Cts Eventim Ag & Co Kgaa

Good evening to everybody, and good morning to our participants from the United States. Welcome to CDS Eventim's earnings call for the first quarter of 2026. Thank you very much for joining, and I sincerely hope that you can understand me well. I'm Roland Wilms, as mentioned, Chief Financial Officer of CDS Eventim, and I'm delighted to take you through our first quarter results today. On my side is Marco Heckermann, our Vice President, Investor Relations and Corporate Development and Strategy. Hello, everyone. Before we dive into the details, please allow me a brief word on the structure of the call. As usual, today we will focus exclusively on our Q1 2026 financial results and performance. I will walk you through the headline numbers, segment results, and certain P&L drivers. And at the end of the presentation, we will be happy to open the floor for your questions. Let me start with the headline KPIs for Q1 2026. In summary, we keep on growing. Group revenue came in at Euro 630 million, up 23% versus Q1 2025. This reflects a robust start into the year. Adjusted EBITDA grew by 18.5% to Euro 119 million. And our EBIT grew by 23.7%, benefiting from the operational leverage of our platform. On retail ticket volume, we recorded 39 million tickets broadly on prior year level. The slight decline reflects an effect on our business, and I will dive into this later in more detail. GTV grew by 3.3% on a last 12-month basis, reflecting continued platform scale. And EPS for the quarter stood at Euro 0.66, up 0.18 versus Q1 2025. Again, a positive development. The first quarter of 2026 demonstrates that we are continuing our course of profitable growth. And the start of 2026 is worth mentioning, was within our expectations. The next slide shows the historical Q1 trend with consistent and compounding growth over the past years. As already mentioned, group revenue grew by 23% to €630 million this quarter, a steady per quarter growth since 2023. Also, adjusted EBITDA grew from 100 to 190 million, representing, as mentioned before, a growth by 18.5%. Again, there is a steady and robust growth trajectory since 2023. In Q1 2026, the adjusted EBITDA margin comes out at 19.4%, compared to 21% in Q1 2025. Please note that this does not represent a structural deterioration of our margin. but is solely a weighted mix effect of the two segments. Live entertainment accounts for a larger share of the group's revenue compared to the previous year, and live entertainment margins are structurally lower than ticketing. On EBIT, the outperformance in Q1, 2026, where this prior year is also notable, this operational achievement reflects the quality of our earning space. Let's have a closer look into our ticketing business. In Q1 2026, the ticketing business continued its growth trajectory, delivering revenue above prior year. As reported in our last earnings call, we had a structural change in one of our partner business contracts, becoming a partnership based on retail ticket allotment. This was our contract with Stage Entertainment. Taking this effect into consideration, ticketing came out on a like-for-like basis in Q1 2026 at about plus 6%. Adjusted EBITDA in Q1 2026 was slightly above prior year. The adjusted EBITDA margin roughly on previous level. Both EBITDA and EBITDA margin are in line with our internal expectations. As we started with our operational excellence program, Q1 was about building capabilities and talent, which we consider an important first step. Although this temporarily leads to higher costs now, this will be compensated by future efficiency gains. Like-for-like EBITDA in Q1 2026 has outgrown the reported EBITDA performance of just plus 1% and develops in line with the above-mentioned like-for-like revenue growth. To sum up, ticketing remains our high-quality earning stream, and Q1 reaffirms its resilience. Reacher ticket volume. On retail ticket volumes, Q1 2026 delivered 39 million tickets compared to 40 million tickets in Q1 2025. A modest decline. This is mainly attributed to the structural change in our partner business in Q1 2026 as explained before. Two-thirds of the ticket volume are generated outside Germany. A significant milestone reflecting the successful internationalization of our platform and reflecting our mode in Europe. Putting everything together, the volume softness in Q1 2026 is due to the explained one-time effect and not a demand signal and especially not the result of increased competition. Turning to our live entertainment segment. Live Entertainment delivered a strong performance in the first quarter. Strong, but within the expected range. Revenues went up to €404 million compared to €292 million last year. An increase of well over 30% and surpassing prior years as shown in the chart. Adjusted EBITDA came out strong too. Euro 29 million compared to Euro 12 million in Q1 2025. The margin expanded to 7.2%. This improvement in our live entertainment business reflects two factors. First, a strong portfolio of shows in Germany and the United States. And second, a growing contribution from our venue business to be detailed on the next slide. Let's now dive into our venue business as an integral part of our flywheel strategy. Venue management maintains an important and high-quality earnings stream. With revenues at Euro 40 million and an adjusted EBITDA of Euro 18 million, Margins creep structurally stable and are very much comparable to the margins we generate in our ticketing segment. Worth mentioning in this context is the following. After hosting the Olympic ice hockey tournament in February with about 400,000 visitors, the Unipol Dome in Milan opened for music concerts in May this year. The Milan Arena contributes therefore already to the operational results and is a meaningful addition to our high margin venue portfolio. Last but not least, let me walk you through the P&L bridge for Q1 2026. In addition to the adjusted EBITDA of €119 million, which I have already explained in detail, we were able to report a positive financial result of approximately Euro 9 million. The change of around 13 million compared to the previous year is primarily attributable to favorable exchange rates effects. Taking all this together, the EU APS amounts to Euro 0.66, showing an increase of Euro 0.18 per share versus last year. Again, this reflects the combination of both operational momentum and an improved financial result. To sum up and what to take away from today's call are the three following things. First quarter of 2026 is in line with our expectations and we remain positive for the remainder of the year. We have seen solid organic growth on group level, live entertainment, and ticketing on a like-for-like basis. And thirdly, the operational excellence program has started and marks the key for 2030 ambitions. That concludes our remarks for Q1 2026. I hope this has been insightful for you.

many thanks for attention operator let's jump into the q a please open the line now thank you very much and with pleasure the questions are already coming the first one is from edward vivian rothschild and co please over to you um hi william hi marco thanks for taking my questions um i have two if that's all right um so first

I just want to come back to something I asked for your results. So two of the most common pushbacks we tend to hear from investors on this stock are one, AI disintermediation risk, and two, intensifying competition from your main US competitor in Europe. So could you maybe walk us through how you're positioned on both of those and how you'd want investors to think about them? And then my second question was just on mobile ticketing. It's been discussed in the past as a pretty attractive margin leaver for the ticketing business, but maybe you could give us an update on where the strategy and rollout sit today. Thanks.

Yes, it's Marco. Let me start off, and then I add William, and he can conclude. So starting off with our friends in North America, I mean, we all know it's a great company. Michael Rapinoe has done a terrific job, basically, in building U.S. live entertainment over more than a decade. And yes, but on the other side, when a company of this scale faces that kind of structural uncertainty at home, international growth narratives of course serve a dual purpose for them. They are a genuine business activity, and they are also a signal to investors and regulators that growth can continue regardless of how the legal domestic situation resolves for them. So we understand this completely, and we think investors or the capital market should weigh LifeNation's European ambition accordingly as a capital deployment option driven partly by domestic constraint, not solely by European opportunity. So the critical question for us is, does that constrained and partially defensive internationalization represent a meaningful threat for us? And the answer is no. And let me now strip out a little bit more why we're convinced that this is a big no for us. So in Europe, primary ticketing is a relationship and compliance business. Venue operators and promoters in Germany, Italy, Austria, Switzerland, Benelux, Spain, and France, they are not switching systems. because of Live Nation's undisputable, very strong position in the United States. These customers, they are evaluating reliability, regulatory compliance, commercial terms, and platform capability. And on all these dimensions, we are the incumbent in Europe. And incumbents in this industry are rarely displaced without a contractual or technological discontinuity. And to be honest, we don't see any of this on the horizon. William?

Do you have anything? Yeah, let me perhaps close with the forward framing. First of all, we will present to all of you a detailed view of our competitive positioning and our growth architecture at the Capital Markets Day. Here it is to say that we will announce the date very, very soon. What I, however, would like all of you to take away is the following. The structural table and European life entertainment are strong. our ticketing segment is compounding at record levels. And as Marco outlined, the regulatory, and I could also say perhaps the reputational pressure on our principal global competitor is, if anything, an accelerant for our European growth and consolidation thesis and not a headwind. So all in all, we are therefore very, very confident with respect to our structural mode in Europe, and we see this

untouched so and then let me follow up with the AI part yeah and I mean everyone knows that that we all hold this industry very dear to our heart and so let me start with a little bit of an intro before we come to more clearer specifics yeah So, I mean, one thing is very sure, life will always be life, right? A concert is not a product that can be digitized, automated, or replicated by any technology, including AI. When thousands of people come together in the same room for the same performance, they are participating in something categorically irreplaceable. in my belief and in our belief as a company and this is not a some kind of nostalgic observation it's really a structural fact that underlines our entire business model and our confidence in the long-term growth of this industry not only in europe but globally yeah ai generated music on the other side is a real thing and it's growing yeah and we view this not really from that perspective where the market tends to look at it as a source of fear and concern, we look at it from an opposite perspective because what is happening there is that for us, it rewards authenticity, the growing content which is AI generated on the music side. The more the digital environments fill with algorithmically produced content, the more scarce and valuable the genuine art becomes. A real artist, a real stage, a real audience, communities form around true artists precisely because of shared experiences of seeing the music, forgetting all the day-to-day hassles, and this cannot be replicated by any technology. So we are, if anything, structurally positioned to benefit from this dynamic. And now digging a little bit deeper into more specifics, the question of our AI strategy becomes much clearer because we are not deploying AI to reinvent what live entertainment is, but we are deploying it to serve the entire value chain that surrounds the live experience much better with more intelligence, more efficiency, and of course, with a compounding advantage at every layer. And for example, these layers, When you look at discovery and demand generation, pricing, inventory optimization, transaction and access integrity, the whole life event operations, post-event retention. So internally, we are deploying AI across all our operations, whether it will be customer service automation, engineering productivity, internal knowledge management, as efficiency plays to primarily reduce our unit costs of serving the fan and the promoter and to free capacity for much higher value work. Sorry, I've blown out all my powder.

William, anything? Thanks, Marco. To summarize, many thanks, Marco, for what you just said. The common denominator of all of this is that AI amplifies the value of what we already have. i.e. the proprietary data, the platform scale, the European reach, the trusted relationships with artists and our promoters, and with the venues who choose us and where their success depends also on our success. And this is something which is not replaceable by AI. This is absolutely unique. So therefore, AI does not change the nature of our mode, It raises, however, its height and every layer simultaneously, as just outlined by Marco. Again, we will share further details on the AI-enabled components of our roadmap, platform roadmap, growth strategy, and our capital market day. What I would like you to take away is that the business we are in is irreplaceable by definition. The platform we have built is deeply embedded across the entire European live entertainment value chain. And AI is the tool by which we will compound that advantage. And it's not a certain variable that introduces uncertainty into it. Now, I hope this was helpful and answered the question you had. So many thanks for asking it. You had, however, a second question on mobile ticketing. Mobile ticketing is growing. We see already mid-double digit percentage as the channel of buying tickets for our customers, i.e., our fans or the fans. Many thanks. Next question.

The next question is from Annick Maas, Bernstein. Please, over to you.

Good evening. I have four questions tonight. First of all, it had a very strong start to the year, definitely better than many had expected. So why is the outlook unchanged today? The second question is, clearly this strong performance has come from live entertainment, and you've highlighted that it was US and German touring, but also the Milan venue that have contributed here. Now, I didn't see the slides, so maybe you showed this on the slides, but could you maybe just give us the buckets of how much of the contribution was due to Milan, how much due to the US touring bid, and how much due to German touring. Third question is on naming rights for Milan. Was the first quarter fully integrating naming rights, then was a full one quarter included? And then the last one is on the LA Olympics. Can you just explain us again when and how the PNL and cash flow impacts or what they're going to be with regards to the LA Olympics? Thank you.

The LA Olympics, you ask?

Yeah, the last question was on the Olympics, yes. How the PNL versus the cash flow impact is going to impact over the next quarters? Thank you.

Okay, so first a question, changing guidance. Yes, no. Yes, as you said, we had a good start, a very good start, until 2026. However, as you know, our guidance is only two months old. Please also take into account that Q1 is indeed the least relevant quarter for the full year outcome. For this reason, we reiterate our guidance for now. However, I can say we remain positive, and we will revisit this topic when we talk next time in August or later in the summer. Two, how do we expect ticketing to perform? I think that was the next question.

Actually, no, it was actually with regards to live entertainment. How much of the revenue step-up was coming from Milan, how much was coming from US touring, and how much was coming from German touring? If that could be split up.

Okay. In the first quarter, the Milan Arena is included as a margin in line with the established Köln Arena. And I would refer to the chart which we showed in terms of the split between the promoter business and venues. We don't give a split between Germany and the U.S. However, Both were very, very strong in Germany, especially with the Hans Zimmer Show. And what I could add is while the venue business continued to operate at a consistently high EBTR margin level of approximately 46%, the margin remains broadly stable year on year. L.A., you want to say something on L.A., Marco? Yeah. Hi, Annick. It's Marco.

With regards to your question of L.A. So as everyone knows, it's a three-year contract. It's a project-based business for us. So we started in 2026. It'll last and affect us in 2026, 2027, and 2028, of course. And from a scope perspective, I think it's fair to frame it over the entire year or length of the contract. as something that is about to generate, according to our expectations, a revenue of something in the low triple-digit millions with average margins we've seen in other projects like this.

Okay, thank you.

Okay.

for your questions. The next question is from Craig Abbott . The floor is yours.

Yes, good evening. I hope you can hear me. Now my first question is just getting, addressing the cash flow was quite weak in the admittedly traditionally seasonally weak Q1. I just wondered if you could give us some insights on how you expect to see that develop in the coming quarters and that in particular I'm talking about the operating cash flow. But then in the investing cash flow, I assume there were remaining Milan investments there. Could we expect then, you know, those to ease off in the coming quarters? If you could shed some light on how you expect to see the cash flow developing, it would be great. And the second question is, I just wondered if you had any update to provide on your Let's say strategy to try to find a partner or partners for a prop co-op co-type partnership for potential future venue projects. Yeah, and the third one was just if you could give us any insights on Q2, my last one, sorry, any insights on Q2, particularly bearing in mind that, you know, you had a very weak quarter last year in live entertainment with the cost of runs at several festivals. If you could shed any kind of light there to kind of help us map it out, it would be great. Thank you.

Okay, perhaps not in the order of your question. Let me start with the question on the venue structure. As you rightly mentioned, we follow a prop-go, op-go strategy. We follow the idea and we confirm the idea of an asset line structure model for the entire company. Having said this, this is work in progress, but we are in accordance with our planning. I sincerely hope more details can be shared later this year. As I mentioned in the last call and in our bilateral discussions, these are very structured or highly structured discussions and negotiations with a variety of different partners. So please rest assured, we are working on this very hard. Nothing has changed that we want to keep only a minority share in PropCo. And in other words, we will preserve the asset-light model, but we don't have a result yet which can be announced at this state. Q2, perhaps there's something to share on LA ticket sales in the sense that LA ticket sales have started in the U.S. and it has been communicated by the IOC that the first ticket drop for LA-28 was sold successfully with demand exceeding expectations by far. Having said this, this is not surprising and is part of our budget, respectively, outlook already. And more details, especially on this, will be shared then in the Q2 earnings call. Live entertainment. Live entertainment. Marco, you want to add something on live entertainment? Hi, Craig.

I'm taking the one on live entertainment. discussing this since last year of course yeah so I mean the good thing is a very good start into into this year with live entertainment and as we've already said in our full year earnings call end of March that we have done a lot of homework there yeah because as the main topic has been the performance of the festivals not particular to CGS but festivals all over the place and F we as we have said already in March that we have done some cleaning there, which should or at least gives us confidence when we come into Q2, live entertainment year over year, that we have CEO. At least, let's say we are very confident. On the other side, you know as well that so far what has been announced, the large festivals for this year, for example, Rock am Ring and Rock am Park are sold out, great lineup. So from this perspective,

To comment on current trading and what we would expect particularly for life entertainment in this second quarter Yeah, we see much more sun shining rather than rainy clouds Okay, then the last question Operating cash flow given the seasonal nature of the business we expect operating cash flow to improve significantly over the course of the year and with the strongest cash flow generation typically occurring in Q3 and Q4, reflecting the seasonal strength of the ticketing segment in the year-end period. I hope this helps, right? And we are very confident they'll provide, yeah, be very strong down operating cash flow later this year.

Okay. And on the investing cash flow, can we expect that number to come down now after Q1 with the Milan venue fully operational?

There will be certain investments still to be done, right? The final amount which we will have spent, so to speak, on the Milan Arena will be determined at the end by also the contributions from the city of Milan, but nothing in the range you have seen before. These are now, I mentioned this before, I think, in the earnings call, smaller amounts on technical equipment, microphones, et cetera. So the large, so to speak, bulk of the work, yes, i.e. the construction work, that has been done. Okay? Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Yeah.

Thank you very much. The next question is from Olivier Calvet, UBS. Please, have a tea.

Hi, William and Marco. Thanks for taking my questions. I have three, if I may. Firstly, could you come back on the retail ticket volume decline? So I understand this is partner business, but Can you maybe further specify if you include stage entertainment in the comparable period? Could you maybe rule out any element of demand softness or competitive pressure there? The second question would be on geography. If there was any noticeable impact of some of the big... slates that were announced in the first couple of months of the year on your plans for ticketing in terms of on sales and further just a follow-up on the capex you know ignoring any potential contributions from the municipality of Milan what's the remaining capex budget you will have for the year if you can comment on that that would be great thanks

Okay, perhaps first on retail ticket volumes, smallest decline, 4.4% year-on-year, as you already mentioned. Without disclosing confidential information, the retail ticket volume development year-on-year is mostly indeed staged. But what I would like to take away more importantly is that ticketing revenues are up year-on-year, which underlines the quality of our ticket volume in Q126. So the volume in itself is not necessarily therefore an indicator for the robustness and healthiness of our business. So this on ticket retail volume I would also take the question on CapEx and Marco you take the third one. Here it's a mid double digit Euro amount. I mentioned this in the last call already and as I said It's more technical equipment than anything else.

Marco, if you take the... Hi, Olivier. It's Marco. I'll take the question on the pipeline and the roster so far. I mean, so far, Q1 has been in line with previous years, so there were neither positive nor negative outliers. But I mean, there are many, many good acts still in the pipeline for the remainder of the year. But as you know, we're going to see more of that the more we enter the second half of the year. Yeah. But for now, I think it's it compares very well. And there have been neither positive nor negative outliers in the terms of big on sales across all geographies. Thanks. Okay. Okay.

Thank you very much. Moving on, the next question is from Lars von Kleff, Deutsche Bank AG.

Yes, thank you very much. Yes, thank you very much. Good evening. I would have two questions, if I may. You already mentioned that you're seeing first benefits of the operational excellence program. Would you also be willing to share the costs of the program with us and how much it, for example, has affected Q1 profitability?

You said you had two questions. What was the one?

That was the first one. And the second one was you were kind enough to share the revenue impact of the stage entertainment business that is unfortunately not with you anymore. Would you also be willing to share the impact on the profitability level with us? Or to phrase it differently, can we assume that the EBITDA margin of the business you lost is comparable to your ticketing dividend margin on average?

Okay, let me start with operational excellence. I will divide this in two buckets. First, we will provide you with what the budget is for operational excellence program with a detailed breakdown at our CMD. But for now, Q1 can be seen as a good proxy for the quarterly impact in 2026. We would say we expend so far a low single-digit million amount for operational excellence. now an investment, which of course repays back at a later stage. And as I said, operational excellence is setting the basis for accelerated growth in the years to come, especially until 2030, 2031. I hope this answers your question on operational excellence stage. Here it can be said margins are lower than the rest of the ticketing business. as already indicated in what I said before during the call.

Understood. Thank you very much.

You're welcome. Also from my side, the next question is from Bernd Clanton Barclays. The floor is yours.

Yes. Hi, William. Hi, Marco. Thanks for taking my question. Just a follow-up on the LA Olympics. You mentioned low triple-digit revenue contribution over those three years. My understanding of the relatively low ticketing revenue guidance for 2026 was partly a reflection of that one of impact from stage entertainment. But if we're kind of assuming roughly, you know, 33, 35 million or so of contribution from the LA Olympics, should that not more or less offset the hit you're experiencing from stage entertainment? And then maybe related to that, in the past, you've sometimes shared how you're thinking about underlying ticketing growth of the market and how you should grow relative to that. I think in the past, you mentioned like 6% to 8%. outside of this year, I was just wondering how you're broadly thinking about that. And then just again on ticketing, maybe to what extent do you have visibility into the rest of the year? And then my final question is, can you share any update on synergies you're seeing for France BA and C tickets? Thank you very much.

Hi Ben, it's Marco. Let me kick off. So with regards to, let's start with a more general thing. The market expectations, as you said, six to eight percent, which is of course what we see in the markets we're active in as a potential on average over the next five years. And this is of course why it's important to see that in our core business, particularly in ticketing, we have grown. Our organic growth is in line with that. On the other side, what William mentioned in the call is the quality of the tickets we have sold, which led to even better revenue growth than volume growth. With regards to the visibility, We highlighted this for the remainder of the year. We see a very good pipeline, but of course, as we don't have any control about the timing of the on-sales, it's of course hard to be more precise for us, but we see continued tailwinds for European touring, which is as well the underlying factor for the market potential we are seeing over the next five years. Coming back to LA. Yes, we've indicated what the revenue is over that timeline, and you bring the question how it affects our guidance. The important thing is, of course, to differentiate between the regular ticketing business and this being a project business where you're dependent on many other parties. For example, that here again, it is not... when and how many tickets go on sale. This is solely due to our customer here, which is the International Olympic Committee. So please understand that from this early on, we now have started selling tickets from April onwards, which all went very well. The press around this has been very positive, strong demand. This is going to be a great event. But of course, for us, it's always important that we give the guidance that we understand what is really in our control and where we have good visibility on. And here in this contract, it is, of course, completely under the discretion of our customer of how to market the event and give us the order of when to sell tickets and going forward, which surely has an impact about the timing of revenues and earnings.

Perhaps then a word on France, Korea and sea tickets. Both entities are indeed technically now integrated and we are very happy with their performance. Needless to say, UK and France are two core European markets which we will now continue to build out. Same applies, of course, to the U.S. We indeed see first synergies both on the top line and bottom line, especially local structures have been merged where we had event and seed ticket operations within the same countries. Thank you.

Thank you very much.

The next question is from Christoph Blesert, BNP Paribas.

Good evening. Thank you. Good evening. Thank you for taking my questions. I would like to come back on the stage entertainment contract. Can you please explain the structure of the old versus the new contract? Also take into consideration that stage entertainment seems to sell a certain proportion of their tickets via their own ticketing system. And if you could help us understanding potential revenue losses on URM, this would be helpful as well.

Christoph, it's Marco. Let me kick in again with a general view. And of course, this all goes under the the headline that it's a it has been a very long-term contract yeah which has been adjusted for a part of which has been insourced yeah on the more um b2b side of stage yeah whereas we continue to be their partner on the retail distribution yeah so tickets which are sold under event and brand over the eventum channels for them yeah

Yeah, perhaps to summarize, the key point is that the retail channel stays with us via Eventim.de and other details of this very close and dear partner of ours are unfortunately confidential. But if the retail, as I said before, the retail channel stays intact there.

Sorry for the confusion, but I want to make a follow-up on this. In the past, it has also been possible to buy musical tickets off stage via CTS. So what is really new?

There were basically two ways, right? Whether, for example, for the Lion King in Germany, that you go to or that you went to eventum.de and bought tickets, or whether you went to the own website of stage musicals and stage entertainment. And for that, we've signed a contract with them a long time ago to provide them with the B2B solutions, so enabling them to sell under their own brand, which at the early days was really a minor share, which over the last 15 years, of course, as they have invested into their own franchise, you know that they have been sold in 2019. As you can imagine, for an IP owner and a content company, COVID was really a dramatic situation. From this perspective, the only thing happened that The share which they are now selling, for example, the Saturday evening shows, which we could all sell from the back of a truck, this is what is now supplied temporarily by another partner. And where they really have to build on our reach, the way of how we cooperate with other promoters, because we can provide them with significantly lower customer acquisition costs for the shows that are not that easy to sell, for example, the Wednesday afternoon, this is still to be found on eventum.de and over our app.

Okay, this is clear now, thank you. Then I have two shorter questions, please. Has there been any positive effect from the Winter Olympic Games on your ticketing revenue since you won?

Sorry, no. We were just looking at one another who is replying because the simple answer is no.

And then the last one, can you give us your view on the ticketing volume growth in Germany for 26p?

Well, I mean, if I may start into this, this is, of course, part of our discussion around guidance. And of course, I mean, as I said earlier in this call, we see a very good roster of artists coming through Germany. We see continued traction, of course, on our retail channel. We benefit from more international acts coming to Europe and making stops in Germany. But again, it is hard now to be more precise on the volume because this is to 90% much more timing. question rather than anything else yeah and I don't want to sit here in a year's time and explain why someone who's been selling through eventum has not sold in December but in January so look the summary we are positive okay okay thank you as there are no more questions in the queue with that we are closing the Q&A session and I hand the floor back over to the hosts thank you very much

your time i hope or we hope this was helpful and talk to you soon and especially see you soon september october this year yeah thank you very much as well from my side have a good end of spring and a nice start into summer bye