Harvia Oyj

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Harvia's Q1 2024 earnings webcast. My name is Mattias Järenfelt. I'm the CEO of the group, and with me, I have Ari Vesterinen, our CFO. Hi. To begin with the presentation, I will cover first the highlights of the quarter, and after me, Ari will be covering the financials in more detail. First, top line. Our revenue increased by 2.3% to 42.4 million euros. Organic growth was 1.4%. During the quarter, we had some negative impact from the political strikes taking place in Finland. The sales results were supported by strong sales development outside Europe, both in North America and our APAC Middle East and Africa regions. On the other hand, we faced some severe headwinds in Northern Europe. Market continued to stabilize in Central Europe. However, the level of demand in Central Europe continues to be below its normal long-term potential. Our good performance in North America continued to support our sauna room sales, since the majority of our business is selling complete sauna kits or sauna rooms to the markets. On the other hand, weakness in Northern European business impacted especially our equipment business, namely wood burning heater sales. Profitability and cash flow was on a strong level. Quarter one adjusted operating profit was 10.1 million euros, which is around 9% more than quarter one before last year. Adjusted operating profit margin was around 24%. Cash flow continued to be on a high level and cash conversion was 95%. We were able to deliver these strong profit and cash flow results due to high performance in our operations, as well as our commercial execution, including pricing management to optimize for both sales and margin. At the same time, we also saw support from inflation being less in some of the key materials, gases and components in certain key markets of ours. Going forward, we have heavy focus on driving growth. We already have a strong level of profitability and a key lever for us to drive the value of the company is to scale the business up. And we have been implementing a number of activities during quarter one. One of them is that we've acquired land around our Northern American factory, which will support the continued development of the site for the years to come. We have also implemented our new organizational structure, effective 1st of January, and it has started well. And overall, we stay very positive in terms of long-term outlook for the business where we are. A bit more detail for the quarter one results. As said, revenue was 42.4 million. That's one million euros more than the quarter one last year. At comparable exchange rates, revenue increased by 2.7% and organic revenue growth was, as mentioned, 1.4%. The difference between organic and overall revenue growth is due to our rather small acquisition of Phoenix Elmec, a component manufacturer in Italy last year. Operating profit was 9.9 million euros and adjusted operating profit, as said, 10.1 million euros, which is roughly 800,000 more than the year before. And relative profitability increased by 1.4 percentage points to 23.8%. At comparable exchange rates, the adjusted operating profit was 10.2 million and 24% of the revenue. Earnings per share during the quarter were 40 euro cents, and that compares to 34 euro cents year before. Operative free cash flow was 11.1 million euros. We are very solid. Net debt was 26.5 million and our leverage is 0.6. The rationale here is that we feel that there's plenty of opportunities for growth in the market, both organic and inorganic, and we want to make sure that we have war chest to invest when the opportunity arises. Equity ratio was 52.4%. During the quarter, we've continued to implement systematically our strategy. Increasing the value of average purchase essentially means that we want to get more money out of every sauna built or every sauna renovated. One key part of that strategy is continuing to sell our full sauna kits or sauna solutions. And the Northern American performance is heavily driven by our success here. Also, we have been selling well our premium range of offering during the quarter, especially in Central Europe, where we see on average higher prices for the equipment compared to, for example, our Northern European region. And we are definitely working on an ongoing basis to deliver in the future even more exciting innovations to the market supporting this strategy. In terms of geographical expansion, over the past years we've expanded our distribution and currently our products are sold in around 90 countries. Right now our key priority is to make sure that we drive actively market making and take share in the most important markets. For example, US and Japan being examples. And I'm very happy to see that the results of this systematic work is also bearing fruit, as can be seen in our performance, for example, in the US. And Japan was a key driving force for our growth in APEC Middle East and Africa. At the same time, we recognize that still majority of our business is coming from Europe, and it's very important that we are able to turn it back to sustainable growth, and we are implementing a number of activities to support our European business in the quarters to come. One core pillar of our competitive advantage is that we are able to produce products that markets want and do that in a sensible, effective manner. There our operative performance plays a key role. And again, I would like to thank our team in Harvia for delivering such strong results again during this quarter. And we've continued also developing our capabilities for future improvements in productivity. As mentioned, we also acquired land around our West Virginia factory so that we can continue to invest both to continue to modernize production and also increase capacity as a market demand requires. And the new organization model became effective from 1st of January, and I'm happy to report that it has started to perform well. Here we can see the geographical and product group split of our revenue. As communicated during last year, we changed somewhat our geographical segments. Now we have four regions, Northern Europe, which consists of the Nordic countries, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, as well as the Baltic countries, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania. It also includes Iceland. The green one here is continental Europe that includes Germany and the other European countries. Red is North America and yellow is APAC Middle Eastern Africa. Here you can see that 60% of our revenue came from the European regions. 28% came from Northern Europe and 32% came from continental Europe. The biggest shifts in this picture is that the Northern European weight of our total revenue distribution was less than the year before. One year ago it was 34% and this year 28%. And on the other hand, Northern American roll continued to grow from 27% of our revenue last year to 32% this year. And some slight increase also in our APAC and Middle East in terms of the share of the total pie. Revenue by product group still continues to be dominated by what I would call equipment business, mainly selling heating equipment and control units. Blue one is saunas and Scandinavian hot tubs. The sales for saunas and Scandinavian hot tubs was supported by our strong performance in Northern America. However, Scandinavian hot tub sales declined, and that's why the share did not change too much compared to last year. So here we can see the regional sales development. And of course, there's one glaring exception in this picture, which the red on Northern Europe declining by 2.4 million euros compared to quarter one last year that 17% declined. This is basically a combination of a number of things. One is that in Northern Europe, the biggest market for us is Finland. And in Finland, construction market and also property market are at very low levels. And typically when consumers make a sound renovation, it has to have a trigger event like a move. Another trigger event, of course, is building a new house. And, you know, because of the property market and construction market being on a low level, that does have an impact. Another big market for us in Northern Europe is Sweden, where as mentioned already in our quarter four report during last year, there is a significant customer channel shift taking place as one of our key customers is restructuring their retail network in Sweden. On the other hand, we see a great development in Northern America and our Northern American business has already, is basically from 2019 to 23, it's four times as big and it continued to grow again by nearly 24%. Of course, this is a great performance and heavily supportive to our business and will continue to play a strong role in our strategy also going forward. APEC and Middle East and Africa also grew over 20%, and the main market driving this performance is Japan. We have been also taking a very active role in driving market through our Harvia Japan Limited joint venture. Continental Europe remained flat compared to last year. Revenue by product group now not so big red marks anymore compared to, for example, some of the reports during the last year and more of blue, which is, of course, great. Saunas and Scandinavian hot tubs grew by half a million. That's 5% compared to last year. And as I said, sauna room sales grew more than that and Scandinavian hot tub sales declined. Accessories and heater stones also performed pretty well during the quarter. Now let's look at then our quarterly performance, both in terms of revenue and adjusted operating profit since 21 to this year. One of the things that you could draw your attention to is the fact that when we compared the quarters last year to this year, we can see that the biggest quarter during 23 was quarter one. And that was the only quarter during last year where we sold more than 40 million worth of, delivered more than 40 million worth of revenue. And we increased that. Looking at quarter two and quarter three from last year, we can see that the base in terms of comparison figures is much lower. Another point to make is regarding quarter one performance is that actually with 42.4 million euros, it's the second highest quarter one ever, with the exception being the quarter one 2022, which was the all time high at nearly 51 million euros. In terms of adjusted operating profit, we delivered 10.1 million euros, and that's more than during any of the quarters during last year. We see plenty of opportunities for Harvia to grow. One of them is that we want to play in all of the three global sauna types, that's the Nordic sauna, the steam sauna and infrared sauna, and also play more of the solutions game, which is a strategic priority for us. And right now, most of our revenue comes from selling equipment to the Nordic sauna. And the shift to solutions is supportive to our long-term growth ambitions. And in the coming years, we have ambition to significantly grow also our business in infrared and steam saunas. And the strategic priorities, we continue to drive them systematically. Increasing the average purchase value said is essentially we want to get more money out of any sauna built or renovated. Geographical expansion is very much about being active in market making, in markets that matter, and productive improvement continues to be in the heart of our strategy also going forward. Now, Ari, you can go through the finances more in detail. Yeah, thank you.

Okay, here we have the comparison table of the most important finances. Okay, the revenue grew 2.3 percent. This is the accounting revenue. There is something in the background also. Last year we had really the pipeline quite empty. Order stock very well shipped at the end of March. Now we shifted for certain reasons. The strikes in the harbors and Also, for the sake of effectiveness, some sales did a quarter too, so this describes just the accounting numbers, but the effect is, well, over one million at least in the comparison between the two years. But yeah, we are reporting the accounting numbers. Then what is important is here to see how the adjusted operating profit has improved in relation to the sales. We were having a 2.3% increase in the sales, but the adjusted operating profit increased almost 9%. So our effectiveness of the company has been improving quite nicely. This time it came, if you compare the interim report line by line, mainly from the difference in the material and service costs. We have been not anymore facing so strong inflation. as in the past and we have quite good pricing power in respect of the sales prices. So we have been improving our material matching quite nicely still. Then the basic earnings per share has been improving also clearly more than the sales increased. That's due to certain actions in tax planning and other like financing costs which have been going down thanks to the good cash position which has been invested to earn some interests. Net debt has gone down substantially compared to last year, and that's because of the strong cash position and tight control of the net working capital, which has also gone down about 9 million compared to last year. and couple of millions compared to end of last year. So the company has very strong financials, good profitability, and we are really happy about the situation where we are now after the recovery years from the COVID and so forth. As you see, we have been also able and willing to employ more people. For Harvia Group end of last year we had 605 employees, now 20 more after three months. So we are growing in production and in operations. Here we see the development of the cash conversion and the free cash flow. It's always been very strong in Harvia and that development continued also this quarter. As we see from the left-hand picture, the interest-bearing net debt and leverage have been going down quite rapidly. The peak time in Q3 2022 was after the acquisition of the EOS minority last 20%, and after that we have been earning quite well money. and controlling our networking capital, not having too high investments volumes, so we are going down with the net debt quite rapidly. Actually, we had end of Q3 altogether 1.5 million cash and we try to earn also interest with that but it's also, as Mattias mentioned, to be prepared for potential acquisitions. We would have, of course, the opportunity to also pay back the loans, but we don't do it right now. The net financial items have been quite stable, even if the interest rates have gone up, but since we have some cash earning also interest income, so that stabilized the situation a little. Here we see the investments in tangible and intangible assets. They have been growing in Q1 2024, and that's mainly due to the investment in the plot of land in US around our current factory 8.7 hectares roughly. So we have their opportunity to expand the factory and the logistic facilities also in future. The distribution of the shares has changed quite much compared to last year. One year ago we had about 5% less international investors, 39.5% and now 44%. So the international investment funds have shown great interest towards Harvia and they have been investing again in Harvias shares. The share which has gone down are the Finnish households. Now there are about 28% of the shares in Finnish households, and it was almost 6% more a year ago in this time. And you can see that development also from the right picture, how the amount of the shareholders, there are mainly small shareholders, households, private people, that amount of shareholders has gone down. But at the same time, the market value of the shares has increased from roughly 410 million to 720 million. The Harvia's long-term financial targets, as you may know, we target average annual revenue growth exceeding 5% and profitability over 20% adjusted operating profit margin, which we exceeded clearly during Q1 also. and the leverage target is between 1.5 to 2.5. Now we were at 0.6, so we've been quite strong in cash and that means also that the leverage, we are under the leverage range currently. Harvia pays regularly increasing dividends and biannually. We had the organizational management changes from the 1st of January, as Mattias said, and that has been implemented very well and we are now going forward based on the new organization for geographical regions and EOS as a special brand and then the group functions and Internally in the management level we are also reporting and targeting the results on that level. And Jennifer Thayer has also studied very well in US to manage the US business. We had actually last week the AGM, Annual General Meeting of Harvia, and the Annual General Meeting approved, based on the Board of Directors' proposal, €68 per share to be paid as dividends, and the remainder of the distributional funds be transferred to shareholders' equity. And the first installment will be paid actually beginning of next week, 34 euro cents. And the other 34 euro cents will be paid in late October 24. Okay, questions. We have had some questions here coming through the chat and I start just from the beginning and you can answer, I can answer and so forth. Any comments from the start of infrared saunas under almost heaven saunas in the US?

I think it's a bit early to comment on that. Overall we see plenty of opportunities for a strong role for Harvia also in infrared saunas in the US market. We know that infrared plays a very significant part of the US overall sauna market and that by being mainly focused on the traditional saunas in the US, has limited our market potential. And we are determined to change that. We see that there's plenty of very interesting differentiation opportunities for us in the infrared. Of course, one example is so-called multimode saunas that, you know, sauna cabins that come with both traditional heater and also infrared panels. But, you know, key competitive advantage for us compared to the current competition is that, you know, we have a very efficient production facility in West Virginia. And we have certainly plans to offer high quality, very attractive, innovative, made in America, infrared saunas in America going forward.

Also a US-related question. Do you have more local production in the US than the competition? Could this become a competitive advantage?

We have a very significant production facility in the scale of Harvia in Lewisburg, West Virginia, as mentioned. And you can probably read between the lines that the acquisition of land around that manufacturing facility is really opening up interesting opportunities for us to keep investing in our operational capabilities there. In terms of the heating equipment manufacturing, we actually don't do it at the moment in the US, but of course also something that we will be assessing on an ongoing basis. Overall, we feel that compared to our main competitors, we are very well positioned in terms of our manufacturing capability in the US, and we, as I said, are determined to keep investing in this and making sure that we stay ahead of competition.

When do you think the Swedish distribution issue can normalize?

Of course, this is something that is really driven by our essential key customer, and it's related to this customer actually closing down their consumer-focused store chain. My personal assessment is that it will take the whole year before the kind of new distribution landscape really kind of settles in Sweden.

Where have you been hiring the most people during Q1? What countries or tasks? Do you see the need to hire more people in coming quarters?

Well, essentially, you know, we are a growth-focused company. And, you know, some of the increase in the headcount that you saw there is related to increase in production volume. So that's under direct labor. But we've also invested in indirect labor that basically is, for example, sales, it's innovation and product development. And, you know, the investment in people is really, I would say, balanced between different capability areas of Harvia. One part of our strategy is to strengthen our regional presence. We can see that, for example, in the US or in Japan, the fact that we have feet on the ground and are more active in really, I would say, taking control of our destiny in important markets does pay off. And our regional presence is something that we keep investing. Another area which we expect to keep investing in terms of kind of fixed cost or indirect labor is R&D, because we really see opportunity to broaden our portfolio. We talk about infrared, we talk about multimode saunas, we talk about steam, etc. And these products will not come from nowhere. We need to have the people who are experts in these areas. So we do plan to keep investing in these areas.

In the interim report, there is also one section, personal, and there you see also the changes of the headcount, full-time equivalents in different companies. And also one source of the increase in the headcount is the unit in Italy, 11 persons. A year ago, we didn't have it yet, but as Mattias said, we are planning to hire more people and we need them, definitely. How much is the impact of strikes in Q1 in euros? In which segment sales this is visible? Is that maybe something you can... Well, this is a bit soft area, because there is always some shift of sales from one month to other. And there we had also Easter, the long holiday season at the end of March. By the way, The main wood-burning sauna heater season normally starts after Easter in Scandinavia. But we have to just estimate, and we don't have the exact figures, but let's say in the middle of March, I estimated that shift from March to April to be about half a million or something like that. And actually now when we look back to the shipments, what we didn't do, we piled them together and tried to organize the transfer as effective as possible and logistically wise. I estimate that that shift was about one till two million at the end of quarter one. But as I said, this is not an exact accounting figure, this is just an estimate. Yeah, that's another question to the same topic. So it was partly strikes, but partly also the seasonality and the calendar position of Easter holidays. Did the strikes in Finland postpone shipments or were the losses permanent?

Well, maybe I can comment since you already know. No permanent. So we should be seeing a positive impact in our quarter two figures. Essentially, it was, you know, timing, as Ari mentioned. Overall, we, in my mind, have managed the situation towards our customers in a very professional manner. And we've seen a lot of understanding from our customers and the assessment is that there's not really a big damage done to our customer relationship or the customer's business.

Ignoring the soft market environment, what are the main bottlenecks holding back your growth?

Well, Of course, you know, when we look at the figures, we can see that our outside European regions are performing very well. And they are, of course, you know, they have become also in terms of absolute numbers so important for us that continued growth in those areas, of course, is very critical. And that's why we systematically keep investing in increasing our commercial presence and also matching our supply chain that we can effectively meet the needs of those regions. We're also broadening our portfolio at the moment. I would say we are somewhat limited with our portfolio since it's so heavily skewed towards the Nordic sauna and we need to invest in a broader portfolio for infrared and steam in the coming years. Around 60% of our sales is currently coming from Europe and given its large weight in our revenue portfolio, it's important that we also make that market move. And it's at the moment quite significantly impacted by the market conditions, but we are certainly working very hard to make sure that, you know, what's in our control, we do as best as possible and drive these regions also back to growth.

Eight percent of revenues come from the APEC-MEA region. When do you expect the Japan joint venture to bear fruit in terms of significant revenue growth in that area?

I would say already now. Of course, the starting levels in terms of absolute figures has been fairly small, but it has been growing fast. And, you know, looking at the 23% growth we delivered in APEC-MEA, majority of it came from Japan. So it's very pleasing actually to see that areas where we continue, decide to focus on and really drive determined action, it does yield results. And this just increases our confidence level that we are of course, you know, discussing internally whether we could multiply this approach in some other significant sized Asian markets to really scale the business in Asia up. So it has basically two kind of contributions to us. One in terms of absolute numbers, it starts to turn the needle in Japan. And the other one, it's a great learning platform for us, which we hope to scale also in other markets.

On the investment made in North America, how do you see capacity evolve over the next years?

In the US, our business has really multiplied in size. 2019 to 23, our revenue, actually we are four times as big as in 2019, and we continue to grow this year. We already made quite significant investment in our capacity in 21. And we are again seeing a need that we need to invest more into the site to fulfill the very positive demand in the market. There are many ways for us to manage demand. One is that what we are doing, that during even the kind of lower seasons, like quarter two and quarter three, typically a bit lower in sales, we actually keep the production lines running full steam, building inventories that we can then sell and deliver during the hot sell-out seasons like quarter four and quarter one. So this is of course one means for us to make sure that we have the goods available when there's demand in the marketplace. But it is clear that we also need to in the coming years increase our capacity as the demand keeps growing.

In light of your biggest competitor in Finland, Sauna360, being acquired by Basko, do you think you'll eventually become a potential target for bigger players in the home improvement or leisure sector, especially in Northern America?

Well, of course, we've taken note of the acquisition of Sauna360 by Masco, which is a large US-based stock listed company. And there was another quite significant acquisition made by Kohler that's a privately held similar sized company as Masco. And they bought Cluffs, a large competitive hours, in particular in a high end sauna cabin business in Europe. To us, this is a signal of a few things. One is that This is an interesting market, which has interesting long-term growth dynamics. That's the reason why big players are also eyeing on this market. I will not comment on Harvia being on anyone's target list, but it is clear that we have certainly our own target list, because we see that there is a clear opportunity for consolidation in this still quite fragmented market. If you think about sauna products and solutions market, Harvia being last year 150 million top line business, and we are the market leader, and we talk about multi-billion business, it tells that how fragmented this business still continues to be. And with our brand, with our operational efficiency, best practices, financial position allowing for investment, we feel that we have a great opportunity to be a real consolidator in the market. And that is something that we stay focused on our own game, both in organic growth, in operational efficiency, improving our product portfolio and completeness and competitiveness, and also looking actively at the acquisition market.

I can probably answer the next question. Could you explain why the general meeting rejected the revised remuneration policy for the company's governing bodies? As the resolution is advisory, what will be the consequences? Well, first of all, this compensation remuneration policy was well passed through the AGM in 2020, when it was represented last time. And the only change what was made after that time was the percentage of the of the annual bonuses, theoretical annual bonuses for the CEO of the company. It was raised from 50% to 100% and that's really just an option for future and as you may have noticed we had also the remuneration report in our annual report and it passed the the AGM very well, so it was well accepted and we are still in the same practices in practice than what was stated in that report. But there was a new option and probably new climate also among the, let's say, voting proxies about these remuneration policies and parallel to that our board of directors has also set up a new personal and compensation committee which will certainly thoroughly analyze the situation and the normal practice is that next year in the spring 25 the company will introduce the the remuneration policy again to the AGM, and let's see what happens then. So, let's see if we have other new questions here. Okay, Japan related also, but I ask it once more. Will your joint venture with Japan give you a chance to enter the onsen market even indirectly?

Well, Japan overall is a very interesting market. As the person asking the question correctly pointed out, it has a very long geothermal spa history, so onsen. And that's, I believe, one of the reasons why the uptake of sauna, this healing with heat philosophy, is so well received in Japan. Actually, Harvey is a company which has ample of growth dimensions, growth opportunities. In the long term, I see really opportunities in more kind of, I would say, spa direction as well. But even in the, I would say, core sauna market where we talk about steam, infrared, traditional Nordic saunas, but more in a solutions centric way of selling. There's a lot of growth opportunities, geographical expansion and really taking a stronger market maker role in big countries. It is just about prioritization. It's managing our resources, making sure that when we focus on something, we really get results and get it done. And, you know, what I don't see for us is that we try to kind of spread our wings too far apart and then our resources might be too thin. It's better to concentrate on the key battles that we really want to win now in the coming years. And essentially they are North America, key markets in Asia, bringing Europe back to growth and strengthening our solutions business for Nordic saunas and strengthening our position in infrared and steam.

Okay. What do you think needs to happen to Nordic European sales to recover?

Well, the northern European situation is actually quite interesting. It's not just one thing that's affecting it. There are a number of things. One, of course, is the construction and property market. If you think about the northern European market that we report, by far the majority is one country, it's Finland. And in Finland, of course, construction market is significantly down. And also because the property market is down, people are not moving that much. So of course, one thing that would really support us is that construction and property market starts to pick up again. you know, visibility for, you know, more stable and maybe lower interest environment than, you know, during the past couple of years for sure would be helpful for us. And then I said, you know, there's some what I would call one-time changes that, you know, big customers is rearranging their distribution in Sweden. that I would take in the assumption, as mentioned, that it will still impact our business in Sweden during this year. At the same time, we are really pushing innovation. We are broadening our distribution. We, for example, in the Swedish market, now that our key partner for consumer driven hardware retail is changing its strategy, we actively you know, building new partnerships there. So there is certainly a lot of activities ongoing. Actually, then there are some, you know, things that, you know, are pretty much beyond anyone's control, like, you know, actually we had a really, I would say, long and arctic winter in Finland this year. And one of the key drivers for the quarter one sales in Finland traditionally is the wood burning heaters for the summer cottages. And the cottage season now because of the winter conditions really has shifted from like starting already in March to now really starting in April. So that's of course something that was out of our control. So years are not always equal. But we are certainly vigilant, building our capabilities. So when the property and construction market starts to revive, we have what it takes to strike back.

Is there a need to increase marketing spend in the US or does the social media channels and worth of mouth work as well?

I would say we are very lucky that the category where we play is very interesting for media and also for celebrities. So you can, for example, take an exercise, go to Google and see our seven, that's Cristiano Ronaldo, sauna, Instagram. And you'll see plenty of Cristiano's pictures that he's posted himself in Instagram stories. And as you might know, it would be very expensive for Javier to pay for posts like this. And it's of course not just Cristiano, but there's Kim Kardashian's and Neymar's and Lady Gaga's, et cetera. So there's a lot of celebrities that create kind of market visibility that is worth actually tens, maybe even hundreds of millions of dollars. At the same time, yes, I do see that there is some need for us to strengthen our marketing investments also in strategic markets. We want that Harvia really becomes a true brand that is more widely known than just, you know, I would say within the within the kind of professionals within the sector and kind of real sauna enthusiasts over time hopefully Harvia will really be maybe not the household brand as such but still you know something that consumers do and do recognize and appreciate as a real quality brand for healthy lifestyle.

Okay. Outside of Nordic countries, Japan and US, which seem to be the hottest markets for you, what is a country that has emerged in the last few years, let's say post-COVID, as particularly promising growth-wise?

There are actually many. I can take some examples. If you go to, for example, Asia, Australia has performed very well. Again, starting from low base but developing very nicely. There, the key logic is that you look at the US and then you'll see some years later the same thing happening in Australia. So kind of the sauna boom in US seems to spill over to Australia in a very positive way for us. There are good developments in a number of other markets as well. So when we look at, for example, China, At the moment, the main purpose for China in our business at the moment is that we have one factory there that is also exporting internationally. So it's actually a more important manufacturing country for us. but increasingly it starts to be a kind of a market for domestic demand as well. So we see certainly opportunities there. So there are a number of examples. And I could say even like place like India, which is just huge country. And you could think that, wow, it's a very hot country. But then again, still, you know, when we look at the U.S. as an example, we see Florida always summer, Texas always summer, South California always summer. And they are great places for our sauna business. And we interestingly see also increasing interest in places like India.

Okay. Thank you very much. We don't have any further questions in the chat. Thank you for following. Let's stay in touch. Thank you very much.