Carl Zeiss Meditec Ag

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Carl Zeiss Meditech AG Analyst Conference 9M 2023-2024 results. At this time, all participants have been placed on listen-only mode. The floor will be open for questions following the presentation. Let me now turn the floor over to your hosts, Christian Frerich, Head of Investor.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to our in-list call. With me, as usual, is our management, our president, CEO, Markus Weber, and our CFO, Justus Wehmer. They will guide you through our financials with some prepared remarks, and afterwards, we look forward to take your questions. I would like to hand over to Markus.

Yeah, thank you so much, Sebastian, and also a warm good morning and welcome from my side, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the nine-month 23-24 Analyst Conference of Carl Zeiss Meditech AG. So let's have first a brief look at our agenda. I will start off with an overview, as usual, of the results and just to give more insight into the financials. Following that, we would like to provide deeper insights into what we are doing about cost control measures and some details around recent order development. Finally, we'll update you on the outlook for the remainder of the fiscal year, 2023-2024. And afterwards, as usual, we will be very open for your questions. We discussed the business situation of the first eight months. In mid-June, the third quarter results reflect what we shared with you when we lowered revenues. Revenue and profit are both under continued pressure year-on-year. The respective investment climate and equity markets, as well as weaker consumer sentiment in our effective business, continue to create headwinds for our business. It's the first time that DORC was consolidated in the Q3 numbers. Please note the reported numbers all include DORC in the slides. So, coming to revenue, revenue in nine months, 23, 24 was down, minus five, one point, if you correct me, minus 1.5% to 1.487 billion Euro, adjusted to currency effect, it was almost stable at 1.510 billion Euros. Currency headwinds mostly came from RMB, USD, US Dollar and Japanese Yen. DORC contributed 53 million revenue in Q3, excluding DORC. The organic revenue was 1.434 billion euros down by minus 5% yield. Both equipment and consumables demonstrated a sideways trend. The restructuring investment climate continued to put pressure on equipment, especially in North America, as we have said in particular in June. The decline in consumables is still preliminary due to the stopping of refractive treatment packs until March 24. There has been a relatively soft start to the summer peak season of confections in the Chinese market in Q3, as well as some delays in the implementation of IOL volume-based procurement, leading to a more unfavorable consumable mix share than we had initially planned for. However, recently, there has been at least some stabilization happening as we speak in our order intake. The book-to-bill ratio stabilized and reached slightly above 1 in Q3, after being below 1 for several quarters. EBIT amounted to 163 million, a significant minus 34% decline year-on-year, which contains stocks of around 4 million. Justus will talk about the stock contribution in just a moment. EBIT margin was 10.9% and down from 16.2% last year. Excluding DORC, the organic EBIT was 159 million with a margin of 11.1%. Adjusted EBIT margin was 161 million with a margin of 11.2%. In the adjusted margin, we stripped out DORC EBIT contribution. DORC integration costs one of payment and amortization on PPA of earlier acquisitions. The main reasons for the steep decline in EBIT were the revenue contraction and resulting lack of operating leverage, as well as the product mix, as I've already mentioned. OPEX are trending sideways, thanks to the strict cost control measures we have implemented. Our net income dropped by minus 42% from 205 million in the prior year to 180 million due to lower EBIT and weaker financial results. This reduced FX hedging contribution in the reporting period. Earnings per share fall to €1.32. Now I would like to hand over to Justus, who will provide you with more background, and we'll discuss the figures in more detail.

Yeah, good morning, and welcome also from my side. I'm now going to give you a more detailed overview of our financials, starting with the performance of the SPU of Commodity. Revenue of OPT dropped by minus 0.8% to €1,143,000,000. At constant currency, it's slightly increased by plus 0.7% to 1,160,000,000 euro. The number contains stock revenue of 53,000,000 euro, including dog revenue, OPG dropped minus 5.4% to 1,090,000,000 euro. Underlying top line contraction was reflected in both equipment and consumables. In equipment, we saw the drop most clearly in the diagnostics and ophthalmic microscopes categories above all in North America. In consumables, the completion of refractive consumables in the Chinese sales channel, weaker refractive consumable consumption at the beginning of the summer peak season, as well as some delay in implementation of volume-based procurement of IOLs, the main drivers of the softness. By making further progress in the expansion of the installed base of Visumax, we will provide more insights into development of refractive procedures in China later. Due to volume-based procurement for IOLs, there is additional pressure on revenue and earnings due to the volumes coming in later than initially planned. On the cost side, the effects were almost flat. Due to the revenue weakness, OPEX ratios continued at a high level despite significant cost containment measures. As a consequence, gross margin and EBIT margin were down significantly year over year, a minus 5.5 percentage points to 8.5%. Let me address the first contribution from DORC, which, as we had announced previously, we will adjust out of our EBIT performance as it is counted for our target achievement this year. Dog had EBIT of €4 million at a margin of 7.3% in Q3. At the time of the acquisition, we projected a dog operating margin in the mid-teens percentage. Importantly, the difference to what we are reporting in Q3 post-consolidation is mainly due to some accounting changes. we are following a much more conservative R&D capitalization policy, leading to a reduction of around a couple of percentage points in reported EBIT margin, as, for example, certain product registration expenses under ZEISS R&D accounting are not being capitalized at expense directly. Due to the relatively large amount of capitalized R&D on the DORC balance sheet, we are now continuing the depreciation charge at around 2 million euro per quarter, which is essentially for money that has been spent before the acquisition by ZEISS. It is a pure non-cash accounting effect. Secondly, there are a couple of non-recurring issues in the numbers that we expect to be positioned for under the purchase price allocation as it will be finalized towards the end of the fiscal year and will therefore be neutral in the coming quarters. The estimate without these changes and impacts The comparable torque EBIT margin would have been around 12% to 13%, still a bit lower than we see it on a full-year basis. Purchase price allocation is expected to be finalized in the fourth quarter. The Q4 financials will, for the first time, contain an amortization charge, which we expect at around 15 to 20 million as of today. The annualized amount from fiscal year 2024-2025 onwards would be between €30 to €40 million. The number might still change as this is only a preliminary status. As we had previously announced, we will adjust it out of our EBIT as it relates to Biden's achievement. Let's go to microsurgery. The continued investment reluctance in the markets has also led to weakness in MCS fields. Supply and drop minus 4% to 344 million euro. At constant currency, it's a minus 2% drop. In particular, in the categories of dental and neurosurgery business, we saw the most impact. High financing costs played a role, both for private hospitals with leverage as well as for some of the dental customers who are affected by more restrictive lending policies. We see these effects mainly in North America. Also in European markets such as Germany and France, political and regulatory uncertainties in the healthcare system have contributed to a slower than usual order intake pattern. As we said in June, we are seeing the current weakness in some of our competitively strongest areas, such as neurosurgical visualization. Competitors are not making any major moves at the moment either. This reassures us that what we are seeing has likely nothing to do with shifts in market shares, but rather possibly a combination of restrictive market factors with a market that has been relatively well saturated during the COVID years, as a large backlog of previously queued up equipment has been delivered. We do not know exactly how long this environment will persist, but historical patterns show that these markets typically do not stagnate or even go down for very long, particularly not if there's enough innovation coming down the pipeline, as in our case. As a consequence of the lack of operating leverage, both gross margin and EBIT margin have fallen back despite a flat OPEX development and a reversal from the stronger picture at the beginning of the year. EBIT margin dropped by 4.2 percentage points to 19.2%. For reasons, EMEA demonstrated good top-line growth, while Americas was under the strongest pressure. Americas noted sales of 357 million euro, a drop of minus 13% at constant currency minus 12%, Business is still largely held back by the high interest rate and difficult financing environment. It's worth mentioning in Q3 solo, order entry returned positive after being weak for several quarters. This seems too late and not yet strong enough to create anything like the recovery we had previously counted on for the second half, but it still signals to us that the US markets will likely not be down any longer for an extended period of time. In EMEA, we noted revenues of 432 million Euro, an increase as reported of plus 16% and at constant currency, plus 19%. Core markets such as Italy, Spain and France continued showing strong performance, but benefited from backlog delivery. which peaked in Q2. Order entry in France and in Germany in particular did weaken over the past few months, due most likely to some political and regulatory uncertainty in the healthcare system. In Asia Pacific, we achieved revenues of 698 million Euro, which moderately dropped by minus 4% at constant currency minus 3%. India and Australia contributed a robust performance, China, including Hong Kong, developed slightly down as a consequence of weaker consumable sales, as we explained before. Japan and South Korea also moved sideways. So let's have a look at the P&L lines. Gross margin was 53.7%, was 3.6 percentage points below previous year level, into less operating leverage, unfavorable product mix, and additionally, Foreign exchange headwinds mainly from ring in the US dollar and Japanese yen Optics excluding torque and stock integration costs were slightly down in absolute terms year-over-year due to strict cost control measures I will talk more about this a bit later in the presentation OPEX ratios remained high due to the revenue weakness. I Consequently, reported EBIT of €163 million was significantly below previous year's level of €245 million. EBIT margin was 10.9% behind previous year's 16.2%. In adjusted EBIT, we made a number of changes. Let me walk you through each one. Under amortization of PPA, we will factor out the previously mentioned amortization charge for DORC that we'll take in in Q4. To be consistent, we will group this together with the ongoing amortization of PPA arising from past acquisitions, such as Iron Scientific, Eantech, Catalyst, and Comgent. We also adjust for the one-off top-down payment, DORC-reported EBIT, and cost-to-DORC integration. Adjusted EBIT amounted to €151 million, similar to reported EBIT figure, but minus 36% below previous year's €253 million. Adjusted EBIT margin was 11.2% minus 5.6 percentage points behind previous year. It already announced previously the impact of the TopCon settlement as well as the DOOR contribution to EBIT. The PPA charge on DORC and the DORC integration cost will be adjusted out of the guidance. For the remainder of the year, we will now base our outlook on adjusted EBIT as defined in this table instead of reported EBIT. We previously not meant to exclude the PPA charges for historic acquisitions from our target achievement, which amount to 7.5 million Euro in Q3 and roughly 10 million Euro in the full year 23-24. We do not wish to be moving the goalposts, but rather try to keep things simple. Therefore, we will move the guidance range from June news release to a revised range that is €10 million higher, but based on the logic of this adjusted EBIT formula. This 10 million euro adjust value of the PPA charges from historic M&A previously had not been adjusted under our outlook, but now will be. There's no underlying economic change to the outlook. We will reiterate this again at the end of the presentation when we discuss the outlook. Now let's look at the cash flow statement. Operating cash flow declined to 58 million euro. Previous year was 103 million euro. mainly due to lower earnings and higher tax payments. Investing cash flow includes the changes in our treasury account. It is positive at 19 million euro as we have withdrawn most of the liquidity from the group treasury to pay for the dog acquisition. CapEx were relatively high after nine months at 116 million euro versus 77 million euro in the previous year. Humane lead to the expansion project in our consumer goods production for example, at our La Rochelle, Guangzhou, and Catalyst sites. Change in financing cash flow was mainly due to issuance of shareholder loan, dividend payment, and share buyback. Under the share buyback, we have invested around 108 million euros as of June 30, 2024. Net liquidity was at minus 24 million euros and refinanced through the Zeiss Group Treasury. Most financial debts, including the shareholder loan from Zeiss, was at €424 million. Now, let's move to the key topics, and I'll start with the first one, which is our resilience initiatives. Since the beginning of the fiscal year, we have been implementing what we call a resilience program, meant to practically adjust expense levels depending on where we are in the market cycle. As we had to realize that a recovery of the equipment business was delayed, we meaningfully ramped up the short-term resilience measures during the third quarter. The target of these initiatives is to secure a minimum target achievement even in difficult markets and to focus on to improve the efficiency of our P&L and the chance of becoming effective near-term. The focus is on reducing discretionary spending, reducing R&D expenses by reprioritizing our project pipeline, and bringing down external spending. We will continue with a highly selective hiring policy with the goal of keeping overall headcount relatively flat until next year. Regarding financial impact, we are targeting an annual amount of structural OPEC savings in the low to mid-double-digit million area, believing that there are efficient improvements addressable. We have involved external consultants who are doing some work for us on the dog integration, to advise on the cost optimization and transformation initiatives, and we'll share further updates with you as we move into next fiscal year. The mid- to long-term transformation initiatives, let me then pass it over to Markus.

Yeah, thank you so much, Justus. And let's come now to the mid- to long-term initiatives. So mid- to long-term It is our goal to use the current situation to drive the company towards better productivity in a variety of fields. Let me walk you through them. The area of operations and supply chain over the last few years, we have to operate in an area of unprecedented tight supplies. We have managed to achieve supply continuity at all times, which was not easy. but it did not come at a cost. The cost of goods sold has risen due to the necessary insourcing. At the same time, in a different type of economy, we do not need all the capacities that have been set up in recent years to deal with the high demand during the pandemic. It is a target of protecting our cross-margin development by reducing the cost of goods sold. In the field of innovation, we see good progress over the last five years with meaningful product launches such as our entry into premium hydrophobic IOLs, launch of our first FACO and IOL in the U.S., the launch of Visomax 800 in many countries, including the U.S. this fiscal year, as well as a lot of new products in microsurgery coming next fiscal year. The size medical ecosystem that powers our clinical workflows, we are reshaping visualization in the ophthalmic industry. However, R&D projects have risen significantly as well, and as a consequence, we constantly measure R&D productivity and need to ensure best possible productivity of these large investments. Therefore, we are currently performing a thorough analysis of all our key projects, and we'll make some resource allocation adjustments if needed, to ensure highest returns on the portfolio and the utmost focus on the critical value drivers. The second goes for commercial. We seek to adopt an even more agile market strategy to launch new products, price our products smartly, and also offer the customer increased flexibility. All of this will help us to deal with the currently difficult market environment and speed up the pace of future product introductions. Please be assured that these initiatives will have the highest priority for us as we move forward. Even as we strongly hope for markets to be more supportive in fiscal year 2024-25, we are currently preparing for an all-weather kind of scenario. Looking into the current environment, I would like to share a bit more detail with you than we usually provide before transitioning to the outlook. The numbers in the chart on this slide do not include DOC. You can clearly see that during the COVID years, order entry was significantly inflated. Therefore, it seems plausible that some saturation post-COVID has kicked in as we delivered a very substantial backlog of equipment orders into customer's hands. We have had about a year and a half of weakening order entry and negative booking bill. Notably, based on the most recent data, this seems to be bottoming out now. The bill ratio has recovered to slightly above one. Both ophthalmology and microsurgery have experienced similar effects. We are still seeing a gap versus the previous year in revenue, but the forward indicators now look more stable, and they have in quite some time. So now, finally, let's move to the guidance. As we discussed in last investor's call in June, our revenue target remains unchanged to this 2 billion euros. Additionally, DORC is expected to contribute around 100 million euros in the second half year. Adjusted EBIT is expected to reach a range of 225 million to 275 million. As reported earlier, adjusted EBIT after nine months was 161 million, featuring all the top-con effect, DOC contribution, and DOC-related integration costs, as well as PPA from legacy acquisitions, and Q4 first-time free talk. Because these PPA charges from legacy acquisitions were not adjusted for in our previous guidance, but now will be after this change of methods. We have raised the range by 10 million, the amount of adjustable PPA charges to 225 to 275 million euros. We will continue on strict cost control to further reduce sales and marketing and R&D expenses. As discussed, we used to achieve a low to mid-double-digit-million reduction in structural OPEX before this integration. In the midterm, the transformation initiatives will help us to improve our productivity and thereby enable a new phase of profitable growth once the markets eventually turn around. With that, we have come to the end of our prepared remarks on the financials. Let me pass it back to the moderator to take your questions. Thank you so much.

Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the questions and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please dial 9 star on your telephone keypad. If you find your question is answered before, it's your turn to speak. You can dial 9 star again to continue your question.

So the first question comes from Oliver Reinberg Kepler-Chevreux. The line is open. Oh, yeah, good morning. Can you hear me?

Yes, we can hear you. Oh, yeah, perfect. Thank you so much for taking my questions. BFMA, just from China, can you share with us what kind of volume growth in terms of treatment you have seen so far in the kind of key summer period on an active basis and also on a life-for-life basis, if you adjust for the white and then salt paste, that would be question number one. Typically on dog, I mean, noting a bit of a softer margin here and also now you talked about involving consultants to streamline the kind of cost base here. Initially, the understanding was that this is kind of very simple integration work. So can you just give us a bit of favor? Is there anything like you can tell us what's more negative in DOC and also what is now a kind of reasonable margin assumption for DOC next year on size accounting standards, please? And then certainly on the midterm margin outlook, I'm not sure if it's just regarding, I think you now talked about 20% sustainable margin in the past. You were shooting for more.

I'm not sure whether this has changed.

And can you just confirm, does it also apply now still for the report fee? Or does it now move to a justifiability as well, considering that you have this kind of PPA charges coming from the dollar?

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you, Oliver, and good morning from my side. I think Justus will take this question and answer it to you. So overall, maybe just before we go into financials, so we see for DOC, actually, as you said, so currently the integration work is well ongoing, I would say. For sure, at the beginning, we have always some turbulences, but currently we don't see any deviations, which has been unexpected. So from this point of view, I think everything is on track. But as you said, you know, the integration work is always a big deal, but we are very well prepared. A big team is working on that. Also, the consultancy support.

Okay, Oliver, just a couple of comments on China. I'd say year-to-date, and you know that we are just basically in the middle of the summer peak, so it is a little bit too early to tell. But at least to this date, I think we can still confirm that we see in terms of RTP consumption year-over-year growth that is obviously nourished by the bigger installed base compared to the last year. But frankly spoken, and you heard us saying this here, we have been off to a somewhat slower start of the summer peak. And only after the summer peak, we will ultimately be able to answer the question of whether we will have year over year coming to the end of this fiscal year. We will then have a growth. Therefore, please understand that I'm still a little bit reluctant to give here any predictions at this point in time. So we are simply a couple of weeks too early with this call today to have the full transparency on the magnitude of the summer peak. On the dog integration, no, there are no surprises whatsoever. And we have a snapshot here with the first quarter. And as we have said, there's on the one hand side some accounting issues. effects that however we were well aware that this would incur once we are in the consolidation moment because we have a more conservative perspective on especially on the capitalization of product registration costs and then we had some non-recurring issues with supplies from vendors to DORC that were delayed. Therefore, I think we shouldn't take too much or read too much into these first numbers. We're asking about what is in our expectation for the DORC margin in the future. I think a mid-teen number is a reasonable assumption as is, and then obviously On top of that, we are then in the process in the future to take the synergies, being it on the market and sales side, or being it on the organizational side. But also to clarify, it's not that the consultants that we have engaged for the PMI, it was something that was clearly part of our plan and preparation because nothing that was kind of the result of any sort of findings or disclosures after the acquisition, but that's not simply because we want to have a diligent and successful PMI process. However, them being already on board and knowing our strategy and knowing the synergy portions that we want to explore, we felt it was only sensible to use now these consultants to also advise us on our further cost optimization projects. And last but not least, in terms of the EBIT margin guidance, yes, of course, in order to maintain some sort of clarity and transparency, it will be to the adjusted EBIT margin referred. And as you were hearing outright at this point in time, we want to give basically a guidance that is indicating that we are on our path to return to the 20% EBIT margin. And yes, we are guiding here about 20%, but that does not take away that we stay to the original target of sustainably above. But right now we just want to show and indicate the track back to that. So I hope that covers your questions.

That's perfect. Thank you very much, Paul.

Next question comes from Graham Doyle, UBS. Your line is open.

Morning. Thanks, guys. I just have two questions. So firstly, on microsurgery, when you think of the slowing order intake there and obviously the very strong numbers in the first half, how good do you feel about finding a baseline of demand for 2025? And do you think you should have that now because you've seen the stabilization? And then just on China refractive, could you give us a sense as to how the The potential shift and the pressure that we're seeing a little while ago in terms of the switch to LASIK, how that's playing out over the summer as well, just to get a sense as to what we think about next year and the potential for a peace stock in the first half, whether we would see a full sort of 55-minute benefit or maybe something that gets eaten away with LASIK. Thank you.

Yeah, thank you very much. Good morning, Graham. And so I will take the first question and most likely the second question. Do you want to take it? Yeah, okay. So microsurgery, so Graham, I think this is in microsurgery, as you know, since we have a significant market share in the market, especially also in North America, we have a very, very good transparency of the trends in the market. And so what we have seen is that overall, The interest of our customers, especially for our new innovations like the Pantera 800S, but also the activities and instruments and so on. We see that there's a high interest and that the sales funnel is very well-sourced. So, as you stated already, so there has been a situation over COVID, and we have seen that this is super high to build, which was very unusual, especially also in the equipment business. And now we have seen also that in a similar amount, then there was a situation in the market. At least this is our evaluation assessment of this. So having said that, so we see currently a stabilization as you've just said. and also positive order entry. Again, we see that we are still gaining market share. So that means our defenders coming in, the loss rate is even higher for us as in the years of during COVID. So all of this is good news. And as we said, the innovation pipeline is, thanks to our R&D investments, very well filled. So there will be new innovations coming, which will definitely then also foster and leverage the market market again so from from the microsurgery point of view uh we strongly believe that the next fiscal year will be um a reasonable year this out now looking too much in the crystal sphere but but overall we feel very well prepared for him yeah and uh on the uh questions on china um

I think in a nutshell, what we see is the price pressure remains in the market, and it shouldn't be any surprise to you. And we do see a gradually higher ratio of LASIK, but not significantly. So basically that trend that has continued on a – a single percentage point level towards LASIK, but nothing that is dramatically changing the future versus the previous quarter.

Okay, thank you, Jesse. Next question comes from Dylan from .

Your line is open.

Thank you. So just one follow-up on Graham's question. Just on the mix, is there also a mix shift between SMILE and SMILE Pro? I was just interested to hear if there is, let's say, traction here given the new complications. And then maybe just a question on the book-to-bill number that we got. Are all orders entered into book-to-bill? Or is that also excluding ship orders? Because I know that sometimes these numbers can differ. And, yeah, I'll just keep it there if there's a follow-up or something.

Dylan, first question on the mix of NoSmilePro is not yet really dramatically relevant here, especially in China, because the – The VisaMarkt 800 is yet to be launched in China, and with the VisaMarkt 800, then there will be the SmilePro modality. So perspective, given that the Chinese summer peak is here, the meaningful component in what we are discussing, that doesn't have any impact here. Book to Bill, frankly, I was not sure whether I fully understood your question, but we are typically taking in all orders that we receive and without any specific corrections or adjustments that you were kind of alluring to. So that, I think, is the simple answer from my side.

Thank you. And maybe just then, I think SmartPro or at least the United States 800 is launched in Korea, right? And could you maybe comment on the traction in their market maybe as a proxy for what is ultimately maybe flattish volumes but maybe positive mix because there is a premium implicated, right, in the trade of SmartPro?

Yeah, so Dylan, very well observed. So we see a good resonance there on the market for SmilePro, especially as you said, as a premium procedure. And this goes also along this price ability. So we can really keep the prices here. So overall, we see positive momentum in our expectation. is that in the countries where we are introducing SmilePro, that just has a positive momentum in the countries, not only in terms of market share for the premium procedures, but also in terms of pricing and pricing stability.

Excellent. And just maybe finally, just on VizMax, is there still sort of an order book number you guys have? Because I think the number was roughly 100 in China, or was it 50 in China and another 50 internationally?

Frankly, now you caught me, but I'd say, and we can confirm, and you can follow up with Sebastian on that, but I'd say, by and large, similar.

We still see a higher order entry on the Visomux, and it's also something, you know, that interplay between utilization new installs that's also something since we have so much orders coming in from china and other countries um that are then to drive up these these systems um it has also kind of uh dilution on on the utilization and that's something what you see currently since our installed base is significantly growing um this is something we will see especially in the next months and quarters how this then actually transforms into utilization.

Thanks. Next question comes from .

I'm taking the question two for me. So on the weaker equipment sales in North America in the ophthalmology segment, do you think the declines you saw were in line with the rest of the market? I know you said the sort of decline in equipment sales in MCS was in line with the market, but is it the same in ophthalmology? And then how much of the FACO expansion plans in the U.S. been disrupted by equipment selling issues and how you think about the long-term opportunity there? And then the second one was just around the mid- to long-term resiliency initiatives. I just wondered whether your goal of getting back to over 20% now relies on efficiency or cost savings to get back to that level? If we see a recovery in U.S. equipment sales and China refractive consumables, would that be enough to get the margins back to that 20% level?

Thanks. So, good morning, Sam. So, you take the first question, maybe you take the second one, Justus. So, coming to ophthalmology market, yeah, we see similar patterns, but it's a bit more complex since we have much, much more competitors in the market, and these competitors are also actually are established in different market segments and niches. So, for instance, in optometrists, it's more on the optometrist level. You see these different barriers. Overall, you see similar patterns when it comes really to a one-to-one comparison in terms of the markets. So, I think this is definitely the case. Please be aware of, for instance, that we have now just relaunched our 06000, which has gained a lot of market momentum now, especially in the last months. So from this point of view, this is something what is positive. And overall, we see that the market is currently, especially in equipment for U.S., very, very soft. But again, I think we see similar patterns as in microsurgery that there is at least currently a recovery. How long and how sustainable the recovery is is really hard to predict, but currently we see that this is a positive element. And it depends most likely also on the elections and on the things happening here in the world. On the FACO side, so what we currently, and this goes along this talk, what we currently are actually, we have now the broadest portfolio when it comes to FACOs. And this is something what we leverage now since talk in the APA Nexus. It's a combo system that's actually completing our portfolio and brings us in a perfect position also in actually to win against competition. That's the reason that Block has a significant high block, especially also for Nexus, and we are ramping up, as Justus said, to make sure that the supply chain is working and to make sure that we can leverage this growth. This is one of the synergy activities what we currently do. So that means we will actually put then our full FACO strategy for North America in place. by next fiscal year then when also the sales forces are aligned and trained. So all of these activities are ongoing and that's the reason also that currently now to say what is the current status of DORC is kind of really tough to say because we are currently really in that alignment of the activities and incentive models for everything what is necessary actually to bring sales and marketing online. The same is true for R&D and also operations and supply chain management. As you can imagine, there's a lot of synergies that we can leverage, and the team is very motivated and excited to make it happen.

Your question on resilience as a contribution to bring us back to the 20% EBIT margin, we In order to get back there, we will have to have both. We will have to have basically cost efficiency and operational excellence, and this is exactly what we're trying with the resilience program and with the transformation projects that Markus was talking about. really give a contribution to our recovery but we also need the growth on the top line but you know the fundamentals of the markets that we are in uh remain from our perspective um all um healthy as drivers for further growth um the um business model of going to these workflow solutions including the consumables and dog being the most recent addition to that strategy clearly for us indicate that this path can be continued, can be pursued, and once these, what I would still call post-corona portions of supply chains and of customer buying behavior, once they have overcome and we come back to a more steady state, then I think both top-line growth and the resilience slash efficiency from our operational excellence will contribute to that.

All right. Thanks very much. Next question comes from Falko Friedrichs, Deutsche Bank.

Thank you, and good morning. My first question is on guidance for this fiscal year. Considering where you stand on adjusted EBIT in the first nine months, Is it a fair assumption that the lower end of your adjusted EBIT margin, adjusted EBIT range is a little bit more realistic now, or do you still believe that the full range is perfectly doable? And my second question on your incremental offset savings, these low to mid WGT billions, did I understand it correctly that they should have a full effect next fiscal year over this year? So that's a full incremental My last question is on the rollout in IOLs. Can you briefly update us where we stand here with it and how many provinces sort of have it implemented and how much is good to go there? Thank you.

So maybe I'll start with the third question and then hand over to Justus. So the VBP, I think it's, as far as I know, it's a single digit number of regions currently which has already adopted. We see positive effects in these regions in terms of volumes. It's clear that overall the price erosion is part of the NBVP, but we see also that our share in premium has been shifted, as I already noted. That means overall we expect to have the rest of the regions adapted to that. in the next six months, roughly. But it depends also on the authorities in China. So overall, I think our NDP strategy is running as expected, also in terms of price and positioning. You see higher volumes coming in and higher unit numbers. And this is something that we currently handle and more to come. But it's clear that's a new setup and actually the entire of the market has to settle down first before we really clearly see what the consequences are. So far, I think we are here on track.

Now, Falco, your questions on guidance, actually, thanks for the question. You are totally right. I would say, you know, mid to lower end of the guidance is the more realistic assessment that I can see, and why is that? The summer peak that started softer is a first indication that would put me here on the more conservative side in that assessment. And secondly, and that's the unfortunate seasonal pattern, the U.S. device business typically has this very, very back-end loaded pattern of September being the decisive month. September in the U.S. can easily be almost a factor two of a regular sales month in our year. And obviously with the uncertainties of the U.S. development, you just heard saying that there is some indications of stability and here and there even I'd say some optimism is probably appropriate given the recent development so that two things must keep in and then we may be closer to the midpoint but being here more conservative at this point then I agree with your assessment lower end is more realistic on the incremental optics But there's two sides to it. Obviously, whatever we do in this resilience program will already help and contribute to this year's guidance achievement, as you can imagine. In the next year, however, we will then have basically a new list of measures that we are going to implement and that will contribute to our target of ideally a continued sidewards development of all. But again, that all will be gauged somewhat with the overall market development and then we basically take the, how should I say, the severity of measures to be taken in dependence of the developments in the markets.

Okay, thank you. Next question comes from Jack Reynolds Clark, RBC Capital Markets.

Thank you for taking the questions. Two for me, please. You talked about strong growth in EMEA. Can you just talk through which categories you're seeing the most strength? Is this kind of market-level strength, or are you seeing share gains here? Yeah. And then the second question was just around the capital environment in the US. So some kind of other sub-sectors talk about relatively strong demand in medical equipment. So what's kind of causing the weakness on the ophthalmology side compared to these kind of other areas?

Thank you. So maybe I start with the second question and then come to the first one. So as we said, BC currently, and you're totally right, I think there are different elements in the market. By the way, the same as what we have seen during Corona. Maybe you remember that in Corona, especially the consumable business has been more down and equipment business was up. And this is exactly what I would rate also when I'm looking here now to the U.S. market. There are some fields which are driven by special trends. and also by treatments and procedures which can be not shifted, like, for instance, now retinol or also tumor treatments or something like this. So, and this is exactly what we see here. We see that also, and this is an indication, for instance, in dog, we see that the recurring difference in dog is very stable and is growing. This was one of the reasons that we have acquired dog, and that's one of the reasons that we are converting now more and more in a consumables company. So we really want to leverage these two elements. And this is exactly the reason for the strategy. Also for the initiatives that I have presented to you to the mid to long-term, because we have now the full portfolio. And the plan is to leverage this portfolio then also with consumables in this approach. And the DOC is working here also for us as a capitalization where we can learn and where we can use this as a seed. So from this perspective, we believe that we can leverage this. As you said, so in U.S., we see in some parts now, for instance, for OCP, we see a strong growth with the relaunch of the 06000 to be actually proven that this is sustainable. The other one... is the strong growth in Europe. I think we see that in different elements, not only in equipment, but also in consumables. Overall, I would definitely say that we are not losing market share. We are rather winning market share. as far as we can see that. So overall, we see a positive momentum, but also here it's a country to country thing. So we see some countries very well performing, other countries, Also, with local legal implications or changes in the healthcare system, we see that other countries are not performing so well. So this is really something which comes down from country to country and then depends also on the different categories and elements here. But overall, we see that Europe is pretty strong for us, and we also don't have these currency headings, which are, for instance, favorable especially for the Chinese competition when it comes to U.S.

Thank you very much.

The next question is kind of a question from .

Yes. Hi. Good morning, everybody. I have two questions. I will start with the first, and then I will follow with the second. Looking at the evolution of your R&D, it's already a third quarter in a row of a sequential decline. In the third quarter, you book 84 million R&D, which was below my estimates, because I was assuming the consolidation of DORC as well. So I will understand, first of all, how much out of this 84 million R&D comes from DORC, and what we should expect going forward if you will stay at such a low level of R&D. Thank you.

Okay, David, thank you for your question. And so maybe first, so we don't see that our R&D activities are on the low level. Maybe to make that clear, David, I think the opposite is the case. We are on the high level also in the benchmarking to different competitors in the industry. So I think we are definitely leading here. And that was a deeper discussion also here in the conference in the earnings course in the past. So it's clear our R&D is on a high level. And what we have done now is actually that we have frozen our R&D growth in that way that we don't want to further increase our R&D investments. Now it's really important to make sure that our innovations or our products are coming as innovations to the market. And that's exactly what we do. These activities bringing now, so the commercial excellence activities and innovation excellence activities. So we need to make sure that our strategy, what we have also presented to you, these initial workflows, this workplace and workflow strategy, these acquisitions, all we have done, also this catalyst and cogent, So all of these things are coming together and this is now something that you will see in the next years that this will get momentum. The second question, I'm just, what has been the second question? Can you repeat the second question, please?

I didn't ask yet the second question. The second question is when you target midterm and EBIT margin above 20% at the group level, then what do you have in mind regarding the ophthalmic devices and microsurgery models In the sense, because higher competition in ophthalmic devices and also some pressing pressure, for example, coming from DDT in China, is it a fair assumption to assume in ophthalmic devices midterm your margin will stay below 20% in the region of high teens while microsurgery will run at a higher level of profitability?

You know, by and large, David, I would say that is probably a reasonable assumption. And, again, it is probably a little bit early to tell because, as you know, we are driving our workflow strategy across all our businesses. And that means that we strategically always want to increase the portion of consumers and recurring revenues. But for your calculation, I'd say that is probably a reasonable assumption for your model.

Thank you. Next question comes from Oliver . Oliver? The line is open.

No, I'm muted, sorry for that. Good morning. First question is on visibility. So obviously it has come down massively in both divisions and your communication suggests that you see the turn for better potentially somewhere in 2025. So is your confidence just based on macro assumptions and what does prevent you that the recovery might not be in or in 26 and not earlier and also all the measures you you mentioned target primarily on the bottom line. That's correct, isn't it? Second, it's also clarification and an add-on to Dylan's question. So can you confirm that your order of macrosurgery has basically eaten up strongly during the last quarters? And last one is on China. Can you describe your expectations for refractive if the economic crisis in China remains as it is? So what do you describe your expectations for demand also as more muted and what about the underlying demand in such a scenario? Thank you.

So maybe I take the question one and three just to talk about the audiobook. So Oliver, good morning. So visibility in terms of what will happen next year. So first of all, so we are an innovation-driven company. So our target is to be a technology and market leader. That means we are working on new innovations so that we can gain in the market. It's a profitable market, as you all know, that we gain market share here and that this is very profitable for us and sustainable. So this is the reason that we have invested so much in R&D in the past, much more than competition. and that we are very actually, we are expecting and we are very hopeful that this investment is paying back. Is it now something where I can tell you it's 26 or 25? I think we see currently some indications that the market is turning back to growth. but this will be more manifested in the next three months. This is, I think, by the end of the fiscal year, most likely we will see much, much more, whether this is sustainable or not, also only depending on what kind of macroeconomic effects are peaking in, because currently you know, with all the things which are happening in the world, it's really hard to say what can be helpful, what is not helpful. We have seen also a high currency effect this year, what next year will bring also in terms of currency. So all of this is really tough to say, but the positive element is really, and this is something you can take with you, is first, I think our innovations are in place, so more to come. And secondly, so we see already positive signs that the market softening is reducing and is maybe coming back to growth. In terms of, and this is what Justo said, we are really, actually we have started already with our resilience measures already last year. So, and we have different stages. And we started last year with the first stages now with the high momentum coming in in the market in the last couple of months. Actually, we then adopted our resilience. And as you can imagine, such a big company has a given inertia until the things are getting traction. And this is what we see now and what we see especially now for the last quarter and the quarters to come. In terms of China refractive, first of all, we believe that the market is not saturated yet. So that's, I think, quite important to say. So myopia is the most severe issue when it comes to ophthalmology, apart from and other things. But in these market groups, and especially in Asia, but also in Europe myopia progression is something which is increasing. And from this point of view, the market is a strong one and is increasing. I think that's also a pressure then for our customers in the market group to go for these treatments. So overall, I think that's intact. Currently, the consumer climate is really under stress, as we all know, especially also in China. I think there's other companies which are facing much, much more issues as we currently do. I think the critical part will be also here again that we will lead with innovations. If we don't have these innovations, there will be also local player coming up in the mid to long-term future. So all of these things, and this is something that we can win. On the one hand, with innovations, on the other hand, the technicalization, but also with a strong workforce, combined with workflow solutions, which offers a full solution, a safe solution, to the users and to the customers here. I think we are very well established and here. So from this point of view, you will see how this is progressing. We see currently strong entry coming in, especially also from China. And there's definitely untapped market potential that we want actually to reach and to leverage.

Yeah, and maybe lastly, your question on the MCS order backlog. Yeah, I think I can confirm that the majority of the backlog for MCS has been consumed, and I think that was your question, so I can confirm on that, yeah. Yes, it was. Thank you very much.

And the next question comes from Alexander Galitsa. Hi.

Yes, thank you. I just have two short ones. On R&D, I think previously you hinted that in light of the ongoing prioritization of R&D projects, that there might be potential write-offs. Can you provide an update on that, whether we should expect anything here? And second, I'm not sure if you can talk about it, with the varsity share by tax program, what has been the average cost base in the U.S.

Thank you. Yeah, I can take those questions, Alexander. So no information on write-offs at this point in time, too early to tell, and so that remains to be seen. decided at a later point. On the share, I beg, and now I really need Sebastian to help me. I think your question was, what was the average?

The cost is right. Alex, I think the information is on our website. I can actually send you the information afterwards, and you also find it on the Investor Relations website. Thank you. I'll take a look.

Okay. Thank you. Sorry for that.

And now we have the last question. So if you want to ask a question, please dial in with Nine Star on the telephone keypad. The last question comes from Angel Verma from JP Morgan.

Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. I have two quick ones, please. One on Dort. Can you please clarify when you expect the margins to reach mid-teens? Looking into this year, is there a contribution for at the EBIT level? Do you expect a positive contribution from DORC on the next basis? If so, can you provide any color of the audit traditionally, especially around the U.S. and China? And then the last one is on co-payings. You have new product launches coming out. How will you balance the sales and marketing spend required for new launches versus cost savings?

Hi, Antu. So on the dog clarification, you were asking about when do we think we will reach this mid-teens margin. I think that we will see that you have to know that they have a a more back-end loaded fiscal year with their fiscal year so far identical with the calendar year. So I would say we would see that then going into the first quarter of our next fiscal year that we come into that level of EBIT margin. The question on the EBIT accretive growth, I think that clearly is a function of the synergies being exploited and both on the top line as well as on the cost line. And therefore, there's clearly some dependence also on the market developments. But overall, I would think that this over the course of the next a calendar year um if those things are all developing um per our expectations can be achieved um order growth uh read i think was it by region or was it by by products i think the the the order yeah regions please regions please um i think um as we said it's uh it's pretty much across the board. But then again, with very distinct developments, if you go on country levels, generally spoken, we have seen order growth across EMEA, across Asia Pacific, and across the U.S., compared, obviously, to the lower first half of the year. And cost savings... You were basically asking the trade-off between product launches and cost savings. that we will not cut basically the branch on which we are sitting. So if we have a launch that we need to staff or that we need to invest in all associated marketing collaterals, then we will obviously do that. So that you can take for granted that on the other side, we believe still leave some room for let's say surgical adjustments.

Perfect, thank you.

So we have a question from Richard Felton, GS.

Thank you very much. Just one for you, please, on 2025. Based on what you're saying today about FY24 EBIT, there is quite a big gap up to where current consensus in 2025 sits, which I think is currently around 380. So my question is, look, Clearly, there's a lot of initiatives on cost going on. Do you feel like you have good visibility on a path to reaching that level of leadership currently in consensus in 2025? Or does a lot still depend on the overall market environment getting better into next year?

Thank you. I think your second half of your question or statement already gave the answer. As we said, the Chinese market recovery plays a major role for that equation and obviously also the U.S. recovery. Therefore, I think, as you just said, uncertainty is still unfortunately too high to give you now a kind of a comfort level confirmation. As Mark said, let's see how we close the year, how the The current indications that we see we'll figure out and it will be a lot easier coming December once we have the next earnings call to give you a somewhat more qualified answer.

Thank you. Now we have no more questions. Thanks to the host for the conclusion. Thank you very much.

Okay, thanks everybody for joining our call and look forward to conversations with you in the next week and maybe see some of you at the conference in September. Everybody have a nice summer break and speak to you soon.