BE Semiconductor Industries

Good morning, good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Bayse's conference call and audio webcast to discuss the company's 2025 second quarter results. You can register for the conference call or log into the audio webcast via Bayse's website, www.bayse.com. Joining us today are Mr. Richard Blickman, Chief Executive Officer and Mrs. Andrea Coop, Senior Vice President Finance. Currently, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Later, we will conduct a question and answer session and discuss, and instructions will follow at that time. As a reminder, ladies and gentlemen, this conference is being recorded and cannot be reproduced in a whole or in part without permission from the company. I would like to remind everyone that on today's call, management will be making forward-looking statements. All statements other than statements of historical facts may be forward-looking statements. Forward-looking statements reflect Bayes' current views and assumptions regarding future events, many of which are by nature inherently uncertain and beyond Bayes' control. Actual results? may differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements due to various risks and uncertainties, including but not limited to factors that are discussed in the company's most recent periodic and current reports filed with the AFM. Such forward-looking statements, including guidance provided during today's call, speak only as of this date. and BASIE does not intend to update them in light of any new information or future development, nor does BASIE undertake any obligation to update the forward-looking statements. I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Richard Flickman.

Thank you. Thank you all for joining us today. For today's call, we'd like to review the key highlights for our second quarter and six months ended June 30, 2025, and update you on the market, our strategy, and the outlook. First, some overall thoughts on the second quarter and the first half year 25. Basie reported the second quarter revenue, operating income, and net income of 148.1 million, 43.5 million and 32.1 million euros respectively. Revenue and operating results were at the midpoint of prior guidance in a mainstream assembly equipment market still affected by soft demand for mobile and automotive applications. Market development in Q2 this year was also affected by increased customer caution due to global trade tensions. Q2, 25 revenue and operating income grew sequentially by 2.8% and 10.7%, respectively, as we saw an increase in shipments to Asian subcontractors for AI-related data center applications, combined with a 4.3% decrease in sequential operating expenses. Orders for the quarter decreased by 3% versus the first quarter, as weakness in mainstream computing and mobile applications was partially offset by new orders for Basie's DCB-NEXT system. For the first half year, revenue of 292.2 million euros decreased by 1.8% versus the first half last year, reflecting broader assembly market trends as weakness in mobile and, to a lesser extent, automotive end markets will significantly offset by growth in hybrid bonding systems revenue, which more than doubled versus the first half last year. Orders decreased by 17% due to the timing of customer orders for hybrid bonding systems and a lack of new product introductions in high-end smartphones. The first half 25 operating and net income decreased by 8% and 16.2% respectively versus the first half last year, primarily due to lower revenue and a 2.7 point reduction in gross margin from a less favorable product mix. At first, net Forex effects from the decline of the U.S. dollar versus the Euro and increased interest expense related to basic senior note issuance in July last year. Liquidity remained strong with cash and deposits 490.2 million euros at the end of June 2025, increasing by 90.6% versus June 30, 24. The sequential decrease in cash and deposits at quarter end reflected the timing of the annual dividend payment along with the purchase of our Darwin Netherlands facility for 14.9 million euros. As of June 30, 25, 72.2 million euros of the current 100 million share repurchase authorization has been used to repurchase approximately 644,000 ordinary shares at an average price of 111.96 euros per share. As of June 30, 25, Basie held approximately 2 million shares in treasury, equivalent to 2.5% of shares outstanding. Next, I'd like to discuss the current market environment and our strategy. Tech Insights currently forecasts assembly market growth of 9% in 25, which is below last quarter's forecast of 13%. driven by a pushout of the anticipated mainstream assembly upturn to the second half of this year. Anticipated growth 25 is focused primarily on AI and data center logic and memory applications. They expect cumulative growth in the 26-29 period of 63%, based on continued advancement in AI use cases. new product introductions in 26-28 period, and a cyclical recovery of mainstream assembly applications. We expect to exceed market growth rates given our leadership position in advanced packaging. We believe the outlook for Basie's business in the second half of 2025 has improved in recent weeks based on customer feedback and order trends subsequent to quarter end. Extended CAPEX budgets for AI infrastructure have been confirmed by each of the leading industry players in recent quarters with new use cases emerging in cloud and edge computing along with co-package optics. Advanced packaging is one of the key ways to achieve AI systems differentiation, develop innovative consumer edge AI devices and provide the most energy efficient data center performance. Advanced packaging demand for AI applications remains strong given new device introductions expected 2026 to 2028 period. We believe we are well-positioned in the fastest-growing advanced packaging market segments, including data centers for Tonics AI-enhanced PCs and mobile devices and EV slash autonomous driving. As such, orders for hybrid bonding systems are expected to increase significantly in the second half 25 versus both first half 25 and second half 24. In both advanced logic and HBM4 memory applications, as customers advance their technology roadmaps for new product introductions in 26 and 27. Customer interest in our TCnext system for both memory and logic applications has also expanded significantly. TCnext cycle times have improved with shipments anticipated in Q4 this year from orders received in the second quarter this year. We also anticipate increased orders for 2.5D advanced packaging systems for AI-related data center applications from both global IDMs and Asian subcontractors. In addition, there are early signs of a recovery in our mainstream assembly markets, principally related to increased demand by Asian subcontractors for high-end mobile applications and high-performance computing applications for consumer markets. Now a few words about the guidance. For the third quarter 2025, we anticipate that revenue will decline by approximately 5 to 15% versus the second quarter of this year based on the order book at quarter end. However, orders in the third quarter 25 are expected to increase significantly on a sequential basis due to increased demand for hybrid bonding 2.5D advanced packaging applications. Basis gross margins is anticipated to decline to range between 60 and 62%, in the third quarter due to the adverse impact of a 12% decline in the value of the US dollar versus the Euro in the first half of 25. Operating expenses in the third quarter are expected to be flat, plus or minus 5% versus the second quarter, despite increased R&D spending. That ends my prepared remarks. I would like to open the call for some questions. Operator.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are now ready to take your questions. If you wish to ask a question, please press key pound five on your telephone keypad. We kindly remind you that you are limited to one question and a follow-up. If you wish to withdraw your question, please press key pound six on your telephone keypad.

Next question comes from Nigel Van Putten from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Hi. Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for additional color on the expected hybrid bonding orders. So if I sum this up, second half is going to be stronger than both the first half of 25 and the second half of 24. That's helpful. Can I just Tees, you want to ask, what about the first half of 24 when you received a sizable order from one customer? Should we think similar ballpark, higher, lower? Any additional color will be helpful. Thanks. And I have a follow-up.

Well, that's always hard to tell. It's usually orders in sequence, in lumps, as they call it, quarter by quarter. But it can be somewhat higher or somewhat lower. So what has been the trend so far? The highest we received was 26 from one customer in one quarter. And then typically somewhere between 12 and 20 in other historical, let's say, order patterns. But we also mentioned we don't expect from only one customer. other customers, but those are not bigger volumes. They are below five orders systems at a time. So your question is a very good one, but that leads to in summing that up somewhere in that range. But what is more important is that we also see continued adoption in more applications in logic, but also now an ever more serious commitment in the stacking of memories, the HBM4, also confirmed publicly by the Korean companies. And that could also lead to orders which we have no clear visibility yet in respect to the intended volumes.

That's really helpful. I have another question on the order book of, you know, you reported in the second quarter of 25. The orders out of China and the rest of Asia are picking up, but the rest of the world, including Europe and the U.S., dropped quite significantly. Now, if I'm not mistaken, that's usually driven by two U.S. customers, one in mainstream compute and one in mobile, and you highlighted as much in your prepared remarks. But considering some worries in the market about especially that mainstream compute customer, should we expect – this to remain at a lower level going, you know, into the rest of the year, or maybe even next year? Like, is there any additional quality you could provide? Because, yes, we both understand, yeah, I mean, I understand that conditions and especially mobile hasn't really picked up, but it is, I think, one of the weakest orders intakes from that region in a while. So, any color will be helpful, thanks.

Yeah, to add to your observation, In Europe, it's very much related to automotive industry being soft. But there are some early signs of some recovery for new products mainly. But Europe is for that reason low. U.S. clearly two big drivers. One, the compute. And the other one, the mobile, but there's also other customers as we know. But the one you're referring to, which starts with an I and ends with an L, yeah, we all know from daily publications that the situation is pretty unclear. One would expect based on similar situations in the past with companies in our industry that the outcome will be a continuation with the high end, with the applications which also are next generation technology. And you may expect less investment, and we already see that, in the more mature and certainly the lower end products. involved in that second category already for many years. Our engagement is more at that forefront. So we are anxiously waiting and we're working day and night with that customer to see how the next round will be organized. For the time being, CapEx is very low. That's also publicly known, which may at some point turn because the demand for semiconductors doesn't change. On the mobile front, as we explained, for the outlook we see certainly demand for new features in next generation devices. where we are clearly involved, which is very positive, that this year is a soft year so far. It's also clear it's maybe a bit longer than what we had in previous cycles for high-end smartphones. Maybe that also has to do with the last peak in 21, so a longer-lasting, let's say, digestion of the features at that time. But there's a whole list which is publicly shared of features expected in next-generation high-end phones, and that should be market next year, where you see always initial development year before. Okay. Thanks, Rick. Next question.

Next question comes from Sandy. Next question comes from Morgan. Please go ahead. Please go ahead.

Hi, Richard. Just a quick question on your TC orders and the customer base there. I mean, you announced some in Q2 and you're going to ship them later this year. I mean, I guess they are part of that improvement in orders that you expect in the third quarter. I mean, how broad is the customer base there and is this going to be a significant contributor to your orders and the sales? later this year or early next year. And I have a quick follow-up as well.

It's slightly different than what is in your mind. So we did receive from that customer in the second quarter a nice order for five systems, 20 million plus. And as we indicated, the shipment is expected Q3, Q4. probably at the end of Q3, and it depends a bit on how the buy-off evolves, whether we are able to ship in Q3 or whether Q4. That's why there's this range in revenue between 5 and 15% less than Q2. Next, orders from that customer. may be expected after installation of these five lines and successful product launch. As we indicated earlier, it's for a memory application. And that could then lead to orders probably earliest Q4, but maybe more realistic in Q1. And that can be a sizable expansion. Then we are gaining traction with this TC system because, remember, it's developed for the next generation below 20 micron bond bed pitch. The world today is somewhere around 30, 35 micron as we understand. And that finds its way into the logic space. There's data available published by IMEC in Belgium on our equipment which, even successfully has bonded devices with bond pet pitches below 10 micron. So that fills the world between the inevitable hybrid bonding shift and extension of the reflow process in a TC technology for the next many years to come. So successful. So far, in both, because remember, the development started for logic to be ready below 20 micro and then being tested already for stacking memories, and this will be for HBM4 probably, 3 and 4, because the system offers significant as we explained in the Capital Markets Day details. So I welcome you to look at that if you are interested in more details. But that's roughly the TC roadmap.

Thank you, Richard. I mean, just quickly on following up on your hybrid bonding roadmap, I mean, there's this one memory customer who is looking at hybrid bonding roadmap. for the HBM4 and beyond HBM4 Plus or whatever. I mean, where is that in terms of, you know, qualification? Because that is, I think, at the moment, simply a pilot line. There is no production planned yet. So is that on track, you see, or is it too early to say?

Number one, it's on track. And number two, if you follow the news in the last few days, it is both. stepped up by the major Koreans, the two, that they will have these hybrid versions available for customer sampling because simply the customers drive this demand. So that is in line with the roadmap. We have understood 26 qualification and mainstream production towards the end and also certainly in 27. That is how the roadmap for HBM today hybrid bombing looks like. So developing in a certainly a positive way.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next question comes from Didier Semama from Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Hi, Richard. Thank you for asking my question. I've got two questions. First question on, let's say, your main advanced packaging customer for logic customers. I think you mentioned that they opened or they are about to open a second factory, which would need about 100 systems at full capacity. Given what you told us today in terms of order intake that should be meaningfully above, you know, in the second half, has your confidence that that factory will ramp in line with what you thought? I think you were thinking like it would take two years to fill in the gap. Has that confidence strengthened, or is it still more or less the same as it was at the CMT?

Well, if you look at the recent publication of the financials from this customer, you could expect that that timeline is intact. There are no negative signals. We understood. In addition to that, the global demand is the global demand. And with the issues with the U.S. customer currently, as discussed in the previous question, it could well be that the beneficiary of that is with the other customer. But that's all to be seen. Key is that the adoption is continuing and also gaining pace. On the other hand, TC Stretch is also in place as we discussed also to the earlier question. There is no reason to answer your question in this way to have in one month's time a different roadmap. It's more a positive confirmation as we read it than in another perspective.

Okay, perfect. My second question is on gross margin. So, Richard, I mean, just help us understand a little bit what happened in the gross margin this quarter and maybe just give us your thoughts as to whether you will take any actions to improve the cost structure in COGS or how we should be thinking about gross margin. into Q4, into next year? Should it go back to the 62 to 64 or even like the higher level that you were thinking about at the CMB?

Well, there are two aspects which are key to gross margin, as we know very well. Number one is pricing power. And pricing power in a world which is, let's say, continued in, let's say, a softer mode is what it is. You can only distinguish yourself by better, yeah, let's say specs and cost of ownership. That's the way you succeed on the top line. On the cost side, it's a never-ending battle and a very positive one where on the one hand we are successful because it's a buyer's market. On the other hand, with the development of the dollar as it did in the past four months, it is very hard to translate that immediately into, yeah, let's say least effect. But if we look at it what happened so far that we more or less, have between 2 and 3 percent effect of a dollar which has declined by more than 12 percent. That still tells you that the first reason, the product positions allow that we adjust our prices which are in euros because we're a euro based company to, yeah, different exchange rates. And to say that again, your profit is in your cost. So everyone is extra challenged. How can we improve our operating models for every one of our systems to improve those margins over time?

Okay, I think the cost margins are going to go up then.

Well, that depends on two things. Number one, do we maintain the product position, and does the dollar finally settle? But we'll ensure that together at DDA.

Yeah, absolutely. All right. Thanks so much, Richard.

Thank you. Any next question?

Next question comes from Madeline Jenkins from UBS. Please go ahead.

Hi, Richard. Thanks for taking my question. So I just have a few on the new flip chip tool that you announced for your CMD. I'm just kind of wondering when you're expecting to see the order ramp from this. And, you know, the comments you made about improving 2.5D demand, is this more a kind of a share gain or is this actual kind of capacity being added? That would be interesting. Thank you.

Well, that's an excellent question. Number one, it is not based on the new system. This is, well, it's not old, but it's the top in the world, and we have, and we said that in earlier calls, and very high market share for these 2.5D, which are mass refloat. And that is, yeah, continuing. So whether we gain share, I think we will, because it is, it's also broad, as we explained. It's not only one customer. It's many subcontractors who are all tooling up. And they select our systems, which is also perfect. But then the new system, which you refer to, is going to be launched Q1 next year. It will have tighter specs then. The current systems are somewhere in the three micron accuracy space. The new one is one micron accuracy. It also has other options. It's called Flex because you can, the customer can handle more device types. It's a bit a combination of an MMA and a flip chip, but we explained some details in the CMD, but we're happy at another moment to show you some more details. That will, that offers, further expansion of market share, because that's all directly tied to these 2.5D modules, which is the way forward. So, yeah, that's what it is.

Perfect. Thank you. And just, I guess, a follow-up on that. Is this also a tool that could be used in sort of high-end mobile applications? And, you know, when Apple changed their packaging, is this something that could be inserted. Thank you.

Exactly. So it is for you could say chiplet type of architecture and also two and a half D, so stacked versions, which gives the customer more ability to combine different to be placed and also components. So that fits exactly in those categories, in the real mainstream high volume consumer and products. In other words, whether that is mobile or edge AI mobile, edge AI probably in other portable devices, that's where it's intended for. And at the same time, don't forget the glasses, the Google glasses, but also others, That also has a very strong focus.

Perfect. Thank you, Richard. Thank you, Madeleine.

Next question comes from Martin Jungfleisch from BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.

Yeah. Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions up, too. The first one is mainly on the expected orders you were talking about. So, can you just confirm that these orders or some of these orders have already been signed in early Q3, or is there an expectation that these will be signed in Q3 or Q4? That is the first question. I will follow up.

Well, certainly, we have received already orders until date in Q3 and as was mentioned in one of the sentences, it also accelerated from the first day of the quarter. So customers decided not to place in Q2 but to place in Q3. So some of it you can qualify as being ordered in Q3 which may have been ordered in Q2. But anyway, it certainly is abroad, as we said before, for many applications. And that should be significantly higher than the second quarter orders.

Okay. Thanks. Just a follow-up question on the Q3 guidance and the four-year. For Q3, you're expecting revenues to decrease quarter on quarter, but at the same time, you're also saying you're seeing early signs of recovery in the mainstream business. So how should we think about the seasonality of the mainstream business now for the next quarters, given that signs of the early recovery? Is that something different than over the past couple of quarters or past couple of years now?

Well, the emphasis is on AI and very careful certain areas like automotive, for instance. It does not further decline. You see some improvements. Same with high-end smartphones, which was very soft until . So you see a pattern. which may be similar to 2019 where we had a pickup towards the later part of Q3 which now may be a bit earlier coming out of a downturn and that then if all goes well and Tech Insights forecast should lead to a higher growth in 2026. That is what you could, let's say, analyze as a signal trend. But today, there's a lot more in the world happening, which makes this uncertain. On the other hand, people expect that by that time, we should have some more clarity. But anyway, your guess is mine. Okay.

Makes sense.

Thank you. Thank you.

Next question comes from Charles Shi from Needham and Company. Please go ahead.

Richard, I have two questions. Maybe the first one, you talked about the HCM-related hybrid bonding orders seems to be improving into Q3, and you talked about some of the recent news out of Korea. Based on our understanding, you do have a couple tools of the install base at two of the HDM customers. You guys have made very, very significant progress there. But I think the burning question for me and obviously for a lot of investors, is any progress is with the HVM leader in hybrid bonding? And are they still in the face of testing mainly in Singapore? And when do you think that you can ship an evaluation system to that HVM leader? Thank you.

Well, excellent. And you're absolutely right. That is a very important development to watch in this quarter. Number one, which is encouraging, is supposedly they have shared at a conference that hybrid bonding readiness is for them a must because their customers are demanding a hybrid bonded version. Then we know that and we've been developing this on an ongoing basis, that traction is gaining at the others. So, as I said earlier, it is according to what we expect in our beautiful roadmap since about four years, all focusing on further adoption in 25-26 and then having production devices available towards the end of next year and certainly in 27. That roadmap is what we hear. The activity around that is increasing and has increased this quarter significantly. And that's also in line with the publications. So, basically as part of that whole development, the only question is how much share will we be offered? Will this be, yeah, a major? Are we the process of reference or somebody else? We don't know yet. But we are in a good position. The data we can achieve is very solid. process window is increasing, so that looks promising.

Thanks, Richard. So maybe the second question I want to ask a bit more about the mainstream business. I think your first class, revenue is, I mean, yes, it's down a little bit versus first half 24, but largely flat. Let's call it flat. But you are saying hybrid bonding revenue doubled from the first half 24 level. Obviously, we don't know the hybrid bonding revenue baseline from first half last year, but it kind of implies a very big decline. In the mainstream business, in first half 25, my math is telling me it's down 20% from a year ago. And if that number is right, your mainstream business is basically back to the 2019 level. Is it right or is it that bad for the mainstream business in first half 25? And we really want to know, like, how bad the mainstream is. So, you know, the thing is, today maybe it will become good news tomorrow, but We really want to know. Yeah.

Well, that's absolutely right. For certain areas, you're spot on. The industry and look at automotive is a beautiful example. Look at our key customers in that area. The world is not growing in that area. But then, yeah, let's be very positive about the development in the new area. So, yeah, you can also say it in this way. If we would not have the successful advanced packaging AI, the numbers would look different. Yes, certainly. But is that a concern going forward? We don't think so because if you look at our margins, still the new submicron business compared to the conventional business is still much smaller. So also the conventional business for new device development, whether it's in the lead frame world or whether it's in the substrate world, look at the flip chip success in many applications. Yeah, it's at low levels, but it, they're very, yeah, successful new product launches, which should be increased in volume in the next round.

Maybe, Richard, just really want to confirm, is the mainstream really down 20% young year in the first half, 25, or higher or lower?

Well, we haven't figured out those numbers in detail, but it could well be somewhere around that. Thanks. Chinese subcontractors were very low as well, so I would have to calculate to give you a precise number, but as a trend, certainly the case.

Yeah, thanks, Richard. That's all from me.

Thanks, Charles. Any last question?

Next question comes from Martin Morandon from AutoBHF. Please go ahead.

Hi, thanks for taking my question. The first one is on the mainstream business. I just wanted to know what do you think the next upturn will look like for the mainstream business and notably for mobile? Because in the past, I mean, we saw Quite a brutal growth in the upturn, you know, growth like 50% to 60% sometimes for the mainstream business. But maybe the pace of innovation in the mobile space has slowed down a bit to some extent. But at the same time, we see new AGI functionalities, new type of chiplet packaging, et cetera. So do you think the next upturn for mobile will look like the previous ones?

Well, it's also a very good question. Usually with an extended downturn, the pattern is that the expected upturn is also lowered. We see that right now with Tech Insights numbers, which we shared, that they lowered, of course, what happened this year so far, and then they lowered the forecast for next year. that always is following that same trend. And when the tide turns, you will see the opposite. You will see on the one hand a new product launch success, but then you also have sort of catch up investment around because not everything is new. and which is then unexpected. But that's typically how this industry works. So you have to analyze these cycles from the start to next start through a cycle, how that forecasting develops. And it's very interesting that at the end, people start to look ever more dark to whether this is growth industry at all. But somebody mentioned 19. I did also myself, I think. You had a similar sort of, but then, yeah, we had the abnormality of a COVID. Whether this time we will have an abnormality, who knows? But that, historically, we have this nice slide going back to 2006. you have these movements, 50 up, 50 plus down, is what happens.

Okay, very helpful. And I have a quick follow-up on silicon photonics. Whether you think for the next couple of years, let's say, that the market, the addressable market for BASIC would be bigger for flip chip or for hybrid bundling tools? Because we know that hybrid bundling will be addressing the switches, notably, but flip chip may be the addressable market is bigger in terms of products because it's transceiver pluggables, et cetera. So what do you think would be the bigger market for BASIC?

If you look at it today, you're absolutely right, flip chip is the bigger market, and that could very well be continuing for the next one, two years, but then when dimensions decrease, you will certainly move to hybrid bonding specs. And that is also developing very positively for us. So you have the one that, yeah, the two applications, and one is the co-practical TICS, which is still a bit further out, and you have the connectors, where we are involved since over a decade. Thanks, Martin.

Next question comes from Tim Schultz-Melander from Rothschild and Co. Redburn. Please go ahead.

Hi there. Thanks for taking my questions. I had two, please. Maybe just the first on the Gen 2 hybrid bonding tool. I think there was some talk that maybe it could be a kind of September-type timeframe, so maybe just kind of six weeks away. And I just really wanted to think about that timeline. Might that cause customers to delay order placement or is the tool eval and sort of industrialization timeframe sort of long and that it doesn't disturb near-term demand and then have a follow-up, please?

Well, excellent. We have always, let's say, qualified this first tool as a development tool. it will take at least nine months after shipments, probably a year before the tool has been qualified to use in production. So cannibalizing or changing is not foreseen in a year, but what, if you look at, That second generation has two main targets. Number one is to be able to place even preciser than we place today, so from 100 to 50 nanometers. But then also, and that's because it's also named Generation 2, explained in the CM Capital Markets Day, Because of the design and also the dynamics and the balancing, et cetera, the machine should run with a larger process window, so a higher throughput, so reducing ultimately the cost of ownership. The cost of the machine is certainly higher than that of generation 1 plus, the 100 nanometer. But that challenge we will face, which is a very positive challenge, hopefully, once this system is becoming in the stage where it is production qualified. So we will find out and we will share in the next quarters the progress. Shipment probably early October. Whether it's late September, don't know yet, but you can see it on the floor. So it's getting there, but it's a real milestone in higher accuracy and especially because of stability, higher throughput.

Awesome. That's really, really helpful. And then maybe just one quick housekeeping one. I think in response to Didier's questions, you talked about Euro pricing, but you also talked about FX impacting on margins. Apologies if I missed it, but could you just maybe just help me sort of understand maybe the magnitude or what the mechanics are for Q3, or if I just misunderstood the pricing currency. Thank you.

Well, we are, of course, in a dollar world. The semiconductor industry, by definition, is a dollar world. Our business in the same way. So we set standards. prices because we're a Euro-based company. In price, in Euros, we offer that to customers and there's also always this close when the exchange rate varies at time of ordering by plus minus to another percent, an adjustment is being requested. And that usually, let's say, because the swings are not that big, that usually can be organized. With the big swing we have had in negative sense for the dollar in the past four or five months, that has caused some delay in that process. So customers have a certain price for a machine in their budgets, in dollars, and that price has to be increased. Since we are in a specific, equipment business, these are not standard machines, only part of it, based on many criteria but also competition facing exchange rate issues, that settles at some point. And we have to be a bit smarter to build better machines and at lower cost. So that was my discussion with DDA.

Got it. That's very clear. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Well, that brings us to the end of the poll or is there one final question?

There are. No more questions currently. We can now hand over for closing remarks.

Thank you very much. And if there's any further questions, don't hesitate to contact us. Thank you for attending. Bye-bye.