Dürr Aktiengesellschaft

Welcome to the DUR conference call for the first quarter of 2026. I will now hand over to Bjorn Hoss, Head of Investor Relations of DUR AG.

Yes, good afternoon ladies and gentlemen and welcome to today's call. My name is Bjorn Hoss and I assume the position as DUR's Head of Investor Relations on April 1st. Many of today's participants probably know me, so only a small introduction of myself. I spent 20 years at the Capital Market, first as a sell-side analyst for automotive and industrials, then I switched into portfolio and asset management at Barber, and in the last six years I worked as Head of Investor Relations and M&A at Bertrand AG. You might have noticed three little changes in today's reporting. First, we tried to streamline the quarterly statement with a reduced number of pages, but with the full-fledged content you need. Second, the reporting package was online at 7 a.m. this morning, just to give you an appropriate amount of time to collect the material. Of course, this will continue. And thirdly, all documents on our website section can be printed again. Of course, we hope that helps you as well. And feedback is, of course, welcome. Anyway, I'm really looking forward to getting in personal touch with all of you soon, and if you wish, already after this call, to discuss more details on Q1. For now, I would like to hand over to our CEO, Jochen Weyra, and to our CFO, Dietmar Heinrich. Jochen will start on page four. Jochen, the mic is yours.

Thank you, Björn, and good afternoon to all participants on the call. The war in the Middle East created a lot of additional political and economic uncertainty. In this challenging environment, Q1 actuals basically met our own expectations. Especially our two large divisions, automotive and woodworking, did relatively well and demonstrated resilience with robust incoming orders and profitability. Our third division, industrial automation, developed heterogeneously, with Shane's balancing business performing well, while DBS automation fell short of expectations, prompting us to develop far-reaching efficiency measures in the automotive business. I'll come back to this topic later on. The book-to-bill ratio was slightly above 1. Sales showed a muted start to the year, but will improve in the further course. On the earnings side, we continued on our improvement path. The EBIT margin before extraordinary is to 4.2%, mainly backed by a good start to the year in automotive. Profitability gains in the service business. successful admin cost cutting, and strongly reduced corporate center expenses for the One Deer Group program. Net profit additionally benefited from an improved financial result and lower extra ordinaries and was up 22%. Free cash flow was clearly positive at 29 million euros supported by further improvement in networking capital. Looking at the sales channel, We expect higher networking capital needs in the next few quarters accompanied by cash outs for tax issues and for the admin adjustments. We are confirming the group outlook for 2026 given in early March. However, the divisional forecast for industrial automation is under review after the muted Q1 at BBS Automation. A quick update on the CFO position. We will announce people's successes soon. There are only a few details to be finalized, but the decision itself has been taken. Next is slide four. The 11% in order intake was partly driven by the low level of new orders in BBS Automation's mobility business. Woodworking's order intake at 370 million euros was above last year's quarterly average. In automotive, we see a solid investment pipeline for the next quarters. There are enough projects out there. The question is rather if they will be awarded within the expected timeframe given the uncertainty in the market. Sales amounted to 940 million euros and were marked by some customer-induced delays in automotive. as well as by the low order intake at the height of the tariff uncertainties in Q2 and Q3 in 2025. However, we foresee higher quarterly sales to come. As I've already explained the drivers for the improvements in earnings and free cash flow, I would like to jump to slide five. The reduction in order intake versus Q4 was expected as Q4 included three very large orders, and was extraordinarily strong. The comparison with Q2 and Q3 2025 shows that the impact of the war in the Middle East on order intake was less severe than the dampening effects arising from the tariff conflicts last year. Our customers seem to have got used to the macro volatility and can cope better with it. Slide six shows the regional split of order intake. I would like to highlight two things here. First, we want several larger orders in China in Q1 against local players, which underlines our competitive edge there. And second, despite low order intake in the Americas in Q1, we see a promising pipeline in the USA as customers are planning more investments there in order to localize and to evade taxes. Slide 7 deals with our Middle East exposure. As mentioned, the direct impact from the Iran conflict on order intake has been limited so far. However, lasting energy price hikes, rising interest rates, and supply chain disruptions could affect our customers' investment behavior. On the other hand, the strain on energy prices underlines the risks our customers are facing when operating their plants with oil and gas. This triggers additional awareness for DURS energy efficient and non-fossil production technologies and their advantages regarding security of supply and efficiency. In April, the Automotive Division organized an amazing virtual trade fair, mainly focusing on innovations for energy efficient and the electrification of plant shops. I was watching the performance together with customers and can assure you they have really been thrilled. In terms of energy and transportation costs, we're not too much worried. Our business is not energy intense and logistics costs are under control. In many cases, there are price escalation clauses in place. Our sales exposure in the Middle East amounts to around 150 million euros, of which more than 80% is attributable to Saudi Arabia. We are currently executing two major projects near Jeddah in the West. So far, there have been no major impediments caused by the conflict. Another topic from the political sphere is that we have requested the refunding of IWEPA tariffs paid as these were declared unlawful by the US courts. However, it's still too early to assess on the outcome. Let's continue with the view on our division starting on page nine. I've already commented on automotive's order intake in Q1 and the solid pipeline with new investment projects. The sales channel indicates higher revenues in the further course of the year, And this should go in line with increasing networking capital needs, which will be mainly reflected in higher contract assets. As you know, there's a seasonal pattern in the division sales and margin development. That's why the 6% in Q1 is a solid start and a good basis for reaching the full-year target of 7% to 8%. Please note that the lithium-ion battery business unit that formerly belonged to the industrial automation business has been part of the automotive division since January 2026. Next is industrial automation on slide 10. The division's two business units performed heterogeneously into one. Change balancing technology achieved significant increases in order intake and earnings. On the other hand, BVS Automation's performance was not satisfactory, which led to decreases in most relevant key figures on a dimensional level. As you know, there's a new management in place at BVS Automation that is tackling the challenges systematically, especially the soft automotive business and improvements in operating business. The first measure has been initiated in early April with the consolidation of BVS Automation's China business at the Kunshan site, whereas the neighboring Suzhou site will be closed. China has already performed solidly, but this step will further improve our business there. We're working on further efficiency measures in other parts of the world and will present them to you in due course. Last but not least, please note that the figures shown for 2026 and 2025 no longer include the lithium-ion battery business that was shifted to automotive and the bench tooling business that has been part of woodworking since the beginning of the year. We know that changing reporting structures causes hassle on your side. However, the new organization is helping to simplify the group structure and to become more efficient, and we do not intend to change anything else for the time being. Page 11 shows that the woodworking division's order intake in Q1 clearly surpassed last year's quarterly average of 352 million euros. While business with the furniture industry remains subdued, the positive trend in timber house production technology continues. Sales were affected by the muted order intake following the tariff conflict in Q2 and Q3 2025, but should gain traction in the further course of the year. The margin was impacted by the sales reduction, higher R&D spending, and initial one-offs for an ERP transition, but should also increase looking down the road. The important optimization measure is the ramp-up of Womack's new factory in Poland later this year, that will generate further efficiency gains from 2027 on. A quick view on the service business on slide 12. While the service share of group revenue was stable, the gross margin developed nicely on the back of higher spare parts portion. The continuous development of the service business has always been high on our agenda, as it balances out the volatility of new equipment orders. Consequently, profitable service growth was included in this year's SDI target for the management board and the entire executive team. I'm now pleased to hand over to Dietmar, who will take you through the financials.

Thank you, Jochen.

Ladies and gentlemen, a warm welcome from my side as well. As Stage 4 team basically presents, I would just like to point out two developments. Despite lower sales, the gross margin rose by 60 base points in Q1. This was driven by improved utilization at HOMAG after the preceding capacity cuts, as well as by higher service margins and reduced D&A. On the added level, we additionally benefited from a reduction of the admin cost share of sales reflecting our adjustments in the administrative sector and lower expenses for the volunteer group program that was completed to a vast extent in 2025. Slide 15 contains information on the quarterly and original sales split, which might be helpful for your follow-up analysis. For now, I would like to directly jump to earnings on page 16.

The improved EBIT margin before extraordinary effect benefited from the better cost margin as well as a 6% reduction of functional costs despite higher R&D expenses.

They reported an improvement by 13% as PPA-related expenses halved to 4.3 million euros, and there were no extraordinary burdens anymore from the sale of environmental technology. Slide 17, please. The higher free cash flow was supported by a further net working capital reduction to 291 million euros. This development seems to come to us with a full year guidance of minus 150 to zero million euros. But please keep in mind the higher net working capital needs in tandem with the sales acceleration we foresee for the next quarters. This is also true for the automotive division that was again able to improve network integrity in Q1. Moreover, the free cash flow performance will be impacted by tax payments related to the sale of environmental technology and the tax claim in Germany that we consider as unjustified and that we will have examined by court. And finally, the payments for the admin restructuring will be due in the course of the year. Page 18 shows where the improvement in net working capital came from. While higher inventories were roughly offset by the more receivables, we saw not much of a change yet in contract assets and prepayments, but benefited from a further increase in prepayments that are included in contract liabilities. Given the foreseeable sales channel and the fact that more large projects will enter the construction phase, we expect contract assets to rise Next is slide 19. The positive free cash flow caused a further decline in net size, which led to 47 million euros. Total liquidity, including cash on hand and terms represented, is still at a high level, but was down almost 150 million euros due to the repayment of our convertible in January, which is also reflected in the lower level of cost debt. will be fueled into auto execution, net finance and debt will increase during the next quarters, but remain well under control. Larger acquisitions are not planned for this year, as our focus is on increasing efficiency in existing business, especially in TBS automation. Slide 20 shows that we are well positioned for the current phase of political and economic uncertainty with ample available funds. After having a weekday deconvertible in January, we paid off a 100 million Euro Schulzstein in April. This Schulzstein maturity is still shown in the diagram reflecting the status on March 31st, but from today's perspective, there are no maturities left in 2026.

Ladies and gentlemen, thanks for listening. I now hand back to you for the outlook section, starting on page 22.

Thank you, Dietmar. We are confirming the group's outlook given on March 5. With the margin improvement in Q1, we laid the foundation for an increase also in the full year. The main drivers for the targeted margin expansion are further earnings potential at woodworking, cost savings in the admin sector, as well as the reduction of one-to-a-group expenses and of the losses in the lithium iron battery business. For sales, we are expecting higher dynamics in the quarters to come based on the sales channel and the project mix in automotive. With regards to order intake, we see a better pipeline in automotive than last year. But please keep in mind that the timing of contract awards is difficult to predict given the high degree of macro uncertainty. Next is page 23. We're also confirming the outlook for the automotive and woodworking divisions while the guidance for industrial automation is under review after the muted development of PBS automation in Q1. If we should decide to adjust the guidance for industrial automation, this would have no effect on the group outlook as we are talking about our smallest division and the shank balancing business within industrial automation performs well. As things stand today, good KPIs develop fully in line with the forecasted guidance corridors. Please also note the information on the small effects from shifting the lithium-ion battery and then tooling business to automotive and woodworking, respectively. Ladies and gentlemen, please find the summary on slide 24. Q1 basically met our expectations. We had a solid start to the year in terms of order intake, earnings, and cash flow. Despite macro headwinds, we continued on our profit-oriented course by improving the EBIT margin before extraordinary end, even more clearly, net profit. These improvements are largely based on the successful execution of cell panel measures that we have been implementing continuously, such as the fixed cost reductions in administration, in the lithium ion battery business and at HOMAG. The resilient performance of the automotive and woodworking divisions testify the effectiveness of our self-help measures. Both divisions are in good shape and well prepared for both to cope with macro challenges and to benefit from a market recovery. With regard to industrial automation, you can expect us to take determined action in order to lift the division to the same level of resilience and operating strengths as automotive and woodworking. This, more precisely, applies to BBS automation, while Schenck's balancing business is stable and performs at high margins. BBS automation is the next unit within our own portfolio that will be systematically optimized. We already started in China and will be extending our measures. Moreover, we put full focus on accelerating order intake sales and earnings in the forthcoming quarters. We are confident that Dürer will reach its full year guidance despite the challenging environment. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our presentation. Dietmar and I are now happy to answer your questions.

Thank you very much. Dear ladies and gentlemen, Please press 9 and the star key on your telephone keypad to ask a question. I repeat, the combination is 9 star. If you wish to cancel your question again, please press 3 and then the star key. But for now, we are looking forward to your questions. Please press 9 star. The questions are already . The first one is from . Please . Hello. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my questions. I would have three. The first one is on Hallmark. Having booked now 370 million of orders in Hallmark in Q1, how do you think about H2 in this division in light of your guidance? Will this support the lower or rather the upper end of the revenue range? The second question is on your battery business. If I remember correctly, you mentioned in your last conference call that it's roughly 70 basis points of a dilution on margins. Is it the same magnitude in Q1 or was it higher or lower? And the third question is thinking about the full year now. How should we think about profitability in the next quarters? Are there any seasonalities or bigger projects which are executed now if you want to highlight here? Thank you.

Thank you, Nikita. Let's try to answer your questions together. For HOMAG, at this point, we are confident to be well within the guidance. Notes we've only now covered three months of the year, so still hard to say, but at this point, there is no new view on the year than it was when we published the guidance earlier this year. If understood correctly, You write on the battery business, your question was whether there is higher or lower dilution effects over the course of the quarters in the year. Also, looking at DIPMA, I don't see that. I would say you can assume kind of an equal distribution as we're currently also executing a relatively large order that POCs through the year, basically. On special effects in terms of a different seasonality, also here I don't see any specialties as, you know, you've always seen for good or bad. We always have the seasonality, a relatively weak first quarter, and then, you know, performance increases during the course of the year as, you know, project execution. accelerates and there's somewhat also increased activity on the service side as well. Also here, I don't see any special effects to be expected.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Nikita.

Thank you very much from my side. The next question is from Philippe Laurent, dancing. Please, the photo. Can you hear us? Hello?

Yeah. Do you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. Yes, now we do. Perfect. Thank you. And thanks for taking the question. So the first one would be on automotive. So in the slide pack, you mentioned customer-in-use project delays, which are on sales. Could you shed some more light here?

Mm-hmm.

What lies should we? Look, we have a number, as you know, we have a pretty solid backlog. And what we're seeing is for some of the projects, especially, let me try to mentally allocate them. There's somewhat few things in Europe. a bit of Middle East, a little bit of North America, and I think that would roughly do the mix, if that helps.

Okay, that's good on the geography, but I was meaning, like, what are, do you know what are the reasons behind that, whether that's just consciousness from the clients, or whether that's other suppliers, etc.? ?

Yeah, the reasons mainly are, in a few cases, are approvals, as well as some customers who have modified, for example, layouts at a late stage, and we have to adapt engineering, so things like that.

Okay, so more technical delays than basically sentiment shifting delays or whatever. Oh, absolutely, yes. Okay, perfect. Then the second question I had was on the refund that you are seeking in the U.S. Could you quantify that? And as well, I guess the guidance doesn't really reflect, for instance, that exceptional income because timing is very uncertain?

Yeah. It is, I would say, a lower double-digit number. And you always have to keep in mind that we cannot fully assume that this money, if it is ever paid, will end up on our P&L completely because some of this would be money theoretically also belonging to our customers. So it's because we have a mix of, you know, who's paid the taxes, etc., So that would be the answer to that. And, of course, timing, you know, we don't know.

Okay. So it's not in the guidance.

No, no, no. It's not in the guidance.

Okay. And the third question would be on the ERP transition at HOMAG. You pencil in something like 10 million of one-off costs that are basically part of the adjusted EBIT or impacting the adjusted EBIT for this year. Can you quantify as well the impact that you had maybe on Q1 and what we should expect on a sequential basis to put that a little bit better in our spreadsheet for OMACs?

Definitely. Basically, in the first quarter, there was a very limited impact of a couple of hundred thousand of euros. The full year impact, together with the relocation in Poland, is about pretty close to 10 million euros. The project, in regards to ERP, stretches over two years. Then, when I filmed the beginning of 2020, we expect total project costs of around 10 to max 15 million euros.

10 to 15, sorry. Is that correct? 10 to 15, yes. So 10 to 15. Okay. And for the 10 million that you've for this year, you say that it's basically more like H2 or should we expect like a bigger impact already on H2 after you had, yeah, clearly not much in Q1?

I think it's basically stretched over the quarters and then go live in the first quarter of 2028. So now the eight quarters that are basically by this are starting with Q2. And the other impact was the start of the production in the new plant in Poland. They are currently transferring production. That's done now in May, basically, and then will be the subsequent.

Okay. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Philip.

Thank you. The next question is from Adrienne or DDRBHF. Please, over to you.

Yes, hi. Good afternoon, everybody, so thanks for taking my questions. Actually, on the automotive pipeline, I was just wondering, If you could give a little bit more of color on what kind of projects are around there in the funnel. I mean, I'm referring to because you said year-end, for example, last year we'll see a couple of larger contracts and you saw a higher probability to actually strike those deals. I was just wondering what kind of project funnel is out there and probably in which And then on the order intake that you booked in the first quarter, should we assume that you have had the opportunity to increase your pricing a bit in light of increasing input costs or how is the general pricing environment there? The third one is on HOMAC again. I mean, you said as an answer to a question before that you don't have a new view on what's going on on the order intake side there. But I was just wondering if there are any signs of, you know, increased activity from your clients on quotes or, you know, any kind of pre-indicators that at some point we will reach a turning point point on the furniture side this year. That's it from my side. Thank you.

Thank you, Adrian, for your questions on the auto pipeline. In terms of the regions, we see more or less the same trend continuing for the remainder of the year, that there would be more orders coming from outside Germany, if not outside Europe. more Asia, more North America, which doesn't rule out that there's also pipeline in Europe. So, yeah, more towards more well-balanced with maybe a focus on Asia and North America. Regarding the pricing in automotive, Honestly, we don't see real effects yet, probably, on the supply chain side, on the terms of the pricing. So there is not, of course, we always want to negotiate the best prices that we can. And I think we've proven quite well that we've been successful in the future. But there is not an extra need, if you will, from the supply chain. We don't know what's going to happen the second half of the year. Potentially, some of what's happening now will create the effect only later this year. But so far on our supply chain side, we don't really have constraints or any increased pricing in a significant way. On HOMAG, Now, unfortunately, I cannot predict the turning point. You know, we run at the low level currently from quarter to quarter. We had a very solid construction elements business last year as we had reported. Let's see how that continues, but on the furniture side from today's perspective, hopefully, We can be a bit more optimistic later this year and give some ideas. But at this point, nothing has changed to a quarter ago.

Two quick follow-ups on my question. First of all, on the construction side of things, you don't see any signs of weakening on that business. And secondly, on the automotive funnel again, what does it do to your margin profile if you sell more or get more orders from the US and Asia? Is there any difference or does it depend on what kind of project it is and just to get a sense on do we talk about when we speak about the funnel here about let's say, I don't know, just putting numbers to a handful of triple digit million projects or is it kind of more upgrade projects or how should we see it?

Thank you. In terms of the construction elements business, as we had said, Last year was a record year. We've done more than $200 million on the construction element side, the wooden houses side. Let's see how this year continues, whether, you know, we get close to that number or whatever. But so far, the first quarter has been relatively solid also in that respect. You auto funnel the margins. Now, there's not so much correlation necessarily by region. It really depends on the nature of the products more than that. How are the projects that we see? There is a few bigger ones out there. We've also booked quite nice orders in the first quarter, which you had seen. on the auto side, I would say it's rather mixed. I don't expect the, you know, high, high triple-digit number of projects this year, so more, yes, of course, triple-digit is part of it, but more also the mid-sized projects and some really also upgrades. All right. That's been helpful. Thank you. Thank you very much, Adrian.

The next question goes to Roger Schmidt, DZ Bank, EG.

Hi, good afternoon, everyone. I have a question on your R&D spending. I think it's up almost 50% as compared to last year. What's behind that? What kind of innovations can we expect going forward?

And if there's more one-time effect, or how should we think about the future run rate for your R&D spending? That's the first question.

On the other side, especially on the woodworking side, we already talked about ERP change. In that regard, we have to work on the CAD designs as well, and that's causing additional effort.

So that's why we have more spending, especially on the woodworking side in that regard.

Okay, understood. And then a question on your service business.

I mean, it's on par in relation to revenues, about 28% of total revenues comes from the service business, but it's down in absolute terms, so it's down by about 6% versus last year. Is there anything specific to read into that, or is it just lower utilization of the installed base at your customer side, or how should we think about the future trajectory of the service business? Yeah, thank you, Holger. I take that one. You know, our service business consists of spare parts, some services, which is man hours, and then also, you know, smaller rebuild projects. On the spare part side, that's also the reason why the margin has developed quite well. We don't see a shortfall. What we had a little less in the first quarter than, you know, compared to the average of last year, and also different to what we expect, we really expect to pick up, is on those smaller brownfield projects. And we expect those to kick in a bit more in the course of the year than this was in the first quarter, and that will accelerate the volume on the spare parts side itself. we don't see really much of a change compared to last year. Maybe a follow-up to this spare part situation here. Are you able to force the price increases year by year for the spare part? Because that would mean that the volume has been down also the spare part business. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we increase spare parts prices absolutely every year. Sometimes even twice a year because there is fixed spare parts lists and the prices accordingly. And we announce that to our customers and, you know, some of them we also negotiate. Some of them are given. But, yes, there's always spare part price increases of a few percent every year. Okay, good. So my last question is on the device. as compared to the first quarter. What has changed since the 1st of April? So, we're doing the Q2 call already today. Oh, sure. We don't see any significant effects in any way. So, as you said, our expectation, of course, is to accelerate somewhat in the second quarter. as we typically do with the seasonality given, and I don't see anything different this year than, you know, we had, for example, also last year. At this point, I don't see surprises on the operational side.

Good to know. Thank you very much.

Thank you. The next question is from .

Yes, hello. Thanks for having me. A couple of questions from my side. First of all, what are your thoughts about Daifuku acquiring Eisenman? Do you expect that this could have, yeah, an impact on the competitive landscape in the midterm? Secondly, coming to the industrial automation business or BDS in particular, taking the last 12 months or four quarters, you've had roughly 570 million order intake for the division as a whole, which looks quite soft. So is this the result of a soft market? Is this the result of a wrong portfolio or a wrong go-to-market approach? So is it more or less a top-line issue? And you mentioned strategic repositioning also in your presentation. Or is it an OPEX issue? And should we expect some, yeah, right-sizing measures down the road and also costs for right-sizing? And lastly, income from investment has gone up in Q1. It was above the level of the preceding quarters. Actually, is this a reflection of your new 25% stake in your former environmental technologies activities? Thank you.

Thank you, Christian. On , of course, we're always watching when there is, you know, at our competitors, and obviously Daifuku is a relatively large company, not really much involved in that type of business yet. Might give financial strength, but also, you know, when you look at Eisenman, Eisenman is not the one that you're probably used to like four, five years ago. It's a part of it. And let's see. I mean, if you are an automotive, and I've been in automotive basically all my life, your customers always are very active in making sure that there is enough competition. And so we're used to it. And whether it is Eisenmann today or any other company tomorrow, we have to be competitive and we have to differentiate on the innovation side, which I think we do. and let's see what it leads to. So we're watching it. We're not concerned in a humble, I mean, not being in an arrogant way, but we do what we do, and we watch the competitive environment and see what's happening. On BDS, as we had already stated in our comments earlier, On the one hand, yes, on the automotive side, especially the mobility side, as we can all see, the market has come down significantly, which we also see in our bookings. On the other hand, having said that, the way we've built the group, we've In a difficult market environment, we even got orders that the companies on a standalone basis would have never received in automotive, but especially on the MedTech side. And we have started a program. We have consolidated the locations in China, and we will further work on efficiency measures which we will talk about more once they are precise. And there might be some one-off costs, or there will be some one-off costs associated to that. In terms of, you know, our own positioning, we will sharpen our go-to market, and we will make more benefit further integrating the activities in the group, but the current challenge on the order intake side is driven by the market. On the interest side?

Yeah, regarding the investment that is not related to the environmental technology but coming from another company that we are accounting .

Okay, thank you.

Thank you very much. Dear ladies and gentlemen, just a little reminder, if you would like to ask a question or a follow-up question, please press 9 star on your telephone keypad. Thank you. Next question is from Sven Weyer, UBS.

Please, sir, it's you. Yeah, good afternoon, also from my side. Two questions, please. The first one is, on e-mobility-related order, because if I understood you correctly, the weakness on NBBS that's behind it. I was just wondering, on the automotive side, is there a more favorable situation with regard to e-mobility OEMs, or do you see the same kind of weakness also on automotive? That's the first one.

Thank you, Sven. In automotive, we have, I'm just reflecting what orders we're executing right now. We see more activities actually on at least facilities that produce hybrid cars. Having said that, there is still, I mean, we're currently still executing two orders in Saudi Arabia, which are purely immobility. We've awarded them quite a while ago. We've also finished or almost finished a big rebuild in the U.S. for an e-mobility customer. There is still a few projects for some of the customers that are purely e-mobility customers, mostly extensions. So we see the trend more again to internal combustion engine or hybrid facilities if they are purely internal combustion engine hybrid, because more and more of our customers have the capability to produce, you know, all three approaches, internal combustion hybrid and battery electric in one facility. So we see somewhat activity still there. But if you go back two or three years ago when most of the projects were immobility driven, that has changed.

And though there's also no specific relation between, you know, maybe DBS meeting the orders of automotive or the other way around. That's kind of not connected.

Of course, we're using our sales network around the world also, you know, for everything that we do, of course. And BVS automotive activities are at least from a, you know, exchange point of view, getting support from automotive. We have a strong network around the world, but it's a separate setup.

Very clear, thank you. The other question I have was just when you look at the project pipeline on automotive, you said it's quite, you know, mixed between large, small and mid-sized orders. I mean, how do you see pricing at the moment? You're happy with pricing on the orders or is there more pressure because of the environment?

No, I don't see much of a change at this point. You know, we're typically, we always work in this arena between cost and price as our projects are typically calculated on a gross margin basis simply, you know, as those projects are always only to an extent comparable to each other's. What we don't see is an erosion on the gross margin side. Partially also driven, of course, by constant cost reductions also on the product side.

I understand. Thank you very much.

Pleasure.

Thank you very much, dear ladies and gentlemen. At the moment, there are no further questions in the queue, so last call, please press 9 star now if you would like to ask a question. We will wait a couple more moments. Let's assume no more questions for the incoming. Thank you very much, dear ladies and gentlemen. With that, we're closing the Q&A session, and I hand the floor back over to the host.

Thank you very much to all of you. And if you have further or additional follow-up questions, please don't hesitate to call Matthias or myself. And otherwise, I will be looking forward to seeing all of you soon. Thank you very much. Bye. Bye-bye.