Finecobank Banca Fine Spa

Good morning. This is the Coral School Conference operator. Welcome and thank you for joining the FinEco Bank first quarter 2025 results conference call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Should anyone need assistance during the conference call, they may signal an operator by pressing star and zero on their telephone. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Alessandro Foti, CEO and General Manager of Fineco Bank. Please go ahead, sir.

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining our first quarter 2025 results conference call. Before moving into the details of the presentation, let me stress that Fineco is recording an incisable acceleration of its growth dynamics, supported by a very healthy underlying quality. Our growth is leveraging on our superior customer experience and on our fair and transparent positioning, not on short-term aggressive offer. This approach is mirrored in the quality of our revenues mix, which is entirely recovering with a very low percentage of upfront fees and no performance fees at all. Let's now move to the first quarter results. Net profit in the period reached $164.2 million, up by 11.7% year-on-year. Revenues achieved $329.3 million as growth of non-financial income offset lower interest rates. Investing increased by 11.3% year-on-year thanks to the volume effect and the higher control of the value chain by Finneco Asset Management. And brokerage is up by 29.7% year-on-year, thanks to the enlargement of our active investors and higher market volumes. Operating costs were well under control at $87.2 million, increasing by 7%, excluding costs related to the growth of the business, as we anticipated the timing of some expenses expected throughout the year. Cost income ratio was equal to 26.5%, confirming operating leverage as a key strength of the bank. Moving to our commercial results, the underlying step up in our growth dynamics become crystal clear month by month. And for 2025, we continue to expect a higher asset under management and deposits net sales compared to 2024. despite the challenging macro context. This is underpinned by the positive tailwinds from the structural trend, and we are leveraging on this solid momentum through a more efficient marketing activity. The results of this acceleration has been clearly visible in the first four months of 2025. First of all, in the first quarter, we acquired around 50,000 new clients, up by around 40% year-on-year. In April, new clients at around 15,000, up by 31% year-on-year. Second, our net sales were 3.2 billion in the first quarter, up by a strong 44% year-on-year. In April, total net sales saw a further acceleration at around 1%. $1,250,000,000, up by a very strong 48% here only. The mix was very positive, despite the strong market volatility in the month, with solid asset under management at around $200,000,000 net sales. Deposits were at around $150,000,000, and asset under custody at around $800,000,000. as our brokerage clients were very active on trading on the platform. As a consequence, brokerage recorded 22.5 million estimated revenues, up more than 20% year-on-year. Our capital position confirmed to be strong and safe, with a common equity tier 1 ratio at 24.1% and a leverage ratio at 5.34%. On the right-hand side of the slide, you can find a summary of our 2025 guidance. Despite the market correction since the beginning of the year, our diversified business model allows for an unchanged outlook for our non-financial income, only with a different mix. More in detail on investing revenues, given the elevated market volatility and uncertainty We are now sharing a sensitivity. Every $1 billion change of asset under management on May the 1st generates around $4.5 million of revenues from May the 1st until year-end. Regarding imports, just a clarification. So this is a rounded number that we give to the market in this way for making everything simple. The perfectly precise sensitivity is 4.7 million of revenues every 1 billion of change. Banking fees are expected in a slight decrease in 2025 versus 2024 due to the new regulation on instant payments. On brokerage, we confirmed 2025 expected revenue strong with a continuously growing floor thanks to the enlargement of our active investors. For 2025, we expect a record year for revenues. For 2025, we expect operating costs to grow around 6% year-on-year, not including a few millions of additional costs for growth initiatives in a range between $5 and $10 million, mainly for marketing, Finnecos asset management, and AI. Finally, in 2025, we expect a payout ratio in range between 70 and 80%. Let's now move to slide five. As announced, net profit in the first quarter of 2035 reached 164.2 million in a very challenging macro scenario, with an increase by 11.7 here on here. Revenues achieved 329.3 million, up by 0.7% here on here, thanks to the acceleration of non-financial income, which has been able to assess the decline in interest rates. Net commissions increased by a sound 9.2% here and here, thanks to the solid contribution of investing, up by 11.4% here and here, and brokerage up by 12.6% here and here. Trading profit increased by 56.3% here and here, mainly thanks to the higher brokerage activity and market volume, operating costs at 87.2 million, while under control and increasing by 7.7%, excluding costs strictly related to the growth of the business, mainly additional costs for finical asset management to further expand its business and having a higher control of the value chain, additional marketing costs to catch the strong momentum of the business, artificial intelligence as we are launching projects to further boost our network productivity. Let's now move to slide six for a deep dive on the performance of investing business. Investing revenues reached 94.5 million in the first quarter, increasing by a solid 11.3% year-on-year on the back of growing volumes thanks to our best-in-class market position, and of the higher efficiency of the value chain through FinEco asset management. The quarterly comparison is characterized by the usual seasonality on the financial advisor costs related to FEER and the NASARGO, that they are higher at the beginning of the year, to other commissions in the fourth quarter of 2024 related to operating efficiency reached throughout the year by Finic Asset Management, which are booked each year in the fourth quarter and by lower calendar days. Let me please remind you that the great quality of our investing revenues mirroring our transparent and fair approach towards clients. As a result, our revenues are mostly driven by recurring management fees with no performance fees at all. Our set of results is particularly remarkable, given the more challenging market environment for the asset management industry. Let's now move to slide seven. In this slide, we are representing the two main sources of growth for our investing business going forward. On one hand, FinEco asset management is increasing the control on the investing value chain, Its contribution to the group net sales has been consistent over the cycle thanks to its incredible time-to-market in delivering new investment solutions perfectly aligned with what clients are looking for. As a result, the contribution of Finnecos under management out of the total stock of asset under management has been steadily growing and it's now equal to 38.2%. On the other hand, being a platform, Fineco is the best place to catch with the latest trends in terms of clients' investment behaviors. There is a clear change underway in the structure of the market, with clients increasingly looking for quality, efficient, and fair solutions. All of this is channeling a strong demand towards advanced advisory services with an explicit fee, where Fineco is by far the best positioned in Italy, as you can see down in the slide. Let's now move to slide eight for a focus on brokerage. Brokerage registered a record first quarter with 69 million revenues. April was another strong month with 22.5 million revenues. driven by the increase in market volumes, building up on solid floor of higher revenues, driven by our large active investor base. Average revenues so far in 2035 are around 19% higher versus 2020, which are much more healthier underlying dynamics. This is driven by the structural increase in clients' interest to be more active on the financial market and building up a clear bridge between the brokerage and investing world. As such, the brokerage business represents the best sign of how fast the structural financial market is evolving as a whole, as technology is driving a swift change in client behaviors thanks to the higher transparency. For this reason, we still consider the brokerage Italian market very much under-penetrated, and we see a strong opportunity to grow despite already being the market leader. Let's now move to slide 10 for a focus on our capital ratios. Nico confirmed once again a capital position well above requirement on the wave of a safe balance sheet. Common equity tier 1 ratio at 24.10 we were quarter on quarter decrease mainly due to the CRR3. Leverage ratio at 5.34% and total capital ratio at 33.08% as of March, 2025. And the risk weighted asset was equal to 5.57 billion. As for the liquidity ratio, liquidity coverage ratio at 888%, and net stable funding ratio at 390%. While the ratio high quality liquid assets on deposit is at 78%, well above the average of the industry. Going forward, we confirm that we will continue to generate capital structurally and organically thanks to our capital life business model. Given the strong acceleration in our growth, we are taking more time to have a clear view on deposit net sales going forward as the underlying dynamics are strongly improving. If, despite the strong acceleration in our growth, there will remain excess capital, we will decide on the best way to return heat back to market. Now let's move to slide 16. Let's now focus on our 2025 guidance. Let me remind that despite the market correction since the beginning of the year, our diversified business model allows for an unchanged outlook of our non-financial income, only with a different mix. More in detail on investing revenues, given the elevated market volatility and uncertainty, we are now sharing a sensitivity Every $1 billion change of asset under management on May 1st generates around, and again I'm coming back to the precise number, $4.7 million of revenues from May 1st until year-end. Banking fees are expected with a slight decrease compared to 2024 due to the new regulation on instant payments. Brokerage revenues are expected to remain strong with a continuously growing floor thanks to the enlargement of our active investors. For 2025, we expect record revenues. Operating costs are expected to grow at around 6% year-on-year, not including millions of additional costs for growth initiatives in a range between 5 and 10 million, mainly for marketing, financial asset management, and artificial intelligence. Cost income we expect to hit comfortably below 30%, thanks to the scalability of our platform and to the strong operating gearing we have. On the payout ratio, we expect a hit for 2025 in a range between 70% and 80%. On leverage ratio, our goal is to remain above 4.5%. Cost of risk was equal to 5 basis points, thanks to the quality of our lending portfolio, and we expect a hit in a range between 5 and 10 basis points. Finally, we expect robust and high-quality net sales with an increasing asset under management and deposit plus, and the continued strong growth expected for our client acquisition as we are in the sweet spot to keep on adding new market shares. Let's now move to slide 17 for a deep dive on our growth opportunities. Cineco enjoys a unique market positioning to capture the long-term growth opportunity resulting by the huge Italian households' wealth and the fast-changing clients' behaviors. In the graph, you can see the stock potential for our growth, given the stock of financial wealth of the Italian families. Our market share is still small, and the room for growing is huge. We are particularly positive on our future outlook, as we are enjoying a clear market positioning, on which we have no competition. The most recent market trends are leading to a swift change in client investment behaviors, and Finneco is the only big player with a service model truly based on transparency, efficiency, and fair pricing. Moving to slide 18, the step up of our growth trajectory is clearly materializing, as you can easily see on our recent client acquisitions. On top of the slide, you can see the impressive acceleration of new clients, which is further building up in the first four months of 2035. This acceleration is very healthy because it's based on the quality of our offer and not on aggressive marketing campaign with short-term rates remuneration. As a result, all our new clients are improving the matrix of the bank by bringing more deposits and more business to our brokers and investing solutions. The cumulative growth of high-quality new clients is, month by month, translating into better net sales dynamics, allowing us to be particularly positive on our growth trajectory going forward. In the box down on the left, you can see that it's not just about quantity, but we are also seeing the strong increase in the underlying quality of our clients. the 44% increase of our total net sales can confirm. Let me also spend a word on deposits, where net sales have been overshadowed by massive use of our investment platforms by clients. In the first quarter, inflows of salary slash pension and net bank transfer had totaled $8.6 billion versus $7.3 billion in the same period of last year. Deposits Net sales before investments in asset under management, asset under custody, are equal to 2.8 billion, up by more than 50% year-on-year. This is a further confirmation of the strong acceleration of our growth and allowing us to be very optimistic on deposit net sales going forward. Finally, let me remind that we see a sizable mixed shift opportunity coming from the huge stock of our clients booked over the last couple of years, given that a large percentage of this has a short term maturity. This will give our financial planners an unprecedented opportunity to improve client mix into asset under management. Thank you for your time. We can now open the call to questions.

Thank you. This is the Corusco Conference Operator. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 under touchtone telephone. To remove yourself from the question queue, please press star and 2. We kindly ask to use handsets when asking questions. Anyone who has a question may press star and 1 at this time. The first question is from Luigi Dabelli's Equitasim. Please go ahead.

Good morning. Three questions for me. The first one is on the flows. So the platform is showing significant growth in terms of volume with assets under custody reaching 47 billion. So what strategies should we expect for this amount also in terms of potential new products and specifically what percentage do you believe could be converted into assets under management and or deposits over the next 12 months? The second question on the banking consolidation. So can you comment on any potential impact for the industry and Fineco in particular from the announced offer by Mediobanca on Banca Generali, particularly in the private banking segment? And if you are seeing already some changing in the recruitment trends. And the last question on the investing. Margins on management fees have remained pretty resilient. What should we expect in the coming quarters?

Thank you. Thank you for your questions. Let me start by some comments on the asset under custody because asset under custody is remaining a quite significant component of our net sales. And we think that it's worth the case to give a little bit more color on what we can expect going forward by the asset under custody because then what is emerging that seems that the market is considering asset under custody as the poor component of the mix. So that is, but this in our opinion is a little bit wrong for several reasons. So first of all, the clients buying asset under custody are Clearly, it means that they are starting on using the platform, and this is the fuel for the continuous growth of the brokerage business. Because also a client that is just buying a Govi, we know by the number that there is a quite interesting percentage of them that later on is starting on interacting on the platform for buying and selling also other instruments and an asset. So first point, the bigger is the asset under custody, and the bigger is going to be the potential of the brokerage business. Second component, because what is emerging in the asset under custody is a continuously growing component represented by ETFs. So this is probably the fastest, is the most relevant change that is underway in the structure of the market. And it's a little bit ignored by the industry. So, but I think that everybody is aware of what's going on on the ETFs. So Finipo is emerging as the practically is the platform of reference for ETFs based on the latest figures provided by the Italian Stock Exchange. Fineco is, in terms of flows, what is exchanged on the Fineco platform represents nearly 70% of what is related to the retail clients. So, few words. Fineco is controlling nearly 70% of the ETFs market in Italy. So, practically, we are the market. It's quite evident that in the next future, this is going to bring to a situation that is going to allow Fineco to start on extracting by this business, not just brokerage fees, but also running fees driven by two companies. First of all, because clearly it's a situation that really Fineco is controlling the clients. The clients are operating thanks to our platform. And so by definition, this means that the kind of agreement we have with the producer of ETFs are expected to change going forward. And so this is going to produce not just brokerage fees, but the running fees on the ETFs business. Second, it's opening the way for an extremely important development that is progressively building up of our own offer. Finicost management has been the first player in Italy starting on listing its own ETFs on the market and so this is going to start on giving us the opportunity to place to our clients our own ETFs and clearly this is going to be characterized by a much better component and much better control in the value chain so at the end of the story this is an incredibly exciting development that is underway. And our suggestion is to start looking to the evolution of the asset under custody, not as a poor business, but as a gigantic fuel for the future profitability of the bank. But not in the next decade, but in a future that is going to be relatively close. Regarding impact from M&A for Fineco in a private banking segment, clearly we are not making any specific comment on what's going on because World Policy is not making comments on other listed companies. What we expect in terms of the most important outcome for us is that clearly, but this is not just related to what's going on on the M&A, on the private banking segment, but also is related to the M&A in the traditional banking segment, that this means that the probability that the market is going to start on really considering what's going on in terms of changes of the structure of the market and behaviors is going to be even more remote because the industry is completely focused on trying to extract the highest possible synergies by these kind of mergers. At the same time, there is an evident change in the behavior for clients. And so we think that probably FinEQ is going to remain for a quite significant period of time absolutely alone in taking advantage by these very important structural changes. Yes, probably, as usual, when you have a big merger underway, there is a little bit of confusion on the market. But as you know, for us, recruiting never has been the key component of our growth. So the most part of our growth is organically driven. It's clear that if this evolving situation is going to create opportunities, we're going to capture them. But again, The most important opportunity is represented by the fact that the industry is going to be mostly focused on trying to get synergies and without any significant change in the prevailing business model in a period of time which the clients are changing quite significantly in their behaviors. On investing, yes, margins are expected to remain resilient. We expect margins being at least stable going forward. So in the guidance we gave on investing, clearly nothing has been changed. So we didn't change our expectations in terms of margins, respect the beginning of the year. We didn't change our expectation in terms of volumes. So I think it's been absolutely the same. The only point in which we try to be the most precise possible, that clearly there has been, by the beginning of the year, a market effect in place that clearly, by definition, is affecting the investing business. Clearly, this is an extremely volatile component. This is the reason why we are guiding the market with going forward with the sensitivity. Clearly, if we have a recovery of the market, clearly the situation can be improving even more. Because in any case, brokerage is expected to remain pretty strong. So again, I want to be extremely clear. We didn't change anything in the guidance, respect the guidance we gave in the previous conversation.

Thank you very much.

The next question is from Enrico Bolzoni, JP Morgan. Please go ahead.

Good morning, and thanks for taking my questions. So, first of all, on margins again, thank you very much for clarifying the precise number you had in mind, which is 4.7 million sensitivity and not 4.5. I'm just trying to – maybe I'm reading too much into that. I'm just curious about the numbers behind this guidance. If I now take the $4.7 million, which is a guidance of revenue generation over an eight-month period, so starting from the beginning of May until the end of the year, and I annualize it and I calculate a margin, I actually will end up with investment fee margins likely above $7. And conversely, if I had done the same with the 4.5, I would have ended up with margin of around 67. So we moved from what it looked like a lower margin going forward to actually a slight improvement now. So just above 70 bps quarter, you were just below that. So sorry for this detail. I just want to ask again whether this is the right way of looking at it. And within that, the explicit reference to a double-digit growth in investment revenues. But if I look at these 4.7 you just gave us, are you still confident that actually you can grow investment revenues by double digits this year, assuming a decent level of stability in markets? So that's my first question. The second question is on deposit flows. In the past, you mentioned that your clients – had about 5 billion of bonds that were expected to mature in 2025. And I think in the past you mentioned that a good chunk of that was expected to mature in the first half of the year. Now we are in May and so far deposit flows have been, on the net level at least, have been pretty small. So does this imply that we should see a material uptick in deposit flows in May and in June as well? And then finally, thanks for the color on ETF. I mean, impressive market share data. You are clearly ahead of most of your peers when it comes to fee on top and fee only propositions and so forth. And it's quite impressive to see this uptick in ETFs. I was just keen to hear your thoughts on is also potentially a risk of cannibalizing some of the traditional business. And maybe perhaps, can you give us some color on what proportion of the ETFs that are being bought are actually falling under a broader advice relationship, and therefore they do generate ongoing fees. Thank you.

So coming back to the yes, so regarding the reason why we made this small adjustment because we realized that giving – because we – Probably we made a mistake giving a random number. So we have underestimated that because the difference between 4.5, 4.7 is so small that, but clearly, then we realized that was making the difference between stable margins and slightly decreasing margins. And this probably has caused some little bit of concern, but the right number is, is 4.7 million. And so, yes, so the numbers you put together are the right ones. And this is consistent with the guidance we gave before that we, at the end of the story, we expect the margins on the investing business being at least stable. So it's And so, regarding the possibility to get still the low double-digit investing, yes, clearly. The only reason why we stopped on giving such a precise guidance, because there is a component that we cannot control that is the market effect. Clearly, if we are progressing back again in a more stable environment, so we market start keeping on recovering, yes, we think that this is achievable, yes. Regarding the 5 billion Govis expected to match, yes. Typically, from a seasonal point of view, to predict precisely the timing of the evolution of deposits, it's not always so easy because it can be impacted by unexpected events like big market swings so the example has been at the beginning of the year in January in which we had the unexpected big jump in rates that has caused a big move by clients on the platform but from a seasonal point of view yes there is a tendency of building up more deposits going towards the the year-end. And ETFs, so ETFs, no, we don't see any potential risk of cannibalizing traditional asset and domain. So the risk is there if you are ignoring what's going on. Because in any case, this is a big tide from which you cannot ignore what's going on. So, ETS are going to grow in any case. So, you have to decide which kind of approach you want to take. Or, you can surf the tide, as PNIC is doing. So, we are creating a great environment for clients and new clients for using ETS. And this clearly is explaining why there is, we have as such, an incredible market share of the ETFs market in Italy. Or you can decide to try to resist and try to block, to try to insulate your clients by the ETFs world, but it doesn't work this way. Because in any case, if, for example, you are making the life for your clients difficult in getting ETFs, this is going to accelerate the process of these clients moving direction of a player like we are because in any case this is a gigantic trend is underway and in any case atfs are becoming an absolutely a key component in the uh in the advisory platforms so the platforms in which the client the clients are paying an explicit fee and fineco is by far the dominant player in italy because we started on offering advisory platform with clients paying an explicit fee in 2017. So clearly, for us, it's completely different in terms of margins because we don't care if the clients decide to have a portfolio made exclusively by ITS or active managed funds or something else because at the end of the story, our margins are represented by the explicit fees paid by the client. So for us, the ETFs are a gigantic opportunity. Absolutely, it's not ending any keys on average. What they put together, what is the overall revenues generated by the advisory platforms, these are perfectly aligned with the average profitability of our asset under management business.

Thomas, just a quick follow-up on two things. So on deposits, can you remind us what amount of BTP or bonds is expected to mature over the next two months from clients? If you can disclose that it was $5 billion for the year, if you can just give us an idea of how much is maturing in May and June. And on the ETF, can you just specify what proportion of the ETF IUC advice relationship?

So the percentage of ETFs that they are moving under in the asset under management platforms is 30%. And if you don't mind, now more or less is 1.5 billion of euros by the end of the year.

No, excuse me.

So in the second quarter, 1.5 billion.

Yes.

Okay. So 1.5 billion.

1.5 billion.

Yes.

The next question is from Domenico Santoro, HSBC.

Please go ahead.

Hi, good morning. A couple of questions. First of all, on the NII side, if we assume that rates bottom out in the second quarter around 2%, shall we expect after another drop, probably in the second quarter, NII as well to bottom out in a way? or there might be other minus that might drag on over the next quarter. So I can see that the landing book keeps shrinking, and this is a bit of a marginal negative on the NII evolution. And then shall we expect NII from the third quarter to follow the evolution of deposits? I just wonder whether you know, the second quarter is raised, then they stay stable, and I will trust, and then from there, we start again. The other question that I have is on brokerage, because, I mean, the numbers, they're pretty impressive, and I guess the market is a little bit, you know, ignoring the fact that revenues in this division, they keep trending up. I know that it's difficult, but it could be very useful for us to understand whether the 15 million law that you were mentioning in the past, it might have become now 16, 19, 20, whatever, any quantitative sort of comment here, it will be extremely useful. And then about the shareholders remuneration, I listened to your comments before that at a point you would make a decision depending on the way deposit behave and the way, of course, the leverage ratio will move, when this decision will take place and how shall we expect, in a way, the potential share buyback to be shaped up? Because I thought that was quite a priority for you, you know, to please, in a way, investors that are, you know, that have been very positive on your story. Thank you.

So let me start by the NII. So it's based on the evolution of the implied forward rate curve. And based on the expectation we have on the evolution of deposits, that as we see, we expect it to stay strong going forward and so on. It's reasonable to expect the NII bottoming out by the year end. And then by the beginning of next year, starting on growing again. So this is the evidence we have. So it's, regarding brokerage, yes, the numbers are really impressive. So clearly the floor now, but if you look to our numbers, the evolution of the, so the graphs and so on, is pretty evident that the floor is probably higher than $15 million. And we expect that this is keeping on going more and more for all the considerations we made at the beginning of our conversation. Because there is a combination of, there is a clear and quite impressive increase of market share by the bank. The continuously building up of assets under custody is creating the fuel not just for the investment business, but also for the brokerage business. And finally, we have to remind that the Italian market is still massively under-penetrated. Frequently, we are compared to the Nordic platforms and for example, in the case of the Nordics, the market penetration, so the percentage of participation, the level of participation by clients direct to the market is much higher than we have in Italy. So Italy is remaining an absolutely incredible market for the brokerage. I want to add also, we forgot to mention that we started officially the project for launching the for opening our platform to the crypto world. And so we are working on that. And we think that probably going throughout the beginning of next year, we are going to be ready with an extremely robust structural proposal on the crypto world that is clearly emerging as a market of interest for clients. And also these are clearly going to bring additional fuel to the brokerage business going forward. Regarding the shareholders remuneration, yes, clearly we are not rushing in moving the direction of giving back to the market the excess of capital for a very simple reason. We are a growth company. We are different by traditional banks. So we prefer to wait to be absolutely sure of the growth trajectory of the bank, particularly on deposits, before taking a decision in that direction. What we can say is that as soon as possible, we are going to have a picture that is decently clear on the direction that is going to emerge, that there is a clear excess of capital that we don't need. We are going to be extremely fast moving direction of giving back to the market. But again, Finneco is not a traditional bank. It's a growth company, and so we are on the fast lane of growth. The acceleration we are experiencing in terms of acquisition of clients next year is absolutely impressive, and so we think that it makes sense that we take our time.

All right. Thank you.

The next question is from Giovanni Razzoli, Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.

Good morning, good afternoon to everybody. Two questions, actually three questions on my side. One is again on the launch and the emphasis that you are putting on activity F. If I'm not mistaken, you have just launched an activity F on S&P 500. If you can share with us what is the pricing schedule of this product and how does this compare with the more plain vanilla ETF or also with the comparable farm products. You said during the call that you expect the outlook for investment margins to remain unchanged or even improve. I was wondering what is the contribution of this new product. And again, on ETF, I was wondering whether, I mean, clearly, if I'm not mistaken, but correct me if I'm wrong, on ETF, there is a very unfavorable fiscal treatment for Italian residents. I was wondering whether there is a way to further incentivize, if I'm not wrong, the further penetration of this product also via fiscal optimization or whether there is still a discussion about the harmonization of this product if you are sponsoring this. And the last question is on the sensitivity that you have provided in terms of growth of the stock of AUM. for let's say rounded it five million euros of fees on since may for one billion euros of increasing the stock of a um shall i take this one billion euro grow as a you know on the same period of time so if you can clarify this and if you can provide the same sensitivity also for the deposits thank you so on the uh

Yes, we are extremely, we are incredibly bullish on what's going on in the ETF world, because differently by the most part of banks and the other players, we are observing what's going on, because being the point of reference of the market, we are really in the position to understand what's going on there. And what's going on there is absolutely incredible, impressive, and we expect this is having an starting on having a significant impact on the industry quite soon. And regarding the, so the active NTFs just launched by Finnecos Management are characterized by more, let me say, more sophisticated because they're introducing some algorithmics that they are making, for example, the NTFs more efficient and so on but probably that if you are interested Giovanni the best way if we can arrange and but this is the same story for everybody that is attending the conference so we can arrange and a little bit more specific meeting with our colleagues in Dublin that can give you a better color on what does it mean, what is the risk related on the active ETFs. Just for spending a few words on the active ETFs, this is going to represent the other absolutely incredible revolution that we are going to have on the market. Because going forward, progressively, active ETFs are going to replace are going to take the place of the traditional funds for a very simple reason. Just try to imagine the same portfolio manager with the same strategy. From the client's point of view, it's much more efficient to buy the same strategy throughout an active ETF than a traditional mutual fund because you can trade these continuously is in terms of you can have, if you are buying and selling, you can take in real time the price. Everything related to custodian administration is much less complex. So this is the new world that is coming. It's clear, which is the point of attention. The activity has been characterized by they have lower margins than the traditional mutual funds. So active ETFs can work very well for the direct clients, and this is going to be the case, or for the clients that they are interested in using advisory platforms. And so this is the reason why for us it's absolutely key to move there. But in any case, traditional active ETFs, they are going to reshape completely and the industry. Regarding the outlook on investing margins, we know we are not embedding there still any significant contribution by what we were describing eight years. This is a developing story that we think that there is going to be a very interesting story that is going to bring some interesting contribution in a relatively short period of time, but we prefer to give a guidance that is not considering this yet because there is a developing story. But for sure, ETFs are expected to start becoming a contributor in the investing business. Regarding the So the favorable fiscal treatments on ETS for Italian rice, but the ETS, they don't have a different, their fiscal treatment is aligned with the fiscal treatments of the other instruments. I don't know if I got, or I'm missing something in your questions. If you can help me in, because we don't see any, Any difference on the fiscal treatment on ETFs? Giovanni, I'm not sure that I got it.

I was referring to the fact that on a pure custodian account, capital gains and capital losses on ETFs sometimes cannot be compensated. Is my understanding correct?

This is part of everything that is related to the compensation of the gain and loss. This is, again, another developing story. But at the moment, ETS are treated as, but they're not the biggest expert there, but they are treated more or less as the asset under managed, but they cannot be probably compensated with the asset under managed. Take my words cautiously because I'm not a big expert. And we can return to you with more precisely later on. And sensitivity, yes, the sensitivity is clearly calculated starting by the May the 1st. Clearly, the more we progress and the lower is going to be the sensitivity going towards the year end. And so we have that. it's not difficult to adjust the sensitivity considering the time passing. And on deposits, no, we are not calculating and communicating sensitivities on deposits because there isn't too much still volatility in the movement of rates and so on, to some extent it's a little bit easier giving a sensitivity on the asset under management than on the deposits.

Thank you.

In any case, our CFO is suggesting to us that, is suggesting to me that there is no compensation of the means.

We've got a link from APS.

with the asset under management. So you can compensate gain and losses between ETFs and the traditional asset under management products.

The next question is from Gianluca Ferrari, Mediobanca. Please go ahead.

Yes, hi, good afternoon. Only two questions left for me. The first one is, two days ago, one of your competitors launched a new project for targeting high net worth individuals with roughly speaking more than 10 million euros. Are you planning to have a specific service model for these kind of clients? The second one, if I recall properly, last conference call you mentioned a new private market offer in the second part of the year. Can you remind us the timing and potentially also the margins on those products? Thank you.

So regarding the announcement of the of launching a project for private banking clients. We don't need to launch a specific project there because at the moment Finic is offering everything that is all the most relevant solutions that are of the most interest for the private banking clients. In the case that we think that Also, the numbers are showing this very clearly because the segment in which we are going the most is the private banking segment. So the clients with more than 500,000 euros of assets. Fineco is growing nearly four times faster than the industry. And the reason is pretty simple because at the end of the story, the rich clients, what they want to get is services that are fair, transparent and efficient. And Finneco, as we were explaining, is the only one player that is able to offer all these concepts all together. And clearly there is other components like assisting the clients in the generation of passage, in the real estate, that there are components that we are offering to clients and so on. but we don't need to launch a specific project for private banking clients because the positioning of Fininco is the best possible for capturing these clients because I'm sorry if I'm a little bit repeating myself but when we are considering this absolutely incredible trend that is emerging that is the clients looking for fairness, transparency, and convenience. The two segments that are the most interested in moving there are the young generation, but particularly the rich clients. And Fineco is by far the best position of player for capturing this. And the timing of private market offer, we think probably in the second half of the year, we are going to be up and running with an offer there. And on the margins, sorry, but we can, if you don't mind, we can return to you later on with a precise indication of the margins of this private market business.

The next question is from Alberto Villa in Termonte.

Please go ahead.

Good afternoon. A couple from my side as well. Going back to investing and ETFs and your comments during the call and your answers, you're expecting this business really to boom in the future. So I was wondering... a few years, five years down the road, how do you think this will be represented in our AUM? So maybe starting from the end of 2024, if you can give us a picture of how much of the AUM were related to passive and active ATFs and eventually how do you think this will evolve in the future? And just this also to understand the the evolution of the margins from the 70 basis points you are planning right now, how that can evolve in the future given these moving parts. And secondly, on the advanced advisory stock, you now are at around $34-35 billion. how much this is impacting in terms of Euro millions you are cashing in in 2024, how much that was related to advanced advisory fees component. And the final one is on provisions, if you can give us a guidance for 2025. Thank you.

So on what we can expect to happen on investing related to ETFs, active and passive, the right question is not what is going to represent for us, but what is going to represent for the industry. Because what is really, the market is underestimating that this is a massive, gigantic wave that is going to change completely the structure of the industry. So this is the real point. We are not pitting in our, because for us, when we are looking to the ETFs, there are two elements that for us are relevant. The first one is their presence in the advisory platforms. And clearly, as we say, we are by far the most advanced players. So we expect the ETFs to keep on playing a bigger and bigger role there. But as we said, this is completely indifferent in terms of margin evolution. And the second one is the volume effect. Because clearly, as we explained, we have good reasons to think that going forward, we are going to start on extracting additional revenues. by the ETF stocks we have. But again, this is not something that is for everybody. This is a privilege that we're going to have considering the dimension of our platform. Because it's clear that when you are 70% of the market, clearly you have a pricing power that is completely different if you are a marginal player. So the two components that we can expect to to come in place going forward is, again, the ETFs playing in a bigger and bigger roles in the advisory platforms for the reasons we were explaining. And second, we expect a progressive contribution by this component that at the moment is accounted in the asset under custody. that the market is considering not as particularly appealing, but as we discussed before. So what we, our message that considering the absolutely dominant position we have, progressively we are going to start on extracting additional revenues by this asset under custody. And this is the reason why we are extremely, but in any case, ETFs are there, are going to stay and are going to reshape in a quite significant way the industry.

If I may, Alessandro, sorry to interrupt you. Just to understand, your own ETF compared to someone that buys a third-party ETF on the platform, how does that change the picture for you in terms of profitability?

This is clearly another very important direction, but again, we are not reinventing the wheel, because if we look to the U.S. experience, for example, there is the most, the first example that is coming to my mind is the evolution that has been experienced by a player like Charles Schwab in the U.S. Charles Schwab, they started clearly offering ETFs, then progressively they build up their own offer, clearly, and within, and progressively, then a large component of the ETFs used by their clients were presented by ETFs issued by them. So, this is a third leg that is going to be built up progressively. This is the reason why Finacoset management is becoming very active in issuing and listing its own ETFs. So, yes, we, so, thank you for So the ETFs are going to play a very important role. One, very basic, because what is both directed by the client, they're going to start progressively on producing recurring fees and so on. Second, these are going to represent more and more the very important components of the building blocks of our advisory solutions. Clearly, considering the dominance we have on the market there, we are going to be in the position progressively of issuing and proposing our own ETFs. And clearly, this is going to make the business even more profitable. ETFs, they are characterized by a structure of profitability that is definitely above just the pure So, yes, we think that it's a quite significant change in the structure of the industry. On the advanced advisory stock, how much is impacting that? What do you mean exactly, Alberto?

No, I was wondering how much you are monetizing these advanced advisory services right now.

So you are interested in the dimension of the revenues generated by the debt? Yes. By the debt? I don't know. I have to ask to my colleagues. We have to return later. I have not these numbers on my... Okay. Yes. provisions for 2025? I don't know, Lorena, if you want to.

Yes, thank you. Good morning to everybody. We confirm what we already said in the previous call. So for 2025, we are taking a conservative approach, and we consider in our forecast 25 million. considering also potential extraordinary contribution to the Fund Interventario, so deposit guarantee scheme, in case of increase of guarantee deposits. Consider that in addition, starting from 2024, the Insurance Resolution Fund started to ask a contribution for insurance distributors like Finneco. The contribution is equal to 0.1 per thousand of the technical reserve of the life insurance stock at the end of the previous year. And so considering the usual provision that could be estimated around 15, 17 million of euros and the potential contribution to deposit guarantee scheme, in our forecast we are considering 25 million.

Okay, thank you very much.

The next question is from Christiana Holstein, BOA. Please go ahead.

Thank you for taking my questions. I just have three of them. Firstly, on new customers, I was just wondering where they're generally being won from. Are they from other competitors or they generally customers who are brand new to investing in brokerage? And then what segments of products do you see the new client net sales primarily within? Secondly, on brokerage, you previously highlighted tailwinds from increased demand for offshore and particularly US trading, which is a higher margin product. I was just wondering if you're still seeing demand here or has this reduced with the recent volatilities? And then finally, in the presentation, I can see that you flagged that you have the green light by the Italian Tax Authority to assess opportunities abroad. I was just wondering if you could give some more detail around timeline, revenue opportunity, and if there's any change to the strategy, which I believe was to expand into Germany. Thank you.

So regarding the new customers, they are coming nearly 100% from traditional banks. So because we... is gaining market share from traditional banks. So this is the... And they are coming for... So there is the entrance gate. The main entrance gate represented by the banking, because we have to remind that Fineco is offering an absolutely unique and incredible experience to clients on transactional banking. And also... everything related to brokerage slash asset under custody is emerging as a gigantic, is a quite significant entrance gate for the clients. Because typically, the asset under management is accounting more in terms of assets than number of clients. But if we look to the number of clients, clearly the two main entrance gates is the transactional banking and everything related to brokerage asset under custody. Brokerage, trend of quiet trading with US stocks, we didn't see any significant change related to what's going on on the market. In the contrary, we are observing a little bit even more an uptick on the interest by clients on trading on US stocks. But this makes sense considering that the local market is not offering such a great opportunity for trading to our clients. So by definition, the US market is the main point, is remaining the main point of interest by the clients. Regarding the business abroad, yes. We received the official green light by the Italian fiscal authority. And so now we are on the way for preparing a plan for starting on offering our services abroad. And we are going to keep you updated in the next future on the point. But yes, now the... now everything is clear, the green light, we got the green light, so we can progress there.

Thank you. The next question is from Ian White, Autonomous Research. Please go ahead. Mr. White, your line is open. Maybe you are on mute. Mr. White, we cannot hear you. Please check your microphone, please. The next question is from Marco Nicolai Jeffries.

Please go ahead.

Hello, thanks for the presentation. So if you look at the number of customers, so you grew by more than 100,000 customers compared to last April, so April 24. 110,000 customers, if I'm not wrong. So is this something that can be sustained also for the future? And what is the role of these 5, 10 million marketing expenses in this client's growth? Thank you.

So our expectations in terms of client growth that we think that we have room for a further accelerating there. So it's absolutely sustainable. And we see room for accelerating even more. So the marketing expenses are clearly important, but they can play a role if, on the other hand, you have the right proposal. Because the best way, if you want to waste your money, is to spend a lot in marketing without having the right position and the right proposal. So what is absolutely, what is the real reason of this accelerated growth that Fineco is offering exactly what is in the biggest demand by the market right now. I was mentioning the structural change in terms that is underway by the various clients. So if you look to this, of this kind of needs by the clients, there is nobody else excluding the neo-banks and neo-brokers that they're really giving an option to the clients. So if a client in Italy is really interested in getting fair, transparent, efficient services by a decently large player, there is no other place in which you can go than Infineco. And clearly, this, coupled together with an and quite effective and important marketing budget clearly is the perfect solution. This is the reason why, considering that we think that we want to have the possibility to spend even more because the situation, the landscape is emerging as incredibly favorable for our growth.

Okay, so let's say... more than 110,000 customers incremental per year in 25, which is happening already, and also 26, 27 in the following years.

Yes, yes, makes sense, makes sense.

Thank you.

The next question is from Ian White, Autonomous Research. Please go ahead.

Hi there. Hopefully you can hear me this time. Three questions from my side, please. First up, just wondered to hear your thoughts around considerations around increasing prices to clients with respect to assets under custody or brokerage. I think either a custody or account fee or higher trading charges for brokerage only clients. It just seems like your brokerage offering is getting a lot of traction. It's very popular. Just wondered if that would lead to any considerations around pricing power. Secondly, could you just clarify for us, what is the current value of ETFs within AUC? I think you said earlier that 30% of ETFs are within AUC. advisory agreements, but how much is being reported, please, under AUC in nominal terms? And just finally, you mentioned earlier potential change to agreements with ETF providers. Could you just say a little bit more about that? I wondered if you're referring there to retaining a greater share of management fees on third-party ETFs, or could this also consider things like lower exchange fees or transactional charges that might impact the AUC side too. Thanks very much.

So we are not considering any price increase to the clients on assets under custody in brokerage because we think this is in any case our proposal is extremely very well balanced and because we are characterized by an absolutely decent profitability. So, no, we are not considering to charge more to the clients. And so, no. On the overall amount, so on the ETS, out of the assets under custody...

So at the end of the first quarter, 19%.

So at the end of the last quarter, the ETS were representing more or less 20% of the overall asset under custody. But what is important is the speed at which they are growing. And in any case, at the moment... So... So regarding the agreement to ATS providers, at the moment, the most part of the ETFs on the platforms are characterized by zero commissions to clients. So there are places and arrangements with the ATS providers only for compensating these zero commissions. But what we are now considering is the possibility to to get more, considering the dimension of the business, the pricing power we have. And clearly it is, but it's not anything particularly strange because usually in the financial world, so if you are a platform, if you are controlling the clients, you are taking care of the clients, you are sustaining all the costs for running the clients and so on, It's normal, for example, in the world of the mutual funds, it's normal that there is an interesting component of the management fees that they are remaining in the pocket of, let me say, the distributors, the platforms. In the ETFs world, this is not still the case, but it's going to become more and more the concept, clearly not just for everybody, but with the platforms that you are really representing an important component of the market. So this is what we expect to happen going forward.

Understood. Thank you very much.

The next question is from Enrico Bolzoni, JP Morgan. Please go ahead.

To wrap on this question from my colleague, is he actually... to capture a portion of the ETF cost? Because the fact that there would be a bit like introducing a rebate on an ETF, as we speak, typically don't have any. So just, can you just clarify, is that actually something allowed?

On the technicality, clearly it's a little bit too early. to discuss about this. But yes, technically speaking, this is possible. Yes.

Thank you. And another very short follow-up. You mentioned about crypto launching, a new initiative in crypto early next year. Can you just remind us, is this going to be derivatives on crypto, ETFs on crypto, or you're actually thinking about the actual currencies?

It's going to be spot physical crypto, yes. What is that? Because now is the right timing because the dimension of the market in Italy, based on our estimates, I'm asking to my colleagues, which is the total, the moment that... We have now in Italy 2.4 millions of clients, not us, but overall in Italy there are 2.4 millions of clients that they own physical crypto. And we've the total assets for more than $3 billion. So now we can say that it's a market that is ready to be addressed. And what is very important to underline that based on, because clearly we made quite a significant study on the market and so on, that what is the most desired by the client is that the possibility to interact with with a platform managed by an established bank. So this is that. And what is important is that we are monitoring also what the clients are doing. Many of these clients are our clients for other reasons. And so clearly, as soon as we are going to be able to launch, to be After running, this is going to generate immediately an interesting amount of commissions.

Thanks.

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Excuse me, just because now this info made me a clarification. So coming back to the questions by Jan. So the total stock is 20%, but if we look to the net sales, the inflows, the new net inflows on assets under custody is nearly 40%. So this is the reason why this is a quite impressive trend that is underway.

Mr. Foti, there are no more questions registered at this time. I turn the conference back to you for any closing remarks.

No, thank you for attending our conference. And as usual, we are available for any additional comments, deep dive, in the numbers, in the concepts that we discussed together. And so thank you again and talk to you soon.