Finecobank Banca Fine Spa

Good afternoon. This is the Corusco Conference Operator. Welcome and thank you for joining the Fineco Bank first half 2021 results conference call. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Alessandro Foti, CEO of Fineco. Please go ahead, sir.

Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining our second quarter results conference call. Before we start going through the details of the presentation, let me please underline that last quarter once again confirmed our new dimension of structural growth. We are progressively delivering on two strategic discontinuities that we anticipated during the first quarter confidence call in order to progressively become more a platform fulfilling the financial needs of our clients than a bank. First, we are carrying on our initiatives in order to leverage our balance sheet, which will in turn progressively increase and improve our revenues, mix boosting fees and commissions. Of course, the mix of net sales during the summer months might show an increase in deposits compared to the recent months, but this effect is only temporary and just linked to the seasonality. Therefore, we expect to reabsorb hit thanks to our increasing effectiveness in transforming liquidity into asset under management. Second, FinEQ asset management is already delivering in its strategic discontinuity and is taking more control of the value chain to further accelerate our investing revenues and margins. The outcomes of our strategic discontinuities will be a structurally higher profitability thanks to the jump of investing revenues and the capital light business model thanks to the leveraging as we will have structurally higher room to dispose of it. This will allow us to distribute a higher level of dividends and at the same time to invest more for our growth. Let me highlight that also in the first half of the year, we recorded a record high growth net profit reaching $185 million and increasing by 2% year-on-year despite the contribution to systemic charges in the year due to the single resolution fund paid for the first time in 2021. This result is even more valuable considering that it has been achieved in a new normal world and beats the previous record set in the first half of 2020. which was characterized both by low operating costs due to the strict lockdown in place in Italy and by the strong performance of brokerage due to volatility peak. Revenues stood at 403 million, increasing by 3% year-on-year, excluding non-recurring items of 2020 and mainly supported by the growth of investing, thanks to the growth in asset under management and the operational efficiency by FinEco asset management. Brokerage confirmed a structurally higher floor, also in an environment characterized by a much lower volatility compared to 2020. Operating costs were well under control and the cost-income ratio stood at 31.3%. confirming operating leverage as a key strength of the bank. Our capital position confirmed to be strong and safe with a common equity TR1 ratio at 18.6%. Let me please underline that after the decision by European Central Bank not to extend beyond September 2021 the dividend band and following the dialogue with the supervisory authorities, the board of directors has proposed to distribute a dividend for 2019 and 2020 equal to 0.53 euros at the next shareholders meeting on October 21st, 2021. Also, our commercial activity continued to strengthen compared to the impressive growth experience in 2020. After the record net sales registered in the first half, estimated figures for the month of July are around $900 million, increasing by about 34% compared to July 2020. The mix confirmed to be strong, with about $0.5 billion in asset under management and almost $360 million of deposits due to the summer seasonality. As already said, we expect to absorb this temporary increase in liquidity going forward, also thanks to the pipeline of new initiatives that we are delivering. Brokerage revenues are estimated for July at around $15 million. This is very good news considering the unfavorable market conditions due to both low volatility below the average level of 2017-2019 and low volumes. Nevertheless, revenues are around 30% higher compared to the average monthly revenues in the same period, confirming once again that the floor of the business is now definitely higher. Let's now move on to slide five. Before we start going through the details of the presentation, let me please underline that in order to give a better representation of investing fees, and in line with prevailing market practice. In the quarter, we went through a recast of some items related to our investing business, previously accounted in other lines. In this slide, you can find all the details. In particular, we included within the net commissions cost efficiencies achieved by Finnecoset management, previously accounted under other income line, Second, the costs related to the network of financial planners, like recruiting, loyalty, FIR, and ASARCO, previously accounted under other administrative expenses. On top of this, financial planners incentives that were previously accounted into other product areas had been recasted into investing fees. following the change of the financial planners incentive scheme. Please let me add that in the past, we had to apply the accounting rules in line with our previous parent company, which were not taking into account the features of our business model. Therefore, in the past, we structurally overestimated our cost income ratio. And this representation now better reflects our real operating leverage as an asset gatherer. Let's now move on to slide six. As announced, we reached very strong industrial results, also in a new normal world. We've adjusted net profit standing at 184.6 million in the first half, plus 2% year-on-year on a like-for-like basis despite the higher contribution for systemic charges. Among the adjustments of the quarter, let me underline that we have recorded a $32 million one-off fiscal benefit related to the realignment of intangible assets under the Legislative Decree 104-2020. Revenue stood at 403.5 million, up 3% year-on-year, as we have been able to catch the strong acceleration of the structural trends in place, mainly thanks to the contribution of investing. Operating costs stood at 126.1 million, increasing by 4.7% year-on-year, excluding costs strictly related to the growth of the business. We will deep dive on cost later on during the presentation. Cost income confirmed to be very low at 31.3%, despite the continuous expansion in assets and clients, thanks to our strong operating leverage and to the scalability of our platform. Let's now move on slide seven and start to analyze more in details the dynamics of our results. In this slide, we show our net financial income amounting to $148 million and remaining flat in the first half of the year. Net interest income stood at $124.3 million, despite the worsening of interest rates environment. And profit from Treasury management stood at $23.6 million. the more we will be effective in leveraging the balance sheet and the more we will be able to slow down and possibly even reverse the growth of our financial investments. This will lead to recurring industrially driven profits from treasury management and progressively improve revenues mixed with a higher component of fees and commissions. We will come back later on on our initiatives related to the the leverage of the balance sheet, some of which are about to enter in action, like the third-party savings account platform.

Let's now move on to slide eight.

Fees and commissions stood at $214.3 million in the first half of 2021, growing by 10.2% here on year, mainly thanks to the positive contribution of investing. Brokerage, net of commissions and trading profit confirmed once again a floor structurally higher compared to the past, despite the unfavorable market conditions in terms of volatility and volumes, compared to both the first half 2020 and the first quarter 2021.

Let's jump on slide 26 to deep dive on our brokerage business.

Brokerage confirmed once again that after the recent events, the floor of the business is structurally higher compared to the past, regardless of the level of volatility. As you can see in the chart on the top of the slide, in the second quarter of 2021, overall brokerage revenues reached $49.4 million in a period characterized by low volatility and volumes resulting nevertheless in a monthly average 46% higher compared to the average monthly revenues in the period 2017-2019. In the month of July, estimated brokerage revenues were equal to $15 million, around 30% higher compared to the average monthly revenues in the period 2017-2019 and with a volatility that was lower than the average volatility of the same period. Let me remind you that the growth of the brokerage business is driven by the contribution of three structural components. First, the deep reshape of our brokerage business. Let me remind you that we have recently launched a new US options platform and that we have now entered in the authorization phase for our leveraged certificates offer. On top of this, we are starting the study phase of the investment certificates. Second, the client base using our platform is widening with active investors that have grown significantly in absolute numbers. standing more than 40% above the average level of 2018-2013. Please note that our active investors have an average of four executed orders per month, are wealthy people in their 50s with assets above 200,000 euros on average. and the vast majority of them have a relationship with our financial advisors for the long-term planning of their financial wealth. Third, we are continuously increasing our retail market share. Let's now move on to slide 9 for a focus on investing. Let me remind you that over the last few months, we have experienced a strong acceleration towards asset under management, as we have been able to catch the structural trends in place in Italy. The acceleration of the investing business is expected also going forward as we are progressively going through the strategic discontinuity in FinEco asset management that will allow us to improve the efficiency of the value chain, generating higher revenues and margins. Investing revenues amounted to 122.2 million in the first half of 2021, increasing by 22.7% year-on-year thanks to the volume effect and strong net sales into asset under management, driven by higher contribution by Finneco Asset Management. More in detail, management fees increased by 25% year-on-year in the first half of the year, while in the second quarter 2021 increased by 33.1% year-on-year and by Let me please highlight that management fees margins after tax are slightly increasing to 46 basis points showing a first signal of higher risk appetite by clients. Let's now move on to slide 10 for a focus on our cost. confirms once again efficiency to be part of our DNA and core in our bank, representing a clear and unique competitive advantage. Let me please underline that the first half of the year was characterized by costs directly related to the strong acceleration of our growth dynamics in the new normal world. On top of this, the yearly comparison is affected by the strict lockdown the first half of 2020, driving non-HR costs lower compared to the average level of the period 2010-2019. Rating costs in the first half of 2021 stood at $126.1 million, growing by 4.7% year-on-year, excluding costs related to the growth of the business, mainly additional $1.7 million in marketing costs, mainly in the UK, and not fully in place in the same period of 2020. Additional $1.4 million cost for FinEco asset management that is preparing itself for further expand its business, allowing us to have a higher control of the investing value chain. Going into the details, non-HR costs stood at $73.2 million, Excluding the previously mentioned expenses related to the growth of the business, they only grew by 4% here and here, confirming our strong operating leverage. Finally, staff expenses stood at $52.9 million in the same period, increasing by 5.6% on a yearly basis, net of costs related to the expansion of the business of Finicasset Management. Let's now move on slide 13 for a focus on our capital ratios. Finicor confirmed once again a rock solid capital position on the wave of a safe balance sheet. Let me please underline that after the decision by European Central Bank not to extend beyond September 2021 the dividend ban and following the dialogue with the supervisory authorities Our Board of Directors has proposed to distribute the dividend for 2019 and 2020 equal to 0.53 euros at the next shareholders meeting on October 21, 2021. Common equity tier 1 ratios stood at 18.59%, including the 2019-2020 dividend proposal. and this is mainly explaining the quarterly decrease. Leverage ratio stood at 4.03%, including the dividend proposal, which also in this case explains the quarterly decrease. Let me please add, in line with the optionality allowed by ECB and Bank of Italy, starting from June 2021, we temporarily excluded exposures towards the central banks from the total exposures. Without this exclusion, our leverage ratio would be at 3.81%. Risk-weighted assets stood at 4.431 billion, and the total capital ratio stood at 87% as of June 2021, including dividend proposal. Let's now move on slide 15. As you know, 2021 has made it even clearer that FinEQ is in the sweet spot for growth. In the first half of 2021, the bank has been able to deliver even stronger net sales, reaching $5.8 billion with a very strong asset mix. were only the latest confirmation of this big jump in a new dimension of growth. Let me spend a few words on the recruiting. As you can see on slide 16, starting from last year, we have experienced a strong increase in the interest of financial advisors to join our bank, thanks to our business model, which proved to be the best position to grow. the new landscape, also thanks to our unique FinTech DNA. To this regard, please note that we have no need to overpay financial advisors with huge upfront fees and use the aggressive approach historically taken by the industry. As a matter of fact, in the new environment, FinEco emerged more clearly as the perfect bank for professionals looking to grow their home business in a sustainable way. Those dynamics were confirmed in the first half of the year, resulting in a net increase of 125 professional advisors in our network, as we recruited 68 senior professionals and 102 junior, with net sales generated organically by the bank at 86% in the first half of the year, at a much normal level. Let's now skip to slide 21 and start discussing about our expectations for the business going forward. This slide will summarize our guidance. With regards to our banking revenues, we expect our net financial income to stabilize in 2021 and 2022 at the levels of 2020. Thanks to the leveraging of the balance sheet, and to the new initiatives in place. For example, on our tax credit activity, which has a ready start to give and contribution in the first half of 2021, we target the potential volume in a range between 1.5 and 2 billions. Overall banking fees in the region between 40 and 45 millions in 2021. Going forward, they are expected to grow thanks to the increase on our client base and to repricing actions. On investing, given the strong growth experience of the last few months, driven both by the acceleration in underlying trends and by the first effects of the strategic discontinuity produced by FAMP, we are again increasing our 2021 guidance to revenues growing in the range between 20% and 25% with resilient or slightly higher margins compared to 2020. Going forward, we expect a strong acceleration of revenues and margins thanks to, first, a further increase in our network productivity leading to higher volumes as we expect asset under management net sales at around $6 billion per year. Second, the implementation of the strategic discontinuity in FinEco asset management, which is going to increase its penetration in FinEco stock of asset under management, with retail net sales expected at around $6 billion per year. This will result in an increase of banks' management fees margins after tax up to around 55 basis points and pre-tax margins up to around 75 basis points by 2024. Brokerage revenues are expected to remain strong with a floor in relative terms with respect to volatility that is definitely higher than in the past. Operating costs are expected to grow in the range between 4.5% and 5% year-on-year Please note that there might be additional costs related to Finic Asset Management as we are introducing the previously mentioned strategic discontinuity to improve the efficiency of the value chain in the investing business. Going forward, we expect a stabilization in running cost growth compared to 2021 in the range between 4.5% year-on-year not including costs coming from the project related to the expansion abroad and FinEQ Asset Management. Cost income, we confirm that our guidance of continuously declining cost income in the long run, thanks to the scalability of our platform and to the strong operating gearing, we have these excluding costs related to our expansion abroad. With regards to systemic charges for 2021, we'll be in a range between 37 and 39 millions, booked within provisions for risk and charges, also including the 2 million charges to the single resolution funds already booked in the second quarter. Please note that the more we'll be affecting in the deriveraging of the balance sheet, the more we can decrease our contribution to systemic charges. Tax rate for 2021, we expect heat stable here and here. While going forward, we expect a reduction of around one percentage point per year. On our capital ratio, we expect the CT1 ratio to remain above the floor of 70% and leverage ratio in the range between 3.5 and 4% currently with a combination of both a strong acceleration in the growth of the bank and the distribution of generous dividends. Dividend per share going forward expected hit constant increasing also thanks to the progressive delivery on our strategic discontinuities. Customer risk was equal to seven basis points in the second quarter of 2021, thanks to the quality of our lending portfolio that is offered exclusively to our loyal customer base. For 2021, we expect a hit below 10 basis points, and in 2022, in the range between 10 and 15 basis points. Finally, we expect a robust and high-quality net sales with a mix mainly skewed towards asset under management and with a lower component of the positive thanks to all the new initiatives we are undertaking. Let's now move to slide 22 to deep dive into the leveraging. The recent events have produced a strong acceleration in the structural trends and have increased the speed at which we are growing. In order to take full advantage from our new dimension of growth and to further build on it, we have recently undertaken a wide set of initiatives that are already delivering higher than expected results. Let me please remind you that the new initiatives will allow us to improve our revenues mix as we are strategically evolving our business model to a fee and commission driven model. becoming more a platform to fulfill clients' financial needs than a bank. Let me now go briefly through the new initiatives. First, we changed the incentive scheme of the network of financial planners that is now wholly linked to the net sales in asset under management. This has produced a strong acceleration in improving the quality of our net sales mix. Second, we will further increase the productivity of the network through new software developments leveraging on our deep internal IT know-how. Third, also thanks to Finneco asset management efficiency and strong time to market, we can count on a wider product range in order to fully catch the whole spectrum of clients' financial needs and effectively convert their excess liquidity. For example, our fund target and pension fund proposition fits the best for risk-adverse clients, while the platform of third-party savings account, which is now live in test phase, is perfect for clients with no intention to invest in managed products. Finally, we are improving the quality of our client base. focusing our target market on the upper end, also thanks to the repricing of our banking services in order to better control the acceleration of new clients from traditional banks and be more selective in our client acquisition. All this set of new initiatives will allow us to be more selective in the growth we are pursuing, resulting in a better quality revenues mix coupled with the leveraging of our balance sheet. Let's now move on slide 23 to deep dive on our banking business. As you know, we have set a number of industry initiatives to manage liquidity, improve the quality of our client base, and total financial asset mix. And in the end, the leverage of our balance sheet. Among these, it is worth mentioning The more dynamic management of our treasury, together with the possibility to extract profits from our treasury management linked to the leveraging activity of our balance sheet. The increase in the appetite for lending by our clients with no change to our cautious and conservative approach. The already mentioned new platform to distribute third parties' savings account. The new pricing of our banking services. finally the new platform to manage the tax credits towards the state under the eco bonus and super bonus this will help us in sustaining the net interest income with an interesting yield and no use of capital as the counterparty of the credit is the state please know that we can afford to be particularly aggressive on this initiative as our strong operating leverage allow us to cope with the complexity deriving from the granularity of the single fiscal credit to manage, and thanks to the fact that we act as withholding agent for our customers on their brokerage volumes. The results of the second quarter already show the first contribution coming from the tax credit, which we are progressively buying. Let me please remind you that we have a volume potential in the range between 1.5 and 2 billions. Let's now move to slide 24 for a deep dive on our investing business. As anticipated going forward, we expect an acceleration of our investing revenues and margins thanks to a further increase in our natural productivity leading to growing volumes and to the strategic discontinuity we are undertaking with finical asset management to further extract additional operational efficiency, which will allow us to take more control of the investing value chain. In this slide, we summarize our actions to further improve both the volume effect and finical asset management contribution. Our initiatives are already proving to deliver, as you can see from our record asset under management in the sales, which in the first half of 2021 were already close to the ones gathered in the full year 2020. Fineco asset management performed even better. We retained sales already exceeding 2020 results. In the further proof, that our Irish company is progressively gaining commercial traction. In particular, let me please highlight that Finic Asset Management is confirmed to be key in our move to accelerate the conversion of deposits into asset under management, and it is strongly and increasingly contributing to the groups that says. As you know, the increase in its volumes will result in the growth of its margin contribution which will be further improved by the discontinuity in the internalization of the value chain. This will allow Finicostad management to progressively and structurally decrease the cost of third parties through a number of initiatives, like for example, the launch of the new flagship product range, fully managed in-house, new advisory services, or lower cost of mandates. I now leave the floor to Paolo Di Grazia, our Deputy General Manager, for an update on the development of our UK business on slide 29.

Thank you, Alessandro, and good afternoon, everybody. First half results confirm once again that our one-stop solution offering UK is providing to be very well welcome in our marketing campaign is providing a strong boost to quality client acquisition. In the first half of the year, we have already opened more current accounts than in the whole 2020, and we are now developing a brand new proprietary model to maximize the efficiency of our marketing campaign based on volatility and client behaviors. The acceleration of our customer acquisition dynamics and the quality of our client base have been confirmed in the last few months. For example, as you can see on the second graph on the left-hand side of the slide, we are improving the penetration of active clients on brokerage, representing more than 70% on new current accounts in the first half of 2021, confirming that we are not attracting hit and run, highly speculative and volatile customers but we are attracting experienced traders loyal and looking for quality offer a further evidence of the right positioning chosen by the bank and this translates in a further boost of our revenues and regeneration on the right hand side of the slide you can see revenues in the first half of the year being almost equal to the ones recorded in the whole 2020. on top of this we are continuing to improve our revenues mix in favor of OTC over the counted and listed products, which are now the lion's share of the growth. In slide 30, we sum up the next steps that are getting us closer to the full launch of our investing offer. In particular, we have now ended the first step of our investing platform as we have widened our offering introducing more than 20 asset managers and launched our isa offer we are now entering the second step which will focus on further improving the user experience by building up easy to use journeys and maps to help clients choose the best investment solution based on their goals on a final note as alessandro already described the two strategic discontinuities on the The leverage on the investing will allow us to further increase our growth plan abroad. In this regard, by next year, we will be able to increase our marketing expenses in the UK while we are preparing the setup to launch our offer in Germany by the first half of 2022, as we think that our model adjusts based on the features of the German market can be very attractive for local clients. Thank you for your attention, and now I will hand it back to Alessandro.

Thank you, Paolo. Thank you for your time. I catch this opportunity to invite you to our IT Day that is going to be held on September 9, 2021, at 3 p.m. Italian time. Now we can open the call to questions.

Excuse me, this is the Coral School conference operator. We will now begin the question and answer session. The first question is from Azura Guelphi with Citi. Please go ahead.

Hi, good afternoon. Two questions for me, one on investing fees and FAM and the other one on capital. The question on FAM is if I look well at your outlook you indicate a significant expansion of margin from 63 current to 75 basis point and the majority of the flows basically the totality coming from FAM in the next few years and this would imply more or less a growth of the fees around 20% for the next couple of years. Does this make sense is implied in your outlook And when I look at the margin expansion, can you elaborate a bit more on what are the main driver? Is it the mandate revision or new product offer and things like that? And what are the key risks you see in implementing these new strategies? The second one is on the capital. You expect a dividend per share to grow continuously over the next few years. And is this based on a 50% payout or given your capital and the leveraging that you would like to implement in some sort of strategy, it could result in also higher payout, or do you expect some of the capital to be redeveloped in other growth opportunities, for example, expansion in other countries abroad? Thank you.

Let me start from investing fees. First of all, the calculations you're making clearly are in the right direction. What I would like to underline is that it's very important that you look not just to the pre-tax margins, but it's very important also the after-tax margins because considering The fact that the company is based in Ireland, so this clearly remains important. The main driver and the main risk behind the strategy. The main driver is related to the risk. Let me start from the macro picture. environment is expected to remain extremely favorable considering the combination of low interest rates and rising inflation, and this is accelerating the change in the habits by clients. This is a structural tailwind in our favor. Second, as we were mentioning, the The productivity of the network, their journey in growing the productivity of the network is just at the beginning. And so we expect a continuously growing productivity by them. And third, clearly there is also a change in the approach by clients. They are more and more looking for investment solutions than just buying the single product. Finnecos Admin is going to emerge as the provider of this investment solution. The most recently launched set of products is a clear demonstration of that. Second, we are going to move in the direction of We are going to remain clearly and our business is going to remain based on the concept of an open platform, but we are going to move in the direction of a rationalization of the relationship with our partners. So we are going to have a more fruitful cooperation with a more restricted number of partners. And putting everything together, clearly this is going to make the largest part of the future net sales represented by Finic asset management solution. And this is going to be driven by combination of new net sales and also transformation of the stock. The main risk. So the main risk are clearly mostly the region of something that is not in our hands to be managed. So clearly if we enter in a structural long-lasting market disruption, clearly this can put temporarily on hold the strategy. Not reversing, but delaying and making everything a little bit harder to be achieved. But clearly we cannot manage We cannot manage the market. Honestly speaking, I don't see any other relevant risk. It is much more a matter of execution in our hands. The bank has a quite robust track record. in executing plans and so on. So we are quite confident that we can achieve these results. And on capital, clearly we think that giving a direct guidance based on the payout doesn't make a lot of sense for a bank that is on the fast lane of growth. We are in a growth story, and so we prefer to guide the market in the direction of a continuously growing dividend per share trend. I would like to return to the concept that what the bank is doing is at the same time accelerating in a big way in the direction of increasing the margins and so the profitability of the bank. At the same time, we are making a lot of progress in making our business a completely capitalized business model and so giving to us a larger room for distributing dividends. We prefer not entering the, giving a guidance on the payout makes sense for someone that is not expecting, is not expected to have in front of them a growth story. We are a growth story, so we are confident that our dividend per shares is going to continuously going up, and so this, the guidance we are giving.

The next question is from Enrico Bolzoni with Credit Suisse.

Please go ahead.

Hi, good afternoon and congratulations on, I think, a very strong result. Just a few questions on my side, please. So one is on your new net sales target you're guiding now for roughly $6 billion in retail flows. I mean, to be honest, considering the number you posted recently, I was just wondering if you can give some color in terms of whether, indeed, you wanted to be conservative, providing this guidance. A second question, partially related. So, on the advisor, you had clearly the balancing number, if I got it right, is about 30, 40 advisors left. I just wanted to know what's the typical advisor that decides to live in an equity because it retires or it's because it decides to pursue different career opportunities? And also linked to that, you're doing quite a bit of junior recruiting. Can you give us some idea of what's the difference in productivity of a junior advisor compared to an experienced one? And I presume it's lower. How long does it take for the two to kind of align in terms of productivity? And then very final question. You mentioned in the past that you're launching a SIP in the UK. Can you remind us of the timeline for that? Thank you.

So regarding the net sales target, I would like to remind that it is a net sales target of asset under management product and that they are nearly 100% made by Finneco asset management solutions. Clearly, the overall net sales are going to be probably higher than that level. We think that this is an extremely robust guidance, but when we are giving the guidance, we try to avoid it to present to investors and shareholders a book of dreams because it doesn't make any sense. So we prefer to present something that is using a wording like and challenging but achievable. So all the guidance and results we're presenting are very robustly sustained by extremely evident and quite consistent actions. So the numbers are extremely solid and robust. So this means that clearly our ambition is to do even better. As we, the same approach we used going through this year, as probably if you remind, we started in giving guidance on increase of the revenues on investing that was in the region of 15%, then we moved up to between 15 and 20, and now we are landing on a range between 20 and 25%. We prefer to bring to the market something that is solid, robust, and on which we are confident to achieve these results. The financial planners that live in Finicco are relatively few of them. The most part of them is related to financial planners retiring. Then we have some financial planners that they are leaving the bank, but there are really very few for joining other organizations. And then we have also the financial planners that we are getting rid of them because they are not matching the requirements in terms of regulatory respect of use, conduct, and so on. So we are taking an extremely rigorous approach in determining if a financial plan is perfectly in line with our expectations. The junior financial planners clearly have a level of productivity at the beginning that is definitely lower than the senior financial planners. So in the best case, they are reaching a high level of productivity within a couple of years, but this clearly is that the junior financial planners particularly smart and fast in entering the new job. Usually an average junior financial planner for junior financial planners reaching a high level of productivity usually takes more or less than five years time horizon. We are perfectly aware that it's an investment we are doing, but for us a priority is not just to be concentrated on the very short-term results, but also, for example, to be sure that we are not running the risk to have a network that is aging too fast, because one of the most important problems for the industry, for the financial planning industry, that is an industry that is rapidly aging because the industry is extremely reluctant in investing in a young, talented person exactly because they are not immediately productive from the beginning. But currently we have our approach that has been always to be To look to the long run, we are clearly very interested in investing on these young talented guys that are going to represent the future of the bank. On SIP, I'm leaving the floor to Paolo if you want to give an answer on the point.

Yeah, we know that SIP is very, very important for the UK offer. We're working on it. Unfortunately, it's strictly linked to the physical presence in the UK, so we will need a branch over there to launch the SIPs. Of course, we stopped the launch of the branch that was already planned because of the pandemic, but we are now reopening the project, so I think probably by the end of the first half of 2022, we will be able to to also have a seat in the UK offer.

Thank you. That's very helpful.

The next question is from Domenico Santoro with HSBC. Please go ahead.

Hello. Hi. Thanks for the presentation. Good afternoon. A number of questions from my side. First of all, The guidance that you give on margins because of the internalization of the production at FAM, can you give us a little bit of color on the phasing on these assets that will be internalized at FAM supporting your increase in margin guidance? In other words, I mean, Today, farm has, if I'm not wrong, in terms of retail, $13 billion. So as of today, on the total IUM, I calculated an increase in revenues because of this of $60 million. So how much is it going to be? 25% this year, 50% next year, and then 100% in 2014. Can you give us a little bit of color on the phase? It's important because the more you accelerate this process, of course, I mean, you give a number, so 2024, but the more you accelerate this process and the more you can get extra revenues in terms of P&L. And I was just wondering whether the phasing of the internalization is also the reason why you give us such a wide range in terms of fee growth in the investing for this year, 20, 25%, apart from market dislocation, you know, that could, of course, affect margins. The second question is a bit beyond 2021 on the banking fees, because you have a number of initiatives here, of course, and the banking fees have been another driver for growth for fees over the last couple of years. So I just wonder how this $45 million can basically level up next year, given that you mentioned quite a growth also in the guidance. The other question is on dividend. I mean, of course, the more you leverage the balance sheet, the more your leverage ratio will benefit from this process. But the dividend that you paid as of today, the one that you basically targeted for October, fixed the leverage at four. But you have more flexibility. So I know that you don't want to mention the payout because, I mean, your story is so dynamic and all the moving parts, you know, basically... they influence the final outcome. I just wonder, at the end of 2021, given that you have 50 basis points of flexibility on the leverage, you might be a little bit more courageous in terms of dividend. And what could be the base we should consider for 2021? The last one announced in 2019, which was 32, if I remember, cents. And then a final question, the eco-bonus, the tax rate that you will take is around 1.52 billion, if my understanding is correct. Can you give us a little bit of color on how this benefits the NII? What is the health attached to this? Also because, I mean, the more NII you, in theory, you generate from lending tax rate I assume that the tax rate will remain on your balance sheet of course because you need to defend the NIA but the more you get in terms of NIA the less you need to sell bonds and of course it's all again very dynamic for your for your story and how much was the contribution also on Q2 thank you sorry for the long questions regarding the many

management fee margins you are completely right so the the the the fast the faster is going to be our execution the batteries the definition because this is going to accelerate the the jumping margins clearly we we we expect that in 2021 because the the we are we are just uh we are now working right now on the uni on the new initiatives for uh taking a more direct control of the value chain, so we cannot rule out that the beginning of some possible effect can emerge and be materialized also before the year-end. Again, we prefer to be extremely cautious because if this is going to happen, it's going to be very welcome, but we prefer. So our approach is that we think that to have progressively the most part of initiatives going up and running through 2021, so clearly that 2022, So 2022 is going to experience an absolutely very interesting jump in the investing revenues. It's going to be, let me say, a little bit a kind of a geometrical progression because in 2000, for example, 2023 is going to be really big and going forward. The reason why we are not giving an exactly precise indication of the timing is because we have an initiative on which we have to rely on, for example, the approval by the local central bank. So we are extremely confident that because we are working in a country that that is incredibly efficient and cooperative with what we are doing but clearly we prefer to be a little we prefer to be to remain again cautious not giving an indication that on on evolution that we are not we are not in the position to completely manage because we and so we our idea is to exactly the same way we we did immediately after the announcement of the discontinuity is progressively to is to give to the market the more precise indication so probably going through the the third quarter results we are going to have in our hands more even more precise indications regarding also the time horizon of the new initiatives and our idea is to progressively become more and more precise in guiding the market also on the distribution time of the increase of these margins. But the same approach we have used on progressively guiding the market higher on the revenues growth on investing because we started on a guidance on 50 percent growth and now we are in a range between 20 and 25 percent. So the more we progress and the more we are going to become precise on giving an indication also on the timing.

Banking fees going forward? Sorry, can I just basically ask a follow-up question to clear? I mean, we have everything clear. Is this phasing influencing, in a way, your guidance for this year, first of all? No. So 20%, 25%?

No.

No. And the other question is, in 2024, how much of the assets you imagine are going to be, as far as the production is concerned, internalized by FAM, more or less.

Lorena, may you give me a help on this?

Yes.

Precise calculations.

Thank you, Alessandro. So in our estimation, we are working on from 45% to 50% in a range between 45% to 50% of penetration of FinEco asset management on asset under management, on total asset under management.

Okay, thank you. On the banking fees going forward, we For example, what is a developing story because we are taking a little bit by surprise by the very strong growth we are experiencing in terms of client acquisitions and inflows because what we were expecting considering the introduction of the new pricing on our banking services, the introduction of the closed that is giving us the right of closing the accounts of clients with too much and too high level of liquidity. We were expecting an increase in the quality of clients, but to some extent a kind of deceleration of the client acquisition, but it's happening exactly the opposite. And so this clearly the more clients we are taking on board and the more clearly is boarding well for the evolution of the banking fees. And the reason why we are not giving and we are just giving an indication of a growing banking fees is because it's a developing story. So the resilience of our growth of base of clients is taking us by surprise. So probably the tailwind represented by the structural changes disruption in the relationship between traditional banks and clients, clearly the tailwind is stronger than we were expecting. And so this is the reason why we think that it's not the case to give any precise guidance on the banking fees that are expected to keep on going up in any case. On dividend, you're completely right. the more we are stabilizing the growth of the basal deposits and the more flexibility we have because we are not just expected to increase the profitability of the bank, we are expected to have larger room of disposing of this profitability. And the reason why we are not entering in the game of giving a precise indication on the on the amount of dividends and on the payout is because Fineco remains a growth story. And so we want to be, so we are guiding the market in a direction that on which we feel absolutely confident that our dividend per share is expected to keep on growing. But at the same time, we want to be, we want to maintain the flexibility to capture all the opportunity for making our growth even more robust. So in this case, I'm referring to the expansion abroad. Clearly, the more we are going to see the favorable conditions, and then the more we are going to take advantage of this. And so for this reason, we think that to enter in an approach that is rigid, and with a low level of flexibility on dividends doesn't make a lot of sense for a growth story like we are. So we think that we are a unique combination of a fast-growing company that at the same time is extremely relaxed on a continuous increase in the dividend. But we want to remain and we want to maintain the flexibility to get all the opportunity offered by in terms of growth by this extremely fast changing world and on the tax credit again i'm asking to lorena to to give a more precise indication on them which is the kind of yield we are expecting to get on the on the on the on the tax credit i'm very i want to i want to remind remember that i want to remind that the tax credits are not waiting on the balance sheet because they are not generating respected assets. But Lorraine, if you can elaborate on the yield.

Yes, so we expect a yield in the region of 1.4%, 1.5%. It depends on the mix of the tax credit we are buying, because there are tax credits with a duration of 5 years or 10 years. We buy from retail customers, but we are buying also on the secondary market by institutional counterparties. And we expect that is very interesting for us.

Yes, I would like to reiterate the concept that Fineco is in a unique position because we have a combination of growing and predictable profitability. So this is allowing us to be quite confident when we are buying tax credit. This is not the same story for traditional banks. For them, the profitability is less predictable because we know that For example, if tomorrow morning there is another recession, clearly we hope that this is not going to happen. Clearly for traditional banks, this is going to have a huge impact on their profitability. This is not our case. So our profitability is predictable, continuously growing, and also we have this extremely favorable situation represented that we are acting as withholding agents our brokerage clients and this is giving to us an even larger room for buying credits by clients. And finally, Finneco is incredibly efficient from an operational point of view because this is a business incredibly complex from the operational point of view. This is the reason why many organizations are giving up on buying tax credits.

This $1.5 billion is a stock that can be generated reasonably soon, before the end of the year, or is it more a target at one year, one year and a half?

As usual, we prefer to be very serious without avoiding to sell book of dreams. Lorena correct me if I'm wrong, our goal is to fulfill the full capacity. going through 2021 and going through 2022. Probably by the end of 2022, we expect to be at the full capacity.

Yes. Thank you very much. Thanks for the answer.

The next question is from Angeliki with Autonomous Research. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. First of all, Could part of the margin uplift that you're guiding as an outcome of the actions that you're taking at Finneco Asset Management get completed away over time, meaning that, you know, you benefit from around 12 basis points uplift by 2024, but maybe the underlying trend of the industry competition effectively means that you have to lower margins across the SAM products. I would like to get your thoughts on that. Second question, are the financial advisors remunerated more for the FAM products relative to third-party products? And third question on the Germany launch, will this be with online brokerage first? And is it fair to consider that you will offer very competitive prices relative to the Italian market given competition in Germany is much higher. Thank you very much.

Yes, the margin uplift is mostly driven by operational efficiency. So this means that we are in the position to be able to give to our clients. So it's the perfect is a perfect combination which we are able to give to our clients and all the new products and a higher level of convenience because we are recovering in a big way efficiency at the same time increasing our margins. For this reason, we think that this guidance is not under the threat of increasing competition by the market. I would like to remind that overall, generally speaking, Finnecon remains among the decently large players in the asset gathering industry, the most competitive. So we're going to be, for sure, the last ones suffering any potential pressure match. In any case, we have also interesting projects. in internalizing also, for example, passive funds that is a way of giving to our clients an extremely convenient product, but at the same time retaining internally a quite interesting level of profitability. And we cannot rule out going forward to extend our internalization, for example, to the ETFs That guidance has been given to the market considering also the expected pressure that is going to build up on margins of the industry. Regarding the financial planning simulation, the answer is yes. The financial planners are getting more on the FinEco asset management products, but this is mostly driven by the fact that on our FinEco asset management solutions, we are able to have a much more effective and efficient, for example, risk management process in place. Because on the Finneco asset management products, we have the possibility to have the look-through of the composition of the funds in real time. And when we are looking to the original retail strategy on the platform, they look through in the best cases available with a temporal lag between 30 up to 60 days. So clearly there is, I was referring that is a perfect combination which the clients are getting more convenience than surprising on the new generation of products. The bank is increasing the margins and the financial planners are paid more. And on Germany, the answer is yes, we're going to be we're going to offer an extremely competitive pricing. And if you look to what the pricing we have in the UK, you have, in my opinion, a good proxy of the kind of offer we're going to bring in Germany. I would like also to remind that in Germany, the conditions offered to the market are a little bit less convenient than they appear. And so we think that with the pricing we have in mind, that is not a secret. Again, if you look to the pricing we are using in UK, this kind of pricing is going to be extremely competitive and disruptive on the German market.

I don't know, Paolo, if you want to give some more flavor on this point.

Yes, maybe that we are planning to start in Germany with the full range of products we offer in Italy, meaning also investing since the beginning. So we will be offering brokerage, the full offer, investing the full offer, more than 60 asset managers, and of course the banking also. And then, yeah, the pricing, we know very well it's very important, but it's not the only thing. I think probably our strength is to put together pricing with the range of products, the one-stop solution, and of course the reliability of the platform and most of all the customer care we offer, which is a very high level.

Thank you. Just to confirm, there will not be a physical financial advisory in Germany, right? There is not going to be a network of financial advisors?

No, just digital. Yeah, no financial advisors.

Thank you.

The next question is from Luigi Dabellis with Equita. Please go ahead.

Yes, good afternoon to everybody. Three questions for me. The first one is on the UK and Germany initiatives. Can you elaborate a little more on the strategy for your growth abroad, in particular in Germany? For example, I know it's too early, but some targets, initial targets in terms of customer acquisition, mix of sales, or target of asset under management, or timing of the expected break-even in Germany based on UK experience. The second question is on the distribution of third parties' savings account. What is the expected contribution from this initiative? And the last question is more general on the M&A and evolution of asset management industry in Italy. And if you expect in particular a change in the competitive scenario going forward, also in light of the recent interest for Deutsche Bank financial advisor network or statements of foreign players to enter or strengthening the presence in Italy. Thank you.

Regarding the first point, I think, Paolo, that probably you agree that on Germany it's clearly too early to start on giving such a precise indication because we We are in the, we are studying the, we are preparing the plan for entering Germany, but now to give a precise indication on, we are going to use the same approach we have used in UK, so extremely relaxed. We are going to leverage on our huge operational leverage, so we're not under pressure and so, but at the moment we think that it's a little. For sure, also the same case of UK, the operational break-even is going to be reached relatively easy, in an easy way, thanks to the operational efficiency we have. I don't know, Paolo, if you want to elaborate a little bit more on the point.

Yeah, for Germany it's too early. We have a precise plan in our head, but it's too early to talk about it, I think. Yeah, great operating leverage. probably within one year we will be able to cover it. And the cost, the structural cost, again, it will be a mix anyway of our main strength. As I said before, pricing, reviews, customer care, range of products, the stability and reliability of the platform, all these things I think could be very, very strong in every country of Europe, actually not only in Germany and the U.K.

using the usual approach. The more positive feedbacks we're going to receive in the market and the more money we're going to put on the table. So what we can get is an incremental approach. On distribution of third-party savings accounts, as we said, we are now in the phase of the family and friends phase. We expect to open the platform by the probably by the end of the month. I don't know, Paolo, if you can confirm that probably it's going to be at the end of the month.

Yes, we're going to open in a week or 10 days we're going to be open. Yes, I confirm.

And the contribution we expect and we are quite confident to have an absolutely interesting contribution in our journey for leveraging the balance sheet, because practically we are going to accelerate the absorption of liquidity by the most reluctant clients in buying asset under management solutions. So this is clearly We are going to start initially with the first bank and progressively we are going to add some more banks going forward. On the competitive scenario, we have not such a great interest in what's going on because as we can confirm that we are not interested in any external option for growing because our organic growth is so strong, so big that clearly we practically every year we like to acquire a middle-sized network of a middle-sized banking network and so we have absolutely no interest in what's going on at the moment on the market. We prefer to remain fully concentrated in making our organic growth continue gaining momentum and the tailwinds are incredibly strong and keeping on reinforcing that. We think that It would be a massive mistake to waste time in chasing external opportunities.

Thank you.

The next question is from Andrea Vercellone with Exane. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon. I still have quite a few. Hopefully they're quick. First one is on your guidance on tax rate going forward. I understand the logic as to why it drops. I was just wondering whether your guidance is for one percentage point dropped every single year until 2024 or a shorter period. Then on launch in Germany, can you give us an idea of the uh one-time costs that you plan for next year in terms of set up marketing expenses recruiting actually no there's no recruiting because it's it's completely online just to know similar to what you did for the uk how much we should expect in terms of launch costs Then on capital, I was just wondering if the 250 million RWAs that you flagged in Q1 related to Brexit are still there in H2 and what dividend accrual assumptions you have made for the first half of the year. I understand you will pay whatever you will pay. I just want to know what is in the capital calculation. Then on bond disposals, I would like to know if there's any accounting or practical limitation as to how many you can sell every year. I believe it's 10% of the total, but I'm not sure. In the sense that if your deleveraging is very successful, well, in theory, you could sell a lot of bonds in the early years. I just want to know if there are limitations to doing so. Then you may choose to do it or you may choose not to do it. Then on dividends going forward, it wasn't clear to me, the question has already been asked, but the answer wasn't clear to me. You mentioned progressive dividend policy. What wasn't clear to me is from what base, progressive, And finally, on FAM, again, I understand the logic as to why margins expand, gross margin expand. You have also mentioned that financial advisors are paid more for distributing FAM-managed products as opposed to third-party managed products. Is it then fair to assume that the line item, I don't remember how you call it, but compensation to financial advisors is also going to increase geometrically as funds margin will do? Thank you.

So let me start from the... So I'm asking my colleagues if they can scroll the... So I can see that regarding the tax rate going forward, clearly I'm asking to Lorena to confirm that I'm not wrong, that the drop is 1% per year up to 2024, I suppose, Lorena. Yes, it's correct. Yes. So regarding the one-off cost for Germany set up, And for sure, they're going to be lower than the UK because the process is going to be more straightforward considering the more direct passporting in Germany is part of the European Union and so on. But, Paolo, if you want to be even more precise of estimating potentially the one-off cost for Germany.

Yeah, it's going to be for sure less than what we spent in the UK. It's going to be in the region of less than one million probably. And yeah, this is pretty much the amount.

And in terms of advertising budget, because obviously you set it up, but then you need to make yourself known. That could be several millions, I suppose.

Yes, but it's too early to say because it depends on the... because we prefer to have a precise idea of the market. For example, in the UK, when we started initially, we had been very prudent in starting and spending money because before spending aggressively on the market, you have to be sure that what you are presenting is absolutely perfectly fitting to the market conditions and clearly we think that what we are setting up is quite good for the German market but until you are not there you cannot be completely sure that all the small single details are perfectly working so it's a We prefer to be extremely flexible at this point because if everything is absolutely perfect and perfectly working, the market can... So also because on this point probably Paolo can be even more precise, considering that in Germany at the beginning, the largest part of the business, the beginning is going to be represented by brokerage. And so brokerage depends also on the market conditions. So Paolo, on the point that... So if there is volatility on the market, it's worth the case to spend in marketing. But if the volatility is not there, like, for example, in this period of time, it doesn't make a lot of sense to spend money. I don't know, Paolo, if you want to add to the point.

Yes, of course. First of all, we're going to spend the first six, eight months of 2022 to fine-tune the engine because Before spending a large amount of money, we need to be sure 100% the engine is working properly. And then we will start spending a few money to test the process, basically. So we see the full steam at the end of 2022 and 100% full steam in 2023.

So reasonably speaking, next year, in Germany and unless we found in an incredibly favorable condition in which everything is perfectly working and also the market is incredibly favorable for brokerage with volatility spiking up again and so on I'm not managing that we're going to spend in a big way in marketing in Germany it's going to be much more in a set up period of the business I don't know Paolo if you share my On the capital, I don't know, Lorraine, if you want to give the question on risk-weighted assets and the dividend accrual, if you want to give a more precise answer.

Okay, thank you. So regarding the risk-weighted assets related to Brexit, we have started to progressively decrease our exposure towards UK and in the second quarter we have reduced the UK exposure by 71 million in terms of risk-weighted assets. And regarding dividend... Lorena, I'm going forward with

which kind of guidance we can give on this point.

Yes, our proposal is to reduce completely the exposure towards the UK if the UK counterparties will not be considered as equivalent European countries with zero risk exposure.

Exactly, because the plan, we are moving progressively because clearly this position is completely unreasonable because to charge 100% risk-weighted assets on a UK exposure doesn't make any sense considering that we have other countries that are not part of the European Union, that they don't have the same penalized treatment. So we think that, but in any case, So the plan is, if this is not going to happen, the plan is progressively to get rid completely of the UK exposure. And on the dividend?

The dividend in the first half, we had accrued in Common Equity Tier 1 capital 87 million of net profit, of which 32 million related to the impact of fiscal realignment of Goodwill. This represents 70% of payout ratio excluding from the net profit the positive impact of fiscal realignment of goodwill.

And regarding the bond disposal?

Regarding the bond disposal, yes, we have a limit that is 10% of the total amount of bonds that we have at the end of the previous year.

Yes, but regarding the point raised by Andrea, that in the case that we have a faster than expected deleveraging process, we can sell more, clearly.

Yes, yes, absolutely. But so we have... It's not working if the deleveraging process... Yes, yes. We have a so big amount of bonds that it's quite impossible to have this kind of...

And regarding the dividends going forward, progressive dividends policy from what base? Progressive, Lorena, is still yours.

Alessandro, you have already answered to this question without giving a precise guidance on that.

So the point remains the same. I want to be sure that we got your questions in the right way. We are quite absolutely confident on being able to keep on growing our dividend per share. This takes the combination of continuously growing profitability and larger room for disposing of this profitability. but we prefer not giving a precise indication on the payout exactly because Finneco is a growth story, so for this reason.

But the question was from what base we are... Yeah, the question was not on payouts, which obviously depends on the earnings. It's more, if you say growing, the only references we have got is the special dividend you will pay in q4 which however relates to two years or the dividend you paid in 2018 we have no other reference points so then if it's i don't know below 2018 we will be telling you you said it was going to be growing and it didn't i don't know if you will or will not but just to be

somewhere guided in the wrong in the correct direction let's say so let me clearly i understand that so our our objective is to uh so our constraints either is uh the leverage ratio and our goal is to maintain a leverage ratio above uh 3.5 percent from 3.5 percent to four percent and The excess of capital in relation to this ratio can be distributed as a dividend. Around 70% of dividend payout is a number that could have a sense for us.

Yes.

Okay. and on commissions to, retrocessions to financial advisors?

The margins that we are giving as a, so the 75 basis points pre-tax and the, what was, 50, what was the, 55, they are, clearly they are considering They are considering, so correct me if I'm wrong, Lorena, they are considering what is paid to financial planners.

Yes.

So these margins are embedding automatically the higher payments that they are going to make to financial planners for the increase of the penetration financial asset management. So these margins are, from that point of view, are net margins, not gross margins.

All clear. Thank you.

Gentlemen, there are no more questions registered at this time. Mr. Foti, would you like to add any final comments to conclude the conference?

Thank you very much for attending our conference. Thank you once again for the extremely precise and extremely important questions you made to us. And as usual, if you need to make some more deep diving in our numbers and concepts, please feel free to make us a call for arranging a follow-up. Thank you again.