Gerresheimer AG

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our presentation of our preliminary Q3 2025 results. With us today are our CEO, Dietmar Siemsen, and our new CFO, Wolf Lehmann, who will lead you through our Q3 development and the financials. The slide deck is available on our website. At the end of the presentation, we will be available for Q&As. But now, let's start, and I hand over to Dietmar Siemsen. Dietmar?

Yeah, thank you, Peter. Thank you, Guido, and welcome, everybody, and thank you for joining us for this call. Yeah, you have all seen the news, and they are not positive. We unfortunately had to revise our guidance for 2025. Yeah, Q3 came in lower than expected. The organic revenues were 1.2% below the previous year's quarter, and the adjusted EBITDA was 9.4% below. The adjusted EBDR margin was 18.8 and thus 1.7% lower than in the previous year's period. We won't be able to compensate this until the end of the year, even though we expect Q4 to be stronger than the third quarter. And we did not expect this development. It is disappointing to say at least and we clearly have to increase our measures to get back on track. We will, and also Wolf will elaborate on this later. Our performance in the first nine months of this financial year is clearly below our expectations, and we can't sugarcoat this. Yes, there have been a number of market, there have been a number of market influences, but the development in total is disappointing. On a reported base, Our revenues grew in the first nine months by 14.6%. Our EBITDA grew by 7.2%. Both increases due to the first time consolidation of Borgioli Pharma. On an organic basis, however, revenues declined by 1.8% and adjusted EBITDA by 7.5% compared to the previous years pro forma figures. We had expected An earlier market recovery of the cosmetic and also the oral liquid market. Instead, the weakness of the markets prevailed. Overall, operative performance in Q3 lagged clearly behind. On a positive note, our focus on being more selective with Carpex is beginning to pay off. We recorded positive free cash flow of 21 million euros in the third quarter. and we expect a stronger fourth quarter in comparison to Q3 2025 with the ramp up of new lines for drug delivery systems. The disappointing operative performance in the first nine months and Q3 is particular or in particular does not change the strategic rationale behind our growth investments or the Bomioli Pharma acquisition. We are still convinced that broadening our portfolio with new high-value solutions, particularly for the growing biologic market, has been the right strategic decision. The Bomioli Pharma acquisition brought Gerritshammer to a new level in terms of revenues and EBITDA and is strengthening our market position. It was also a prerequisite for building a strong multi-class powerhouse and being able to take the next steps to separate it and initiate a sales process afterwards. But looking at the pure numbers, we understand we need to act, and we already have, by initiating measures to reduce costs and improve our performance, as you can see from our restructuring costs in our third quarter report. We will leave no stone unturned to recover our margins and get back on a profitable growth path. With this, I will now hand over to our new CFO, Wolf Lehmann, for a closer look on our financials. Wolf.

Thank you, Dietmar. Following up on the revenue and EBITDA driver year over year on Q3, more detail. We show the numbers in the prior year perform adjusted for the Bomiolo Pharma acquisition. Numbers are not adjusted for FX. On revenue left side, Year over year, the anticipated market recovery after the first half and growth did not happen. Instead, net, we're down 18 million from 579 to 561 million, with a mixed picture between the segments. Plastics and devices slightly up 3 million, and primary packaging glass down 20 million. Let me turn to the segments. Within plastics and devices, net up 3 million is a mixed bag. Medical devices, we grew around 13 million. Slower growth, and not as much as we would have liked, but at least initial growth in devices such as autoinjectors. This is partly offset through plastics packaging down 5 million, driven by continued less oral liquid containment demand. In addition, negative 6 million from foreign exchange, mainly the unfavorable U.S. dollar to euro exchange rates impacting our U.S. business. On the primary packaging glass segment, TPG side, revenue is down 20 million, mainly driven by around 13 million decline in molded glass, with again disappointing weak cosmetic and oral liquid markets. also around 2 million decline in tubular class here standard products are down yet higher value products up finally also negative around 5 million from foreign exchange again mainly us dollar to euro exchange on ebitda in the middle chart year over year ebitda is down 14 million from 117 to 103. now EBITDA down 14 million on a revenue down 18 million obviously is a high unfavorable fall through. Let me explain the main drivers. On plastics and devices, P&D, EBITDA is down 7 million on sales up 3 million. Main impacts are medical devices did have growth in revenue up 13 million as explained. But EBITDA is down 4 million, since especially our new assets, like at our Peachtree site in the US, are partly up, partly still in ramp up, but underutilized or insufficiently loaded to cover all the additional costs as we invested ahead of demand. Plastics packaging is down 1 million year over year, which is simply less volume falling through. The rest is some impact from FX of around negative 1 million. Turning to EBITDA primary packaging glass. EBITDA is down 8 million on sales down 20 million. Also in PPG, the sales to EBITDA fall through dynamics vary. Molded glass is down 9 million in EBITDA on 30 million less sales, a high fall through. This is A, the volume effect, but also B, our side at lower, Germany, coming back into production after the significant furnace renewal and step-by-step gaining back productivity. Tubular class shows a very different picture. As on lower sales, we get around 2 million higher EBITDA. Amongst others, our focus on high-value product growth comes through. On adjusted earnings per share, on the right-hand side, This will be easier to follow, quite frankly, when we publish the full and final financials tomorrow, Friday morning. Still already as a heads up, the decline from 1 euro 20 to 77 cents adjusted EBITDA is negatively impacted by the EBITDA falling through after taxes to EPS. And in addition, higher depreciation and certainly higher interest expense, mainly stemming from the financing of the Bongioli Pharma acquisitions. This explained the main drivers in third quarter, very similar dynamics are impacting our nine months results year-over-year. Please turn to the next page, page seven. Overall revenue is down year-over-year by 47 million, 17 to eight to 168 million euros. EBITDA is down 27 million, 341 to 314 euros. So it's overall, a high fall through of 27 million EBITDA versus 47 revenue. In the interest of time, I'll focus on the fall through sales to EBITDA. Plastics and devices, similar to Q3, positive sales growth on the left of 50 million, yet a negative year over year EBITDA growth of 18. Medical devices with sales up 36, driven by our growth projects, example given in pens and auto-injectors, yet delivering no EBITDA growth, yet as new assets are still underutilized. Plastics packaging sales down 12 million year-over-year due to the mentioned oil and liquids market downside. This is falling through to EBITDA with a high around 8 million impact. These partly highly automated plants producing our high-value plastics packaging parts are sensitive to a suboptimal capacity loading level. On primary packaging glass, PPG, molded glass is as explained for third quarter, mostly sales decline of 44 million from cosmetics or liquids, et cetera, falling through at a to be expected around 11 million EBITDA. Tubular glass, the sales degrees of 11 million does not show up in EBITDA mostly due to less standard and more high value growth focus, like ready to fill vials. On the right, adjusted earnings per share. Similar, we can explain more on Friday, tomorrow, after providing the final and closing financials. Some heads up again, as in Q3, EBITDA decline falls through after tax and impact from higher depreciation and interest, mainly driven by the Borneoli Pharma acquisition. In summary, before we talk guidance, to the three main issues one more market decline and continued longer market softness softness with those expectations and two growth projects starting to deliver but clearly slower and this leads to three sub-optimal capacity utilization levels with new assets post or still in the middle of ramp up and similar post renewal of old assets like the glass furnace renewal mentioned And those issues do clearly impact profitability levels. We first talk guidance on the next page, and then we share some thoughts on initiatives to deal with issues. Guidance. Our revised guidance is clearly impacted by the much lower than expected Q3. The guidance is done on an organic growth level, meaning prior year performer, including Bonioli Pharma, and normalized for foreign exchange. Our last or old guidance is from July. We estimated flat 0% to 2% growth for the full year, around 20% margin, and a low double-digit decline adjusted EPS. Thus, on the lower end, no growth versus our 2.4 billion sales in 2024, or midpoint 1% equal to around 24 million growth year over year. This was after delivering a first half of around 25 million decline year over year. So as we estimated and targeted against the midpoint offsetting 25 million year over year first half decline with 50 million growths in the second half to yield net 1% growth for the full year midpoint. To yield the midpoint requiring both, A, market demand recovering cosmetic on the glass side or liquid both on the glass and plastic side, and B, growth projects, new assets being loaded with demand quickly. Thus midpoint, we expected round numbers, 50 million second half growth roughly half and half, 25 million Q3 year over year and 25 million in Q4 year over year to come out at the midpoint. Now we have one more quarter behind us, the third quarter. And in hindsight, we overestimated both the market recovery and also ramping up and loading our new asset with customer demand. So looking at Q3, Q3 did not bring around 25 million growth year-over-year, but rather close to 10 million decline year-over-year. Thus, round numbers, we are against the midpoint last guidance around 35 million behind, down 10 versus expected up 25 million. So our last guidance on revenue, take the slower growth into consideration. The midpoint, or negative 3%, is around 70 million year-over-year decline. Half of this already happened and the other portion we estimate in Q4, assuming very little recovery on the market side and growth projects delivering but clearly slower. Or another triangulation we can provide is the midpoint or negative 3% year-over-year on 2.4 billion sales requires fourth quarter to come in around roughly 50 million higher versus the last quarter versus Q3. Thus around 50 million quarter over quarter growth. Again, this assuming very little market recovery and slower progress on the growth projects. And maybe also a touch of more conservative planning still to be seen. On adjusted EBITDA guidance, the first nine months we are at 18.8% adjusted EBITDA margin. We are estimating to be around 18 and a half to 19%, so very similar to the current profitability levels. On adjusted earnings per share, it is handing down the EBITDA guidance adjustment post taxes to earnings per share, which gets us rather into the mid double digit decline versus low double digit So before I turn to our last initiatives or latest initiatives to counteract some of the issues we face, please note that midterm guidance, we are not providing any new midterm guidance for 2026 and beyond as we are still in the middle of our budget planning for next year, for 2026. So it does not make sense to cover midterm guidance right now. Let's go to the next page, please, and cover leadership team changes to accelerate our initiatives. Starting from the right, Norbert Topp joined us in August. He is in charge of carving out the combined molded glass operations. Gerritsheimer Legacy and Bomioli Pharma integrating the two businesses and carving it out. Consequently, we would like to sell molded glass. Moldy glass will be a new segment within Gerritsheimer. We take the opportunity and we plan to transfer to a new segmentation for the start of the new year. Achim Schalk joins us in November and will play a vital role in this new segmentation. We just went through the financials still in the old segmentation, yet we know many of you brought forward to take the opportunity towards a revised segmentation. So as we're working on this for the start of our new year from 1st of December onwards. Finally, myself as new CFO, next to finance, I can help to accelerate our transformation, addressing key issues mentioned around growth, cost, as well as cash when explaining our financial results. In operational excellence, example given with focus, focuses on A, sourcing efficiently, where we rather have a decentralized approach currently And B, cost of non-quality, where we still have quite some room against best in class. In commercial excellence, A, we drive price reader and segment the portfolio thoroughly by customer, product, region to improve profitability. B, we chase volume to fill existing capacity to improve utilization. Preferring footprint consolidation, we drive a classic grow, fix, close, or sell approach. We also consider external help, both particularly in commercial and sourcing to start with. Timing wise, this is not just a quarter or two. This will be a focus for us for the next two years at least to start with to improve our run rate step by step. Organizationally, we implement a transformation office reporting to the CFO, myself, to have a focal point and board level and resolve bottlenecks. Also, we ensure to approach the highest paybacks first. Thank you. Back to Dietmar.

Yeah, thank you so much, Wolf. A rough start for you, but I think we are driving the right initiatives as we speak. So before we open our round for new or for your questions, let me summarize the key takeaways one more time. Q3 and the first nine months were clearly below our expectations. We expect a stronger Q4 in particular due to ramp-ups of new production lines for drug delivery systems, yet this will not fully compensate for the development in the 2025 financial year to date. We therefore needed to revise our guidance and expect an organic revenue decline between minus 4 and minus 2% and an adjusted EBITDA margin around 18.5 to 19%. The adjusted earnings per share will decrease by a mid-double-digit percentage. We will have a new leadership team in place going forward, with Wolf Lehmann as our new CFO and Achim Schalk as a new member of the management board starting November. Hans-Norbert Topp now heads up the business unit Molder Glass and drives the separation forward. Starting with the 2026 financial year, we will implement a new segmentation with Molder Glass being a separate And most importantly, we take severe actions. We are now implementing a comprehensive transformation program with a transformation office driving all measures and reporting directly to the CFO. With this, I hand back to Tito.

Thank you very much, Wolf. Thank you very much, Dietmar. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press the blue Q&A button in the webcast and follow the instructions. You will see a confirmation that you have entered the queue. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press cancel. You may ask your question when your name is being announced and you are live. The first question comes from Ed Hall, Stifel. Ed, the line is open.

By sort of any loss of market share to SGD Pharma, any dual source dynamics you see in the market and how this would persist?

We haven't understood part of your question. Can you repeat that, please? The initial part.

Thank you. Sorry, can you hear that better now? Yes, very good. Perfect. Sorry about that. So just first question, could you quantify any loss of market share that you see to SGD Pharma or other competitors, any dual source dynamics that are happening in the market and how they should persist into next year? Second question would be on sort of what's caused the positive free cash flow from a weaker EBDA. Is there any one-offs in here that have caused this and then finally just on the margin guide um 18 and a half to 19 q4 seasonably higher than sort of q3 so i was wondering what's caused this range and what's the downside risks to ebda and q4 thank you market share i think we are pretty confident that the market is down at present but this

other player.

Great. And then on cash flow, yes, the cash flow in the third quarter was positive, about 21 million. There's no one-offs in there. This resulted in a leverage of 4.15. I think it's important to stress that we are fully compliant with our debt covenants and referring guidance potential downside in the fourth quarter to EBITDA. I think that's why we provide the range. We feel comfortable in that range as explained. EBITDA or EBITDA margin, as I mentioned, we are forecasting between 18.5% to 19% EBITDA for the full year. We are nine months into the game. We are at 18.8%. So we're staying in that range. So we're not forecasting a major improvement in profitability for the fourth quarter, but rather coming in around the same profitability levels. And again, that range reflects either up or downside against those forecasts.

Okay. That's very clear. Thank you. And maybe just go back to the first question. So you're saying that you haven't seen any loss in market share, but I was just wondering if you could just comment on the extent of which you see the market declining or staying at this sort of suppressed level.

Yeah, you have to say that because you referred for example to SGD. The point is the areas where we actually lose at present is the cosmetic. Here we also do not see shifts in the market share. We see our clear competitors that, by the way, is not SGD in cosmetic, are having the same challenges, are facing the same challenges as we. So the market is really down. We see in this area, if you want to see something positive, it means that the market is not going down further. It's a kind of stabilization at this moment where The recovery that we've been waiting for in the second half of the year, obviously, is not visible before the beginning of 26, as we see it at the moment. Because the pharma business is also not so bad off. It's primarily, and you hear it again and again, it's the cosmetic and it's the oral liquids, the classic, areas where you have this cutting syrups, ibuprofen and so on. And as bad as it sounds, we are looking at the flu season now coming. And that's the first time I think in my life I'm happy if I hear people coughing because that might push the sales pitch and we see this more positive now.

And Ed, if I may, first, if you run across your colleague michael hoffman please tell him my best regards i think i worked for many many years with him uh secondly back to cash flow just in full transparency so yes 21 million of positive cash flow and there's no one else in there yes but i think for us quite frankly you've seen our first half it's too too early to call in victory here um cash rigor capex rigor stays absolutely the forefront for the business too early to call in victory again and this still is still absolutely a focus in the fourth quarter will be a focus for us for next year uh quite in simple terms we just have to deliver more with less point and that is absolutely a change that we're driving and we're laser focused on perfect thank you very much guys

Okay, thank you very much, Ed. Next questioner is Olivier Calvet. Olivier, the line is open.

Hi, Tim. I hope you can hear me? Yes. Okay, cool. Yeah, both good to hear you again, but pretty tough timing for you. I have a couple of questions. Firstly, on the news flow two weeks ago, could you perhaps confirm that the bill and hold transactions that are subject of the current Baffin audit were at the customer request and any further color on your stance relative to that audit timing to a resolution perhaps and any thoughts there?

Sure, Olivier. Yeah, also, thank you. It's great to hear you again, Olivier. Now, referring to the Baffin audit, number one, look, we fully support the audit of the Baffin. In order to most effectively do this and understand, we would like to understand the rationale for the audit, and we have requested access to the files. This access has not been granted, nor do we have yet an answer whether and when access will One topic, as you mentioned, of interest is Bill and Hold. Bill and Hold follows strict rules and regulations to ensure accurate accounting. We are fully aware of those rules and regulations and believe we follow those also at year-end 2020. At year-end 2024, we accounted for a low double-digit Euro million amount of Bill and Hold Or, you know, you're talking less than 2% of annual revenue. Those are the facts. And we'll keep you up to date on any material developments. And we're working on putting a landing page up to facilitate communication.

That's helpful. Just sorry, you said one topic. Is there others?

No, I think this is the topic that is currently mentioned. Right? And again, we want to fully support the audit. And for us to do that, most effectively, we would like to understand the rationale for this audit. And as such, we have requested access to the files. And then we can understand it better.

Yeah? OK, thanks. Then second question would be on free cash flow in particular. So essentially, and maybe I missed this in the but you're still pointing towards the negative 100 million or so for this year. And also any thoughts on required maintenance capex you have next year would be helpful as well.

All right, let me see whether I understood it correctly. So Olivier, I think what I commented on based on Ed's question was the free cash flow in the third quarter. free cash flow in the third quarter, and you will see it better tomorrow when we file the full financials, is around 21 million free, free cash flow in the third quarter. And you know that we were not positive full free cash flow in the first half of the year. So that is positive. And with closing the third quarter, we achieve a leverage of 4.15 percent and my comment was 4.15 not 4.5 times leverage and uh with as such we're fully compliant with all that covenants yeah nevertheless what i mentioned to and also was it's too early to claim victory here we have to stay laser focused on cash and we are doing that uh whether it's on capex rigor or whether it's just Cash is absolutely at the forefront. And on your question on base capex, gross capex, et cetera, look, this is now my sixth week in the company. I think roughly you're talking about annually about 100 million or so of base capex. And I think going forward we'll probably do a good job in explaining those differences, base growth, et cetera, because again, we're absolutely focused on that.

Okay. Just on the free cash flow again for 25, I think your predecessor was pointing towards a negative 100 million or so for Fulia 25, you asked 121 for... I don't know, I didn't cover my head.

It's a good question. Let me come back to that tomorrow.

Okay. And then finally, just on the financial flexibility, there was a renegotiation of the acquisition debt right before you joined. Can you tell us more on the, you know, how you're comfortable with covenant levels and so on, because obviously you're at elevated leverage levels.

Yeah. So as I mentioned, a good question, as I mentioned, we're close to third quarter, and we have now a leverage of 4.15 times. With that, we have the headroom that we need. We're fully compliant with our debt covenants.

All right. Thanks. Thank you, Olivier. The next questioner is Oliver Metzger from AutoBRF. Oliver, your line is open. Good morning. Oh, Oliver, I think we lost you. Can you come back in, please? In order to don't have to wait, next question is David Edlington from JP Morgan. David, the line is open.

Yeah, good morning, guys. Hello, can you hear me? Yes. Perfect. Great. Yeah, it's coming back to the balance sheet again. So I think the 4.15 times is on historics. I think on our maths, you're close to four and a half times with the new guidance. Maybe just in terms of, you mentioned in the presentation that the reset covenants you're happy with, maybe you could just disclose what those covenants are. And secondly, connected to that, with respect to the sale of molded glass, just wondering if you have any thoughts on potential timing there and how that will help you with your indebtedness. Thank you.

Thank you, David. So I can only repeat again. Yes, you're right. 4.15 times is the current average ratio based on third quarter results. And with that, we're fully compliant with our debt covenants. We haven't disclosed yet all the details around the latest covenants, but yes, due to the covenant reset, we have sufficient headroom and we're comfortable with that. Then your second question was the molded glass. Yeah, look, at the end of the day, the rationale for separation of molded glass is that with the acquisition of Formioli Pharma, we're bringing two parts of the business together, legacy, Gerritsheimer glass, as well as Bormulde Pharma glass into one and separating that. We think that makes sense. And then we have a consolidated focus on the molded glass business, especially now on the new leadership of Novertok. And then we take it from there. As you know, we're committed to the separation. We also would like to sell the company And we take it from there. The impact on leverage obviously depends on the sale price, and that would be speculation right now. We take it from there.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Okay, we are having Oliver back. Thank you, David. We are having Oliver back, you're live.

Yeah, thank you. Do you hear me now? Yes, very good. Yeah, I hope it stays as it is on my mobile. So yeah, good morning from my side. Also, a warm welcome to Evolve. So three questions I have. The first one is on molded glass, about the turnaround of a turn to the better. So there are still weaknesses in cosmetics and oral liquids. So is it really that you now look for the annualization of these headbands or Do you see any fundamentals which could be better apart from the flu season? second question can you also give a brief update about the plastics and device dynamics and lastly how should we think about next year i know it's too early to give a guidance right now but some dynamics will spill over into 26 which basically you know you know already so technically automotive glass how long does the patterns will last in your view thank you

It's a difficult discussion, but in the end, it comes back to the two topics we already mentioned. It's the oral liquid and the cosmetic. Cosmetic is for moldy glass. To the positive, we see that for the decline, we also want the light at the end of the tunnel, but different than we expected, there's strong recovery over the loop of 26. For the oral liquid market, this hits both the molded glass side, the classic bottles we deliver for cuffing syrups, but it is also now affecting us in the area of former Barmioli, where we have the closures for this, and this is also it. We see here also a stabilization of the market, also first indications that it might get better, And we are here more optimistic that the market comes back a bit earlier than in the area of the cosmetic. But honestly spoken, after the hitbacks I had to swallow here in the third and fourth quarter, I'm a bit conservative now on my expectation of recovery. Nevertheless, oral liquid will come back better. We have to see the flu season now, how it recovers. The cosmetic, we have to see over the loop of 26.

And maybe, Oliver, I can add a little to it. So your question was, how long will the headwind last? It's a good question. What we experienced in this year so far was that it took longer than we initially expected and it still continues. Quite frankly, taking a different approach now, we're not waiting. What we're now doing is, and that's what Deepa and I tried to explain, is we're taking action. We're not waiting for that recovery. And for that reason, we do a transformation. That transformation is also one-to-one, also happening at Molded Glass, under the lead of Norbert Topp. So we do the same rigor for Molded Glass, operation excellence, commercial excellence, cash rigor, the full program. And that will ultimately... improve the results um and a market recovery and our growth efforts uh will come on top or complement that but again most importantly is now the focus is on complement growth efforts with cost trigger cash rigor etc full transformation as explained okay great thank you very much

Thank you, Oliver. As a reminder, if you wish to register for a question, please press the blue Q&A button in the webcast and follow the instruction. Next question is coming from Anna Snopkowski of KeyBank. Anna, the line is open.

Hi, can you hear me okay?

Yes, very good. Thank you.

Thanks for taking my question. Maybe just first on the biologic market, what percent of revenue in 3Q was biologics and how did this market develop in the quarter? And then on the GLP-1 side, you've mentioned in the past the possibility of over 200 million in GLP-1s for the year. Do you still view this as a possibility? And would this mainly be on the medical device side? And then lastly, just on capacity expansions, could we get an update there? Which sites are still ramping? And overall, what's the revenue generating capacity in these sites? Thank you.

yeah i can take the first but actually i do not know exactly for the quarter the share of the biologic but uh maybe the answer of your question the answer is the following is the area where we are growing is all in the primarily in the large molecule biologic area and that probably also answers your question regarding of the glp-1 key drivers of the growth is actually in the area of glp-1 as you know we have a wide portfolio of GLP-1 which goes in plastic containment, its syringes, its devices of various forms, pens, auto-injectors. That's actually the areas that are strongly growing. Thus, coming back to the question of do we believe that we can reach to 200 million in GLP-1 in 2025, the answer is yes. When you see the slide, they're also in sub-areas. You see the tubular glass. We are not growing into, like I asked, third quarter at the moment, but we see the margins getting better. Why is this? Bulk boils are under pressure in the volume. We clearly are growing into the ready to fill high value vials. That's biologics. And the devices, that's in principle, all the growth in devices at present is biologics.

Perfect. Thank you so much. And then just around the capacity expansions, maybe which sites are still ramping going into the fourth quarter?

That's right. We also have further capacity start-off productions that we will see in the fourth quarter that will also drive some of the positive things in the fourth quarter. That's what Wolf tried to explain. It will not be enough to compensate the first three quarters, but the ramps up are ongoing. Not all will fully contribute in the fourth quarter. They will come steady ramp up over the loop of 26, but these things are ongoing, and it affects syringes, especially here, the collateral facility, but it also affects PENs in Europe and auto-invectors in the US.

And also, Anna, the package we post for tomorrow's call, the final results also will provide an update on the latest bigger projects. So have a look at that too.

Okay, very helpful. Thank you.

okay thank you very much as we have no more questions in the queue we would end today's call and wish you a good day thank you very much thank you thank you