts that we should be considering?
spk10: I think it's a combination of things, Maggie. I think in some cases, we're putting generative AI capabilities into existing processes that we manage to help make them more efficient, to help drive different kinds of results and different kinds of behaviors. And in those cases, I don't expect a material change to how we're going to charge or how the relationship is going to be in the short run. I think for some of the newer deals where we're seeing meaningful components of Gen AI as part of the service and solution, We are seeing more non-FTE types of relationships put into place, whether that's transaction-based or outcome-based or gain-sharing kind of based. But I think, as we've spoken about in the past, as the Gen AI services and solutions go more mainstream, as we implement them more at scale across a customer base and start relationships with Gen AI types of capabilities, The expectation is that our portfolio of work should shift more toward non-FTE structures than what we've historically seen. So our expectation is that while, again, that creates some risk that comes with gain sharing, it also creates margin opportunity for us.
spk17: Thank you.
spk10: Thank you.
spk19: One moment for the next question. The next question comes from Puneet Jain with J.P. Morgan. Your line is open.
spk12: Hey, thanks for taking my question. Are you seeing any changes in client behavior, specifically as they try and understand, assess how Gen AI impact their business processes? I'm assuming the large deals you are signing, like they do not include any benefits from GenAI or any potential applications of GenAI at this point.
spk05: So Punit, thanks for the question. So I think the first thing is clients continue to be focused on whatever is strategic for themselves. So whether it is, you know, leadership whether it is the transformation you know kind of areas whether it is you know which is the right partner for them to help them navigate the opportunity and potentially whatever theft that they see through Jenny I that's really their focus one of the things that we have seen over the past you know few quarters is the general height that we saw around general generative AI at least from a client point of view, has subsided, has given me way to much more focus around the ecosystem outside, the economic situation, the challenges they're facing with their business, and how they can leverage strategic partners like us in terms of just delivering what they need to deliver to their shareholders. So we're back to cost impact, digital transformation, as well as safety of the right partner who brings digital domain and data all together to deliver the outcomes. Now, obviously, AI and generative AI continue to be a very important theme in that. And therefore, they're picking their partners in terms of who are the right people who understand their business, who understand data better, and who can, when the time is right, provide the right solutions and outcomes you know, for them. And in this scheme of things, as we look at some of the large deal pipeline that we're talking about, obviously we are looking at leveraging some of the generative AI infused solutions that we anyway have, right? And that is what gives us confidence that while the client is still, you know, figuring out how they want to deal with some of this, they also have a lot of comfort and confidence that WNS has through its offering program, infused all of these solutions into the, you know, outcome-based kind of solutions that we are providing for them. So you have to assume that all of these solutions are, you know, digital-led, technology-led, transformation-led, very heavy on domain, but also have a mix of generative AI as a result of which we're able to provide them outstanding, you know, pricing and outcome-based models.
spk10: Yeah, and just to add a little color to Keshav's comment, Puneet, Two of the four large deals that we signed in Q4 have a Gen AI component, one in the insurance space, one in the shipping and logistics space. But to Keisha's point, I think what's most important is to understand that clients don't come to us and say they want an AI or a Gen AI solution. What they're doing is they're coming to us saying they want a solution to a business problem. How we deliver that for them is far less important than the business results we're capable of delivering.
spk12: Understood, understood. No, that's good to know and thanks for that detailed answer. I'd like to follow up on Maggie's questions on margins, like with this gap reporting from here on, like I guess like some of the lease expenses will move above the line. So how should we think about margins, like for this year, for the entire year, adjusted operating margin levels as well as beyond this year?
spk06: Yeah, so let me take that. So if you look at from IFRS to US GAAP perspective, you know, adjusted operating margin would trend about 1% lower. However, having said that, the interest cost that we'd also see would be lower by almost 1.1%. So at the ANI level, we are seeing a very marginal increase of 10 basis points. And some of that will flow into the EPS to about 3 to 4 cents impact from IFRS to US GAAP.
spk10: Yeah, so in general, I think the expectation now would be that overall adjusted operating margin will run 100 basis points lower than it used to, right? I think we're still 20% plus in terms of adjusted operating margins, which keeps us in an industry-leading position. But the reality is, instead of running, for example, this year in a 21 to 22 range, we're going to be running in a 20 to a 21 range.
spk07: And maybe, Punita, I'll just add, it's just a reclassification. Overall ANI is just neutral, in fact, positive. It has just moved from operating margin you know, before interest line, which is like, if you see, there is always an operating margin after interest. It just does record reclassification, specifically the lease charges, you know, from bottom to the top. So overall, net to net, it's neutral. But yes, you know, on the operating margin line, it's 100% impact at this stage.
spk12: Got it. Now I understand like the reclassification. So quickly, if I can quickly ask like about this year's margin. So the first half, you will be 18 and a half, give or take. So do you feel confident that, like, with revenue growth, with everything, like, you can get to 20% plus margins for the entire year?
spk11: Yes. Yes.
spk12: Got it. Thank you.
spk19: One moment for the next question. The next question comes from Dave Koning with Bayard. Your line is open.
spk13: Yeah. Hey, guys. Thank you. And just to kind of review, you know, the obviously four verticals, health care will step down next quarter and be down pretty significantly year over year the rest of the year. Which verticals are going to make up for it and see what seems like pretty big, you know, sequential step ups the next couple of quarters and year over year as well? Like, where should we really see that from a vertical basis?
spk10: Sure. So I think, you know, as you rightly say, Dave, obviously Q2 is going to be a challenge for us primarily because of the healthcare vertical ramp down and the ongoing challenges that we see in the travel space. So, you know, with that kind of in mind, when you look at where the opportunities are, we talked about the ramp up in insurance in Q2 based on the large deal that we signed in Q4. We're going to talk about a ramp up in Q2 and into Q3 in the shipping and logistics space, which we believe will be one of our leading verticals for this fiscal year. When you look at the high-tech professional services vertical, that should be a growth engine for us, as well as utilities, which has been on a really nice trend over the last four or five quarters. So I think overall the business should be very, very healthy across most of our verticals with the exception of travel and healthcare.
spk13: Gotcha. Okay. No, thank you. That's helpful. And then one other thing just noticed that the largest client was up pretty substantially year over year. I know it's not huge. It's maybe five, 6% of total revs, but it was up mid twenties percent or so year over year. What, what was that? And is that sustainable?
spk10: Yeah, I think it is, right? So we've got a client who is expanding their relationship with us. They've been a client and a really good client and a top five client for an extended period of time, but we found new ways to engage with them. We found other things to do with them. We're seeing volume increases with this customer. So overall, the relationship is healthy and it's helping you see it largely impacting our utility space. Gotcha.
spk13: Thanks, guys. Thanks, Dave.
spk19: Thank you. One moment for the next question. The next question comes from Vincent Coliccio with Barrington Research. Your line is open.
spk03: Yes. I think your case of your headcount increased 1% sequentially. Could you help us understand how your headcount may grow relative to revenue growth for the balance of the year?
spk06: Yeah, so from a headcount perspective, the reason why headcount grew was, you know, we've had some, because the Q4 wins, we've had to ramp up some headcount to account for the increase in Q2. You know, Dave also mentioned that, you know, in Q2, we will have the reduction in the healthcare client. And therefore, utilization of headcount would, you know, has been low in Q1. And we expect that to improve as we go into Q2 and Q3 onwards, and as we start ramping up other deals as well. So from a headcount perspective, I think that's the reason why Q1 came in slightly higher versus Q4. But as we go forward in the year and as the healthcare client ramps down, I think you will see a more steady increase in headcount versus revenue.
spk10: Yeah, I think the other thing that's important, Vince, and I'm glad you brought it up, the ramp down that we're going to see in Q2 relative to the healthcare client was a heavily technology-enabled set of services. So the reality is what you're going to see is a disproportionate ramp down in revenue relative to a ramp down in headcount. This is going to affect, for the full year, it's going to affect our revenue per employee metrics. But essentially, to reaccelerate that growth and to reaccelerate it based on the four deals that we signed in Q4, the one we signed in Q1, and the deals that are in the large deal pipeline, we're going to need to be aggressively hiring through the rest of the year.
spk03: And, Keshav, kudos to your investments in the sales side. I mean, the increase in transformational deals in the pipeline looks fairly impressive. Are you expecting that pipeline to continue to expand for transformational deals as the year progresses?
spk05: Yeah, Vince, first of all, thank you for that compliment about its, you know, because of the new restructuring that we did in terms of our corporate, you know, kind of structure, as well as the fit goes to all the, you know, people managing each of the strategic business units and sales of this company. So it's all in their credit. But having said that, I must tell you, this is the new way of business for WS for the long term. So not only will, you know, we will continue to focus on building new large transformational deal impact. But I think over a period of time, as each of these deals come to fruition, I think there's a new discipline and there's a new excitement of creating this pipeline, which I think will carry well into 2026 and 2027. I think that's what is the most exciting area of growth for WNS. And again, I just want to underline the fact that these are deals being created where there is no deal. you know, that is coming in the market. It is actually coming as a result of our senior people interacting with decision makers on the other side, understanding their pain points, understanding the value proposition that they would like to have, and then crafting a solution on a win-win basis, leveraging the best of WNS, digital, domain, AI, generative AI, and outcome-based, you know, impacts of pricing.
spk10: And one other point I'd like to make, Vince, and it's subtle, but I think it's important. We've historically, as a company, talked about large deals as being $5 million plus in ACV, or annual contract value. The 20 plus deals that Keshav spoke about in his prepared remarks are all more than $10 million in ACV. So the reality is we still have You know, what we considered historically to be large deals in the pipeline, we still have expansion opportunities in the pipeline. But this very large deal pipeline and, you know, several of them having moved down a path over the last couple of quarters here, the last several quarters, is something that's very new for us. And it's really in addition to what we've historically seen as opposed to in place of.
spk03: Thanks, guys.
spk10: Thanks, Vince.
spk19: At this time we have no further questions in the queue. This will conclude today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.
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