Canatu Oyj A Ord

Hi everyone and welcome to this news conference on Kanato's full year 2025 financial results. My name is Mari Makkonen and I'm in charge of investor relations. Today our CEO Juha Kokkonen will begin with key messages, then CFO Mikko Vesterinen will cover the key financials and after that Juha will return to discuss highlights and outlook. Following the presentations you will have the opportunity to ask questions. You may type in your questions into event chat already during the presentations. But without further ado, Juha, please go ahead.

Thank you, Mari. Kanatu is now, especially in the semiconductor domain, stronger than ever. There are four key points. We have now successfully deployed our first semiconductor reactor. Our customer FSD has made significant progress of making their own product validated. And on top of that one, we today announced that one of our existing customer has made purchase order to Kanatu to order long lead time components for the second reactor. That way that they can secure product delivery at the time they need it for scaling the operations to the next level. Then we have strengthened the organization with new talent, both in the leadership team as well as throughout the organization. Industry and especially semiconductor industry signaling a strong paradigm shift now when Advanced semiconductor is moving to the 2 nanometer node and starting next year further towards A14 nodes. With that one, we do see kind of the high demand for CNT pellicles. And in overall, when it comes to all of these advanced applications where CNT is needed, Kanatus proprietary tri-deposition process outperforms traditional CNT vet process. Our top line message today is that Kanatu is in a strong competitive position and has built solid foundation to capture customer opportunities. If you look at firstly the market drivers in semiconductor domain, the artificial intelligence and especially advanced semiconductor ecosystem is on a strong and accelerating growth trajectory. Rising demand for advanced chips continues to drive adoption of high-power EUV scanners, driving new nodes, like I was mentioning, 2 nanometer, and as a next step, the A14 nanometer, to reduce, increase their power, reduce the kind of the energy consumption, and doing things faster. And it is driving CNT pellicles. On automotive side, we do see two key drivers that are relevant for Kanatu. The higher level autonomous driving and assisted driving requires increasing number of sensors. For Kanatu, the most relevant sensors are the camera sensors, and those sensors with high optical requirements. Secondly, the thermal energy optimization, of battery electric vehicles through localized heating that can be like windows, windshield heating, and the next generation solar panels where energy capturing kind of the capability will increase significantly from the current state there. On operational progress side, the first CNT100 semi-reactor has been licensed to FST and is ready now for mass production of the CNT pellicle membranes. And this is, of course, has been very important foundation for company that now the kind of the solution, product and technology from Kanatu's perspective is ready for the mass production. We have made also progress in CNT Pellicle validation, that kind of full product validation with our partners. We have combined and deepened the relationship and technical discussions with major players in the ecosystem, including our existing customers, but with new customers as well. And this is supporting active negotiations on new orders, both existing, like announced today, and prospective customers. Then we have deepened our collaboration with Denso, who has been our long-term partner, to improve CNT conductivity. That means, as an example, that wind-sealed heating is happening faster and more efficiently. And then develop the large-scale chamber so that currently our limitation is 60 cm wide, that you can scale our production and the capability to address full wind shield size as well as the solar cells. And these are kind of the very important for the future automotive applications. Then from the revenue perspective, Canada's revenue has been growing like five years in row and almost 100% until this year. And this year, there was a disappointment from the perspective that our revenue decreased by 24% in second half and in full year, 29%, being full year 15.6 million. And the decline was mainly due to kind of what we already communicated in our announcement in mid last year, that if we are expecting, we were kind of expecting to get reactor orders, if we would get those new ones, that would have been higher. And if there would not be new reactor orders, that was the case, this revenue would have been smaller. So as Kanatus, we... Let's say over 90% of our revenue is coming from the five main customers and these reactors are playing a key role at the moment there. So this was the kind of the case in this year. Then we have been investing for growth. We have accelerated investments in medical diagnostics. by creating an expert team and advancing technical capabilities with clear focus on delivering ultra sensitive proof of concept solution and alpha prototype for hormone testing in this year. And this is targeting so that we would be ready by end of this year for preclinical studies. We have built business development team to create a solid pipeline of new high-value application for our CNT with enhanced resources. We have strengthened our ecosystem collaboration and public funding to accelerate time to market. And then we have upgraded our manufacturing capability for higher volumes. We have been building our second factory so that the total production space will be over 5000 square meters and enabling multiple parallel reactor builds. So infrastructure is complete and the clean room remains on track for completion in first half of 26. And now I hand over to Mikko, our CFO, to cover key financials.

Thank you, Juho. So like Juha told, the revenue last year and the second half declined on a year-on-year basis. And the drivers behind that were slower than anticipated customer approvals, which delayed both revenue recognition and then also had an impact on the follow-on reactor orders. Margin-wise, our cross-margin despite the decline in the revenue increased, and that was driven by the changes in the revenue mix. So a larger share of licensing-based revenue and a lower share of reactor sales, among other things. At the same time, the EBIT decreased substantially, which was driven first and foremost by the decrease in the revenue, but also due to our investments in the future growth. recruiting and the headcount has increased on full-time equivalent basis like 20% in the second half and almost the same number for growth for the full year. Capital expenditure increased in second half by over 50%. On a full year basis, it remained on a similar level due to full year 24. Our capital expenditure is by nature fluctuates between the half years, and for instance, we announced last year an investment in the Pelmis particle scanner, which was expected to arrive by the end of last year, but that was delayed due to this year, so that kind of has an impact in our capital expenditure at times. Pelmis is now expected to arrive during H1-26. Despite the decline in revenue or cash position, an equity ratio balance sheet remains strong, and that obviously gives us flexibility going forward still to invest in growth and also a good negotiation position. Then if we look at the revenue by business unit, so semiconductor business unit made revenue of 10.8 million in full year 25, automotive almost 5 million. So automotive grew very well year on year, and that growth was driven by strategic cooperation with Denso first and foremost. On semiconductor side, decline was driven by these reasons we have already mentioned. Delay in customer approvals and lack of follow-on reactor orders. On the good side, we were able to, like you have said, complete the SAT for the first reactor last year, and then we also sold a commercial license to FST in the second half, and that was also fully recognized as revenue in the second half. With regards to inspection membranes, the revenue or demand decreased in absolute terms, but it continued to be a significant or considerable contributor to our revenue throughout the year 2025. Now I hand over back to Juha.

Thank you, Mikko. I will then go to highlights and outlook. Firstly, I think that this is a familiar picture, I hope, with you. So what is happening in the industry is that AI and mobile computing and cloud computing are driving for better and more efficient nodes. So currently two nanometer chips are ramped up and the next node is 1.5. I'm sorry, 1.4 nanometer, it's called A14. And what we do see there in the marketplace, and it seems to be also the industry consensus, that this inflection point between composite pellicles to CNT pellicles is happening now, especially with this next node, and which comes with higher power ASML scanners. However, we do expect that already Kanatus CNT membranes and the pellicles done based on that one will be used for two nanometer technology. There was also a SPEAR conference last week, the Major Advanced Lithography Conference, where ASML already showed and demonstrated their capability to grow the power to the 1000 watt level. And that is, of course, very good news for us. And they actually thought that that could improve the proof put by 30% in 2030. So this roadmap could be even accelerated. Then our progress with our Korean customer, FSD. So the FSD is now a key industrial partner for Kanatu. Holding commercial production license and operating our reactors there to manufacture CNT pellicles, so they need to do based on this membrane certain further steps like coating, inspection, mounting that one on the mask for semiconductor labs. And so we got this approval last summer, and then we got, they wanted to get license for the mass production in October 25. They have made significant progress with the further steps where you need to then validate that one in EUB scanners, getting the third party certification by ASML and getting the final certification by the end customers. And I think that it's public knowledge that and public news that FSD has, for example, selling pellicle inspection tools as well as pellicle mounting tools for Samsung tailor factory in USA that will start to deliver and manufacture, for example, Tesla's AI chip. So based on this one, we do expect to start getting more consumable sales, but especially what will be very important for us is the royalties on each CNT pellicle that is sold by FSD to the final customer. This is the familiar picture for you as well. So, you know, we covered the kind of where we are with FSD, with founder customer. We have made recently very, very significant progress there. And then the next key step there is that there is a site acceptance testing for the first reactor on that site. And then, like mentioned, we have had New reactor negotiations with existing customers, and we announced already this one that there is this purchase order for long lead time components that we can guarantee the reactor. The final definite agreement negotiations are still ongoing. I think that where we do believe that our position on the marketplace, like communicated here, is significantly better compared to time when we made these first contracts. Therefore, we have, of course, discussions there, how could we even improve the current terms, what we have there. So that takes now some time. But customer wanted to secure the timeline for this reactor deal there. And then we are having discussions with new customers, like I have been telling that I do see that there can be in this market two, three, maximum four players. Now we have two customers here, and I think that there could be room at least for one new player in this market. When it comes to this nodes like based on the DUV technology that are larger than seven nanometer technology, there are four pellicle vendors. Then automotive side, like Mikko mentioned, our automotive revenue grew more than doubled last year. So the key driver for this one has been these battery electric vehicles and the collaboration with Denso. We have a long-term relationship there. And what our customer do see there is that there is clear trend for energy optimization for enhanced HVAC system. And that means like heating, ventilation, air conditioning. And to provide their localized heating. And especially now in our case, it means that Wind-sealed side windows will be heated through localized film heating. That will save significantly energy and also enables to have significantly smaller HVAC systems there that will make cockpit design significantly more living room-like. The second key element and driver here is next generation solar panels, where energy capturing efficiency could be improved up to 40%. That is very significant compared to current technology there. And that would be then possibility to extend rains while parking a car in sunny place. So this collaboration is very important, and we continue. We have been doing these performance improvements. We have been now doing this large scale chamber that enables us to have very sizable CNT films for these solar panels, as well as for the windshield. And then we are kind of the targeting to improve also productivity and cost through our throughput by high performance HPR reactors. This HPR stands for high performance reactor. Then on the medical diagnostic side, we are accelerating investments in ultra sensitive, low cost, scalable point of care diagnostics. So our aim is to become a leading point of care solution provider in hormones and infectious diseases, addressing the current sensitivity gap. So basic idea what is there is that the same what you have on the hospital level lab diagnostics that takes like hours, if not days, can be done in point of care in in minutes in cost efficient manner with with almost without any education for the nurses to do this one so that's the kind of the basic idea driving towards point of care so we have now demonstrated strong strong scientific progress with two published papers And the third one is on the peer review. And I really like this third one. It has not been published yet, but it is truly demonstrating the CNT capability and sensitivity benefit over the competitive materials and technologies there. Then we are going to strengthen capabilities by enhancing the development competencies, recruiting global talent. We have established the organization in USA in addition to our team in Finland. And key task for this year is that having the integrated proof of concept system. and functional alpha prototype for hormone detection, so that we can start preclinical tests already in this year. Then, like I have been talking many times, that most of the Kanatus applications for these most advanced CNTs, the ideas have been coming from our customers, like pellicles or inspection filters or heating elements and so on. So now what we are building is a strong new business and product development team with dedicated experts. And really the idea is to accelerate the time to market for these high value applications. The key focus areas here, what we do see are microelectronics, building on top of what we have done on the semiconductor domain, and electrochemical sensing, what we are building then on top of these medical diagnostics. And we are here leveraging the public funding to accelerate time to market for these high-value applications. Then when we look at the financial outlook and when we look at this year, Kanatu continues to see strong long-term potential in its three business focus areas, semiconductor, automotive and medical diagnostics. But we decided that KANA does not issue any specific numerical guidance for financial year 26. However, I'm going on the next slide to cover what are the key operational targets for 26. And based on that one, you will understand pretty well what is the kind of the target level for our revenue in this year time. And why we are not doing this one, the main reason is that we are in the middle of the customer negotiations with our key customers for expanding the reactor sales, very much going to this scale-up phase, as well as on the automotive side, having the big customer where the deals have not been closed yet. And therefore, we decided that it's better not to give this guidance, but we will give you very clear operational targets what we would like to achieve. Then when it comes to long-term targets, the Board of Directors has assessed, and today they decided to withdraw its previously communicated long-term financial targets of over 100 million euro revenue and an EBIT margin of over 30% in 2027. And this is very much based on what we were already communicating in our last year results space, as well as what I was telling about some delays with some new customer deals. And therefore, we came into conclusion that we cannot anymore achieve this 100 million revenue next year. But we are going to give our new target in our capital markets day on 26th of March. So now in three weeks time. So then very important slide here. So what are the key operational targets for 26th? So we say that we are having extremely competitive position when it comes to our pellicle technology and we of course want to maintain and strengthen this position where we have done a lot of work last year to secure that position both for the reactor technology as well as for inspection membranes. Then we target to complete the customer approval for the second, for the Foundry customer. Then sell at least one new CNT100 reactor. And the first one, we received the purchase order for long lead time items. Then so that based on the Kanatus technology, our customer will already start selling pellicles. That will mean that we will start to get consumables, but especially royalties on CNT pellicle sold. And then building our manufacturing capability so that we can build multiple parallel reactors in our factory in Finland. On automotive side, the targets are for the start mass production of ADAS camera heaters with a lead customer, what we do have there. Complete the joint development projects on CNT conductivity and large scale chamber with our lead customer Denso there. Then in advance the development of the ADAS camera heater concept with enhanced material configuration in windshield glass. The basic idea there is that we will make integration of the Kanatu CNT film more easier as well as more cost efficient for windshield manufacturers to integrate that one inside the windshield. Then continue developing full windshield heaters and next-generation solar cells with those enormous benefits, what they are. And as a new item, sell one high-performance CNT100 HPR, so high-performance reactor, to an automotive customer. On medical diagnostic side, We already very much covered this one. Develop one integrated proof of concept system and functional alpha prototype for hormone monitoring. Publish scientific papers to build strong proof of concepts and proof points for that one. On business development side, we have received a lot of new application candidates from the ecosystem. So we want to evaluate at least 10 new applications and identify the most promising business cases. primarily from microsystems and electrochemical sensing domains. And as you remember, this Kanatu CNT material, where we are making the most advanced CNTs, that's like silicon, so you can do various applications based on that one. And our system is like a platform that you can easily build new applications without significant new investments there. And then we target to start one new development agreement with a credible, significant industry player. So then as a summary, our key message here is that Kanatu has strong competitive position and solid foundation to capture customer opportunities. AI and advanced semiconductor ecosystem is strong and accelerating growth. This is rising demand for advanced chips, for high-power scanners, new nodes, and thus also for CNT pellicles. On automotive side, assisted driving requires high optical requirements, especially for the camera sensors. Terminal energy optimization requires new type of heating solutions, localized heating, and getting their next generation solar panels to extend the range of the cars. Operational progress has been significant there. So we have basically proven our technology capability for our main product domain, for the EUVC and the pellicles. We have made significant progress with the key industry partners, with our existing ones and with the new ones there, so that these support active negotiation on new orders, both existing, like announce something today, and prospective customers. We have deepened collaboration with Denso, to improve our conductivity and develop large-scale chambers. We are investing for growth, for the future growth in medical diagnostic domain to develop new solid application domains to accelerate time to market. And we are right now expanding our manufacturing capability to build multiple parallel reactors in our factory in Finland. So as a summary, Kanatu has gained momentum and strengthened the competitive edge in CNT pellicles and continues to invest in future growth. Thank you.

Thank you Juha. And now it's time for questions. Let's start with questions from the audience here at Sanomatalo.

Hi, it's Atte Riikola from Inderes. Let's start with the semiconductor sector. First question about the second reactor customer that is still in the SAT process. So has there been any new delays with the customer or what kind of visibility you have for the situation?

Yeah, we have a very good visibility and there has not been any further delays with that one.

Okay, then about the FST and the royalties that are coming maybe this year. So are you expecting like meaningful royalties already this year when the mass production starts or can you say anything about that?

Yeah, I think that we don't have very good visibility on that one, so that what will be the volumes there, in some way, they would be, I think that maybe on the range of the, not yet like super meaningful, I would say that way, because there will be the ramp-up phase and the first kind of the pellicles will be used, but I think that will be super important for us.

Can you say anything about the C&T pellicle price levels on the overall level, on the market, and then think about the price of the pellicle and then the royalty that you're getting from per pellicle, so anything on that topic?

I think we don't have visibility on our customers' contracts there. If you think about what we do know, and it's kind of very much like a public information, that composite pellet prices varies roughly between 35,000 to 50,000 USD. So that's the range level. Of course, with CNT pellicle, that's providing more value. You get better throughput using the CNT pellicles. Of course, then it will be the question that what will be the competition? If there will be only these two players, there will be quite a little competition. competition and then the kind of the position of the players will be of course extremely good if there will be more players then there will be more competition and that that might kind of the effect to the to the pricing all right then are you still expecting customers to start using cnt pellicles in euv machines that are like from power that have power less than 600 watts

Yes. So no changes there. And then you're targeting the sale of at least one new semi-reactor this year. And if you think about the key reasons, what has been postponing the sales of new reactors, could you highlight those reasons?

Yeah, I think that what was the key reasons happened mostly like last year. So as we delivered these reactors 2024, so it has been taking time for our customers to first of all get approval for the reactor and the Kanatu delivery. But at the same time, they are developing the coating method so that this pellicle will last a long time. So the ASML target is like 10,000 wafers. in the real scanner environment. So they are developing the coating on top of that one. And then getting all the approvals for that one, you need to have an ASML approval, so that your warranty of those scanners is valid. And then you need to get... approval from the foundry customer or foundry itself, it can be, when they are developing this one, so that it is ready for the process. That has been the key delay, but now I think that we are getting into kind of stage where the scaling will start, and that's very important, that there has been the development time, then there has been the validation time, and now we are entering to the scaling time. That's critical for us.

Can you say anything about that, that how much faster you could deploy now the second reactor, for example, to the FST now when all of those different validations have been already done? Significantly, significantly. All right. And you said that you are now targeting when you have increased the capacity to build like multiple reactors at the same time. So can you say anything about how many reactors you are targeting to build at the same time? No.

Yeah, I think that we have this new factory and we have the room. to build a space such a way that we can address the market demands. So whatsoever will be the market demand, we will have a capability to address that one.

And then about the revenue development in inspection membranes I think you when you or at least in the past years you have been talking that that business is growing and now you said that the revenue declined so what's the reason behind that and are you still expecting that business to grow in the coming years?

Yeah, I think that in the long term, we do expect that business to grow. And the key thing there is that the customer... Let me have another example there. So there's one customer from the DUV inspection market who launched their first product in 2005. And they were still selling last year, like tens of those equipments, 20 years later. So we do expect the same thing happening on the EU side. Hey, these tools will be sold during the next 10, maybe even 20 years time. So that will mean that the number of the tools will grow and grow and grow every year. The reason why there has been now lower sales than earlier years, there are mainly two reasons. The reason number one and the key reason is that there has been certain maintenance cycle for that tool. Let's say X days. And that has been not driven by Kanatus inspection membrane, but by some other element inside the tool. And now that some other element has managed to extend the maintenance cycle, basically doubling that one. So that has led into a situation that also our inspection filters are not changed so regularly that they used to be changed, but it has been expanded like double the time. So that has now, for time being, kind of lowered the demand there, but as the number of the inspection tools again grows, we are then capturing again the kind of the growth part there.

You have talked in this business that there is like potential to expand the business, for example, in optical filters and whatnot. So how is that development going on?

We don't have today to announce any like product, mass product cases there yet.

All right. And then still about the competitive position, you say now that there is two players on the market, so could you a little bit open up more the situation and how you are seeing, is there any new competitors coming in or any different materials than CNT for the future pellicles?

Yeah, if I'm starting with the latter one, so I just participated last week in Chanhoussee, the SPIE conference, that is the leading yearly conference for advanced lithography. And there was one presentation about the future pellicles there, and that was with material called perillium. And then this perillium material is extremely toxic material, and there are industry very strong opinions that they will not accept perillium as a material for pellicles. So from the competition perspective, we do see that CNT is something to now prevail for as long as we have visibility here. Then what was your other question?

About the current players in the CNT pellicle market.

You are the other one, and then there's... Yeah, then there... We do know that Lintec has been developing their CNT pellicle. We haven't seen any traction. that they would have done. They even asked whether Kanatu could provide them CNT reactors, sell them CNT reactors, so that maybe is kind of quite a strong indication what is their position right now in the market. And then we of course do know that Mitsui has been trying to develop the CNT pellicle. Last year they announced that they would make the public announcement by end of last year. That did not happen. Then we do know also from public sources that that pellicle is non-coated. So you can think about what is then the lifetime of that pellicle. So from that perspective, We can say that we are in an extremely strong position when it comes to our main business. Now we go to the next node and it will start to scale.

All right. And then a couple of questions from automotive side. You mentioned that you are targeting to deliver the first reactor on there also. So how that compares to the reactors in semiconductor business and for example from the revenue perspective?

Yeah, I think that the approach is slightly different compared to the semiconductor domain. First of all, I think that when we are talking about, maybe putting a little bit of background to understand it better is that, first of all, that when we are talking about, for example, windshield heating applications or solar cells, we are potentially talking about millions of square meters. So huge amount of CNT. And therefore, from the business model perspective, what we have been preliminary discussing with our key partners there is that Kanato would not be a player who will have factories all over the world, in Mexico, in China, in all over the place, to develop this one. So the basic idea there is that this would be again more like licensing business rather than Kanatu to be a huge manufacturer of C&T films. And therefore, this is like the first reactor where we are negotiating to deliver to our key partner in this domain so that they can start preparing their development, they still need to do further development there, and making the kind of the production setup development there. This is not yet targeted for mass production, this reactor. So that is the kind of a little bit different approach compared to semiconductor, where these reactors are targeted for mass production.

All right. And I think last year the revenue from automotive side was mainly from those development projects with Denso and something under the hood. But are you expecting this year the automotive revenue to grow or can you say anything about that?

Do you want to answer for that one?

I think we will not comment about the actual outlook for the automotive separately, but like like we've been now telling about these projects and potential going forward. So I think that the base is solid for this year and there are key targets, what we aim to reach this year. And if we are successful in those, it should be good.

All right and last question from me. Your headcount increased quite a much last year and so what kind of recruitment or investment needs you have for this year? Are you going to keep on going with the same pace with recruitments even though your revenue expectations have been delayed compared to the listing?

I don't expect that we are going to grow as fast as we did last year, because we made major investments to, for example, the semiconductor, that we really secured our competitive position there. We made major investments to the medical diagnostics. So we basically had a very, very small team and we grew the team. as a kind of this second element. So those were the main headcount contributors there. And then we update our management team. So I don't see need for such a significant headcount increase in this year.

All right. Thank you.

Thank you, Ate, for relevant questions. Let's then take a couple of questions from the chat. So, first of all, are you going to publish new long-term financial targets in the upcoming CMD?

We are right now working with our strategy, and we are developing our messages there, and we will publish our long-term targets in CMD.

Then simple question to Mikko. How much of the 100 million euro that you received in conjunction with the listing deal have you used so far?

At the end of last financial year, we had cash and short-term investments, which in practice the cash for us amounted in total to 92 million. So the cash position was strong still.

And then what is your expectation of when would the first recurring revenue start coming in from the first CMT100CMR reactor?

In this year.

Thank you. Then ASML introduced roadmap where low NA EUV source power will increase over 600 watts. Will Kanatu deliver pellicles to this application? And this is related to low NA EUV, not high NA application.

First of all, for us and for the industry, it doesn't matter whether it's low NA or high NA. So for both of those, it's relevant that industry has a need to move from the conventional technology to the CNT technology now with transitioning happening in this 500 to 600 watts level. And if you go further, then our position is even better if you go to 800 watts or 1,000 watts. So we do believe that our position there is even stronger compared to competition.

So related to this, there's a follow-on question regarding, are Kanatu CNT pellicles okay for 1,000 or 1,500 watt EUV?

Of course, it has not been tested, but basically, the fundamental thing there is that CNT material is extremely heat tolerant. So, in vacuum environment, it can tolerate up to 1,500 Celsius. And this environment there is vacuum environment. So, currently, I think that we are talking about maybe 600 Celsius levels in the kind of the focal point there. So there is still a lot headroom to go further.

Then question regarding investments. So how do you justify delays in reactor orders and at the same time investments in increasing production capacity at the same time?

Yeah, I think that We are now building this extra capacity to be ready mid this year. And I hope that it is coming exactly at the right time for being capable of making multiple reactors.

Then going back to this low NA 600 watt EUV system. So how well received are CNT pellicles for these upcoming low NA 600 watt EUV systems? And are foundries eager or reluctant to adopt CNT pellicles for these production lines?

I think that we do see very high interest for that one. We do see, I had a very interesting discussion with one of the ASML executives just one week ago, and I think that the whole industry including ASML, including those foundries, are really welcoming this development, because that enables them to use these higher power ASML systems and that enables them to do even smaller nodes that are more powerful, more energy efficient and so on. So I think that I do see One ASML executive really came to me to say, Roni, hey, thank you. Thank you for your progress there.

Great. Then are you seeing any of your customers delaying negotiations due to Mitsui's plans of ramping up CNT pellicle production during the first half of 2026?

No, I don't think so.

Then one question regarding the automotive. So in automotive, did your revenue grow solely due to Denso's development contract or did production sales volumes also grow?

Denso was the key driver there. And of course, there were also other things behind the total number, but I think it's fair to say that the partnership with Tenso expanded over during the past year.

Thank you. And do we have any final questions from the audience or are we, we are good?

Thank you. Thank you, everyone. And Mari, do you want to cover this Capital Markets Day?

Yes, thank you. So we will be hosting the Capital Markets Day on 26th of March at 10 o'clock here at Sanomatavalo Helsinki. And the registration is now open. So please register on our investor site.

Thank you very much for your interest.