Autotrader Group Plc

Good morning everyone and welcome to Autotrader's results for the six months ending 30th of September 2023. As usual I'm joined by our COO Catherine and our CFO Jamie. Our performance in the first half demonstrates the strength of our business through different economic cycles, the strong partnership we have developed with our customers and a resilient used car market. Vehicle demand remains robust and supply will continue to be impacted by low new car sales over the past few years. We've also made good progress on our key strategic initiatives across our marketplace, platform and digital retailing, providing a long runway for future profitable growth. For this reason, we have confidence in both the second half of the financial year and the years to come, particularly as many of the structural changes in the automotive industry, be that electric vehicles, agency models or direct sales, all present opportunities to extend our brand technology data and buying experience to help new and existing customers and car buyers. Let's move now to our strategic overview. Our core auto trader business grew revenue 9%, operating profit 10% and achieved operating profit margins above 70%. Revenue growth was higher at a group level and group operating profit also grew 10%. Our core retailer revenue line continues to perform well Average revenue per retailer, or ARPA, grew 12%. And while headline retailer forecourts fell, when adjusted for the web zone disposal, they actually grew 1% to record levels. ARPA growth was underpinned by both our April 2023 pricing and product event and continued uptake of our prominence products. Audience levels have continued to grow and are now at record levels that are significantly higher than pre-pandemic levels. We're scaling up and optimising our deal builder products. We now have 10 times more retailers on deal builder than we had at the end of March this year and have completed 10 times as many deals in this six-month period as we did in the whole of last year. The structural changes in the new car market present an opportunity to the business. While we're not yet realising meaningful revenue growth, there are signs that we're on the right path with the combination of advertising products for manufacturers, our existing new car product for retailers, and the integration of Autorama into the Autotrader platform. Now turning to the financial headlines. Group revenue increased by 12%, with Autotrader revenue increasing by 9%. The difference is due to Autorama, which we own for just over three months of the comparable period in financial year 23. Both Group and Autotrader operating profit increased by 10%. Autorama made an operating loss of 5.6 million pounds and non-cash central costs relating to the acquisition were 14.7 million pounds. Group operating profit margin was 59% and Autotrader's operating margin was 71%. Basic EPS was up 4%, which is lower than operating profit growth because of a higher effective tax rate due to the increase in UK corporation tax in April 2023 and the non-deductibility of some of the previously mentioned central costs. Cash generated from operations was up 12%. We returned £117.1 million of cash to shareholders through £51.3 million in dividends and £65.8 million in share buybacks. Today, we're also declaring an interim dividend of 3.2 pence per share. We'd like to flag that while the UK's digital services tax was designed for multinational digital businesses, it is beginning to come into view for auto trader. At present, we believe any impact is likely to be short-lived and one-off in nature, but Jamie will cover this more shortly. Now to our operational headlines. Our audience position is as strong as it has ever been. Gross platform visits were up 14% to 77 million per month. Cross-platform minutes were up 11% to 555 million minutes. And we continued to account for over 75% of time spent across our main competitor set. As previously mentioned, retailer forecourts decreased 3% to 13,710. However, underlying retailers were up 1%. And we now have over 900 more UK retailers working with us than before the pandemic. ARPA was up by 12% to £2,683, driven by both price and product, offset by a slight decline in the stock lever. New and used livestock were broadly flat, although new car stock declined towards the end of the half as we transitioned from an all-you-can-eat model to a slot-based charging model. This aligns more closely with our used car model. It improves the quality of new car stock on the platform and had no negative impact on new car revenue. The average number of full-time equivalent employees increased to 1,220 during the period. Finally, we have our cultural KPIs, which reflect our focus on creating a unique and great place to work so we can attract, develop and retain the very best people. To that end, to build on our strong ownership culture and to ensure every person at AutoTrader is aligned with and rewarded for creating a more valuable AutoTrader, we have introduced a new all-employee share scheme. The scheme rewards employees with an additional 10% of their salary in shares each year which vests over a three-year period. We believe we can accommodate this scheme within our long-term Autotrader margin goal of above 70%. 92% of our employees are proud to work at Autotrader, and our Glassdoor rating is 4.6 stars out of 5. We believe we have the right initiatives in place and are making progress, although most KPIs are relatively flat during this period. However, we have made good progress since first reporting these. We're aiming to be net zero across our value chain by 2040 and have amended our base year to incorporate the acquisition of Autorama. Our carbon emissions for the six-month period are across scopes one, two, and three, with 37.3 thousand tonnes. I'll now hand you over to Jamie to talk through the financials in more detail.

Thanks, Nathan, and good morning, everyone. We'll start by looking at the core auto trader financials. Total auto trader revenue increased 9% to $259.4 million. Trade revenue also increased 9%. with the largest component of this being retailer revenue, which grew by 8%. The year-on-year increase was largely a result of retailers continuing to see value in advertising on our marketplace and taking additional products. Average revenue per retailer increased by 12% to £2,683 per month, with more detail given on the following slide. The average number of retailer forecourts advertising on our platform decreased by 3% to 13,710. But after accounting for the disposal of webzones, UK retailers increased 1% year on year. Also within trade, we've seen an increase in home trader pay-as-you-go listings and growth in other trade revenue. Consumer services revenue increased by 7%. Within this, private revenue, which is largely generated from individual sellers who pay to advertise their vehicle on the AutoTrader marketplace, increased by 11%, and motoring services revenue increased 2%. Revenue from manufacturing agency customers increased 21%, which was largely from manufacturers using our advertising products to promote their new cars available for sale on AutoTrader. Now on to ARPA, live car stock, and retailers. The chart on the left shows the components that contribute to the movement in ARPA compared to the prior year. As you can see, the first half's ARPA growth was driven by both the price and product levers, with the stock lever seeing a small decline. It's worth noting that the disposal of web zones where retailers were lower yielding has inflated ARPA in the first half by three to four percentage points. This impact will be less at the full year, with the disposal having taken place in mid-October 2022. We delivered our annual pricing and product event for all customers on the 1st of April 2023, which included additional products and a price increase, which contributed growth of £146 per total offer through the price lever. Product growth contributed £165, with just over half of this growth coming from the second module of AutoTrader Connect, which was included in our advertising packages in April 2023. The remaining product lever growth was largely due to an increase in retailers using our prominence products, most notably our higher level enhanced super and ultra packages, where penetration increased to 37% of retailer stock by September 2023. Turning then to stock, you'll see on the chart on the right-hand side that the number of live cars advertised on AutoTrader was broadly flat, which was the case for both new and used car segments. The number of live used cars comes from retailers, home traders, and private listings, but only retail listings, which saw a small year-on-year decline, impact ARPA. Total auto trader costs increased 8% to $75.8 million. People costs increased by 7%. This increase was partially driven by an increase in the average number of full-time equivalent employees to 1,032 and an increase in underlying salary costs. Marketing spend increased by 8%. Other costs, which include data services, property-related costs, and other overheads, increased by 13%. and depreciation and amortization decreased by 15%. As a reminder, our low levels of capex and depreciation are not a reflection of low levels of investment in our business. In addition to our investment in cloud-based services, we have over 350 people in products and technology who are continuously improving our platforms and developing new products for consumers and retailers, the costs for which are taken in full through our income statements. Operating profit increased by 10% to $184.9 million, and core auto trader operating profit margins remained flat at 71%. Our share of profit generated by dealer auction, the group's joint venture, increased 18% to $1.3 million. Having covered the auto trader part of the business, we'll now move on to the Autorama results. The acquisition completed on the 22nd of June 2022, and so the prior year comparator for revenue costs and operating losses represents just over three months. Here we've also included the second half of last year as a comparator, which shows a like-for-like six-month period. Autorama revenue for the first six months of this financial year was $21.1 million, with vehicle and accessory sales contributing $14 million and commission and ancillary revenue contributing $7.1 million. The Autorama business delivered 565 vehicles, which were temporarily taken on balance sheet in the period, representing just over 10% of the total vehicles delivered. The cost of these vehicles was taken through cost of goods sold, with the corresponding revenue in vehicle and accessory sales, which largely offset one another. On the cost side, we saw people costs of 6.7 million, relating to the 188 FTEs employed on average through the period. Marketing was 2.6 million, and other costs was 2.1 million. There was a 1.3 million of depreciation amortization, which was largely for developed software. Total deliveries amounted to 4,593 units, which comprised of over 1,500 cars, over 2,500 vans, and over 200 pickups. The van market has seen better levels of supply through the leasing channel compared to cars, although average commission levels were slightly lower year on year. This was due to lower volumes impacting tiered commission, which is calculated over a 12-month period. The Autorama segment made an operating loss of $5.6 million, which was some improvement on the second half of last year, mainly through cost savings brought about by the integration with the main auto trader business and platforms. Group central costs, which are non-cash items relating to the acquisition of Autorama, are expected to be $21 million for the full year. This is made up of $11.1 million of deferred consideration and $10 million of depreciation and amortization. The DNA is slightly higher than previously guided, as due to quicker integration with Autotrader, we are accelerating the amortization of the Vanorama brand. With total group revenue up 12%, group costs up 15%, and an 18% increase in our share of dealer auctions profit, we saw total group operating profit increase 10% to $164.6 million. Group operating profit margins were broadly flat at 59% and are expected to increase for the full year with no deferred consideration in the second half of this year. We continue to deliver strong cash flows consistently over time. As we grow, it's worth emphasizing the strong cash-generative nature of our business leaves us well-placed to return surplus cash to shareholders. Cash generated from operations was at $184.2 million for the six-month period. The statutory income statement outlines areas beyond our revenue and operating costs. Net finance costs increased to $1.8 million due to higher borrowing costs, Our net profit before tax was $162.8 million, 10% higher than last year, and in line with group operating profit growth. The group tax charge of $46 million was significantly higher than last year due to the UK corporation tax rate increasing to 25%. As Nathan mentioned earlier, the group is starting to fall within scope for the UK's digital services tax, with revenue now exceeding $500 million. There are certain revenue streams which we believe are exempt, which brings us below the threshold for financial year 2024. However, as we move into financial year 2025, we anticipate our in-scope revenue could exceed 500 million, in which case the tax would be incurred. DST is calculated as 2% of all in-scope revenue and is taken as an operating expense. The government gave an update in July where they updated their intended timeline to implement pillar one of a two-pillar global tax solution in calendar year 2025. At this point, DFT would be replaced by a tax with significantly higher qualifying thresholds, currently expected to be 20 billion of revenue, and at that point, the group would therefore cease to pay this tax. If this expected timeline is matched, this cost would be a one-off in financial year 2025. Basic EPS increased by 4%, which was slightly higher than the growth in net income due to fewer shares in issue following our share buyback program. Finally, the directors are recommending an interim dividend of 3.2 pence per share. Now to briefly review net bank debt and capital policy. At the end of September 2023, the group had drawn $52 million of its syndicated revolving credit facility and held cash and cash equivalents of $24.7 million. During the period, cash generated from operations was largely used to pay tax or return to shareholders through a combination of dividends and share buybacks. A total of 10.4 million shares were purchased for a consideration of $65.8 million before transaction costs of $0.3 million And a further $51.3 million was paid in dividends, giving a total of $117.1 million of cash returned to shareholders. The group's long-term capital allocation policy remains unchanged. That concludes the financials. I'll now hand over to Catherine to talk you through the market dynamics and progress against our strategic priorities.

Thank you, Jamie, and good morning, everyone. Moving on to slide 15 and looking at both new car registrations and used car transactions, it is worth looking at these in turn and separately, as the demand and supply dynamics in each have been slightly different over the past six months. From a new car perspective, as can be seen from the chart on the left, supply has continued to improve and registrations increased 21% year on year. It's worth noting, though, we are still below the level seen pre-pandemic and significantly lower than the exceptional highs of 2017. Private demand has softened slightly as we've moved through the last number of months. We have seen an increasing number of cars being pushed into the fleet channel, where corporates have seen very little volume over the past three years and are replacing what has become a much older fleet. Over the past couple of months, We have seen an increase in discounts on new cars and attractive finance offers to stimulate consumer demand, in particular on electric vehicles, where brands are investing significantly to achieve the government mandated ZEB targets. We are not yet seeing many cars pushed into other discount channels. We have also seen an increase in used car transaction volumes with growth of 5% year on year. Consumer engagement on AutoTrader has been relatively strong over the reported period, and cars have sold slightly faster than both the prior year and pre-pandemic levels. This speed of sales supports transaction volumes, but less so our stock-based business model, with retailers continuing to hold less stocks than in 2019. We expect that the greater supply of new cars will gradually feed into stronger used car volumes. particularly younger cars with a significant gap in under three-year-old cars due to recent low new car registration volumes. Over the past six months, our audience position has strengthened as both the volume and engagement of buyers has increased. Car buyers continue to prioritise the discovery and purchase of their next vehicle over spend in other retail categories. the number of cross-platform visits increased 14% year-on-year to reach a record number of 77 million visits per month. Engagement, which we measure as cross-platform minutes, also increased to 555 million minutes on average per month, an increase of 11% on the prior year. We continue to have the UK's largest and most engaged audience for new and used vehicles, with our share of total minutes amongst our main competitor sets as measured by Comscore, remaining at over 75%. The chart on the right shows the total minutes spent across an expanded set of competitors, retailers, and manufacturers. On average, over the year, Comscore estimates that consumers spent 10 times more minutes on AutoTrader than our nearest competitor, the combination of Gumtree, Motors, and eBay, and 26 times that of CarGurus and Pistonheads combined. Our app has now been downloaded over 18 million times, and around half of our visits are generated through our app. As we progress towards our digital retailing goals, we plan to make more use of more of the native features in our app to support these products. Outside of our competitors, we also compare our size of audience to that of retailers that are large enough to be tracked by Comscore and all manufacturer sites. We continue to maintain a significant lead against both, with over 35 times more minutes than manufacturers and over 42 times than the reseller group. On to slide 17, and used car pricing. We continue to publish a monthly price index of cars advertised by retailers on AutoTrader, the results of which are shown in this chart. The dark blue line on the chart shows the average price of a used vehicle advertised since April 2014. As can be seen in the chart, prices appreciated dramatically in the second half of 2021, our financial year 2022, but have at a total market level been relatively stable over the past 18 months. The average used car price over the past six months has been £17,800, a 2% like-for-like growth in prices over the prior year. September 2023 saw the first year-on-year decline in used car pricing for 41 months. However, there is significant variation by age of vehicle and by fuel type. The decline is predominantly being driven by alternatively fuelled vehicles, in particular electric cars. Part of this decline has come from price reductions on new electric cars but also from an influx of used car supply, with demand growing but not at the same pace as supply. We are seeing the same dynamic on new cars, where demand is also increasing but not keeping up with supply-side growth. Prices on cars over five years continue to grow, and petrol and diesel prices are more robust, which is insulating retailers from the more extreme impacts of some of these movements. Let's move on to consider progress against our strategic priorities, which were laid out at our investor day last year. As Nathan mentioned at the start, during the first half of this financial year, we have made good progress against each of our three strategic priorities. These priorities are closely interconnected, as our platform and our digital reselling capabilities build on the strengths of our marketplace, and deepen our relationships with customers and car buyers. Our marketplace continues to grow, and we have seen a record number of car buyers using AutoTrader over this six-month period. Retailers continue to take up more of our prominence products, with particularly strong growth in our higher-level packages, which had 5% more retailers stock on them versus the same period in the prior year. We executed a successful pricing and product event with the launch of our second AutoTrader Connect module, Valuations, in April 2023. As part of our platform strategy, this makes specification and condition adjusted valuations available within our retailer portal, where many of our retailers manage their inventory. This data can also be accessed through an API via our platform, enabling third parties and retailers to directly integrate valuations into the core systems they use to manage their businesses. We're also making progress in enabling more of the car buying journey online on AutoTrader, both through the growth of DealBuilder and the work we are doing to integrate Autorama. We'll cover a few brief highlights on both shortly. This slide shows the relationship between the AutoTrader platform and the services we've made available to retailers and partners. Our data and technology is increasingly important for our retailers and partners. We continue to make the platform that we have built and scaled to support AutoTrader available to third parties, and the level of engagement with these products and services continues to grow. We now have over 9,300 retailers benefiting from services powered by AutoTrader Connect across over 150 technology partners. The combination of our capability, platform, and unique data set presents further opportunities for future AI-related products beyond the valuations and metrics we have already launched. As part of the April 2022 event, we launched AutoTrader Connect Retail Essentials Module 1 on this chart, which enables real-time stock management and makes our vehicle taxonomy available to retailers through our own portal or via APIs. These APIs mean retailers and their technology partners can integrate the services into the systems they use to manage their businesses. As part of our April 2023 event, we launched Module 2 of AutoTrader Connect, Valuations. Our valuations benefit from over 800,000 observations we see on AutoTrader each day, and our machine learning technology continuously improves and optimizes the results. We've recently launched an additional new product, which is available in this second valuations module, along with the third module of AutoTrader Connect, which includes enhanced retail check functionality for all retailers. The first new product is Trended Valuations, which shows what a vehicle has been worth over the last six months, and how it is forecasted to change up to six months into the future. It's based on a combination of historic valuations, live market prices, seasonality, and age of the derivative within the lifecycle of its generation. We have also launched Enhanced Retail Check as the third module of AutoTrader Connect, which allows monitoring of shifts in supply and demand, a competitive analysis of price position against similar stock in the market, and estimates how fast a vehicle may sell when priced to market. Retail Check includes one of our key vehicle metrics, the retail rating. which is a unique machine learning-derived measure of how fast a car is likely to sell in a location if the vehicle is priced at the market value. This functionality will also be available for commercial vehicles, which means retailers will have the same level of confidence making retail decisions for vans as they do for cars. Combined, this powerful new layer of intelligence will help retailers confidently adapt and respond to changes in the markets. enabling them to make quicker and more profitable sourcing, advertising, and pricing decisions. The introduction of these new insights comes in response to retailer feedback on the increased complexity in the used car market, which is creating and making pricing strategies harder to manage. As part of the second valuations module of AutoTrader Connect, we launched a vehicle insight page in our retailer portal. which is shown on the slide, and has seen over 1.5 million page views each month since launch. These page surfaces are powerful data in an easy-to-use format at an individual vehicle level, helping retailers make faster, better decisions around pricing and advert quality. This has become a central hub in Portal and a key tool for retailers to drive the performance of vehicles on their forecourt. allowing them to assess data, including vehicle specification, advert quality, supply, demand, and pricing, all in one place. Over time, all of these features have been made available in our advertising packages, from market insight and individual vehicle retail rating, better performance analytics, our comprehensive vehicle taxonomy, and most recently, valuations. Moving on now to talk more about the outer ring of our strategy and the products which make up digital retailing. Our approach to digital retailing is to be car first and to enable any retailer, including manufacturers and leasing companies, to sell their vehicles online. With this goal in mind, we are initially offering two digital retailing consumer journeys on AutoTrader. A used car deal builder journey and an online retailing journey for consumers to lease a new car. Let's take them in turn. Firstly, we've made good progress on our DealBuilder product, shown on this slide. DealBuilder uses AutoTrader technology to enable car buyers to do more of their car buying online, including valuing their past exchange, applying for finance, and reserving the car. Importantly, all of these interactions can easily be carried out either online over the phone or on the retailer's forecourt. Currently these tools are available in our AutoTrader retailer portal and at small scale through early technology partners that have completed the integration work. Over time they will be made available via APIs at scale as part of our platform strategy, enabling these transactions to be picked up in retailers' existing sales systems and processes. In the second half of last year, we started a deal builder trial with 50 retailers. By the end of September 2023, we've increased the number of dealers live on the trial to 500, representing over 20,000 cars available at any one time, and we've completed over 2,000 deals in the period. In the second half of last year, we completed 200 deals in total and are now completing this many deals a week, demonstrating the progress we've made over a relatively short period of time. We are encouraged by the percentage of deals that converted into a sale and the positive feedback from both car buyers and retailers on the trial. We're seeing strong buyer engagement out of retail hours with over 50% of deals taking place outside of 9 a.m. to 6 p.m., Monday to Saturday, which supports the case that this should build sales capacity for our retailer partners. We will continue to scale the number of retailers on Deal Builder and iterate the product with the goal to monetize some retailers before the end of March 2024. Secondly, let's briefly consider our new vehicle leasing journey. As we've talked about before, there are significant structural changes impacting the new vehicle market in the UK. We are seeing growth in electric cars, new manufacturers entering the UK market, and a shift towards new digital distribution models from traditional manufacturers. These changes present us with an opportunity to play a more significant role in the new vehicle market. We've continued to integrate Autorama into the Autotrader platform and have enabled the full checkout of a leasing deal on Autotrader. By bringing Brace our scale and continued product improvements over time, we are confident that our new car leasing order take rate will grow whilst also driving efficiencies in consumer acquisition costs. I'll now hand back to Nathan to summarize our outlook for 2024.

Thank you, Katherine. Now to the outlook. We feel confident about the second half of the year as we have a healthy core business with a good runway for growth, which we continue to prioritize and focus on. In parallel, we're strengthening that by increasing engagement with our platform solutions and growing the number of customers benefiting from our digital retailing capabilities in deal builder and new car leasing. We expect another good year of growth in trade revenues driven by retailer revenue growth, with the price lever being between £110 and £120, the product lever slightly better than the £137 we achieved last year, and a flat stock lever. Retailer numbers are expected to decline modestly from the number we've reported in the first half. We expect the smaller areas of the auto trader business to grow mid-single to low double-digit growth and continue to look to reduce Autorama losses. Group central costs, which solely relate to the Autorama acquisition and are non-cash, are expected to be £21 million for the full year, which we have increased as we've shortened the useful expected life of the Vanorama brand due to the accelerated integration into AutoTrader. These changes combined with core AutoTrader margins of 71% will see group operating profit margins increase year on year. And finally, our capital policy remains unchanged. So that concludes the presentation and we'll now move to Q&A in the room. As I do say, most presentations, if you can start with your name and organisation, and try and keep it to our two or so questions. And Jamie is going to coordinate.

Yeah, if we talk down the front and then we'll work our way back.

Hi, Will Packer from . Two and a half questions. So firstly, interrelated, could you update us on your plans for the monetization of DealBuilder, how you're thinking of it as a transactional product or bundling it with the core. And as we look to the April 2024 pricing event, it looks like you've got some good stuff in the pipe related to the continued sort of bundling of retail accelerator in terms of the quantum of product growth and the relevance of deal builder. Could you just kind of give us some initial thoughts? And then I suppose my second question, is around, you know, on the road there's a couple of investor pushbacks I would love to get your view on for auto trader in the end market. In particular, the potential risk in the medium term of the agency model for dealer gross profitability and the potential headwind of the transition to electric vehicles and what it could mean for things like servicing revenue and the role of dealers there. They're two important potential negatives. How do you think about them in the context of auto trader?

Thanks. So yes, I mean, monetization is a deal builder. We said at the Invest Today last year that we want to get to 90 to 120 pounds per deal on average, and it will be combination of subscription and transaction fee probably skewed more towards the transaction fee and subscription as Katherine mentioned in the presentation we are going to monetize some customers it's likely to be you know the people that we had on at the end of last financial year before the end of this and I think I would see it very much as a stepping stone to that longer term guidance. You know, we're still relatively early working through the value story, but I think hopefully taken positively that we are monetizing some customers. And yeah, we're trying to get that mix between subscription and transaction fee. And yeah, long term, we want to get to that 90 to 120 and continue to scale up customers and be able to see that at scale. In terms of the The next pricing event and guidance into next year, I mean, I think, again, sounds very similar to the deal builder answer. We've only relatively recently just launched trend evaluations, enhanced retail check. This is not, you know, it's very consistent with how we've done things in prior years. We're working through the values, seeing the kind of use cases for customers. We'll work through that through the next six months. I think we're optimistic that they're a good set of products. But in terms of contribution, I think we'll be able to give a better sense when we get into May next year for full year results.

And then on the agency model, and you by all means fill in any blanks, I think the agency model thing and the electric vehicle things are really intertwined, but I'll tackle predominantly the agency model. So the first thing to say on agency is that not all manufacturers are saying they're going to go down that route. So you're starting with maybe half or so have some stated ambition to move towards agency, of which a handful are currently running on agency now. From a retailer's perspective, There are aspects to that that might feel negative. You are going to get less of a percentage than you would get if you were wholesaling the vehicle. The flip side of that is that you have no capital that you need to put into new cars, and the OEM is taking on a lot of responsibility that you used to have to do. You are no longer allowed to market new cars. The OEM has to do that. You won't have the same conditions around capex into the building, staff and the like. I think with agency, at the end of the day, OEMs need retail distribution. That's what they want. And they need their retailers to see some return. Otherwise, as we have seen, if retailers don't see the return, they'll just say farewell to the manufacturer and they'll go and focus on... on used cars. So I think there is some give and take in there that it's, you know, you could put out the bear case that agency means they make no money on new electric means they make 30% less on their after sales and it's all terrible, but they need to be viable for manufacturers to be able to distribute. So the industry does tend to work these things out. I think from auto traders perspective, what is unquestionable is that for any franchise retailer and franchise group, selling used cars well becomes so much more important to the returns you get on capital and your existence for years to come than it ever used to be the case. So actually, we might start to see franchise retailers moving as a group to be more like the way our independent retailers interact with them, because all they've got is used cars. The final piece does relate to the shift in responsibilities as a result of agencies. OEMs now become the ones that have the cars on their balance sheet, which used to be the problem that retailers had, and for a few years we helped retailers shift cars off their balance sheet and into retailers' hands. So some of the growth that you've seen in M&A, and when I suggested that we're seeing early signs of success, those OEMs, almost every OEM, I believe, that is looking at an agency agreement or has moved to an agency agreement, are starting to understand the things that you need to do to shift new cars, and that includes listing, you know, actual new cars on AutoTrader. Now, I wouldn't say... I definitely think it's an opportunity for us, but it's not the quickest thing to unlock, because we have spent, you know, since 1996, we have been kind of educating retailers and taking good photographs, describing vehicles well, and in some cases, In some way, we've gone back to needing to help OEMs get the same operations in place and the same quality in place because consumers don't really care who's selling the car. What they're looking at is the quality of the vehicle and how that compares to everything else. So we're going on a bit of a journey to helping improvement. But overall, that does feel like an opportunity for us.

I don't know if you wanted to add anything on electric or... I think the only thing to say is it's definitely not that agencies... necessarily the future so particularly for some of the new brands that are launching in the uk we've seen those new brands like tesla obviously have an owned direct retail network we've seen some of the big chinese oems actually go with the franchise model with some adopt agency so for the new entrants it's not the case that all electric vehicles are only going to be sold by agency there's a real mix actually across all the different brands of franchise, agency, owned retail network and I think we're going to end up with a new car market brand by brand that is a bit of a hybrid of many of these different models.

Good morning all, it's Andrew here from Barclays. My first one is about used car pricing and maybe following up on some of the slides you gave Catherine. But maybe help us understand what your base case is for, I guess, particularly combustion engine used car pricing in the next year. And I guess any scenarios in which it could start to decline quickly and how that might impact your dealer base were about to happen. And then the second one is, I guess, to follow up on the earlier discussion on the new car listing opportunity in manufacturing agency. Can you just give us a bit more in terms of how you're pricing those listings? How many listings there are now? How many OEMs are there? Just anything to try and help us kind of size that today and where it might go. Thank you.

Yeah, on youth car pricing, I don't have a crystal ball, but I can give you a point of view. What's What's complicated about the used car pricing dynamics at the moment is actually we are seeing huge differences by segment. So actually, if you look at the market overall, used car market is sort of as resilient as ever, despite some of the very negative macro headlines we're seeing. We're still seeing good growth in transaction volume. Year-over-year, we just saw the SMMP Q3 data. Q4, based on our proxy sales, is tracking pretty well. Speed of sales still good ahead of last year, ahead of pre-pandemic levels as well. And they are two of the kind of leading indicators that we would certainly look to as kind of overall health of the used car market. Pricing is the one area in the last couple of months where we have seen some weakness. We saw September, the first month, with a year-on-year negative movement. October was a bit worse in terms of negative movement, and we're hoping that for November to look a bit more like September from what we're seeing so far. Actually, the first couple of weeks of November were a bit more positive than we might have expected. That does mark that overall picture, very big movement by fuel type and by age type. So typically five years and older vehicles, whether they're typically petrol and diesel, ice segments, we're seeing prices still up pretty strongly. And in 10 years and over, vehicles are actually up about 9%, 10% still year on year. So that overall picture is then hiding strong growth in older age cohorts. Younger cohorts of vehicles are where we're seeing signs of weakness, in particular electric vehicles, as we talked about at the full year, results still tracking back about 20% year on year. And in that sub-five-year period, age cohort of vehicles, they make up about 5% of transactions. So they are a small but growing segment of that cohort of vehicles. So quite dramatic pricing movements in electric vehicles with supply significantly outstripping demand. We've seen that normalize in the last couple of months as that pricing reset has played through, demand's picked up again. And we're now beginning to see some softness in some of the younger petrol and diesel cohorts as new car supply returns through. So I think we're expecting a bit more of the same, like weakness in younger age cohorts, strength in the older age cohorts of vehicles. As long as we're seeing kind of low single digit movements, positive or negative, for most retailers actually, if you've got a reasonable stock mix, you can trade through those kind of movements because you're typically holding a car for six weeks or so on your balance sheet. What we look out for, and we saw in that electric vehicle segment earlier in the year, was like a big one-off movement, which for some retailers did have, meant they had to write down vehicles and take a bit of a hit. We haven't seen that, those big movements, to the same extent in other vehicle cohorts, more stability, and we're hoping for more stability in the coming months.

On the new car side, it's very much early days, I would say, in terms of addressable opportunity. It is a product for OEMs that are either selling direct or operating an agency model. If you have a franchise network, we have a franchise new car product that customers can buy. So that does put some limit, albeit that side of the market is changing all the time, which potentially more OEMs going down that route. From a listings perspective, it's only about 500, but it is a higher yielding product for two reasons. One, it gives national coverage, and secondly, obviously, with new cars, you can sell multiple units off one listing, whereas on the UCAR basis, you really are just selling that one individual advert.

Sean Keely from Pamier Gordon. Can I ask, firstly on the agency revenues, is it just advertising services you expect manufacturers to take up, or do you think there's scope to sell some of the data services and potentially other services in future? And secondly, on Autorama, you said you were accelerating the amortization of the Vanorama brand due to the quicker integration. Does that mean you'll be able to take some of the marketing costs out slightly quicker than I previously expected as well? And then if I could also just ask very quickly on how EV demand might impact Autorama and releasing business going forward as well. Thank you.

On manufacturer revenue streams and the advertising products, we have for a number of years sold some of our data products to manufacturers. We are working at the moment as we get more and more stock volume on to gather more of the observations, more of the insight, more of the intelligence that we have on used car. Because as Jamie said, we only have a few hundred cars on today. We've got the retailer cars that are being sold direct as well. We've probably got 20-odd thousand cars on. But compared to the 450,000 that we see in used cars, we are building and growing an observable data set of price position of how quickly these cars sell. And we are over time, we will build a more robust, more scalable data set that will give us more intelligence to be able to replicate some of the derived metrics that we use our machine learning tools to generate. So like the retail rating or the performance rating for those cars, but those products come with having stock and observations at scale. We're not quite there yet, but we will get there as we keep onboarding and bringing manufacturers on. Those data products that don't depend on those observations, so whether it's our vehicle taxonomy, which obviously we've been working with manufacturers on, or whether it's our valuations products and residual valuations products in particular, the OEMs have a real vested interest in how their used stock is performing too. So we do have a small revenue stream from manufacturers, but it should be a growing opportunity in the future as well.

Yeah, and on the Vanarama brand, so we've halved the useful economic life from 10 years to five years. That's from the point of acquisition. So I would expect, yes, over that five-year period, that marketing line to go to nil. Right now. I'd have it, you know, I think consensus is sort of four and a half in for this year. I would have it stepping down over the subsequent three years. Some of it slightly depends. At the moment, it's driving a lot of the van volumes. We're doing the work to get vans onto WaterTrader. So once we've done that change, that will probably yield a significant step and then it will step down subsequently as it just becomes really the WaterTrader platform driving the deal.

Did you want me to take the EV? Yeah, so this is how is EV demand impacting the auto arm business. I think the auto arm business is being more impacted by supply, if I'm honest. So Catherine kind of covered it. Most of the new car volume that has come back has gone into the fleet channel. Discounts are probably more than you would get in a retail channel, but capacity to pay that and being able to replace vehicles for EVs three years. So you haven't really seen big discounts playing through, nor have you seen a lot of supply, and those two things do move together. So we are starting to see more and more new cars reflecting a slightly higher discount. EVs have been more pronounced, partly because of the price moves that Catherine spoke about, that you've had the Tesla reductions, which doesn't just affect Tesla, it kind of affects the category. So I think... Until we start to see those private new car registrations ticking up, which has remained relatively flat, it's going to first go into those retail channels and then it will find its way down the waterfall, if you like, towards the proposition that Autorama has. One thing I would say is the broker channel, that core channel, does tend to have very, very good deals for new cars, but it's a smaller group of new cars. not quite the TK Max of cars, but it's that sort of, it's not a distress channel, but it's one of those channels that you will use after your own. I think where we're wanting to position that business over time is a transactional version of auto trader, which is not about us pre-redging vehicles. It's not about the special deal on small clumps of vehicles. It's about every single vehicle you've got available on PCH and putting that out to the auto trader audience so we're wanting to move ourselves you know we're looking to move ourselves up which is what the OEMs would prefer us would like us to do as well but just takes time and you need some cars to push to sell in order to be able to really activate those models.

Do you want Pete down here?

Hey it's Pete from Morgan Stanley apologies I have a few but starting with DST you said that you think not all of your revenues are in scope. So I wonder what of what those out of scope Revenues you think would be and I guess most importantly like does the tax man agree or do you need to dispute that? And the rest are on product. So you had 37% penetration of the above or above standard packages, which is up from 33 I think in March and which is quite a jump at least to my eyes, so any color, like what's specifically driving that would be helpful. And then the last is on deal builder. So what kind of communication have you had with the dealers that are currently on trial with regards to future monetization? I wonder, obviously they're not happy that it's not free forever, but what kind of talks have you had with regards to future monetization and With regards to the subscription and transactional part, would all of that be in the product lever, or would you be willing to kind of carve out the transactional part? Because if deal builder is successful, then the transactional part would make ARPA much more volatile over time. Thanks.

If I do it first, Catherine second, and Nathan third. Yeah, so DST, it's a great question. At the moment, we estimate that about 90% of auto trader revenue is in scope and about 85% of group revenue. The biggest line that is out of scope is the vehicle and accessory sales, which I think is reasonably clear cut. We are... engaging with HMRC, where we're writing to them saying, this is what we believe to be out of scope, and we'll have an answer back on that by the end of this financial year. So there is some conversation to be had, but I think we're hopeful that what we believe is out of scope, they'll be in agreement with. I think it's a bit of a moot point for fiscal year 25, so I think we're just talking about this financial year, because even... consensus growth rates, and it is all largely marketplace revenue where the growth comes from. So we will pull in, pull in scope for next year, unless something happens with a timeline of implementation for this new global two-pillar tax change. But I think we're hopeful that is in place during calendar year 2025, and so it is in 2026 financial year, it's not something that we incur anymore.

On prominence and what's driven prominence growth, I think there's a few different things going on actually with different segments of the customer base. We've definitely seen a cohort of customers that have been sitting there saying, actually, I want to do more with less. I've been holding a bit less stock because the stock hasn't been there. What I really want to do is drive speed of sale, drive velocity of transactions, keep that stock holding the same, but get the cycle time going. So we've seen a number of retail groups come to us with that very specific strategy. And that's absolutely what prominence can do for you, can help you drive that velocity and put less capital to work, but drive more transactions. And we've also seen, because there's been very intense sourcing competition in some age cohorts of vehicles, particularly some of the younger age cohorts where the supply hasn't been there. We've seen some of the big franchise groups in particular competing, looking to compete very directly with the supermarket group. Franchise groups sitting there, as Nathan talked to you before, looking to really push and drive the used car market. opportunity and actually for them again a way to most of our bigger supermarkets have always used our prominence products if you're a big franchise group and you want to compete and you're stocking the same type of vehicles because they're the vehicles that are available then actually again prominence is a great way to accelerate how competitive you are against other local or regional players and then finally i'd say in more recent months we've definitely seen some retailers that into October have seen some softening and in certainly some sense that the market for them is a bit softer than it might have been and so we've seen some retailers then saying well actually you know I need to know if the market if I feel like my market's got a little bit smaller I want to make sure I'm taking you know a bigger share or that or at least retaining my share so I'm going to go on prominence to try and make sure that I'm driving that market share position so a number of different prominence stage to a number of different strategies for retailers and I think we've seen All of those conversations, different conversations, play out with different types of retailers in the last few months.

And on DealBuilder, I'd make the first observation that we're comfortable to say that we still intend on monetising customers this year, and we do reflect on these things deeply in between results presentations. I think two things have happened over that period of time. Obviously, we've scaled up customers, and that's why we've kind of been more tentative to... you know, put our views forward on that. So we have got a good number of customers that are using it. We've seen how the percentage of their transactions has played out. And we've been through the debates internally to kind of get to a view on what might be the best way to start testing monetization. So I don't think we'd call it done by any means. And we have spoken to some customers and kind of shared some of those thoughts. So I don't think it's by any means kind of done and dusted, but we've got a pretty good track record of monetizing stuff, and I think we've kind of got our heads around this. It does link to your, you know, those conversations with customers. What they say always is that these deals are the most valuable thing that you send in the auto trade. There's no question. It converts better, and your likelihood of getting upsells, you know, it just saves time. They're more efficient. It's definitely where you want to start in the morning. So there's no question the value of the deals that we're putting through. I think on the balance between subscription and transactions, well, that will come down to what percentage of your sales does it account for. So they'll always pay for those transactions. But if they're, you know, you could probably push a subscription if you're up towards 50, 60% of their total deals that they get from AutoTrader. It's harder to small the number. I think for now, we would still look at subscription and a transaction charge. I think on the volatility, I'll be probably a little less concerned about that. If you do look at used car transactions, in more normal times, which hasn't been the last three years, admittedly. But even over the last three years, it is far less cyclical, with the exception of December, than something like new cars. But it's not lost on us. We do like subscription. We do like subscription revenues. But we are looking to kind of bridge a monetization or an economic gap with deal builders. So we probably, you know, there's a bit of give and take in that.

You'd also imagine for the first few years of the product, Like, we're at 5% of retailers' deals, but the growth that we're going to get, you would hope we'd get in penetration of deals, should well outweigh any... I mean, it would be a nice place to be, right, where we're a significant enough share of deals, but anything cyclical begins to impact that number. That's a good point.

Yeah, very clear. Thanks.

Guns that change, isn't it?

Thank you. So it's James Tate from Goldman Sachs. I've got two questions, please. Firstly, so margin in the core auto trader business was above 71%, I think a bit better than expected, and the four-year guidance was upgraded. So is that all being driven by operating leverage within the business, and how should we think about the moving parts for margin in terms of headcount, wage inflation, marketing in H2, and 2024 and beyond? And secondly, the stock lever was perhaps a bit weaker than expected in H1, but you reiterated the four-year guide. What gives you the confidence there? Have you seen improving monthly trends through the year? Thank you.

Yeah, I can take both of these. So I think that that side margin upgrade is largely coming through operating leverage. There is, if you think about the cost growth, The largest component is people costs. There are more people and there's underlying salary increases. And Nathan alluded to a new share scheme, so slightly higher share-based payment charge in this year. That then also impacts 25 and 26. Marketing and other costs are probably areas where it's slightly below top-line growth, and that's where you get the margin expansion from. In terms of the stock lever, yes, it was down to £32 in the first half. I know it's not always the perfect measure. The people that track the livestock on site will see it slightly up year on year. I think it's where we are now. You don't quite know what will happen over the next four months. If we hold, we'll see some slight improvement from these levels, which I think we expect. We're reasonably confident in that stock lever guidance.

Yeah, we'll go to Giles and then Kieran. Thank you. It's Giles Thorne from Jefferies. I had two questions for you. First one, back on deal builder, back on monetization. It'll be interesting to hear... how good a job you think the 90 to 120 pounds does of capturing the value of the underlying car that's being sold and then the value to the dealer being able to sell while they sleep and maybe fire a couple of people and actually having a very high conversion channel. And indeed, if you've spoken about the conversion of that channel being better, would you care to put some numbers on it? And then the second thing I had was, again, deal builder and just back on new car, you've got the new car advertising product agency, OEMs going down the agency route. It feels to me the glaring question is, when will you launch an iteration or a variation of Deal Builder for OEMs? So on the first question,

I would say I'm not sure auto trader advertising fees, Giles, quite capture the economic value of the cars that have sold there with a 10 times return on investment. and 120 or so pound cost per sale. But it is a little bit academic. So I think in some ways what we were aiming to achieve with DealBuilder is, well, can we double that take rate and add value to the retailer through both labor? But interestingly also, retailers are much more minded to think about extra money they can make than they are costs that they can save. And for a lot of our, remember our average retailer has only got 32 cars, so they've not got loads of staff kind of splitting spilling around so you know I think it's still a good aspiration to have and when we get there then we'll ask the question that you've just asked but I think you know at the moment what we want to get is to really shift the behavior of both retailers and consumers and the way they think about cars it's typically how we've typically found for better or worse, rightly or wrongly, that we do really under-monetize products once they get going, but you can kind of pick that up in the right way over time, and I think DealBuilder will be one of those products.

There's a couple of other bits in the question. One was around capturing the value of the car in that pricing, and the 90 to 120 is an average. That transaction fee is likely to be linked or will be linked, I think, to the price of the vehicle, so it should be capturing that value aspect. That conversion rate, I think what we're seeing at the moment, it deals convert pretty close to 1 in 2 versus more traditional inquiry types that are 1 in 4, 1 in 5.

On advertising products and new car, yes, absolutely. Ultimately, the goal would be to have a deal-builder product for those new cars too. I think what we've learned from our advertising to deal-builder journey on used car is that actually the better you can advertise a car to sell, the better you will perform as a deal-builder customer as well. The more optimized you are for speed of sale for price position, the better your ad quality, the better your resale rating, all of those things that we talk about all the time on Youcar, they are the things, the foundations that you need to be a good digital reseller on Autotrader as well. So actually, I feel like with where we are with the advertising product, scaling that advertising product, really understanding Everything we can about price position, everything we can about the description, the advertising performance of those cars and what really makes them sell will mean that when we do launch that deal builder product, it will be even more powerful. In terms of the technical or product capability to make a new car deal builder product, much of what we're building for used car is reusable in some form. The lenders, the finance providers are different, but we're integrating with many of many of those. The part exchange journey might need to be very slightly different, but actually the core building blocks of that end-to-end online journey and that handover into a retailer, which in this case would be a handover into a manufacturer, all of that is pretty consistent. So it's not a huge amount of new technical work. It's mostly about having the data products, the connectivity with the manufacturers to make sure that the consumer experience and the manufacturer experience can be as seamless and performant as it can be.

Karen in the middle. Thanks, yeah, that's Karen Donnelly from Barenburg. Thanks. A few questions from me. Just firstly on deal builder, let's call it the core user journey, could you just give a sense of users that enter the journey to converting through the whole process, what that looks like, and could you just remind us, can the separate elements be used discreetly by the users still in that journey? And then secondly, just in terms of the leasing journey, can you clarify whether all the stocks applied in that journey is coming from Autorama? And then I guess just in connection to that, can you give us an insight into how dealers are seeing the relationship with Autotrader now post the acquisition of Autorama in terms of shifting from a potential partner to more of a competitor? Thanks. Shall I take the first one and Nathan can take the second?

Yeah. So I think the conversion through the deal builder funnel, we've not put numbers out there. I think we would say it's good for initial launch, but there is room to improve it. So learning Even all the way back from the very front end part of the process where you're on the full page ad, you're interested in that vehicle, why might you click on that button? So then having clicked on it to get through the funnel, it's probably that through the funnel that's good room for improvement. I think full page ad into button, you know, Catherine mentioned the 5% of sales room, that's probably where there's even greater scope to make improvements. A deal has to have, in terms of the individual components, a deal has to have a reservation to qualify as a deal. Part exchange and finance are optional add-ons, and so they can be done. Everything has to have a reservation, but they too can be done or not done as the buyer chooses.

Yes, the leasing journey on AutoTrader and the journey that is on Vanorama today All that stock is kind of Autorama stock, but I think there are two important cavities. Autorama is essentially a marketplace, and that's what we want to go forward with. So there's 14 leasing providers, there's all OEMs, and you basically put the deals between the OEM to the leasing providers, get the best deal for the consumer, and then transact it. the model that we want to move to. Only 10% of vehicles-ish are actually Autorama vehicles, as in have been pre-registered in some way. So that's the minority, and over time we see that becoming, you know, small to nothing over the longer term. Our real focus is on that marketplace, so we're not selling our own vehicles into the marketplace, which probably leads nicely into, Catherine, your question around the dealer relationships.

Yeah, I mean, to be honest, most dealers, because through Vanorama and through the leasing, broking, we've always positioned it, which is absolutely the goal for this model, that we're marketing those cars on behalf of a funder or a leasing company. So it's not us, auto trader, taking inventory risk or a position on those cars, or certainly for the majority of cars and for the model that is a scalable model in the future for that business, it's absolutely not with us or Autorama taking any risk at all on those vehicles. So it's us providing a route to market, another distribution channel for someone that owns a car and wants to sell it. Now there's 7.5 million used car transactions in the UK each year and a million or so private new car retail sales. Leasing is a new car only product today and the segment of consumers that are in market for a brand new car and are open to leasing It's a big and growing cohort, but compared to where the volume of the market is, which is still very much in used car transactions, actually most of our audience, most of our retailers are focused on that massive market and massive opportunity. And as long as our core products are performing for those retailers and we're acquiring consumers and audience and engaging them and sending leads and transactions to those retailers, then actually for most of our retailers, the broking proposition, the broking product isn't really visible to them and certainly isn't impacting their core auto trader performance. So vast majority of our customers, I don't think since we did the acquisition, they've really noticed or we've seen, we haven't seen a huge amount of feedback. There are one or two of the big franchise groups that have fleet divisions. A couple of them own their own leasing companies. Brokers, and so for them, clearly they're more interested in what we're doing, but more interested because they've got a business that directly happens to complete with the broking bit, rather than because they see our product cannibalizing their core used or new car business.

Just as a quick follow-up, as you bring that leasing journey into the used environment, do you think that could shift further

I think we're a ways away at the moment from having any funders or leasing companies that have got viable or are getting serious about putting volume through used car direct-to-consumer leasing. We're still at a moment where the new car PCH market hasn't really come back to anything like the volumes we were seeing prior to the pandemic. And I think Certainly everyone we talk to is very focused on driving grace again in that segment of the market, and used cars still feels like quite a long way out. So I think we will deal with that and think that through as and when we need to, but it doesn't feel like something we're going to need to tackle in the next couple of years.

Great. Martin, it's the last one. Good morning. Three quick questions from my side. The stock on the market extension was down to 5% in H124. So could you just explain what was driving that? Second, obviously, you invested a lot in terms of product, but could you also talk about investments in AI in terms of how could you think about the customer interaction within the portal and basically around the dealer as well and general thoughts about overall product pipeline in general beyond what you have currently as well? And finally, on the margin aspirations for Autorama in H124 and H25, please. Thank you.

We have seen a slight drop in the volume of stock on market extension. What we've seen, I think, over the last year or so from customers actually is a lot of, we've seen quite a lot of experimentation of firstly customers trialing different versions of click and collect or home delivery models, trying to establish like what operating model, what combination of consumer experience do they want to put together, which has meant some retailers have trialed the product, perhaps haven't operationally been ready actually often to support the volume of leads and the physical movement of vehicles that you often need to have in place to support a consumer experience on the product. So we've seen some customers come on arguably a bit early in terms of operating model being ready and there to support it. We've also seen some movement between customers trialing that market extension product. And then we had a big customer recently that moved from market extension to one of our higher yielding prominent packages. So they're both the different ways of buying more visibility, more volume, more sales on AutoTrader. What we haven't done and we're in the process of doing is connecting that market extension product into the deal builder journey because that should be where these two things really come together to deliver the best experience for retailers and consumers when you've got a car that might be a long way away from that consumer but they can reserve the car they can complete more of the jobs online and they're much much closer to the transaction where they then either travel for the forecourt or you're potentially delivering the car to them if they've completed all of the journey so we're hopeful that bringing deal builder and market extension together in the coming months will help to drive growth in market extension Also, some of those customers that we worked with initially that weren't quite ready, we're now seeing some of those come back on looking to extend reach. They've got the logistics capability in place. They're thinking differently about click and collect potentially rather than home delivery as the main proposition. So I think we're confident that there's still growth in that product to come.

Yeah, and on your second question, in terms of product roadmap, there's loads. They do break down into the marketplace, platform, digital retail, and each of those are rich themes that I think we can mine realistically for many years. In terms of AI specifically, you won't have necessarily seen this, but in anticipation of this question, but not so much that we thought we needed to cover in the main presentation, slide 33 answers your question hopefully reasonably. conclusively but it just talks to we have been building and monitor actually it turns out most of what Katherine talked about on the platform slide is all artificial intelligence based models that we are in the process of monetizing we've been doing that for five or six years we think there's more that we can do we think large language models are interesting we don't currently we've got capability in those and we've got collaborations with universities in those but I haven't deployed any of those yet certainly consumer facing because we do think some of the technology still needs to mature a bit in terms of cost effectiveness and also accuracy because there's one thing our retailers and consumers do hold us to very high standards when it comes to putting stuff out there but we've got all the capability there and you know we're looking to deploy those things to make dealers more efficient to make consumers journey the consumers journey more efficient and actually make our own people efficient. We're doing versions of all of those today.

Yeah, and on Autorama, so we said the guidance is largely unchanged. The focus is to significantly reduce the losses. I think consensus for this year is close to nine. The next year is sort of two and a half. And longer term, we said we thought it could get to 20% to 30% margins, and that's unchanged.

Okay, we're going to finish up there. Thank you everyone for joining us and everyone joining us on the call. That's all for us. Thank you.