d'Amico International Shipping S.A.

Good afternoon. This is the Corsco Conference Operator. Welcome and thank you for joining the D'Amico International Shipping Full Year 2020 Results Conference Call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Should anyone need assistance during the conference, call them and signal an operator by pressing star and zero on their telephone. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Paolo D'Amico, CEO of D'Amico International Shipping. Please go ahead, sir.

Thank you. Hello to everybody. Welcome to this full year 2020 presentation. Thank you for being with us. I would jump the executive summary because we end up repeating ourselves twice, so just to make things a little bit easier. I'll jump and just tell you as an introduction that DIS posted a net profit of 16.6 in full year 2020 and is an adjusted net result excluding the non-recurring and non-cash items of 22.5 for full year 2020. What I would like to point out that the The fourth quarter 2020, DIS generated a daily spot average rate of 11,699. But if you blend that with our time charter coverage, it becomes 15,192, which means that DIS got the right strategy last year as far as chartering out the fleet. But anyhow, I'll come back later on on the market, and I leave the floor to Carlos Balestra on the financials. Thank you.

Thank you, Paolo. Good afternoon to everyone. Just a quick look, as usual, to our fleet profile. We'll start with that. Not much has changed since the last quarter, but if we look over a longer period, of course, you'll notice that the fleet has been contracting slightly. It has been the result of the re-delivery of some shorter-term TCM vessels and also, of course, the result of the vessel disposals that we actively pursued to strengthen our financial structure. And last year we sold five vessels, one in JV and four fully owned. And therefore, thanks to that and of course also thanks to the good results in the year, we managed to significantly strengthen our balance sheet as we will see later. We are and we remain, of course, a predominantly MR operator. I would also like to highlight that the TCN fleet as a proportion of the overall fleet has decreased. And today, 70% of our fleet is either owned or bearable chartered in. And for us, these are like owned vessels because we have purchase obligations. They're just financed through leasing structures. We have a very young fleet, an average age of 6.9 years, of course, which is a result of the disposals of the older vessels in our fleet and also of the delivery of several young vessels over the last few years. 22, which we ordered since 2012 and which were delivered to us since 2014, with the last one delivered in Q4-19. Going on to the following page, CAPEX commitments. These, as we have highlighted over the last few quarters, have been falling and will continue falling over the next few years. In 2021, it is of only 5.5 million of our estimates. and relative to 12 million in 2020. It's only maintenance capex that we have left, and it will fall further to 3.1 million in 2022. Going on to the following page, the debt repayments. Here we would like to highlight once again that we are And now we don't have any more balloons to refinance in 2021. We are fully refinanced there. So first balloons, which we will have to refinance in 2022, and we will start working on that in the second half of this year. And in terms of daily debt repayments on the own vessels, We highlighted in the past already how this has fallen considerably since 2019 when we finished reimbursing the medium-term facility we had with Intesa. And it will gradually fall over the next two years. And then more sharply in 2023, we have a small working capital facility on some vessels which is fully reimbursed by 2022. And thereafter, therefore, our breakeven on the own vessels will also benefit from having terminated the reimbursement of this facility. Going on to the following page, here we show the purchase options we have. We had nine. We exercised one in February this year on the high priority. It was a bit of an outlier. It was by far the most expensive leasing structure we had. And it's also the only leasing structure we had on an old vessel. And it had a shorter maturity in October 22. So we had ample cash reserves, as you will see at the end of the year. So we decided to exercise this to save considerable amount of interest expense. And we refinance with traditional bank debt at quite a low LTV. Of course, the objective is then to sell this vessel at the right time. We are not in a hurry. Given the current weak markets, we're not going to be pushing for an imminent sale. That's a very good opportunity arise for people possibly to dispose of this vessel over the course of the next 18 months, maximum two years. Going on, of the remaining options, we have eight remaining. Six are already exercisable. Seven are theoretically in the money. A seventh option will be exercisable at the High Voyager in April already this year, so very soon. And the Chelsea-Hulson, well, that one we have to wait until 2024. So going on to the following page, we have a quick look here at our coverage and the average rates at which our vessels are covered. Since we last provided these figures, you will notice that the average rates for 2021 have fallen, but of course also the percentage of the fleet covered has risen. We are now around 37% covered for the full year 2021 through context, which is slightly below our minimum target coverage of 40% for the following 12 months. As some contracts terminate, we would most likely be expanding them with the current charter, so this percentage coverage is likely to increase, although, of course, at a lower rate than the average rate that we currently have, given the current week market conditions. Nonetheless, the average rates which we have are above our break even on the contracts. I would say well above. And also the positive aspect is that we have 51% coverage for Q1 and 43% for Q2. where we expect markets, where we are seeing Q1 that markets are weak and Q2 we don't expect markets to have improved yet. So, for the second half of the year, there is a chance the markets might show some signs of improvement. So, we have a good chance of being open when more open, having more open days as the market starts improving in Q4 2021 especially and then in 2022 our coverage is still very low at only 10%. So we have covered when the market is weak now and we will be exposed hopefully when the market will be strong or very strong in 2022. In terms of the percentage of the fleet that we control, it is increasingly an echo fleet. This is a percentage of all controlled vessels, so also TCE and vessels. It went up from 38% in Q118 to 70% in Q420 and an estimated 70% in fiscal year 21. So as we continue selling some of our older vessels, this percentage will continue rising. If we go to the following page, we have the fleet evolution, and we show the average number of vessels controlled. It is falling slightly over the next two years as a result of the re-delivery of some TCN vessels. But the spot exposure overall increases because of the lower contract average that I just mentioned. In 2022, we have a $12 million exposure for every $1,000 per day change in the TCA equivalent rate, and a $13 million exposure in 2023, and only an $8.6 million in 2021. So going on to the following period, page 13, we look also at the costs here. We have been working hard to bring down our daily operating costs. Of course, we have benefited from the fact that we have an increasingly younger fleet. Of course, that means lower operating costs, lower failures. Also, we have benefited over the last few years from a relatively strong dollar. since some of our technical management expenses are in currencies other than the US dollar. But we also have benefits from investments in technology, which allowed us to adopt condition-based maintenance, which means that we can inspect parts and we can determine much better when they have to be replaced, lengthening the average life of these spare parts in our vessels significantly, and also reducing off-tires. We also did quite well in terms of G&A costs. We have brought them down significantly since 2018 by 20%. Small increase between 19 and 20, but a very significant increase, decrease between 18 and 20.

Going on to the following page.

Going on to the following page on the net financial position. We see that the ratio between the fleet market value, the net financial position and the fleet market value is of 66% at the end of the year, and that is still a very healthy level. It is slightly higher than at the end of 2019, but significantly lower than at the end of 2018. The reason it deteriorated a bit relative to the end of 2019 is that the vessel values in the last quarter of the year especially came down as a result of the weak freight markets. Going on to the following page, a glance here at our results. of which Paulo already provided some highlights. Overall net result of 16.6 million in the year and excluding non-recurring items of 22.5. If we look at only Q4, the net result is of around $1 million. and excluding non-recurring items, it's slightly negative of $3.6 million. But I can say that we comfortably outperformed all of our peers with regards to the Q4 results, thanks to both a very good performance of our vessels on the spot market, but mainly because of our contract coverage strategy. which allowed us to be very covered in Q4 of last year at a very good rate. So that helped us a lot. And in detail, if we look at the following page, we have the figures. And in Q4, we benefited from 56%, almost 57% contract coverage and we earned on the spot market $11,700 per day, which allowed us to achieve a blended rate of almost $15,200 per day. For the full year, the spot result for our vessels is of $16,770, and the blended result, including the contract coverage, of $16,560. And I now pass it over to Paolo that will walk you over our overview of the markets and of its fundamentals. Thank you.

Thank you, Carlos. The market history in 2020 is all known, but let's repeat it quickly. January started a good market. The fundamentals was there. But then arrived COVID. There's been a demand destruction due to that. And to add that also, Saudi Arabia and Russia start quarreling on prices. So the price of the barrel went, well, it collapsed. And there's been even negative for a few days. This pushed everybody to buy oil and storage went up. Storage was full onshore and then we started chartering ships to store even more oil. This has been creating a lack of supply but all this at a certain point on the second half of the year, the freight market collapsed. The LCCs that were even touching $300,000 for a few fixtures, of course, went down to under operating cost level. This is history because we think that today things are bottoming up, even in rates, but also on ship's value as well. As Carlos said before, we suffered a little bit of a loss on the fleet market value to loans because of correction of ship prices on the fourth quarter. But this is, I have to say, we already have a sentiment that is rebounding, so I'm very I'm very positive on this point. Talking about refining, which is our main driver because it's where our demand comes from, it's forecast that the refining will grow by 5.4 million barrels per day in 2021 and oil consumption will reach 96.4 always in 2021. This would mean that it's recovering 60% of the loss due to COVID. I remember that before COVID, we were burning around 100 million barrels per day. The global refining throughput declined during 2020 by 7.2 million barrels and to 74.4, but we expect a recovery around 4.1 in 2021. So, touching wood, we are on our way back up again. As I said, there has been a big build-up of floating storage. On clean, refined products, we had an increase from 25 million barrels stored in December 2019 to a peak of 75 million barrels in early May 2020. And then the unwind came in and the storage fell down to 25 million barrels by the end of 2020 from the 75. So 50 million barrels stored have been unwinded basically in six months. And this creates, of course, a strong demand. market reaction, not only because the barrels were stored close to consumption, so there was no shipping around. On top of that, more ships getting out of storage became available to the market, so an increase of supply. We still think, we are on page 21, that long-term demand is there. We believe in the fundamentals. Still, the participation of oil products to the oil trade is of one-third, so 33% of every ton of oil moved over the sea is a clean one. Of course, believing in a future better market, we see a lot of potential on other asset values. Going back again to the refinery landscape, there are a lot of changes and dramatic changes, we would say. If you look at page 23 and page 24 together, you will see that, for instance, Oceania, so Australia and New Zealand, are losing a lot of their capacity, domestic capacity. New Zealand is closing down the only refinery they have. and uh and uh australia is closing down um from tender refinery we used to have we are only at four uh running and probably we are going to close or even those four so both australia and new zealand would be net total not net the total new zealand and for a majority part the australia importer of clean products these are ton miles so is better demand for us. I can add to this that also in Europe we had five refineries which are already closed and there are talks that another five are going to close during the year due to the lack of demand and very low refining margins. Adding to that, we have a very slow fleet growth. Even if we have a very lousy scrapping rate, because basically a very limited number of ships are going to scrapyards, even if the scrap value today is quite high, because it's far over $400 per light-ton, which is a good value, if you think. But anyhow, the fleet is... expect to grow by 2.6% in 21 and 0.3% in 22. Anyhow, we expect, of course, pick up in demolition in 21 due to the values that we see on the steel. As far as new building, there is still there is a strong concentration on the second-hand market, so the new building orders are rather low. Up to now, there is more or less 10 MRs ordered, and I don't expect these big numbers going ahead. I remember that the shipowners today are suffering not only because of the market, but also for technology because we do not know yet what is going to be in the future. The first appointment that we have is 2030, so it's nine years far ahead. Nine years are nothing in the life of a ship. We cannot get there without knowing what is the technology market. needed by IMO. So this is constraining the new building orders. So the fundamentals are there. I have to say that basically we are in the hands of the vaccination programs around. There is a big expectation once the world will get not totally vaccinated, but at least at 70%. So we expect a strong consumption level. I would say from a general view, I mean, it's not only my opinion, the second half of the year should be by far better than the first half. So the market will be back to us again. Saying that, I think that's it. I mean, also on the

on the market session. Thank you.

Just one quick look now at our NAV. We always end with this slide, the evolution of our net asset value. Not surprisingly, it has declined since September 2020. I would say that it's important to highlight that we are trading at still a very deep discount to our NAV at around 40%. if we take into account the share price as at the end of December. And therefore, there is a significant value there because asset prices, as we have shown in the presentation, they are at historically low levels. They have decreased during the course of the second half of 2020. and there is a very strong potential for a bounce back in these values once the freight rates period rates start rising as demand and supply of oil increase with the economic recovery which will We expect, of course, to occur during the course of the year and next year. And so we will have a double benefit, as we mentioned already in the past, which will be both that of an increasing NAV and that of a contraction in this discount to NAV. And as we also have highlighted in the past already, we do trade usually at a discount to NAV, but this discount does vary very much. And we have here, we only look at year-end figures. For example, at the end of December, we worked a discount of 5% to our NAV only, and there were some brief periods where we were actually at the premium to NAV. And if you look today at, for example, dry bulk vessels, the dry bulk listed companies, they are trading actually at the premium to NAV because the market has rebounded very strongly and asset values still haven't responded to the same extent. But of course, there's an expectation that they will rise. And therefore, the shares of the driver companies, several of them are at a small premium to NAV. So I would say that is all for today. Thank you. And I pass it over to you for any questions you might have.

Excuse me, this is the Coruscant conference operator. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. To remove yourself from the question queue, please press star and two. We kindly ask to use handsets when asking questions. Anyone who has a question may press star and one at this time. The first question is from Matteo Bonizzoni of Kepler. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon. I have some questions. The first one is regarding decoupling, which we are seeing between the rates on the product tankers that I think remain currently depressed around $10,000 per day or below. In that range and the rates for the dry bulk that have skyrocketed, driven probably by the cyclical recovery, particularly China and so on. You have said that you expect, you believe that the rates for the product tankers have bottomed or are bottoming. Do you have any particular expectations for the pattern? We know that it's very difficult to predict what will happen, but in your view, what could be the pattern over the next quarter for the rates of the product tankers? The second question is more on the long-term outlook, because in this world, everybody is speaking about energy transition. Energy transition is happening, actually. And then the speed, we will see what will be. But it's a fact that there is a push for decarbonization and energy transition. According to projection, the peak on oil consumption is not around the corner, but there will be a near future in which oil consumption and also the consumption of refined products will start to structurally decline and will be probably a long-term trend. So what is your view on the future, on the mid-long-term future for product anchors in this environment? And the last question is as regards fleet disposal. 2020 was quite intense year on fleet disposal. We have now a launch value of 65.9%. You also say that you expect that the fleet erosion, fleet asset value erosion should also stop after this quite significant erosion, which we have seen particularly in the second half of the last year. Do you expect to implement more disposal, or is it over? Thanks.

Okay, I think I've picked it up. Certainly. What's happening in dry is totally China-driven. China is buying anything. Thanks God. The dry side of our industry is running very well, but there is not really an immediate correlation between product tankers and dry bulk because the final client of the product tanker industry is wider, let's say, than than the dry bulk one. As I said, yes, I feel that rates are bottoming. We are doing this not because we are better or worse, but we are doing better than crude. As a matter of fact, one of the competitions we are suffering sometimes are crude new building ships moving unclean and This is due to the fact that maybe the product market is more flexible than crude because crude comes from A to B, from the oil well to the refinery and is a very fixed route. Either is looking at the LCC, is Persian Gulf China or Persian Gulf US Gulf or Persian Gulf North Europe. The products, they are coming from various refineries, and the demand is created by arbitration on price of the various products. And this can create quite substantial ton mines. For instance, today, California is mostly supplied from Korea, so you have a full Pacific Ocean in between. But this is, again, is due to a price gain more than anything else. So, yes, I feel the bottom is where we are. And also because, let's face it, as I said, the secret here is how fast we are going to be all vaccinated. And already in the United States, which is ahead of us in Europe, you see that gasoline consumption is already going up. So we believe that a driving season is going to be there. Plus, there is the thing that people are compressed after more than a year of being closing and in lockdowns, in various lockdowns. There is a sentiment of freedom, let's call it. I would say the immediate market is going to be better. Now, how better is going to be, this is really something I can say. Talking about decarbonization, which is the big challenge of the industry, and talking also about oil consumption in the future. The first thing I have to say that our fleet will be steaming around for let's say the remaining part of this period of oil consumption, because I don't think that the world will be moved to renewables at 100% in a matter of 15, 20 years. Totally. I mean, it will be a gradual thing. So clean products will be there for quite a while. On top of that, I remember that we are not carrying only petroleum products, but we are carrying also biofuels, for instance, which are the product which will be sitting in between the fossil fuels and the renewable energy. So biofuel will be increasing in the future and you have to move it. So there is another space for us. I would say that looking ahead for the next 20 years, I think demand for us is still there and I don't feel challenged by this. We are very cautious of thinking of new building and this is one of the reasons why ship owners are not building all these ships now. We will see what is going to happen. I remember you that we have to face the change of fuels on our ships, but we still do not know in what sort of fuel we will end up. We are still in the middle of a sort of no idea of what is going to happen on the medium term. So I do not know. As far as disposal of shirts, we are very opportunistic. So let's see values where we go. We don't need to sell as a basic point. And let's see where asset values are going to be. And if it makes sense, we are going to keep selling the older one. Certainly, we are going to dispose of the older one at a certain point. Is it going to happen this year? I don't know. I hope I gave a good answer.

Thank you. Thank you.

The next question is from Massimo Bonisoli of Equita. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my question. A couple of questions from me. One is on the very low spot freight rates over the beginning of 2021. It is quite scary looking at the Clarkson prices there, but I would like to know and to understand if your realized price on the spot market over January and February are different to what we see on Clarkson and maybe your realized price on spot are higher. The second question is regarding the stop in Texas because of the freezing temperatures there. A few number of refineries were stopped there and I would have expected a more positive impact on spot trade rates because of the of the very important level of production from the refinery there. If you can give us a call on the market development following that stoppage and what happened there.

Carlos, you answer or me?

Yeah, no, I would like to follow. Of course, yes. I believe that it is not surprising, I would say, that rates are as low as they are today. I'm actually surprised that occasionally we have some regional spikes, given the lack of refining activity that we are seeing today in the world. For us, usually a 2-3% change in demand is a big deal. What we saw in the second half of 2020 and the first few months of this year is unprecedented for us. We are talking of refining throughputs in January and February 2021, which are of around 77 million, 76 million barrels per day, relative to 83, 82 at last year, the same months last year. So it is a very sharp decrease of around 5 million barrels relative to last year. It is not surprising at all that that translates into a very weak market. I would say that it is instead a proof of the resilience of this sector, the fact that despite this extremely sharp drop in demand, our rates are actually, and they tend to be better than the ones that you see in Clarkson's, especially when the markets are weak because of triangulations, optimizations that we are able to do. So yes, rates are low, but they are not as low as probably you are seeing in the Clarkson's indices. The opposite usually happens then when you have a spike in the market because then there are some lags. in fixing vessels that may be still employed on older voyages which are less profitable and then don't capture all the upside that you see in the rates that are published by Clarksons and by other providers. As we mentioned, fortunately we have good contract coverage we have good contract coverage in the first quarter. So that definitely helps us. Massimo, I don't know if there was one part of your question.

Yeah, for the freight rate, okay. Just the comment on Texas, if that would have an impact on your freight rate.

Yeah, what happened in the U.S. is that, of course, the U.S. was already operating at very low throughputs, before that happened. So it was a very marginal exporter while historically over the last few years at least it has been a very important exporter of refined products. So rates were already very low in the Atlantic before that happened. There was some surge in imports, so some strengthening on the TC2 rates from the North and Europe to to the U.S. following the event, but the U.S. still had quite ample refined product stocks which it could work through. So what happened was a big drawdown in refined product stocks in the U.S. instead of a big surge in imports. So as we saw at the global level, refined product stocks especially the floating are back to the levels that we had at the end of 19. So all the increase related to the COVID was already reabsorbed. The onshore stocks are still slightly higher, but not too far from the five-year averages. But of course, regionally, you have some big discrepancies. And in the U.S. today, you are for some products already below the five-year averages because of this event that you mentioned.

Just a follow-up, if I may. You were mentioning before the long-term change in eventual technologies to reduce greenhouse gases in the industry. Among the portfolio of technologies that may arise in a few years, which are the most likely, in your opinion? I don't know, ammonia like LNG or hydrogen or whatever.

I think that we have to look at this in two phases. I mean, there's the initial phase, which is that which will allow us to meet the 2030 targets, CO2 reduction targets. which were established by the IMO. And then there's a second phase, which is much more challenging, which will allow us to meet the CO2 reduction target of 2050, where we have to reduce CO2 on a ton-mile basis by 70%, and overall CO2 emissions by 50% relative to 2008. So the existing technologies are not sufficient to allow us to meet these targets of 2050. We have some improvements, for example, which don't require huge capex expenses. Instead, the 2030 targets can be met, for example, by the use of biofuels. which Paolo was referring to before, and which could potentially be transporting. So that mixture of traditional fossil fuels with vegetable oil, with fane, could potentially, with mixtures of 20%, biofuel, 30%, could allow us to meet these targets. especially for the echo vessels, which of course already have substantial benefit relative to the conventional vessel in terms of fuel oil consumption. For the longer-term challenges, it is going to be more complicated, and there's a lot of R&D that has to happen. There's an IMO fund which is being set up. It has to be approved at the next Marine Environment Protection Committee meeting in June this year. And if it is approved and it needs to then be funded, it will be funded through a tax on the Convention of Fuel Oils, probably that the owners would have to pay. And then the research has to happen. Of course, there are already private initiatives, several private initiatives, some sponsored by big shipping groups that have the strong shoulders to do so. But more research, a lot more research needs to happen before a final decision is made and then a big push is made towards the technology, which is deemed the most promising to meet these targets. Today, the front runners, I would say, are hydrogen, which of course is also talked a lot about in other areas as a clean fuel, and it could also be applicable as a fuel for shipping. but probably for the short sea shipping more than for the deep sea shipping. For the deep sea shipping, ammonia looks more competitive. That's because the energy density of ammonia is much higher than that of hydrogen and therefore the storage space on board the vessels for the ammonia, the storage space required is less. Of course, then you need to build also all the infrastructure onshore to be able to supply this. Ammonia is already a product which is traded and supplied because it's an important fertilizer, so it has this advantage. Of course, there are also other challenges linked to the emissions of ammonia which have to be addressed. but which we believe with the right investments can be addressed.

Very clear. Thank you very much.

As a reminder, if you wish to register for a question, please press star and one on your telephone. For any further questions, please press star and one on your telephone. The next question is from Daniele Alibrandi of Stifel. Please go ahead.

Yes, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. I have two. You provided us with interesting hints on what is happening. I understood that a number of refineries basically have shut down in consumer regions like Australia, New Zealand, and Europe, while new export-oriented refineries have been added in China, for example, and the Middle East. So I was wondering if you already are seeing some, I mean, routes being influenced by this kind of trend. And the second question is a little bit more boring, but if you can provide us sort of indication for financial expenses for 2021 so that the 2020 I mean it was down to 40 million so around 30 million or something more can be a good assumption I pick up the first one and I leave the boring one to Carlos certainly we are seeing

a dominant position of the Chinese refining system and of the Middle Eastern one. 75% of the growth in refining capacity is happening in Middle East and Far East. They are refinery of last generation. They are not producing any fuel, non-residual fuel. and so are extremely efficient and they have a very low competitive cost. I would say that China became an exporter more by a mistake than a willingness because they built up the refining capacity thinking of consuming more products than what they do. Middle East instead, no. They came out with the idea of being exporters of products. But anyhow, they are dominating the product market today. And after, I would say second in line after this area is United States, which improved a lot technologically their refining capacity. Overall, I think the loser on medium is going to be Europe, which is the biggest diesel market in the world. But, of course, we have to take into consideration that decarbonization on transportation is going to happen, but here again, it's going to happen over the next 15 years. It's not going to happen tomorrow morning. So, it's something which we have to keep an eye on. but we shouldn't be scared, let's say, immediately now. But what you said is perfectly right. We are seeing this change of trade with more loadings in the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea and more loadings from China going as far as Europe and going as far as the United States as a final destination. I leave to Carlos for the second one.

Yes, Daniele. Yes, I think we should continue seeing the trend that we, of course, of reduction in interest expenses also because LIBOR rates are at very low levels and we are not 100% covered in terms of So we are for fiscal year 21, including our leases, which are at fixed rates. We are around 77% covered. So we do have an exposure to the floating rate. So we would expect to benefit from the very low LIBOR rates. And of course, the fact that we have been reimbursing debt and therefore the interest expenses also follow accordingly. So it's definitely going to be less than the almost 40 million that you saw this year. probably a bit more than the 30 million you mentioned. But I cannot be much more precise than that because in our projections, our assumptions might not be completely aligned with yours in terms of... So I wouldn't have a figure on a steady state basis which I can provide to you which is more precise than that.

Thank you.

The next question is from Matteo Bonizzoni of Klepler. Please go ahead.

Yes, just a quick follow-up. I was seeing that the IFRS 16 liabilities in 2020 declined quite sharply, I think, to 96 million from 122 million in 2019. a 26 million euro decline of IFRS 16 liabilities. Where does it come from and can you provide an indication for the evolution in 2021?

No, look, we cannot provide you an indication for the evolution. Maybe on a separate call we can guide you if you provide us your model. I mean, it's simply the reimbursement of the A lot of these liabilities also arise from time chartered in vessels on time charters which are not necessarily that long. And so one year of reimbursements, one year less of time charters to be capitalized, let's say, makes a big difference to what the liability is. And that is why there is this decrease. and it should continue falling in the same, I would say, very similar rate from the one we saw last year, I mean, in 2020. But to be more precise, we will need to discuss with a model in front of us.

Gentlemen, there are no more questions registered at this time. Back to you for any closing remarks you may have.

uh let me let me thank you for for participating in this call uh it's been a challenge 2020 has been a challenging year and we we really hope that and we think that second half 21 will be the recovery of this pandemic disaster um Thank you and talk to you again at the next Confoco.

Thank you.