Carasent Asa

customers within Adopus and the largest one, Fetix, is now really, really happy with the product and they're giving out testimonials saying how good the product is. You can see them on the LinkedIn and also other social media. And I think Adopus Web is a great product. We have to learn how to sell it, we have to learn how to increment in a good way to make it easy for customers. But once we do, we will be able to really sell. But what this organization do is set us in a cost structure that give us time to succeed with Adopus Web. And that's the main reason. And what that means is that the coming 12 months will not try to do any new sales of Adopus Web. We just try to move all customers from old Adopus to new Adopus Web. Then when we have happy customers in that solution, we can start selling to new customers. And then we have all these present customers talking about how they can make a difference. And we're working well about a new product. It's very difficult to do both at the same time. So we have to accept that back, lower the pace a bit in that organization, lower costs so we can take time to move customers over to the new product and then sell to new customers. And I think it would be a really beneficial structure to be in the same structure as Adurys. And that means then that the head of Adopus have had to leave the company and also another employee in that part of the organization. Looking at Metodica and that to the guys, what I see as our enterprise solution. So it's for really big caregivers that use the same system across multiple clinics and hospitals. And those type of caregivers, they usually want some adoption. So if you're looking at WebDoc, which is for single clinics or groups of clinics, we don't do any adoptions at all. But in Metodica, a large caregiver like Volvo, which is for all Swedish speakers, it's Tapio Norway. They're implementing in all of their units. We're replacing roughly five different digital systems. Then you want as a customer to be able to have some adoptions for your business. And that's what we're doing at the moment for Volvo. I think we had a bit of mission creeps, so they've been wanting a bit more function than we had planned for originally, such as patient portal, which we plan for stability in the future. But this increased the amount of work now. And it has taken more work than we planned to get everything ready for Volvo. It also has meant that we have not had time to work with present customers that we used to. So we have a big backlog on change requests from present customers. And that's what we usually get quite a lot of revenue from. So in total, we're forming them behind plan the first half of the year. But looking from another perspective, our consultancy revenue in the third case, four million behind what was two years ago, even though we have more employees. Yes, because everyone is putting all the time into into all of us. And on the other hand, most part of all that we go live by the end of this last quarter this year and the beginning of next year. And then we start getting our revenues from the customers and that from all that and that will be 79 million of new revenue. Yes, for the system and for different add ons, but it's no consultancy work in that numbers. And then we should also have the other four million that we're now not getting for consultancy work for other customers. So it's a quite big swing of somewhere around 11 to 13 million SEK that we should see do next year from that product alone. And this is a part of the cost when we move from selling licenses, do consultancy work to actually selling subscriptions instead. It turns us shorter, but we win long term on it. And as most of you know, the majority of our products have always been subscription based. But me, too, gas not define our major reasons, a investments. We have, so to speak, playing around with technology for points of time. We've been looking at what other players do. And we became very convinced of the potential for AI to lessen the administrative burden of our customers, which is the big burden, but they really don't like to spend the time on and they spend a lot of time on administration. A is really good at helping with that. We also really strongly to build it into the systems is is a great way of doing it because then you can access all the information around the patient. When you do it, not only listening to the conversations in the patient and the doctor, we can also use all the other information that are in the medical records and in the calendar and so on. So we can really do a lot to burden our customers. I also think it's a technology that we shouldn't say no to. We should should invest in us in that. I think that's where a lot potentially a lot of the future lies. So we decided in the beginning of the year to invest more into AI and to invest in partly new competence into the organization. I'm not very stressed about it. I think it's great potential going forward and we have no need to be first. We have the HR position. That's a difficult one. You don't leave that is less customer. You can stay there. So as long as we can, we can be competitive. It's easy for customers to move from another competing solution to our solution. That being said, I think that we also selling competitors solutions for this type of support and we continue to sell also our competitors or partners. Then to put it that way solutions and I think for some customers, one solution, right. And for other customers, another solution will be derived. But I think for very many of our customers, our solution will be the most appropriate. It will be completely built in. No need to do work in double systems and the AI will have access to much more information than in an external system. Today we have the ambient listening. So listening on the discussion between the patient and doctor. Next, we will start filling out different types of forms, referrals, signals and so on to really unburden our customers. But we still have quite a lot of work. Just for example, this week we're releasing new functionality, which will cut the time it takes to propose a record by roughly a third, I think. So quite a big improvement for customers that are already live coming this week. But these three, these three are the areas which are the main reasons for revised targets. I think that if you look at Volvo, it's really something positive for us going forward. It's of course negative that we're spending a bit more cost on it than we planned. And also that it stops us from generating other types of revenue this year, but it will pass. Adopus, a big part of it is the restructuring cost for moving into a more leading organization, which will help us come forward. And they, I think, will be really good going forward. And I think it was worth investing a bit more this year than we planned originally. So those are the main reasons for revised targets, which now look like this. So you see the revenue has been slightly lowered. And say, and the DA and the DA minus cutbacks is a bit higher lower by roughly 10 million kronor. Looking into our new medium term targets, we have great products. I'm really proud of the products we have. I think it's even stronger that we invest quite a lot in our products and invest in the products increase the distance between us and competitors. So we set it to invest more than most of our competitors. And that means that it would really help driving growth going forward. And it will really allow us to grow with an average of 15 percent the coming three years. And together with good cost discipline, and this will allow us to continue to rapidly improve profitability, reaching an average of 45 percent with the cutbacks of less than 10 percent. So these are our new medium targets, which we believe strongly in. And I think also it's wise to guide on this horizontal when we are in this type of rapid transition from where we used to be. With those words, I would hand over to Martin.

Thank you. And starting off by looking at the financial highlights as discussed, we are we are a bit behind the plan in Q2. But in general, I would say that the underlying financials continue to develop in in the right direction. Our ARR grew by 27 percent to three hundred and seventeen million, including the backlog of assigned not implemented contracts. The reported recurring revenues grew 13 percent organically in the quarter and a net retention of hundred and nine. And as we have talked a lot about during the last year, this the pace in going into Q2 was not that strong given this turn. We had we have seen in WebDoc for the customers going bankrupt. So most of that, as we spoke about last quarter, took took effect at the end of Q1. So this affected the pace going into Q2. The positive is that the pace going out of Q2 is stronger, which I will get get back to. On the profitability side, our EBITDA margin was 15 percent and EBITDA minus CapEx three percent. So improvements compared to last year, but but a bit behind our targets. This slide shows a key metric for us. That is how we are able to convert our revenues into profits. And here we exclude the acquisition we did last year. They tell and they say that the revenue growth was around eight million and then COGS naturally increased around a million. You see that the operating expense decreased by four million compared to last year. But part of this is that last year was high driven by one of costs of two point five. And then we see that the big increase here on the cost side is the personnel expense. It should be looked in connection with the CapEx decrease. So because that's like the total cash cost for our employee base, those two combined and that increased like around six million. The reason for this is mainly the biggest part of that increase is this restructuring cost that we had in Norway and also the option program that we executed in Q2. And in total these cost around close to four million. So adjusted for this, the increase is not that big on the personal expense side. But looking at like the total effects, we converted fifty six percent of the revenues into IBTAC. And if we had adjusted for like the one of last year and the special costs we had in the quarter, then we would have been close to our target, but still a bit behind. We are internal targets on this is converting around 80 percent. We have taken more steps on the cost side in this quarter, removed a few more roles in addition to the other PUS employees. That we didn't see the need for and this will help us in H2. And we need to be around our target there of 80 percent conversion to reach the 25 goals, the new goals. Looking at the ARR, we grew from 250 million to 317 million. On the organic side, we grew by 36 million in upsell or 16 percent. Churn was nine million and new customer growth was 12 million. The reason the two main factors driving the growth was that we onboarded several new large customers and clinics in Norway. For the other curious in addition to to a strong upsell for that product as well in the quarter. So we added around seven million in ARR in towards the end of this quarter for good is alone, which is really strong for that product. Partly this very some contract that we have talked about. The second effect is that we adjusted the prices for several smaller WebDoc customers that were paying enough compared to their production. So that added a couple of million in ARR as well. On the churn side, it's a bit higher than than normal. For reasons we have discussed with this churning WebDoc related to the bankruptcies and also a high churn in adopus as we have talked about before. But in total, the net effect is that we end the quarter at the near our growth organically at 17 percent, which is decent compared to what we report in the quarter. Looking at the PNL, I talked about most of this already, but we we landed at 83 million in revenues, ups 26 percent gross profit margin remains stable at 85 percent. Then the big increase on the cost side is the personnel expense. Despite that, the day increased from eight to twelve million within the quarter and even then, this capex from minus one to two on an adjusted basis. And so far this year, we have improved from minus six in a bit to plus seven. So a good improvement, but still a bit behind what we had expected on the cash flow side. We are, of course, helped by these improvements in profitability, lower capex as well. If you look at the cash flow in the quarter, it was in total positive by a couple of million. For the first half of the year, we have talked about this in the past few quarters, but we had this really sting expenses that were the costs were taken in Q4. But if the invoices were paid in Q1, so that affects like the working capital for this year. Also, we had a bit of currency effects when we exchanged the cash from Nuk to SEC in Q1. So normally our working capital helps us support the cash flow. But this year it will be a bit affected by these really sting expenses. So that was what we were going through and then we can open up for a Q&A.

If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key six on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Elvin Roelder from DNB Carnegie. Please go ahead.

Hello, Daniel and Martin. I hope you're well and good morning. And thank you for keeping us busy throughout this week. I have a couple of questions from my end, maybe beginning a little bit with the restructuring of AdOpus, the merger with Alcuriis. When you look at the current organizational setup of the group, are you happy with what you have now given these changes you've made? Or do you see any obvious further improvements down the line that you're looking at? And how many people roughly in total did you have to let go from doing these initiatives in the quarter?

Yeah, thank you, Elvin. So restructuring of AdOpus in general, we run quite a decentralized organization because we think the most important is to be close to our customers. That's for a number of reasons. The first one is to develop solutions that actually fix our customers. The second is that sales and support really, really understand their customers. So in many parts, those are it's a decentralized organization. But in some areas, we really have some clear synergies and looking at AdOpus and Alcuriis, they share the same software. And the new AdOpus with AdOpus Web is actually the same software behind the scenes as our online visit tools for Alcuriis. So they're more and more working in the same platform. And then it makes sense to be the same organization. Also, Alcuriis is doing a great job with sales and delivery. They've done a really, really good quarter. And as Martin mentioned in his part, we ended the quarter really strongly on new customers going online. And that's thanks a lot to the Alcuriis organization doing a good job. The AdOpus organization, I think, can learn a lot from Alcuriis and regain from being part of that organization in that sense. And it also allows us to save costs. But in general, I think the decentralized structure is quite good. We would always look over the organization and do what we think at each point in time for the long term. And there might be that, especially with the acquisitions we're looking at, that they might fit well together with something we already have. And therefore will be combined with the present-day student, for example. In AdOpus, there was only two people that go. It was the head of it and another person. It's our smallest business unit, so it's quite a small organization. But it's always a bit more expensive than to let the head of CEO of a company to go. Also, we have had other roles that we have to let go in the entire group in the quarter to also lower costs. But the numbers that are in those three million is only those two, together with how much AdOpus is behind the plan so far. Did that answer your question already?

Yes, yes, more than enough. Thank you. And then maybe looking a bit on the med tank and finding a customer here in Vestagataland. Very positive to see, of course, that customers are pulling the trigger. Was there anything specifically that made MedPank go ahead right now? I mean, it's been pretty much a stalemate in the region so far, but has there been any changes that made them go ahead right now? And you mentioned that you have several good discussions with other clients there. Did you see a similar kind of development that you've had with MedPank and with those customers? If you can comment a little bit more on that.

Yeah, so MedPank is quite a big caregiver. I think they totally have a turnover of a bit over the one billion SEK. And they have a lot of primary care centers in Vestagataland. So for historical reasons, they've had WebDoc in roughly half of their clinics and CDM software in the other half of their clinics. And I think that they've seen that over time, the difference between those two systems have increased. So since 2018 until now, there's been quite a big improvement in WebDoc in the functionality and what we offer. And I think they've seen that that is now quite a big difference. So I think that's why they put the trigger, so to speak, and changed. So they will not be in new sales in our columns. They will be in growth in existing customers. Unfortunately, they say when we look at the numbers in Q1 next year. But I think the reason is that they see both softwares and they see the difference. I think that's quite a big reason. And the other one is that everything coming from VDAR, it seems very unlikely that any system will be pushed out in any time soon. And I think that all of the caregivers see that and we have discussions with other primary care centers. We have no present discussions with a primary caregiver of the size of METAnchian switching all clinics. So it will be more one clinic at a time in that case. But I think it's a really positive effect and positive signal. I will try to create some media around it after the summer to try to influence the politicians locally in the Yorubi.

OK, great. Thank you so much. And then regarding the ambient listening and the AI tools, I just want to clarify. When we're talking about 80 users, I mean, I can equal that to, I guess, 80 physicians. So it can be several in the same clinic, I guess, if you can clarify on that. And roughly how much is the revenue per user, would you say, if you can give some flavor on that? And then finally on AI, the 30 users you have live now, have these been using the other tools that you have partnered with? Or are these completely new to this kind of this kind of tool?

Yeah. Yeah. So it's 30 users that's alive. Yeah, if I was anchoring that earlier, 30 users and that's that's individuals. Yeah, so that's correct. And at Stage VR, we started focusing really on this product in the beginning of this year. So we have a half a year of minutes. We're investing in it, but we're not investing very heavily in it. So I think we still have some work to catch up to competitors when it comes to the quality of all parts of it. Then we have advantage is fully built in and so on. But we're rapidly catching up. So I think, for example, this week we will cut the time it takes to wait by a few. It will become a father for the boss last week. And then we will probably be the fastest in the market, I think, delivering the actual result of the discussion with the patient. That's extremely important for the position that when you say goodbye to the patient, that you don't have to wait too long to have a generated note. So that's this kind of improvements that we need to do. But we'll do them. And I think we have a clear roadmap on how to improve and how to move forward and more functionality. But I said before, I'm not stressed. We don't need to be first. I think it's quite good from our position to look a bit what works for our customers and what doesn't work. And then we build the things that work because there's been so many investments in health tech that has not been picked up by the customers, even if they bring good initiatives. But this this what we have seen is that this really fits the users, many users like it. So that's why we started investing in. And how to pay is that we charge today, we charge seven hundred fifty Kroner per user. And so we're cheaper than the competition. We still have really good minds on that. And the reason why we can be cheap is that we're not running in the American clouds, which I think have other launches to run it in our own server environment. And that means that we have quite high fixed cost for their solutions and the cost water they are taking for it in terms of of server capacity and GPUs. We can scale to at least 500 users without a problem. So probably quite far beyond that. So there are some things that. But so that's where we are at the moment. We are in early phases, positive feedback. We have some improvements we need to do and we will stop any users. The ones that are lying now have many of them have tested the different solutions about us. It's still early adopters that are using this type of technology, I would say. And it's still a minority, a clear minority of all users in our system that use any such solutions. But I think going forward, it's likely that we'll be more and more users of this technology as it gets better and better and also as it spreads. And healthcare is really conservative. It's slow in moving into new technology. But many are big fans and they really like it. So over time, I think it will really be a major point in our plans. It's still it's a cost entire year. It's not something that drives a lot of profitability this or next year. That answer your question. Very clear. Yeah,

yeah, yeah. Very good. Just just one clarification. Seven hundred fifty crowns per month. I guess. Yeah,

I used it. So it's good. It's you can say it depends on how much you use WebDoc, but it's it's a little bit less than what most you pay for the entire WebDoc. So if you compare the amount of time spent on building this compared to the amount of time spent building WebDoc, it's it has really good revenue per our invested.

Good. And then maybe a little bit on your answer. The most of my questions will be called it. I have a couple of questions on maybe the financial targets here because you lowered the Dac target somewhat. But I mean, looking at the age to level, it doesn't seem like it's a big, big difference really from how it was before. It's mostly been from what has now occurred here in the first half of 2025. How I mean, how confident are you in the current 2025 target? I guess you have better line of sight now than when you set out the initial target for more than a year ago. And if there's some uncertainty still regarding the 2025 Dac target, given the implementation of Volvo, that can maybe delay or delay that or how should we think about that?

Yeah, yeah, we compared our own plan. We still have some effects in the second half, too. So, but as I've said for quite some time that we felt that the targets were very little space left in them. I think I said it already in the end of last year that I was a bit worried about targets. And so but now, of course, much better visibility. It's not the targets are not with it's not a walk in the park to get there, so to speak. We still have to succeed in what we're doing. It's our best guess of where we'll end up. And I think we're on a good track to get there. We've taken a lot of measures in the first half that will help us in the second half. We'll always do a good Q3. We have the vacation effects there. So I think the autumn, I mean, obviously, if you look at the numbers, the autumn has to be really good. I expect to be really good. As you say, there is, of course, some risk of all that we're moving from six different systems into into one. So it's I mean, millennium in the yard, they didn't import any data from any old systems. So and that's quite a complex because you have the same patients in many of those systems and all these systems, And they continue to meet patients all the time, only 500 employees of that organization. So it's it's not the easiest process in the world. We've done it before in Metodica. We know how to do it. We moved entirely earlier, Norway into Metodica a couple of years ago. So I think we have great experience in doing it. Obviously, we underestimated the amount of adoption work needed. It also took longer to get access to our competitors databases that we need in order to export the data. But we have that now. So that there is a bit of risk involved, I would say, but we expect to manage and reach the targets. It's not a walk in the park, but we should be able to.

OK, thank you. And finally, I should let some other people ask a question as well. But I have one more. It's a bit on the new medium term targets. You said average 15 percent organic growth between 2026 and 2028. I'm just wondering if that feels kind of like your organic growth that the business kind of grows. You have normalized the basis, given your high retention, the normalized low churn and so on. But how much in that figure do you bake in from this kind of, as I see it, at least poor kind of organic growth, optionalities that you have with Stockholm opening up, with Germany expansion, with this AI tool and perhaps even the surgical module. How should we think in how do you think when you bake those four factors into this target? If you can comment a little bit on that.

Yeah, and that's obviously difficult looking that far into the future. So I think that I think we will have great opportunities if you look at Stockholm, you look at AI, you look at Germany. I think I think we have really great opportunities. On the other hand, things always happen as we see in this quarter. And I think that this target includes that things happen. And it's dangerous to put out previous targets based on everything we see as an opportunity. And then. Yeah. And being in my position, you obviously I believe very strongly, I think we do. So I could see us growing much faster also. But I think the sensible is to put out target that you feel very comfortable about. And these are financial targets. Then you have other targets that I mean, we're trying to drive the business faster than that. And then you have internal targets on what you want to accomplish, what you want to do. But I think when you get out financial targets, you need to be a bit prudent. And I think those targets are a bit prudent and especially given what we just have done two days ago. The first proper warning I think I ever have given us at stock as a listed company. So I'm not too happy about it. So I think that it makes sense to put out targets, which I mean, also, this is not a walk in the park, but the opportunities are much larger than that. So you have to find a sensible level to communicate and make sure that expectations out there are reasonable. So that's I think what we try to do. And it's not our business plan that we've given out as financial targets, so to speak.

Yeah, I fully understand. Thank you. That is very clear. Thank you so much for taking all my questions. I'll get back in line and see if there's any other questions.

Thank you. Good morning, Daniel, Elinz and Martin. I want to start with the primary care deal in Västra Götaland. And I mean, is this really the start of perhaps the positive case that you talked about last year, discussing the potential churn and so on, starting to playing out or is it or is that reading in too much in a first new customer?

Yeah, I think it's really a bit too much into it. I think it shows that customers are not that nervous about being forced into something very soon, but they're not yet get into a stage where they see it as a risk free. And that's where we would obviously like to end up with pushing different ways of getting there. The court process is still ongoing. I think there's a lot of other good reasons why it will be free. We know that some political parties are now pushing that also. And the caregivers, of course, are pushing it quite hard. On the other hand, the region don't want to give the private caregivers a lot of advantage over their own business. So that's the difficult part. I think that sense will prevail, but it's not given and we're not there yet. I think that it means what you should read into, I think, is that our customers are less worried than before. They are and that we are now quite a lot better than competition. And that's why they change. Despite it still being a bit of risk, because you really don't want to change your choice systems unless you have to. Or you don't have to, but unless there are really good reasons to do it. So I think they obviously see those reasons and that's really positive. So I would more say that WebDoc doing a good job and that the risk is a bit less in the region. But we're not there yet in the really positive case now.

OK, great. Could you elaborate a bit on the mix between the old and new product in Ad OOP? So we could get some kind of understanding when the negative trend might turn.

Yeah, so Ad OOP is a completely new product. It's really forward thinking. You have. They don't have patients, but I use that word anyway now to make it clear what I'm talking about. They have the caregiver and the patient working in the exactly same system. I mean, all of our systems have different types of patient portals for our own and third party solutions where you can interact between the clinician and the patient or and the clinic and the patient, the hospital and patients. But here I actually work in the same system and I think that's really groundbreaking. I've seen that before. Also, the UX is really thought out and it has a lot of optimization that really helps the caregivers. The challenge is that it's a bit too new. So the move from all that opens the web is the step is really big and you have you can become much more efficient. If you look at the Freetex video, they talk about it and they have they have put in efforts into implementing it and really making it work for them. And then they are much more efficient than before. So that's great. But not all customers want to do that journey. And I think that every time we develop solutions, they should always allow for you to work in your old ways. They should allow for new ways of working, but also always because customers don't always want to change how to work. And they don't want to change us because we tell them to change. And and that's something we work a bit with system to make to make it also allow for the old work close to to the function. It would be less efficient to work that way. But many customers really want to work in their old ways. So that's something we're doing. It's not really development. It's more setting up the system. So that's that's something we can do fairly quickly. We have roughly three customers, one of them being the logic that are fully into the new solution. And then we have many others who have started testing it. But that's also something I want to lower the pace on. I want us to take online like maybe three, four customers at a time, not more, to make sure that we do really well with the care of them. And they are happy with the process. If we try to take too many at the same time to the new system and it's you know, everything looks different. And if we're not close enough to them, then we'll have a chance. Even if the new one is good and they would appreciate if they got the right education, if they got those really helping them every step on the way. That's what we need to do. That's what we do great in WebDoc and Curies and all of that and many of our other products. And and we've been trying to push it a bit too quickly, actually, in our office, I would say, trying to move too many customers at once. I interviewed some of the ones that left us and and to me quite clear that the problem is we try to move them over a bit too early, but also that we have just learned how to move customers into the new system. So I think we're getting there and it's really good to see the first customer being happy. It's just the last two months they've been prepared to actually be with the English word that they are out there talking positive about the system and prepared to recommend it to others users. So we asked about Scott there and the coming 12 months we will not see any growth in the system. I hope we don't see any more churn. There will be some churn that's not yet in the numbers. So what really made us do the reorganization now was that we lost the second largest customer. So that will mean churn in Q1 next year. Not huge amount of churn. I mean, still at offices have a small less business area. So we shouldn't put too much time into that or shouldn't get us too much. But I think that it has the potential to really grow. And if you're looking at Adopus since I think it was acquired back in 2018, I think it was in Amazon and then it went to the center a bit later. They've gone from 90 customers to 30 customers. And that's because they've been building a we've been building a new solution to replace the old one. And that has taken time. But now it's there. And I think we'll start winning back those customers going forward. And we have a much better solution than anything else out there. I think maybe it was the wrong choice back many years ago to build such a completely new system to replace the old one. I think you could have done it more gradually. But that's that's in the past. There were many right decisions taken to. And that's why I think we have this kind of EU curve where we've been losing customers because the old one has not gotten enough love. And the new one has not been ready. But now we're getting there. And the turn back you had now was leading for another old system that's actually very similar to the one we're facing. That's because they they didn't feel comfortable enough going to our new system because we were not close enough for them. And we tried to move them a bit too early. So we are slowly pace. I'm sure we'll get people there and the entire robust organization. I feel like a lot of engine. I think they they like being part of a curious. It's a positive vibe. The development we do is done in Moldavia. So we have low low cost in what we're building. And it's in many ways a groundbreaking system actually. So I look forward to that. It will take time.

Great. Thanks. That's clear. And so we got an ambient listening products in general. There seem to be mixed feedback reading some news articles about larger caregivers implementing those. So could you give us an update on the customer feedback regarding medicine?

I guess I'll ask you, is that the report in GP about sodden as implementing of that you're referring to?

Yeah, that's one of the examples. Yeah, yeah.

So I think it's important to note that the implementation of what they call a. I mean, it has been criticized in media by the doctors is not a. I as we see it, it's all speech to text. It's a dragon. They call it. They called a. I don't know why it's a dragon. Nuance product dragon, which is a old speech to take solution that we've been selling to our customers for at least five years. Many of our customers use it. It is a good speech to text solution, but it's just a speech to text solution. And that's what they are and solving is trying to implement. The reason I think where they get this mixed feedback is is that they also take away the medical scribes, the people completely. So the doctors do not get any support anymore with, you know, writing letters. So they move them into a completely separate building. And I think that actually raises why the doctors are upset about the new tool. And I don't think it's the tool because that tool that they are selling, we have sold to our customers for at least five years. I don't know exactly when that started and we have very many happy users in that product. But that's what we're replacing. What's going live with now is what we're replacing with our solutions. So the ones that think it's like this not ambient listening as far as I've seen in lack of opinion or get there. So.

Great. That's that's clear. And also regarding medsum, according to your website, you will shortly launch medsum broadly. Could you give us some flavor on that? I mean, what time period are we talking about approximately?

Yeah, so we are selling it now. We're selling it. I have the process where we send out information about it to all our customers. Then I just talk Web Doc. That I have not done it yet. And what we want to reach is those early doctors that are interested in being part of the journey, so to speak, that are like the technology are open to give feedback. They are open to that. They might be not everything working perfectly yet, so they are happy to just be part of that post. And many, many doctors and nurses, therapists and so on, they like to be part of development. They are close to them, to our development people and get to be part of discussion. They get the influence what we build. So what we've got done is to let everyone know that it's coming soon so that they know and they don't sign up for other products long term. And then we've said that if you are instantly being early, early users, let us know. And then we have a list of I don't remember how many that has counted as saying that I'm interested. So out of those, we have taken 30 live and we'll continue to take users live. They some of them are paying someone of paying it because we moved from just giving it for free to pilots to now charging users. So not all 30 are paying, but all new one we're taking on will be paying users and all will be eventually. We have no hurry to make them start paying. The most important is to make them really happy with the solution and then they will be happy to pay. So that's where we're at.

Great. That's all for me. Thank you very much.

There are no more phone questions at this time, so I hand the conference back to the speakers for any written questions and closing comments.

OK, so we haven't gotten quite a lot of questions in the chat as well. We can try to be a quick in addressing them. The first ones are from Nicholas. It's in Swedish, so I'll try to translate here. But the development for what has taken more time than expected. Are you getting paid for just development going for better pay for development going forward or and do you see risk of delays further into 26?

Yeah, so usually he's talking about selling licenses, not renting them and then charge for development. We're changing that around to to to renting it and having folks on air instead and the long term valuation. So that meant in the Volvo deal that we have the cost per hour for all the options than what we usually take. We still around break even per hour, but we're not making a profit on the adoptions for them. But also, I mean, we are the one with the best view of how many hours it should take. So not all of it, but quite a lot of it. When it gets more work than needed, we have to take the cost. It depends a bit, but in general, in most cases we are taking the cost. So that means you're actually losing money on that options. But as I mentioned earlier, we'll have a really big swing next year. It's a really complex, big project. I think we're on a good track to deliver it to most of the US in November, which is the time that's set. We have some small systems that we'll move over in the beginning of next year. I think we're on good track to get there. And that is it's not without risks, but it's our best guess at the moment.

Next one, when do you expect Germany to be a substantial growth driver? So as we talked about before, we will have to start paying users within WebDocX this year. And then it will, of course, be like a gradual step up in terms of growth. So the growth rates in a percentage will be higher than like the rest of the group. But it will not contribute a lot to like the group organic growth the next couple of years. But towards the end of the new target period, we could see that WebDocX is materially contributing. Basically, next one is regarding the solution. I think we have addressed that. The question is how much how big part of your current user base is within the sweet spot for medicine?

Oh, I think basically, as I see it over time, all users that do a lot of documentation are in the sweet spot. In the beginning, it's mostly doctors, all doctors. But I think it will add to more and more users. I mean, we as I see it, we will, for example, if you want to do a say you want to do a referral, you can ask. You might not have to say anything at all. You don't might not have to have the recording from the patient. This is you can push a button and we take data from different parts of the system and write the proposal. So I think that it will become I think I said before, half of all our users do notes in any larger extent. So I think that's where the future user users will be. But it will take time. Healthcare is really slow at no technology. But this has been one of those that's been growing fast, as I would say, of music on this. So it's it's a real time saver. And that's what everyone's looking for.

The next one is, can you sell it standalone? And how do you resonate around that?

Yeah, maybe. We do not have an interface to medicine. I mean, it's completely built into the different systems. And I think that's the advantage we have and also the access to a lot of data in our systems. But it is a standalone that we're working towards many of our systems. So potentially we could sell it to the job providers that are not ourself. But that's not something you have taken the decision on and not something we have in our plans. But that's something we have fought a bit about.

Next couple of questions from Richard. Do you do any NPS with customers? And if so, have you considered publishing them?

We don't today have it in a format that's the same across our products. In general, I think that each product we have should focus on getting feedback and the structure that fits them. And not what fits us centrally or fits external parties. But I still think it's worth thinking about. But we don't yet have one structure for all products. And also something I would like to have implemented actually in all our system is that it uses every month. Get the question of how was your experience with system last month? Because then we could have much more real time data on how they like our system and how they experience it. Have a period of maybe some issues with the system, how they really experience it and so on. But we're not there yet. We're not able to prioritize that development yet. So I think we get there, but it's not the perfect question for us.

Right. Next one, excluding Adopus, what the churn levels look like. Are you happy with the levels? Yeah, so Adopus is close to one percent of the churn. So it would be like approximately around three. It's higher than we have had the last few years. And I think most of it is related to these bankruptcies and basically churn that it's difficult for us to impact basically involuntary churn. If we look at like the voluntary churn, the customers leaving us because they change the system, it's still very, very low, below one percent. So that level is good. But of course, the churn that is involuntary hurts us this year.

And we don't really have a good explanation why we had a lot of that now, to be honest. It's a bit surprising. I've been working in the private health care sector for a long time and I haven't seen this much bankruptcies. And there's nothing really in the market that I see that would drive it. I think part of it is that some of the tech startups are not getting funding anymore. So that's a part of the churn that we can say. But there's even more than that. And I think it might also be a bit that just it happened to be a couple of them at the same time.

OK, next one is relating to primary care and VGR. I think we covered it quite well, but there's one questionnaire regarding the interest from primary care centers if they will need two systems, Millennium or yours, or are they simply not believing in the role of Millennium at all?

So I would say that if you change system now to WebDoc, as this customer said, I don't want to put too many words in their mouth, so to speak. But it is I would say it's because you believe that it will not roll out and that there's nothing else being forced on them at least for five, six years, I would say. Otherwise, you don't do that change. It's not that you're planning for it being better when you have two systems that you might have to have for a few of them, but you wouldn't change systems for that.

Great. Next one from Rasmus. It would be interesting to know how you build up the 15 percent average growth given the business current growth rate in the low teens. Do you expect that to decrease as a I and WebDoc extra of the growth or what are the different growth drivers you see? So as I as I mentioned, I think WebDoc will build up gradually, so it will be a very small part of the group during this forecast period. So basically we see that the 15 percent is mainly driven by the current business we have and tools such as a I will drive the net retention naturally. But in general, the core business selling to new customers and selling all types of functionality, including I will will be the main growth driver as we see it.

Yeah, and we have improved sales quite a lot. We're selling more and more. We have this is high churn, but we're also selling much more. This salesperson is selling more and actually we're selling on and a bit above plan so far this year. So new sales are quite good and sales and customers are quite good. I think we can get better both. But this is is more of a there is a is much more of a top down target than a bottom up because the bottom up you can allow that crazy basis.

Yeah, and I would say that WebDoc will be a very important driver of the growth, which will grow probably above these targets and then the rest of the business a bit lower. Can you provide an update on the operations one, the surgery module?

Yeah, so we have I think it's now. Two pilots running it. We have two new clinics, quite large clinics starting after summer. I still existing customers and actually free after summer. I think this and they are all paying customers. They will not pay from day one, but they will be paying quite quickly and at a quite good level. And we will now start to really target the surgery clinic that are not well accused today. It takes time to convince a clinic of 50 to 100 users to change software from the point that they start thinking about it after meeting and we showing them things. I think it it takes probably a year before they actually commit to changing. It is a very slow process. We're doing the best we can to really push it. We have really good feedback from the users of the system. We still have some functional to add to make it even better. But I think it would be over this period would be a really important part of the growth for a clinic, especially in Stockholm. If you have if you have insurance patients, which many of them have and all of them have it in the strategic goals to improve on that. And if you have surgery, then we have to scale a better choice than what's out there for you. More than other cases in more than other cases. And if you also want to have different type of online tools connected directly into the system, then it's really clear that it's the best by far, I would say. So that's really sweet spot to grow. But it's also damage of big customers and quite long process.

Next one. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts about Skåne. Now that the smoke from video, yours launch of Millennium has settled down somewhat.

Yeah, so Skåne are saying that they will implement Millennium still. I think and I always thought that Skåne is a much better project around Millennium and they have a better version of it, too, I would say. I mean, both regions have spent since 2018 roughly to actually do adaptions and change in the system. And what we do when we live with extremely many users was something that was not even tested in a pilot. And I think to me, that's really strange. We would never ever something like that. Skåne has taken a much more sensible approach and they they had test versions and demo versions up and running way before we do. And they still haven't got live with any clinic, I think. So they're much better. But what Skåne has done is that they say now that Millennium will replace much fewer systems than they planned from the beginning. And I think that's quite a good process for us. And there might be and there seems to be openings that could be used for certain parts of care in Stockholm, in Skåne that we had not planned for. It's actually not still in our plans, but there seems to be some openings that are positive. I can't say more about it yet. And I think that it's not bad for us if Millennium eventually go live in VR. It doesn't have to be. It just I think for the hospitals, they don't have that much to choose from. Why not go live with Millennium? There's nothing really good for them to choose. And then let the primary care use WebDoc. I think that's a sensible choice or that the primary care choose between all the systems that are available for primary care. So let's see if we get to that point. That's not what's in our plans, not in our targets. But it's something we're working towards.

Next one, couple of questions from Janne Jockel. Could you comment on the development in Stockholm? Do you see clients shifting away from CDM already or not yet? And secondly, have you seen private clinics complaining about CDM software given their decision not to invest further? Do you hear more about bugs, etc.?

Yeah, so second first, yeah, we heard from customers that they don't really understand how that software is going to live until the end of the decade as it's in the plans. So, yeah, it's not too much happening there. And that's understandable. We had a system that we knew was going to be closed down in five years. I think we would invest very little in it. So it makes sense. And the difference between that system and ours will increase over time even more. Yeah, quite a lot of our new sales are in Stockholm. It's a clear focus for us. And we're working hard to make sure that everyone knows about us. And I think for every new customers we get to stop on more and more get to know about the system or more talk about it. And it helps us in the new six.

Next one, how is the development in Germany? Could you comment on that?

Yeah, I think the data business is running really well since the acquisition actually a bit better than we have planned for. We're winning customers. We have quite a good results in the business. We have now combined the R&D departments of the three products. We have one German market to one organization so that we can have clear position. And obviously we have to maintain the software we have there already in the market. We have to do some development for the data. So for that's going to live for quite some many years still for some of the users. But we focus mostly on WebDocX. Whereas before we had the aim to get paying customers now during the second half of the year. It will not be a big part of the revenues or growth in the autumn. But it's anyway extremely important to start getting paying customers and start getting customers that can talk to other customers about our products.

Next question from Christopher Gassberg in regards to the profit warning. When did you realize an update before Q2 was necessary? And what is the main learning from this process for the management?

So it's difficult to say an exact point in time when you realize. I've been saying on this call and on other calls that there is little space. There's less space in towards than I would like to compare to our own budget. There should be there should always be a bit of positive difference. I think the main learning is I think our medium targets are a bit more. They have more space in it. I think that's an important part. There is more space for things not going as planned. So I think that's probably the main learning to make sure to have that type of space. From our perspective, there's so many opportunities, so much good we can do, so much value we can add for our customers that it's very easy to see all those opportunities. And I think that to have some space in the targets and what you actually see as doable is an important learning.

Next one, the rise target for the Minus Cup X is lower significantly from 44 to 49 to 35 million. Deliberate a bit more about this. I think we had talked a lot about it in the call. But the main reasons there is that the result in age one is a bit behind what we expected. And that is partly driven by these extra costs we have talked about, but also this development for for metodica and and and vol what and the investments and that those will naturally continue throughout the year.

Yeah, just to mention, there's been a lot of questions today and I have to go with an interview at the Agens Industri here. But when Martin can see the next couple of questions he can answer. So I'm sorry for for being a bit double booked. Usually this course will take this long and we've given a bit too long answers. But I have to go for that interview. But thank you for me so far. And so Martin will answer the final questions. Thank you.

Yeah, we don't have a lot more questions, but a couple. So 750 Kroner for the solutions is that for ambient listening only and the AI for referrals is a separate product to that which can help expand the 750 going forward. So yeah, so that's for the base product. And then ambient listening and then where when we add functionality, it has potential to either increase the revenue base or or reach more users depending a bit on how we position it. But definitely potential as we add more functionality. Next one, can you give an update on the surgery module and when the market potential of 150 million knock that you have previously communicated is plausible. Yeah, so Daniel mentioned this thing quite detailed, but the market is still there. The product is is close to being final. So we think that this will be a very important growth driver for WebDoc in the in the coming years, particularly these types of clinics and also the stock market with with these types of clinics. Yeah, so final question we have gotten here from Victor. Can you give an update on Germany and to clarify selective M&A would be primary in Sweden if it happens, I guess. So the update on Germany, Daniel mentioned on the M&A side. Yeah, I would say the the selective M&A that we're looking at now, it's not a lot of companies. It's a handful and and all of it would basically be to strengthen our position in in Sweden, as we see now, and given that we believe that we have enough to work on in in Germany at the moment with the data and WebDocX and getting that commercially viable. So we don't really have capacity there to do more M&A at the moment. I mean, in a couple of years time, it might be opportunity if we are able to succeed. But then at the moment, we exclusively focus on on the local market basically. So with that, that was all the questions we had to thanks a lot to all for for dialing in and please reach out if you have additional questions to us. Thank you.