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spk06: Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by and welcome to the Green Thumb Industries Inc. Q4 2020 earnings call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star 1 on your telephone. We ask that you limit yourself to one question and one follow-up. If you require any further assistance, please press star 0. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Jennifer Dooley, Chief Strategy Officer. Thank you. Please go ahead, ma'am.
spk08: Jennifer Dooley Thank you, David. Good afternoon and welcome to Green Thumb's fourth quarter 2020 earnings call. I'm here today with Founder and Chief Executive Officer Ben Kobler and Chief Financial Officer Anthony Giorgiannis. Today's discussion and responses to questions may include forward-looking statements, which are subject to various risks and uncertainties that could cause our actual results to differ materially from these statements. These risks and uncertainties are detailed in the company's reports filed with the United States Securities and Exchange Commission and Canadian Securities Regulator, including our quarterly report and annual report on Form 10-K, which we expect will be filed tomorrow. This report, along with today's earnings press release, can be found under the Investors section of our website. Greensum assumes no obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements to reflect events or circumstances that may arise after the date of this call. Throughout the discussion, GTI will refer to non-GAAP financial measures, including EBITDA and adjusted operating EBITDA. A reconciliation of non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures is included in our earnings press release and SEC and CDAR filings. Please note all financial information is provided in U.S. dollars and must otherwise be needed. Thanks, everyone, and now your sentence.
spk17: Thanks, Jen. Good afternoon, and thank you for joining our fourth quarter and year-end 2020 earnings call. What a year. While we've kicked off 2021 with incredible optimism, I'd be remiss not to acknowledge what a test 2020 was on so many fronts. But the essential business designation of cannabis by local governments and communities across the country was a strong vote of confidence amidst great uncertainty. It said, cannabis is for the people. Cannabis job creation is meaningful and communities benefit from cannabis tax dollars. 2020 was also a test of adaptability as Americans found new ways of living and learning And businesses across the country, Green Thumb included, innovated RapidZ to meet customer needs in a dynamic marketplace. From the first day of 2020, when we kicked off Illinois Adult Use, and nearly every day in between, our team was there for our customers when they needed us most. In 2020, we completed almost 4 million transactions. That's 4 million one-on-one consumer interactions. That's more than double 2019. We opened 11 new stores last year, plus several remodels and expansions. We acquired a third store in Connecticut and have already started 2021 with three new openings, making 54 stores open across the country. We are investing in new ways to strengthen our customer relationships that reinforce what consumers love about our product and retail experiences. And we continue to build our team to support our growth, hiring throughout the pandemic with 1300 people joining the team in 2020. All the while, Our commitment to our communities remains steadfast. We have several active programs and partnerships. One example is the Dog Walkers Animal Rescue and Shelter Support funded by purchases of Dog Walkers brand pre-rolls. We also have a program where we donate our first day profits to community organizations with each new dispensary opening. We're thankful for the support of partners like Community Shelter Services in Erie, Pennsylvania, Florida Rights Coalition and Restoration in Kendall, Florida, and most recently, Paramus Children's Health Foundation with our opening this week in New Jersey. We are privileged with the opportunity to have a seat at the table as a new industry unfolds. And it is my special privilege to say 2020 was a very productive year that delivered outstanding results for our shareholders and more cannabis to more people across the country. Fourth quarter revenue increased 13% over third quarter to $177 million and for the full year reached $557 million, more than double 2019. For those of you on the call that we met along our roadshow in May of 2018, we estimated back then that our 2020 revenue would be just under $400 million. So we are pleased with over $550 million. We delivered $22 million of positive gap net income in the quarter and achieved our second consecutive quarter of positive EPS, 11 cents in the fourth quarter, more than double Q3. Increased scale and operating leverage from expanding production capacity drove 66 million of adjusted operating EBITDA. That's 26% above third quarter. And stepping back, fourth quarter to fourth quarter, we grew revenue 100 million on the core business, or 134%, while we grew EBITDA 52 million, or nearly 5x. It's a pretty amazing situation year over year. We continue to make disciplined, high-return investments into the business. The outlook for U.S. cannabis remains strong, and we are pleased to be riding the wave. We are still in the early innings of the great American cannabis growth story, as the consumer, social, capital, and political landscapes line up for change. The political stage is set for action with the new administration that is committed to advancing comprehensive cannabis reform. In the capital markets, there was over $1 billion raised across U.S. operators in just January alone. At Green Thumb, we remain focused on driving down our cost of capital, and to start the year, we completed our U.S. IPO and sale of SEC-registered shares directly to U.S. investors. This is an important milestone, and we view it as one step closer to listing on a major U.S. exchange, giving us equal footing to our Canadian peers. We completed the financing without any fees, so gross equals net, and $156 million goes straight to the balance sheet. This transaction was a big win for two reasons, our shareholders and the industry. For shareholders, it's dry powder for Green Thumb to invest and capitalize on high return growth opportunities that drive shareholder value. And for the industry, we see it as a leading indicator of strong institutional appetite for U.S. cannabis. There are a lot of ways to both grow and slice the pie simultaneously. And we like our position as the green wave unfolds. We believe what is happening in Illinois with over one billion in year one adult use sales and nearly 200 million of tax revenue is actually a preview of what's to come across New England, the Southeast, and the Midwest. And if you think about it, Illinois is just starting. In fact, our stat of the day is The state of Illinois collected more tax dollars from cannabis than alcohol this February. The lines crossed. Illinois cannabis contributes more tax dollars than Illinois alcohol. More growth in Illinois cannabis than in Illinois alcohol ahead. Momentum in markets like Connecticut, New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania makes sense because there are a lot of consumers who live there that want a lot of cannabis. As the details of these programs are worked out, we hope lessons from the Illinois adult use rollout are noted, especially regarding social equity licenses that still remain unissued. And that is not good. The industry is in a place that it can enable new wealth and new opportunity for those that did not have access to it before. And DreamThumb wants to help make that happen. At Green Sun, we're actively studying, planning, and building our boat because, as I hope you can see by now, the tidal wave is real. We opened our first California store in Pasadena this month, giving us firsthand experience inside the country's pioneering cannabis market. Through a recently announced partnership, we're expanding access to California's number one cannabis beverage, Cannes. by bringing it to Illinois this spring. This is an entirely familiar format, sparkling beverages, yet totally untapped in cannabis. We're excited to invest in the nation's leading cannabis beverage and to introduce a compelling alcohol alternative to tens of millions of Americans. The Green Thumb team loves the white space opportunities to connect with consumers with safer alternatives such as an incredible Snoozeberry instead of an Ambien, Dr. Solomon's Rescue Lotion instead of Icy Hot, a bong hit of Rhythm's Brownie Scout instead of Xanax, a Bebo Pastille instead of a Wine Hangover, and now a can instead of a White Claw. Above all, we have a solid foundation, a really fantastic team, excellent products, very high-quality flour, which really is the start of it all, and a proven track record of doing what we say we will do. There's no exact blueprint for how the world, the country, or the industry will evolve in a new post-COVID world, but the American consumer guides us, and the Green Thumb team remains as energized as ever to serve them. With that, I'll turn the call over to Anthony to dig into our financial results for the fourth quarter and full year. Anthony?
spk18: Thanks, Ben, and good afternoon, everyone. As you just heard, we're incredibly proud of what the team accomplished in the fourth quarter and throughout 2020. In addition to generating record revenue and profitability, the team showed tremendous grit. None of the accomplishments of the last year would have been possible without the hard work, dedication, and personal sacrifice of every member of the Green Thumb family. And while the successes of 2020 were significant, we remain steadfast and focused as ever on the future. But we'll get to that later. For now, let's have some fun with our numbers, starting with Revenant. In 2019, the company generated $216 million of revenue. In 2020, $557 million. 2.5x growth in the middle of a pandemic, certainly made for an interesting year. In Q4 alone, the company generated $177 million of revenue, a 13% increase over Q3, and $100 million greater than our Q4 2019 revenue. Given our limited M&A activity in 2020, nearly all of this growth was driven the old-fashioned way. We made more and we sold more. For the quarter, gross CPG revenue grew by $23 million, or 31% over Q3. On a net basis, accounting for intercompany revenue, our quarterly growth approximated $11 million, or 25%. Over in retail, revenue increased $9 million, or 8%, primarily driven by same-store sales growth. On a gross basis, our revenue split for the quarter was 55% retail, 45% CPG. On a net basis, 68% retail, 32% CPG. It's exciting to see the impact of our CapEx dollars at work as our CPG to retail revenue ratio continues to tilt towards CPG. As a reminder, the difference between gross and net is intercompany revenue, which approximated 42 million in Q4 and 30 million in Q3. The company's robust revenue performance is the result of the following. Number one, more legal consumption. Demand is big and growing. Two, quality product. Our goal from day one has been to produce and sell great cannabis products, products that we ourselves would want to purchase. Last, execution. We cultivate, we manufacture, we retail. The fundamentals in this business are similar to any other. We push our team to consistently choose simple over complex. Turning to profitability, the company continues to perform, posting gross margins for the quarter and year in the mid-50s. In fact, Q4 was a record at just under 57%. As I've said before, our intrinsic goal is to keep this very important metric at or above 50%. On the SG&A side, expense for the quarter approximated $53 million, or 30% of revenue. Excluding DNA and stock-based comp, normalized operating costs totaled $38 million, compared with $34 million last quarter. While operating leverage didn't quite have the verticality as it did in previous quarters, we have made a conscious effort to deepen the company's bench in the face of regulatory change. Total other income for the quarter approximated $3.4 million, largely driven by the mark-to-market of our investment portfolio. Accounting for everything above, in Q4, the company generated over $65 million in adjusted operating EBITDA, close to 37% of revenue. It also produced just shy of 51 million in pre-tax income and 22 million in net income. This provided Greenfield with its second consecutive quarter of a positive EPS at 11 cents a share, a nice increase over the 4 cents we reported in Q3. For its fiscal year 2020, the company generated approximately 180 million in adjusted operating EBITDA, six times more than the $28 million we generated in 2019. In summary, from 2019 to 2020, the company grew its revenue by 2.5x and its EBITDA by 6x. Pretty, pretty good. Turning to our balance sheet, we ended the year with just under $84 million in cash and continue to keep a tight leash on the company's working capital, notwithstanding its tremendous growth. Subsequent to quarter end, we raised $156 million in additional equity capital. What's notable about the raise was, first, it was self-conducted, meaning we did not use an intermediary, and as Ben succinctly said, gross equals net. The equity we sold was registered with the SEC. In early February, the SEC deemed our S-1 effective, a major accomplishment for the industry. On our public float, over 80% of our shares are freely traded. We continue to believe that liquidity breeds confidence. Net-net, we are extremely proud of our Q4 and 2020 financial results. During our last call, I indicated that 2021 would be a year where many things would change, yet many would stay the same. Simple principles such as leading with the consumer, focus drives excellence, market optimization, prudent capital allocation, investing in the team, and playing to win will remain our North Star. The only difference is we now have a well-stocked war chest. And with that war chest, we not only plan to build a bigger boat, but an armada. In closing, I'll leave you with a quote from the Oracle of Omaha. Every decade or so, dark clouds will fill the economic skies and they will briefly rain gold. When downpours of that sort occur, it's imperative that we rush outdoors carrying wash tubs, not teaspoons. And that is what we will do. And in this 100-year storm we call Prohibition 2.0, we are going to bring other people along with us to take advantage of the greatest economic and cultural opportunity our generation has ever seen. Back to you, Ben.
spk17: Thanks, Anthony. Really dynamic comments from the CFO. I appreciate it. This is our third year-end call since we went public in 2018. And when I look back, at what our team has accomplished in this short period of time and both humbled and grateful. We have built a very strong foundation to continue our growth trajectory, but that's only part of the Green Thumb story. Each day is a new day at Green Thumb. How might we expand access to well-being, serve our customers and communities better? How might we provide more opportunities for our team? and manage capital more efficiently. I'm especially proud that our team continues to dedicate time to support our communities and one another during COVID and beyond. Given it's International Women's Month, I want to give a special shout out to the women on the Green Thumb team on today, the greenest day of the year. And for me personally, I feel lucky to be part of this team in this industry. We still have a lot to learn and I expect and hope we'll continue to have a lot of fun learning. From the consumer perspective, the cannabis industry product and access will only improve. That means 2021 is a new beginning for all of us. We wake up every day here energized by that idea. It's still day one. Operator, you will now open up the line to take questions.
spk06: As a reminder, to ask a question, you will need to press star 1 on your telephone. To withdraw your question, press the pound or hash key. We ask that you limit yourself to one question and one follow up. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. Your first question comes from the line of Matt McGinley with Needham. Your line is open.
spk02: Thank you. My first question is on the CPG business. The sequential increase in revenue in this quarter was impressive, given that most of your production assets would have been operational for most of the third quarter. I think your big cultivation projects this year don't really become operational until later in the year. So the question is, would the increases in production efficiency be enough to sustain your CPG revenue growth in the first half, or does that become more muted until later in the year?
spk18: Hey, Matt. This is Anthony. I'll take that one. So, you know, the team did an excellent job at bringing forward some of the future CPG revenue that we had projected. The construction projects ended early. We got the plants planted early. And then subsequently, we were able to get that revenue flow through the P&L sooner than we initially anticipated. Obviously, we'll continue to focus on efficiencies, but that was one of the drivers of the growth that we saw quarter over quarter.
spk02: Got it. And on the CapEx, I didn't hear anything with regard to a CapEx plan for the year. I think you spent around $100 million in 2019. I'm not sure what the very end of the year was for this year, but it was around probably $110, $120. How does that look for next year and rather this year? And would you expect to use sale leasebacks or would that primarily come from the cash that you raised in cash from ops in 21? Excellent question.
spk17: Hey, Matt, it's Ben. I think you're right to focus on that because I think the spend is a leading indicator of what's to come as we try to sort of continue to preview over the last 18 months or so as we turn down some things in 2020. You're exactly right, 110 to 120 on the CapEx. You'll see that tomorrow with the filing of the K. And I would say really in 2021, we're going to go bigger than 2020. It's a little hard to handicap exactly what's going to happen and where. We'll continue to try to be as transparent as possible. Source of funds, to your question, you know, it's a very interesting time to be thinking about cost of capital and the sale-leaseback market and the expense of money and what that's looking like. It's a changing curve. It's not static. And, you know, An asset for a long period of time at a fixed rate, much higher, that you no longer own is not as attractive when traditional mortgage is available. Or debt rates, as we've talked about, are going down. So everything we look at is a lens of shareholder value, and, you know, we wouldn't spend more than we need to to have the money we need to to execute the plan. We're obsessed with driving down cost of capital. And... We're pumped about 2021.
spk06: Your next question comes from the line of Camille Lyon with BTIG. Your line is open.
spk05: Thanks, and good afternoon, everyone. Great job on the quarter. Thanks. 2020 was a fantastic year for your gross margin expansion. That really continued, obviously, here in the fourth quarter. Can you give us some insights into the key drivers of that margin expansion in the fourth quarter, and how would you think about those influencers into 2021, particularly on the pricing side and your expectations for that input?
spk18: Hey, Camille. Anthony here. Look, yes, obviously, incredible year on the gross margin front. We saw a nice gross margin expansion. I think the biggest driver was operating leverage, particularly on the wholesale side of the business. The retail gross margin is relatively static, depending on the market, depending on the time. But what you really saw throughout the year was we grew into the facilities that we built out. If the teams effectively operate longer, we become more efficient. It's one of the things that we focus on daily is just continuous improvement. It's hard to have a crystal ball to see where that goes in the future. You know, do I expect the margins to stay where they are? It's really tough to say. And that's why internally we really focus on, you know, keeping that number at or above 50%. If we can do that in the long term, we should win. And so that's really what we're focused on. And as we look ahead, that's really kind of the benchmark that we tie ourselves to.
spk05: Got it. And then my second question is on the cultivation side. Really from understanding where you're at in New York and the build-out of the new facility that I think you broke ground on in Warwick, New York, and also just an update on the progress of the New Jersey Pennsylvania, I believe. um that um you just started carrying of some of your own rhythm product in your stores so any update on on those two uh assets and their ability to start to supply um your own stores would be fantastic hey camille ben here uh thanks for the questions good question uh i would say new york is very very early and a lot of action to come there uh you know
spk17: day-to-day news cycle there and at the highest of high levels New York has a lot of people that live there and a very immature early medical market astronomically so so we're thinking long term not thinking next quarter or even next year we're building a business of 23 24 25 for US cannabis and we're excited about where that's headed New Jersey, you're exactly right. We've had Amshine on the shelf. It's a medical-only market right now as the rules come out and get formed. We're excited to be able to launch Rhythm, which is a higher-quality premium product. It's great for the patients, and as we have more of it, we'll be able to get it all around the state and really hopefully satisfy those that are interested in premium cannabis flower, because that's what we're about, and I think we do a pretty good job. But we're going to let the consumer tell us. And in terms of just the scale there, you know, it's never enough, and New Jersey is going to be tight on supply for a while. We have some. We will have a little more, and then we'll have a little more. It's a dense market up there in northern New Jersey for us, but we've found a way to invest capital into a facility that can produce the kind of flour we need and other products, as we've talked about, particularly under REC. Even though the rules aren't fully out, I don't want to jump the gun, we think there will be expanded access to different form factors of product, and we're excited to be in that market.
spk03: Fantastic. Thanks for the call. Good luck.
spk17: Sure. Thank you.
spk06: Your next question comes from the line of Vivian Azar with Cowan. Your line is open.
spk09: Hi. Thanks very much for the question. So my first is on can. You know, recognizing that the beverage category broadly is still nascent, um in the u.s i was hoping um that you could kind of articulate the rollout plan you called out you know illinois and beyond when you announce the agreement should we expect to see beverages in illinois and other states in 2021 and as well can you um potentially articulate like how we um should think about the p l impact thanks sure hey vivian uh you know so your last question i don't think it's gonna be a major p l impact i think it's gonna be a major consumer impact
spk17: This is a new form factor into a market that is 99% plus off-prem, the outlaw space off-premises. You know, slowly the world, the U.S. will really evolve. And beyond means the East Coast markets that are adult use, where we can target this product, certainly New Jersey. We don't have the rules yet, so I don't want to overpromise. And other markets out there. We're excited about bringing the product to Chicago, to the Midwest, to a lot of curious cannabis consumers, or soon-to-be consumers, who are unsure exactly. And the concept is simply said as sharing a gummy with a friend is not as familiar as sharing an awesome sparkling beverage that just tastes so refreshing in the sun that you want a few of them. And then you're not over-consuming. The key factor here on this form factor and dosage is a non-over-consumed setup. But we're going to go slow. We practice a crawl, walk, run. And the supply chain is new. The size in the market is new. But we'll be watching and studying. And we want to come with the best brand and a product that's differentiated, that has huge momentum, because everybody that tries it seems to love it.
spk09: Yeah, that sounds great. It's a very attractive product indeed. My follow-up question is on your same-store sales growth, which looks to have decelerated sequentially. It was very high in the third quarter, so some deceleration is not necessarily unexpected. But if you could expand on that, please, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
spk17: Yeah, did you say decelerated?
spk09: Yeah, I believe your same-store sales growth was 18% last quarter on a 42-store base, and this quarter it was fixed on 48%.
spk17: Yeah, like 65 and then 60. Yeah, I wouldn't read much into that. It's a bigger base. More is coming onto the base. Certainly, like as you anticipate, and if you're modeling your first quarter Illinois, lapping Illinois, you do not have the step-up that you did on a big base like last year, just anticipating how this works. But the boxes are good. There's a lot of demand for the product. And again, the best leading indicator is the state data that is pretty transparent on a state-by-state basis. And it's pretty easy to see the penetration feels pretty good.
spk09: Great. Thank you.
spk17: Sure. Thanks.
spk06: Your next question comes from the line of Eric DeLaurier with Craig Hallam Capital. Your line is open.
spk07: Great. Thanks for taking my questions, and congrats on yet another very impressive quarter. So given the siloed nature of state markets and the active M&A environment in this space, integration is a vital yet often overlooked aspect of the industry. I know integration is something that you guys have always been focused on with your one GTI strategy. And, you know, recently we've been seeing and hearing reviews of improving flower quality from Rhythm. And, you know, obviously investors are seeing continual improvement in your financial results. So can you talk a bit more about your one GTI strategy? You know, how do you seek to drive continual improvement at GTI, you know, whether it's financials or product quality and sort of how you expect that to maintain your leadership position going forward here?
spk17: Thanks, Eric. Yes, Ben, I appreciate the kind words and seeing or that you're feeling some momentum on the Rhythm Flower is going to make the growth team pretty psyched and the whole team. That's what this is all about, the two things you said, the team and what the team can deliver for the consumer, which is the product, and that product delivers an experience. And if we can deliver that experience everywhere and get consistency and elevated, we win. We believe in the product. We think that it can offer well-being to consumers across America. And we're sticking to the playbook. Anthony said, you know, when in doubt, choose simple. And so we're learning, we're focusing, we're refining. We do not have it right. We do not know the perfect mix. But we're in a unique position. And we get some of the product right. good things tend to happen because it's all about the consumer and that experience. So hopefully that answers your question.
spk07: Yeah, that was definitely helpful. Thanks for that. And then just as a follow-up, so from an investor's point of view, we've certainly seen the impact of depth over breadth within markets, and you guys have clearly demonstrated some leading capital allocation skill. Can you talk about any insights that you guys have gained over the past months or years, how your capital allocation strategy has potentially evolved? And then with these two large raises year to date and now reports of safe banking being reintroduced tomorrow, how might that capital allocation strategy change with increased access to capital markets?
spk17: Yeah, I mean, the short answer is no change, same game. I mean, we're investing on behalf of shareholders to create great returns. And we think brands distributed at scale is how to win with great brands that resonate with consumers. and we can build those brands across the market. So, we sit at the same table, we have the same conversation, and there could be an extra zero, there could be a different state, but we have a team that can handle it now. Not that we're perfect, but it's a different kind of game to be sitting and be allocating the capital and driving the returns, because we can believe in the spend. We've been at this six, seven years, and we've made plenty of mistakes, and we try to make the same mistake twice, and if we do, we make it less expensive. But that's what we're up to, and it continues to be invest $1 to create $2. And it's a growth business at a cheap price, so it's like a $0.50 $2. And we're pumped about the game, but we're not going to change it. So here we are with a lot of cash. industry is dynamic, and there are tens of millions of consumers across the country that are curious, that are interested, and we just want to be part of the experience of opening this up for folks as they have alternatives.
spk06: Your next question comes from the line of Pablo Zwanek with Cantor Fitzgerald. Your line is open.
spk00: Thank you. Ben, it's a bit of a maybe philosophical question, but there's more and more MSOs providing guidance, and some of them with a lot of detail. Is that something you're thinking of doing, or you don't see value for you guys to do that? Thanks.
spk17: You know, thanks, Pablo. You know, we've been out and around and hearing the trends and watching people talk about pro formas and then deals break. And, you know, has guidance been helpful for you and the investment community? It's very hard to handicap when these things open and how they go. We're trying to be as transparent as possible about the business and where there's growth and really what's happening. I'd say the best leading indicator to the business and really the best guidance is to spend as transparent as possible about that because that's going to drive the business. In a market at a high level where there's more demand than supply and if that evolves, what that capex is doing to fortify the moat, drive down the marginal cost of production and continue to lead the business. So... I'm not sure which kind of guidance to give you based on which markets. And, you know, I couldn't tell you what month New Jersey turns on and how that works or what's going to happen when Illinois is going to get out of its own way and issue 75 new licenses. I wish I did. That would be fine. But we have to play with the facts we have and share them as they come.
spk00: That's fair. And then just a second one. You know, Other companies are talking about making contingency plans or having contingency plans for the onset of interstate trade in the future. I know, again, that's very hard to predict if that will ever happen and when it will happen. How does that color your plans of expanding capacity in New York, New Jersey, or Pennsylvania? But it does not at all, and you just go after the opportunity in those states pretty much state by state. Thanks.
spk17: Thanks. It's certainly a factor at the table. We're focused on allocating capital to build the brands, and we study the map a lot, and we're watching what's happening. We do not think Interstate is coming tomorrow. That would be a surprise, but I think business would be in great shape if it did. I think the thing that many miss with this question, which comes up all the time, is what else would be happening in the game if that were to occur? And, you know, that's an interesting thought exercise and a whiteboard for folks. It's not simply just interstate. So we are about building the brands for the consumers and anticipating what we don't know, even though we don't know what we don't know. And if everything we know is what we know, we love what's going on. And, therefore, we'll continue to wait. You know, as Anthony says to the team all the time, expect the unexpected. So therefore, is that the way to play or not? And I think this week alone, look what's happening with New York, look what's potentially happening in Congress and D.C. There is action. And like we said in the remarks, we're prepared for it. We think change is happening and we're set up well. Got it. Thank you. Sure. Thanks, Pablo.
spk06: Your next question comes from the line of Howard Penny with Hedgeye. Your line is open.
spk03: Hey, thanks very much for the question. I'm not sure how to ask this question, but take a state where you're building cultivation. How many years does it take to get your return, your dollar return on that investment? And I ask that in the context of interstate commerce. And if it's five years down the road, will you have gotten payback on those assets you're putting in the ground? Thanks.
spk17: Yeah, fast enough that we're not worried to be spending the money we're spending to be sure that whatever happens, we're going to be good is the core answer because that's the thought a lot. But zooming out, you know, between permitting and getting set up, and we've talked about the highest level, six months to build and six months to grow, you know, could be six, eight, 10 months, depending on which jurisdiction or sooner. Plants can't be sped up or slowed down. They are what they are as we unroll that. And then you can make some assumptions on prices based on the market to figure out the returns and the yields. But it's an attractive enough investment where we're not worried about what will happen if we can simply, as I've said many times, execute. If we continue to execute well, there's always room for improvement. But if we execute with the dollars, the returns are great, like fantastic. And by raising the cash at 1x, right, the dollar is a dollar, and then investing it for the EBITDA that that dollar creates and trading at a multiple of you make it up creates a lot of shareholder value, which is exactly what we're up to, which is why, you know, it's a math question like the capex is the situation. And then it's why because of the demand curve. And it's around and around we go, and the consumer loves the product. So, like, that's the whole deal here.
spk03: And if I could just ask another one, how important is a capital markets component to the SAFE Act? I appreciate the access to the financial system and all that SAFE brings it, but there's another element that I think is also important. So just curious how important that is.
spk17: I think you said, let me show you how important the capital markets are to the SAFE Banking Act.
spk03: A capital markets aspect to it, yeah. But besides just access to banking and the financial systems, you know, there's a capital markets component that allows you to switch exchanges.
spk17: I mean, there's upside. The way we run the business is sort of an optionality machine. Right? And so we're fine with the way it is now, and if things get better, it'll be better. If the cost of capital goes from where it was in the rearview mirror, which was a double-digit rate with warrants or these double-digit rates to where it's going to be very soon, which is single-digit, where the credit is probably investment-grade, and yet we have to pay more, but it's still single-digit, and then it's going to go even lower. But the people that have access to lower cost of capital can't put it inside of our moat. So we're very comfortable with the current setup. We love that we can lead the industry with lowest cost of capital. That's really the way to win over several cycles and several different industries. If it changes and this passes and the things and the nuance, and you know probably better than I do how the sausage is made and the details, which we do not have a lot of edge in, but what we do have edge in is optimizing with the facts on the table. So if capital markets open up and stay for a leading position to list on the U.S. exchange, we're SEC registered and we sold stock to U.S., you know, it's GAAP, we're here, we are ready. But it's not my call, it's not Anthony's call. So we're playing the system and we're just putting ourselves in a position, like I said, optionality maximization machine. And that's what we're doing.
spk03: Appreciate your time. Thank you.
spk17: Thanks, Howard.
spk06: Your next question comes from the line of Michael Lavery with Piper Sandler. Your line is open. Good afternoon.
spk16: Thank you. Can you give us an update on your strategy in California? You've obviously just opened a store there. Just maybe some of what your enthusiasm is in terms of seeing that market improve or what its outlook is and just help us kind of understand what to expect looking ahead.
spk17: Sure. If I had to summarize the California strategy, one word I would say is learning. We're there to get smarter. I've said before in many ways, California is the best way to lose money in cannabis. And I say that affectionately to all the people that have lost money there, but it's a tough setup. So I don't want to swim upstream or sit at the hardest poker table or anything like that. I like when the odds are in our favor. But there's a lot to learn. There's a lot of respect for what's happened out there and who the players are and what goes on. It would be foolish of us to ignore. But I don't need to allocate a lot of money if we don't think it can turn into, you know, more. But I think product, you said pioneering, prepared remarks, innovation, which happens kind of everywhere, branding, consumer trends, whether it's cannabis or otherwise, are really important. And we like... what we're doing there in order to position ourselves. Like I mentioned in the last question with optionality, it's really the whole strategy everywhere is optionality. So we think we're in a pretty good position there to watch, learn, get better, and, you know, at the right time, take advantage for shareholders if it makes sense.
spk16: Okay, that's helpful. And just on the consumer, can you give a sense of, how much you're seeing, you know, learning behind the brand equity, you know, which brands maybe stand out more than others or, you know, anything that helps you in, you know, markets that are new or, you know, you've got wholesale in California, but just, you know, maybe pushing that further or, you know, how to think about the traction behind the brands and how sticky it can be.
spk17: Yeah, just broadly brands in the country. I mean, it's the same exact thing. I've been saying this as an honest, Consistent products. I mean, before you get into the marketing campaign and the colors and everything, there's a few people able to do it. I think there's a national launch here recently. Availability. Simply having consistent product available is a monstrous feat. That's how you can build a brand. That isn't good. But if one day, you know, like somebody said a while ago, the Sprite is orange, it's not really going to work so well. So we just need to be consistent and available. We think we're on to something to connect to the consumer who is the user of the product and the use case, form factor, happy, healthy, comfortable, it's in the deck. That's the game. It's like not more complicated than that. And the consumers are everybody you're around. I'm around, multi-generational. suburban, rural, urban, and from all walks of life who are curious about an alternative for this. And so that's what we do. And, you know, we can then get pretty instant feedback on what brands are working on and, you know, what might not resonate. But we can tell right away. And then as somebody else, you know, consumers are loving rhythm brownies cap, like winter. They are loving, incredible winter. And we can tell that. We know that that's happening. We know people don't sleep very well. We know Snoozeberry gives a better night's sleep. We don't have FDA studies. Things are beginning to unfold broadly. But we're offering well-being and an alternative and a consistent brand. You know, that's kind of like what America has been about for a long time, the land of the brand, for 100 years. 20 years or so. So we're happy to play right into that and offer an alternative for the consumer that really drives the economy, which is really going to drive this decade growth story.
spk16: That's great, Kohler. Thanks so much. Sure.
spk06: Your next question comes from the line of Aaron Gray with Alliance Global Partners. Your line is open.
spk11: Hi, good evening, Anna. Thanks for the questions and congrats on the quarter. So just quickly, I know you guys aren't giving, you know, guidance, just to kind of give us, you know, a better sense in terms of, you know, maybe some store openings you guys might have planned, you know, over the next couple quarters. I know you still have, you know, some stores you could open up in states like Pennsylvania. You know, California, you have two more. Florida, you could open up some more, as well as Illinois. So just if you can give us any sense in terms of planned store openings you might have, I think that would be helpful. Thanks.
spk17: Sure. Thanks, Aaron. Yeah, sure. We can give you a little more color there. So 54 open today. Three that have opened this year. Steppenbach, 19. We said 15 to 20. We did 20, I think. And in 2020, we opened 11 with some remodels. The remodels can really drive business. Obviously, we'd go same site for medical and adult use. It's effectively a new store, but it's a remodel. We don't add it to the count. And I mentioned the acquisition in Connecticut. So 2021, three open so far this year. That's Pasadena, Paramus, and one in Pennsylvania. And there are more in the pipeline, actually. I'm not giving guidance, but if things align here, we could get one, maybe two more open this quarter or April. We've got cookies in the pipeline. That's the second quarter situation in Vegas. And look, people are going to come back to Vegas if you believe the flight numbers now and vaccine penetration and tourism and things like that. So we're pumped about that. And there's more to go. You mentioned a few of the states. There's a third store in New Jersey. There's another store in Illinois. Pennsylvania, Nevada. So it's like where we're not maxed, we're going. And where we have access to product, we'll open a store to serve the consumer.
spk11: All right, great. Thanks. Appreciate that, Kyle. And then second one for me, I know you guys talked about some investments you made in the management bench. So you had a little bit less SG&A leverage this quarter than you had some prior. So I just want to get a better sense of where you feel you are today in terms of additional investment seen on the SG&A side and how – to expect maybe incremental SG&A as you go forward because obviously you guys have pretty, you know, frothy EBITDA margins. You mentioned some of your expectations on the gross margin side, so we'd love to get your perspective on in terms of where you feel like you stand on the SG&A side. Thanks.
spk18: Hey, Aaron. This is Anthony. Good question. So you're exactly right. Look, we're going to continue to invest in the team, and it's across the board at all levels, right? So we, you know, one of the things that we're doing now that we – are better capitalized, we have a solid business that's producing nice cash flow, is we now have the luxury to look ahead 12, 24 months and really see what's coming and prepare for it and learn from the mistakes where, you know, candidly, we may not have been as well staffed as we could have been that would have allowed us to take greater advantage of an opportunity within a market. In terms of where margins will go in terms of the SG&A line, again, it's really hard to say. But, you know, I would expect that the gross SG&A number will continue to grow. And then how fast it grows, you know, we'll sit back and we'll throttle it up or down depending on how quickly we anticipate kind of future revenue hitting the P&L. That's one of the things that we do on a regular basis is just make sure that we're constantly level setting and stepping on the gas or hitting the brakes on an as-needed basis.
spk11: All right, great. Thanks.
spk06: Your next question comes from the line of Andrew Parthenow with GMP. Your line is open.
spk01: Thanks for taking my questions, and congrats on another great quarter. Thanks, Andrew. Maybe just talking about, you know, the production expansions that you guys said you pulled forward in Q4 and, you know, obviously you guys are not going to give guidance, but could you talk a little bit about, you know, what states those were in and for 2021, you know, what would your priorities be both near term and maybe in the second half of the year in terms of production expansions on a state basis?
spk17: Sure. Thanks, Andrew. Ben, I could start. I would say if you look at a map, which I'm doing, and you look east of the Mississippi, you got a lot of people in a lot of markets that are under-penetrated. Where our licenses are with first mover and access to consumers, where it's medical and it's potentially going to adult use or it's already adult use, and that's where we'll put our dollars. So to give you the state names, I mean, it's not that hard to see where we are, but Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Maryland, Connecticut, New York, Massachusetts. It means every single state, each of the Mississippi where we're operating in currently, and we're very focused on what else is happening around the country. We're not too head down to miss something.
spk01: And then maybe just switching gears, You know, I think stimulus checks are going to be in people's pockets soon. Last year, we saw that that could have, you know, triggered increased spending on cannabis. How should we think about it this time around? You know, there's potentially more supply in the market now that things have progressed since last year, but at the same time, there's a little bit of a reopening or reducing of restrictions. So how should we think about the, you know, how consumers might be spending their stimulus checks in the near term?
spk17: Yeah, I mean, literally it's as simple as they're going to buy more wheat. It's nice that the markets have more supply because businesses will grow.
spk01: All right. Well, that seems pretty straightforward. Thanks for that. No problem.
spk06: Your next question comes from the line of Graham Crindler with 8 Capital. Your line is open.
spk04: Hi, good afternoon, and thank you for taking my question. Just to follow up on that previous question there, the dynamics between stimulus checks, some states reopening, some others easing the restrictions. I'm just wondering, layering that on with some commentary from... from peers about we're seeing some seasonality or potential for some seasonality within the industry, some patterns there. I'm wondering what that looks like, how all those forces are acting against one another with respect to what it's looked like for you guys in Q1 to date. Thank you very much.
spk17: Yeah, I mean, 2020 was a strong year. You know, the first quarter, like we sort of talked about, we were able to pull forward. The consumer trends, you know, Hard for me to really say. February had a lot of snow. Nobody can miss that. You got to just look at what happened in the country. But I can't really comment on any sort of trend. We think demand is strong, getting stronger. Basically, what I strongly encourage you to do, or anybody really, is just look at the state revenue by state and then the population and understand what's going on there. And we're bullish.
spk04: Understood. Thank you.
spk06: Your next question comes from the line of Scott Fortune with Roth Capital Partners. Your line is open.
spk12: Thanks for the questions. I want to go back to your whiteboard there, Ben, or thoughts on third-party brand strategy. You seem to be adding leaders in the brand space with cookies and the recent can. Can you provide a little more color on your partnerships or kind of the strategy
spk17: there and big picture long term to partner with or jv is kind of some of the larger cpg brands out there potentially sure thanks guy yeah we're really just studying the consumer and what's resonating and want to be around and uh learning all the time from who's having success and what's going on um so it's a mixture of building our own learning from what's out there expanding the portfolio and form factors They'll buy a decision every day and that sort of thing. But at the core is consumers are going to resonate with a product that is branded. Like it's the most simple sort of thing to say, but it really is an important idea that drives us. It's been part of the business thesis since 2014.
spk12: Got it. And just a little quick color on Florida to expand there. You're seeing more supply competition coming on board. I know you're not allocating much down there. Do you see it as an important state, even though you haven't allocated much there? How do you look at Florida?
spk17: Yeah, 20 million people is very important. We like the market a lot. You know, in a world where there was limited high cost of capital, it didn't make a lot of sense. Similar argument may not hold as much water.
spk12: Thank you. Thanks, Scott.
spk06: Your next question comes from the line of Andrew Semple with Echelon Capital Markets. Your line is open.
spk15: Good afternoon, everyone, and congrats on yet another solid quarter. Thanks, Andrew. Given the bigger war chest, as you guys put it, I'd like to get your updated commentary on M&A. Has there been any change to the criteria you will employ going forward, or any states that are now standing out that maybe haven't in the past? And are you seeing any meaningful movement on private market valuations, given what we've seen in the public markets over the past couple of months?
spk17: Sure, I'll take it, Ben. I think I've already said it, but everything's on the table if it makes sense. and we are studying everything going on, especially in the U.S. Bar for the capital remains very high, but there's a lot of dynamic pricing in capital and different things. How does it fit into the overall thesis? Does it help us distribute brands at scale? Who are the people? And somebody else mentioned integration. Very underestimated skill and list in this industry. We're proud of where we are with 1GTI right now. Whoa. So we're here. We're watching. And it's the exact same lens that I keep mentioning, which is, is it good for shareholders? Does it drive the thesis? Is it crazy exciting for us? And several other proprietary matrices that we run.
spk15: Great. Thanks for that. um and if i could maybe just go back to the partnership agreement with can um i just want to clarify is cannabis beverages completely incremental to your existing product portfolio and are you seeing anything on the ground uh that would suggest that consumers are going to respond uh uh favorably to this uh to this new format being introduced yeah i mean two yeses uh totally incremental
spk17: I think it's really a new consumer entry, form factor, comfort, dosage. This is a glass of wine at the end of the day replacement. This is the white ball replacement. This is the weekend, you know, out and about. You know, say it's a medical product and when the medical product is, it's different, right? We're talking about a different consumer, a different use case, and that sort of thing. And I don't think we would be behind it as much as we are unless we thought that there was adoption and that there was interest and something was going to happen here.
spk15: Great. Thanks again. Thanks, Andrew.
spk06: Your next question comes from the line of Glenn Mattson with Landenberg Thalman. Your line is open.
spk13: Hi. Thanks for taking the questions. It's been a great quarter. So, you know, most of my questions have been asked at this point, so, you know, digging a little bit from the bottom of the well. But maybe I would love an update, just the new store you opened in California being an Essence store. Can you just remind us kind of like what the – strategy is for having multiple brands on the retail front? I can understand them on the CPG side, but kind of the high-level differences between the two stores and whether or not you'll consolidate those at some point.
spk17: Yeah, I mean, we're trying to build the best consumer experience. We've got Essence in Vegas. This was a license that had an application, and things in California are incredibly tricky. I'd say Pasadena was one of the more tricky stores to open that we've been a part of with 54. But it's the same promise. We win with service and selection. We treat people extremely well. We've made mistakes, and we move on. So we expect to win there. and see what happens. Like I said, it's a learning thing, and I couldn't tell you exactly what the path is going to be, but we're excited. It's right on Colorado, and it's a good location in a market that doesn't have a lot of licenses, being Pasadena, in a market where the consumer knows the product and will keep us honest, and we're excited about the opportunity there.
spk13: Great. If I remember correctly, I think you had a license for a consumption lounge as well. Any plans to move ahead with that? Anything on that front?
spk17: You're correct. And still evaluating diligence, location. There's lots of challenges. Like I said, Pasadena was one of the trickier ones out there. I think in terms of on-prem, which is consumption lounge across the country, I think probably in a year from now when we sit here in 2022, there will be more sites across more states. The first one is opening in Illinois. Not ours, but I saw a headline earlier. I think that will... continue to evolve, right? This is the unknown. This is the great American experiment. This is what we do. We invest and innovate, and I think on-prem consumption will exist.
spk13: Great. Thanks, Ben.
spk17: Sure. Thanks.
spk06: Your next question comes from the line of Matt Bottomley with Canaccord Genuity. Your line is open.
spk14: uh good evening everyone uh grass on the quarter just wanted to uh pivot back to new jersey one of the sort of inbound questions i get a lot from investors is sort of how to handicap or or line up the the rather limited licenses that are there already so about about 12 operators there and given the retail infrastructure versus the population is still quite modest even from a medical alone standpoint um can you give us any color on on what you think the uh strategic considerations are to get off the ground running there is it having enough you know capacity built up in advance is it the actual locations of your retail versus your peers just trying to get um some more color on that market which everyone expects at some point in the next six to nine months here to open up sure matt anthony i'll take that one look i think it's all the above right you've got a very dense state um surrounded by a lot of other markets
spk18: Certainly you need the product to open the store. But at the same time, given that the medical program really didn't get off the ground with any real substance and it took a lot of time, cannabis is still a nascent story when you're sitting down with some of these local regulators. And so there's a lot of education that has to take place within these towns and make sure they understand kind of what we do and how we do it. And so in that regard, that's why I think you've probably seen, I don't want to say slowness, but it's taken time for people to kind of operationalize their businesses. And so for us, it's a state that we're very focused on because, look, we see the density. We see the opportunity. And while it's a heavy lift to get things off the ground, you know, we think long-term it's going to be a fabulous market.
spk14: And just a follow-up that I guess on a market basis. one of the markets you guys aren't in that wouldn't be material to your overall operations in isolation, but one that has a very favorable infrastructure is Arizona. So is that something you guys have considered? I know the multiples for some of these assets have gone, have been quite lofty, but again, a market that just sort of opened up for REC. So is that something you guys have actively been pursuing or a market you're interested in entering at any time soon? Hey, Matt, Ben.
spk17: you know we've looked at it we study it we know the operators good respect out there yeah just I'll just show you the card we think there are better places for us to put our capital but if there's something super cheap and super great and they need our brands and our products and it's a great return on invested capital you have our phone number and that's really the attitude around here but we think there are Our business is who we are, what we're targeting. It's not at the top of the list.
spk14: Okay. Thanks, Paul.
spk17: Thanks, Matt. Thanks, everybody, for joining. We'll be back with the first quarter results in May. Have fun.
spk06: Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.
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