Akzo Nobel Nv Ord New

Hello, everyone. Welcome to today's Axo Nobel third quarter results for 2025. My name is Seb, and I'll be the operator for your call today. If you would like to ask a question during the Q&A session, please press star one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw from the queue, please press star two. I will now hand over to Kenny Che, head of investor relations, to begin the call. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Good morning and welcome to Axel Nobel's Investor Update for the third quarter of 2025. I'm Kenny Che, Head of Investor Relations. Today, our CEO, Greg Puglione, and CFO, Martin DeVries, will take you through our results. We'll refer to the presentation, which you can follow by webcast or download from our website at axelnobel.com. A replay of the webcast will also be made available following the event. There will be a Q&A session after the presentation. For additional information, please contact our Investor Relations team. Before we start, a reminder of our forward-looking statements disclaimer on slide two. Please note, this also applies to the conference call and answers to your questions. I will now hand over to Greg, who will start on slide three of the presentation.

Thanks, Kenny. Good morning to everyone on the call. Axel Nobel delivered a solid quarter in a weak market environment. We remain focused on the elements we control, efficiency, pricing discipline, and cash generation. and these continue to deliver results. Our adjusted EBITDA came in at €385 million, or €411 million excluding Forex translation. This corresponds to a 15.1% margin, up 30 basis points year-on-year. That's very much in line with the consensus and demonstrates our ability to expand margins despite external headwinds. Volumes were down 1% versus prior year, showing a similar pattern to Q2. DECO performed well with a return to growth of plus 1%, while coatings continued to be affected by soft markets, particularly in North America. Operationally, we achieved net OPEC savings of 63 million euros year-to-date, which is ahead of the plan. Free cash flow strengthened significantly to 244 million euros, driven by improved working capital managements. Leverage improved to 2.8 times, with year-end leverage projected slightly above 2 times on an adjusted basis, following the expected closing of the India transaction in December. Overall, we're executing with discipline and consistency towards our mid-term ambitions in a market which doesn't make it easy. Let's now turn to slide 4. Our structural efficiency programs are delivering ahead of plan and our disposal of part of our Indian activities is on track to close in Q4, as I said. As you know, we have aggressive efficiency targets in both SG&A and industrial operations. Our SG&A program is now fully implemented with annualized savings increased to at least 175 million euros, which is materially ahead of our original targets. We have already reduced our functions by 2,500 positions since the middle of last year, compared to an initial target of 2,200 positions, while maintaining business continuity and service quality. This is significant in terms of speed and impact. Our industrial program continues to progress well. Six factory closures have been announced year-to-date, including one in Q3. Consultations continue as planned, and we will deliver our target for the year. And for the disposal of part of our Indian businesses, of which the lion's share is our local decorative paints business, all necessary regulatory approvals have not been received. We completed a 5% block sale during the quarter at a favorable price, generating about €70 million in net proceeds ahead of the main transaction with JSW. We expect closing in December with proceeds to be used as planned, 500 million euros for deleveraging and 400 million euros for the share buyback, which will start in January. Together, these actions are unlocking cost efficiencies and simplifying our footprint while maintaining strong service levels. Our organization is becoming more agile, purposeful and impactful, which positions us to deliver sustainability, sorry, improved performance. Let's now turn to slide five and talk about the volume development in Q3. Group volumes were down 1% year-on-year in Q3 with mixed performance between DECO and coatings. DECO delivered a solid quarter with volumes up 1% overall. Europe, Middle East, and Africa was flattish with continued weakness in France and Turkey, offset by growth in Southern Europe. Latin America grew low single digits, led by Brazil, where the recovery continues after a slow start to the year. China delivered mid-single-digit growth, confirming our relative outperformance in a weak market. Southeast Asia remained mixed, with strong growth in Vietnam more than offsetting softer demand in Indonesia. So our deco businesses, which are mostly local businesses, are doing well. Our global businesses and coatings, We have volumes overall in coatings down 2% for the quarter year on year, primarily due to the weakness of the North American market. Caliber was impacted by low architectural demand, although Asia is regaining momentum. Marine and protective continue to grow as we execute on a strong pipeline in protective, while ongoing share gains in marine MRO are adding further momentum. Automotive and specialty was lower overall, with aerospace strong, but refinished soft, as North America remains a trough, while Europe demand in vehicle refinished was under pressure. Industrial coatings declined mid-single digits, as a drop in packaging and wood more than offset growth in coil. While market conditions remain challenging overall, our outperformance in selected markets shows that we are holding up and defending our positions. Martin will now provide an update of our financials on slide six. Martin.

Thank you, Greg, and good morning, everybody on the call. At group level, organic sales were up 1%, volumes were down less than 1%, and price mix was up more than 1%. FX Translation had a negative 5% impact on revenue, resulting in a reported revenue decline of 5%. Decorative paints delivered organic growth of plus 2% with continued strong margins at 17.4%. Performance coatings organic sales was down 1% driven by weaker volumes, mainly in North America. Group electricity bidder came in at 385 million euro or 411 million euro at constant FX. EBITDA margin improved to 15.1%, which is 30 bps higher versus prior year. Despite the impact from the strengthening of the euro, both segments continue to deliver strong, solid profitability, reflecting the structural savings from our cost programs and our focus on high quality earnings. We had another strong quarter of free cash flow at €265 million, which puts our year-to-date free cash flow at €161 million higher versus prior year. The improvement was driven by a working capital unwind, including discipline, management of inventory and receivables. DIO was 103 days, an improvement of six days versus last year, and by two days sequentially versus prior quarter. Operating working capital ended the quarter at 16.7% of revenue, down from 17.7% a year ago. Return on investment was stable at 13.3%, reflecting continued solid profitability. Turning now to slide eight. We've taken a 300 million euro provision in Q3 related to this long-running litigation case in Australia. The claim relates to coating degradation on pipework at the ICTIS LNG project in Darwin, Australia. Our coatings were applied between 2013 and 2015. The main plaintiff, impacts initiated legal proceedings in 2021 under Australian Consumer Law, seeking damages from Auction Nobel. We want to emphasise again that Auction Nobel denies all liability and is defending the matter vigorously. Our expectation is for first instance adjustment in the second half of 2026 at the earliest, and appeals are likely regardless of the outcome. We recognize the 300 million euro provision in Q3 2025. This provision relates to the elements in the claims for which the IAS 37 accounting criteria are met. Other elements not meeting the requirements are presented as contingent liabilities. Oxenobel is insured with a maximum coverage of 500 million euro, whether presented as a provision or as a contingent liability. This is obviously a non-cash accounting charge in the quarter. It doesn't affect our operational performance or the underlying momentum of the business, and we remain steadfast in our legal position and defense. With that, back to Greg. Thanks, Morten.

Our full-year adjusted EBITDA is expected to be around 1.48 billion euros, which we remain on track to achieve despite the translation impact from the strengthening of the euro. While markets continue to be challenging, our performance is supported by increased savings from our SG&A and industrial programs. Looking ahead into the fourth quarter, we expect volumes to remain slightly down, reflecting ongoing softness in North America and other select markets. Currency impact on adjusted EBITDA in Q4 is expected to be similar to Q3. Efficiency measures will continue to protect margins, and the underlying cash generation is expected to remain strong, supported by seasonality. Our deleveraging trajectory and capital allocation priorities remain unchanged, including the planned €400 million share buyback following completion of the India transaction. With the India disposal expected to close in December, we anticipate leverage slightly above two times net debt to adjusted EBITDA by the end of 2025. All in all, we continue to deliver on what we control, positioning ExxonMobil well for the next phase of value creation. And I'll now hand over to Kenny, who will close with information about upcoming events, and then we'll open up for questions. Kenny?

Thank you, Greg. Before we start the Q&A session, I would like to draw your attention to the upcoming events shown on slide 10. Ex-dividend date of our 2025 interim dividend of 44 euro cents will be on October 27, followed by record date on October 28. Payment of our 2025 interim dividend will be on November 6, 2025. We will update the market on our fourth quarter and full year results on February 3, 2026. And this concludes the formal presentation and we will be happy to address your questions. Please state your name and company when asking a question and limit the number of questions to two per person so others can participate. Operator, please start the Q&A session.

Thank you. If you'd like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw from the queue, please press star two. Our first question is from James Hooper at Bernstein Society General Group. Please go ahead.

Morning, both. And thank you very much for taking my question. First question. Greg, in the past, you've said your vision and there's going to be more investment in the coatings business before. are you or would you consider kind of separating the deco and coatings business or are there synergies between the two divisions underappreciating the markets? And the kind of side question to that is about the disposals for other of the Asian deco businesses after India and whether there are plans for further. And the kind of second question is about the refinish business. So you mentioned this at the trough in North America and Europe. What gives you confidence at this trough? I mean, the press have been reporting that vehicle insurance prices are up again, probably in the U.S. and U.K. in 2026. Will it be kind of technological development that can counter this if insurance is going to be less likely to follow through on cars? Thank you very much.

Thanks, James. Let me take those one by one. Coatings versus deco, are there synergies would we consider separating? Yeah. I think I've always been clear whenever any of you guys have asked this question that the synergies between coatings and deco are not massive. Deco is mostly a local for local business. The coating businesses are global businesses. Deco is waterborne. The coating businesses are mostly solvent-borne. Deco is B2C. The coating stuff is mostly B2B. The differences are significant, and the factories are fully separated, and the customers are different, and the supply chains are different. So I'm not... I'm not making a very good case for synergies, am I? Now, people usually say, well, there's big procurement synergies. The reality is if you look at the procurement basket in Deco and the procurement basket in Coatings, the overlap is about 25%. So all this to say that the synergies are not very significant. The value of Deco when you have a Coatings business is that that gives you local presence and local infrastructure which you can piggyback on global businesses. So essentially, it allows you to have existing overheads that you can leverage as you roll out the coding businesses around the world. But that really is it. And therefore, if you look at it purely from an economic perspective, There's not a strong case to be made that deco and coatings have to be together. And by the way, you see very successful businesses that are solely coatings and you see very successful businesses that are solely deco. So why are these businesses together? Because if you look at what's been attempted in the past, I think there was an activist that looked at one of our competitors in 2019, and their pitch was we'll separate value codings and deco and create value. And they came to the conclusion that there's no strong evidence that these businesses trade at different multiples. Therefore, you're not liberating trapped value by splitting the businesses up. You're essentially just focusing the portfolio. Where there's a multiple arbitrage is actually in Deco emerging markets versus kind of the rest of the world. And you saw that in our Indian Deco transaction. So all this to say that we have no plans to separate Deco from Coatings. We have a plan to narrow our Deco focus to the countries in which we can win. And we said very clearly that that means pruning that portfolio in Asia because we have a lot of follower positions in Asia that are more valuable to people other than us. And over time, in the context of a wider industry move, you could completely entertain the idea of a combination that would lead to a split between Deco and Coatings. But I think this would have to be linked to gaining scale, further scale in Coatings. So hopefully that answers the question, I think, extensively. And are there more disposals than just India? If you type Exxonobel Pakistan in your search engine of choice, you'll see that there's a company in Pakistan that made... disclosure this morning that they are engaged in advanced discussions for the purchase of 100% of our business in Pakistan. So it's a small business. It's not as exciting as India from a value perspective, but it's another data point that things are happening in the background and we're continuing to execute our strategy. Now I'll move on to the vehicle refinish question. North America is at a trough. It's not clear that Europe is at a trough. Europe is still dropping, but Europe has dropped less than North America. North America dropped because disposable income is down, insurance premiums were up. And it's not because collisions are dropping or people are not driving. It's really because insurance claims are down because people don't have the money to afford the the deductible or the premium increase the next year. So it's more of a market event linked to a disconnect between purchasing power and the pricing of insurance. And we are, you know, we're an active player in North America. You have players that are much bigger than we are, like Excelta and PPG. And I think they've both stated that they expect that market to normalize. And as we see our operations and our trading in the U.S., we were dropping in Q2. We stabilized in Q3. And therefore, we think that trough is real and we think that market will start picking up sometime next year. Europe has been going down. And, you know, once again, it's less drastic than what we saw in the U.S., But the Europe vehicle refinish business is also down. And then there's the bigger question of is vehicle refinish a growth business? And I think the answer to that is vehicle refinish is a low growth business. There's a negative effect, which is that driving aids and the likes will lead to a lower percentage of collisions. And with high insurance premiums, you're more likely to get full write-offs than repairs. So that's a negative impact. The positive impact is that we're focused on Europe and the US. But But the car park worldwide is still going up, including the U.S. So you have more cars on the road, and that is a growth effect. And if you combine the two, vehicle refinish globally, I think, is a low-growth, high-profitability business. Did I answer your questions, James? James, I lost you, or are we good? All right, we're good. Thank you.

Yeah, we're good. Yeah, very helpful. Thank you very much.

Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from Katie Richards at Barclays. Please go ahead.

Hi there. Thank you for taking my questions. I've got two. Just the first on the court case, if you can say any more, please. Can you just tell us about what is included in the 300 million provision you've booked today and if there's anything that remains a contingent liability? And what would be the key accounting triggers for recognising further provisions or insurance receivables going forward? Second question, please, just on your comments on the activist Sevian that you made on your Bloomberg interview this morning. You said that Sevian's stake could get to around 10% by the end of the year. And I think the quote you said was that we might have a significant activist under the Christmas tree. Can you give a few more comments about the conversations you've been having and why you felt the stake might build to 10%? That would be quite an acceleration in the next three months.

All right, Martin, take Australia and I'll take Sylvain. Martin?

Yeah, so on the Yertes case, as we mentioned, I mean, this is a long-running case in Australia. going back to the 2013-2015 period when we applied the coatings. We have mentioned earlier that the main hearings were completed in May, earlier this year, May 2025. But the Federal Court has continued their proceedings for substantive matters, but also for procedural matters. And the assessment we made at the end of the quarter has triggered the provision of 300 million. Basically, it met the accounting criteria, IAS 37. You asked about the 300 million. In fact, if you look at our accounts, it's 275 million plus 25 million interest components. For the rest, we cannot share any details because disclosing them would prejudice the company and the interest of the company in this ongoing litigation. But it is important to mention here that we feel that we are not liable, that our liability is zero. And of course, we are defending this case vigorously in the court.

Thanks, Martin. I'll take the Savion question and then we'll ask you whether you need to follow up. Savion, I don't know that I'll ever live down my activist under the Christmas tree comment on live television. It's the danger of putting me anywhere near live television. But what I meant by that is that. The city and guys have been talking to us for a long time. They're quite thoughtful and deliberate in their approach. They've attended every single roadshow we've done for the last two years. So it really was not a question of whether to us, at least, whether they were going to come in, but more like when. And they started accumulating over the summer. They crossed the 3% threshold at the end of August. They crossed the 5% threshold and made a market disclosure last week. And if you extrapolate on the rate of purchasing and you assume that they're going to continue roughly at that clip, you get to you get to about 10% by, uh, by, uh, late this year, late December, early January. I made it more colorful by, uh, saying, you know, for Christmas, but, uh, um, it, it, I don't speak on behalf of Savion. Uh, I don't think they've been a public about where they intend to go and they certainly, uh, haven't given us any, um, clear commitments, but in our discussions with them, they, uh, did allude to the fact that they intended to deploy their roughly in line with their what their average capital deployment is in the companies that they invest in and if you go on their website and look at what they did it's roughly a billion euros per company and for us that gets you to about 10 percent of capital and therefore our expectation is that they'll continue accumulating roughly until the end of the year And I think then the debate will be at what point they settle and if and when they ask for board representation. And my overall closing comment on this, and I'll let you follow up if you want to, is that. we're supportive. We're happy to have anybody who's supportive of our strategy and who is focused on value creation. We're very much value creation focused, and therefore, I have no discomfort whatsoever in the discussions that we've had or their focus as such. That kind of answers my question, but Casey, do you need a follow-up on either of those points?

Do you feel that they are supportive of your strategy? You mentioned that there were activists in your competitors in 2019 talking about separating the business. Is that something that's been discussed?

No, it's not something that's been discussed. What has been discussed is that we need to refocus our portfolio on on the positions on which we have winning cards and we can create the most value. And in the conversations that we had before they started accumulating, they were very supportive of our transaction in India, for example. So, you know, look, at the end of the day right now, they're buying, so we're not really talking because they have to make sure that they do this at arm's length and not on any information that comes from us. So if anything, we've been talking less since they've been buying than we were talking before. But, you know, from what we understand from them, it's what they're looking for is a variation of what we're doing. But, you know, what's the Olympic motto? Faster, higher, stronger. And I'm comfortable with that. These might be famous last words, but I stand by them, Casey.

Thank you.

Thanks a lot. Our next question comes from Christian fights at Kepler Chevro. Please go ahead.

Yes. Thanks very much. Good morning, Craig, Martin, Kenny and team. And before I forget Martin, all the best for your post Excel career.

Martin's still with us for six months. Don't give him the impression that he's riding through the sunset. He still has a lot of work to do. You seem to be giving me a break.

Go ahead, Christian. I'll give you a break. Indeed. Now, two questions, please. First of all, you talk about a negative mixed effect in Deco Europe and also Latin America. Is that the consumer trading down to private label pains? And is that an ongoing trend as we speak? And then second of all, can you please share your view about current trading conditions in both your segments and possibly give us a view of order visibility? Has anything improved in October versus September, for example? Thanks.

I'll start with the answer and Martin will jump in. When we talk about mix, we're not really talking about customers trading down. There's no visible signs of customers trading down in DECO in any of our significant markets. We're more talking about geographical mix within the region. So if you take DECO Europe... Countries like the UK and the Benelux, where we have higher market share, are more profitable than countries like France or Spain, where we have lower market share. And Therefore, you can be flat in terms of volumes, but with a mixed change, a country mixed change within the region, and that will impact profitability. The business breathes in that sense. Things are not static. But there isn't anything that is a customer trend in terms of people trading down. And that comment applies to Latin America too. The profitability of Brazil, Argentina, and Colombia are three big countries. The profitability is not the same. And therefore, depending on which country is going up, which country is going down, you'll have a mixed effect within that region. That's really what the comment is. You want to take current trading, Martin?

Now, if you look at current trading, it's very Q3 into Q4. We see some very similar trends along all our businesses. It's important, of course, to mention that Q4 is always a smaller quarter for DECO, specifically DECO EMEA. But overall, similar trends in Q4. And we also like to indicate that from a volume perspective, we will be slightly down in Q4, similar to what we've seen in Q3.

Yeah, Q4 burn is what, volume slightly down, like a percent down or something like that. It's price mix slightly up, same order of magnitude. The efficiency measures continue, so the cost base should continue to improve. And then the Forex is, I mean, Forex is, translation is roughly somewhere around 30 million euros a clip per quarter for us at the current exchange rate. So it's It's significant, hence the fact that instead of saying above 1480, we're saying around 1480. We didn't want to adjust the 1480 number for Forex, but there's a 30 million impact in Q4. Christian, do you need to follow up?

I'm fully aware that November and December are obviously seasonally weak, but leaving Deco aside, October... we'll have seen similar trends by September. Is that a correct observation?

Similar trends, as I just mentioned, Christian, indeed.

Okay, great. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Our next question is from Tony Jones at Rothschild & Co. Please go ahead.

Good morning, everybody. Thank you for taking my questions. I have two. A bit of a follow up, really. So on the four year guidance to get to the 1.48 billion EBITDA, that implies Q4 earnings need to be high year to year. after tracking lower for the previous three quarters um you just said that um early view into the quarter is that demand's not really changing that much so what do you see that's going to buck the trend um and then following up on the portfolio and appreciate the comments about asia but what about europe you flanked before that some of your country-based exposure primarily in deco is weaker than you would like with low market positions and margins. What are your plans for that business over the next 12 months or so? Thank you.

Thanks, Tony. I'll take the Europe portfolio question and Martin will talk about the Q4 and the full year guidance. Europe and DECO is a different animal because as much as I state clearly that DECO is a local for local business where if you take Latin America, Argentina, Brazil and Colombia are pretty much operating independently from each other because you got local production and local customers and the product doesn't travel very well. Europe is the exception. Europe is geographically compact enough and the borders are open enough that you can actually have a European supply chain, which means that the paint that we sell in Netherlands is produced. Some of it is produced in Netherlands, but a lot of it is produced in France or Spain or Poland. And therefore, industrially, from a manufacturing and supply chain perspective, we run Europe as one. What you're left with is the strength of the brand and distribution locally. And we have some countries in which we're weaker than others. But the difficulty associated to selling a country in Europe is that. A lot of it is Dulux, you know, and these are open borders. So it's very hard to say, well, I'm not doing well in France, for example, and I want to – or I'm not doing well in – I'll use a country that doesn't make sense, you know, in Liechtenstein. And I've decided that I'm going to sell my Liechtenstein business to somebody because if you're Dulux in Liechtenstein, what are you selling? You know, you're selling – Are you selling a factory? Are you selling a brand? What are you selling exactly? And the answer is it's very difficult to do so. For Europe, for us, it's more a question of extracting the maximum value from our European assets. And what's really interesting is that our European DECO businesses have been improving in terms of profitability, and we still see a lot of operational upside. Our industrial transformation, a lot of it is focused on closing some of our excess capacity in DECO Europe and optimizing the supply chain. Therefore, we believe that Deco Europe should be, over time, one of our most profitable businesses at ExxonMobil. We certainly believe in the upside that comes from that business. We're not looking at pruning in Europe. We're not looking at selling anything in Deco in Europe. We're really more looking at optimizing our positions elsewhere. We weren't unhappy to not go through with our transaction in Africa with Kanzai, for example, because as much as we're not trying to sell anything in Europe, we're not trying to create a distraction to our operational plan by adding complexity. But once again, Europe Deco is not an area of selected exits. It's an area of significant operational improvement for us. Martin, you want to take the 1480 question?

I mean, your question is very specific around Q4. We mentioned earlier in Q4 volumes roughly minus 1% versus last year, slightly down. What we also do see is raw material. Basically, we crossed the line in September. So raw material will be slightly down versus last year. While we are still, of course, being very price disciplined. So that's the second element. The third element is, of course, our savings programs. We do expect a net OPEC savings of around 20 million. Of course, the 20 million is in a smaller quarter. And the last point I want to make, that if you compare to last year, Specifically, the deco business was not a good quarter. So we see improved profitability on the deco side of the house. So if you take these elements into account, you get to how we see the profitability for Q4.

And for the avoidance of doubt, because I think part of your question was... Are we trying to talk up consensus? We're not trying to talk up consensus. You know, what we're saying is that the trends that you see in Q3, you can extrapolate to Q4. And we're saying that even with a 4x impact, we're in the ballpark of where we said we were going to be. But there isn't anything that's accelerating from a market perspective or anything that's picking up in terms of activity. But once again, we're making our own luck by being diligent on our efficiency measures. Do you have a follow-up, or did we answer your questions?

No, that's great. Greg, Martin, thank you. Really appreciate the call there. Thank you. Thanks, Tony. Thanks.

Our next question is from Laurent Trava from BNP. Please go ahead.

Yes, good morning all. My first question, and I'm sorry, but I need to go back to ISTIS. Can you just be a little bit more specific on what has changed in terms of the federal proceedings during Q3 as you, I guess, adjusted the text, the disclosure on ISTIS at the end of Q2? So why not take the provision at the end of Q2? And the second question, Greg, going back to your comments on how, and thank you for all the details on why splitting deco and coding doesn't necessarily make sense until it does. And you mentioned that it could in the context of wider consolidation and adding scaling codings. Just to be clear, is this something that is now part of your, I guess, strategic planning on a two to three year view? Is it something where you think Axel would be an active player or more somebody that would be consolidated? Can you maybe shed a bit more color there? Thank you.

Sure. You want to take this question, Martin, and then I'll do the consolidation thing.

Yeah, Laura, I mean, I mentioned it before. I mean, the proceedings in the federal court are ongoing. And of course, that means that quarter by quarter we make our assessments and that assessment has led to the provision of 300 million dollars. Again, it's a provision meeting the IAS 37 accounting criteria. It remains, for the rest, a continued liability. I also want to say clearly that we have, of course, the insurance of maximum 500 million in place that's covering provided but also unprovided elements. But I cannot be more specific because any further details we give are And any disclosure would basically harm our interests and the company's position in this ongoing litigation. So I really have to leave it like this.

I'll take the Deco versus Coatings question. You phrased it well. I don't disagree with anything you said. The separation doesn't make sense until it does, if I quote your words, and it could make sense in the context of a wider industry move, wider industry consolidation. Is it part of our plan? It's always been part of our plan. I've never made any bones in the almost three years since I've been here that this is an industry that would still benefit from consolidation, and there are combinations that make a lot of sense here. And your question is, would we be active or passive? We're open to anything that creates value for shareholders. And we're always having conversations and always willing to have conversations. At the end of the day, in a lot of our businesses, scale matters. And there are combinations that do make sense. And once again, we're not setting limits on ourselves. It's a conservative industry, so things don't always move very fast, but there would be value to some of the lines shifting. And once again, we're not saying this is anything that is imminent. We're saying that this is something that we believe in and we'd be willing to participate in. Laurent, any follow-up?

No, not at all. Thank you.

Thanks. Our next question is from Chetan Udashi from J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead.

Yeah, hi, Monique. I had a couple of questions. You know, you did probably at least versus my numbers better on cost savings, you know, better on volumes. One place where I was a bit surprised is your adjusted gross margins down year on year. You know, given that maybe the net pricing was still positive in Q3 and you have savings. So can you maybe just help us understand why the gross margins are not actually higher in Q3 on an adjusted basis? The second question, again, I don't want anything specific to the Australian provision, but I'm just curious, could this become a sort of a precedent in terms of Are there operators looking at this project and trying to come after the coating providers where they can to sue for any damages? In other words, can this open a can of worms for the whole industry in general? Thank you.

Chetan, I'll kill off the second one and Martin will take the first one. It's not a precedent for anything. It's a very particular situation which is linked to an unusual element. I'll call it unusual for lack of a better word, but unusual elements of Australian law, which is that Like a big Japanese LNG company can hide behind Australian consumer laws which have been drafted to protect the Australian grandmother. to essentially go after a provider. The reason why this is such an unusual case is that I'm not aware of anywhere else in the world where you could actually do that. There's nothing wrong with the product that was applied. We don't have any other cases of this product being an issue. This is from 12 years ago. It's a really specific issue to Australia and It's irritating because it takes a lot of time, it generates a lot of legal fees, and it forces us to give regular updates on something which is a more significant risk than anything you should see in a paints and coatings company because we're not a projects business. But once again, it's very specific to this situation and is not something that I see happening anywhere else or not something that we, we have anything else of any similar scale magnitude or even nature anywhere else in our portfolio. Hopefully that was clear. Martin, take the other question in the chat. Then if you want to follow up, we'll ask you afterwards.

Yeah, on the sequential gross margin, I would say that sequentially coatings operates, of course, in weaker markets. So in coatings, you see in general a bit more price pressure compared to some of the other businesses. That is one. Secondly, interestingly, and this becomes a little bit technical here, With raw material starting to come down, we've also seen some inventory revaluation, which is, of course, a negative in the quarter, which supports the quarter afterwards. So it's a combination of factors, but you should not read too much into it.

Thank you.

All right.

Thank you. We have no further questions on the call at this time, so I will hand back to Greg for closing remarks.

Thank you very much. Q3, is there another question? All right, one more question. Go ahead. What's the question?

Georgina?

So the last question is from Georgina Fraser from Goldman Sachs. Georgina, last but not least, go ahead.

Thank you. Hey, Greg, thank you. Thanks so much for squeezing me in. It was just one last one. Could you talk to us about China, the recovery that's continuing there? How optimistic are we about that continuing and just any color you can give us there?

China is really interesting. We have... We were active in pretty much all our businesses in China, but we have three large businesses in China. We've got our decorative paints business. We've got our powder coatings business, and we got a marine and protective business. Marine and protective business in China has been going well for the last few years. China... does more than half of the world's shipbuilding. We're one of the market leaders in coatings for the marine world. And therefore, we've been growing in China and we've been quite dynamic. That part's not new. The powder market in China is currently... difficult uh and competitive and and volumes are are are slightly down but actually axo is uh is uh going up in volumes we're growing and we're growing profitably and we're increasing our bottom line too and uh and this is a reflection of the fact that we've got the best products in the market and we've got very good service levels and therefore we're uh We're a desirable partner for people that have some of the more complex applications like the electric vehicle guys in China. And as we know, there's a lot of them. And we have a strong position in that market, and that's been serving us well. And then DecoChina, which was a tough spot for us the last two years, the market itself is still down, but we're back to growing in DecoChina, and therefore our business is improving, and it's improving mostly because we're growing in retail. The project part of the Chinese market, in which we're not very active, is still very much depressed because of of lack of real estate development in China. But the retail part of the market has been active for us, and we've been doing well in it. So are we getting a lot of help from the market and DECO in China? We're not. But do we believe that we are on a growth trajectory that should continue? We do. Anything else you want to ask on that, Georgina?

No, that's great. I'm just wondering, specifically on raw materials trending a bit more positively into the fourth quarter, is that something that you see in every region, or is it more of a global comment and there's differences between the geographies?

Yeah, Georgina, there are absolutely differences between geographies. First of all, it's more pronounced in DECO, specifically on the back of, for instance, TIO2. And it is more pronounced in the Asian regions. But yes, there are differences per geographies and there are differences per the businesses.

Anything else, Regina? Thank you very much. I think there's no further questions. Thank you both. I'll wrap up. Q3, we'd like to get some help from the market. We're not at this point, but we're making our own luck by continuing to deliver on our efficiency measures. And there's more to come. So that's going to be a continuing story well into next year. And I think we've got a good handle on it. We're hitting our targets. We're ahead of plan, whether it's on the Functional SG&A stuff or on the industrial side. So I'd say from that perspective so far so good we expect from a momentum perspective and from a Forex perspective q4 to look like q3 and And we don't see an uptick. But once again, we're continuing to deliver on our measures. We talked about Australia. We told you what we could tell you. This has been going on for 12 years. I've been living with it for three. Martin's been living with it for a lot longer. We're making sure that we're up to date on disclosures and on IAS 37 because it is a very significant claim and we really want to be diligent on this. But there's no change to our underlying view of whether we're liable or not. We clearly believe we're not liable. Save Yon 3% at the end of August, 5% at the end of last week. We expect this to continue. Strike my Christmas tree comment from the record. But once again, from what we understand from them, knowing that we're not talking to them actively as they're accumulating, we're pushing for the same things. And then it's always going to be a question of speed and quantum. And India, transaction closing in December, that seems very solid. And therefore, the proceeds will come in and will help our leverage ratio at the end of the year. And once again, part of the proceeds will be deployed on a share buyback, which will start in January. So that's my summary of the summary. We thank you very much for your time and your questions and hope you have a good day. Thank you. Thank you.

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you all very much for joining and you may now disconnect.