Compagnie Des Alpes Sa

Welcome this morning for the presentation of the annual results with Alexia Cadieux, who is the financial director. Sorry, it doesn't work. Is my fluent voice enough or not? Is it good there? Does it work or not? It works. Good. So with Alexia Cadieux, the financial director, you had the statement that was sent this morning to Van Bourse. You also have the slides. So if we're going to go, if you have any questions, we'll come back. I'm going to go through the slides during. for 20 minutes, 25 minutes and with Alexia, of course. And then we will answer your questions. Anyway, you have the slides, so you won't miss any information. So, the zap. We will start right away. So, the striking effect and the key figures. So, a lot of recognition. Our capacity to innovate in our different professions is quite recognized, including in the world, with great success. We will come back to it later on the Futuroscope and the new Aquatic Park. which has obtained the two world prizes for the best water park of the year. We will come back to it and then I was going to say in a classic way and then for the third consecutive year, the recognition by the industry to be the best group of management of ski areas. but it is quite positive. But what is also interesting are the figures, since we are there for that. So there are several characteristics, you have seen results in very strong progress, we will come back to them, which are record in the three divisions of the group. Financial objectives, but also extra financial with CO2, you know that We communicate and we manage the group with the two angles, in two currencies, I would dare to say, and the euros and grams of CO2 for our activities. Continue with the acquisition of the Aquascope, I talked about it, the acquisition of the Urban Group with Urban Soccer and Urban Paddle, which is a rising business and on which we have acquired the market leader, I will come back to it, solid deposits In the ski areas, with in particular DSP renewals that took place during this exercise and a backlog, the first time we communicate, I will come back to it, that is to say the estimated turnover of our DSP portfolio which is in progress. The subject that had occupied us a little was the price of electricity. There too, we have a specific point and therefore we were able to secure. And then, of course, the commitments, the commitments and the renouncements of the group, which will also be detailed in the document, and in particular the dimension of free action attribution to the collaborator. Here are the financial objectives. Well, no surprise, we will maybe go over it quickly. We kept all our objectives, the guidance that we had given, including the revised guidance, since we gave guidance and we revised them along the way. So we are on each item, we kept the objectives, including those that had been raised. I don't know if it works. Here is the turnover, you saw it a few weeks ago, 1 billion 239 million euros in a 10% increase, mainly drawn by the ski areas and the distribution and hospitality sector, and to a lesser extent by the amusement parks. In terms of BO, it is a 14% increase. 14% includes urban. It is a very good performance, which is linked to the progression in the ski areas and the distribution of hospitality. but also in the parks, which had an adverse environment, I will come back to it, in the parks with a discipline, I was going to say, of shock on costs and on the consumption of cash. The result is to be in progress, we will come back to it later, including on the dividend. The B.O. takes up a bit of what I just said with the peak of 2022 on the price of electricity and exercise 2023. We are coming back little by little to levels. to more normal levels, even if we don't really know what normality is. And then, as I was saying, on the out-of-urban side, an EBO increase, both drawn by ski areas and by the distribution of hospitality and the cost of discipline in the leisure park part. Our CAPEX, so 262 million euros in progression, slightly lower, it's more of a cut-off problem compared to the guidance that had been given, but we remain on very important levels. I will come back to it there too. A free cash flow, you know it's our compass. So in very strong progression, I think that the preoccupation of the free cash flow is something that has ruffled and percolated at each level of the group. The stable financial leverage with a certain progression in absolute amounts linked in particular to the acquisition of Urban Soccer, which remains relatively weak financial levers in relation to our capacity. Quickly, on the operational review of the activities, this year, a business turnover of mechanical increases in progress of 13.3%. You see, both brought by a strong increase in volume of the number of ski days and then in revenue by 5.2%, 8.1% for ski days. There is an effect, without really knowing how to measure it, but of reports of the low and medium mountains which have seasons more or less complicated in terms of snowfall towards our areas which are rather As you know, from a high altitude, we had a holiday calendar that was absolutely ideal this year. And so we were able to work well. What we also observe is that between Christmas, the Christmas holidays, New Year's Day and the February holidays, this hollow that we observed tends to resolve itself to stay at quite high levels. quite important with a certain number of investments which, as always in the ski areas, are maintenance investments, slightly increasing capacity, but not an extensive growth with a superb cable car with the Pontillaz for those who know. and phase 1 of the refurbishment of the glacier chain in La Plagne, but also a number of things, and in particular a trans-arc to arc, one of the largest investments ever made, which will be inaugurated at the beginning of January. So it's continuing to level our our experience for the clients. The backlog, I was talking about it. The backlog is on September 30, 2023 and the one on September 30, 2024 with the annual turnover which is for methodological reasons here taken on budget and not realized. Permanent improvement of performance and all that we are capable of, since it is the estimated turnover post impact of climate change by management, including value improvement. And finally, the impact of renewals and extensions. We think of these VABELs, that is to say the MENUIRs. but also in Bonneval, which is the glacier of the Pisaya for those who know Val d'Isère. And so it's value, it's a non-actualized turnover, all that is detailed on it. But what shows an idea of ​​our ability to renew our DSP when they are, when these renewals take place under normal profitability conditions. And so here is a backlog that progresses by almost 8%. the figures you see them there or at least on your on your on so both the combination of the growth of the business cycle at the same time the combination excuse me with a decrease in the cost of energy. All this, which was quite high, as you know, in 2023, leads to a strong progression of the EBO. with a B.O. margin on CA for these ski areas that come back to exceptional levels and therefore not exceptional in their repetition but exceptional in their magnitude of course. We continue the contractual investments since these investments are all contractualized by construction in the context of delegation of public services. 28% of B.O. of B.O. progress is an absolutely exceptional performance. The distribution of hospitality, so this year we are with the considerable work that has been carried out. We had bought MMV, you remember, a little over two years ago. We also recovered the distribution and marketing of another operator called Téressence. And the development of our activities means that we are on a growth of two figures. Mountain Collection Immobilier is the network of real estate agencies and seasonal rental agencies in the Alps, which were previously dispatched under local brands. And now we have made the network. It is the first network of real estate agencies in the Alps. And then Travel Factory with Travel Ski. which is the operating tower on which it was necessary to refocus. We had already said it last year, this work has been launched and crowned with success since we have now prioritized the margins and unfortunately the railway offer that we launched two years ago, the carrier no longer wants to put it back in place. And so what makes the group the first manager of the ICHO of the Alps, right in front of all the other operators, it is important to say it, so we master the experience that is offered to our customers. The figures, you see, 5.5% growth in the turnover, but a very strong progression of the EBO with a 26% EBO margin which is also very significant. Industrial investments, I remind you that in this industry, globally, we never invest in the walls. And so we have very little capital engaged in the walls of the club residences, village clubs, etc. So it's more of an asset light job, but on which we master the customer experience in total. The amusement parks, a sales growth of 5.9% with Urban Soccer, 8.4% with Urban Soccer, so 5.2% on the expense per visitor, 0.4% on the volume. The year 2024 was a bit complicated, it started with the Siaran storm, a year ago, at the time of November 1st, and then an absolutely exceptional rain. In spite of that, elections, especially in France, the strategy to avoid Paris for the GOP, the elections, we will have to get used to it, I have the impression, but it is never good for our affairs, the multiplication of election Sundays. That being said, we are still in very good progress and it was especially marked by a rather drastic approach and more than disciplined on the OPEX, on the costs and so we see how we were able that we were able to continue our investments as well. This is very important, with something a little special, I will come back to it later, is that these investments, sometimes they last a year, two years, before they generate cash flow, before they enter a service. We will come back to it there too. Here are the numbers, always. So in volume, the first division of the group. We still have a small erosion of the B.O. margin and therefore a year on which we will move on to the next one quickly. And that's good, we'll say a few words about it later. since this discipline and this pluviometry, we are rather in the other direction today and the figures are similar, I would say two words about the perspectives. The results of the exercise, Alexia.

Hello everyone. Is it working? Can you hear me? I will quickly move on to the evolution of the turnover. Dominique talked about it. Comparable perimeter, you can see that we were able to maintain the operating costs at a satisfactory level. They only increased by 7.5% with the decrease in energy costs, which goes under 5% of the CA and an EBO increase of 14.6% to 351 million and an EBO margin rate of 1 point, out of non-recurrent products that played for 4 million last year. There is no impact of the integration of Urban on the margin rate of BO which is properly integrated into the group. And I will give you some tips on what is happening under the BO with the rise in the right of use of IFRS 16 linked to the fact that we do not really invest in clean and that Urban also brings back a rent charge since its model is to be asset light as well. So to give you an indication, this year the retired loans of the BO are 44 million euros, an increase of 12 million compared to last year. This gives rise to a retirement within the PNL. So once we have retired the loan charges, we find amortization and financial interest. This increase of 12 million euros between last year and this year of rent repayment, we will find it next year with increased rents due to the entry in the perimeter of the aquascape, for example, of 60 million of IFRS 16 goods also on Urban Soccer. And be aware that the financial interest charge represents about 30% of these rents. So we have an increase of 17.1% of amortization supplies at comparable perimeters. This increase will obviously continue next year, since we have capex in increase over the last few years. Other operational products of 4 million last year, although there are not this year, and therefore an operational result of 158 million in an increase of 13.3% compared to last year or 17% out of non-recurrent products. At the level of the result account, below the operational result, we have an increase in net debt cost. The net debt cost is about 3.99%. It was 3.5% in total last year. We therefore find an increase in financial interests, but also an increase in the base of our net debt, following in particular the acquisition of Urban Soccer. We also note the increase in costs linked to the IFRS 16 debt, therefore an increase of about 5 million euros and which will continue next year due to the increase in the use of rights as I have already announced. And we have partially managed to compensate the increase in our costs of financial interest by financial products and relatively interesting placements carried out this year for a total of 8 million euros. It is also important to note the increase in taxes, since we have returned to a more normative tax rate of around 25.4%, which should be back next year. Last year, we benefited from a reportable deficit, but also from a positive effect following the closure of a small branch that we still had in Canada. The equivalence rates have also increased significantly with the very good results of our equivalence rates in the mountains this year, so an increase of 1.8 million euros. Minorities are also increasing since the principal minorities are also on the subsidiaries of the ski areas and the net result by the group is therefore a slight increase of 2.3% to 92 million euros. If we now look at the variation table of the net debt and the composition of our free cash flows, we have a free cash flow of 80 million this year with a strong variation of positive BFR. I remind you that the model of the CDA is not to be in need of a rolling stock but rather in resources. with a BFR that oscillates between 14% and 18% of the turnover. The more the activity increases, the more the BFR variation is positive for us. In September, we benefited from strong sale of loans and tickets not yet consumed, so pre-sale sales, as well as customer accounts for all Christmas trees and events in our parks at Christmas. And I remind you that our parks also open at Christmas this year. Net industrial investments are a slightly lower level than indicated by the group. Here too, we have precisely piloted the investments, so 260 million out of urban areas. Next year on urban areas, there will be a lot of work on the island of Puto, which is a DSP on which we are starting to work. and the operational cash flow that has tripled, plus the dividends poured in slight increases, have allowed us We have financial investments of 5.7 million euros, financial costs that have increased for the reasons I mentioned earlier, debt and FRSS refunds that correspond to the part of the rent corresponding to the capital, and other elements and variations of the perimeter of 165 million euros. So that's essentially the acquisition of Urban Soccer. with 125 million so paid for 83% of the capital we will still pay 3.5% of the capital for 5.2 million by December and we then have puts and calls and therefore a put accounted for 20.3 million in debt I also remind you that we have risen to 100% of the MMV capital this year for a cash impact of 14 million but which was already included in the net debt since it was a already accounted put so in variation of net debt it has no impact. We have a total net debt increase of 363 million as a result. Yes, here is how it is decomposed, a net debt IFRS 16 of 509 million euros and a net debt outside IFRS 16 of 754 million euros. And so there, the impact of the financing of Urban Soccer plays for 150 million euros on the net debt outside IFRS 16, plus 6 million of net debt of entry and 60 million of IFRS 16 debt for Urban. The leverage, so Dominique, we have already talked about a leverage of 2 out of Urban Soccer and 2 of 4 following the acquisition. And you see here the maturity profile of the group's debt on September 30, 2024. So no panic, the 276 million of the year 2024-2025, in fact, we still have large amounts that are linked to the new CP that we drew at the end of the year, also to our bank discoveries since we have rather optimized rates compared to our placements that we do elsewhere. And then you see that we have scaled the debt with a term loan concludes this year and the renewal of our euro pp. So we had a euro pp for 100 million euros that fell in May last year and that we have renewed for 137 million euros.

Quickly, a few elements of context. I don't want to go back in detail, but as I said earlier, for the parks, what is always to be kept in mind is the carrying out of investments in the short term, which generates value, but sometimes for two years or even three years, we carry a certain number of investments. I know that it is a concern that often comes back. So we decided not to finance the walls of our club residences, village clubs, hotels in the amusement park part. So we finance less and less and our committed capital is precisely committed to the segments on which we have the most impact and in terms of impact the most profitability. So it works, it doesn't work anymore, it works. What is important here is that on the distribution of investments, you see it in the ski areas at 95%, there is no extension of extensive growth, I said it. On the other hand, growth investments are made in the parks. And that's what this transparent shows, with a lot of new things, a certain number of new things that will come and we will see them in a few seconds on almost all our parks from this year. Also on the Hospitality distribution, the pursuit of development, the pursuit of development with new hotels and new residences next year, not on the next exercise, but the opening of a building, we will see it in a few seconds. So we continue our investments, our TransArc investments, I said it, but also the Valon de l'Iseran in Val d'Isère, a very large investment, financed in credit by, and then the first part on the refurbishment of the chain of the glacier, the Roche de Miau in La Plagne, and finally a tele-siege, the Marais in Tignes. The amusement parks, we also opened the Aquascope, it was a great success. The Aquascope is the aquatic park beyond the rewards, but the aquatic park to the Futuroscope, which allows us to see the fact that customers stay two days and take a night at home. So they do a day in the park and a day in the aquascape, the next day or the day before, it doesn't matter. And they stay in our hotels, so it's a little longer stay, which is obviously good for our... Our business, that's it, my two Amazonians, that was and it was in Belle Ward, Walibi in the Alps with Mahuka, it was the openings of the year. The work in progress, I was saying in December 25 for the new residence at Serre Chevalier and also renovations and extensions in the Alpes d'Huez. I remind you that the Hospitality distribution, the MMV business is not necessarily concentrated on the CDA stations. As you know, it doesn't work anymore. We will quickly move on to a reminder of the acquisitions and in particular a reminder of Urban Soccer. It fits completely into our reason to be. It is a very nice operation which is the French leader. So the challenge is to develop ourselves, but also to make synergies with the group. At the same time synergies with an identity of clientele, since we recover 4.5 million customers, which allows us to do cross-selling with our other activities. But also, for example, the PSG Academy with 20,000 children, to whom we will offer an entrance to each in one of our parks. And then also cost synergies, when you buy drinks for example, it's in volume, so when you add the volume of our parks and of the hospitality distribution and of Urban Soccer, Urban Paddle, obviously you have better conditions. Alexia said that there will be a huge center on the Ile de Puteaux for those who know, many know, between Neuilly and La Défense. Today a small part has been found, I must admit that we have opened 10 padel fields and that in 24 hours they were rented 10 hours a day. So there is a demand, we see that we are on a segment which is quite interesting, Manu to us, to make it fruitful. Relatively low intensity in CAPEX. CAPEX are charged by third parties. And so, on the other hand, BO margin, you see it, higher than 45%. And finally, last point, a very low seasonality in the August month, which is a month a little more hollow. But overall, 60% of the turnover is already done on January 1st in the morning when waking up, since these are hourly reservations. And when you don't pay the reservation, you go back to the waiting list far away. And above all, we are at the heart of our real hobbies, the creation of social links. all these mixed aspects, a bit like in our amusement parks and therefore it was legitimate and natural that it be housed and managed within the areas of leisure. Electricity, you see the history on the exercise, which is to be remembered is that we have already, you know that January 1, 26, the queen disappears but we have already locked our purchases of electricity in total at 58 and 61 euros for 2026 and 2027 which is a price very very favorable so it is a very important point because it was a shock and the electric shock 12 18 months ago which had had an impact on the other hand there suddenly the price the share price of electricity will continue to decrease Carbon, I will go there too, you see it, very good, very good growth, very good decrease in this case, growth in performance and decrease in CO2 emissions. You also saw it at the top of the press release. So we continue our trajectory, the trajectory that we made public in October 2022. And this year, the biggest after last year, it was the ski areas. And there too, it is the amusement parks this year that have continued to decrease. You see our trajectory which is about 60% less compared to 2018-2019. So it's possible and it's possible to do it in a profitable way. And that is our goal, to reconcile the environmental logic and the financial, economic and social logic. We are demonstrating that it is possible without giving lessons to anyone. But with the current technologies, we can already do all this and we will continue to do so because the goal is to be to zero, a net zero, without compensation, without indulgences, as we called it in the Middle Ages, we called it indulgences, now the new word is carbon compensation, but whatever, we do not use, we have no use for indulgences. So here are the curves, the curve in particular on the left that we had given in 2022. The commitments, the renouncements, I thank you for that, but if not, I would still remind you that on CDA Academy, from next March, according to our commitments, a kind of of internal training entities to be able to share the best practices between our different professions and therefore it is a very important tool and beyond the free action contributions you have that you have seen last year it is a very important plan to be faithful and the faithfulness of our staff of our employees of our seasonal workers is a very important element and and profitable because it allows you to do a recycling of training and not primal training when you work with a seasonal worker for the first time and we are delighted to do it. That's what we could say. The dividend, first of all, according to the policy that we had announced, we continue, we are even a little above. The board of directors proposed a dividend of 1 euro per share. in growth of 10% compared to last year. We have put the trajectory on the previous few years, so we are on amounts of distribution that are also record and it is legitimate to be able to pay our shareholders, it is the least of things. Here are the perspectives, the famous guidance, so we have planned an EBO in growth of about 10% next year with government measures in reserve, but that changes every day so we will wait. We are still on an important year of investment and then our trajectory of net zero carbon, that's for next year. On the other hand, for the first time, I think, at least since I've been here, we wanted to give a medium-term perspective and therefore at 4-5 years old with an EBO of more than 500 million euros and a financial leverage still in a strict discipline, including between 2 and 3 post-acquisition. And I will finish, as we were talking about perspectives 24-25, I will just tell you a little word about the current trading. The current trading, since October 1st, we have done in the parks the Halloween season, which was, we can say, exceptional. And so there is a small effect obviously compared to last year where it was particularly painful with the rain, But beyond that, our product is improving and is in strong progress with more and more nocturnes, etc. So you will have the chance to discover all this on January 23 or 25 in the quarterly sales figures with Christmas trees that are complete and very good bookings for Christmas periods with all our parks that will be open. On the mountain, with both the distribution of hospitality and the ski areas, today we are on reservation levels that are excellent, well ahead compared to last year, which was already a record year, and so we remain reasonably optimistic. This is very careful, we will make a remark about it later, but optimistic. So far, everything is fine. And then, that's what we could say. In summary, now we will answer your questions, exchanges, agreements, disagreements.

Hello, I had some small questions, in particular about the precision on your perspectives. The 500 million euros, is it a comparable perimeter or with acquisitions?

We think there will be acquisitions, but since we do not know how to measure them completely, I think we should be at a comparable perimeter, but it's a bit complicated at 4-5 years old to say with or without, but we are rather on a comparable perimeter.

My corollary question was about the financial leverage that you, with the guidance included between two and three times, it includes acquisitions. So maybe if you put a number behind on the acquisition section so that we can also understand in subjacent the generation of free cash that you are waiting for.

In fact, if we have set this point to arrive in the medium term, it is to be able to smooth things out a bit and give you an indication indirectly on the BO, on the free cash flow. We will say it like that. And then on the financial leverage, it was to show that we did not have as an objective to go beyond the three levers. So that means that the operational in itself, that's the goal of the operation, it is to show that the operational will be more and more a generator of free cash flow over time on the comparable perimeter. And then it leaves room to be able to examine external growth operations.

OK, thank you. And maybe one last point on your, sorry, always on the guidance for the year in progress, in fact, on the growth of 10% of the B.O. Would it be possible to have an idea of your underlying activity hypothesis? de l'activité, qu'est-ce que vous avez pris comme hypothèse de croissance d'activité pour avoir ce 10% de croissance de BO en 2024-2025 ?

On n'a pas donné de, comment ça s'appelle, d'indication de chiffre d'affaires. Ce qu'on peut dire, c'est que pour l'instant, on est très bien dans l'objectif sur la vue de, à date, 3 décembre, oui, on est le 3, 3 décembre sur, bon, c'est plutôt, on est dans un...

In fact, what I'm looking for to see is whether there is still an improvement lever on the margin of EBO or, given the good performance that you have had this year, you may have reached an optimized level or do you consider that this year or in 4-5 years, there is still a lever on the margin, EBO on the turnover?

We can see that in the ski areas, and to a lesser extent in the part of distribution and hospitality, we have reached levels of BO, especially in the ski areas, which are well elevated. By the decrease in the price of electricity, there will still be a little margin. On the other hand, on the parks, yes, we are more on the hypothesis of sensitively improving the margin of BO.

Thank you. Just a clarification on the guidance of 24-25, you partly answered, but we agree that we are in pro-format with Urban, or the contribution of 20 million Urban complementary in the 10%.

No, 24-25 we will have Urbann. Sorry, I didn't say it, but Urbann has been consolidated in the 24 figures since June 13, date of acquisition of the closing. On the other hand, on 2025, on the exercise 2025, it is at 100%.

Okay, so the plus 10%, it's proforma, as if Urbann had been fully integrated last year? It's compared to the 351 million today. Okay, so if we add about 20 million in urban areas, the growth of urban areas outside urban areas is only 3-4%? Is that what we need to understand?

No, there is a part of the urban area that was already taken from urban areas, a quarter, and so it will not be as high, we think. But indeed, yes, it is with urban areas, at 100%. But there is already a part of the urban area that was taken in 2024.

Okay, thank you. Yes, hello, Christian Devin, two questions, please, CIC. The first question is simply to have pro-format 2024, including urban, over 12 months, if you have, if it will allow to measure, in fact, the delta, in fact, for growth 2025. And the second question is about M&A for the next 4 to 5 years, because if I make a quick calculation, you are targeting an EBO of 500 million euros. If we add 50 million euros of IFRS, it's 550 times 2, it's 1.1 billion. You are at 750 million net debt today. Thank you.

Offensive, certainly. Aggressive, never. No, offensive, yes, indeed. We are in the logic. So your calculation is rather, as you said, in the bottom of the pot, but you also have to count the bidda that will be bought. So, that's it. No, we are indeed today that now the operational and that's what we were looking to demonstrate is that the operational part feeds its growth, finances its growth itself in a structural way and in a structurally very positive way. This is the cash flow approach that we have systematically. Then, yes, we try to look, we remain selective, but we look at a lot of opportunities. And so, I think that the year 2025, we hope we will be able to start showing things now that our know-how is very well established. that we have possibly opportunities that are present or that could be presented and so we will actually try to be offensive on these subjects to go look for growth also in 5 years 10 years the growth of the group.

So on the first question, you asked the question, what would it add in proforma if we added Urban this year? So we would have to add about 19 million more EBITDA. Regarding this figure, in fact, we must be aware that there are impacts on the allocation of the acquisition price. which weighs on the B.O. for a few years on the B.O. d'Urban and in particular a part of the price to be paid which falls in salary with the huge IFRS 16, the amortization also of the value of the stocks which have been taken to their value of achievement in the opening assessment and that will still weigh a little bit on the urban EBO for the first year. That's why I give you this level of EBO to take into account. In reality, it is a little higher in operational terms.

Hello, Mathilde Vissarias from Figaro. To go back to growth in leisure, we see that you are developing towards new urban activities. What are the other possible leisure activities that you are looking at and that would make sense in the area of the CDA? And same question for the ski areas. What are the possible DSP that will open up again and on which you will apply? in the next few years. Thank you.

I didn't say it, but in urban soccer and urban padel, there is one particular thing. When you are bad at tennis or bad at football, you still have fun with padel and football at five. And that's a pretty important point because there is no technical entry ticket for a little long learning. And so that's what we liked, also what we liked, plus the potential for growth. And so the goal is not to put the activities like pearls, it is now to develop thoroughly. And besides, we have strengthened development teams. to develop urban soccer, urban padel. So the underlying question that you ask. So here is my point of view on other activities, more urban, but which have a technical entry ticket. On the DSP part, today we are calling for the renewal of the DSP of La Plagne. And so we are preparing the offer, we consider ourselves as challengers, even if we have been using it for years. As challengers, there are perimeters that will evolve with other activities that will aggregate the mechanical comeback part. This is one of the topics on which we are calling for support, with a race result that should be known in the summer of 2025, at the beginning of autumn. Then, it also allows me to talk about Tignes, since we talked about it this summer. Tignes, the DSP, naturally ended on May 31, 2026. The elected, for reasons that I have not commented, I will quote word for word a project of territory, I close, it is quite honorable, they are elected for that, I do not comment. It turns out that I say, who needs to transform private investment, ours, by public debt? That's it. So today, we meet on May 31, 26. It's the normal end. It's not a remit. I say it very much. Besides, they wrote it themselves. They wrote it and said it themselves. It's not a remit of the skills or of the level of service that has been rendered by the company of the Alps. And besides, I take this opportunity to say also by the way that until May 31, 2359, we will be completely dedicated to the success of this ski area. It's up to you. Well, it's better to say it. And so we remain engaged until May 31, 26. After that, they decide to resume. So it takes a certain number of debunking conditions at the end of the concession, but in a normal way, as for all DSPs. So they will have to buy us the VNC of the assets, plus a certain number of assets, if we want to sell them at their market value. And so we had in the communication, it took place in the communiqué as well, makes an estimate that also depends on the state of progress or completion of the investments in progress.

Yes, hello, Alain Sévignan from OBHF. I had two small questions, the first on the leverage at the 4-5 year horizon. Can you give a little bit of color on the underlying in terms of the trajectory of CAPEX? You were at 21% on the previous exercise. Priority, it was around 21% CAPEX on the turnover this year. What can we establish in the medium term? And the second question, we recently saw some of your competitors adopt a very flexible tariff in the amusement parks according to the periods, according to the days of the year. Is this a reflection that you have internally at the CDA for the parks, but maybe also on the ski part?

On the pricing, after each operator, it turns out that we make prices but we are not as agile at their expense. We are in a logic where there must be both price growth to secure volume growth and B.O. growth. and we are not in a logic of 100% yield. This approach is also linked to the fact that they are already open 365 days a year. Our goal, as you remember from the presentation of the strategy for those who were there, is to extend the opening periods. So this year, for example, on the 2024 exercise, for the first time we opened, I quote an example, the ACRX park on Wednesdays. And it was a great success all September. Usually it was only the weekends in September. And we see that these days, that's why when we also see the progression of OPEX in leisure parks, we say yes, but it's higher than inflation. Yes, because we have, we increase the number of opening days, we extend the opening periods. So that's also what we do. So for an operator who is already open 365 days a year, it may be more understandable, justifiable, whatever, to start making a yield knowing that he has 85% of his visitors who are not French. I don't have many other comments on that. Then on the trajectory of the lever, the idea is to show that we keep this disciplined approach on cash. At the same time, I said it earlier, for the operational part, cash generator and which covers the operational free cash flow, but as the question will be asked, and which covers for the real free cash flow. This is an important point. And then show that we will be selective and that we will not pay any price to buy any asset just to show that we will actually reach 500 million. We will remain selective. Once again, it was to show a trajectory of arrival. And in terms of the Capex trajectory? The Capex trajectory, we are rather this year and next year at high points. And little by little, it's going to be comparable in perimeter. It's going to get tough. We are on, once again, 24 and 25 are high points years. We say that every time, but then maybe if we have other acquisitions, it will move. We see it with Urban Soccer, but we are on the levels that we had announced. I think two years ago, we had shown a more annual guidance on the CAPEX.

I have two questions. The first is about the school calendar this year. How do you qualify it, especially for ski activities? And the second question is about your envelope of 276 million euros of CAPEX this year. How will it be distributed and what will be the contribution of URBAN in bulk? Thank you.

The school holidays are a little less good on the French holidays due to the delay under control of David Ponson, but due to the Easter holidays that are a little later this year. Some holidays also in Benelux and Germany that are a little off. That's what we can say for the moment. So as much as the last year was absolutely ideal, as much as this year there is a slight shift. We're not going to do it either. That's it. But hey, that's it. You have to say it. And then on the second question, it was

The CAPEX envelopes, in fact, we have about 270 million for the comparable perimeter and 8 on Urban. Once again, these are envelopes that can be a little flexible. On Urban, in fact, we also aim to open two new centers per year. It could be that we open more. So that's all we see today. After that, we have perspectives that are still quite interesting for this subgroup.

Hello, Julien Ognillon, Stifel. I wanted to come to the costs. If I look at 2024, especially in skiing, you have an exclusive cost increase. the decrease in energy costs by 10%. A 10% increase in costs on the ski, which is very important, fundamentally. So, of course, you have a growth of 13% which is magnificent, but the costs have increased by 10%, except if we exclude the cost of energy. Are these costs, knowing that you had an exceptional year, do you consider that they have slipped a little or that they are still very high, given that normally these are relatively fixed costs? There are salaries, of course. There was also a lot of snow, so normally there was not so much electricity consumption, but we exclude that. What do you expect for next year in terms of costs on the ski part? Should it still progress strongly? Or are you going to try to compensate or reduce or at least maintain these costs at a much lower level? Second question, same thing on the leisure part. On leisure, you mentioned that the cost increase was less important in absolute value, in percentage, but it was a little higher probably in relation to the expectations that you had in terms of turnover, since you had some pressure on the margins. What do you expect in terms of cost on the leisure part for next year? I'm talking about the costs between the BO and the turnover. So that would be a first question, then I have another series of questions, but I would like to start with that.

No, but as I said, in fact, it is true that the cost base is difficult to compare to the other. We do not have our costs that have increased by 10% unilaterally, even if it can happen outside electricity. It can happen that on the BTP, for example, the civil engineering or on steel, we have gaps in the price of raw materials. we are on a table on a number of stations that are around inflation, a little above inflation for our costs, our OPEX. That's it. On the particular case of holiday parks, of holiday areas, we have, as I said, last year we opened for the first time a certain number of parks for Christmas. And so we have costs and we don't necessarily have On this period, the turnover that goes, because you have to create the product. If today, I don't know, Halloween makes almost 20% of the annual turnover, nobody remembers that at the beginning it was necessary to create the product, it was zero. And so we have to give the product the chance, we have to invest. And so sometimes we put costs and we don't immediately have the rise in power because the product has to settle. I think of Christmas last year, we opened for the first time in Walibi Belgium and in Walibi Rhône-Alpes. And so it worked very well, but the product is going to establish itself. We are also enriching it with years, but there has to be a cost of entry, an investment of entry in costs. As we are on the labor cost, since it's a lot of staff when we open and we are delighted and it's our wealth. And so, indeed, as soon as we open one more day, two more days, it has an impact. And so we bet on more healthy inflation costs, something like that, on the evolution of our costs, whatever the place in the group.

So I'm going to bounce back a little bit on that, since you're talking about inflation. So after all, on the leisure part, I understand that there is an investment. So indeed, there is an initial cost that has weighed on the margins. Indeed, on 2024, it is quite understandable. Once again, on the ski, look, you have more than 10%. After all, I have trouble understanding because there has been no specific growth investment. And in absolute value, we have a 10% increase if we exclude electricity. And so we have a little trouble understanding. You have recruited not 10% more, even with inflation, it is not more. I have a little trouble understanding on the ski part.

Yes, but we also had a little perimeter effect in relation to the opening of the seasons. We had and then the month of April has become ephemeral. In fact, it is very complicated to stay open until the second quarter of April, the first weeks of May. Well, we're not going to tell each other stories. There is no turnover at this time, almost no turnover. And then the costs have increased. But remember that the costs are also the inflation of the previous year, which was very high. And so with a delay effect, as we have it on the rates, on the rates in skiing, with a delay effect, that is to say that the very high inflation that we had in France, It, with the depletion and the shift in time, has a sedimentation effect on staff costs the following year. As on the rates, we still have tariff increases, for example in the ski, inflation plus 1.5. But it's not the inflation we know today at 1.2%. It's the inflation that was known in the month of March last year, at the beginning of the following year, which was higher, more sensitively higher, and which means that the rates are stopped with a delay effect, which is an effect where the rates will be stopped, let's say, between April and July. We will stop the tariffs, first thing. And the second thing, we also had, you remember, during the explosion period, the electric shock, negotiated a second temporary tariff increase, which was one euro, to put it simply, which had the vocation to be extinguished at the end of the exercise. It was just to pass the peak of electricity. So it dampened the shock, it did not completely compensate the shock, far from it. but it boosts the shock. In our cost structure, there is always a delay effect, especially in the ski areas, but we are not progressing from our 10% costs. Otherwise, there is a problem there.

And then we also have a part of the charges that are completely correlated with the increase in the turnover, and that's all that is remuneration, including mountain tax laws, etc., which are really based on the turnover. So there we have a progression that goes even beyond that of basic costs such as salaries, maintenance, etc.

So, precisely, I wanted to come back to this point, in particular, and on the price increase, since for 2020, what do you have as an anticipation of price increases? First of all, on skiing in general, what can you anticipate? But also, so it's not necessarily a price increase, it's sometimes an increase in revenue per visitor in the part it is not coded at the prices but it is a mixture a mix we will say on the leisure part and I would have the third question since I cut back on this week there was a question on there were discussions this year at the beginning of the year on new potential taxes on the rise in any case of the reports that have been written on new taxes on mechanical uplifts to finance the conversion of low altitude stations in particular. So this report, I don't know what it has become. Do you have any echoes? Are there in the laws of finance, there are a number of deputies who have ideas saying hey, if we were to pay skiers, etc. So there is a part of the price and a part since we were talking about costs, taxes, potential. What is your opinion and your view on this?

Yes, we saw this baroque idea circulating in a report. I don't remember who wrote the report, by the way. But, well, all that, well, that's it. Now, today, there is a discussion, well, I don't know very well where we are, but finally, on the project of the law of finance, the law of finance and social security, we don't know very well, because it was, as it was said, the pinnacle of taxation. No, what... I was going to say today. What was written so far, for example, if you talk about the IS surtax, what was written so far is that companies over 1 billion euros of business tax in the realm of fiscal integration in France. So we are not concerned. So now, that was last night, tomorrow it will change again, maybe, I don't know, that's why we put this little asterisk to say that we are completely in the fog, in fact, on what will be the law of finance and the law of finance and social security. That's it, after on the rest.

Regarding the prices, you know that in the framework of our DSP, we still have price increases that are framed. So in general, it is based on the BIP, which is a composite index. It corresponds more or less to inflation, plus 1, plus 5% roughly. And in the parks, we are thinking, since there is the impact of the pressure on the purchasing power, on our price policy, to increase the rate rather than the facial prices.

What does that mean concretely?

It means that concretely, it's inflation plus 1.5% more or less in trend on the increase of our prices. And it also applies to distribution and hospitality.

And on the leisure part, there is no mix of improvement of mix per visitor. You will not have.

Yes, we also have an improvement of MIG because otherwise we would not reach 10% of BO on the group with a growth of 2.5% or 3% of price. So in fact, we always present because we enjoy ourselves by saying the new roller coaster, the Asterix park, etc. There are a lot of new things that will come this year, the Futuroscope, etc. Wallibi Belgium, but there are also a lot of investments that are made in the places of food and beverage, of restoration in the parks and that aim to improve or in volume and or in specificity, in quality I was going to say, without being pejorative for one or the other, but the restoration offer in the parks and that directly aims to have an impact on the spending per visitor.

So we can bet on a 3-4% average spending per visitor.

Yes, it seems reasonable. I am cautious, as you know.

Last little question, what will be the impact in terms of visitors? Christmas openings since it's new it can add what do you anticipate in terms of number of visitors to your parks in general because I do not have a very clear vision what can be the impact what are you aiming at is that here is what it is and it does not give any targeted objectives and of course on this period there but finally when you look last year and that you come across with the information that

There was a lot, a lot of rain. You understand that it is a base. After that, we will not give any figures today. And if not, on January 25, you will see what we will have done on December 31.

So maybe a question a little bit different to dig, despite everything, I'm sorry. No, but it's to try to measure anyway, because what are the parks that open at Christmas today that did not open at Christmas last year?

Jean-François Delcaire, HMG Finance.

In light of the recent episodes, should we worry or do we have reasons to think that the competition and the renewal modalities of DSP are now a little more demanding or that there is a little color on the way in which the negotiations, how you see them?

We see ourselves as a challenger and that now there will be calls for offers, which was not the case before. To put it simply, for 30 or 40 years it was renewals, but now it is no longer possible, there will be calls for offers, which is good for us. This is good for us, but it also puts us in the position of a challenger once again, to be innovative. I remind you, either we renew, in good conditions, winning for the delegate and the delegate, Either we do not renew, whatever the reason, and in this case, the assets are repurchased to the VNC, well returned, well taken care of and well clean, possibly, if we decide to sell them. So I mentioned it, you saw for TIN that it represents, you saw in the URD, it will be in the URD this year, If tomorrow everything stopped, it would be almost a billion euros of capital engaged that would be taken by the company of the Alps. It's obviously cash, it's obviously not our project. Our project is to renew our DSP, to continue to invest in the mountains. We have real know-how and therefore, both in DSP and in the Hospitality distribution, as well as in our commitments and renouncements, we want to continue to invest massively in the mountain, but not necessarily in the sense of committed capital. And all this taking into account the climate risk, since we are not necessarily exposed to climate risk as long as we have not renewed a DSP, since we are subject to climate risk for the residual duration of the existing DSP and then every time we have to renew in our economic model to appreciate profitability, we integrate, if necessary, the climate impact part. Now we have our own algorithm. We also use the famous Klim Snow, which is public, but we also have our own internal algorithm. And so we use that to measure what would possibly be the impact of global warming on our ESP for the duration. Today, we are for a number of decades. Due to the height of the exhibition, well, it's not that the height is a shortcut, but there are several elements that matter, but of our ski areas, we are quite serene to continue to invest massively in the renewal of the ski DSP. You saw it, we have it. prolonger une je pense que ça n'arrivera plus beaucoup maintenant je pense mais sinon on en a gagné une autre en appel d'offres on est en appel d'offres sur la plagne à Tignes on n'a pas perdu il n'y a pas eu de concours enfin de compétition donc ils ont décidé de reprendre on verra ce qui se passera le 31 mai 2026 ou avant voilà

You have managed to stabilize the prices of electricity. Can you tell us, depending on the climatic conditions, which are sometimes a little disordered, if you have managed to stabilize the insurance costs?

Yes, we have a market of insurance that has relaxed a little. It was very hard three years ago, a little easier two years ago. And now we have been able to renew our entire insurance program a little in advance and with increases in costs that are quite logical, I would say, in relation to our sinisterness.

So, that's it. And two years ago, we had an increase of 10% in relation to the question of insurance, two or three years ago.

I wanted to bounce back on the question about the new calls for offers. Do you anticipate the Americans, who are now looking at Europe a lot, the big operators like Vale Resort and others, on France, to say, hey, why don't we participate in the calls for offers? Do you see, in fact, these are people who have a lot of financial means to eventually come to your markets? And on the other hand, do you have any thoughts on going to other geographical areas, on the ski part I'm talking about, outside of France? Are there opportunities outside of France, in Austria or elsewhere, or even in other geographical areas outside of the continent where it's too far for you? How do you see the more structural evolution of the market with possibly a globalization of your industry?

We do not have the ambition to leave Europe. We have looked at small things in Europe on which we have not necessarily advanced. Then there was this period where some small stations that were losing money were sold 43 times EBITDA. You can imagine that 43 times EBITDA, it's not even worth wasting your time. We won't do it. So today, and then I don't want to comment on the strategy of each other or their difficulties, social plans of the moment, etc. But what is important is for us, we don't worry. We are at the bottom, we try to be as innovative as possible. It's a quite complex French DSP structure that requires working as close to the pitch as possible, which is what David Ponson and his teams do, on a daily basis, as close as possible to the pitch, as the other would say, to the maximum. So everyone does as they hear, there will be calls for work, maybe they will answer, maybe they will not answer, but we do not care too much about competition, we try to be the best and the most innovative. And that's what we're doing, for example, for the Appel de la Plagne, where we try to be very innovative and surprising in the good sense of the term, to make people want to go back with us. So is there a last question or a last one? Because after we are fired. That's it, I see Yves Delomo, the boss of Grévin, who tells us there is the public during the work, the business. He is worried about his goals. Is there a last question? No? Thank you very much. And then do not hesitate, you know the usual channels, we will answer your questions. Thank you all, have a good day.