Commerzbank Ag Ord New

Good morning and welcome to our conference call. We are looking forward to present and discuss our performance of the first quarter. We had a strong start in 2024. The first quarter, with its record results, clearly supports our equity story. Our earnings power has significantly improved. Both client segments effectively manage the rates environment and successfully develop their fee business. The good development of our revenue base is the foundation of our strong net result of 747 million euros. This translates into a healthy return on tangible equity of 10.5%. Obviously, the double-digit return in Q1 is seasonally supported by high client activity and low risk provisions. But it also includes a burden of more than 300 million from Swiss franc loans in Poland. Hence, it is another good step towards achieving our targets With our client-driven business model in a rates environment between 2% and 3% until 2027, Commerzbank will be able to earn its cost of capital. On this path to 2027, we are very confident to reach at least 8% return on tangible equity for 2024. And let's keep in mind that the current rate, the current return is based on a very high capital level. With 14.9% in the first quarter, we run 140 basis points above our target ratio, which translates into more than 2 billion of capital not considering any future earnings. In essence, it has never been clearer than today that Commerzbank has a huge potential for capital return, and we will deliver on this. Strong performance in the first quarter has been achieved in a very dynamic macro environment. Recessionary trends, fading rate cut expectations, political uncertainties to name just a few require strong navigation skills of our whole management team. So far we did well and going forward we tend to see the glass half full than rather half empty. The German leading indicators point to a pickup of GDP. German PMI and IFO came in better than expected. We are however not out of the woods and challenges remain. But German Mittelstand is highly resilient and shows creativity in coping with the challenges. Overall, we do no longer expect a recession in Germany for 2024. Looking at inflation, we are not strong believers of a fast track towards 2%. We are rather convinced that the inflation problem is not yet solved. Service prices should continue to rise because of rapidly increasing wage costs. Hence, core inflation is likely to stabilize well above 2% and should prevent ECB from easing their monetary policy significantly. We expect the ECB to cut rates by 75 basic points by the end of this year, largely in line with current market expectations. The expected sticky inflation requires us to keep the high level of cost discipline to safeguard our targeted cost-income ratios. Loan demand in Germany is still muted. When talking to German Mittelstand clients, you take away three key messages. First, they are cautious regarding investments in Germany. This is because of an unstable framework for reliable investment cases. Second, they actively tackle the situation by investing abroad, especially when it comes to add-on investments. Third, Commerzbank is their key banking partner. They want us at their side not only for domestic, but especially when it comes to international business. Our deep understanding of their needs and our global presence along trade corridors significantly drive our Mittelstand business. Overall, our customer-centric business model with high asset quality pays off and provides tailwinds for our further business development. And this leads me to the update. on our management priorities for 2024, which we presented with our full year 23 disclosure. First on capital return. We delivered 1 billion euros for 2023 by means of a 600 million buyback and a 35 cent dividend. Our next step is planned for August. If H1 figures come in as expected, we will apply for a next buyback as part of the planned payout for 2024. On fee income, we had a good start in 2024. Corporate clients did exceptionally well and the run rate in private and small business customers was stable compared to last year. The additions from Akila and Global Payments GV after closing later in the year, I'm very confident to reach or exceed our 4% growth target in fee income for 2024. And our standing in the German market provides us with additional confidence. We see ourselves well positioned in a competitive market. As our new business model gains more traction every month, we convert more leads into business. This additional market share will help to offset fading tailwinds from the rates environment. This leads me to the third priority. Strict performance and execution management. Two topics are on the top of the agenda when it comes to business steering. First, stringent performance management on fee generating business. Senior sales management in the business divisions are laser focused on fee business and constantly challenged and supported by the whole management team. Second, cost income ratio steering is already well established and starts with strict cost discipline. The order is clear. Additional revenues provide leeway for business initiatives and investments, and it's not the other way around. In February, I pointed out that customer loyalty is extremely important for achieving our goals. Step by step, we make good progress in this respect, and the recent awards won proof that we are on the right track. In the field of private customers, Commerzbank and Comdirect have been awarded as Best Branch-Based Bank and Best Direct Bank, respectively. Furthermore, Commerzbank has been awarded by Global Finance Magazine as Best Bank in Germany. And also when it comes to employee satisfaction, Q1 provided us with encouraging results. The employee survey showed an improved sentiment and spirit, but there is clearly further upside potential. We as a management team are highly dedicated to improving employee satisfaction. As one part of this, we all will further strengthen the high level of interaction with staff in Germany and abroad. Let me conclude with my key takeaways for today. We have made a further step towards our targets for 2027 and to earn our cost of capital. We had a strong start in 2024 with a return on tangible equity of 10.5%. And we confirm our outlook for 2024, and especially the increase of net income compared to 2023. We are highly confident to deliver a payout of at least 70% for 2024, translating into 1.6 billion euros of capital return. And now Bettina will walk you through the financial. Over to you.

Thank you, Manfred, and also good morning from my side. Before I start with the financials, and in particular for those who have followed Commerzbank for a while, I want to quickly mention the changes in our disclosure. The aim is to simplify the disclosure but give more details in the areas where they matter. We have therefore put even more emphasis on the two key revenue drivers, interest income and fee income. On the other hand, we discontinued the differentiation between underlying and reported revenues, as exceptional items have lost relevance in the last quarters. In the appendix, you can still find a table detailing the 28 million exceptional revenue items this quarter. I hope you will find the new format helpful. Our investor relations team is very happy to take your feedback. And now to the financials of the quarter. As Manfred already said, we had a very good start to the year with a record operating result of nearly 1.1 billion despite booking €318 million provisions for ethics loans at MBank. This led to a net result of €747 million and a double-digit RTE for the quarter. We have grown customer revenues and managed costs in line with our target. With a cost-income ratio of 58%, we are well on track to reach our target of 60% for the year. The quality of our loan book remains high. reflected in the moderate risk result and the further improved regulatory capital ratio of 14.9%. So overall, we made good progress in all relevant dimensions. I will now go through the revenues in detail, followed by costs and the risk result. Overall, revenue growth has been 3% year-on-year. Adjusting for provisions for ethics loans at MBAC, revenue growth has been 8%. This is based on good customer activity in both customer segments, reflected in interest and fee income, but also the fair value result improved by 19 million based on good capital markets business with our customers. Other income, excluding provisions for FX loans at MBank, is 21 million higher, reflecting the early repayment of some legacy loans. I will touch on the FX loans later and will now focus on NII and NCI. we maintained net interest income on the same level reached last quarter, a very good result and above our expectations. Corporate clients' NII is 28 million lower quarter-on-quarter due to an increasing deposit better driven by changes in the deposit mix and overall stable deposit volumes. Private and small business customers in Germany could increase deposit volumes more than compensating a higher better. As there have been offsetting effects between others in consolidation and PSBC, it is best to compare their quarterly interest income development in combination. In total, their NII increased by 25 million quarter on quarter. MBank has maintained interest income on the same level as in Q4. The next slide provides an overview of the deposit and loan volume developments of Commerzbank ex-MBank. Loan volumes have been stable in both customer segments. we have seen slight growth from investment loans in international corporates and overall a steady contribution to P&L from the loan business. On deposits, the shift out of side deposits to term and call deposits in both segments is still ongoing. However, PSPC attracted significant new money in call accounts, growing total deposit volumes by 9 billion, or 6%. These deposits contribute to revenues but come clearly at a relatively higher deposit data. This brings me to the NII outlook for 2024 on slide 11. Interest income remained at a higher than anticipated level in the first quarter, supported by the stronger than expected 9 billion deposit growth in PSBC Germany, with total deposits reaching 261 billion. We expect deposit volumes to be only moderately higher on average in the rest of the year. As mentioned, the additional deposits have been P&L accretive but come at a higher beta, bringing the average beta to 35% in Q1 earlier than originally anticipated. Assuming average stable volumes for the rest of the year, we expect average beta to increase with lower ECB rates. To crush the effect, we have already reduced the rates offered for new call accounts in anticipation of future rate cuts and will continue to adjust our pricing. With this active management and increasing attractiveness of securities at lower interest rates, we might see some outflow of deposits later in the year. But our aim is clear, to optimize the balance between volume and price. Further, the forecast for the ECB deposit rate is now around 3.8% on average for 2024, with the first rate cut in June. This is higher than the expectations in February, where the forwards predicted an average ECB rate of around 3.5%. The benefit from the replication portfolio has not materially changed, but we intend to increase the size of the portfolio. The aim is to stabilize future NII by locking in longer-term rates. Our outlook for loan volumes and margins is unchanged. Now looking at MBank. MBank has raised the outlook for interest income. With interest rates in Poland predicted to largely remain at current levels, we now expect MBank's NRI to be above last year's. In total, our overall 2024 outlook for net interest income has improved from 7.9 billion to 8.1 billion. Let's now move to commission income. The usual seasonal pattern has driven net commission income in the first quarter. This has been more pronounced than usual in corporate clients, which had an exceptionally strong start across all product and client groups. PSPC Germany's commission income has been on the same level as in Q1 last year, when excluding a one-off from Commerz Real. And Bank also had a good start, slightly increasing net commission income. As an add-on to Agonic Growth, we will start to benefit from our recent acquisitions later in the year. Overall, we are very confident that we will reach our 4% growth targets. Given the importance for future revenue growth, we provide you with a further breakdown of the Commission income on slide 13. In corporate clients, all three main fee-generating product lines have grown in the quarter. Capital markets, and in particular bond issuances and syndications, were extremely active in the first quarter, leading to a 9% fee growth year-on-year. In cash and trade, we have seen stronger international business surpassing the level seen in Q1 last year. And finally, the lending business generated more from domestic guarantees and loan fees. PSBC Germany had underlying commission income on the level of Q1 last year. The securities business ex commercial was slightly better, supported by higher securities volume, which continued to grow in the quarter to now 230 billion, supported by the current market performance. The payment business was stable. Let's move to costs on slide 14. We have continued with our approach of maintaining strict cost discipline. Operating expenses ex-M-Bank are nearly on the same level as last year, as salary increases and investments were compensated by active cost management. Overall costs are down 11% year-on-year. Compulsory contributions decreased in 2024, as contributions to the single resolution fund were suspended after it reached its target volume. mBank has increased operating expenses as a result of business growth and ethics effects. This is in line with mBank's cost income ratio steering. Overall, we are confident that we will reach our cost income ratio target of 60% for 2024. The next slide details the risk result. As in the first quarter of last year, the risk result was moderate in Q1. It was driven by a few single cases and releases. This is again testament to the high quality of our loan book. There has been only a minor change in the top-level adjustment, with a net release of 30 million as a result of the usual quarterly review, based on slightly improved macroeconomic assumptions. This concludes the overview of the key line items, and I will now move to the results summary. Our record operating result is based on the good performance of all customer segments, with NBank being lower year-on-year only due to higher provisions for stress-ranked mortgages. Others and consolidations lower result is mainly due to adjustments in the replication portfolio, which are neutral on group level. The tax rate is again slightly elevated at nearly 30%, but below the 35% level we have seen last year. This is due to provisions for FX loans that are not tax-deductible. The full-year tax rate should be on a similar level. On the next slide, I will briefly cover the operating segments starting with corporate clients. Corporate clients' record result is broad-based. All client groups contributed to the solid fee growth. This has more than compensated lower revenues from deposits compared to the last quarter. The operating result was further strengthened by lower costs. The return on capital also improved further, not only due to the good result, but also due to lower RWA as ratings improved for several large corporates. PSPC Germany also had a record quarter. Private customer success in attracting deposits led to higher revenues and was further supported by the adjustment of the replication portfolio in Q4 last year. Small business customers also benefited from the replication portfolio, but to a smaller extent. The operating result further reflects a very benign risk result as well as lower costs. With RWA on the same level as Q1 last year, this led to a strong increase of the return on equity to more than 40%. On an operating level, MBank had its best quarter ever. MBank continues its growth path. We firmly believe they will continue to deliver a great underlying performance. as in past quarters a significant part of mBank's profitability is eaten up by provisions for the legacy Swiss franc mortgages. mBank has booked 318 million this quarter and continues to very proactively reach out to customers seeking settlement agreements for these mortgages. So far, nearly 16,000 settlements have been agreed. Nevertheless, it is quite likely that further provisions will be required in the course of the year albeit below last year's level. In Q2, we anticipate to book provisions for the prolongation of credit holidays by the Polish government. On current estimates, this will be a burden of around 80 million. Although well below their underlying potential, we nevertheless expect MBank to contribute more to group results than last year. Finally, a quick look at others in consolidation. Others and consolidations operating loss is mainly driven by the effects of adjustments in the replication portfolio that are neutral on group level. These effects should reduce over the year but will still be a drag overall. The operating result therefore should improve in the next quarters. While also highly dependent on valuation effects that are hard to predict, I nevertheless expect the operating result to be more or less neutral for the financial year. This concludes the segmental view. I will now move to RWA and capital development on the next slide. The CET1 ratio has improved to 14.9%, further increasing our buffer above regulatory requirements. This is due to 2 billion lower risk-rated assets. The driver has been improved ratings of several larger corporates. Capital has been nearly unchanged, with a targeted capital return to shareholders of at least 70%, we are not including the quarterly net results in capital into a year. When our recent acquisitions are closed, we will see a small impact of around 10 basis points in our capital ratio. We currently expect closing in Q2. This brings me to our outlook for capital distribution for 2024. With our capital buffer well above regulatory requirements and the record result of the first quarter, we are making good progress to fulfill the requirements for a substantial capital return this year. Further, we have received the authorization from the AGM to again repurchase up to 10% of outstanding shares. If Q2 develops as expected, we will have a strong basis to apply for the next share buyback with the H1 results. This will be a first step towards reaching the payout target of at least 70%, as laid out by our capital return policy. And now to conclude with our updated outlook for 2024 on slide 23. As mentioned, we have improved our outlook for interest income from 7.9 billion to 8.1 billion and confirm our target to grow fee income by 4%. We confirm our cost income ratio target of 60% and continue to expect a risk result of less than 800 million. We expect the CAT1 ratio to decrease during the year, mainly due to planned RWA growth, but to be still well above 14% at year end. Our outlook for the net result is unchanged. We continue to target a payout ratio of at least 70%, but obviously not more than the net result, consisting of a dividend and share buybacks in accordance with our capital return policy. And please keep in mind that a share buyback is subject to approval by the ECB and the German Finance Agency. With the targeted payout, the total capital return yield will be above the 9% we delivered for 2023. This confirms our commitment to return the majority of earnings to our shareholders and should be a key element of an investment case for Commerzbank. Thank you very much for your attention and we are now very happy to take your questions.

And the first question comes from . Over to you.

Thank you very much for taking my two questions. They're both related to net interest income. The first one is, could you please tell us the exit beta at this point? And the 8.1 billion target that you know half in 2024, can you talk about what beta you're assuming for the year and what exit beta you're actually assuming for 2024, if you can talk about that, even if not detailed numbers? And the second question is on replication portfolio. You mentioned you're pushing out the benefit. It does have a negative impact on 24, but you don't tell us what the positive impact is on 2025 and beyond. If you could talk, please, in that context around the 7.9 billion NII target in 2025, is that still intact or should we revise that? Thank you.

So, thank you, Kian. Yes, I mean, we have seen with the 35% in the Q1 somehow higher deposit that we originally expected just due to the fact also that we have seen much higher inflow on the private client side than we expected. So, it's all this interplay between interest rate level volumes and deposit better. And we have now adjusted pricing. So, Now, deposit better should go down, but then, clearly, with the first cut of the ECB, the deposit better will go up. So, we are assuming, in the moment, in our outlook, a deposit better higher than the 35 percent, but also we assume higher volumes, and we also have assumed a higher average ECB rate. With respect to the replication portfolio, the benefit for this year is still unchanged. It's around 400 million euros. And yes, we think about increasing the replication portfolio somewhat. We do not really expect any drag for that for 2024, but it should really help to stabilize the coming years. With respect to 2025, we stick to our guidance from February for the moment, which is somehow a little bit below the $7.9 billion, because all depends on the question, where do we end the year, at what interest rate level, at what volumes, and deposit better. But I would say this is clearly the floor. So if at all, I would rather see upside and not really downside, if ECB is not surprising us.

Thanks, Bettina. If I may just follow up the exit data that you gave in the past. Can you tell us what it is now?

You mean by end of March? I think it was something around 36.

Okay, thank you.

The next question comes from Johannes Tormann, HSBC. Please go ahead.

Good morning, everybody. Three questions from my side, please. First of all, on NII, have you already seen the net interest margin peaking, or do you still expect this to happen during this year? Secondly, could you please provide a breakdown of the 423 million TLA, and if there is any need to release part of this in 2024? And last but not least, on the Polish FX mortgages, you flagged already additional 80 million for Q2. What is your expectation for the second half of 24? Thank you.

Okay, let me start with credit holidays. This is, at least from our standpoint at the moment, I mean, it all depends on the government. It's a one-time effect for Q2. And as we said, we assume something around 80 million, and that's also reflected in our forecast. With respect to the top-level adjustment, 423 million, yes, I mean, if we see now further lightening up of the economic environment, that will also have an impact on the top-level adjustment. We will take that quarter by quarter. And you can think about the split that there is – A little bit more than half is with corporate clients, and a little bit less than half is with PSPC. And with respect to the NII margin peaking, I mean, I think that if we believe that the interest rate cut will only happen in June, then I would say the second quarter will be also still pretty stable, and then we will see – a slight reduction in the coming quarters, but hopefully not too much. Again, very much dependent on what ECB is doing.

Okay, understood. Thank you. Just on the Polish, so you're not currently expecting any big charges in the second half?

With respect to credit holidays, no. With respect to our FX, specifically Swiss franc mortgages, we can't exclude that. I mean, we try to book whatever is necessary based on the behavior, based on the court rulings, et cetera. But you must probably assume also some burden for the second quarter as Because it's clear we rather put pressure on it to end it as soon as possible, meaning whatever we can do to settle, we will do. But some things are not in our hands. But we also believe that 24 burden should be less than 23. And as I said, objective is to put an end to the thing. The sooner, the better.

Okay, thank you.

The next question comes from Benjamin Goy, Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.

Yes, hi, good morning. Two questions, please, on capital allocation. So first, I think Manfred made his quote on huge capital return potential. Just wondering, you are in excess capital territory. Your Q1 net profit is higher than your last buyback. So can you accelerate the application and the approval process with the ECB just conscious trying to avoid another Christmas present or that you can only start in the fourth quarter, really, the next buyback. And the second question is on Bettina's comments, I think, earlier today in terms of M&A, where you have a couple of files on the table. I was just wondering whether you could provide more color on that. Thank you very much. Which areas you are looking at potential sizes, whether it's bolt-ons or not? Thank you.

So, I mean, on capital return potential, we were sad that we would wait for H1. I mean, we are in constant discussion also with our JST, but it's clear that we want to see first the H1 results, but then we will immediately start with the application process. Yes, we want to speed it up a little bit, but it's not entirely in our hands because we are reliant on the approval But given that the size of our next capital return package consisting of dividend and share buybacks will be higher, and specifically also the share buyback should be higher, we all know that we need to start early to make sure that we end it before next AGM. So that's indeed the case. And my comment, I think you're relying to my comments in Bloomberg this morning, is And it was about acquisitions that we look in the asset management area. We continue to look to enhance our value proposition here and do selective acquisitions if anything comes on our table, which is attractive for us.

Thank you, and I appreciate the improved disclosure.

Thank you. The next question comes from Vishal Shah, Morgan Stanley. Over to you.

Hi, thank you so much for taking my question. Can I ask a question on deposit beta and deposit balances per se? Clearly, the balances have been $9 billion higher in the quarter, and that's reflected in the higher deposit beta. Just given the absence of lending growth, do you expect to proactively chase deposit balances and keep higher deposit beta? Or do you see a possibility of still being able to manage the deposit beta down going forward? And then on capital returns, if I could just confirm, based on your previous comment, last year you applied the new buyback with around Q3. So this time, would you apply with the H1 results or will you apply once the H1 results are done and then a few weeks after that? Those are my questions.

So on deposit better and deposit balance, I mean, it's very much dependent also on the interest rate level. And as we said, we really try to manage volume and price. It's more the question also that we think that when we see interest rate cuts that securities become more attractive, and anyhow we believe that securities should be more attractive for private clients. So what we will try to do is convert some of the term and call money, which is now going down with respect to their interest rate level, to turn that into – securities. That's a target, but it's always the balancing out and it's also dependent on customer behavior and what the customers want. So we have a very, very close look on that. I would say less dependent on lending. We would be more than happy if we would see a pickup of lending specifically at the corporate client side. And it's a little bit similar story as we sat in February that Clients are discussing investment plans. They're considering it. But the action, at least the action in Germany, is still missing. We have seen some activity abroad, but we would wish for more activity in Germany. And there are at least these early indicators that that might come. On capital return, it's a fair question. We wait for the results, but then we will be prepared to then – launch the application as quickly as possible after we have published the results of H1.

Thank you so much.

The next question comes from Ricardo Rovere, Mediobanca. Please go ahead.

Thanks for taking my questions. A couple, if I may. First of all is on the credit loss guidance. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Manfred, at the beginning of the call, stated that now you no longer expect a recession in Germany, while the 800, less than 800 million credit loss guidance was based on a my recession in germany so why the number is not changing if uh if the gdp outlook is a scene improving if i get a monthly comment at the beginning of the call correct the second question i have is on again sorry again on deposit beta of course if pcb cut on the 6th of june one second after the deposit beta will go up immediately but that is just because the policy rate goes down. It has nothing to do with the cost of the deposits. So I was wondering, I think that the concept of the deposit beta becomes kind of irrelevant when rates are cut. So the question here is, if she cut 25 basis points, how much of that can you recover on the cost of the deposits, say after one month, two months or three months, because clearly it will go up just because the policy rate will go down. And then last but not least, on Poland, now that the coverage is 116% on FX provisions, is there a limit to this coverage or it could go on like that? No. also in 2025, maybe 26, with the same level of provisions. So now that the coverage is well above 100%. I mean, there is no limit in that. Thanks.

Yeah, thank you, Riccardo, for your question. So, yeah, good catch on loan loss provisions indeed. I mean, the smaller than 800, it's an elevated risk result for us, and it's linked to kind of recession trends we would see This is why we say it's clearly below the 800. I mean, it's early in the year. It's Q1. But we will definitely look at that and we'll come with an update in Q2. But you see me clearly relaxed on this topic. But I think it's healthy because Q1 is never really representative given that we have this long fourth quarter always. to wait for the Q2 developments and then make an adjustment. I mean, still, economy is at a zero percent. That's also not great. But I would also be rather positive on this number. The same holds true with the top-level adjustment, which we now will have a closer look on it, given how all the indicators are improving. On deposit better, also good catch, yes. I mean, this is why we have adjusted already for in April and May our offerings to make sure that we are some kind of prepared. But there will be some effects on corporate clients. Some of the agreements are very much linked. They are basically just a percentage of whatever the rate is. That's an easy part. There you will have an automatic change. But another part, we have clear commitments out there, sometimes for three, six, and nine months. So it will take time to recover and to adjust pricing. And that's what we also have reflected in our guidance of the 8.1 billion. And on the coverage ratio, I mean, I said that we are always reporting it because it's the official number Polish banks use. But it's a zimmy representative number because it's always related the outstanding active loan volume in comparison to the provisions still at hand. Both numbers are not really totally helpful because, A, also people who have already repaid, et cetera, can come back to us and sue us. It's a small number who's doing it, but still 10%. of clients are doing that. And the other part is that we have already settled a lot more than nearly 16,000 and we have also 5,000 final court decisions which mean the overall provisions which we have booked are much higher. They are now at around 3.2 billion euros. So we have paid out already 1.3 billion approximately or spent on this topic. Whereas the end, I mean, it's all dependent on rulings, the appetite of clients to do settlements with us, and I can only repeat myself, we do whatever we can do to settle on the court rulings. Our influence is a little bit less there, but we do everything to speed up the thing and to get a clear picture.

If I may follow up just one second on this, Bettina, sorry. If I got it correctly, you stated at some point that on this topic of effects provisions in Poland, 24, you expect a number, but a number lower than what it was in 2020 and 23. And if I got correctly, you have settled 16,000 cases and you are left with 5,000. I'm not sure I got it correctly, honestly.

Okay. So, yes, we think that the provisions should be in 2024 less than in 2023, and then they should become less and less in the years to come, 25, 26. The topic should be no longer a topic, hopefully. That's what we are trying to achieve. And if you take the numbers, in total, we have 86,000 Swiss franc mortgage customers. out of which we have now settled with approximately 16,000, and we have final court decision of approximately 5,000. Then there's a lot of people who have repaid, so the total number of still active clients are 26,000, of which a vast majority, more than 20,000, are in court against mBank. That's basically the numbers, and If you want to have full transparency, just look at the disclosure of MBank. They have been very, very transparent and very extensive on the disclosure for this topic.

Thanks. Thank you very much.

The next question comes from Rohith Chandra Rajan, Bank of America. Over to you.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Could I come back to net interest income, please, and particularly the $13 billion of call deposit inflows that you had in the quarter? I think when you talked to us at Q4, you were pricing those new call deposits at, I think you said $3.75 to $3.95. I was just wondering what the pricing looked like in Q1, and then you mentioned that you've already reduced that pricing again in Q2. So where are you pricing those at now? So that would be the first question on call deposit pricing. The second one is just on deposit mix and how you expect that to evolve through the year. I think you talked earlier about some of those call deposits and time deposits moving into securities, so maybe not the negative change in mix that we've seen so far. And then the final one was just to sort of press you again a little bit, if you don't mind, on the more than 35% deposit beta that you're expecting for the year. I just wondered if you could clarify a little bit more what that number might look like that you're assuming in your NII guidance, please.

Okay. So, I mean, we have not adjusted the pricing in the first month of Q1, so that holds true. But now we have for call money, our new offering out here is at 3%, up to $1 million. Classical call money is just at 0.75%, and Comdirect is somewhat a little bit higher. And then we also have a premium account, but that's for new, new customers with a 3.6% out there. That's basically the pricing, but we currently adjusted and have a review on a constant basis. On the deposit mix, we have to differentiate between corporate clients and private clients. I mean, on corporate clients, we see really a very stable level of deposit volumes, but we see a still continuing trend of corporate treasurers to also improve their liquidity management. So think about how much liquidity they need for their daily business and whatever they do not need, they also reshuffle in the direction of term and call money. But that is really flattening out because there's also a limit to it. On the private coin side, it's very much dependent. I mean, there's a lot of sticky money on the side deposits, which will most likely not move. But there's still a potential that people still move some side deposits either in core money or securities. But also this one, this trend should now slow down significantly. And all that then clearly has its impact on the deposit better. I said at the beginning we think that it will be higher on average for this year. But again, it's very much dependent, as Ricardo just pointed out clearly, it's also dependent on how many interest rate cuts, how fast we see by the ECB. But it's then also basically a result of interest rate level volumes and deposit better. So we can wholeheartedly confirm our 8.1 billion. Thank you.

The next question comes from mate names UBS. Over to you.

Yes, good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. I have three of them please. The first one is on acquisitions. Just getting back to the interview I think you gave in the morning. I was wondering if you could give us a sense on On the capital allocation for acquisitions, what quantum do we have to think about here? I take your view that these should be Bolton acquisitions mostly in asset management, but if you could clarify how many basis points, what percentage point would you plan on spending here? Are we thinking something similar like Aquila? That's the first one. The second one would be the payout plans for this year. Obviously, you have the 70% plus plan for this year up to 100%. My question is, to what extent Polish litigation provisions influence those payout plans? And at which level did you have to perhaps reconsider going with the full amount? It is getting close to 100% at an elevated level of still high Polish provisions acceptable. And the last question would be on loan growth in the corporate sector. It sounds like you're hopeful that we are seeing some pickup on that front in the back end of the year. Could you share any color on that? I think you said that you're seeing slight growth in investment loans as well. Any color on that would be helpful.

Yeah, I mean, acquisitions, I think the latest acquisitions show you that we really look on smaller acquisitions. So the two acquisitions we have now done, GlobalPay and Aquila, will have a final impact on this year's capital ratio of 10 basis points. So it's really limited. So we are not talking about big, bold acquisitions, which would change them significantly. our capital return plans, really selective, small things we look at. On the payout plan, I mean, the 70% plus is something we feel comfortable with, also independent what's happening in Poland. Clearly, the absolute number, et cetera, is dependent what's happening in Poland, but if we don't have any surprise and the burden will be below last year, so below 2023. We can just stick to our guidance, which is higher net income in 24 than in 23, and then you can do the mathematics, what the capital return would be in total, and I think we also said it earlier, in the capital return policy that this will be well above the one billion which we have seen for the year 2023. So there should be no change as long as we stay in this corridor. And in loan growth, we have seen a pickup in international loans and what we now expect is the pickup in domestic loans But there we are very much reliant a little bit on this early indicators, the talks, the discussions our relationship managers have with our corporate clients, specifically the Mittelstand. And it's all dependent, I think, also now what's happening with elections and the whole key indicators, economic indicators. When we see here a constant improvement, we will also definitely see a pickup in our loan growth.

Thank you. Okay, so just one moment for the next question. So the next question comes from Boca Ramirez City. Please go ahead.

Hello, good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. I have two. The first is a follow-up regarding the comments in the press this morning on acquisitions. I think there was a comment on cross-border deals. I would like to ask your thoughts on how you see domestic compared to cross-border bank consolidation and if there's any political will to foster the consolidation on the banking union. And then my second question would be, how do you prioritize organic versus inorganic growth? Is it maybe more attractive to do share buybacks or maybe to use that capital to do an inorganic acquisition? I would like to see what would be your thoughts as well. Thank you.

Okay, yeah, thank you very much. I think probably we need to turn down this acquisition topic a little bit because what Bettina basically said is that whenever smaller acquisitions opportunities in the asset management area and fee business area will be available, we will have a look into that. But at the moment, we are digesting Aquila, Nixdorf, and the global payment. So we constantly look, but I mean, it's our energy to grow basically also organically in the fee business. And with the wider offering right now for the clients, we are definitely sure that we deliver our fee income for this year and the planning period. And I think what basically came up is the Macron interview. Yeah, of course, midterm consolidation, as you said, in European banking is necessary. If you want to see Europe in the middle between the U.S. and Asia, and that's why we and personally myself, we put a lot of effort in the formation of the European Capital Market Union in the midterm. But when it comes to Commerzbank, to make that absolutely clear, we are completely focused on the execution of our strategy 2027 and to earn cost of capital. And that is the best prerequisite for Commerzbank independence, and that's what we're working on, and that's what our customer wants. So I wouldn't play this topic too high.

Okay, then the next question comes from Anke Reincken, RBC. Please go ahead.

Thank you very much for taking my question. Just firstly, on the 2025 NII commentary, slightly below 7.9 billion, is it basically just conservatism because it implies a larger step down versus your previous guidance? Or is there anything else that would justify that the decline is larger than previously? And then secondly, on costs, what's your expectation for levies this year? and costs X levy should we expect them to trend upwards in the rest of the year, considering inflation and potential wage changes? Thank you.

Yeah, I mean, again, on 2025, we just say it's too early to adjust the guidance, so there's nothing behind it, but we just kept our original assumptions untouched, and they lead to this result. But as I said, I would say that's rather the floor than anything else. and we will clearly give you a more closer update on that whenever we reach nearer to 2025. On the cost side, in bank levies, we expect somewhat 120 million lower than last year, so this has an impact. Overall, I mean, the cost pressure is on. We also see that specifically Q4, lots of investments come into play. So the fourth quarter is normally always a little bit higher than the rest of the quarters. And we have the negotiations of the private banks with the unions starting in summer. And that might also have a small but will have an impact on the cost base. But that's all reflected in our guidance of the 60% cost income ratio.

Okay. Thank you very much. Next question comes from Stefan Stalman, autonomous. Please go ahead.

Yes, good morning. Thank you very much for taking my questions. I have two left on my list. You mentioned in the presentation an improved net fair value result due to 81 FX effects. Could you maybe add a little bit more color how big this roughly was and then whether this is down to dollar weakness or any other driver? And the second question also, again, relates to the net fair value result. You write at another place in the presentation that there was some offset between the net fair value result and NII. Could you also add a bit of color here? Was the NII positive and fair value negative, or was it the other way around? How big was it roughly, and did this actually go across divisional lines, so it did happen within divisions. Thank you very much.

Okay, thank you, Stefan. So on 81, the effects that comes from our 81 issuance, the first one we did, we did in U.S. dollar, and we basically show in our P&L the up and downs in the U.S. dollar-euro exchange rate, and we basically saw a burden of minus 40 in Q4 and a positive one of plus 20 in Q1, and that adds up to a difference of 60 million approximately. That's what it's relating to. And on fair value, I think, I mean, we should always note that the net fair value result is always strongly driven by volatile valuation effects, and therefore it's very hard to predict. Let me state that first. But then there are two structural streams that you can always take into account, and you also mentioned one. One is the business results clearly in corporate clients from bid offer spreads, which usually deliver a little bit more than 100 million euros per quarter. That's one key thing we need to keep in mind, and the second one is the one you were referring to. That's the offsetting impact from increased NII and others in consolidation, and that all happens in others in consolidation. Because as a rule of thumb, you can say that in the last quarters, there has been a negative impact on fair value out of this corresponding channels between NII and net fair value of minus 150 million in fair value. And that has been also the case in Q1. I expect a similar number for Q2. And then this hit in fair value should come slowly down. because also the NII should come down because we have the first rate cuts. So if I now look on the consensus with respect to fair value, which is, I think, currently at minus 260-something, I feel pretty comfortable with this number.

Great. Very helpful. Thank you very much.

So ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, if you would still like to raise a question at this point, please press 9 and the star key. And the next question for now comes from Timo Jums, DZ Bank. Over to you.

Yes, hi, good morning. Two questions, please, from my side, one on NCI and the other one on ROTI. So your growth in NCI has been below your 4% target despite, yes, beneficial seasonal patterns and recent acquisitions. should only become more meaningful maybe in the end of this year or more pronounced next year. So what makes you confident to reach your 4% target? This would be my question number one. And my second question is related to the ROTIs. So you generated a low double-digit figure in the first quarter, but you still expect a lower figure for the remainder of the year or for the full year. Could you discuss here the most important ROTI drivers and maybe as it is linked to it, could you talk also about your cost income ratio target of 60% given that you outperformed this target as well? Thank you.

Sure, Timo. So on the NCI, what makes us confident, first of all, I mean, if you look on corporate clients, they have shown clearly a very, very strong quarter. So they have basically also shown the growth rate which we expected. There's also slight growth already in M-Bank, so they also confirmed that. And also if you take the private client side and you exclude this one-time effect which we had in Q1 2023 stemming from Cromarty Oil, it looks according to plan. And specifically in the private client side with all the measures taken, we expect that the net commission income will not show this sharp decline, which we have seen specifically in Q3 and Q4 in the last years, but that it will be kept at a higher level. So overall, yes, we feel very confident to reach the 4%, and then clearly the unorganic opportunities will also help on that, but the majority will come from organic growth. On the ROTE, the 10.5% and the 58%, you could have clearly the hope that this continues, but first quarter is always specifically good. That is due to the fact that the risk result is always very low, and this is also the case for this year. Costs are normally also lower than for the rest of the year. Specifically in January, it's always a slow start, etc., And that's what we take into account. And then one should not forget that NII has been now at a very high level. And with the interest rate cuts, we expect now lower NII, clearly for Q3 and Q4. And that putting everything together leads to the fact that although we like the numbers 58 and 10.5 percent, and we would definitely repeat those numbers that overall we need to stay a little bit cautious still for the full year. But it gives you, I think, a good flavor of what this bank can generate as profits.

Very comprehensive. Thank you very much.

And now one quick follow-up question coming from Kian Abu-Hussain. Please go ahead.

Yes, if I may, just a quick one, more macro for Manfrede. clearly looking at the outlook statement but also looking at the environment in germany in more detail it is still very depressed um and yes there's signs of improvement from extremely low levels and um i'm just wondering if you can talk a little bit in the context of what you see manfred talking to smes uh the middle stand um And in that context, clearly also a little bit around your loan growth volume assumptions that you gave in terms of outlook.

Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. So we're saying it's not a recession, but it's also with zero, it's not a lot of power into it. That's why we are basically... have the outlook the way Bettina has already mentioned this with regard to risk and the loan growth on two areas. I mean, it should slightly improve, but there's not a super dynamic on corporate clients. And then on mortgages, I think the lowest point is over. We see some improvements in the mortgage business and some pickups. but not at any levels what we have seen before the low interest rate environment. So it's coming back a little bit, but also not significantly. When you talk to the clients, I mean, there is still some insecurity. I mean, the energy topic is still up in the air, and they're very reluctant with regards to investments in Germany. So whenever they invest, they invest abroad, especially in the U.S. and North America. where we happily to be at the side of our customers and help them to make their investments and to follow with them their business. So that's working well for us. But for Germany, they're pretty reluctant on the topic. And they hope, and they're all waiting, and that's what they're saying, when the structural reforms necessary in Germany will be undertaken. So that is... a highly political topic, and there's a huge request for a change agenda in Germany and really attacking the structural topics where there is really slow speed into this topic. So that's basically what they say.

Thank you.

So then one final question at this point that we have time for comes from Jeremy Seguet, BNP Paribas Exxon. Over to you.

Hi there. Yeah, just a quick follow-up on the buybacks. And forgive me if you clarified this, but I don't think you did. You're accruing 100% payouts. You have a very big capital surplus. Is it realistic for us to imagine that you might actually pay out very close to that 100% payout this year. Is that something that's within the realms of possibility?

Yeah, fair question. I mean, honestly, we first generate the result. I think we have a very clear commitment out, which means that we said that for the first three years after the strategy announcement, we would love to return approximately 3 billion euros. We have now returned 1.4 billion euros. We can all do the mathematics, the 1.6 billion. And besides that, we will have a close look on it. But first, I think it's important that we generate the results. And I think we are on a very, very good path for that. And the rest we will see whenever the results are there.

Okay. Thanks very much.

Yeah, thank you very much for taking all your questions. And as always, Bettina, Christoph, and the entire IR team are happy to meet you in the follow-up questions, follow-up meetings, and whenever you have questions, please talk to them. So Bettina, myself, and the team say thank you very much for being with us today and asking those questions. Thank you very much.