Alzchem Group Ag

Dear ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the conference call of Altscam Group AG. At our customer's request, this conference will be recorded. As a reminder, all participants will be in a listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. If any participant has difficulties hearing the conference, please press star key, followed by zero on your telephone for operator assistance. May I now hand you over to Andreas Niedermeyer, CEO, who will lead you through this conference. Please go ahead, sir.

Yeah, hello. Good morning, everybody. Thank you for joining us today and welcome to our third analyst call for this year. As always, we start with an executive summary and then move on to the figures after some strategic topics. So at the end of the presentation, we will be available for sure for additional questions. So let's skip the disclaimer and go directly to the page four. So now you should see the page four. Let's start here with a brief overview of the overall situation. So after a good second quarter, which compared favorably to the previous year, the third quarter could not meet the previous year's results. With the continuation of the COVID-19 pandemic, it is becoming apparent that the weakness of the metrology and automotive market is persisting for Altschulm and is affecting more and more industries. Despite our broad product-based volume effects from, for example, the automotive, the aircraft construction, lightweight construction, or steel production and nutrition sectors, could not or no longer be fully compensated. So this also led to the fact that we had to issue an ad hoc release on October 14th with adjustments to sales and earnings. So far, we have been largely spared from direct COVID-19 cases of illness, even though the topic is a constant challenge and will regain importance. There is a rising number of reported cases in the districts in which we operate our factories. And I think we are on the highest line of incidents here in our district, what is really a bad situation. But our hygiene concepts have been effective so far and prevented further multiplication or domino effects of COVID-19 infections. at the workplaces itself. Usually, they came always from the private situation to the company. So, in the reporting period, all production facilities were stable and running without any COVID-19-related interruptions. Despite the generally weaker sales, selected business such as Netralt and BioSelect are performing very, very well. This takes us up straight to the next page, and there I will hand over to my colleague, Dr. Georg Michael Barmer.

Thank you, Andreas. Let me continue. As frequently reported in recent quarters, the neutral business has developed very favorably. In summer of last year, we successfully commissioned the first expansion phase, which we were able to fully utilize very quickly. Ongoing inquiries from the pharmaceutical and biocide industries have prompted us to start the next expansion step. The investment sum is expected to be around 12 million euros, which will result in a capacity increase of about 50%. The annual sales potential depends on the product mix and is comparable in size to the investment amount. but in any case, more than 10 million euros. Now, what was the detailed motivation for our investment at least this time? Continue on the next page. We have vast experience in the gas phase process, and via ongoing improvements, we make certain that we are a benchmark for the market. Our process is continuous, solvent-free, and therefore sustainable. we are seen by our customers as a very reliable source of raw materials made in Germany. But production aspects are only the basis. On the market side, there are developments that support our decision. Many of our customers search for a robust supply chain, and Altschem, as the sole non-Chinese supplier of nitriles, is a centerpiece of this strategy. This is especially the case for sartans, a kind of hard medication, and BIT, a biocide. In addition, more and more environmentally friendly pigments based on our materials are being developed and used. And for this, we are able to deliver. Despite, or maybe because of COVID-19, we have already been able to sell a substantial part of the additional capacities to our customers. This is what finally convinced us to initiate and implement this expansion investment, even in these unusual times. In September of this year, the first installations were started, and we have reached the final phase of the project financing with our banks for 10 million euros. So far to the neutral investment. Now let's discuss the specific figures on the next page back to Andreas.

Yeah, that's my part again. So we are on the page seven now and in the third quarter of 2020 sales decreased by 18.20% year on year to 81.4 million. Unfortunately, we have seen declining sales in all three segments this quarter. with the largest percentage decline in the basic and intermediate segments. So this is the main reason why the EBITDA margin increased by 1.1 percentage points year on year in the quarter and by 0.4 percentage points in the nine month period. So what was the rationale behind it? We lost this proportionality, large amounts of lower margin business slash commodities and gained higher margin business slash specialties. In this quarter, we mainly lost in structural terms by 17.7% in volume and 0.7% over the currency. Along with sales also, EBITDA fell short by approximately 1.6 million to approximately 12 million compared to the same quarter of the previous year. As a consequence, Of lower sales in the third quarter, also sales in the first nine months are down by 3.1% on the previous year, followed by an EBTA of 41.1 million. This leads to a slightly higher EBTA margin for the full year as the sales program for specialties was more stable overall. Earnings per share fell from 166 to 146 per share. The decline is due to significantly higher depreciation following the high level of CapEx in the past, especially in the last two years for the CreaMedia project. All in all, despite the COVID-19 crisis situation, which has now lasted longer than initially anticipated, we are doing quite well. And despite the decline in sales, our EBITDA is roughly at the previous year's level. So much for the big picture. And the overview, let us now analyze some more details on the different segments. And here we go straight to the page 10, I think. This is the next page. So only to remember, the basic and intermediate segment comprises the production of basic and intermediate products. They are either required for the manufacture of specialty chemicals or market as standalone products. The products are used in a variety of applications, for example, in agriculture, steel, and automotive industry. So in the basic and intermediate segment, after a robust first half year, the declines of quarter three 2020 could not longer be fully offset. The volume declines of over 30% in the metallurgical and automotive sectors, and could not longer be offset by the other products and markets either here. So the market development, including the corresponding investment in the neutral product range and expansion of Perco applications and countries, as well as stable supply of basic material pharmaceutical and products proved to be the main corner stores in Q3 2020 as well. So, but the volume could not longer compensate for the decline in the metallurgical and automotive business here. The quarterly revenues fell by 22.5% to 32.3 million with a respectable EBITDA of 2 million. Nevertheless, our year to date revenue is only 7.3% below the previous year. And on the earning side, we were able to turn that cumulative result On the one hand, we were able to change the sales program towards higher value products. The key word here is the investment in the trials and higher sales for this product group. And on the other hand, the favorable raw materials market also supported our margins here. So that's the information about basic and intermediate segments. Let us now move on to the specialties segment, which is on the page 12. You should now see this slide is a slight delay, I think. So, only to remember here, again, the specialty chemical segment produces and sells high-quality specialty chemicals, such as CreAmino, CreaPure, BioSelect, Diehard, and Dormix, only to name a few here. For the first nine months of the year, the specialty chemical segment can report both extraordinary success and significant volume declines as well. So BioSelect, being a part of the COVID-19 test kit, has experienced a very strong growth push. Products from our multipurpose plants were also placed in the specialty and fine chemicals market in good volumes, even if this were somewhat weaker in the Q3. The volume sales trend for our product preamino also continued to rise for the nine months period. Also, Q3 volumes did not meet our expectations here. Though the COVID-19 pandemic hit us very hard, especially in the third quarter. This applies also to the diehard and nitro-guanidine product areas as this supply important specialties in renewable energy applications, lightweight constructions, the automotive sector, and the aircraft construction. But cumulative sales of the specialties were roughly on a par with the previous year, even though Q3 was relatively weak here. Despite the ongoing investment in marketing activities in connection with our nuclear pure derivates like Lieberdürr, segment EBITDA increased slightly in quarter three, as well as for the nine-month period based on a strict cost management and successful production process improvements. So that's the information about specialty chemicals, quick and short. Let us now move on to the third segment. This is on the page 14. Here we are talking about the others in holding. I think now you should see this page as well. To remember here again, the answers and holding segment comprises all the other activities not allocated to the other segments. These services are mainly related to the chemical parts, Trostberg and Hart, which Altschulm operates also for third parties. And in addition, administrative services are allocated to this segment. So in the first nine months of 2020, the answer and holding segment was not quite able to match the sales of the previous year. in line with reduced production volumes, variable site services like compressed air, instrument air, operating gas, natural gas, and technical services, and so on, declined slightly here. So the decline in sales in the quarter amounts to about 10% compared to about 5% for the nine-month period. So that we see this segment more or less stable turnover-wise. The segment earnings reflect higher prices following an increase of costs beyond our control, and the ongoing renovation of maintenance measures on the plant's own infrastructure also had an impact on EBITDA. Last year's EBITDA was supported by lower regular maintenance measures, among other things, and this year we had higher costs here to renovate our infrastructure. Okay, then let us now take a look at the balance sheet. This is the page 15. The balance sheet in total remained more or less stable on a level of 342 million. Let's elaborate on the major changes within the assets. In line with lower capex, tangible assets decreased by 3.4 million to 180.2 million. 182.9 million here and compared to December 2019 inventory stayed more or less on the same level with a slightly decreasing trend. Our efforts to keep the stock low have therefore been successful, which is a very good information as we think. As already indicated in summer, receivables have returned to the lower level. of the previous year, we can see this effect even more clearly in our cash flow later on. So what else is there to discuss in the liabilities side? Equity increased by 2.7 to 64 million. This led to an equity ratio of 18.7% compared to 17.9 in the previous year. And the long-term evaluation interest rates increased from 0.9 to 1.7 in the first quarter. and are now back on the level, on a very low level of 0.7%. And this had the effect that the pension provision was again significantly higher, namely at the level of 141.5 million here. So in addition, the scheduled repayment of loan liabilities led to a reduction in non-current liabilities of approximately 8.5 million to 77.6 million here. We will hear some more detail later on in the cash flow analysis. And with a good cash flow in general, it was also possible to reduce current liabilities, which are now again below the previous year on the level of 59.3 million here. So I think that's enough for the balance sheet analysis or for the first analysis. Let us now have some words about the cash flow. We will see this information on the next page, which is the page 16. So the cash flow development continues to be very positive. The cash inflow from operating activities increased. from 25.6 to 33.8 million year on year. This reflects the decrease in networking capital and the strong operating business itself. So at 16 million, the cash flow from investing activities was approximately half of the previous year. And the main reason are of course the absence of major projects for the time being and somewhat lower CapEx activities due to the COVID-19 pandemic. So for the new project within the neutrales, we will see approximately half of the capex this year in the balance sheet by the end of the year and the other half approximately next year. So as a result, we have a clearly positive free cash flow compared to the previous year here. And Altcam's financing activities in the nine months of 2019 were still largely characterized by the payment of the remaining loan amounts to finance the nuclear amino plant in the amount of 30 million. And in contrast, financing activities in 2020 focused on the scheduled repayment of loans and the repayment of leasing liabilities overall. This led to a cash flow from financing activities of minus 14.1 million, including the dividend payment. So despite the cash outflows from CapEx and financing activities, cash and cash equivalents returned from minus three to 3.6 million due to the strong cash inflow from operating activities here. So after this analysis of the cash flow, a few words to our targets. This is page 17. Before the coronavirus determined everything our goals were and are, The following continued development of the market for CRIAMINO is and will remain our top priority here. So far, we are on schedule with this goal, but we do notice some delays, especially in testing the product within our customers due to COVID-19. The meat pipeline is more or less full. Slaughterhouses had to close down temporarily in some cases, which is why our customers are more concentrating on their basic processes rather than on optimizations with CRIAMINO. Nevertheless, we are confident that the growth process around CRIAMINO will accelerate again latest in the next year when we have passed the COVID-19 issue, hopefully. The further development of the trial strategy with the next capacity expansion and cathetics is also an important topic for this year. Installation has already started in September. Financing is close to signature and commissioning is planned for the end of quarter two in the year 2021. So here we are on track and we have already heard all the details from George a few minutes ago. So we also intend to intensify the topic of sustainability. The two most important topics are zero accidents and the goal of CO2 neutrality. In terms of accidents, we started lower than the last years, and thanks to the excellent safety work of our employees. In addition, we have established a sustainability team in our organization, which was charged with developing defined sustainability goals. So there we will hear more results in the next calls, I think. So, and as already described, we are working hard to grow our LIWADUR portfolio and implement our strategy here. As we are behind our plans here, we are diverting our sales efforts in the direction of online. You can probably already see this on all channels like Instagram, Facebook, or LinkedIn, hopefully, and this, hopefully brings more success in the sales pipeline. Corona unfortunately controls a big chunk of the complete daily routine, and we are in the process of meeting all hygiene regulations. So far, our plants are up and running, and we have made a respectable nine months, even at a slightly lower sales level than originally expected. Unfortunately, we are again in a lockdown, which is why we had to issue a talk announcement for the forecast a few weeks ago. So the result or the forecast we see on the next page, which is page 18. Due to the Q3 experience, we had to adjust sales from slightly to sharply rising back to stable to slightly lower on the earnings side. We are moving from stable to sharply rising to now stable to moderately lower. Due to the confusion caused by the COVID-19 in the meat markets, the amino growth is delayed and the steel crisis will be prolonged as we see in our PML. So the BioSelect and the trials business can make up for a lot. And that's the reason why we can report here more or less So the order book for Q4 underpins and supports this forecast very well, allowing us to focus on our operating business and therefore we feel really confident that we will make this year on this level as we have already reported now. At this point, we would like to thank you for your appreciated attention, and we are now at your disposal for possible questions, if there are any. Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin our question and answer session. If you have a question for our speakers, please dial 01 on your telephone keypad now to enter the queue. Once the name has been announced, you can ask the question. If you find your questions answered before it's your turn to speak, you can dial 02 to cancel your question. If you're using speaker equipment today, please lift the handset before making your selection. One moment, please, for the first question. And the first question we received is from Marcus Meyer of Barahavia. Your line is now open, sir. Please go ahead.

Yeah, good morning, gentlemen. Several questions from my side. I think it makes sense to ask them one by one. In the specialty chemicals business, this decline versus the third quarter, was there any pre-buying in the second quarter, which you would now see as pre-buying and this then lower result in the second quarter? Or how would you explain this decline? lower demand in particular in the automotive related businesses where other chemical players saw the weakness already in the second quarter? That would be my first question.

Thank you for the question. When we look back and compare Q2 and Q3, there was a sudden decline from June to July. We didn't see too much reductions in the second quarter and the Now, with hindsight, it looks like our customers accumulated some inventories, used up those inventories, and then tried to adjust to the regular market demand, which was much lower than previously anticipated.

But we have seen a quite good September and a really good October again, so therefore We feel really confident that we will make the outlook as already forecasted here.

Okay, understood. That is very good, because that was one of my next questions, if the automotive recovery is also accelerating in the fourth quarter, or is it mainly automotive or also metallurgy, where you see a recovery starting?

Yeah, we see the recovery in both of those markets. However, and that was the main reason for our warning, it started slower than we had originally anticipated, but now we see it month by month increasing.

But especially in the steel branch, it started really on a lower level as formerly expected from our point.

Okay. And then coming to BioSelect, Was BioSelect flat a quarter of a quarter, or was it even up? And given this current situation, I guess there should be a huge demand at least in the fourth quarter, if not early in the third quarter. Maybe some words on BioSelect would be helpful.

Yeah, that's correct. There's a huge demand for BioSelect. And the demand ramped up so quickly that we could not meet all the requirements from the customers. And as we had indicated in Q2, we made investment into our equipment in order to accommodate the request. But even then, we were not fully able to meet the demands. And as we now gain experience in production, we are able to increase the output of the unit. And for all the additional volumes which we can produce, we have customers who still look for additional volumes being from a reliable source on which they can depend.

And we have already decided to invest more into this product group to follow the market demand here.

Okay. My next question, this additional capacity you mentioned, Is this then in this multi-purpose plant or is it specific in BioSelect?

We actually had thought about making it also in the multi-purpose plants, but the quality is very, very critical. And this is also a very critical decision point for our customers, so we decided not to go into the multi-purpose plant, but to expand the BioSelect unit. which, as I mentioned, is now increasing in output. And since our expectation is that COVID-19 will not be completed either this year or in the first quarter of next year, our expectation is it will be with us at least for the full next year. We decided that we also, again, will slightly increase the capacity of the BioSelect unit.

But coming to Ciamino, this weakness you've described due to this full meat value chain, is this weaker demand basically coming from this kind of effect, or do you also see a change in competition now with Avonic being more active in the market?

It's a mixed bag of different things. I mean, as already indicated in the call, we have a few effects. One is that birds are grown slower, and therefore, the growers go to a more basic diet, which doesn't require . Due to COVID-19, there was less testing because our customers didn't know how to adjust to that. That has changed now slightly. We see now an uptick in the number of requests because our customers have now come to grips with the fact that it will remain and they continue on with their regular business. On the competitive side, we certainly see an impact of Evonik returning. However, so far, we have been able to defend most of our accounts.

And the market mechanism is still in a good shape. So, therefore, the market we can tackle or we can open is more than 100,000 tons. And you see, we have approximately 20 to 25,000 tons capacity there. And Evonik has a much lower capacity than we have. So therefore we are not able to fully supply the market today. But to create the market, to open the market, it's much more difficult within the COVID-19 situation now. So, but as George already said, We see more testing within our customers, and therefore we think that we will grow next year from a better point of view.

Yeah, Aaron's question, you commented that you were able to defend most of the account. I guess most of your accounts are happy if they have two supply sources. Therefore, most likely not either or. Is this a fair assumption?

Yeah, I think that's a very fair assumption. Every customer prefers to have various sources of supply. And in particular, in the fourth quarter, we have seen that some customers are making qualification trials with Evonik material, which is not Evonik material, but which they source in from external. And the real decisions, what the share of supply will be is in the first quarter of next year.

Okay. Then I have two final questions. One is on the shortcomings that decline of demand in the renewable business. I'm astonished on this kind of thing. sentence or saying, because this is not visible, other companies active in this field, like Evonico, where's this coming from?

Yeah, that's correct. But we need to look at the products which we sell into the renewables energy segment. It's on one side, it is silicon nitride, and that business has moved completely to China. All our customers are in China. And there is quite some domestic production of silicon nitride also in China. And as a consequence, we lose in sales. We have counteracted that by developing it for more technical applications, which is no longer renewable energies, but which helps us to grow silicon nitride. Second thing is diehard, which goes, for example, into automotive applications, but also aircraft applications. And in particular, from the aircraft sector, there is close to zero demand.

Okay, understood. My last question was on the slow aromatherapy effect and your basics and immediate solution. How long to expect this effect to stay? Is this something which is more sustainable or is this something you might have to pass on to your customers relatively quickly?

So what we see on the market is that the cold prices are more or less flat. So we have seen some smaller increases in the last weeks. But from our calculation, we see flat markets for the next year here as well. And from the electricity point of view, we tried to purchase four watts or contracts in advance. And therefore, we saved more or less a real good level of electricity prices for next and for the year behind the next year as well. So therefore, we expect slightly higher raw material prices for the next years. but not really completely changed game. Okay, perfect. Thank you so much.

Okay.

The next question we received is from Lisa Sharma. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Actually, it's Andreas Heine from Stiefel. Good morning. If it's confused, you might know us under mine first, but since this week we have the brand Stiefel. I have one question again on Creamino. As far as I know, it is a patent product, so Evonik is not allowed to produce without your permission. Can you say how that works with this license you have given to them financially? That's the first question. And a second one is on Alsuk with the bioscience for animal production. Do you see any, let's say, higher interest in that product during or due to this COVID crisis and higher intensity of hygiene in the meat production and also in the context of the Asian swine flu. And the one question I have on the last one was on these silicon nitrate. I think these which went to the solar industry was even more than half of this product. this business, the silicon nitrate, now in a very tough and difficult situation, so in other words loss making, until you find enough clients for the industrial application in the ceramic areas?

Let's go at it one topic at a time. The arrangement which we have with Evonik is very simple. need to pay us a license fee for every kilogram they sell. And the license is not a manufacturing license, but it is a license for material which is sold as a feed additive. Is that a satisfactory answer?

Well, it means that you benefit from their growth as well, not to the full extent if you would sell it, but... you have an advantage if the market is growing by the company.

Yes, it's correct, and that's part also of our calculation that with Evonik entering the picture, the overall market size will increase because not only we will develop applications, they will as well. Perfect. Then the second question on hygiene. To be honest, I didn't fully understand the full content. Could you rephrase?

The is used as a biocide in the prevention of disease in animal production. And I was thinking whether, let's say, the higher awareness on everything which has to do with disinfection hygiene in general, and more specifically on the African swine flu and these kind of pandemics, whether you see higher interest from meat producers in these kind of products. So in Alcibo or Hoist, that's not definitely.

Yep. There are two opposing trends which you mentioned. One is higher hygiene on one side. The other one is in particular the African swine fever. And thirdly, also less consumption of meat in total as a consequence. So what we see in the market is that the growing periods for swine are extended and that, and the is applied mainly in changeover when the stores are empty and those, periods are delayed. So that's a little bit on the downside. On the other side, it's correct. Customers put more attention to that and have a higher demand for their product.

So we have not seen a big chunk of growth this year, but we are prepared to support the market and we see the issue. and are prepared really to support the market if the demand will grow in next year, what could probably be the case.

Yeah. On silicon nitride, it is correct that the solar application was for some time much bigger than the technical applications. But we have seen the decline in the SQ material for now several quarters. That's nothing which surprised us immediately. And we are taking countermeasures to preserve also our results. We have two plants for making silicon nitride. We have developed both. into a state so that we can make either material in either of the plants and reduce the operating expenses for both plants to keep it on a profitable level. And we have also looked at the strategy going forward and seen that there are a few applications in the technical side in which we can grow. So we also expect that the utilization of those plants will go up again.

So this is one of the strengths of the Altschem group. So if one production goes down, we have other productions, they raise. And therefore, we changed the situation here. We took the personnel, for example, to the BioSelect production as well and to the multipurpose plants. And therefore, we were able to reduce the costs very quick. and we do not see too much negative results here for this case. Thanks.

Are your questions answered? Yes, thanks. Okay. Then as a reminder for all other participants, if you would like to ask a question, please press 01 on your telephone keypad. And we received a further question. It's from . Your line is now open, sir. Please go ahead.

Yes. Hello and good morning. Question to and similar stuff. I'm a little bit wondering about that you are not benefitting of, yeah, corona-related you mind from people to buy stuff to be healthy and to improve their healthy situation. And what are you doing to participate? What is your marketing strategy? You mentioned the social media. I believe it's for people 50 plus If I'm looking at television in the prime time, around 19 or 20 o'clock, you can see a lot of, yeah, more or less 100% is for older people, healthy stuff and health. Leverdure is another percentage here. Why do... take no more money in your hand to speed up here, to build up a brand which is recognizable here by these people. What is your strategy here? Are you planning maybe to give these outsized to more sophisticated and specialized companies and only to get a lesson here. Thank you.

Let me address the first question. Why is levadur not benefiting from the current COVID development? The active ingredient or the active compound in levadur is creatine. And we sell it both in as well as in other markets with the benefit or claim for both that it only works if people exercise in parallel. With the current shutdowns in COVID, be it in gyms, be it people are confined to their homes, It would actually counterproductive if people took levadur because they could not recognize the benefits. And if people do not recognize the benefits, they will not continue to buy. So it's a feeling if people were to buy more levadur and could not move, they actually would not see any benefits. And that's also the reason why the whole is not increasing as a consequence of COVID-19. From the sales and marketing side, yes, correct. When you watch TV, in particular, prior to target show, you see products which go into the same application. But it is also correct, as you indicated, that we have decided deliberately not to go and spend the amounts which are required for TV advertising, in particular at that time. We have initially started to market it through pharmacies, but we had to realize that that business is slower than we anticipated. As a consequence, we reacted and we are now focusing our efforts on online sales be it online pharmacies, but not only online pharmacies, but online sales in general. We are diverting our efforts, we are diverting our expenses, therefore, and we are implementing the strategy one part at a time.

Yeah, and from the financial point of view, we try to be really careful here and only to invest as much as we can. So for sure, if we would have invested 5 to 10 million, then our EBITDA would have been at the level of 40 million euro, and that's the visual circle. We try to fulfill on the one hand to have good financials and to report good financials and to invest in parallel in a very new market for us in the B2C market. So we always recorded that we want to do this on a slow speed and then on a low speed. And on this level, we can and we try to afford.

Okay.

Yes. On the first point, I'm not really agreeing. I see people around me. 50 plus is not really the guys who run into the gym. But if they had done, they are now at home and they are buying a home trainer and doing this at home. So just in these times where other things are not possible, you look on your body and you make home training or something else. So And people are looking at television much more than you could see on all the figures. And the prices for marketing are coming down heavily, as you can see as a result of Z1 and RTL. So it has been, in my opinion, a really good chance to to build up here a brand. And all the other stuff is not really visible. And if I'm looking what margins are possible here, if you had really a good plan to build up a brand and afterwards to get the benefits from with this high margin, me as an investor, I would agree to do so, yeah. and take 10 million from your EBITDA in your hand and invest it in these sites.

Okay, thank you for this information. So this could be that we will rethink the position again for sure. But what we can tell you is that we tried to do TV, television advertising in the US, and it was really difficult because of the presidential election to get the TV spots done there. But the result was that we hadn't been more successful than in Germany. So therefore, we are a little cautious about this topic.

Maybe you'll also have to rethink about your sales channels, so it's only to be distributed by the pharmaceuticals.

Yeah, you're completely right. We did already this. So from this point of view, we decided not only to sell through the pharmacies. Yeah, we are available online. And I think if you Google Leverdure, you will find it in several stores now. And it's broadly available online. What it wasn't half a year ago, I think.

Okay. Yeah. If I'm online, then other question to BioSelect. Is BioSelect in every Corona test or only in the old one and not in the new one, the fast ones and the other things.

Yeah, I can answer that question. However, I would like to not to call it the old ones and the new ones. It's rather what tests are used at which level. I mean, there are in total three different tests. The first one and the still most frequently used one is the PCR test. That's the test where you take samples from your throat and where that material is dissolved. And in each and every of those tests, we are present. And those tests will continue to stay because they are considered as the gold standard in the industry. And also the feedback from the customers is that those will remain at the current level and actually may even increase not only as a consequence of COVID, but also from other applications for other diseases which they use also PCR tests. The second test which is used is the antibody test where also the sample which you take from the human is dissolved and also there the BioSelect is used. In the third test which is now the newest one where you can get results within 15 to 30 minutes, we are not present in those tests because they are the virus remains intact and is analyzed as the virus as such. So we are in two out of the three tests, and the feedback from the customers is that those will stay at the current level for quite some time.

Okay. Thank you. Yeah.

Again, as a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press 01 on your telephone keypad. And we have a follow-up of Andreas Heine of Stiefel. Your line is now open again. Please go ahead.

Yeah, I'd like to ask on Creamino. It is a very prominent product, but how international is your product? sales split right now. You mentioned quite a bit what I thought is more a problem in Germany with the slaughterhouses being seen quite a lot of corona infections being closed, whereas in other places the change in demand has not been that much. Looking on what other companies in animal nutrition like DSM and Evonik were talking about is just they have seen let's say A very strong demand in the first half, which faded a little bit in the third quarter. So kind of normalization to that from over the nine-month period, the growth was still healthy in the range of 5%, 6% for the total animal feed business. How does that compare to what you see? So is that because your business is less international that you see more of that, or why is that?

Quite the opposite. I think we have talked about that quite a few times. We are as international as we can be. We have built up an organization which covers every continent in Europe and the U.S. with our own people and in the other regions with agents which are quite established in those markets. the COVID-related consequences you see in every market. When you look in particular at the U.S., where there have been very prominent cases of the shutdown of slaughterhouses, not only because of COVID, because also as a consequence of the fact that people there stay very close together and the working conditions had been an issue already before and were just worsened by the COVID-19 incidents. So we see it in every market. We see it differently in markets. So in Southeast Asia, we see quite some growth. In Brazil, it remains fairly stable. The biggest markets, but also the markets with the biggest issues are in Europe and in the U.S. And it compared to in particular Evonik and DSM, we have one product which is used in the premium feed of the feeders, which are currently not the diets, which are favored because the premium leads to quick growth of birds. That's currently not mainly the target. It's more to feed the basic diets to the birds, which takes a little longer, but which is more in line with market demand. So yes, we are. not comparable to Evonik here because with Cliamino we serve the segment which is prominent if the demand is up, and that's currently not the case.

Thanks. As there are no further questions, I'll hand back to Mr. Niedermeyer for closing remarks.

Yes, thank you very much for your questions. It was a very interesting discussion, I think. We can now offer you the opportunity to visit us virtually at the Deutsche Eigenkapitalforum next week, at the Bierenberg European Conference in London on November 30th, and at the Münchner Kapitalmarkt Conference on December 8th and 9th. There are still some slots open, so if you are interested in... you can book a slot. So or to return not later than the next annual report, which is on March 19th in 2021. So up to this time, stay well and healthy and goodbye from our side here.

Gentlemen, thank you for your attendance. This call has been concluded. You may disconnect.