Dbs Group Hldgs Ltd Ord

Okay, we will now resume the second part of our briefing. So on Q2, we reported today that we had another solid quarter with second quarter net profit of 2.8 billion, up 4% from a year ago. And return on equity was .2% and this took our first half net profit to a record. So we have Sok P and Peej with us. And without further ado, Sok P please.

Good evening everyone.

Backing.

We delivered another strong performance in the second quarter with net profit rising 4% from a year ago to 2.80 billion and ROE at 18.2%. This brought first half total income and net profit to new highs. For the second quarter, total income increased 9% from a year ago to 5.48 billion, with the commercial book increasing 9% to 5.30 billion. The growth was broad based. Net interest income was higher as the balance sheet grew and net interest margin expanded two basis points to 2.83%. Net interest income reached a new high and treasury customer sales remained strong. Markets trading income also grew 6%. Expenses were 12% higher with City Taiwan accounting for 5 percentage points. The cost to income ratio was 40%. For the first half, net profit was up 9% to 5.76 billion. Total income increased 11% to 11.0 billion as fee income and treasury customer sales reached new highs and commercial book net interest margin expanded by 5 basis points. Expenses rose 11% with City Taiwan accounting for 5 percentage points. They were little changed compared to the previous half. The cost to income ratio was 39%. Asset quality remained sound. The NPL ratio was unchanged from the previous quarter at 1.1%. Specific allowances remained low at 8 basis points of loans for the second quarter, bringing the first half to 9 basis points. Allowance coverage was at 129% and 227% after considering collateral. Capital was healthy with CET1 ratio at 14.8%. Liquidity remained ample with LCR and NSFR well above regulatory requirements. The board declared a dividend of $0.54 per share for the second quarter. Next slide. Compared to a year ago, net profit was 4% higher as total income grew 9%. Commercial book income increased 9% to 5.30 billion. The growth was broad-based. Net interest income rose 5% or $188 million to 3.77 billion as net interest margin improved 2 basis points and loans grew. Fee income rose 27% or $225 million to $1.05 billion with double-digit growth in wealth management, cards and loan-related fees. Treasury customer sales and other income remained strong, increasing 3% or $14 million to $478 million. Markets trading income also rose by 6% or $10 million to $187 million. Expenses were 12% or $241 million higher at $2.17 billion, with City Taiwan accounting for 5 percentage points of the increase. Profit before allowances increased 6% to $3.31 billion. Specific allowances remained low at $97 million or 8 basis points of loans. General allowances of $51 million were taken compared to a right back a year ago. Compared to the previous quarter's record, net profit was 5% lower as total income was little changed and expenses rose 4%. Commercial book total income was stable. Net interest income increased 3% or $122 million as net interest margin expanded 6 basis points led by fixed-rate asset repricing. Fee income rose slightly to a new high. These gains were offset by 23% or $143 million decline in commercial book other non-interest income. Excluding non-recurring gains, commercial book other non-interest income was 15% lower than the previous quarter. Markets trading income fell 24% or $59 million. Expenses rose 4% or $93 million led by higher staff costs. Profit before allowances were 5% lower. Total allowances were 10% or $13 million higher from a low base. For the first half, net profit increased 9% as total income rose 11%. Both were at new highs. Commercial book total income grew 11%. Net interest income grew 6% or $451 million to $7.42 billion as net interest margin expanded 5 basis points from higher interest rates. Fee income rose 25% or $417 million to a record $2.09 billion led by growth in wealth management fees, card fees and loan-related fees. Treasury customer sales and other income increased 23% or $203 million to $1.10 billion. Excluding non-recurring gains, it was up 12%. Markets trading income was little changed at $433 million. Expenses grew 11% or $438 million to $4.25 billion. City Taiwan accounted for 5 percentage points of the increase. The -to-income ratio was 39%. Profit before allowances was 10% higher at $6.79 billion. Specific allowances remained low at $210 million or 9 basis points of loans, similar to the 8 basis points a year ago. General allowances of $73 million were taken. Compared to the previous quarter, commercial book net interest income increased 3% to $3.77 billion. Net interest margin improved 6 basis points to .83% led by fixed-rate asset repricing. Compared to a year ago, commercial book net interest income rose 5% as net interest margin improved 2 basis points and loans and deposits were higher. Markets trading net interest income continued to be negative this quarter due to products with inherent accounting asymmetry where income is taken in a non-interest income line and funding cost is taken in the net interest income line. These activities are accretive to income but dilutive to net interest margin at the GFM level. Combining the commercial book and the markets trading, the group's net interest income grew 3% from the previous quarter to $3.59 billion while net interest margin was unchanged at 2.14%. Compared to a year ago, group net interest income was 5% higher as growth in loans and deposits was partially offset by a 2 basis point contraction in net interest margin. For the first half, commercial book net interest income increased 6% to $7.42 billion from a 5 basis point expansion in net interest margin to 2.80%. The group's total net interest income was 6% higher driven by loan and deposit growth and stable net interest margin of 2.14%. Gross loans were stable in constant currency terms during the quarter at $431 billion as increases in trade and wealth management loans were offset by a decline in non-trade corporate loans. While there was good demand for non-trade corporate loans, this was offset by idiosyncratic repayments, including some due to asset sales by clients. Over the first half, loans grew 1% or $5 billion. The growth was led by trade and non-trade corporate loans, both of which grew by $3 billion. During the quarter, deposits were stable in constant currency terms as KASA and fixed deposit flows stabilised. KASA declined $2 billion. One third of the first quarter's pays and one fifth a year ago. Amidst the slower loan growth, we continue to profitably deploy surplus deposits to high-quality liquid assets. These assets consume limited capital and boost liquidity ratios. LCR of 148% and NSFR of 116% were well above regulatory requirements. Next slide. Second quarter gross fee income rose 27% from a year ago to $1.26 billion. Excluding City Taiwan, which is consolidated in third quarter 2023, gross fee income grew 17%, unchanged from both the previous two quarters. This quarter's growth was led by wealth management fees, which rose 37% to $518 million. Excluding City, they increased 25% driven by a shift from deposits to investments and bank assurance and by expanded assets under management. Asset under management grew 24% -on-year to a new high of $396 billion, with City contributing 10 percentage points to the increase. We had $3 billion of net new money inflows in the second quarter, bringing the total to $9 billion for the first half. Gross inflows remained strong during the quarter, but outflows were higher due to client diversification into real assets and more competitive deposit rates offered by other banks. Card fees increased 32% to $313 million from higher spending and inclusion of City. Excluding City, card fees rose 9%. Loan-related fees also saw significant growth, rising 40% to $186 million due to an increased number of deals. Transaction service fees were 3% higher at $228 million, while investment banking fees fell 39% to $19 million. For the first half, gross fee income rose 26% to a record of $2.54 billion. Next slide. First half commercial book non-interest income, which is boxed up in red, rose 24% from a year ago to $3.19 billion. The growth was driven by fee income and treasury customer sales, which both reached new highs. There were also non-recurring gains on FX hedges for our overseas operations, accounting for around $100 million, or 4 percentage points of the increase. For the second quarter, commercial book non-interest income was 19% higher than a year ago at $1.53 billion. Fee income was at a record, while treasury customer sales were over 20% higher. Compared to the previous quarter and excluding non-recurring gains, commercial book non-interest income was 5% lower. Combining commercial book and markets trading, total non-interest income was $3.94 billion for the first half. 20% higher than a year ago. For the second quarter, it was $1.89 billion, 17% higher than a year ago. Next. First half, expenses rose 11% from a year ago to $4.25 billion, with City Taiwan accounting for 5 percentage points of the increase. Compared to the previous half, expenses were a little changed. The cost to income ratio was at 39%. Second quarter expenses were 12% higher than a year ago at $2.17 billion, with City Taiwan accounting for 5 percentage points of the increase. Compared to the previous quarter, expenses rose 4%, led by higher staff costs. The cost to income ratio was at 40%. Next slide. Asset quality remained resilient. Non-performing assets fell 3% from the previous quarter to $5.08 billion as new non-performing asset formation was more than offset by repayments and write-offs. Assumed new MPAs in the first quarter were settled in the second quarter. As such, first half new MPAs were less than the sum of the first and second quarters. The MPL ratio was unchanged at 1.1%. Next slide. Next slide. The total allowance reserves stood at $6.55 billion, with $2.57 billion in specific allowance reserves and $3.98 billion in general allowance reserves. Allowance coverage stood at 129% and at 227% after considering collateral. Next slide. Based on yesterday's closing share price and assuming that dividends are held at $0.54 per quarter, the annualized dividend yield is 6.6%. In summary, we delivered another strong set of results for the second quarter, bringing first half earnings to a new high with ROE at 18.8%. While recent market volatility and ongoing geopolitical tensions have resulted in heightened uncertainty, we have built resilience against the risks of an economic slowdown and lower interest rates. Our high general allowance reserves, our reduced interest rate sensitivity, our strong capital position and ample liquidity will position us to continue supporting customers and delivering shareholder returns. Thank you for your attention. I will now pass to you over to Piyush.

Thanks, Sokri. So let me again have two slides. I'll just give you some insights on the quarter and then some thoughts about the outlook as we go forward. So first, as Sokri pointed out, our NIMM stayed unchanged at 2.14, which is very strong, which is very good. And that's really driven by the commercial book where the fixed asset repricing came in quite handy. As you know, we indicated earlier about $40 billion of fixed asset repricing to flow through this year, of which 27 was in the first half of the year. So we repriced that. And in the repricing, you get a pickup of about 180 basis points. So that's quite helpful for the commercial book NIMM. But on top of that, we also took the opportunity to add a lot more duration, add a lot more fixed rate assets. And so actually we put on $40 billion of fixed rate assets, which is just 27. We add another $12-13 billion more. Our total fixed asset book is now $190 billion. And all of that helped drive the commercial book NIMM and the NII. Now, this is obviously offset a little bit because treasury markets, the funding cost is still a drag. But more specifically, we continue to take money in treasury markets is relatively affordable money and deploy it in low risk placements. These are accretive to income, but they dilute the NIMM. They're not the same NIMM as everything else, but they're really low risk assets. And so they actually help our income improve. We balance those two out, the commercial book improvement in the markets trading drag. We still got a flat NIMM. I think that is one big agenda, one big item for this quarter. The second was loans. Our loan growth is actually looking like it's stable. We didn't get loan growth. But in reality, if you look at the underlying, we continue to get a lot of new loans booked. And you can make that out from our loan fees. Our loan fees at $180 million were the same as the first quarter. And these are at least $30-40 million more than a difficult quarter. So we continue to see a strong, healthy pipeline of loans. But we lost some loan volume for what Sokhoi described as idiosyncratic reasons. A couple of our clients did some large portfolio sales of assets and then they paid us down. And so that resulted in not being able to show any loan growth on the balance sheet. But the pipeline was quite good. The fee income was really the standout. Our total fee income wealth management was up. As again Sokhoi pointed out, it looks like it's 37% percent, but that includes Citi. If we exclude Citi, it's 25%. The first quarter excluding Citi was 21% percent. So if you average for the half year, it's like -23% fee income growth in wealth management, which is extraordinary. Cards is very strong. If I back out Citi, it's still 9% growth in the cards. And loans, I already said $180 million loan fees. So the fee income has been very strong. Wealth momentum continues. We continue to see inflows of new money. We continue to see clients shift from deposits to investment. We went up by another percentage point to 55% investments out of AUMs for the quarter. And card spending continues to be relatively robust. So relatively comfortable with the momentum we have on this line. Cost income ratio continues to be fairly steady. And the last call out is asset quality has been quite healthy. We're not seeing signs of stress and strain generally in the system. The real estate portfolio in China, Hong Kong, continues to be a little bit troubled. But as I mentioned before, we're mostly secure. We don't have large, you know, vulnerable positions. So there is some migration impact that shows up in our general provisions. But by and large, the asset quality is continued to be good. Our specific provisions are low. We had some nine basis points in specific provisions for the quarter. There is even on the consumer side, the cards delinquencies that indicate the first quarter delinquencies were picking up. Actually, they've leveled off. And so our actions and collections and card management have paid off. We're not seeing further deterioration in the second quarter. Unsecured lending is still creeping up in a couple of markets. In Hong Kong, in particular, in India, but it's not material in the beginning of things. So overall, asset quality continues to be quite good at this point in time. If you look at the outlooks of where we are, you know, the market volatility, the tension, you know, obviously in the last couple of days, there'll be a lot of heightened uncertainties. It's kind of hard to say how many cuts there will be, what's going to happen. But I did want to point out that we have built resiliency against potential economic slowdown and lower interest rates. What do I mean by that? First, from the economic slowdown, as you know, we've got general provisions of almost four billion dollars. Our models come up with a number which is much lower, 1.7, 1.8 billion. So we've over two billion dollars of general provisions, which are what we call overlays. Those have been in place now for some time, in fact, past COVID, and we haven't touched those. So we do have a reasonable amount of dry powder to help us absorb any unexpected risk from recession or sharp slowdown. Second, on interest rates, to go back to what I said, you know, we build duration in the book. We've added over the last couple of years almost 65 billion dollars of fixed-rate assets. We have about 190 billion dollars now of fixed-rate assets. And that makes a big difference to the interest rate sensitivity of our book. So if you look at the next point, I'll say that on the way up, we had guided at one stage that the interest rate sensitivity we had was 18 to 20 million dollars per basis point, which means that if Fed fund rate went up by 100 basis points, you should expect to see 1.82 billion dollars impact on our top line. And if you look back, that's what you saw as rates climbed up. Our bottom line has gone up from six billion to well over 10 billion. A lot of it driven by rates. But what we've also done over the last year or two is prepared ourselves for a new environment. One, because obviously a lot of our CASA balances have gone into fixed deposits and therefore they are less sensitive on the way down. But mostly because we've added duration. We've got a duration of three, three and a half years in the book. And that's actually been quite helpful. So at this point in time on the way down, our interest rate sensitivity is only about four million dollars, which means that if the Fed cuts rates by 100 basis points, we should expect to lose about 400 million in income top line on a full year basis. Now that shows that our book is a lot more resilient as we go forward, both to credit challenges as well as to income challenges. The commercial book non interest income, as I mentioned earlier, momentum is good. The wealth business is very good. Cards is good. Lending is good. Only investment banking has been slow. Fixed income was OK. ECM continued to be really, really challenged. The outlook as you go forward is a little less clear. By and large, if the markets sell off massively, then you will see some impact on wealth management because people tend to be risk of a market sell off. But the good news is that after the sell off day before the markets rebounded yesterday and so far we are not seeing any let up in momentum. In fact, even going into the third quarter over July, numbers are very strong. So our outlook currently based on all this, we expect total income growth to be high single digit for this year. There's still factors in a couple of rate cuts. So we haven't changed that. But even if the rate cuts are more, the reality, like I said, is four million dollars per basis point. And if the rate cuts happen late in the year, we see more rate cuts in November. That's like a month or two months of impact. It's not going to material change that this income guidance is now stronger than we had earlier. We were started with low than we said, probably mid single digits. Now, based on the strong run we've had, we think we can get to high single digit income growth for the year. Cost income ratio is still a target to do around 40 percent. The other thing where we think we do better than previous guidance is our allowances. We earlier guided 17 to 20 basis points just based on through cycle average. At this point in time, we don't know about nine basis points in the first half of the year. We're not seeing any major stress. I'm still guiding 10 to 15 basis points because you really don't know what might happen in the next three, four months. But if I had to bet, I'd say we'd probably come in somewhere halfway through that range. But 10 to 15 basis points is probably a good guidance. So when you add all of that together, you will get net profit growth in the mid to high single digits for this year. Remember, we did 10.2 or 10.3 last year. And so you can work the numbers and see that we will have a pretty solid year this year as well. So why don't I stop and we can take some questions.

OK, again, the same drill. If you have a question, please, you know, let us know. And we have moving mics so you can speak into a mic in front of you. Any questions? OK, well, it seems like the results quite self-explanatory. So with that, then, if there are no questions, we'll draw this time to a close. Oh, sorry. Sorry. There's a question. Still in your forums.

OK, thanks for the presentation. Congrats on the results. So just a few questions here. I think the first one, your second quarter, ECL one and two rose quarter on quarter and year on year. And it was right back in the second quarter of last year as well. But the loans didn't grow quarter on quarter and only two percent year on year. So are there any areas of concern? I know that PWC has flagged issues and further issues in Hong Kong commercial estate. And my second question, could you just provide some color on the profile of your customers with commercial estate loans, maybe in markets like Hong Kong and the US? One of your peer banks mentioned broadening into other areas like residential, for example. So any thoughts on this? And finally, how will you continue to defend your 10 billion dollar profit for this year and the next?

Thanks. Well, on the first, I think I'll leave it at that. You know, our total commercial property exposure in China, we've said the total property exposure in China is about 14 billion Singh. Right. And we said before, it's about six billion to state owned enterprises, which are pretty solid. It's about four million, four billion to foreign enterprises, the Singapore companies, which are there, which is also fairly well covered. And then it's about two billion each to private enterprises and our, you know, REITs in China. Our total commercial, our total exposure to property in Hong Kong is about 30, of which commercial is about 18. There's a little bit of overlap because that includes about a billion of Chinese companies in Hong Kong, but then we can not at all. But the bulk of that is to the big Hongs, to the large, you know, the Cheng Kong, the industry, etc., etc. We think that exposure is pretty solid. But there is a small amount to what you call large corporates, but not the blue chips. So there is some. And because of the headwinds in the property sector, there is some migration in our portfolio in those two categories. The POE is this thing in China and some of these small names in Hong Kong. But the numbers are not big. It's quite manageable. But as this portfolio migrates, the way we calculate our ECL is if the portfolio shows weakness, we add ECL. And therefore you can see that our ECL is up for the quarter. That's only because it's reflecting a portfolio migration that something must have moved from amber to red or something. And that results in chalking up greater ECL. We've had two NPLs in the portfolio between China and Hong Kong this year. First quarter we had won about $100 million. And second quarter we had won about $100 million. In both cases, our loan to value is very low. And at least one case is likely to get resolved in the next couple of days. So we expect to get paid out. So it's not a big problem. It's a manageable problem. But that explains the ECL lift that you see. Your second question on commercial. I already told you was an ancient profile of commercial real estate and this thing. We're not seeing any challenges in the rest of our property portfolio. Anyway, it's actually quite stable. And your last thing, how do you defend the profit level for this year? It's early to give guidance for next year. But if you go back to interstate sensitivity, if you go $4 million per basis point, even if you assume the Fed does eight rate cuts, right? And if you go five, six on the average, because they won't do them all in the beginning of the year, that's six, seven hundred million bucks of income loss. So the question is, can we then get that income loss through increase in the loan book? I think if rates come down, your lending will go up. So I think we should be able to pick up more loan volume if rates start coming down. And I already said the uncertainty is what happens to things like wealth management. Generally speaking, if rates come down and the markets are benefited by that, wealth management should be fine. So I don't see anything to change that fundamentally unless there's a big sell-off in the markets and people go into a cold phase. It's not impossible, but unlikely. So if you figure we lose some income on the interest rates coming down, but we'll make it up on volume when we continue to make it up on double digit growth and non-interest income, that makes us reasonably well positioned for the next year. So your last question would just be, you know, so what do you do on cost of credit? Like I said, we have enough reserves. So if we really have an outside solution, we can dip into the reserves. Right now, we're not seeing a need to do that either.

Felicia. Hi, Felicia from the Edge Singapore as well. A few questions more on your digital banks. The first one is, do they pose any challenges in Singapore and do digital banks pose any challenges in your overseas markets? The second one is, are you attracting Casa and other markets such as India? And are you attracting new accounts via DigiBank in India? So the final question is, how many customers does DBS have on its DigiBank and are there plans to roll out more products on your app? And how do you attract new customers to DigiBank?

So a lot of questions. So funny. So on digital banks, I've said that before. I mean, obviously everybody is a threat. Anybody who comes in with a banking proposition is a challenge and a threat and you've got to be competitively positioned. But in our home market, I think not just us, all the Singapore banks have done enough on the digital front to ensure we are as credible as any digital bank. There is no digital bank out there which has created digital capability or experiences or products or solutions better than we have. And therefore we're not finding that anybody's coming and saying, oh my God, I'm going to shift because the digital banking is so much better than DBS has happened. So I don't think that's a threat. The real threat really comes from the fact that some new banks, digital or not, we use pricing. So they have, but we've seen already in Hong Kong this thing and we've seen here as well. Pricing is only for short periods of time. They do tactical promos. They cannot continue to do it continuously. And so you wind our experience so far has been that the digital bank tend to compete in very small niche segments of the market. But the broader market, where the large revenue pools in the wallet pools are, you know, you can hold your own against them. And that's what we're seeing. So we're not, you look at our quarter after quarter, our growth rates and our income and our results and all our markets is going to show that we can we can hold our own. In terms of Kasa growth, we're getting Kasa growth everywhere, including in Indonesia, India, where we use Digibank. We are getting Kasa growth. To be fair, if you just use digital, we found it hard to get Kasa. So to get Kasa, we've had to go digital. The fact that we have a branch presence, we have 500 branches, we marry that with the digital capability. And so customers still, we've come to the point where they like to see the branch, they like to see it. But then they want to deal on the mobile and they want to deal on the desktop. So basis that we continue to grow Kasa and get Kasa in flow everywhere. But you do need to be digital. This cannot be purely digital. We continue to improve our product offerings. So we have a complete suite in all of the markets that we have, which is the way we build on the mobile phone. But again, like everything, we have to keep improving. So there's some capabilities. For example, we have it on mobile, but we don't have it on the desktop. So we've got to build it back and make sure. You know, we learned Digibank. Our original premise was that we will only do mobile. And then we learned over two, three years that that doesn't work. And it doesn't work partly because signal goes, the signal drops. And then you can't do mobile, so you want to go back to your desktop. So we need to have a desktop backup offering. But when we built the desktop backup offering, we didn't put all the same functionality. So we've got to go back and keep improving. So mobile as well, we keep improving the functionality. One of the things that we work very hard on adding more and more artificial intelligence and engineer into our offerings, they'll be very constructive. In Singapore, for example, we do 30 million nudges a year using AI. We don't have the same number of nudges in the markets outside India. So we're still building the AI capability. We have the capability, the databases to be able to do similar kind of nudges as another example. What was your last question?

How do you attract new customers to Digibank?

So it's not straightforward. You know, when we try to tag customers through digital marketing, we found you get adverse customer selection. Because you get a lot of customers, you know, when we in our first 18 months in India, we got 3 million customers through marketing, through Facebook, Google, direct to customer channels. The problem is that many of these customers are not good quality customers. So you get the eyeball, but you don't know how to monetize that customer. So we change our strategy and it goes back to the digital. So today what we do is we make sure that we leverage the branch presence, the shingle, along with the digital push. And so now we get much better quality customers. But again, you need to marry both the physical and the digital.

Just to follow up, the 500 branches is global, is it? No,

that's in India.

India alone. Okay, thank you. So how many branches do you have in Indonesia then?

In Indonesia, we have about 50 branches.

Okay, thank you.

I have a question on CET1 ratio, which is still quite innovative. I mean, can you share on capital returns plan, any share by that plans or any vote on still on your mind?

Yeah, so, you know, I mean, as far as you pointed out, we've been quite generous in our capital and dividend distribution already. You know, 32% up, you said, you're near to something. So our dividend yield is great at 6.6%. I saw you raise your eyebrows when she said that. So it is a good dividend. Now, having said that, yes, it's still true that our actual capital adequacy is still very high. And, you know, we have some fairly well-developed plans now in respect to how to return capital. But this is one of the things that today is Sushant's first day on the job. I think it's only fair that when it comes to return of capital and capital management, she gets an opportunity to look at it and weigh in.

So you won't do a NOEQ when?

You

won't do a NOEQ.

What a NOEQ when do? Will

they share by that?

So I've never said what we will do, won't do. We won't do it today.

Questions from? I'm sitting out. What do you think? Sorry. I just wanted to ask, it's good to hear that you have very strong performance and the wealth business is very good. You can share with us something, you know, like MES is asking for, has been asking for anti-money laundering safeguards. So just wonder how do you can give us a sense of how you balance between the need for caution due to these requirements and, you know, your clients.

Yeah, you know, first of all, I want to start with the trillion dollars of money flow around the world. And so you have to start with the assumption you'll never get zero anti-money laundering. I say it's like crime. If you really thought you could get zero crime, you wouldn't hire a police force in any country. But no matter how good a country is, you still have police and you still have courts and you still have judges because people still commit crimes. And so money laundering is no different from that. You will still have people who try to commit crimes and some people will get away with it. So you start with that understanding. However, within that, we've been very, very focused on trying to make sure that we are very, very diligent on the quality of the money that comes in, the people that come in. And in addition to checks, you know, manual checks, we increasingly are using data and artificial intelligence. So we use data to scroll all of the universes to see if somebody got a record, is the name picking up anywhere? Does somebody look this thing? And then we look at the nature of the transactions that flow through and then we do post transaction surveillance. What money flows through an account? Does it go up? Does it go down? In truth, we focus bulk of this on large value clients, the private bank, which is the big money. And so they will be much more buttoned up over there. In low value clients, you know, we have 18 million customers. So if somebody opened the credit card account, open the small account, you can't do the same degree of diligence, at least in the past. And if you look at the last fusion case, many of them opened accounts in the retail bank, the small value account. So sometimes those kinds of accounts slip through the system. What we are trying to do is use same data and AI to tighten up that process as well, even in the larger market. That's the only way it can be done. Physically, you'll have to require hundreds of thousands of people to look at every transaction. So you have to rely on technology and you have to rely on increasing the AI to pick up these behavior patterns so you can take them, block them down. So we continue to do that. We continue to refine the rules. We continue to tighten. We continue to put AI so that you can get the balance right. We continue to be an attractive wealth center, but keep out the bad guys as far as possible.

Is there a final question?

Okay, thank you. Thanks for joining us.