Capitaland Integrtd Unit

Hi, good morning. Thank you for joining us today. I'm Alison, happy to host you for CICT's full year results briefing. Sorry, apologies about the minor delay. We are very excited to have you with us today, whether you are with us in person or tuning in from your desk. So as per usual, today we'll start off with a presentation by our CEO, Chun Xiang, who will walk us through his key highlights. After that, we'll move on to the Q&A, where the management team will join us onto the stage to address your questions. So if there are some good ones, please save them for later. We'll try to get to as many as we can. And with that, I'd like to invite Chun Xiang onto the stage.

Hi, good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. So we just announced our results this morning. Quite happy with the overall outcome of how last year went. A lot of things to go through today. So bear with us. I will spend just maybe about 10, 15 minutes just walking through the highlights. And then we can move on to Q&A, as Alison has mentioned. Okay, so first on the numbers, I think CICT delivered a very strong performance for the year, FY2025. Full year MPI, we grew by about 3.1% year-on-year to $1189.7 million. Second half MPI grew at a faster pace at 6.8% year-on-year to about $610 million. The strong growth was due to quite a few factors across the board. Strong asset performance across the portfolio and the step-up acquisition of the 100% interest in Capital Spring, which was completed on 26 August last year. Full-year distributable income rose 14.4% year-on-year, while second-half distributable income expanded 16.4%. Unit holders will be pleased to know that CICT's full-year DPU increased 6.4% year-on-year to $11.58. despite an enlarged unit base from the private placement in August last year. This was supported by a very strong second half, which provided uplift with a 9.4% year-on-year growth in DPU to $0.596. On the capital management front, we have been proactive, putting CICT in a very favourable position in terms of cost of funding. At the end of 2025, our aggregate leverage has improved to 38.6%, down 0.6 percentage points from 30 September, giving us greater financial flexibility. Our average cost of debt has declined to 3.2% from 3.3% three months ago. Versus the end of 2024, we are down by about 0.4 percentage points from 3.6%. This was supported by the easing industry environment and our refinancing efforts. Our current portfolio property value is at $27.4 billion, an increase of 5.2%. Operationally, our portfolio remains strong. Overall occupancy 96.9%, will 3.0 years. Rent reversions for both retail and office 6.6%, tenant sales per square foot up by 14.9% year on year, largely due to the inclusion of ION. Shopper traffic up 20.5% year-on-year. Excluding ION, tenant sales per square foot would have grown by about 1.2% year-on-year, while shopper traffic will be up 4.6%. The momentum was stronger in the second half, with tenant sales rising 1.9% year-on-year, excluding ION Orchard. In 2025 and year-to-date January 2026, we continue to execute our value creation strategy across acquisitions, divestments, AEIs and even development. These have strengthened the quality of our portfolio, enhanced income resilience and positioned CICT for sustainable long-term growth. I will cover more on the newly announced initiatives in the next few slides. In January 2026, we announced the divestment of Bukit Panjang Plaza for $428 million. The price is a 10% premium to the latest valuation and a 165% uplift over our purchase price in 2007. The exit yield was around mid-4% level. If we were to complete the divestment in end 2026, gearing would have fallen 1% to 37.6%. We expect to complete this divestment by the first quarter of this year. We will be embarking on the development project this year. We want the Hougang Central site through a joint bid which includes capital land development. This is the first major GLS site in the Pusin since 2019. We will own and develop the commercial component. The site is in a prime location, served by the existing North East Line and the upcoming Cross Island Line, and will be seamlessly integrated with a new bus interchange. Surrounding the site, there are established amenities, including schools, sports centre, community club and parks. We see this as a compelling opportunity to address the underserved demand in the precinct and to curate a retail environment that meets the needs of both residents and commuters. The total development cost for this project is about $1.1 billion, which translates to approximately $3,600 per square foot. and I expected yield on cost of over 5%. This compares very well with the recent retail transactions at the low to mid 4% level. And this will be a brand new mall built to our specifications. Taking into account inflation, the site's prime location, and the integration with the two MRT lines and the bus interchange, we believe the total development cost is reasonable for a high quality brand new mall. For reference, the capital value for our Bedok Mall is about 3,700 PSF, while some of the recent market transactions were done at above 4,000 PSF. We will be financing the development through both internal funds and external borrowings. Target completion is expected to be in four to five years. The development is strategically important for a few reasons. Firstly, it increases our exposure to Singapore, which remains our core market and a key source of stable long-term income. Secondly, the site is in a prime location in the heart of Hougang, with excellent connectivity, as I have articulated earlier, and a large residential catchment. Thirdly, this is a rare opportunity as well located suburban malls and transport nodes in Singapore are tightly held and rarely available. Through this development, we can establish a strategic foothold in the Northeast region and expand our retail footprint in Singapore. The development sits within a strong population catchment, one of the top highest in Singapore. There is also likely spillover demand from neighbouring towns like Covent, Punggol, Sengkang and Serangoon. Our JV partners will further expand this catchment by introducing 830 residential units to the mixed-use development. Hougang has only 2.8 square foot of private retail space per capital, far below the national average of 11.4. This presents an untapped potential, supporting the development's long-term prospects. Next, moving on to AEIs. This year, we'll be starting a new AEI at Capital Tower. Essentially, what we are doing is basically reposition our Level 9, which is this floor. some of the amenity space into a community space and create a higher yielding F&B space at the ground floor of the urban plaza. On level 1, we'll be introducing a two-story multi-tenanted pavilion with F&B offerings. On level 9, the space will be reconfigured to become the first workplace mental wellness centre in the CBD. The AEI works will be from third quarter 2026 to the fourth quarter 2027. An update on our ongoing AEIs. Galileo has completed a progressive handover of Phase 1, the office tower, to ECB. The target handover of Phase 2 is expected by this quarter. AEIs at Tampines Mall and Lot 1 and Raffles City are progressing well. On valuations, the key assumptions remain largely unchanged and cap rates remain fairly stable. Our portfolio property value grew 5.2% to $27.4 billion, largely driven by the step-up acquisition of Capital Spring and the strength of our Singapore portfolio. Germany's valuation went up after factoring in Galileo's AEI. I'll conclude my presentation here. Happy to take your questions after this. Thank you.

Thank you, Chun Xiang. Can we invite the management team onto the stage? Okay, now we have come to the Q&A segment. Before we dive into it, let me introduce the management team. So on Trinh Sang's right, we have Wong May Lien, our CFO. And to his left, we have Jack Min Lee, Head of Investment. And to Jack Min's left, we have Lee Jeon, Head of Portfolio Management. Okay, a few housekeeping rules before we start. We'll take questions one person at a time. We kindly ask that you keep your questions to two per turn. If you have more questions, we'll come back to you, as we know some of you always do. Those online, please type in your questions into the chat box. Okay, if you have questions, please raise your hands and we'll bring the mic to you. So I see Marvin. Go ahead.

Hi, Mervyn from JP Morgan. Congrats, Chung Siang, on the very strong results. Glad to see you continuing Tony's very strong legacy. I would say this is probably the best results amongst the S3 season. If I analyse the second half DPU, looks like you're hitting the pre-COVID 2019 level already. I know you're not supposed to analyse it, given the second half is much stronger, but why are you excited about this year in terms of growth drivers. Maybe you can share that with us. And second question is divestments. I think previously they mentioned about asset rejuvenation. Is Germany still something you want to be in? Thanks.

Thanks Mervin. Okay so yeah this year well on your DPU question yeah so we don't typically provide forecasts and typically second half is stronger than first half seasonally speaking so well we hope to improve on our results for this year but let's see. I think the Maybe we'll just break it out into what are the potential growth drivers in terms of our TPU. I think underlying performance for the organic portfolio still remains healthy. I mean, we're still reporting positive rental reversions and the positive rental reversions from last year will also continue to contribute to the organic growth because as you know, we calculate rental reversions based on average to average. So in fact, the last two years rental reversions will also still be figuring into next year's growth drivers. So that's one for organic side. Second thing on the AEI, this year we have Gallido completing. um so get it over fully contribute for this year last year it started contributing towards the end of the year probably not significantly so that would definitely be one of the cost drivers as well one of the growth drivers as well third Of course, there are some of the other AEIs like Lot 1 and Tampines Mall that will progressively contribute as they, but those are likely to happen closer to second half of the year. So the contribution for this year will probably be slightly smaller. Third thing on the AEI front is that last year we also completed, I mean IMM towards the middle of the year, so there will be a full year contribution, but last year they started contributing probably from the middle of last year. So those are some of the incremental growth drivers from AEIs. On the third growth driver, I would say, well we had the benefit of a full year ION already, so the base has already included 12 months of ION income. So whatever we get from ION going forward will be the incremental organic growth. But last year we acquired Capital Spring in August and that's a fairly accretive transaction. So that contributed about 4 months last year and this year will fully contribute for 12 months. So some of the improvement in the second half was actually attributable to capital spring as well. So we're likely to see this flow through to this year. And of course, last but not least, very importantly, interest cost savings. We know that that's a big swing factor for REITs. Every time interest rates come down, we will see a significant benefit. But of course, I think, I mean, nobody knows what the direction is going to be this year. It looks like Sora has kind of found a footing. But of course, a lot of our rates, a lot of our loans are still fixed at the higher rates. Average is 3.2. Marginal rate is probably closer to the mid 2 handle. So there's still some room, but it all depends on, we don't have, a lot of loans for refinancing this year to be honest I think we did a lot of refinancing last year but of course we still have a large proportion of loans in floating so that will benefit from the drop in floating rates and it also means that it will help with our ability to continue to grow and acquire going forward so I think those are the growth drivers so hopefully if the economy remains nice and chugging along nicely that should help us I spent a lot of time answering your first question I forgot your second question

Divestments.

Oh, divestments. Okay, so we just announced one divestment. Take it easy, man. Give us some breathing room. We haven't actually closed the Bukit Panjang. So I think let us be focused on closing Bukit Panjang first. And then we will think about the next step in terms of divestment. but we do have I mean there are a few possibilities as you already pointed out we will start reviewing some of our assets outside of Singapore as well. But of course, those will always depend on the market conditions in the respective markets. But I think, I mean, you brought up Germany, which I'm sure is something that's on quite a few people's mind. But I think Germany is, the way I see it, it's slightly de-risked now because we have Galileo that has already been handed over to the tenant. So from this year onwards you will start contributing income so there is not as much urgency so we can actually benefit from the uplift in MPI from the asset in any case whether we divest or not. But of course if you divest then you probably have to worry less in a sense but actually the asset itself has a long-term tenure so it's pretty much the risk but we have another asset in Germany that is not of the same tenancy structure of course so there will be some so we potentially can look at that as well can Rachel please

Hi morning Chun Siyang and team. Congrats on the very strong results. My first question is probably if you could, I think you spoke a little bit on interest cost. You have done very well in 2025. Could you guide us a little bit on 2026 interest cost? And my second question is on since Levine have asked divestments or asked acquisitions. Are you still keen on Singapore retail, like say your sponsor Pipeline Jewel, or are you keen to buy the office assets that's out in the market?

I'll take the second question and then maybe Maylian can take the first question later. In terms of acquisitions, I think we continue to look at our portfolio reconstitution. I think the current environment In terms of our cost of funding, actually it's quite conducive for us. Interest cost is low, our cost of equity is fairly reasonable. But I think we have always been quite selective about what we look at in terms of acquisitions. There are not that many opportunities in the market. I mean, on the retail, you talked about retail and office. So let's maybe look at retail. Retail, I think there aren't that many opportunities in the market. You mentioned Jewel, which is our sponsor. I think that has been there for a while. I think it needs to... It might take some time because I think the financials need to match our pricing expectation as well before there can be a transaction. So we'll have to see how that goes. And also the vendor needs to be willing to sell at some point first. We don't know what's the thinking there. On the office front, There are a few fees assets that has been out in the market. The challenge I guess is the pricing expectation and the yield expectations for some of those assets. Whether they can make it work. I think safe to say we are unlikely to acquire an asset that doesn't contribute financially or doesn't really help union holders. If it's not accretive, it will be quite challenging. So if you're talking about those chunky assets, if it needs equity funding, it's even more challenging. I don't know. I think it depends on probably not answering your question, but taking a long time to not answer your question. But I think it's quite difficult for some of those assets that are trading at fairly low use.

On interest rate, like what Chun Xiang mentioned earlier, the amount of loans that is due for refinancing is not that big. So given where current interest rate levels are, in terms of interest rate guidance, I think we could be in the range of 3% to 3.1% level. Yeah.

Geraldine? Hi, morning, Chunxiang. Congrats on the very strong set of results. My first question will be on valuation. I think for seeing the lower bound of the value of cap rates seems to have tightened a little bit. Are you able to share what has changed? Is it because of the market transactions? And second question is on, really, if you're looking forward, the picture looks very rosy. Just thinking a lot, what are the kind of concerns that you have in mind for 2026 and anything further that you want to de-risk in 2026? Okay.

Maybe I'll take the second question first. First question, I will refer to each one. But did I cap rate lower bound move? I don't recall it moved.

Richard, I think 4.35.

Last year was 4.35 also, right?

Last year, I believe it's 4.5. No. Yeah, I think 4.35 is the first time I'm seeing such a tight cap rate. And for Office also, it's 3.15. Last year, I'm not sure. I think it's closer to 3.25. A very slight movement.

I believe it's the same. I think it's the same as last year. Okay. Maybe each one you can double check and then we can get back later. What's the second question?

Consent for 2026.

Oh, risk. Yeah. Okay. To me, the biggest risk is actually interest rates because we have come down quite a bit over the last one to two years. And there is always this fear that, you know, we might start reversing the trend. Australia just high rates last week. So there's always this pressure. but I think Singapore is in a fairly stable environment so hopefully we will be I think and also from most people's perspective Sora has come down to low 1% how much lower can it go right so but I think there's a lot of liquidity still in the system there's still a lot in flow so hopefully Sora remains at the current levels and doesn't look like I think the risk to Sora going out is if the US rate starts going up. It doesn't look like that's happening anytime soon. But it's always the risk at the back of my mind. Second year, obviously, will be the economy, general economy. Last year, we have a lot of good things going for us. I mean, at the start of the year, we were forecasting a recession in Singapore and we ended the year at, what, 4.8% GDP growth. So that's a big swing from beginning of the year to the end of the year. Whether we are able to repeat last year's performance in the general economy, I don't know. So that could be a big risk. I think last year there was also a lot of pump priming, right? I mean, CDC vouchers and all that. So that could be, we'll see what the budget brings next week. So there could be some effect there. Third, I don't think it's a big risk, but people in the street will always put it as a risk. Of course, it's the completion of RTS this year. whether that will have an impact. I think we have talked about this at length many times with many of you. Different people have different opinions. So we'll see what happens. But we can't rule it out as a risk. Maybe we'll go back to the first question on cap rates.

The range actually compared to last year, year end is the same range for both the office and the retail. At least for the lower bound.

Can we go to Joy, please? Joy from HSBC. Congrats. Two questions from me. First on development, on Haogang. So if I look at the lower end of your cap rate, 4.35, do you think roughly about 70 to 100 basis points of spread is sufficient to compensate for development risk? And with Haogang, can we assume you want to look at redevelopment of your existing assets in the near term? So that's one. Second question is on MPI margins. So I think historically Q4, your retail MPI margin usually is lower. If I look at the quarterly trend, this quarter you actually bucked the trend. Your MPI margin is very strong. Can I understand what's the swing factor and can I take this as the base for next year? Thank you.

Okay, so I think on the development premium front, I mean, that's always a judgment, right? And when we say it's at least 5%, we didn't say it's 5%. So that's one. But if you look at 70, 80 bps, it sounds small, but it's 20% of the value when you move, when you have a compression of 80 bps is a At 4% is 20% of the value. So I don't know, is that enough for development premium? When developers do residential development, I think they price in typically a 10 to 15% margin. But let's just think of it, if we don't do this and somebody is developing and we have to buy it from them, five years later at 4.3%, would investors have preferred that? I don't know. I mean, it's a tough call. I think there's no right answer. It also depends on how we manage the cost. I think if we are able to manage the cost well. Of course, when we plan, it's all about execution of the development and how it turns out in five years. Nobody knows what the market is going to be like in five years. I mean, even if you assume the inflation of a certain range should theoretically go up by then. So if you are able to get entry yield of 5 plus percent then, 3,600 per square foot, to us that's reasonable. So it's a bit of a judgment call. But the reality is, I think it's hard to find an asset at account of yield in this market. as we have found out in the last few months um but of course we could also go and save go down the safe path and buy a core asset at maybe 4.2 4.3 percent um yeah so but we we think that this but i think for for the calculation for this is also a bit different it's not just simply comparing an asset to another asset i think we we like the location I think the location in this precinct is very underserved in terms of retail demand. I mean, I don't know, for those who stay around the area, you'll know that there is not that much in the neighbourhood. I think the neighbourhood is staff of a retail mall, a big retail mall, which is, which, you know, there's been quite a lot of new neighbourhoods in the area. You know, that's a very new, you know, from Hougang all the way to Sengkang Punggol. which obviously is a higher NPM margin. So it may not be a light for light when you compare year on year. Wait, what about physical retail? Oh... i think for retail we did have some cost uh savings i think utilities have costs have come down i think we have entered into better contracts last year so there were some utilities cost savings so that has improved our margins uh each one anything else to that yeah i think it's actually um in part your utilities savings is one and then there's a bit of rebates for electrical front um for total six probably you can see a little bit of that continuing uh but

I will say that this is a slightly improved MPI margin that we can expect for 2026 or so.

I think AEIs to us is BAU. So whether we did AUK or not, we will continue to go ahead with AEIs. That's the... I mean, yeah, so it's not... And I think Hougang actually doesn't really... See, the rationale of spreading out AEIs is that it tends to create a drag on our cash flows. Because when you do AEI, you have to sacrifice some MPI because you have to shut down some of the spaces to rejuvenate. The difference with Hougang is that you don't give up any MPI because you're not... you're not tearing down anything. There is definitely balance sheet consumption, but interest cost is capitalized during construction, so there is no drag on DPU as well. So the only cost to this, I guess, is gearing. So gearing will go up, but I think we are quite comfortable with the divestment of Bukit Panjang, we are gearing at 37.6%. So that gives us a very comfortable position. So in a way, we are not sacrificing any DPU to go into outcome. So it shouldn't affect our other BAU initiatives. So if a redevelopment comes along and it makes sense, it shouldn't matter whether we have done outcome or not. But of course, the only thing is whether we have the balance sheet to do the redevelopment. But I think we are fairly comfortable at 37.6%. It gives us a lot of depth here. every 1% for us is about how much 27 billion 200 so we are about maybe just under a billion from our debt here

Hi, morning. Just one quick question on the Aukang side. Does the $1.1 billion include capitalized interest costs? And secondly, on Bukit Panjang Plaza divestment proceeds, would you set that aside for development? Or is there a chance that you could actually redeploy during the next one to two years?

Okay, I think the short answer to the first question is yes, it includes the capitalized financing costs. I mean, it includes all of our construction costs and all the contingencies that we have provided as part of our normal planning purposes as well. Bukit Panjang proceeds, I mean, money is fungible. You can see as whether we had I mean, last year we made some acquisitions. You can see us topping up the balance sheet, or we can also use it to fund future acquisitions, you're right. In a way, selling at mid 4% is no different from, in fact, it's slightly cheaper than raising equity at, you know, currently we are at cost of equity is probably 4.8, 4.9%. So, yeah, so we do, we can use it to redeploy into future acquisitions, definitely.

Next thing is on forward guidance. Maybe just a comment. Reads P&L is probably one of the easiest to forecast. As Sheth has said, forward guidance is encouraged. So maybe next time we meet you, you can be the first brave soul. Thank you.

Maybe just to follow up on Aogang, don't mean to flunk this, but how did this come about? I mean, I don't think, you know, we generally don't participate in GLS sites, even as a joint venture partner, so how did this come about? Did you volunteer or, you know?

Yeah, okay. So, yeah, that's an interesting one. So if you had asked us a year ago whether we would do a pure development project, probably the answer might be closer to no than yes, probabilistically speaking. How did this come about? So I think one is, I mean, we have always been quite focused on growing over the last, and we have looked at many opportunities along the way. And we have also found that it's quite difficult to do acquisitions in Singapore, as you all might appreciate. um and a lot of assets that are available for sale have been sold at very aggressive pricing i mean i won't say aggressive maybe it's fair pricing uh five years later you could look back and think that oh wow that's cheap um so okay so then this uh site came about um and uh and it was it it has a fairly large commercial component i think if it was a small commercial component we probably won't look at it So then we think, and I think if it's not a big project, we also are less ready to look at it. The reason why we wanted to do Hougang, I think one is it's very sizeable enough, right? 1 billion, 1.1 billion of deployment. Secondly, competition. I think because not many people out there can do a residential commercial project. I mean we have seen from say for example the Clementine Mall bid, the competition was quite tough. When you have 10, 15 people bidding for the same project, the value gets completed away. We know that there probably won't be that many people who can bid for such a huge project. I mean if you add in the residential and the commercial component, the total development value is north of 2 billion. I mean there aren't that many parties in Singapore that can do that. uh and and in a way uh true to that it's there were only three parties that paid it of course we know the we know the likely two or three parties that were likely to play i mean uh so uh actually we look at it for a while since the site was announced but of course we didn't really want to invite competition so we didn't really put it out there obviously The alternative was for CLD, I mean the other consortium which was CLD and UOL consortium to bid. I mean the earlier conversation was that they will bid, win it or not. But if they win it, we can potentially just buy over from them, which is our normal process. But if they were to do that, then we will have to buy at a different price, which is fine because it's the risk. not that a higher price higher price doesn't always mean worse obviously because it's a de-risked product but the difference this time is that if they were to do that then they come bid as high as well because they have to price in the margin right so they can only bid uh maybe because when they sell it to us they also have to they have to hold it for five years and then sell it to us they probably have to bid in a certain margin so then we thought that okay if you come in directly then we can get rid of that uh that uh safety net for them and then we will be a little better than if they would do it themselves uh so i mean we debated uh that you know maybe that's the better outcome for everyone that's it also means that we have a higher probability of securing a win if we are able to if the read is able to come in directly and we know that very few other reads can do that because 1 billion, because there's a limit to how much development headroom you can do. So for us, our total AUM is 27 billion, 10% of that is 2.7, so it gives us very comfortable headroom, and still able to do other projects. For some of the other rates, probably we know that they are more limited by that, so we know that So that is our thinking, and that was a strategy that we went in with. And fortunately for us, that worked out relatively well. And despite that, we only won by a very thin margin, so we really needed that competitive pricing. But even though you won by a small margin, I think the pricing is generally, I mean, we are quite happy with the outcome. We think that buying at that price is fairly reasonable. It's probably no worse off than buying a brand new retail mall that is, you know, the risk at mid to low 4%, say, for example.

Some of these malls are like, sorry? Some of these malls at low 4% are better locations also. Uh,

from catchments. Depending on how we, yeah, it depends. Location, more central doesn't mean a better location, I guess. I think location to us means, depends on the catchment and the scarcity in the area as well.

Just one last question on reversion outlook, especially for retail. How does that look like and how does it stack up against your occupancy costs?

I think last year we have about a 6.6% reversion. This year I think we'll probably, I would say that we'll probably stay at moderate to about that level, meet single digits for retail reversions. I think that's the guidance we'll give.

For office retail, probably looking at now, I mean, 12 months later, a lot of things can change, but I think we're pretty much looking around mid-singles kind of reversion. how it stacks up against for the retail out-cost. I think if you look at the year-end occupancy cost, it's relatively okay, 17%, right? And downtown, if you look at the sub-urban, it's actually on the 16-ish kind of percent. So I would say out-cost perspective, they are still quite healthy. Of course, along the broader market, you see on and off, there's pockets of the retailers having some of these challenges. And I like for like basis, we probably have to tackle some of the localized kind of specific issues across the different trades. Like for example, we talk about cinemas, whether or not there's an immediate replacement to cinemas or we're taking a short-term kind of extension to some of them. So that will play out a little bit effect in terms of rent reversion. But I would say by and large, we should be okay in terms of the op cost and reversion.

Can we pass the mic to Gula, please? Thank you. Hi.

Gula here from The Edge. Okay, I've got a couple of questions on the office front because your occupancy fell. And in terms of the expiring rents, which is on this slide, slide 34, because they're a bit high for... but next year they're a bit high so I'm just wondering for this year and as well as this year so I'm just wondering whether you know you are you said mid single digit reversions for this year but I'm just wondering what you think is the outlook and why did your occupancy fall for that's the office front and then for the retail there's another retail question I just wanted what is the F&B percentage of the just the retail portion because I think you put it as 17 16 or 17 percent for the whole portfolio but but I noticed that you know your peers that only do retail very very high retail portions by GRI and by NLA

I'll take the office one first. If you look at the expiring rents, it's true that if you look at this 225 and 224, actually the expiring rent versus the market rent, they are kind of closing up. So it is much tighter now. So, how do we then actually explain the kind of outlook? I said a lot of things can change in the next 12 months, and we are looking at some of the leases that were in discussion for the office side. If we look at the consultants, actually they are a lot more bullish than us in terms of rental growth in 2006 as well as 2007, given that there's actually a little bit of tightness in supply, especially for good quality assets in centralized location. So they do expect the market rents to actually go up quite substantially. And then if you look at the expiring rents, naturally the growth in expiring rents is not going to go as fast as how the outlook of consultants' market rents goes. So that kind of supports a little bit of hope that some of these things that we set out, because if I give a very low guidance in terms of reversions, you all will think that I'm being conservative about it. So I think it's just realistically how we are looking at this. then the next thing i will look at is actually the expiry profile for assets right so if you look at how our expiry profile is like for office in the 262728 the kinds of uh the 2728 kind of is in the window where there's actually a tightness in terms of supply again so hopefully we can take advantage of the tightness and supply that supports a higher rent right to again negotiate for better outcomes for office portfolio

I think there's a second question on retail. I didn't really quite understand your question. When you say, are you talking about retail portion or office?

I'm talking about retail portion, F&B. What is the percentage of F&B in your retail malls? Because there's so much F&B, we all grow fat in the next few years because they have a lot higher rents than your cinema or your supermarket. So...

They don't necessarily have high risk.

And they keep on opening and closing, I mean these food places keep on opening and closing. I'm just wondering, and is it a risk for you?

We have a slide right on the percentage of our F&B. I think it's about 30 over percent. Okay, it says 17.8% here, but this is over our entire portfolio. But overall, our retail space is typically around, depending on which mall, probably about 30 odd percent. Your question is whether, how are they doing?

Whether there's too much F&B, especially when the RTS comes and everybody goes off to Malaysia. That's the point.

But I think actually people who go to Malaysia are less likely to be consuming. I mean, they will consume F&B, but I don't think that's the trade that will get affected most because everyone can only eat one lunch a day. So if you go to Malaysia, you can only eat one lunch. But you go there and buy groceries, you can buy like 10 detergents. So actually F&B is probably the least at risk to the RTS opening. Although there will be some leakage, but it will be very small. So we are not so worried about that. In a way, having more F&B is starting to be more defensive. I think F&B opening and closing has actually been part of retail trade for the longest time. It has been a bit more on the news lately, but I think a lot of the closures are also not really in our malls a lot of these opening closings you tend to find them in you know shop houses because the rent variance tends to be a bit higher because some of these shop houses can be very low rent for a long time and then suddenly when the owner wakes up one day or a new owner comes in and then you can have a rent adjustment. Whereas in malls, you are less likely to see that, right? I mean, in our contract, most of our rent escalations are 2-3%. We're seeing like average rental reversion of 6.6%. We never ever see 40% in our rental reversion. So you don't really see that. So in 6% rental reversion actually means 2% per annum, which is not significant. So most of the F&B that are in our malls uh it's tends to be able to survive as long as the business model is sensible and and is sustainable so those that are not able to survive typically means that they are not able to survive even if the rents don't increase because a two percent is already to make a difference to your to your business model and your in your in your sustainability right

Can I just ask a question on Clark Key as well? Because I think when you mentioned opening and closing, I mean, how Haiti-Laos is closed, have you decided what's going to come in its place and how are you going to, because Clark Key, you know, we've been to it and my colleagues have been to it, not me so much, but there's not much, I mean, it's not as buzzy as other some places.

Yeah. Hai Ti Lao does, closure does draw headlines. I wouldn't say it's one of those that open and close. Actually, Hai Ti Lao has been there from day one. And it's one of the first stores that opened. But... But we have rented out the space.

Maybe each one can elaborate. Firstly, I mean, thanks for coming to Clark Key and please do come more. I will say that actually it's a little bit, I can understand why people are saying, you know, like now Clark Key is less busy. But I think it's also a change in type of crowd that we are seeing in Clark Key. where it was previously a very loud very to almost some extent rowdy past a certain hour kind of crowd right now you kind of disperse the crowd across the day rather than just concentrated at night and then you have a lot of tourists because a lot of them comes by to the you know to board the boat and stuff like that So for the Hai Di Lao, we already have a replacement. And of course, I would say that it's not a finished product yet because a lot of things is also... If I say that actually I have exactly what Clark Key has to be for the market today, it's probably not true, right? It's a product that is evolving as we try to also find where is the threshold of the market's preference when it comes to your day and night shape mix. and then of course the other part that will be important for us is when eventually canning hill is completed uh then we will see you know when the whole precinct kind of be a bit enlivened where there's residential hotel tourism and all these things really we can again fine-tune that shape mix a little bit so there's an evolving process and in fact actually as i shared previously there's also an element of experiment that we are trying to take with card key so some of the tenants are deliberately kept short term or temporary right because we didn't want to sign on the tenant not sure whether that concept you know they can promise you a lot of things right but eventually you want to see the execution we don't see the market acceptance towards it and that's why we will try out some of these concepts and see how all these things pan out So it's a work in progress. I will say that there's a few good things that's happening. I mean, Zoop is going to do a renovation and like all brands, for a long time when everything is doing stabilized, nobody really go. But when you say it's going to do close down for renovation, suddenly everybody starts to go. Hooters, nobody went to Hooters for probably a while, but then suddenly everybody is asking what's going to happen to Hooters. so so i think that's that it's very inherent that all these things catch the headlines but at the end of the day when we see it's really that when you look at the occupancy cost of all the retailers we know some that works we know some that don't and that's where we will talk to the tenants either we help them to grow their sales if not then we will have to look at replacements so i think if you see across some of the closures across i think recently there's another one about you know some of the closures in malls right oftentimes it's not just about the rent it's really about manpower constraints so some of the retailers that we spoke to previously they did share that they have over expanded and they are looking at how to write size because they don't simply the manpower constraint manpower cost always makes a lot of the operating cost not sustainable and then that's why naturally then we will feel the pressure because at the end of the day where they want to protect their margins right and something else goes up they will try to find a card from other place So I think there's all these things that's ongoing. But I'll say F&B is one that we do see a shift in the consumer patterns, right, where the where now actually they go to something that's not overly pricey but they like something innovative experiential and everything so like chick-fil-a when it opens right the first month is very good sushi then very good but and the challenge is that when we bring all these new to market in right we are not here to do a tenant for one or two months we want to make sure that that kind of product that they do is actually something that can sustain their sales going forward And that's why I think there are a lot of challenges for some of the F&B operators. It's not difficult to open F&B, but when they start to open F&B that is offering something that pretty much everybody is offering without something that's differentiating and still without the scale of operational efficiency, that's where they are under pressure in terms of their survivability.

Go way past my two questions. Just one more. Australia. What are your views on your Australian assets given that the RBA moved cash rates up 25 basis points.

The third of the... Thanks for the question on Australia. Actually, Australia is generally doing quite well. If you look at the market consensus on Australia is that things have bottomed up probably last year. and uh rents are actually going up in uh at least in the core cbd or cbd actually occupancy is quite strong um there's been quite a unlike some of the other cities in australia sydney is holding up quite well and there's a bit of a flight to quality right so supply is getting tighter uh rents are going up vacancies are coming off and the incentives in australia are also coming off so actually it's which is the reason why if you look at australia Today there are actually quite a bit of capital market transactions going on. So people are actually getting a bit more optimistic in terms of what's happening in Australia. If you look at occupancy in Australia, it's also picked up slightly across our properties.

Perhaps now we'll turn to the online audience. Thank you for being with us virtually. We have four questions. First one is actually from Andy, OCBC. Can you provide the debt breakdown schedule for the Algang development project?

I don't have the exact amount but a large part of it will be in this FY given that we will be paying for the land acquisition

I don't know what's the I'm guessing the question actually is not about that it's about the how much is needed per year the deployment schedule the cash deployment schedule for the next few years whether it's that or otherwise

Like Malian said, of course, the land costs will be paid this year. So, I mean, we'll be paying within 90 days, I think, the 100% of the land costs. And then, of course, there's stamp duty as well. But for construction costs and the rest of it, it will be progressive because construction will probably begin only in 2020. after the planning period, which I think probably is going to be about one and a half years. So construction will really be in 2027, and then that construction cost will be drawn down progressively.

Another question we have from Helen, CBRE. Will CICT consider another development project before Algang's completion, as we have still that headroom available?

I think I mean it's a hard question because it depends on what's the opportunity right but I think quite less likely but I mean like I mentioned earlier AEIs continue to go on so depending on how you view what's development to us AEIs is BAU whether we will if the question is whether we will bid for another development project which I think is what the question is driving at probably less likely I mean we try to not manage too many projects on ongoing basis let's do this really well first and do a track record of doing executing development projects well before we look at subsequent projects but of course never say never if something is very attractive that comes up who knows but I think the current thinking now is quite unlikely

Okay, the next question we have from Derek DBS and Mr. Yap. What is the status of the ION text transparency?

I think no new updates on that. So as I mentioned in the last earnings update, so this is unlikely to come anytime soon.

Okay, and then the last question from Fraser. He's congratulating us on the strong results. The like-for-like revenue growth seems a tad low versus the strong reversion. Why is the cost? Is it due to AEI?

What's the like-for-like growth? I think it was about 1.4%. 1.4%. uh okay so i think 1.4 percent i guess a little bit of that i mean if you look at our reversions um it's about you know call it six percent average two percent so uh should we be tracking closer to two percent it could Possibly, some of it could be possibly due to the AEI. But maybe we can break down the details and then get back to you, Fraser.

Yeah, Fraser, we'll get back to you. Thank you for the question. Okay, now we turn our attention back to the physical audience. Jovi?

Thank you. Hi, Jovi also from Singapore. Thanks for the presentation. Just one small question here also about retail. Combining a few threats mentioned here with the news of Hougang, with the line from the slides about establishing a strategic foothold in the northeast region, and reading that along with your comments on a lack of retail offering for debt catchment, and also your comments on RTS, Just broadly, what is your thinking about the entire north of Singapore right now? Would it be a catchment of interest to CICT? Perhaps somewhere near like the Turf Club, crunchy area, away from the more crowded established areas now?

I don't think we have a specific view in terms of I mean, we went into, you know, in Singapore it's always, in real estate in general, it's always very localised. I mean, to talk about north in general, it's very hard. You can have two more things to each other and the performance can be quite different. So it always depends on the actual location, right? I think generally we are Singapore centric. We like Singapore in general. If there's an opportunity in Singapore, we will definitely look at it. And when we look at it, we will evaluate obviously holistically in terms of whether that particular location makes sense for us. But definitely we did mention that one of the reasons why we went to outcome was because we don't have anything in the North East. Because it always helps us to expand our customer base. I mean, we have a loyalty reward program. The more malls we have across, it gives our customer base a wider selection and offering as well, right? Because then we can then access the database and customer base in the Northeast. Because people naturally always shops somewhere near their residence. Yeah, so I think we are not We're fairly agnostic in terms of whether it's north, east. Obviously, I think there is market talk about how the northern part of Singapore is going to be more affected by RTS. I guess partly true, but you will also benefit from the inflow, so there will be a certain vibrancy at the entrance. So maybe more leakage than less, but I don't know. For us, fortunately, we don't have that much exposure in that area. Whether we see that as a, I think like I said, we will look at it specifically on each individual location on its own merit.

Okay, pass the mic to Vijay.

Yeah, hi, morning. Congrats on a good set of results. I think most of my questions are asked. Just two questions from me. In terms of office, Singapore office occupancy drop during this quarter, maybe can I know the reason why? And specifically with office rents hitting multi-year high, do you see pushback from tenants in terms of increasing it higher some tenants moving to out of CBD areas that's my first question second question is in terms of retail sales I think if I look at your tenant sales overall tenant sales it looks a bit soft I think it's in line with broadly with market while I expect you to outperform any specific reasons and with this level of sales do you still see pushing up rents possibility in next few years thanks okay maybe I will take the second question and then each one can take the first question

I think tenant sales, we are up about maybe, yeah, I think it's on the board now. Call it just slightly over a percent for the year. But I think we also have to be mindful that the first half of the year was a slightly more cautious environment. So if you strip out the effects of the first half, if you look at it on the second half alone, which was, I think I mentioned it earlier in my presentation as well, we're up close to 2% year on year. Which I guess is, I mean, sales growing at inflationary rates, I guess it's business as usual. Whether we should be outperforming that, I think it's okay. I think we are quite happy with 2% growth on a year-on-year basis. If anything else, if nothing else, it's in line with our venture reversions of about 6% per annum. which then allows us to maintain the same occupancy cost. But as we have also mentioned a couple of times, our occupancy cost is actually not super demanding at the moment. We are at 17 odd percent. Pre-COVID, we are about 19 percent. And our sales have gone up quite significantly, probably much faster compared to our rents over the last few years. Sales always lead rents, right? I mean, your sales have to go up before your rents can go up. So we have already had the benefit of sales going up quite strongly the last few years. So we do have rooms, I think, for rents to grow up, to catch up with the occupancy cost. But if nothing else, at least if you continue to grow at 2-3% sales per annum, at least you are able to maintain the same occupancy cost as this year. So I wouldn't call it a weak growth rate.

maybe the first question on drop in office occupancy yeah okay so for fourth quarter actually about the main reason for the drop in occupancy is actually some transitional vacancies that we see in the singapore office portfolio so of course we have one i think previously i mentioned that one of the city tenants actually left so that one on its own is quite a big void and six by three row we have a few of the kind of smaller kind of tendencies that expire so these are kind of things that we we are aware of ahead of time and so actually they're really some of the space has a really backfield uh so like by example the one in capital tower about 20 plus percent um backfield and then it's fortunately at a positive rent reversion and The ones at 6 Battery Road, we have also backfilled some of the spaces. Some of the spaces in part of these drop-in occupancies also we have to set aside for some of the things like for example fire compliance work at 6 Battery Road before we can put it back out on the market. yeah so it's largely that i will say that if um so we we are aware that i will even say that going forward in the next quarter or so we probably will see a little bit of volatility in a little bit of these occupancies because some of these movements in the market is quite natural especially at a point in time where we see movements in the market as you know despite the quality there's people consolidating expansion and then there will be natural down times to some of these things yeah I think there's a second part of that question where you talk about whether tenants push back on rents. I would say actually not really at this point. Of course, naturally everybody is a bit cautious in terms of with all these global uncertainty, market uncertainty, then of course they try to be a bit more prudent when it comes to rent negotiations. But by and large, I say the broader themes that is still happening, flight to quality, because ultimately it's about talent attraction, talent retention. uh so centrality is actually a key theme not just in singapore in australia as well as we see the core cbd markets are the one that always recover and grows fastest So there's actually companies are prepared to pay for the right space, given that in the view of the broader business, actually real estate cost is just one function of the other parts that they are concerned about. In fact, actually, right now, the challenge for a lot of them is not so much the ongoing rent in the monthly payment perspective, but it's actually more the initial capex that is involved in moves. So that's the reason why you can see in many cases, right, some of the landlords are starting to do fitted out offices to help, you know, and companies bring down the initial setup costs and all these things then becomes rentalized into the rents. So that's gaining a little bit of popularity across quite a few buildings in CBD. But by and large, I think that The companies are aware that ultimately there's only so much space that's available and they have to make a choice whether all this ESG central location fits their business better or cost efficient. The delta between decentralized and CBD is still not wide enough for them to then say that actually a decentralized location is a better way to go for just pure cost reasons.

Do we have any more questions? Thanks, sir.

Hey, good morning. Dexter from Bloomberg. Can I ask, to hop back on this point, on the RTS, do you have actually done any modeling to talk about leakage or modeling in terms of how much leakage you would see on that front? And also on the retail side, again, sorry to hop on this point, but what kind of demand are you seeing now in terms of tenants for your retail malls? Is it still largely coming from overseas, the usual suspects. And on the office side, obviously there has, capital market seems to be improving, like you kind of pointed to. Is there any, if you guys are approached to sell some of your assets, will you be considering that? Thank you.

If we have... your question is if we are approached to sell some of our assets will we contemplate the office side yeah on the office side i mean we have sold off so we are not adverse to selling assets we sold off 21 quality which is an office asset so we are not adverse to selling office asset so i think between office or retail I wouldn't say we have a preference over either because I think the cycles always changes so for us it always depends on what is the proposition in hand you know if someone offers us you know I mean never say never if someone offers us you know a price that's very attractive I think we will always take a look we're not we are not I mean If it's attractive enough, we will definitely always take a look. That's what I would say. Yeah. So that's on the office and retail front. I think the first part of your question is on RTS leakage. I know you have done some modeling. I think we did before. I think there are two parts to this, right? Question is... The existing leakage, which has already happened, and the incremental leakage as a result of RTS. I think existing leakage, I think when people talk about leakage, there's some confusion about the two, because actually existing leakage doesn't affect the numbers anymore. They have already leaked. So it forms a new base. So whatever delta from a new basis does not make a difference. So what we should concern about is the incremental leakage from the RTS, which I think is a bit hard to model, I think. if you look at it from a pure I mean if you look at it from a today the people who drive are likely to remain drivers into JB because you cannot substitute that away you drive because you want to be able to move around from point to point and because you spend a whole day there and you want to be able to you know if you have the ability to drive most likely you drive So I don't think that will substitute a way to RTS. So RTS is likely to create the additional demand from people who used to take the causeway bus. I think there is an existing causeway bus which I have taken to test it out and see how convenient it is. It is already very convenient because just from one side of the causeway to the other side only takes like 10-15 minutes. But of course there is that additional time that you have to take from your house to the edge of the causeway. but just crossing the causeway itself actually is really quite already quite convenient but of course with the rts it makes it even more convenient maybe 15 minutes can cut down to five minutes so likely you will take away the demand from the those who are currently taking bus and move it over to rts but that's not incremental leakage the incremental leakage is the people who are currently not going to johor and then suddenly decide to go to johor So if you are currently not going to Johor, why is that? And why would RTS make you go to Johor? Must be because of the added convenience and the slightly shorter time. But actually it doesn't take that much of a long time today anyway. So if you are the type that will go to Johor to shop for cheap goods, you are probably already doing it today. So I think the incremental effect to me is not as big, but I could be wrong. But to me, people who have the propensity to shop for cheaper products in Johor are probably already doing it. But what RTS will also do is that it allows Malaysians to then more easily come into Singapore. And this facilitates cross-border labour flow. Right? Which then allows us to tap into incremental demand in terms of labour flow both ways. And you also... And RTS also, I mean, the whole Johor is booming, right? And there will likely to be greater population growth in Johor, either organic or, you know, I mean, you can't have economic activity without people, right? So you are likely to attract people from other parts of Malaysia coming down to Johor. So there are a lot of things that Johor doesn't have that Singapore has. Some of these people will likely want to come to Singapore over weekends, etc., And then you have expats and all that moving to your hall because of all the development of industrial activity. So that is also the incremental benefit. And previously, these people... probably may or may not drive into Singapore. And then RTS now creates an avenue for them to come to Singapore. So I don't think it's all bad. It's not all doom and gloom. So there could be some incremental leakage as what I mentioned earlier. But I think it's probably not as big as it is because all the leakage that has likely to happen has already probably happened. But it also facilitates flow back to Singapore. So that's how I would think about it. But it remains to be seen. So let's see how that goes. Was there another question on that? I think that's about it.

Would you have a number on that point? Because it seems like a negative in a sense from what you implied. And on the retail side again, can I also ask, in terms of just adding, in terms of softness, I think we talked about it just now, but are you seeing change in consumer habits in terms of, we see the The footfall seems to be increasing, but the spending seems to be coming down. Have you seen that in your malls as well?

Sorry, you were asking if we have a number for the sales leakage? Yes. Okay, so have we done the modelling? Yes, we have done the modelling. It won't be the job if I didn't do. one so um whether it's that number i can share with you i only can say that it's not a number that i will worry and do sleep over then if anything i will refer you to dbs report probably that was a good reference point I hope that I addressed that question. So on the retail consumer's pattern, I would say that generally, I think, for example, it's very hard to just use a single line to capture the whole market shift. But of course, what we see is a little bit of, at the risk of generalization, we do see that people are moving away from very rapid ticket items. So you start to see people are trying to spend on experiential dining, experiential entertainment, lifestyle elements. Of course, there's a little bit of shift towards more like sports and healthy kind of living things. But the shift in trend also does not always reflect in the kind of sales that you see, because like, for example, you talk about year-on-year if you compare say for example sports equipment and then you look at I mean just using Brompton by example right you see it coming down doesn't mean that less people are cycling compared to three five years ago it's just a year-to-year basis because it grew a lot the prior year and the base is high and then it came off subsequent but by and large that trend inherently directionally is still going a certain way uh we also see that actually for example ip is doing uh ip collectibles are doing very very well you know like everybody um i'm not sure i i we used to ask who buy blind boxes now we ask who have not bought one before right and uh i don't know if any of you have not bought one uh but even if you don't really believe in it people will still try and buy and in fact we do also see like Some of the traditional operators that sell toys to kids are now also trying to pivot a little bit into this adult kind of thing. So toys, games, all these things no longer become something that used to be for kids. Now it's actually the one that's spending a lot of all these things. Fortunately for us, I won't say unfortunate, but it's actually the adults. So that's the kind of shift that we do see in some of these consumer patterns. And that's also the kind of things that we always say that the retail products are evolving. Then we talk about all these, you know, foziers and whatnot. Are we seeing a lot of brands from overseas, right? You know, in the past, right, the comment has always been that, oh, malls are cookie-cutter malls. So then, of course, when we start to bring in overseas brands, we start to say, oh, there's too many overseas brands, new-to-market brands. And then what does it mean for local? It's finding the right balance. I don't think in any of our malls, I can't say for the rest, but I don't think in any of our malls you can say that our malls are predominantly tenants from one particular location. It's not a local versus foreigner thing. It's really getting the right mix right. That when somebody goes to our mall, They can buy things that is from local fashion. They can buy a local F&B. They can also, if they choose to do something else, you know, Chinese food is very, very good. Today, you have options and I think that's important when people come to the mall. Because especially the mall nearest to you, right, it's all one style, one pattern, one product line, right? I don't think you'll want to go back there even though it's the nearest mall to you all the time. So overseas exposure, we do see continued interest from Chinese brands, of course. But that aside, we also see a lot from the western part, right? So like, for example, again, I bring back Chick-fil-A, I bring back, you know, like new concepts from we see like permutations right in what like for example certain things that tend to be high cost items now they try to make it more mass pricing so people can still experience the same thing for a much cheaper price so you see some of these things evolving along the way yeah okay thanks

I'm just mindful of time. Maybe we'll take one last question from John. Can we pass the mic to John, please?

Congrats on the very strong TPU growth. My question relates on growth. And how that change your view on country allocation? So for example, would you be open to expand into retail in Hong Kong? Would you be open to expand into office in Japan? So right now, locally, asset prices are quite high. And given that you are already the largest street in Asia-Pac, would you be a bit underrepresented overseas? And would this be the right time to expand more overseas?

Interesting. Thank you, thank you. No, so I think the question is whether If one day we, I guess, I mean, you preface your question with, because of the new growth mindset, whether we will look at overseas. I guess the assumption is that if we want to continue to grow, will we run out of opportunities in Singapore? Because at the end of the day, if we have to, if we are able to find something in Singapore, we'd rather spend the money in Singapore and continue to grow in Singapore. Question is, have we run out of opportunities? Because you're asking if this year is the right time to look at overseas. No, I think we have shown in our track record that we are still able to find opportunities and decent, sizable opportunities that continue to be accretive, financially make sense for us and puts our portfolio in a good position. I mean, we did... This Ao Kang is also another way that we deploy capital in Singapore as well. And that also is another reason why we also look at it because it offers us another way to grow in Singapore. I don't think we have run out of opportunities. I mean, there are still so many assets in Singapore that we can look at without going into details and names. So I think the short answer is if we are able to deploy the next dollar in Singapore, we'd rather do that than going overseas. Do we like Hong Kong and Japan exposure? I think Hong Kong... it's probably going through quite a bit of challenges as we can see in some of the other our sister REITs that have assets there rental reversions are still on a negative trend I don't think it's something that we will be keen to look at if you ask me. And as I mentioned, I think most of our investors, I think, prefer us to still be predominantly Singapore. I think we have also addressed some of these questions in previous. I think, in fact, if we have a choice, I guess we may even look at reconstituting some of our overseas portfolio if possible before we look at growing if possible. Oh, with Japan? It wasn't on my mind, so I guess I forgot about that. I guess that was an indirect way of answering your question.

Okay, I think that's all the time we have. Before we conclude, Tristan, would you like to share some closing remarks?

No, I think this is a very good set of results and I really want to thank all of you for continuing to support us. We know that this sets the bar even higher for us, makes it 2026 a bigger hurdle to to climb over but we will continue to work hard push for results and stay disciplined in terms of what we do I think our team is we have a very strong team I think credit to everyone sitting here and everyone sitting there that's the reason why we are able to deliver on so many fronts I think it's not just the acquisition front although that's the things that a lot of people focus on but actually organically The organic assets still makes up 95% of our portfolio and if we are able to deliver performance from organic assets, that will make our job a lot easier actually in terms of looking for growth. um yeah so hopefully we continue to deliver but uh we know it's it gets much harder and harder each time okay uh thank you i think we have something right outside right yes yeah if you have a further question please feel free to reach out to us um otherwise have a great day and those in person and join the refreshments outside thank you thank you thank you