ASR Nederland N.V.

Good day and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the ASR full year 2025 results conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star 1 1 on your telephone. You will then hear an automatic message advising your hand is raised. To answer your question, please press star 1 1 again. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Michel Holtzers. Please go ahead.

Thank you, operator, and good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us today. Welcome to the ASAR conference call on our full year result of 2025. On the call with me today are Jos Baten, our CEO, and Ewout Hollegien, our CFO. Now, just to kick it off with the progress of our strategy and the highlights of our financial results. Ewald will then talk about the development of our financials, capital, and Sol C position. After that, we will open up a Q&A. We have ample time planned for this call, but we will stop sharply at 10.30. So please observe a limit of two questions, and that means that everybody has got a chance at least to ask questions. Finally, as usual, please do review the disclaimer that we have in the back of the presentation for any forward-looking statements that we may be making in this presentation. So having said that, Jos, the floor is yours.

Thank you, Michel, and good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. I'm very proud to report that 2025 has been again a great year for ASR. We made significant progress in executing our business strategy and we have delivered strong financial performance. So let's start on slide two and take a closer look at the progress we've made in executing our plans. I'm pleased that the integration of the Aegon NL business has been successfully completed And we have realized that well within three years after closing the deal. A key milestone in the implementation of the partial internal model for ASR Live. And as we expected, it delivered an uplift of 12 percentage points in the solvency tool ratio. Additionally, decommissioning of the former Aegon systems has started and after completion, we will achieve our run rate cost synergy target of 215 million euros. Secondly, on profitable capital deployment, we've materially strengthened our balance sheet over the past year, enhancing our capacity to be entrepreneurial and seize the right opportunities. In the past year, we've deployed capital in attractive inorganic growth. We've done free biotransactions and we have acquired the remaining shares of the human total care. This strengthened our position in the field of occupational health, services and reintegration. And last but not least, we announced the acquisition of Bovaymai at the start of this year, a mid-sized P&C insurer with a strong distribution network in the mobility sector. These deals fit perfectly in our business strategy, but also quite happy with the profitable organic growth that we realize, which will support us in achieving the OCC target of 1 billion and 350 million euros for the full year 2026. Lastly, we also raised the capital returns to our shareholders. We increased the total amount of the dividend by 7% And we announced a total of 280 million in share buybacks over 2025, of which 175 million Euro announced today and 105 million Euro in our participation in the sell-down by Aegon in September last year. The dividend of 3 Euro and 41 Euro cents per share is a 9.3% increase. So significant progress in delivering on our C&D plans. Let's go to slide three. Our OCC increased over 10% to 1,315,15 million euro. This is driven by business growth, higher investment margin, and the realization of cost synergies. The solvency ratio increased with 20 points to 218, which includes the uplift from the implementation of the partial internal model in ASR Live. Our operating result rose 12% and came in at 1,637,000,000. Operating return on equity rose to 14.1%, comfortably above our hurdle of more than 12%. In non-life, the combined ratio for P&C and disability stood at 90%. 92.2, this is at the lower end of our target range of 92 to 94. The non-life combined ratio benefited again, I should add, from favorable weather, but it also includes provisioning in group disability. Organic growth in non-life of 3% is within the target range and in line with our expectation and reflects price competition from foreign players, particular in relative capital light products through mandated agents. In pension DC and annuities, we saw solid inflows and combined with the pension buyout deals we've executed so far, delivering on our profitable growth ambition. Let's move to slide four and look at how we are progressing on our sustainable KPIs and we continue to create sustainable value for all of our stakeholders. Our investment portfolio is clearly on track to meet its targets for both carbon footprint reduction as well as impact investments, where we aim to deliver positive impact. I am pleased to see that our employee engagement increased to 77. This increase comes after a decline last year. The integration of Aegon Netherlands businesses and the merger of two corporate cultures And overall, FTE reductions had, of course, an impact on our people. But we're now on our way back up, and our ambition is to achieve a score of 85. We also see very positive developments in customer satisfaction. This is already exceeding the target a year ahead of plan. The higher score in customer satisfaction reflects that we've been able to successfully execute the business integration whilst keeping focus on servicing our customers. Our other non-financial metrics also show good progress and our compelling ESG profile remains acknowledged by a broad range of international ESG indices and benchmarks. Let's move to the integration of Aegon Netherlands. Last year, we integrated the mortgages and live individual businesses. In the meantime, we've disconnected all product lines from the Aegon systems, which allows us to decommission these systems before mid-year 2026. This is the final step in realizing our run rate synergy target of 250 million in 2026. The full benefit will show up in 2027. I already mentioned the implementation of the partial internal model, which better reflects the risk specific to ASR. Completion of the integration process allowed us to capitalize the remainder of the cost synergies associated with the live business. The final step is the legal merger of ASR and AgonLife. The preparation for this legal merger has been already made and this is expected to be realized early July. Therefore, I am proud that we have successfully integrated the Aegon Netherlands business within three years after closing. A tremendous achievement of the company and an important step in creating the leading insurer in the Netherlands. Let's dive into other elements of our strategy that we've delivered on. At the CMD in June, we presented our targets for the period 24-26. We delivered on the integration as just discussed. But I'm also very happy to see that we finally closed the unit link file. ASR's final settlement solution has provided clarity and certainty for policyholders. Our solution is widely accepted by the affiliated customers. All collective legal claims have been stopped and payments have been made. Turning to our balance sheet, this has been strengthened significantly in the recent years. The sale of the bank, the capitalized cost synergies, and the PIM. In total, this boosted our solvency ratio by circa 40-40 points, and it enhances our capacity to be entrepreneurial. to seize the right opportunities and to deploy the capital for profitable growth, organically as well as through acquisitions. And as we have shown with deals such as Boveme and HTC, as well as the pension buyouts. And lastly, we presented our intention to progressively grow our dividends by mid to high single percentage, and we laid out a share buyback program of 525 million euro, which we already increased by 205 with the additional buybacks on the back of the sale of KNAPP and the participation in the first Aegon sell down in September last year. Over the year 25, we will return 75% of our OCC to shareholders and 25% was invested in inorganic growth, like for example buybacks, sorry, buyouts. So a very strong delivery. Let's move to the performance of our segments, starting with non-life. The premiums received in our non-life business grew by 3%, which is within our target of 3% to 5%. This was mainly driven by tariff adjustments and higher sales volumes in the P&C commercial lines and group disability. In disability, the selective tariff adjustments means not only that pricing better reflects the claim risk, it often also presents an opportunity to cleanse the customer base and improve the underlying quality of the portfolio. We do see competition pick up, particularly in capitalized product lines and primarily from foreign players that offer underwriting capacity to mandated brokers. Of course, we keep an eye on this, but our strategic principle has been for many years value over volume, and this remains the case. So we will continue to pursue profitability over market share. This is demonstrated by the combined ratio of our P&C and disability business, which at 90.2% comes in at the lower end of our target range of 92 to 94. In P&C, the combined ratio was 90, 90.4, and remained strong and better than targets. Similar to last year, profitability was supported by the absence of weather-related calamities, and we experienced a low amount from larger claims. In disability, the combined ratio went up with three percentage points, ending just above our target range due to additional provisioning in the group disability portfolio. We experience adverse claim developments due to elevated incidence rates, especially related to psychological absenteeism and long COVID. We believe this is a broader market phenomenon, which has become more challenging due to the significant backlog at the UWV, the Dutch Employee Insurance Agency. Our pricing has been adjusted to reflect this phenomenon and to further restore our profitability to appropriate levels in 2026. Let's now move to the live segment on the next slide. The strong commercial performance in our pension business has continued. DC inflows are up 9%, annuities are up 11% and driven by the pension reform. We executed on a total of three buyout deals this year totaling almost 3 billion euros. our pension DC business continued to grow with inflow of 3 billion in 2025. The pension DC assets and the management increased even further as a result of positive market developments. Annuity inflows are also gaining pace, driven by maturing DC assets. The majority of annuity inflows come from expiring DC assets from our own book. we're right on track to deliver our 1.8 billion cumulative annuity inflow targets. In the pension buyout space, we've shown strong deal execution in the first half of the year. Competition, however, most notably from the second half of the year is strong. We continue to believe that the total market opportunity is 20 to 30 billion, of which a part is likely to materialize even beyond 28. However, we remain rational and disciplined and will only pursue deals where we can make our minimum required return. And you all know that's at least 12% IRR. Nonetheless, the buyout deal so far put us well on track towards the 8 billion euro cumulative target. And finally, we closed a longevity reinsurance deal on the back of 1.3 billion pension buyout liability, which enhances the capital efficiency on the transaction and does the return on capital. Ewart will talk about a bit more about exploring the reinsurance, to reinsurance the longevity risk of a part of our back book. Let's turn to our fee-based business on the next slide. The fee-based business grew by 15.5%, partially driven by inorganic growth. Human total care is included in the DNS segment onwards from the fourth quarter. In July, we announced the full acquisition of human total care, the market leader in occupational health and reintegration services. This deal strengthens our position in the value chain of sustainable employability. With absenteeism on the rise, a tight labor market, and a higher retirement age, prevention and reintegration are more relevant for the business than ever before. Our mortgage production remained robust, even while executing a major portfolio migration. This is a very solid achievement of the mortgage team. The operating result increased by almost 25% to 186 million Euro driven by solid business growth and the realization of cost synergies. Looking ahead, I believe our fee-based business are well positioned for further growth. So let's move to my final slide before I hand over to Ewout on our attractive capital returns since our IPO in 2016. As our profits and capital generation grow, we can also increase returns to our shareholders. The total capital return to shareholders amounts to 75% of our OCC in 25. Our dividends per share of 3 euro and 41 euro cents represents a 9.3 increase compared to last year. And since IPO, our dividend per share has experienced a 12% compound annual growth rate. So 12% of the last 10 years per annum, which is enormous. Today, we announced a share buyback of 175 million, which is the second tranche of our share buyback program over the planned period, totaling 525 million euro. The final tranche of our share buyback program, which is 225 million over the full year 26, can be accelerated, and listen carefully, can be accelerated if and when Aegon initiates further sell downs of their position in ASR this year. As you all know, we operate from a capital position of strengths and deploy capital rationally. We are no capital hoarders. So in case we can't find proper deployment, we will return it to shareholders, as we demonstrated with the additional 100 million euro on the sale of the bank and the 105 million euro additionally with which we participated in the sell-down of Aegon. An update on our capital management policy can be expected at our CMD on the 1st of December this year. And with that, I'll hand over to Ewout to work through the financial and capital position. Ewout, the floor is yours.

Thank you, Jos. And you behaved well by not doing a rep today. So thanks for that as well. Good morning to everyone on the call. The results we're presenting today highlights the strong financial performance and the robustness of our capital position, and it confirms that we are advancing well towards our strategic objectives. Now turning to slide 12 and kick off with the capital wheel. The capital wheel has been spinning for quite some years already. We are operating from a position of capital strength. Our source C2 ratio rose to 218%, giving us ample capital to fund our initiatives for profitable growth. We have proven to be successful in deal-making for inorganic growth, one of the cornerstones of our capital deployment strategy. The OCC benefited again from strong underwriting performance, the absence of large weather-related claims, and higher investment returns. And we are well on track to hit the €1,350,000,000 target by 2026. And as Josh mentioned, our capital return remains strong as our dividend per share rose by 9% and today we announced to execute a 175 million euro share buyback. Looking at our 2025 delivery, we deployed 100% of our capital generation. 75% was returned to shareholders and 25% was invested in profitable growth. This balanced allocations ensures that our capital wheel keeps spinning. Now let us zoom in on how Asolci developed in 2025. We have implemented the partial internal model to the balance sheet of ASR Live, which strengthened Asolci's position by 12%, which is the upper end of the earlier communicated range. We will discuss the partial internal model in more detail later in the presentation. We have deployed capital in free buyout deals in the first half of 2025, adding almost 3 billion euro of assets and liabilities, and the acquisition of the remaining shares of Human Total Care, which combined had an impact of 6 Solstice points. This includes the reinvestments of buyout assets towards the target asset mix in the second half of the year. And this Solstice impact was partly offset by the execution of longevity reinsurance of 1.3 billion euro buyout liability. This year we also explore if it makes sense for HR to reinsure the longevity risk of a part of our back book. Just below half of our Aegon life book is already reinsured and another part of the book is naturally hatched by mortality risk from our funeral and individual life portfolio. With that in mind, about 10 billion euro of remaining liability is applicable for longevity reinsurance in the short term. although we would probably aim for a deal size of around 3 to 5 billion if the longevity reinsurance remains to be attractive. The level of capital generation of 1.3 billion euro contributed 21 solstice points to the ratio. The market and operational movement shows an uplift of 7 percentage points and this includes a positive impact from the steepening of the interest rate curve which we already mentioned at the H1 stage, and positive revaluations in real estate, especially in residential and rural. The positive impact on spread tightening in government and mortgage spreads has been offset by two specific special items, that is the downgrade of defense government bonds and the adjustments of our mortgage spread methodology, more a topic in a minute. Lastly, operational developments also contributed positively to the Solstice token. We capitalized the remainder of our cost synergies, marking finalization of the Aegon NL integration, and we raised the leg DT, releasing some conservatism and bringing it more in line with market practice. This brings the Sol C2 ratio to 221% before any capital management actions. And after deducting the 11% points to the dividend, 4% for the share buyback in the first and the second half of the year, and the 12% uplift from the addition of the PIM to Asia Alive, we land at a strong solstice ratio of 280% for the year end. Truly robust and well positioned in the entrepreneurial zone. And let's turn to the next page to see what is still in store for the solstice position in the coming years. At our Capital Markets Day in June 2024, We presented the future catalyst for our Solstice position, which due to the cash conservation of Aegon ML acquisition stood at that moment in time at 176% at year end 2023. Some analysts, some of you, calculated that we would get to a Solstice ratio of 220% in 2026. But as you know, we first want to have clear visibility on delivery before people getting overly enthusiastic. But today, I'm very pleased that we have reached that number one year earlier, increased dissolved supposition with over 40% in only two years, and at the same time, invested in buyouts, M&A, and we did 205 million euro buybacks more than initially planned. Frankly, I'm extra proud because each of these items did not just suddenly happen, but are a result of hard work and dedication from our employees. For the coming year, I should already mention some expected movements. We will see an impact from capital deployment to support inorganic growth. In early January, we announced the acquisition of Bofei Mai, which is expected to reduce SolvC by around 3.5 points. We are hopeful for further bold-on deals. In addition, we anticipate on additional buyout transactions over the course of the year. However, as George already mentioned, we remain financially disciplined and stick to our values over volume principle. The expected contribution of the AOPA 2020 review is mid to high single digit. This is driven by a lower risk margin, slightly offset by different regulatory discount curve, and where the benefits of the VA is offset by the elimination of the determinate adjustment. And just to ensure everyone is on the same page, the determinate adjustment, DA, is an Aegon Life specific element from the partial internal model that aims to resolve the mismatch of spread movements between own portfolio versus the AOPA VA portfolio via required capital. And this has been temporarily allowed for Aegon Life until the introduction of the new AOPA regime. As said earlier, there is a lobby going on to allow insurers to report already by full year 2026 under the new regime, but fair to say that I now expect that the implementation date of Solstice 2 review will be January 2027, meaning that the impact of the review will be reflected in our H1 2027 results. Given the fact that the DEA will be eliminated the sooner of the legal merger of life entities as it is not part of the internal model for ASR life or the AO by 2020 review, that could mean a split between the minus 4% of the DA by full year 2026 and 10% in H1 2027 from the review. Now let's discuss the partial internal model on the next slide. The partial internal model reflects a more accurate view of ASR risk and risk interdependencies. While doing so, we gained 600 million euros of principal capital. This strengthens the balance sheet and creates additional capacity to pursue opportunities, accelerating the spinning of the capital wheel. Besides releasing the capital, the model enables more efficient and economic pricing, asset allocation and risk retention decision, supporting our growth ambitions. If we take a closer look at the source of the capital relief, we distinguish between underwriting risk and market risk, where the majority of the uplift comes from underwriting risk. Within the internal model, the interaction between longevity and mortality risk is much better reflected. When one risk increases, the other automatically decreases. This is the key improvement of the internal model compared with the standard formula. Next to that, also the level of the shock and the longevity trend is lower and a better reflection in the partial internal model of the Dutch circumstances. The lower required capital also leads to a lower risk margin, and in total we see an 11% solstice uplift coming from underwriting risk. Within market risk, we see various offsetting effects. Real estate becomes more capital efficient under the internal model, where interdependencies with other asset classes are reflected more accurately. In particular, the inflation-linked characteristics of real estate are captured far better in the internal model than under the standard formula. Spread risk is higher in the internal model, reflecting the inclusion of mode gauges, while in the standard formula they sit in the counterparty default module, and the application of a modest charge to covenant bonds. Overall, the combined effect across market risk results in a small net benefit, contributing to a total solstice uplift of around 12 percentage points from applying the internal model to ASR Live. At the legal entity level, the contribution is over 30%. Before we move to the Solstice sensitivities, it is important to note that the transition to the PIM creates a small headwind for the level of capital generation. The partial internal model leads to a lower required capital, which reduces the release of capital recognized in OCC. Impact is around 10 million per annum, as this is partly offset by a lower capital strain on new business. Let's turn to the next slide. The expansion of the internal model leads to limited changes in our solstice sensitivities. For interest rate sensitivities, we maintain our hedging strategy aimed at stabilizing the solstice ratio, and we have adjusted our hedge position to reflect the partial internal model, and as a result, interest rate sensitivities remain broadly unchanged. Also in the spread modules, we observe only limited impact on the sensitivities. Please note the determinic adjustment currently has a dampening effect on the sensitivities and will be removed as of age 2026. And of course, the VA will remain in place and will continue to have a dampening effect on spread movements. At half-year stage, we will provide an updated view on our sensitivities. Equity sensitivities continues to reflect the impact of asymmetric adjustments from the standard formula, albeit to a lesser extent. And the real estate sensitivity increased because lower required capital charge under the PIM provides less mitigation of the impact on funds. Let's turn to our level of capital generation on the next slide. The OCC increased by 10% to 1 billion and 350 million Euro, in particular driven by the finance capital generation, which is the largest in the life segment. This is driven by a number of factors. Re-risking in the second half of last year, positive equity and real estate revaluation, why the government spreads, contribution from buyouts and the steepening of the interest rates increased the finance capital generation by 180 million. Secondly, the non-life result increased as a result of higher business and finance capital generation, which was partly offset by a lower net SIR impact, mainly related to the new business strain from the growth in disability. The non-life OCC includes the provision in strengthening in disability. Our fee-based business contributed an additional 27 million to OCC, supported by an improved operating result. Now looking ahead, how we plan to achieve our 1.35 billion OCC target for 2026. The OCC of 1.1 billion and 350 million euro per full year 2025 was held by favorable weather in PNC. Normalizing the non-life combat ratio to the middle of the range would bring the OCC to around 1 billion and 290 million Euro. Taking this as a starting point, I see a couple of main moving parts to bring us to the 1.35 billion Euro target for 2026. That includes growth of the business, the full contribution of the pension buyout deals close in 2025, synergy benefits, and this is then partly offset by the negative impact from the lower net capital release due to departure internal model, the transfer of mortgages to BAWAG as part of the KNAP deal, and accelerations of investment in AI and technology that are currently taking place. Taking all these items into account, we expect the OCC for full year 2026 to be north of 1.35 billion euro. The operating result increased by 12% to €1,637,000,000. The live segment delivered a strong increase of €183,000,000, mainly driven by a higher CSM release, reflecting, for example, the full capitalization of cost synergies and a higher investment portion, which is consistent with the uplift we also observed in our OCC. In non-live, continued business growth and solid profitability contributed positively to the operating result. However, the result is slightly lower than last year due to the additional provisioning group disability and accounting change, which is not part of the 2024 OCC. For the holding and other segments, the temporary allocation of IT infrastructure charges relate to the integration and investments into new technology and AI resulted in a lower holding and other operating results. The longer term Plan and contribution of new technology and AI is something we will talk about on the Capital Markets Day in December. Let's turn to our investment portfolio. This slide illustrates the strength of our investment portfolio. It is high quality, well diversified and resilient. As mentioned at the half-year stage, we have now updated our market spread methodology to reduce the uneconomic short-term volatility in the Solstice Ratio. This volatility stemmed from slowly adjusting mortgage tariffs on the one hand and volatile interest rates on the other. Under the updated methodology, the mortgage spread is derived using an eight-week average interest rate, reducing volatility in mortgage spread by roughly one-third, as you can see on the page. As a result, the likelihood of mortgage spread peaking at unusually high or low levels is now significantly lower. Consequently, our market sensitivity scenario has been adjusted from 50 basis points to 25 basis points. For year end 2025, based on the new methodology, we applied a net spread of 104 basis points, which we consider a fair representation at the through the cycle level. And finally, let us have a look at the revaluations in the real estate, which have been once again strong this year. Around 70% of our portfolio consists of residential property and rural land, which deliver revaluations of over 7% and almost 9% respectively. On average, the entire portfolio revalued by 5.7%, including rental yields, the total return in 2025 exceeds 8%. Let's look at the flexibility of the balance sheet on the next slide. I truly believe we have a very strong balance sheet with ample financial flexibility. In March, we issued a restricted Tier 1 instrument to refinance the maturing Tier 2 in September of 2025. And by replacing the Tier 2 with an RT1, we have further rebalanced our headroom over Tier 2 and 3 versus the RT1, enhancing our financial flexibility. As you can see on the bottom right-hand side, our debt maturity schedule remained nicely staggered over time. And lastly, we are very proud that we can present on this slide for the first time since we are listed an A-plus rating of our operating entities. The upgrade confirms that the financial strength, the consistent performance, and the leading market positions across products is also clearly recognized by the rating HC. And finally, let's end with our whole core liquidity, which remains very comfortable. As you know, we only upstream cash from our operating entities to cover last year's dividends, coupons and holding expenses. Starting this year, we are including a portion of our unconditional revolving credit facility in the definition of holding liquidity, because this allows us to retain more cash within the legal entities where we can achieve a better yield. As a result, the amount of cash required at holding level becomes lower. Remittance is definitely not hampered by the solstice ratio of our legal entities. Solvency ratios at our life entities are very strong, peaking at levels above 200%. The ASR life entity is materially strengthened by the application of the partial internal model, resulting in an uplift of more than 30% points at entity level. Aegon's life solvency ratio also increased despite deductions for remittance to the group and capital deployment related to pension buyouts. The continued strong capital position at Aegon Life provides capacity for us to remain active in the buyout market. In addition, ASR Non-Life operates from a rubber solstice position of over 160%, which represents an 8% response increase compared to last year driven by retained OCC. And this concludes my part of the presentation. But before I hand it back to Jos for his wrap-up, I believe it would not be right to just let this moment pass by without noting that this call marks Jos' final analyst call. And Jos, I know you prefer to ignore this fact and rest assured I'm not going to be sentimental and I won't take long, but many in the audience today will remember that our journey on the capital market started with our IPO in June 2016. Our share price was 1950, market cap just below 3 billion, and our cap gen and operating profit were not even one-third of what it is today. In almost 10 years as a listed company, ASR has transformed itself under your leadership into a leading Dutch insurer with a strong earnings profile, a rock-solid balance sheet, high customer satisfaction, and recognized in Dutch society by its sustainability profile. A company with a strong performance track record, known for under the promise and over the liver and well positioned for a successful future. And I know you will give credit to the rest of the organization, but you should be really proud of the progress ASR has made and everything that has been achieved. So thank you for that on behalf of myself, the rest of the organization, but I'm sure also on behalf of the investor community. And having said this all, I would like to hand it back to you, Jos, and hope very, very much that you will enjoy this final webinar.

Thank you, Eward, and I definitely will enjoy the final wrap-up, especially after your kind words, which were unexpected for me because, in my feeling, the fat lady hasn't seen yet. So I will continue to deliver until the last minute of my CEO ship. And wrapping it up, I think we really can be proud on the successful completion of the integration of Aegon NL. On track to realize the run rate cost synergies target of 215 million euro and we deliver the 12% solvency points benefit from the application of the PIM to ASR Live. A solid performance in all business segments supported by increased investment returns. OCC on track to achieve medium term target on 1.35 billion in 2026. a very robust solvency ratio of 218, reflecting very strong OCC and favorable market developments supported by the uplift from expanding the PIM. And finally, proven execution in the pension buyout market and with the acquisition of both AME and HTC, we are confident on delivering on all of our medium term growth targets. Before we take your questions, today indeed, as Ebert already said, marks a special day, as this is in fact the last set of results that I will present to you as CEO of ASR. At the upcoming AGM in May, I will hand over the helm to Ingrid de Zwart, our current COO and CTO, and I do so with full confidence. I truly believe that under Ingrid's leadership, we will continue to grow towards being the leading insurance company in the Netherlands. And with that, the floor is open for your Q&A.

Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star 1 1 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To answer your question, please press star 1 1 again. We will now take our first question. Coming from the line of core clues from ABN AMRO-OdoBHF, please go ahead.

Hello, good morning. Yeah, I think first the most important part, Jos, thank you very much for all the work that you've done the last, I still know you from that you built and were running the Rotterdam unit, ASR, and you built it into a huge company which is now owning the Dutch insurance market. Many thanks for that and the great cooperation with you. You will still remain around for a while, but many thanks for that. Then the first question is about solvency, especially the real estate part. I think the solvency was, of course, clearly better than expected. Could you elaborate a little bit more on the market effect, especially on the real estate part? What was the contribution of the real estate valuation from residential houses, et cetera, and rural on the solvency ratio? And how conservative have you now valued the residential houses in Europe? I still think that you have quite some discount on that, because house prices went up, of course, in the Netherlands a lot. And you reflected that in the solvency, but still I think you have quite some discount there, especially because the Dutch transaction tax was reduced by 2.5% on the 1st of January, so that should also benefit you. And second question is about buyouts. I know you're very disciplined on buyouts. I thought that there were some deals in the market that you didn't do anything, and I think NN didn't do anything either in H2. What's your view on pricing and volumes to come in the coming years? And my last question is about M&A. I think you have done so many acquisitions the last decade. You just did one. Is there still some more potential to do this year? What's your view on this? what you see in the market. That's it from my side.

Thanks, Cor, and also thanks for your kind words. Hopefully not everybody is going to make me blush, and please stop with that and wait at least until tomorrow evening when we see you all live. For the solvency question on real estate, I hand over to Ewout, and I will take the two other questions.

Yeah, so the contribution to, so of course we always expect some revaluation in the level of capital generation. We assume a 5.5% pre-tax total return on real estate is always a kind of a portion of revaluation that we expect. If we deduct that, additional one or two, one and a half on average, Solstice points is added from the revaluation that we have seen both on the residential side as well on the rural side. So both asset classes had very strong performance last year. And with that, we are moving a bit towards the... Sorry, there's a call going on here. So with that, we are moving a bit towards the historical level of 80% that we have seen. It is correct that we've seen that the transfer tax in the Netherlands is actually going down per the 1st of January 2026, and it's going down just over 2%. And that is a one, you can see that more as a one-on-one upside also in the valuation of residential houses. So that's the, and with that, we expect also to close further the gap between the market value of houses and what we currently have, how it's currently being valued on our balance sheet. So around 2% uplift in the valuation, what we expect from the transfer, lowering of the transfer tax, closing the gap.

Thanks. Then on your second question, Cor, on the buyouts and especially on the pricing dynamics, we indeed currently see some so-called leapfrogging from competition. Let's say until the beginning of last year, actually only Athora and ASR were very active in this market, and both of us were able to win a number of contracts. Since the introduction of 6th Street at ACMIA, we have seen a third player in the market, and that creates more pressure on pricing. And that means that we decided to remain disciplined. The value over volume principle is a hard one within ASR. At the same time, we have looked into the potential pipeline going forward. That's why I said during my presentation that we're still confident that we are able to make the 8 billion. It may take maybe a year longer than initially projected. But even when we do deals, they have to meet the 12% IRR. So yes, we do see more competition and we will see how it plays out in the long run, but we remain confident. Then on your third question on M&A, actually what we've said over the last two years that we still see opportunities in the P&C area, I think the acquisition of Bovemei is a proof point that there is really opportunity to do so. And we also explained that we still see a tale of, let's say, 15 to 20 PNC players owning roughly 35% of the market. and that within that cohort of medium-sized and smaller players, we still expect that there will be necessity for further consolidation due to the investments in AI, due to increased regulatory pressure, et cetera. If you look into the reason why Bovemei looked for new ownership, They couldn't follow up on all the developments in investing in AI and digitalization, etc. And we really know there are more players that will face that difficulty in the future. So yes, we do see opportunities there. Secondly, we think that the live market is not yet consolidated, especially the funeral market has to consolidate further. So we expect that there will arise opportunities there. And maybe and hopefully there will be one more larger live consolidation in the near future in the Netherlands. So from that perspective, we're optimistic that ASR can do further transactions there. Whether that will be this year, that's to be seen. We never can give comments on the period where something should happen. But we remain very optimistic in that area.

Great. Many thanks for all.

Thank you. We will now take the next question from the line of David Barma from Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. Firstly, on OCC, please, Ewald, thanks for the bridge you gave for 26. Can we come back to that and particularly what you're assuming for the contribution of human total care above AMA and some of the re-risking that I thought would go through together? I would have thought alone these things would take you above the 2026 target, so if you can give a bit more detail on the assumptions there. And then secondly, on longevity, So you've announced the longevity reinsurance transaction on some of the pension buyouts done to date. Can you please explain how that impacts the new business train and the IRR for buyouts, please? Thank you.

Let's start with the bridge of capital generation and especially the items that you requested for how those are contributing. What we try to make clear is that we have a very strong starting position of 1.315 million euros, but you see that the combined ratio is very strong at the lower end of the range with 92.90%. If we normalize that to the middle of the range, that would bring us to the 1290 million. And then we see actually coming through the growth of the business, the fact that we see the buyouts that we have executed and won in H2 that we now can recognize for the full year. Some re-risking that we have done on those buyouts, but also indeed small benefits, for example, on HTC. that that is contributing to a higher level of capital generation, but there are also some small minuses in it. For example, the lower release of capital on the partial internal model, but also the accelerations of investments that we are doing in technology and AI. So that are small minuses. If you more look closely to the items that you, and that brings us to the north of the 1.35 billion euro, David. If you then look more to the elements that you asked, so how is the Bofei Mai contributing to that? Actually, we expect to close Bofei Mai in just in the beginning of the second half of 2026, that you then get a book that is, well, where the profitability on the standalone basis is close, will be close to zero. And we really need to realize the synergies to make it profitable and to bring it to the combined ratio levels that we have for our own portfolio. So that's why we don't expect a lot of contribution of no contribution actually from Bofemi in 2026. On HTC, that will contribute a couple of millions, but please note we were already for the first nine months 40% owner of HTC. And that was also already a portion of profitability that was there. So it is only the remaining 55%. that you will see for nine months additional compared to what we have seen in 2025. So that's why only a couple of million. So the real benefit comes from the synergies, the growth of the business, the fact that we recognize the buyouts for the full year, and these are small pluses in the total bridge. Hopefully that helps in the explanation. And then on the question on the longevity deal. So what we have not done until now is take any longevity reinsurance into account in when we price a buyout. So for example, the buyout that we won, the death of dentists where we have now have executed the longevity reinsurance deal as actually an additional improvement of the IRR with a couple of percentage points which is not something that we take into account in poor hands when we actually price those deals because you never know for sure whether you get the same quotes and we always want to be conservative on this one and not already take into account without having a hard quote actually on what you can achieve with reissues.

Thank you.

Thank you. We will now take the next question. From the line of Andrew Baker from Goldman Sachs, please go ahead.

Great. Thank you for taking my questions. First one, just on the Solvency II review, are you able just to give us a sense of the OCC impact once implemented? And then just to clarify, the 10 percentage points that you show on the slide, it is before or after the four points. So should we be thinking 10 or should we be thinking six based on the guidance today? And then secondly, On the unit link settlement, I think at the time you had $90 million on the balance sheet set aside for individuals that weren't represented by the foundations. Is this amount still on the balance sheet? And if so, could you look to release this at some point and how do you think about timing around that? Thank you.

Yes, thanks, Andrew. So the impact on the level of capital delineation, and please be with me that it's a high level, but when we calculate it today, it will be around 10 to 15 million on the OCC. That's the assumption that we are having today. The solvency uplift is, so the 10% is gross of the elimination of the DA, so the net amount is, let's say, around 6%. maybe a 1% high, but around that percentage point. So the net amount is six, but if you eliminate the DA earlier, then you will see the benefit of the AOPA 2020 review to be around 10%.

And then on your second question, the provisioning on unit linked, and indeed we had still roughly 90 million additionally on the balance sheet. The current stand is that it is around 50 million that will remain on the balance sheet at the closing of 2025, because we're still paying out the people that weren't connected to one of the foundations. So we expect it will be at least enough, the 50 million. And even when there will be a remaining part, then it probably will be released somewhere in the second half or even at the beginning of next year. But we haven't put a number yet on that. But the key message is it will be at least enough.

Very helpful. Thank you.

Thank you. We will now take the next question. from the line of Benoit Petrard from Kepfer Chevrolet. Please go ahead.

Yes, good morning, and thank you, Jos. I think you leave the company in very good shape. Actually, my first question will be on the CMD. Jos, if you will kind of have an opportunity to advise the new management team on the key topics you want to see on the agenda, could you maybe walk through the main topics the main things you would like to see on the slides in December. Obviously, just as a kind of advisory work and just not being too serious on that. And then the second question is on the capital. You have a very strong stock of capital. Now you have the EU power review coming in, probably more longevity deals. So you are well above the 175%. So how should we think about the utilization of excess capital going forward? Or do you stand currently on the possibility to get more top-ups on share buyback? How open are you for that? Or are you more willing at this stage to keep excess capital for potentially a larger deal in life? And that's just the last question will be on longevity reinsurance. I think you mentioned that you are also open to do more deals. what type of timing and impact on solvency to ratio can we expect? Thank you.

Thanks, Benoit. Your first question is a nice one, and I may become the advisor of Ewout and Ingrid after I've stepped down, but I'm not yet in that position. But what I should expect on a capital markets day like ASR is doing is – Further clarity on strategic opportunities we do see going forward. And I already, in answering the question of Cor, I gave already some insight what I should expect that will be part of the messaging by then. I think ASR has done a lot in terms of investing in AI and is still investing in AI. and knowing that Ingrid is very well aware, together with the team, of the impact of AI, I would expect that there will be an important part on that. Further, capital management will remain important. I think the philosophy value over volume will not change after I've left, so that will be an important part. But in general, I think it will be about how to continue the successful story of ASR going forward, adopting the new reality in the world, the reality on AI, but also the geopolitical reality. So that would be, for now, my advice and further advice is I will whisper in their ears and I will leave it to them whether they will do something with it. On your second question, to be serious again, I think the key message is we have a very strong capital position and our key preference is to deploy capital in a way that will sustain the growth of ASR going forward, either through organic growth or through inorganic growth. Having said that, we will combine that with returning a fair share of the OCC that we have generated. And over 2025, we will return roughly 75% of the OCC generated and 25% is spent on inorganic growth like the pension buyouts. Even when we can't deploy that capital in a rational way, We're fully aware and I don't expect that to change after I've left. We're fully aware of the fact that we then may have to return more capital to shareholders. That's why we made a clear statement in our presentation, even when Aegon will decide to sell down further in this year, we're willing to fast forward the 225 million that is now announced for the next year, we're willing to fast it forward to this year. And with that, I think there is significant proof that ASR never has been a capital hoarder and never will be a capital hoarder. And on longevity, I hand over to you, Ewa.

Yes, thanks. So it was very helpful to do that smaller longevity reinsurance deal on the buyouts. What we have seen is the cost of capital was just above 0%, which makes it from a cost of capital very attractive. So when we look to our back book, what we see is actually that historically Aegon almost did 45% of their pension liabilities transferred via longevity reinsurance. And Asia roughly had no longevity reinsurance deals, but one-third of the book is natural hedged with mortality. So there is a kind of remaining book to do longevity reinsurance for. When we look to the remaining liabilities and the size of that, it's roughly 10 billion, how we look at it today that we can deploy in the short term. But we also see that the market favors deals around 3 to 5 billion. And 5 billion, when we take into account the same cost of capital that we have seen in that deal on the buyout, then it will bring roughly two to three solstice points at group level. And that's mostly different by a lower risk margin because the required capital release is limited because of diversification that you already see at the legal entity level. But especially at group level, you see also additional diversification benefits. So let's say half of the that we can see in the short term, the $10 billion, half of that is $5 billion, that would bring, with the current pricing, roughly two to three solvency points.

You're very clear. Thank you very much.

Thank you. We will now take the next question from the line of Michael Hutner from Berenberg. Please go ahead.

Fantastic. Thank you so much. Just to the, firstly, on disability, can you talk a little bit about what you've done, the 98% in the second half, how much kind of that is kind of prudential provision, how much is actually needed, and how confident you are that it's not a lingering problem. In other words, more needs to be done or the numbers could get a little bit worse. And then the second is you spoke about AI more of a topic for December, but you've also said that there's also quite a bit of AI already in your plans for kind of spending or investment in 2026 in the OCC. So I just wondered if you could give us a feel for that. And then the last one, I'm sorry, Josh, but what you've done is quite a lot in a very short space of time. How confident are we that, I mean, if I were working for you, and I'm glad I'm not because I'd never get to sleep, that the pace doesn't slow down when you leave? Thanks.

Well, a lot of questions, so thanks for that, Michael. Let me start on disability. We already during the first half were able to take some provisioning that was by then not that visible because we also had some offsetting items and the provisioning taken in the first half was around 50 million. In the second half we have provisioned another 50 million. combined with significant increase of premiums we already increased last year the premiums but we did a significant increase in the in the for the first of jan we probably will lose some customers due to that but but the customers we probably are going to lose our customers we are not regretting that we will lose them because they're they're not bringing any profitability So from that perspective, based on everything we know today, we think the combination of the provisioning we have done and the significant increase, that should do the trick. And that's why I said that we expect that there will be further, that the combined ratio in disability will improve further going forward. It decreased three percentage points in this year, but due to the provisioning and the premium increases, we are confident that we have stopped that. And of course, we don't have a glass ball. We can't look into the future. On AI, as said, my advice to Ewart and Ingrid is to spend some time on it during the CMD. So I don't feel free to put any numbers on that now. Yes, we are already investing. We're using in almost every business area of ASR. We're already using AR. For example, in our bodily injury area, we've implemented an AR AI model, which is very helpful to the claims handlers to speed up the incoming incoming letters on cases that are already running for 10 or 20 or even 30 years so we do see significant benefit from that but also in our health area the fact that we were able to keep the cost low in the health area is predominantly due to AI but we've agreed with each other that that will be a topic on the capital markets day and it's not up to me to disclose that already now but it will be Amazing, Michael, as you can expect. And then to your last question, I already said that I strongly believe a successful company is a company with teamwork. If you look at the success of the Dutch skating team on the Olympics, it's due to teamwork. And that's how I've always... run the company. Yes, I'm the one who's doing the talking towards the investment community together with AWOD. But at the end of the day, it's based on a group of people that are willing to work very hard. And you're right, you better shouldn't work for us if you are a bit – I'm not going to say that – if you need more sleep than average. So having said that, I'm very confident that there will be no change in the pace and knowing that Ingrid is much younger than I am, she may push the button even harder and speed up it a little bit. But we'll have to see that. Fantastic. Thank you.

Thank you. We will now take the next question. From the line of Thomas Bateman from Mediabanca, please go ahead.

Hi, good morning all. Thanks for the good results and congratulations on a fantastic tenureship, Jos. Just on the CSN, I think we've had some positive experience there and just again, can you just explain maybe what those are and how recurring this might be going forwards? And the second question is just on competition in P&C. I heard your comments talking about international players in the mandated broker segment. I guess I was just interested, because that sounds similar to what you told us before, but I was just wondering if that is a change if competition has increased. Is that something that worries you, or is it a bit more of the same, and you still maintain your strong market position there?

Let me start with the second one and then I'll hand over to Ewout. Well, it is the same message that we gave before. It hasn't increased, but it is still there. And my personal expectation is it will be there for the next 12 months. It will not... significantly harm our market position, but it might limit to be at the upper end of the growth ratio that we projected. So we're now around three in P&C, we were at 3.8 and we expect that also 2026, we will deliver at least the 3% growth over the combined entities of disability and P&C. So the worry is it is there, it will stay there, and it creates a bit more price competition, but we've said to each other we will remain to the value over volume strategy. And looking back a bit further than over the last couple of years, we've seen it, I've seen it earlier, also in the 90s we've seen it, and between 2002 and 2010 it was also there. And they come and go. So I expect that in a couple of years or within a couple of years, some of those players will discover that the promises made by mandated brokers, that it will be very profitable if they do the underwriting, that they will have to face some disappointment there and that they will become more rational.

Then on the CSM, indeed, we have seen a positive CSM development in both live and in non-live. On the live side, a couple of elements that played a role. One is the capitalization of the cost synergies. So as you know, we have achieved the synergies that we have integrated Aegon and with that full confidence that we achieved the synergies. In life, you will not see that running through the OCC. or through the business capital generation, but what it does is actually it increases your future profitability, so it lowers your best estimate liabilities, and with that increases the CSM and the own funds under SOL C2. So that is one element that is clearly not something that is recurring. The second element that plays a role is the inclusion of the partial internal model. So the partial internal model results in a lower required capsule. The lower required capsule results in a lower risk margin, but the lower required capsule also is related to the risk adjustment under IFRS. and it also results in a lower risk adjustment and with that a higher future profitability, so a higher CSM. Also that one is not recurring. If you look more to the recurring items, so what we see is on average five to 6% is more or less, released every year due to the runoff of the book. And we see half of that being taken out by accretion of the CSM, but also by the new business that we are making. So then you are more, let's say, on average, 2.5% net amount in a normal basis without special circumstances in a release of the CSM that you will see.

Okay, thank you very much.

Thank you. We will now take the next question from the line of Farouk Hanif from JP Morgan. Please go ahead.

Hi, everybody. Thank you very much. My first question was actually on the top line in P&C. So, you know, you've clearly benefited from pricing in 2025. And obviously, you're doing more. But even with that, you're at the lower end. I mean, is this... Is this something that we may expect going forward with the competitive environment? And unless that changes, we might continue to be at the lower end of top line growth in the non-life business generally. So that's question one. And then question two is on the life investment margin in the IFRS profit. I mean, that was a very pleasing jump. Is that? and what's left in the re-risking program that could help that going forward. Thank you very much.

The live investment margin question will be taken up by Ewout. As said, Farouk, so thanks for your question. Yes, we do see a competitive environment. But at the same time, we still see room, despite the competitive environment, to increase premiums, especially in motor. We already decided that we will increase premiums in motor mid-year. And depending on the category, that will be somewhere between 5% and 7%, but in some cases, maybe even towards 10%. So we feel free to increase motor premiums going forward. And at the same time, we are confident that we will be able to grow the top line in P&C with at least a 3% at this moment. So if I look into the multi-year plans of the P&C team, there is confidence that we will be able, despite all the market circumstances, to grow the business organically on a year on year basis. So with that, I think I've answered your question and I hand over to Ewout.

Yeah, so in detail, so what we, I think when we look to the investment margin in life, a strong jump that was driven by actually all the elements that we have mentioned, for example, the growth in the investment margin in the level of capital generation. also apply for the operating investment and finance results under IFRS. So I think this is the basis and the starting point, the starting base for 2026 as well. We always run, every year we run a strategic asset allocation study to look, can we further optimize the portfolio? It will not be hugely risking that we foresee for 2026, but we do see some optimization opportunities And that is mostly related to actually moving a bit out of the credits, because that were very tight at the beginning of the year. Maybe move a bit out of certain coffee bonds, which are also tightening again after steepening spreads, increasing spreads, widening spreads in 2025. And we expect to invest a bit more on the illiquid side, for example, in CLOs, which has been reduced in our balance sheet quite significantly during 2025. So we see room to do a bit more there and maybe also some more illiquid credits because we believe we are a bit underweighted there today.

Thank you very much. Thank you.

Thank you. We will now take the next question. from the line of Ian Pierce from BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.

Hi. Morning, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. Just a couple of quick ones. Firstly, just on the update on the cash at holding target, can you give us a little bit more detail on the RTF and how that benefits and what the new cash at holding target is and if there's sort of now quite a bit of excess cash at the holding company? And the second one is just on the longevity reinsurance topic again. So you said $10 billion is available to reinsure and indicated as a pretty low cost of capital. I know you're saying the market's only supporting those smaller deals, but is the expectation that you would look to do the full $10 billion over time? And also, you know, with future buyouts, will you be expecting to look to do longevity reinsurance on those deals as well, given the sort of cost of capital that you're attributing to those opportunities?

Thank you. Hey Wout, I think you're the master of cash at the holding.

Master of every euro that we have in the company. So the holding cash at the full year is 956 million. So it's an increase compared to what we have seen in the full year 2024. And actually the policy on holding cash did not, did not change at all, meaning that we always keep cash at holdco level to cover the coupon payments, to cover the holding expenses that we are having and the last year dividend actually. So that is the policy that we are having and that did not change. But what we also have witnessed is that we have, of course, also for liquidity reasons, quite some facilities in place which you pay an amount for but actually do not use. And one is the unconditional revolving credit facility that we are having. So, and knowing that actually the most, the higher yields, that you get higher yields on investments when the cash is at the legal entity level instead of at the holdco level, he said, okay, it might be wise to at least capture a small portion of that as a kind of part of the holdco cash policy so that you don't have to remit too much and then have cash at the holdco that actually is not doing anything for you or for our shareholder community. And that's actually what we have changed and also communicates already by H1. I think the portion that we now include is almost 230 billion, so a million, 230 million of the credit facility that we actually have kind of earmarked as part of the holding cash. Thank you. And then there's a bit of noise, Ian. And then on the size of longevity issues that we can do in detail. So 10 billion is what we see as the potential today. I mean, we have more longevity issues in our portfolio, but you don't have all the data available for those books. So we are also working on further improving with 10 billion is what we see for the short term. What we see in the market indeed is that the most favorable deals can be done around three to 5 billion. And what we will do is that we will further investigate where the prices are still very attractive. And if that's the case, then we will definitely consider, not because we need the capital, so we will not do any longevity deal because we need the capital, we will only do this because of the fact that cost of capital is on one hand attractive, and on the other hand, we also can see this as good risk management, because when you look to the life balance sheet, the biggest insurance risk that you have on the life balance sheet, by end of the day, is longevity risk. So it's also part of good risk management, and that's how we will evaluate it case by case starting with the first investigation in 2026 so we expect to conclude that in the second half of the year and if it turns out that it is attractive we might do the deal if not we will not do the deal and if we do the deal we will definitely look into it whether it makes sense to do another deal but we will take it when we get there Thank you

Thank you. We will now take the next question. From the line of Nasib Ahmed from UBS, please go ahead. Nasib Ahmed, please go ahead. We will now take the next question from the line of Michael Hutner from . Please go ahead.

Thank you so much. Just two baseball follow-ups. The CSM benefit, you said, was about $30 million. I expected more than $2.8 billion, but maybe I'm completely wrong. I just wondered if you could remind us of the metrics here. And then the other one is I think one of your peers mentioned low reinsurance costs as a benefit, and you haven't. So I just wondered maybe you can give us an update here. Thank you.

Thank you. On the first one, I hand over to Ewout, and he probably will also take the second one.

So on the buyout, so in detail, so 15 million additional CCM, we were actually very positive with the fact that you already at day one see that those contracts are profitable, Michael. I think we also have seen competitors, one competitor that actually wrote a buyout, that had a bit negative actually as a result of the buyout. We see that already at day one it contributes positive to future profitability and that's not even taking into account all the excess return that we can make on those buyouts because those will flow through the operating and investment finance result and that should also be taken into account. That's the two things where you see back. On one hand, the CSM, which will be released over time. But on the other hand, you will also see an increase of the operating investment and finance result. And together, that makes that you actually see that the return over time will be on an IRR basis. That is, by the way, based on the Solstice calculation. But on an IRR basis, it will be over 12%. Hopefully, that clears it up. Yes, indeed. Cool. Then on the reinsurance program, indeed we see that the reinsurance market has been softening again also for the year 2026 compared to last year. We have seen that, you know, we have seen attractive prices which offers us the opportunity to have a somewhat bigger CAD program to keep retention levels at the same level and still pay even more or less the same prices. So when you more purely look from a risk coverage perspective, prices have come down. In total, we see kind of that we will pay the same to reinsurance in non-life as we have done over the year 2025.

But your retention is coming down?

No, the retention is at the same level, but the CAT program is actually at a higher level. So we have increased the CAT program, and we were able to increase the CAT program without paying any euro more. Thank you.

Thank you. We have time for one more question. Investor Relations Team will contact all the further participants with any answers. Our last question comes from the line of Naseeb Ahmed from UBS. Please go ahead.

Hi, Monique. Can you, hopefully you can hear me now. First question on just the 75-25% split of the OCC. If I take the 1.35 guidance, take 75% of that, you get more than a billion. 750 is probably the dividends. We're already at more than 250 million of potential buybacks on Euro 225. Just a question on why not upgrade that. I think last year you were at 75 because you did 100 million special with the participation from Agon sell-down. So is that the way we should think about this year as well? I think you make the comment around participating again in a potential sell-down. And then on the 25%, which is around 350, I think you spent 185 million on Bovemi, and that leaves 165 million for, I guess, DB pensions. Is that correct? the main use of that remaining 165. And then just quickly on the 600 million fungible capital that you released from the PIM, that's on a group solvency basis, but the real cash is in the entities where you got 30 points of solvency. So shouldn't that 600 million be actually a little bit, well, quite a lot larger than what you're getting at the group level? Thank you.

Maybe you can take the second part of the question on the 600 million. I will comment on the first one.

The second part of the 600 million, so the second question. The second, yeah. On the 600 million, so in detail, so when you calculate that at the group level, you come to a level of 600 million, but the good thing is when you calculate this at the legal entity level, you really come more or less at the same point. So it's just over 30% of Sol-C upside. If you multiply the required capital by 1.6%, six times, sorry, that's actually how we are doing this, then you will land also at a fungible capital of around 600 million Nasib. So that's really in the same area. That's also the way we are actually looking at principal capital. So we look at principal capital at the legal entity level because that determines your remittance capacity and not the source at group level. So that's on that question.

And on your question on the 7525, The way we've always approached this is that it was our intention to return, let's say, 70 to 75% of the OCC in terms of dividend and potential buybacks. So that is what we've done over the last year. So I recognize the numbers as you have calculated them, and also for this year, At least mentally, we're prepared to do the same. 70% to 75% of OCC will be returned. And that's why we've also said that if and when Aegon will decide to further sell down, that we're willing to fast forward the 225 million of OCC. of buyback that we have projected for the next year. So consider it not as a hard number, 75%, but consider it as a rule of thumb that we always want to be between the 70% and 75%. And Ewart wants to add on that.

Yeah, then for the year 2026, so indeed you see, of course, we already have the deployment opportunity of Bofema, which we are very happy with. When you purely look to the level of capital generation and the remaining kind of capital that you don't have deployed, you come to the number that you mentioned. But as you can see, we also have a strong balance sheet, so we would be more than happy to deploy over the level of capital that we have generated. That's the good thing about a strong Solvency is that it provides you the flexibility to be entrepreneurial. So we would be very happy, whether it's M&A or buyouts, to do more.

Perfect. Thank you very much. That's very clear.

Thank you. I would like to turn the conference back to Eos Petters for closing remarks.

Thank you very much, operator, and thank you, all of you, for joining us. um from my side i enjoyed every minute of it not only today but also the the 19 earlier conversations we had due to all the uh the reporting we did on half year and and full year i was always inspired by your views and your questions and and what i think is it's great that we together created an atmosphere also in those calls that we could seriously talk about the execution of our strategy and the successes we have brought, but that we always could do it with a smile on our face and that it was accepted by the investment community. I'm a big fan of Warren Buffett. And Warren Buffett once said, only when the tide goes out, you discover who's been swimming naked. And I think if I look at ASR and the last 10 years since we were a listed company again, we've seen different phases. We've seen COVID. We've seen volatile markets. But one thing was clear. ASR was always swimming fully dressed. And with that, I think a second saying of Warren Buffett is price is what you pay and value is what you get. And I think that's what we have delivered together on ASR. Thank you for joining us and see you all tomorrow evening in London.

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.