Axa Sa Ord

Good day and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the AXA full year 2025 earnings presentation. Currently all participants are in a listen only mode. After the speakers presentation there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session you will need to press star and one on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising your hand is raised. To withdraw your question, please press star one again. Please note that today's conference has been recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker, Anu Venkataraman.

Please go ahead. Thank you, Operator. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to AXA's full year 25 results presentation. Presenting the results today are our Group CEO, Thomas Buble, Global Head of Finance, Strategy, Underwriting, Risk, and Technology, Guillaume Boury, and our Group CFO, Alvon de Mainel. In addition, we also have in the room Patrick Cohen, CEO of AXA European Markets and Health, Mathieu Godard, CEO of AXA France, and Scott Gunter, CEO of AXA Excel. With that, I turn it over to Thomas.

Thank you, Anu. Good morning to all of you, and thank you for joining us for our full year 2025 results presentation. As you have seen from the numbers, we had a record performance with a group that is now positioned exactly where we want it to be, a pure insurance player with every business and every geography contributing positively to both the top and the bottom line. I'm extremely pleased with these strong results across the board. You see that the top line has grown by 6%, which is reflecting the strength of our franchise. You also have seen that the underlying earnings per share have grown by 8%, which is the top of our target range. This all happened while we were enhancing our reserve prudence and were absorbing significant headwinds. For example, the adverse foreign exchange development we had last year and also the temporary dilution from the sale of AXAIEM. All of this happens on a very strong balance sheet with 5.6 billion cash at the holding company and a Solvency II ratio that remains high post-rent fathering of the debt at 215%. We expect a further 17% uplift from the Solvency II revision that will kick in on the 1st of January, 2027. This is a very solid position and in the current environment also a needed position to absorb shocks. The return on equity is at 16%, which enables us to fund organic growth and to sustain an attractive payout to our shareholders. We have also now completed the 3.8 billion euro share buyback that was related to the sale of AXAIA. So, in total, we are very well positioned, strongly capitalized, and we are delivering consistent high-quality growth in the top and the bottom line. When we look at this year and based on this record performance, I am very confident that we can deliver underlying earnings per share for this year at the top end of our target range. If we move to the next slide, our performance this year reflects a very disciplined execution on all fronts. which are growth, margin and efficiency, while at the same time we are continuing to invest in our business. The top line growth, as I mentioned earlier, was 6% and is well balanced across all lines of business. At the same time, we also increased our margins, which reflects a disciplined growth, a deployment of machine learning and predictive AI in particular in pricing and underwriting, and also a reduced leakage in claim settlement through better analytics and tighter processes. We have also made good progress in delivering efficiency through technology and automation. The underlying earnings, if you exclude AXA-IM, which we sold and closed by the middle of last year, grew by plus 9% on a constant currency basis. More importantly, these earnings are of very high quality. We do not have to fix any business anymore or have benefited from any turnarounds or one-time effects. In fact, we have taken advantage of strong earnings to reinforce prudence across all lines of business. What I would particularly like to highlight is the P&C performance. This is a stellar performance, 9% earnings growth, resilience pricing, including Excel, a lower current year loss ratio, excluding nut cut, a reduced expense ratio, strong investment income, and as I mentioned earlier, further reserve prudence. The life and health results are also of high quality. They have grown by 7% in earnings. We see a strong commercial momentum. We see higher net flows across all geographies. And what was important for us in 2025 was to particularly work on the short-term technical results. And you've seen that there is a 15% increase. while we also have a strong CSM release that is driven by reserve growth and improved margin on our in-force portfolio. This has also allowed us to build additional prudence on both technical experience and fund distribution. So we are delivering strong earnings growth in line with our commitments while further strengthening the resilience of our earnings across all lines of business. This performance reflects the quality of a well-diversified, strong insurance franchise and the deliberate strategic actions that we have taken over the last decade to reposition AXA and strengthen the execution. So we are very confident that we can sustain this performance. And as I said, my view for this year is that we can clearly deliver an underlying earnings per share at the top end of our range. If we go to the next slide and take a step back and look at the industry, it is in very good shape. with profitability and capital being at strong levels. The insurance industry is certainly also benefiting from structural growth drivers that support sustainable long-term expansion across all lines of business. When you look, for example, in retail, we see growing protection gaps from underinsurance, especially amongst the modest income customers. And this is obviously fueling demand for more affordable and accessible coverage. When you look at emerging risks such as autonomous vehicles, cyber, data centers, energy transition, these are creating new and attractive growth avenues in the commercial and specialty lines. When you think about life and health, we are confronted today with aging demographics, we have pressure on public systems, and we have demand for private health protection and retirement solutions, in particular in the countries where public systems have not delivered. And if you think about the UK, this is probably a very illustrative case. AXA today is well positioned to benefit from all of these opportunities because we have a broad and strong distribution footprint to capture these opportunities. For example, we are expanding in direct distribution And we are forging partnerships to reach modest income customers. And in particular, in Europe, this has been a very successful journey over the last year. We have deep technical expertise to underwrite risks profitably. AXA XL has been insuring autonomous driving technology for some time now, and we are amongst very few insurers that have the engineering and risk management expertise to underwrite, for example, larger data centers and digital infrastructure. Our scale, and it was always very important for us to be in fewer countries but have scale, enables us to deliver competitive products to our customers. And we obviously, given that scale continues to increase, We intend to continue to drive down our unit costs as we go along. Importantly, we have a very trusted brand and we are and will remain a long-term partner to our customers. So if you look forward, there is plenty of opportunities ahead and we are well placed to capture them and my team and I are very excited about the future growth opportunities. If we go to the next slide, page six, and looking at this year, our priorities are obviously twofold, because on the one hand side, we have to deliver the current plan. And as I said, I'm very confident that we will be delivering at the top end of our range so that we have a good delivery for this current three-year plan. But on the other hand, we also lay the foundations for the future success. As a CEO, I have to identify and execute a few decisive moves to secure our long-term competitiveness. Today, my biggest strategic priority is to continue to transform our business. When we talk about transformation, we don't talk about moonshots. Our goal is really together to create a consistent and sustainable value for our shareholders. And obviously, in this equation, our customers do remain at the center of everything. This transformation I would like to design with my team along four dimensions. First, we see AI as an absolute enabling technology that can create tremendous benefits for companies that can leverage it well. For us, AI is an efficiency play, but not only. Because AI will change how customers access insurance. It will change the personalization in products. And it will also change the customer experience. And so we want to be strongly positioned for the shift. Secondly, AI is already improving pricing accuracy, underwriting quality and claims management because we have a lot of data, often also a lot of unstructured data, and AI will help us to leverage them not only for the underwriting decisions to make today, but also using all the historic data we've got. And AI is also absolutely key to continue to develop our own tech cycles. When you think about further developing our tech landscape, when you think about making sure that our data foundations are stronger. And so we work with very tangible cases that are now ready to scale. Secondly, AI also enables us to increase the efficiency and agility of our business so we can adapt to this constantly changing environment. As you know from the past, AXA is a company that is not afraid of change. We have a history of making bold moves and we will continue now making these bold moves in an environment that is more driven by organic development. Third, we intend to enhance our capital allocation discipline even more to focus on the highest return growth and the best investment opportunities. Finally, and that is very important in a period like this, we aim to build resilience to drive greater predictability and reliability in our performance. You've seen that over the years, we have strengthened our diversification enormously. not only just across geographies or lines of business, but also across our customer segments and distribution. And we will continue this journey to ensure that we always have a robust balance sheet and a robust risk management framework. Our ambition is to be a winner in our industry, the preferred insurer for our customers, a place that can not only attract the best talents, but can also compound great value for our shareholders. Thank you. And I'm now handing over to Guillaume Boury.

Thank you very much, Thomas, and good morning to all of you. It's a pleasure being with you this morning for my first time presenting the group results in my new position and doing it on a day where we announce excellent results. As Thomas mentioned, the group is very well positioned today and therefore our priority should be to safeguard this performance and where possible take it to the next level. We will do that starting from a solid platform. As you can see on this page, arguably our businesses are firing up on all cylinders. All our businesses, all our geographies have delivered excellent performance in 25, both on top line and bottom line. Specifically, We are particularly happy with AXA Excel results. Earnings are up 9% with stable, excellent margins and selective, profitable growth. Excel is a highly diversified franchise, both across geographies and by line of business, each with its own dynamics. So what those results are demonstrating is our ability to capture profitable growth opportunities while managing the cycle and therefore growing our earnings. On this page, you also see that France is an excellent performer. Clearly, it's a core engine for the group and those results are showing our resilience in the current environment in this country. And you also see that our businesses in Europe, across eight countries where we have solid positions, keep delivering consistently with strong contribution to the group performance. Let me now turn to our P&C businesses. Thomas insisted earlier on our discipline execution on all fronts. And when I look at PNC in 25, for us, it's the perfect example of this discipline, consistent execution to deliver strong performance. Earnings are up 9%. But what's most important is that we're improving in all ways. attritional ratio down, expense ratio down, lower PYDs, higher investment income, and we enhanced our reserves buffers. So how have we delivered this all together? We are following an operational playbook that is adapted to each of our three businesses in PNC that have more or less each the same size. Look at retail and SME mid-markets. A year of excellent performance. Those businesses together represent two-thirds of our P&C business. And in those businesses, we delivered margin expansion while gaining market share in a favorable pricing environment. That's particularly true for the retail business with strong net new contracts and further improvements in an already excellent profitability. Looking ahead on those businesses with those margins at excellent level, we will focus on further strengthening distribution to improve customer retention and enlarge the addressable markets. It goes with reinforcing our proprietary agent network, further investing in our digital capabilities, but also forging new strategic distribution partnerships, Look at what we did in Europe in 25 with Coreos in Spain or Lloyds Bank in the UK. It does give us access to new customer pools to further boost our growth. And last but not least, in retail, we are strengthening our direct channels. It complements our excellent traditional distribution networks, and it helps us better meet evolving customer expectations. As you know, 25 was the year of Prima's acquisition. At Excel, on the other hand, and as we mentioned earlier, earnings are up 9%, and again, with an excellent underlying performance. No PYDs. Excellent results. Clear demonstration of our ability to grow and best manage the cycle. I would like to make something very clear on Excel. Yes, the commercial market has become more competitive. But yes, also, we see attractive, profitable opportunities we can capture thanks to the diversity of our book. Thomas mentioned it. We are a major player in energy transition, in ensuring complex engineering risks, in ensuring autonomous vehicle technology, and so on and so forth. So we expect growth to continue on this path in 26 and beyond, and it will support profitability at Excel. Alban will come back to that in a minute. So we are entering the next years with our P&C business from a position of strength, with all businesses contributing, best-in-class margins and distribution reinforced. But we should not be complacent with this strong position. We do see further levers that will help us sustain profit growth going forward. And the good news is that those levers are fully in our hands. First, our expense ratio is already competitive, but we believe we can go further. We remain focused on further margin expansion through efficiency gains. This has already contributed in 2025. It will become an even more important driver in the coming years in this business. Second, clearly, investment income will be a tailwind. It's supported by higher asset base, given our strong growth, as well as obviously higher reinvestment yields. And last but not least, as part of our data and AI roadmap, we will upgrade our pricing, underwriting, and claims management processes. Already today, we have realized one point of loss ratio benefit from our AI initiatives. This will be a major lever to ensure that we are well positioned in the future and further enhance our technical excellence. Moving now to life and health. There also, it's been a year of discipline execution. discipline execution to sustain earnings growth. You see solid performance of 7% growth and where, basically, we did what we said we would do. In the long-term business, 25 shows the first tangible outcomes of our strategy to rejuvenate our products and distribution. Life is back. Net inflows improved significantly across all geographies, and this supports CSM release over time with early benefits already visible in 2025. Alban will come back to it. On the short-term business, we grow our technical margin by 15%, while at the same time, as Thomas indicated, we absorbed the 0.1 billion impact of a legislative change on recoverability of VAT in Mexico. So what does it demonstrate on the short-term business? The very fact that we have now a resilient health portfolio. The health business grew earnings by 17% in 25 despite this headwind. It does reflect the benefits of discipline pricing, underwriting, and claims management initiatives taken over the last two years through our dedicated health business unit. So from this strong year, we are well positioned to capture the increasing opportunities we see and that were underlined by Thomas, rising demand and rising protection gaps, both on retirement and savings and on health and production. We believe that in life and health, we have laid solid foundations to capture profitable growth going forward In retirement, it will come with a rejuvenated offer and complementing our product range with production features. To that extent, with the sale of AXA-IM, we can now work in open architecture and source best-in-class asset management products to best match our customer needs. This long-term partnership with BNP will broaden our product offerings, notably in equities and ETF, but it will also enable us to access competitive products of other third-party asset managers. This will drive future growth of our savings business. When you go to health and production over the coming years, we believe there also that we can further enhance underwriting, reduce the impact of fraud, waste, and abuse through artificial intelligence, and that those initiatives will further strengthen our competitive position. Before leaving the floor to Alban and to conclude, I would like to insist on the quality of our execution in 25. We believe this is the best tribute to the strong commitment of our teams across the world. Our commitment to deliver our plan with strong discipline. Our commitment to best leverage and further transform our unique insurance franchise. And yes, our commitment to deliver sustainable, predictable, consistent earnings growth. We will follow the same discipline and leverage the same commitment to take us to the next level and sustain in the next years our performance with a strong focus on execution in three main areas where we see strong potential. And again, three areas where we have everything in our hands. We do want to have an even more ambitious tech and AI agenda. Why so? To unlock our organic growth potential. We do want to extract more efficiencies from a deeper operational transformation that we are extremely committed to execute. And last but not least, we do want to continue to maintain our discipline on capital management. Thank you very much for your attention, and I'm happy to leave the floor to Alban.

Thank you, Guillaume, and good morning to all. So let me now go through the key numbers of 2025, starting with P&C. So as Thomas and Guillaume said, we delivered excellent P&C results with earnings up 9%. And as was said, we achieved these results while enhancing reserve prudence. All the drivers, growth, technical margin, expenses, and investment income contributed to the earnings growth. So first, premiums. Premiums grew by 5% with a good balance between pricing and volume and with strong contribution of all our lines of business. P&C combined ratio improved further to 90.6%, with a 30 bps improvement in undiscounted nutritional loss ratio, a further 30 bps improvement in the expense ratio, reflecting our efficiency measures. NatCat stood at 3.4%, below the 4.5 points budget for the second year in a row. And we had a low reliance on PYD at minus 1.1 point. So all our lines of business are performing well. In PNC personal and in commercial lines, excluding AXA Excel, The undiscounted attritional loss ratio and expense ratio improved by 90 bps in both lines. Going forward, we expect sustained growth and further margin improvement in personal lines and SME and mid-market. And you know that both represent together two-thirds of our P&C business. At AXA Excel Insurance, margins were stable. with a combined ratio at 91% with no PYDs, demonstrating our ability to grow while managing the cycle. At AXA Excel RE, the combined ratio remains at a very attractive level of 81%. Overall, earnings grew by 9% at AXA Excel and 18% at AXA Excel Insurance specifically. Investment income was also a strong contributor, reflecting a higher asset base and reinvestment yields, more than offsetting the 0.2 billion mechanical increase in Unwind. So overall, high quality results with good growth in top line, improvement in technical margins and expenses, and growth in investment income. And this growth in profitability was off a clean base with no businesses in turnaround. Moving on to life and health, premiums were up 8%, earnings were up 7%, and both our short-term and long-term businesses delivered strong performance. In short-term life and health, insurance revenues were up 10%. Technical margins grew by 15% while absorbing 0.1 billion impact from a legislative change in the recoverability of VAT in Mexico. Adjusting for this impact, the combined ratio would have improved by 80 bps. These results demonstrate the quality of our health franchise. And we expect margins to continue to expand as we earn the benefits of underwriting and claims management actions. On top, we expect to see better profitability in Mexico as we take actions to offset the impact of the VAT change. In long-term life and health, our efforts to rejuvenate the savings business are paying off. We see solid momentum with strong top-line growth and improving net flows. In life in particular, our new business CSM was up 4%, but that's in fact plus 6% if you strip out the negative impacts of the higher interest rates on the discounted value of new business CSM. And we are very happy with those growth numbers. CSM release grew by 8%. This reflects reserve growth from positive net flows, from the annual interest credited to policyholders in general account, and the favorable impact of equity market returns in unit-linked. On top, 2025 CSM release was re-based to reflect better margins. This is a good base from which to grow, but at a pace more in line with our guidance of greater than 3%. We took advantage of strong CSM release growth to be prudent in fund distribution and long-term technical performance. So overall, very good performance in both short-term and long-term businesses. And we are confident in sustaining this momentum. Moving on to net income. Overall, at group level, we delivered plus 6% underlying earnings growth. Excluding AXA-IM, underlying earnings growth is plus 9%. Net income obviously benefited from the $2.2 billion gain from the sale of AXA-IM, and that was partly offset by unfavorable impact from FX and change in fair value of derivatives. Overall, plus 8% growth in underlying earnings per share at the top end of our target range. And we achieved this strong performance while enhancing reserve prudence, as I said, and absorbing headwinds, minus 2 points from FX and minus 1 point from the temporary dilution from the sale of Axiom. And finally, moving on to Solvency II. Our Solvency II ratio was 224% at the end of 2025. And as you know, as of January 1, 2026, we have the end of the grant funding period. So the pro forma Solvency II ratio at January 1, 2026 was 215%. But in addition, we currently estimate an uplift of 17 points from the Solvency II revision. This estimate is based on the January 1, 26 balance sheet and may obviously slightly change depending on the conditions that will prevail in Q1, 27 when Solvency II revision will come into effect. We do not expect the Solvency II revision to impact normalized capital generation. Our robust balance sheet provides us with additional capital flexibility, notably to reduce leverage. So overall, we are very pleased with our 2025 performance. We had solid delivery on top line and bottom line across all segments. The group is in excellent shape with strong underlying trends across our businesses. And we are confident to deliver at the upper end of the 6% to 8% target range in 2026. So going into 2026, what are the trends to have in mind? P&C, so at AXA Excel, we have room to grow earnings in 2026, reflecting the attractive growth opportunities while maintaining stable margins, XCAT. In P&C retail and in P&C commercial lines XXL, pricing remains supportive, and we see good growth opportunities. We expect margins to further improve XCAT. And as a reminder, our normalized catload is 4.5%. We also expect financial results to grow in 2026, reflecting further increase in investment income, albeit at a slower pace than in 2025, and stable insurance finance expense at minus 1.4 billion. In life and health, In short-term business, we expect revenue growth and expansion in margins, including from the progressive recovery in Mexico, reflecting the actions that we have taken to offset the VAT change. In long-term business, improving net flow strength in life from commercial momentum and better persistency will fuel earnings growth over time. We will continue to drive efficiency in 2026. And in the holding segment, we expect earnings to remain flat. So this gives us confidence to deliver the UEPS growth at the upper end of our 6% to 8% target range in 2026. while absorbing headwinds such as FX if FX rates remain where they are today. And with that, I hand over to Thomas for the conclusion.

Thank you very much, Alban. In conclusion, we have presented today record results at the top end of our target range, while at the same time enhancing reserve prudence. You've seen that all businesses, geographies and lines of business are in excellent shape. They are delivering strong growth and profitability. And this is due to the fact that we have built a very diversified franchise that is well positioned now to capture the future growth opportunities. And we are certainly now laying the foundation for the next plan. And as I said, we are confident in delivering a sustainable earnings growth. And for 2026, this will particularly mean that we can deliver underlying earnings per share at the top end of our range. And I'm very confident that we're getting there. Thank you very much for your attention. And we are now coming to your questions. It would be good if when you ask a question, you say your name first and then your question. Thank you.

Thank you. This is the conference operator. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Good morning. Thank you for taking my questions.

Firstly, on PNC commercial lines, please. Given the change in market conditions since the start of your plan, we could have expected you to reach your target with a bit more support from investment income than technical results. But what we're seeing today is very resilient margins across commercial lines, including Excel. Alvaro, you just mentioned you expect stable margins in 26. Can you give us some context on the key measures you're taking across the commercial lines book to offset the headline pricing pressure we're seeing in both the U.S. and Europe? And then secondly, on the big solvency ratio benefits you expect from the review next year, where do you see the potential uses of this additional capital? I'm wondering to what extent this gives you more flexibility to take on the writing or maybe market risk, change your debt structure, perhaps free up cash in some local unit, et cetera. Any call there would be helpful. And then lastly, on personal lines, the underlying margins iterated in the second half of 25 and were flat compared to the same period in 24, despite pricing having been ahead of claims inflation throughout the year. So can you give us some color on that, please? Thank you.

Thank you very much for your three questions. I would suggest the first question around PNC commercial lines, which was around the outlook for Europe and the US. We start with Scott for 26, and then we go to Patrick Cohen for Europe. When it comes to the solvency benefits, Alban, if you could take that question, what are we doing when we are back at 232% solvency on the 1st of January 2027? And then, Patrick, if you could talk about the question of the underlying margin in retail over the last quarter. So let's start with commercial lines. Scott.

Thank you, Thomas. Just a couple of comments from AXA XL standpoint. With respect to the portfolio, we have a very broad, diverse portfolio. To give perspective on the insurance side, we sell – we have about 400 different products, and we sell a mix of those products across 26 different countries. So that gives us somewhat unique leverage and to be able to figure out where the margins are and how we allocate resources and capital to execute on those margins. With respect to the United States in particular, the property market, while seeing more price reductions in the fourth quarter than obviously in the earlier quarters, still remains an excellent business and we continue to write that business and move forward on it. The D&O business, in particular, while has been in a soft market for the last few years, we actually saw prices starting to level out towards the end of the fourth quarter. And we remain sort of optimistic going into 26 that, you know, we're coming out of that softening marketplace and into a little bit more stable to slightly increasing pricing in that marketplace. Other tailwinds for us is obviously, you know, we're a pretty large buyer of reinsurance, and some of the pricing on the reinsurance for us on the insurance side is going to help us relative to margin, as well as our expense initiatives and also investment income. So you pile everything together, we remain confident in our ability to maintain our, you know, ultimate combined ratios at a similar level that we're currently at. Patrick, on your...

Thank you for the question. I would start by saying that we are super pleased to have record high profitability in commercial line in 2025. This is the reflection of a disciplined growth with resilient pricing that is above loss trend in 2025 and expected to be in 2026. So really an outstanding profitability. We have an all year below 90 combined ratio and importantly, a high retention rate. When we look at our markets, the UK market has been a little bit more challenging with declining prices in some line of business, but we remain pretty much very much, I would say, disciplined across the board. as I said, resilient pricing above loss trend in all countries and discipline in our portfolio management with some actions we've been taking. So going forward... We will continue with the same spirit to maintain those margins. We believe this is feasible. We have strong initiatives to further increase our technical excellence and win the preference of our customers. We're focusing on high growth profitable specialties that could be renewables in Germany or surety in Switzerland and other markets. We are making it even more easy to interact with us for our brokers with straight-through processing underwriting platforms in order to win their preference and the preference of our customers. And very importantly, we're ramping up AI capabilities Certainly in underwriting, we're super pleased with some use cases we're having, for instance, in the UK that helps our underwriters speeding up data ingestion, triage, and give them knowledge assistance in underwriting. So all of this makes us very confident to keep with the same trajectory of discipline growth.

Thank you, Patrick. Alban, on the solvency, knowing that solvency is very much also driven by future profit, which is not cash, but you will give some light into that.

Absolutely. And hello, David. So the first thing to say is that it is obviously a solvency to revision. So given that at group level we are regulated with this norm, It impacts our solvency. But a significant number of our subsidiaries have local regulations that are different, thinking about Excel, thinking about the UK, Switzerland, Hong Kong, Japan. So locally, you won't see a change in their solvency ratio. And therefore, that will not create for those entities additional solvency and therefore additional ability to upstream cash. And in the European entities, solvency is not always the constraining factor when it comes to paying additional dividend. So what will we use this solvency for? You mentioned two things. One is, additional underwriting risks. At this stage, as you know, and you saw that in our sovereignty to roll forward, we generate 28 points of capital every year before dividend and buyback, and four after paying dividend and buyback and having our organic growth. So today, Capital is not a constraining factor for our growth. And so we are growing on lines of business that we like, where we have the proper profitability, as Scott explained. So we want to grow more, but having more sovereignty is not a factor in this equation. And it's quite similar on the asset side. Theoretically, you're right, we could take more asset risk. But that's not something that we want. The risks that we take in our assets are not driven by solvency. They are driven by our ALM, our strategic asset allocations, and a review of market opportunities. So fundamentally, what does that additional solvency give us? more capital flexibility and ability to deleverage if we want to.

Thank you, Alban. Patrick, on the question of retail and underlying margin deterioration.

Yeah, so I would first restate what was said in the presentation introduction, that this is an excellent year for retail in Europe, excellent performance, both on the top line, on the fact that we are gaining net new contracts everywhere and very significantly across Europe. And when it comes to the margins, I would stress the fact that our loss ratio is actually – down over two points. And that's one point when you exclude cats. So that's a very, very strong performance. And again, this trend is reflected in all of our entities, which is something quite quite positive. Obviously, there's always a bit of variability from one half of the year to the other, depending mostly on weather condition and large losses. I think this is what explained the slight differentiation between half one and half two. But overall, it's a very, very strong improvement we had in our loss ratio in retail.

Thank you. I mean, the net new contracts were like 1.7 million, which is not nothing. So very good. We go to the next question.

Thank you.

Next question is from Thomas Batman, Mediabanker.

Hi, good morning. Thank you very much for taking my questions. I just wanted to come back or plus the comments chance to look at the full report yet, but I remember looking previously and you haven't really... Thomas, sorry, we have trouble hearing you.

Thomas, sorry, we have trouble understanding you. I don't know if you are using your headset, but if you could maybe try again. We couldn't understand what you said.

Apologies. I just wanted to go back to reserving and your positive comments on reserving. Give us a little bit more colour there about what you've done. And in particular, if we were to, when the report's released, the full report, what will I see in terms of some of the most recent accidents? And the second question is just on the distribution footprint you talked about in retail SMA. Can you maybe just give us a little bit of colour of it and an extension to that?

Thomas, it was again difficult to understand your questions. Let me try and see if we did understand the right thing based on the fragments we heard. So your first question, I guess, was around the reserve prudency that we mentioned. What have we done exactly? And the second one was about distribution footprint in retail and SME. Were those your two questions?

Yes, exactly.

Very good. So I think on the first question, Alban, if you could talk a little bit. I mean, it's relatively simple. If you look at the last year and the net cut experience that we have had, we could have easier shown better results. We decided not to and instead increase our reserve prudence. But Alban will go into more detail. And then on the distribution footprint, Rita and SME, we have the pleasure also to be joined by Mathieu Godard, who has recently taken over AXA France, where we have a very strong distribution footprint and where we are also strong in the development of our footprint. And maybe he can... shed some light on where we are and how he's going to continue to do it, knowing that in France, wherever you are in France, you're never further than four kilometers away from an agency of AXA. Albon on the reserving.

Thank you. Hello, Thomas. So on reserving, our consistent approach over time has always been to have a prudent approach in all our lines of business in all our countries. And you see that through the recurring level of PYDs that we have. We also said that we would manage to gather natural catastrophes, discount benefit, NPYDs, and that's why this year, given the low level of NatCat compared to our annual budget, we could further enhance that prudence. I think in your question, if we understood correctly, there was also a question of how geographic footprint of the ability to release PYD. And that gives me the opportunity to mention that, obviously, in France and in Europe, we have that. But also at Excel, we have had a prudent approach at both Excel insurance and Excel reinsurance. You saw that we didn't release any PYDs in 2025 in those two entities. But we took the opportunity of that good year to further increase the prudence, and we are now on all our lines of business, and in particular in the long-tail lines of Excel, at a significantly better level of prudence than four or five years ago, for instance.

Thank you, Alban. Mathieu, and then I will suggest afterwards, because we talk about agents in France, Patrick can maybe add something around other distribution networks that we have activated, like Correos and Lloyds.

Mathieu. Right. Thank you very much for the question. So, yes, we do have in France a very distinctive, exclusive distribution force. that encompasses almost 15,000 people on the ground, should it be tight agents or salaried commercial salespeople. And we have continuously invested in this workforce to illustrate last year it was more than 400 new distributors that joined this force on the ground to better serve our customers. So, first, we grow numbers on the ground. Then, on top of this, we keep investing in developing their expertise to better advise our customers, should it be on P&C, life and health, but also on very important topics such as preventions, which is critical for the future and the topic of insurability. So numbers, expertise, but also we do invest in their tools that we put in their hands. And then I would also like to shed the light on what we do with AI. We have introduced, to improve their productivity, a new tool that is based on AI to better interact when it comes to defining the underwriting or answering, sorry, the underwriting questions that they might have. We introduced an AI tool that was deployed very rapidly, probably in a speed that was unseen before. And we have on a daily basis more than 2,000 requests that are automatically answered, so better for their productivity. So we grow them in number, we keep developing our expertise, and we keep equipping them with modern tools. Thank you.

I would add to this that we have made a number of very significant deal in Europe on alternative distribution from our TIDE agents that are going to help decisively and are already helping to drive the growth. So to mention a few, Deloitte's banking agreement in the UK. We're talking about a leading banking network serving 28 million customers. The partnership with Correos in Spain, which is the national post that has over 24,000 customers. 2400 sorry uh post offices uh social secretaries in belgium um all those deals are gonna fuel growth i would add also the uh social secretary deal in belgium for serving micro uh entrepreneur entrepreneurs and last but not least obviously direct direct is 18 of the retail business uh in europe With the acquisition of Prima, we're positioned, not Italy, but all of our direct platforms that are strong in Ireland, in Belgium, in France, in a strong position to leverage that expertise and the disruption they've been able to create in Italy.

Thank you, Patrick. And we go to the next question.

Next question is from Farouk Hanif, JP Morgan.

Hi, everybody. I hope you can hear me. I just want to go to Albon to understand the investment margin. So when I look at slide 41, I can see there's still a large gap between your reinvestment yield and asset book yield in P&C. And obviously your insurance finance expenses you're predicting to be a similar level to 2025. Can you talk about that dynamic going forward? So can we take the gap between asset book yield and reinvestment yield and assume that it, for example, closes over a number of years? And what is the kind of outlook for insurance finance expenses? And then allied to that, how come we've not seen the same dynamics in life? And what do you expect for life investment margin? And I just have one more question, which is, Can you, a question for Thomas, could you please explain what you mean by enhanced capital allocation? Because it's a very nebulous term. It can mean a lot of different things, but what is it you were trying to say with enhanced capital allocation in the next plan? Thank you.

Thank you, Farouk, for your two questions. And we'll start with Alban on the LIFE and P&C investment margin. I think you have clearly spotted a future potential when you think about 2026 and the next plan, but Alban will explain the detail.

Hello, Farouk. So thank you for your question. You're absolutely right. We see that as a strong opportunity for the coming years, and we do plan to close that gap between the asset book yield and the reinvestment yield. Bear in mind that we have a five-year duration on our P&C business, so that's probably the pace at which we are renewing our bond portfolio. And the amount that we invest is very much in line with what we invest every year, is very much in line with that. And we don't want to change significantly our asset allocation. And so this target is reliable, I would say. And why don't we see the same on the live side? simply because, as a matter of principle, you will see the same, because we have a difference which is even larger between the book yield and the asset yield on the live site, as you see on page 48. But as we said during the comments on the slides, Overall, life and health earnings grew at 7%. On life only, we had a significant increase in CSM release by 8%. And so we thought that it was not necessary to have our funds distribute as much as last year, so last year being 24%. So that's why you see some flattish numbers on investment income in life, but that's due more to setting money aside rather than not having better yield on our assets.

So Farouk, on the nebulous term around enhanced capital allocation, to explain it in a simple way, we obviously have plenty of growth opportunities with the exposure that we have now in commercial line in health and retirement. And so the question is for us, how are we disciplined enough on these growth opportunities to make sure that that we grow at attractive returns. And we have put up and enhanced the internal framework around how to understand these opportunities, how to understand their profitability, and how to make sure that we are allocating capital even more there where the growth opportunities are, but where we can also grow at attractive returns. I hope that makes it clearer.

And Farouk, I realize I haven't answered your full question. I haven't answered on the IFIE, the financial expenses. And they are expected to remain stable in 26 compared to 25.

Let's go to the next question. Is the gap going to widen? Really sorry to interrupt. Is the gap going to widen? So is IFIE growing at a lower rate?

If it should be stable, so not growing, and investment income in PNC should grow, given the fact that we'll have a better book yield.

As I said to you earlier, Farouk, I think there is a potential for doing better, and you spotted it. Next question. Thank you.

Next question is from Andrew Crenn, Autonomous Research.

Morning, everyone. Three questions. One follow-up from Farouk. That capital allocation discipline comment, was there any part of your business where you're thinking that potentially the returns are not high enough and that disposals would be the route forward? Secondly, could you tell us what the Sovereignty 2 ratio would be in a crisis, a sort of GFC burn-down coverage ratio? And then could you, thirdly, and you've talked a lot about it, but about more conservative reserving, could you actually enumerate in terms of what the impact was on 25 from the additional buffers you built into both P&C and LIFE?

Thank you, Andrew. I suggest that I'll take the first question. And Alban, if you could take the second one around the solvency to ratio in a GFC crisis, what's the coverage ratio? And then also the question around what do the numbers of this conservative reserving mean for 2025? So on the capital allocation discipline, Andrew, this topic is always an ongoing topic. So when we look at the question of disposal, you know we have disposed quite a lot to get our business model to a pure insurance player, but also to dispose of all the entities that we have had that were subcritical for us. This is a continuous evaluation. And so if we, going forward, see businesses where the capital allocation is not the way we want, we do not shy away from disposing it. But at the moment, we feel we are at a level where the majority of our business and the large majority of our business is in the right spot. But again, because markets are changing, geopolitics are changing, and so on, this is an ongoing evaluation. Alban, on the question 2 and 3.

Good morning, Andrew. So on our sovereignty to ratio after a crisis, to be completely honest, we have not done the calculation in a post-sovereignty to revision world. But you will remember that what we've been saying over the last years is that a GFC-like crisis would cost us 30 to 35 points. So, there's no reason to believe that that amount, that number, would change significantly after the revision. On the prudence that we have in our balance sheet, I mean, we obviously don't disclose any amount, and I think the calculation is quite simple to do when you look at our NADCAT and our PYDs on the additional amount of prudence that we could do this year compared to usual.

And not forgetting, Andrew, that certainly at Excel we have been doing this for quite some years because at Excel we always had a very clear profit target and everything that Scott and his team generated beyond went into further resource strengthening. Can we go to the next question? Thank you.

Next question is from William Hawkins, KBW.

Hello, everyone. Thank you for taking my questions. First of all, are you thinking that your tech investment spend is currently a tailwind or a headwind to the 6% to 8% EPS growth that you're delivering? I'm just trying to get clear. Do you think that you're sacrificing near-term earnings growth so you can have a better long-term earnings growth? Or are you already taking the net benefit of cost savings from your big IT budget? Secondly, please, the 17 points increase from the review in the solvency, How much of that is coming from owned funds and how much of that is coming from required capital, please? And then thirdly, in this presentation, you've dropped any reference to book value growth. I know why, but that featured quite highly in your 2024 presentation as part of a compounding value narrative. So I wonder if you could just talk a bit about how you're thinking about that metric has evolved and how you're thinking about performance management relative to that metric, please. Thank you.

Thank you, William, for your three questions. I suggest that on the first one, we let Guillaume Boury talk about it. And as you have heard already in the areas that Guillaume was mentioning about concrete cases, we are working very much on cases that have a short-term payback. When we talk about the second question, Alban, around 17 percent, what is split? And then on the third one, around the compounding of the book value, you will also get to it. Obviously, this was affected by foreign exchange, but you can give the details.

So on technology investment spend, so first technology investment spend is likely to increase in the coming years. And we are determined to do that because we are convinced indeed that we can extract gains and future earnings from an accelerated investment in AI. We have started already doing that in this plan. And as I mentioned earlier, you do see tangible effects. So it is indeed a tailwind to that extent. We gave you the tangible effect on the loss ratio in PNC, where our accelerated investment in AI has helped us improve the loss ratio by one point. On the other hand, We do acknowledge the fact that on several of those cases, profit emergence will take time. And therefore, we are extremely committed to our targets. And we know that we have other levers to improve expense ratio in order to more than offset the impact of the additional technology spend. Those other levers, what are they? Stronger efforts on procurement discipline across the board and accelerated efforts in shoring in all of our countries. Those elements are key element of our efficiency plan. And again, all in all, they will help us to more than offset the additional technology spend we need to do in order to prepare for the future and extract further earnings generation power, in particular for the next plan.

Hello, Will. On the sovereignty to review, it obviously depends a bit on the market conditions, but it's 90% to 100% EOF and almost nothing in required capital. And on your last question on book value growth, book value growth does matter to us and very much in line with what we said, as you pointed out, two years ago. So the book value growth is 1.5%. for the whole year, but as Thomas mentioned, it's impacted by FX and notably by the U.S. dollar. Excluding that impact, it would have been plus 9%, and therefore very much in line with what we want to do because we want to grow that book value number.

Thank you, Alban. Thank you, William, for your question. Let's move to the next question.

Next question is from Andrew Baker, Goldman Sachs.

Thank you for taking my questions. First one, just on the P&C top line, growth was 5% in 2025. Obviously, we've still got some FX, pricing, volume trends. How are you assuming this develops in 26? And then secondly, are you able just to provide an overview of the changes you made to your reinsurance program in 26 and any comments you're able to make on pricing and combined ratio impact would be really helpful. Thank you.

Thank you, Andrew. On the reinsurance program, we let Albon outline these changes. And by the way, to go back to Farouk's question around constant improvement on capital allocation, this is also part of it. And then on the top line, I would suggest that, look, let's have the three market heads, Scott, Patrick, and Mathieu, to give a quick view on what you think 2026 will be. So let's start with the second question, Alban, and then we go to Scott, Patrick, and Mathieu.

So, thank you, Andrew, for your question. Fundamentally, we have not changed significantly our reinsurance program for 26 compared to 25. In the arbitrage between lowering retention or attachment points and enjoying better prices, we decided to enjoy better prices. And we could see, for instance, that in property and property cut, prices for insurance for our own program were down more than 20%. So that will obviously support our earnings in 2026.

Scott, Patrick, and then Mathieu on what do you think about the P&C top line in 2026?

Yeah, I think for insurance for AXA XL, I think we're thinking 2026 is going to be in line with sort of 2025. And the reason we think that is a couple of things. One, you know, the topic of conversation has been around these data centers, and we're very excited about the opportunities facing us in the data centers. We're one of the few markets that can bring not only the construction capability ensuring the construction side, but also the operating side to it across not just property, but all the lines of business, casualty, environmental, professional lines that obviously these data centers need globally, and we can deliver that across the whole board. Obviously, we're very carefully managing our aggregations on that, but we also know that we need to be able to deliver in the local marketplace. The interesting thing for us also on those is we've invested quite a bit into our alternative energy business over the last couple of years, and that's going to become an ongoing discussion for the data centers, and we're somewhat uniquely positioned to deliver on that capability that these clients are looking for, both in engineering claims as well as underwriting. The last thing I'll say is there's also the sovereignty boost you see in Europe with respect to the infrastructure build, defense build, et cetera. Those are our clients who will be working on that over the next few years. And we actually consider that a little bit in 26, but we'll see more of that in the future as an opportunity to assist our clients as they continue to grow and build their businesses. That's actually good for us as we are an important partner to them. So, you know, we remain very optimistic about the opportunities facing us in 2026.

When it comes to Europe, we are also confident in keeping the momentum. We see this in the beginning of the year. If I take the example of retail, we're having 200,000 net new customers, so the momentum keeps going. As I said, the pricing environment remains conducive both in retail and commercial. We have those new sizable distribution partnership that will mechanically improve the growth. Again, Lloyds, Coreos, Prima. And we are working actually a lot leveraging AI to enhance cross-sell and retention in a very good quality portfolio, both in personal and commercial lines. So those are all the levers we're going to pull to keep that momentum.

And to conclude with France, we see a very good momentum. If I start with retail, we had a historical year with more than 500,000 net new contracts in retail, not only with AXA France, but also with our direct business, Direct Assurance, which is the clear leader in the digital space. And we do that similarly to what Patrick mentioned in Europe. with a very good profitability leveraging our AI-powered pricing tool. So very good momentum and very good outlook on the retail side. And on the commercial side, the current renewal campaign doesn't show any softening on our side, which is very good news. And as you know, we are very well balanced between Tide agents and brokers. So, yeah, very good outlook as well on the commercial line where we will keep applying our traditional underwriting discipline at the same time. Thank you.

Thank you, Mathieu. And we move to the next question.

Next question is from Will Hardcastle, UBS.

Morning, thanks. It's Will Hardcastle, UBS. We saw some headlines a couple of weeks ago on the potential... LLM distribution risk. I guess, how are you thinking about this risk on the retail, perhaps SME business? And where would you see the greatest risk and opportunity from a geography or line of business? Interested in your thoughts, whether you even view this as a credible risk across Europe or not. Secondly, I recognize you're hinting and you're suggesting that you've looked at the gap between NatCat discounting and PYD, et cetera, to work out that resilience build. But can you try and help us to understand how we can look to add confidence to those words? You know, whether that's resiliency build and confidence levels or a ratio you can point to. Thank you.

Thank you, Will. I suggest that Guillaume Boury is taking the first question around the LLM distribution risk. And I think what's important to see that every technological revolution will potentially bring forward new competitors. But when you look at the last digital revolution in insurance, it has more ended up... in a way that these new competitors have collaborated and partnered with the existing players. And I think that's probably what might happen here as well, but Guillaume might have even more insight. And on the second one, Alban, we need to get a bit sharper because obviously that question is coming back on the question of nut cut and PYD. Guillaume.

Thank you very much. So when we look at LLM distribution, we very much see that as an opportunity. For us, it's another distribution channel that is opening up. And we have had a long experience of strengthening our distribution footprint by entering those new opportunities as quickly as possible. This is what we have done consistently over the past 20 years with direct distribution. turning us into a leading direct player. And every time we see that as another opportunity of enlarging and expanding our reach to customers. So yes, it will transform long-term probably the way we distribute. But we believe that for us, it's a way again to gain a new channel. How do we make that happen? We have already started working on it. We are currently rolling out across all our retail operations what we call a brand tracker. It's a tool that our teams are using locally in order to identify how we are ranked in those LLMs and what we need to do in order to optimize the way we are presented in those LLMs and in the results that our customers are seeing so that more and more we are on the first rank. That's what we have done in the past with more traditional LLMs search engine optimization techniques. That's what we will do now with LLMs.

On reserves. I will answer in the following way. We design our risk adjustment so that in total, between the best estimate reserves and the risk adjustment, our confidence interval is 65%. And what we will add to that is that we have a prudent best estimate, obviously within the rules of IFRS 17, but a prudent best estimate. So in total, we are above 65% confidence interval.

Good. Thank you, Alban. We have eight minutes left and four questions, so I would suggest we try and cover them all. And I'll ask the AXA team, including myself, to give short answers. So, next question.

Next question is from Michael Hattner, Berenberg.

I'd very quickly Thank you so much. Really quick, how much capital are you allocating to your life growth? Because I've looked in detail at the slides. Apologies. But it's more now the broader topic of pensions rather than protection and unit linked by product. And then the second question on TREMA, now you own it and you've had a decent look, how much extra capacity in terms of profit or growth have you got or how much more confidence than before? Thanks.

Thank you, Michael. So we start with Prima. Patrick is going to answer the question because he's the business owner of Prima now. And then while Alban is looking for the capital allocation to the life growth, we'll get that afterwards. Patrick.

Yes, to be very specific, thanks for the question. First off, the performance in 25 exceeds our expectation. GWP is up 39% to 1.8 billion. Prima has captured 40% market share of the direct space and it's 12% market share of the motor business in Italy. Combined ratio is very solid at 85%. So at this stage, the profit at the MGA level last year was $97 million on a 100% basis. And we estimate the third-party carriers' profit addition being $60 to $70 million. So we intend to recapture this profit over time. So you can consider that it's already 110 to 120 million earnings from Prima with a 51% stake.

Perfect. Thank you, Patrick.

Alban? So, hello, Michael. On the allocation to life, first, one thing to remember is that when we say that we generate 28 points of solvency capital, that's after having funded the capital requirements for our developments, including in life. But then if we look at the breakdown of our capital by business line, life and savings is around 41%, and that's the same number as in 24. Thank you, Arban. We move to the next question.

Next question is from Dominic Homani, BNP Paribas Exane.

Hi there, thanks. It's Dominic Homani from BNP Paribas. I'll just keep myself to two, if that's okay. One is, I'm really surprised by the guidance on the insurance finance expense. I don't really understand why it's not growing more. Could you just run through why it isn't growing more? I would have expected over time, at least, the book yield would trend, you know, maybe up to the high twos or something of that level, given your business next. So is there anything you could say about why it's not growing more in 26 and what the sort of the end state would be once you've sort of watched through the whole book? That'd be great. And then just on cash and debt, Alban, I think you sort of gently hinted that you might consider using your cash position to delever. There's not much debt left coming to maturity or call in 26. Would you rule out liability management exercises? Are you more focused on deleveraging organically? and or through maturities or calls, any colour on that would be helpful. Thank you.

Both questions for you, Alba. Good morning, Dominique. So on the IFEA, I think it's very much in line with our plan. If I remember correctly, we said IFEA would grow by 800 million, and that was 600 million in the first year of the plan, then 100, 100. So between zero and 100 for IFEA next year is really what you should have in mind. And then on the cash and the deleveraging, I mean, the obvious thing to say is that, as you saw, we have some debt which has lost the benefit of grandfathering, but we still pay a subordinated debt coupon on it. And we have 2.4 billion of debts in that category. So it doesn't make sense to keep them forever, I would put it that way. Thank you, Alban. Next question.

Next question is from James Shack City.

It's your question.

James Shack, your line is open.

Okay, then we move to the next question and last question.

Next question is from Kalish Mistry, Deutsche Bank.

Oh, hi. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. So the first one is on Sovereignty 2. Obviously, we've got through the grandfathering. We've had the review out of the way. The business has reduced its risk profile and appears to be improving its prudence. when we move into the next plan, should we expect you to sort of lower that target range again, or would you stay around what you effectively guided towards for this plan? The second question is on AI and technology. I think Thomas spoke very eloquently about what you've done in that space. Just to sort of nail it down, which of

know the applications do you expect ultimately to be completed away and in which areas do you think you can hold on to the advantages thank you thank you very much so let me ask both questions i mean on answer both questions so on solvency too i mean we don't have a red target range anymore so we have a simple rule internally everything that is above 200 is good And whether it's 215, 230 doesn't really matter to us. It's just important that it's above 200. And as Albon explained beforehand, our ability with a higher solvency ratio of extracting more cash is relatively limited because that's not the driving factor, nor is the question around solvency being driven by quite a lot of future profits. We want to have a high solvency ratio, and it's important that it's above 200%. Then on the AI and technology, I would say you have two areas. One is the areas around efficiency. where you mainly draw on market-based applications, if you think about call center optimization and so on. So in this area, I would say you probably will have difficulties to keep the additional margin for a long time. And then you've got the other areas, which is very much in the pricing prevention space, where I believe that it's very much linked to your own data, your own data quality. which is obviously not a market-driven solution. And in these areas, you will have a lot of the margin that will not be competed away. And obviously, our aim is to spend most of our energy in the second part. Obviously, we have to do the hygiene piece when it comes to, you know, co-pilot and... and application development when it comes to deploying market-based software and call centers and so on. But when it comes to the question about leveraging data, that will spend most of our time and most of our money. Very last question, because it is now 30, but I heard that James is back in line. So, James.

Thank you for the opportunity. I'll keep myself to one question. And really, I just wanted to ask you about the journey around hyper personalization, particularly in retail PNC. I'm keen just to understand where you are in that personalization journey at this point. And what are the things that you see on the horizon that you're moving towards? And then if we take a more medium term view, how will that hyper personalization ultimately evolve? Thank you.

Thanks, James. That's a very good question. I mean, when you look today, probably the most advanced business we have within AXA on hyperpersonation is Prima, because they are the ones who have shown us the way, and they will also be the example that exists within AXA for the rest of the AXA group. And maybe, Patrick, if you wouldn't mind to talk a little bit about what Prima has done so it becomes a bit more clear.

uh you know uh more operational and clear for for james yes certainly so um hyper personalization for us is one of the lever we have been using to grow and grow profitably and prima exemplify this through pricing sophistication through the ability to put all the this sophistication in their rating engines they provide today a pricing that is very well adapted and very competitive to select the best risk. And they do this with models that enable to have dynamic pricing, so models that are continuously updated. That's on the pricing and growth side. On hyper-partisanization, I take your question as well. to comment on another areas where we are at this stage experimenting with very promising implementation, which is the one around how do you cross-sell more, how do you retain more customers, i.e. the right offer at the right time to the right customers. We're developing agentic CRM solutions. whereby the system collects all the info, all the situation of the customers, adapts and analyzes that, predicts the needs of the customer, and in an automated way, develop hyper-personalized emails, hyper-personalized communication. When we implement this in those markets, we're seeing uplifts that are quite remarkable, and we're going to scale that.

Thank you, Patrick. So we have to unfortunately come to the end of this very interesting exchange because obviously today other competitors of ours are also releasing and we also want to respect their timing. Thank you very much for participating and for asking your questions. We look forward to seeing you soon again and hopefully latest on the 21st of September this year when we are hosting our Investor Day in London to reveal the next three-year plan, 2027 to 2029. Thank you and have a great day.