Intesa Sanpaolo Spa Ord

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the conference call of Intensa San Paolo for the presentation of the third quarter 2025 results, hosted today by Mr. Carlo Messina, Chief Executive Officer. My name is Nadia, and I will be your coordinator for today's conference. At the end of the presentation, there will be the question and answer session. To enter the queue for questions, please press star 1 1 at any time. You will then hear an automated message advising that your hand is raised. To withdraw a question, please press star 1 1 again. You are kindly invited to ask no more than two questions so as to leave room for other participants. In case of additional questions, the IR team will be at your disposal after the conference call. I remind you that today's conference call is being recorded. At this time, I would like to hand the call over to Mr. Carlo Messina, CEO. Sir, you may begin.

Thank you. Welcome to our nine-month 2025 results conference call. This is Carlo Messina, Chief Executive Officer, and I'm here with Luca Bocca, our CFO, and Marco Del Frato and Andrea Tamagnini, Investor Relations Officers. We just delivered our best-ever nine-month net income at 7.6 billion euros, of which 20.4 in Q3. Common equity TR1 ratio increased more than 100 basis points. Analyzed return on equity is 20%, and earnings per share grew 9%. These are excellent results, confirming we are well on track to deliver our full-year net income target of well above 9 billion euros. including Q4 managerial actions to strengthen future profitability. The nine months and the third quarter both recorded all-time highs for commissions and insurance income. Costs are down, asset quality remains top-notch, and customer financial assets grew to more than $1.4 trillion. We keep investing strongly in technology, enabling the acceleration of our workforce generational changes. This year, we are returning 8.3 billion euros to our shareholders, including the 3.2 billion interim dividend to be paid in November. On top of this, an additional capital distribution will be quantified at the end. Our results once again confirm the resilience of our well-diversified business model, further validated by the EBA stress test where InterSanPaolo was a clear winner. This outstanding outcome reinforces our leaning position in Europe. This is also reflected in the two-notch upgrade by Fitch moving ISP above Italy and the one-notch upgrade by DBRS. Our strong profitability allows us to confirm a world-class position in social impact. to fight poverty and reduce inequalities. I'm proud of these results and thank our people for their excellent contribution. Now let's turn to slide one for the key achievement of the first nine months. In the first nine months, we delivered record high profitability and efficiency, MPL stock and ratios and historical lows strong capital growth, and high increasing and sustainable value creation. Slide number two. In this slide, you can see the impressive continuous growth in net income. Slide number three. In the first nine months, we delivered a significant increase in return on equity, earning per share, dividend per share, and tangible book value per share. In a few weeks, we will pay an interim dividend almost 10% higher than last year. Slide number four. In Q3, we confirmed our excellent organic capital generation capability with a 40 basis point increase in common equity tier one ratio. Slide number six. Net interest income has increased over 400 million compared with two years ago. despite a 90 basis points drop in Euribor. Euribor is now stabilizing at the level consistent with the normalized interest rate scenario, and our hedging strategy will continue to sustain net interest income in the coming quarters. Slide number six. Six. In the first nine months, commissions and insurance income grew 5%. Q3 performance was excellent, with 7% yearly growth and stable Q on Q despite the usual summer business slowdown. Slide number seven. We also managed to reduce costs despite tech investments reaching $5 billion. Slide number eight. As said, we are in a comfortable position to confirm our 2025 net income guidance of well above $9 billion. Moreover, we clearly have significant excess capital, giving us a lot of flexibility for growth and additional distributions. Slide number 9. Our performance allows us to benefit all our stakeholders. The new medium long-term lending to families and businesses grew 40% on an yearly basis. And let me just focus on the contribution to the public sector, because in taxes in the first nine months, we gave contribution for 4.6 billion euros. That is equivalent to the amount of the new taxation that the government is looking from the banking sector. In nine months, we paid the same amount. So contributing, hopefully, to social inequalities in the public sector. Slide number nine. Slide number 11, sorry. In a nutshell, in the first nine months, net income was up 6%. We accrued $5.3 billion in cash dividends. and we delivered a best-in-class common equity TR1 ratio growth. Please turn to the next slide for a closer look at our P&L. Slide 12. This slide shows the building block of our nine-month P&L with improved results across nearly all items. Please turn to the next slide for the third quarter results. Very briefly, in the third quarter, revenues were supported by the highest ever Q3 commissions and insurance income. We decided not to push on trading, keeping flexibility for the coming quarters. Costs were down on a yearly basis, and we increased MPL coverage. Please turn to slide 14 for a look at net interest income. We are firmly on track to deliver net interest income well above the 2023 level. Further growth is expected in 2026. Slide number 15. This slide provides more details on the net interest income evolution. The Q3 decline was mainly due to the further reduction in URIPOR and the impact from the six-month and one-year replacing of loans. Slide number 16, customer financial assets were up strongly on a yearly and quarterly basis. In Q3, we had 3 billion growth in retail current accounts and 10 billion growth in assets under management. Let's now move to slide 17. Slide 17, commission growth was driven by wealth management fees. We can count on our unmatched advisory net growth and our fully-owned product factories are a clear competitive advantage. Slide 18, the contribution from wealth management and protection activities is 43% of gross income and asset under management inflows are growing. Please turn to the next slide for a closer look at insurance income. Non-motor P&C contribution was the main driver for insurance income growth, and we still have significant upside potential. Slide 20. The contribution from commissions and insurance income to revenues is by far the highest in Europe after UBS. Please turn to slide 21 for a look at costs. Operating costs are down with personal costs decreasing 1% and administrative costs 1.5%. Slide 22. We have high flexibility to further reduce costs thanks to our tech transformation. By 2027, we will have 9,000 exits with savings of 500 million euros. Slide 23. We have a best-in-class cost-income ratio in Europe. Let's move to slide 24 for a look at our asset quality. Asset quality remained excellent, and we reduced the lowest ever MPL inflows. Slide 25, our MPL stock are clearly among the best in Europe. Slide 26, as you can see, we remain very well positioned in terms of stage two. Slide 27, our analyzed cost of risk is stable at 25 basis points with MPL coverage up to more than 51% and stable overlays. We see no signs of asset quality deterioration. Slide 28, our MPL coverage is clearly among the best in Europe. Slide 29, our Russia exposure is now less than 0.1% of the group's total loan with local loans close to zero. Slide 30, we have a rock-solid and increasing capital position with the TR1 ratio increased to 30.9%. Let's move to slide 31. ISP of the EBA stress test with a very low adverse scenario impact on our common equity tier one ratio. The next best performing peer showed an impact three times higher. In the next three slides, you have the usual update on our sound liquidity position and ESG actions. But let's move to slide 36 to see how ISP is fully equipped to succeed in any scenario. Slide 36, our profitability and capital position remains strong even in adverse conditions. We have a very resilient business model. Our asset quality is top notch and we have already deployed 5 billion in tech investments, including artificial intelligence. We are key enables for future efficient gains. Slide 37, Intel Sao Paolo stands out in Europe across key metrics and is better positioned than peers to face any future challenge. Slide 38, in this slide you can appreciate our unique positioning thanks to our commission driven and efficient business model. Let's move to slide 39 for a few words on the strength of the Italian economy. The Italian economy remains resilient and the recent upgrade of Italy's rating confirms the country's strength. We expect Italian GDP to grow this year and next. Slide 40. The Italian companies are in a stronger position today compared to the past. Their debt equity ratio has decreased over time, and their liquidity buffers are at all-time highs. Slide 32. 42, sorry. This slide offers a recap of our best-ever nine months and the reason why we are fully equipped to succeed in the future. To finish, please turn to slide 43. Slide 43. We are in a comfortable position to confirm our fully earned net income guidance. The nine-month performance once again demonstrates the quality of our business model. We are a sustainable 20% return on equity bank, one of the few in Europe able to combine high profitability with long-term strength. In Q3, we started putting away and continued in the fourth quarter to reinforce future profitability. We are delivering one of the highest capital returns and dividend yields in European banking, while maintaining a rock-solid capital position and continue to lead on social impact. At the same time, we are accelerating the generational change of our workforce, investing in new tech skills and new talent to ensure the group continues to grow and innovate in the coming years. Thank you for your attention, and we are now happy to take your questions.

Thank you so much. Dear participants, as a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, you need to press star 1 1 on your telephone keypad and wait for a name to be announced. To withdraw a question, please press star 1 and 1 again. You are kindly invited to ask no more than two questions, so to leave room for other participants. Please stand by, we'll compile the Q&A roster. This will take a few moments. And now we're going to take our first question. And it comes from the line of Antonio Reale from Bank of America. Your line is open. Please ask your question.

Hi, good afternoon. It's Antonio from Bank of America. Just a couple of questions for me, please. One on growth and the other one on capital distribution. So my first question is, well, what do you think it will take for a bank like yours to be able to show some long growth going forward and at the same time not dilute your 20% ROTE, so basically supporting growth while keeping the same level of profitability sustainable through time. The second question is to do with your capital. I think this quarter was a positive surprise, and I think yet it's not being rewarded by the market today. I think part of the issue might be that this excess capital has been trapped there in the bank, as you've been basically remunerating shareholders only from your earnings, almost 100% total payout, but you've not paid out the excess capital. The question is, could you consider paying shareholders also out of your excess capital? And related to that, I mean, you're no longer the highest paying cash dividend bank in terms of payout for what it's worth, really. Do you think it will make sense to pay more than 70% dividend payout, so tilting the mix even further towards cash dividends? Thank you.

So thank you, Antonio. The point on growth is something that we analyzed in comparison with the real potential of value creation. We are shifting a significant portion of our into very low default rate loans. So we reduced in a significant way the default rate of our portfolio. to close to 1% in the range of 07, 08. So the reduction was massive in the last year, and this will continue because we think that for a bank like us, mainly concentrated in wealth management and protection business model a significant sustainability in the earning power, what is important is to concentrate on the ability to not generate nonperforming loans in the future. So that means that the growth in loan book will be for sure accelerating, mainly in the sector export related and in the sector that are linked with the new generation, new funds. But in our perception, this will bring the growth in the range of 2%, 3% in 2026, but not more than this. So the main driver could be for sure for the recovery and growth in terms of net interest income because 2026 will be the long growth, but the acceleration will be part of a story that will balance also the cost of risk for the future. So that for us is fundamental. You know that Italian banks in the past had significant negative surprise from the loan book. We want to avoid to be in the case of future crisis to be again in the same position. That is why we are so concentrated in maintaining a net non-performing loans ratio very low and not diluting the coverage of the non-performing loans that for us is fundamental also to proceeds in further reduction of the stock because zero non-performing loans is the ideal way of working for a bank that is really focused on wealth management and protection like in . In terms of capital distribution, obviously, capital distribution and the excess capital is related with the business model because from one side, we have a very limited need of capital, so our capital related to unexpected losses today is very low because as you had the occasion to see in the EBA stress test, our resilience is really strong. So our real excess capital is really significant in comparison to the past and in comparison to all the other peers. At the same time, the capital distribution is something that we will reassess in the new business plan. We have a clear evidence of other players that are working on a payout ratio that is much higher cash dividend payout ratio that is much higher than the one that we have in inter-san paulo so this is something that we are evaluating and at the same time also the what we can do with the excess capital not only the the current excess capital but also the excess capital that we will generate in the next years because the run rate of 20% ROE bank will, by definition, create significant excess capital for the future. And this is part of what we are starting for the new business plan, but we have to discuss with the board of directors and then to propose and submit also to the supervisor. And then as soon as we have completed this process, at the beginning of February, we will announce a new dividend policy. But obviously, the capital, the excess capital, the real substantial excess capital is and we do not see any kind of M&A opportunity. So by definition, the capital is, the excess capital is of our shareholders.

Thank you, Antonio. And now we're going to take our next question. And the question comes in the line of Sophie Petersens from Goldman Sachs. Your line is open. Please ask your question.

Yes. Thank you very much for taking my question. This is Sophie from Goldman Sachs. My first question would be around net interest income. How should we think about the net interest income trough? Do you think it's fair to assume that net interest income will trough in the next one or two quarters? Or when do you expect net interest income to trough on a quarter-on-quarter basis? And also, if you could just remind us of your rate sensitivity and how do you think about the replicating portfolio tailwinds that we should expect for net interest income? And then my second question would be around the banking tax in Italy. How should we think about the potential banking tax or levy for Intehesa? Thank you.

So net interest income evolution, I want just to make a clear point on net interest income I read some point on net interest income that I think in this court needs to have some clarification. So when we gave the outlook on our net interest income, we gave a clear indication that the third quarter could have been a third quarter in which we can have a reduction in terms of net interest income in comparison to the second quarter. And the reason... is mainly related to the fact that we have in the third quarter a concentration and we had the concentration of repricing on the loan book. So we had the majority of our loan book that had made repricing during this quarter. We still remain only with 8 billion euros of loans that we repriced in the fourth quarter. So This is the real bottom that we reached in this quarter because we had an impact of roughly between repricing on a six-month and 12-month Euribor of 100 basis points on an amount of 50 billion Euros in this quarter. So this means that we had the peak of the negative contribution in this quarter, but was expected by us, so that was not a surprise. That is why we confirm our guidance, and also because the financing on the loan book will be only 8 billion euros, concentrated in a volume of loans of 8 billion euros, so very limited amount in comparison to our portfolio. So we think that in this quarter we can have a rebound in terms of net interest income, maintain the speed that will allow us to have in 2026 a net interest income that can increase. So that's our expectation on net interest income. On the other side, banking tax. On the banking tax, we obviously, for the real figure, we will have to wait until the final process in Parliament, so in which we will have the law approved. What I can tell you is that the impact that we can have both on net income and on Net equity from our side is totally manageable, and our commitment today are also including a potential impact coming from taxation. So absolutely not worried about this kind of impact.

Thank you. Thank you. Now we're going to take our next question. And the question comes line of Marco Nicolai from Jefferies. Your line is open. Please ask your question.

Good afternoon. So the first question is on insurance income. I see that it's picking up. So if I look at the year-on-year growth in the third quarter, it's actually improving quite a bit compared to the previous quarters. So can you tell us what's happening here and if we should expect for the future, you know, growth? the same level of year-on-year growth in this line in insurance income. And then another question on EasyTech. I just wanted to know where you stand in terms of the group transition to this new tech platform beyond the EasyBank customers. And So what do you expect in terms of efficiencies from this platform, both in terms of cost efficiencies and also in terms of revenues upside, let's say, from this platform? Thank you.

So thank you. On insurance, we are working in order to have a further acceleration business. The momentum is very positive, and the penetration is good. in such a position that can allow us also to have significant further increase because we increase penetration, but we remain with the penetration between 13 and 14%, and we think that there is room to have significant further penetration in the next year. So insurance is and will remain, and especially property and casualty insurance, is and will remain an engine for growth that for the group is really strategic. Also, if you look, the growth in terms of market share in the areas in which we are investing is really impressive. So we are increasing the value of this company and the value of the acceleration of the product between the different networks of the group and especially in the Banca de Territory network. EasyTech is for sure important for EasyBank and this will allow to have further potential increase in terms of clients, in terms of revenue. But let me focus on what is in reality for us EasyTech because EasyTech will be the pillar of the new business plan. EasyTech will be the key driver of The new plan, especially for the cost reduction, we think that the massive investments of the cloud and the possibility to write off the mainframe could be, the investments in mainframe could be the most important part of the story of a plan that will be a plan based on cost reduction and efficiency. So this will be the clear lever that we will use in order to gain competitive advantage, not only in terms of client revenues, but in terms of efficiency. So this will remain a strategic lever, and we will elaborate more in the presentation of the business plan.

When do you plan the presentation of the business plan again?

It should be in occasion of the results of the year end, so the beginning of February. Okay, thank you. Thank you.

Thank you so much. And now we're going to take our next question. Just give us a moment. And the question comes from . Your line is open. Please ask your question.

Thanks very much for the presentation and for taking my questions. I have two questions, if I may. The first one is on fees, looking to wealth management fees and looking to the assets inflows in the quarter. I've seen a very strong performance despite the summer seasonality. I just wanted to get a bit of a sense of how you think fees will go through in coming quarters and the progression of shift from AUC to AUM, how you see your clients on that step. The second one is on the capital movement in the quarter. If you could elaborate a bit more on the RWA improvement, the 10 basis points. Was there anything related to models linked to that? Should we expect any heat from operational RWAs in the fourth quarter? Thank you.

Okay, so starting from fees, we expect to have a very good performance also in the next quarter by definition. So fourth quarter will be a quarter in which our expectation is to have a growth, a significant growth in terms of fee and commissions, but also in acceleration during the year of the business plan. In the plan, we are planning to reinforce the ability to make conversion in terms of asset under administration and also the portion of time deposits that will expire during the period of the plan. We are increasing, and we will elaborate on the presentation of the business plan, but I can anticipate the amount that is workable is really massive and increased in comparison with the 100 billion euros that originally we gave as the workable, real workable part that we gave to our network. We are increasing this amount and they will start in 2026 to work with the target that there will be selective client by client. But this is and will remain an area in which we can deliver organically a significant growth in terms of fee and commissions. In terms of capital movements, we had in this quarter benefits in terms of risk-weighted assets. It's also related to this reinforcement of the quality of our loan book, so the reduction in terms of default rate as allow us to improve the condition of the risk-weighted assets. And this is part of the story that was mentioned before. This will continue to be part of our story. And we think that this can give satisfaction also during 2026. In terms of the trend for the last quarter, we will have a further positive evolution in terms of capital ratio, that's our expectation, and we will compensate an increase in operational risk that can come from the revenues average of the last five years, because you know that three years, because you know that... The rule in which you can calculate the risk on a standard basis is based on three revenues. And so we had, like all the other banks in Europe, an increase in revenue. So this will bring an increase, but will be more than compensated by the other reduction in interest-weighted assets.

Thank you. Now we're going to take our next question. And the question comes line of Britta Schmidt from Autonomous Research. Your line is open. Please ask your question.

Yeah, hi there. Thank you for taking my questions. Just coming back on net interest income, you mentioned that hedging means that you can sustain this net interest income for the coming quarters. So should we read into this that this is the level we should expect unless we see loan growth pick up? And just a clarification, what is in the other net interest income that declined in the quarter? Is that related to NPLs or is there anything else in there? And then on capital, just two clarifications, please. I think there was a plateau increase of around 15 basis points. Maybe you can give us some color as to why that increased and whether you could just confirm that any insurance dividends are yet to be recorded in your capital. And maybe if you have an impact on that, that will be helpful as well. Thank you.

Luca Bocca will answer to your questions.

Okay. I can start with NII. NII, we will have some decrease in the quarter in the financial component, but is related to the classical situation in that line that are MPLs and NII. the difference between loan and deposit, so the capital that is a non-interest in bearing asset liabilities, so is something that is normal, that decreases during a negative trend in the euro, but it will remain stable in the next quarters. And according to the question to insurance income, you are right, we are in Danish compromise, The RWA of insurance income is included in the credit risk, and during the quarter we can have the payment of a dividend to decrease the level of RWA related to that kind of line. And this is one of the measures of optimization that we can have during the fourth quarter to compensate the increase in operational risk.

Thank you, Britta. Now we're going to take our next question. And the question comes to the line of Andrea Filtri from Mediobank. Your line is open. Please ask your question.

Thank you. The first question is if you could give us a sort of sensitivity of your fees to the market's performance, and the second is, I'm unbiased view on Italian M&A. There are articles every day on the combinations, potential combinations in Italy. How do you see the end game looking like in terms of market structure for the Italian market? Thank you.

So looking at the sensitivity to the market performance, our expectation is In case of a reduction of interest rate, we can increase our fee efficiency income in a significant way because this calculation is made moving through the capital gain embedded in our asset under administration that we can switch, that we can ask our clients to switch into asset under management. We think that in case of a reduction of 50 basis points of Euribo, the increase could be in the range of some hundred million euros of commissions. This will depend on the kind of portfolio, a significant portion of the portfolio of our clients with the reduction of 50 basis points. could become significantly capital gain positive. So in case of potentials which we can accelerate the growth of our fee and commissions income in terms, that's very important for the gross income, the gross inflows, not only for the net inflows. So in case of a reduction, we are really positive. In case of an increase in interest rate, Until the level of the 50 basis point, our expectation, we will remain more or less on the same level. This will depend also on the market performance of the equity markets. Then we will see what can happen. Our base case is that our fee and commissions can increase in a significant way during 2026 and 2027. Looking at the M&A environment in Italy, I have to tell you that I don't think that there will be some significant move in the next months. During 2026, we will see what can happen for the other competitors that didn't close deal during 2026. In any case, in terms of power law, will be not part of any kind of consolidation in the banking and insurance framework.

Thank you. Now we're going to take our next question. And it comes to the line of Andrea Lisi from Equita. Your line is open. Please ask your question.

Good afternoon. The first question is if you can already provide us an indication on the managerial action you are aiming to put in place in the fourth quarter, especially given your indication regarding the new business plan that will be a plan of further efficiencies, and so if you can provide some color on them. The second is if you can provide an update of your direct digital platform from 2026, how is evolving the collaboration with BlackRock to create a new digital wealth management platform for European private and Afghan clients? What should we expect and what should we have updates? And how should we meet in your international growth in this segment? Thank you.

So looking at the managerial elections, we will obviously wait for the final figures of 2025 in order to define the managerial election, and the focus will be on the sustainability of future results. The first part of the job will be on the cost base, so this will mean that we will work areas in which we can anticipate some cost reduction that we can have for the future. So making some write-off in some areas in which we can improve profitability mainly related to the IT system cost base. This will be the majority of the efforts that we are doing in terms of studying the potentiality. Then we still have a significant number of people that asked to leave the organization at the timing of our agreement and we didn't, we were not in a position to allow them to leave the organization. At the same time, we remain also with some areas of potential reinforcement also on the credit if this will bring to a potential reduction in terms of risk for the future. And so we will also work in this part of the story, considering that we are in a very good position in terms of rate of the cost of risk. So these are the most important areas in which we will concentrate in order to evaluate the managerial actions. On the BlackRock, I will ask Luca to answer to your question.

Yes, the partnership is continuing to develop. In Italy, Aladin solution is fully operative on all the different clients that we have, especially in the private banking division. So you see the very good performance in commission are also driven to the excellent level of service that we offer to the Italian client. On the European platform, we are planning, as you can see at page 60, to launch the platform not only in Belgium, but also in four quarters of this year, and some hundreds of millions of new products Financial asset can arrive in the next quarter, but again, in the business plan, we will provide also number on this kind of lever. Anyway, we are starting to have also new inflow of money in Belgium and Luxembourg.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Now we're going to take our next question. And it comes from Andrew Coombs from Citi. Your line is open. Please ask your question.

a couple of numbers questions. Firstly, just on the trading income, the client contribution was fairly stable, but the capital markets a fair bit weaker. If you could elaborate on what drove that swing in the capital markets trading results. And then the second question, just coming back to the deposit hedge on slide 15, you talk about 2.5 billion maturing a month, so close to 30 billion a year. If I take that, it implies the entire book would turn over in about five and a half years. So your average duration would be just shy of three, and Nick, you said it's four. So if you can just help me square the circle on that one, please. Thanks.

So on the trading income, we had some negative mark-to-market, especially in some participation, mainly we can mention the Euronext participation that was really strong positive in the last quarters and in this has reduced the positive contributions. So this is the most important part of these items in the trading income. Then in any case, we decided to be very conservative in order not to force profitability in this quarter because we have already reached the level of our profitability that we want to deliver this year. And so we are already to prepare for the new business plan. In the second question, I will ask Luca.

The duration is four years because it is the average duration based on the different buckets that we cover with the different levels of our stable deposit. So it's four years with a repricing of more or less $3 billion every month in the region of $9 billion annually. uh every every quarter so it's something that you need to wait for the different bucket of our deposit in any case you can assume a repricing at the level of today of 10 basis points more or less every quarter and this is the reason why we are another increase in the yield of our edging portfolio in the 2026 of around 400 million of positive contribution.

Thank you. And now we're going to take our last question for today. Just give us a moment. And it comes to the line of Delphine Lee from JP Morgan. Your line is open. Please ask your question.

Yes, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my questions. Just two on my side. So I just wanted to ask on fees. You've had a very strong year, fees growing mid-single digits, but that includes wealth management fees growing double digits. Going forward, do you think you can continue to achieve the same kind of levels? Or just, you know, if you can give us any color of how you're thinking about the moving parts within fees. And then my second question is just a follow-up. I can't remember if you responded to the question, but another question around the cash dividend payout. Considering other banks, other Italian banks are looking at increasing meaningfully their dividend payout ratio, is this something you're considering as part of your new business plan. Thank you very much.

So on fees, I can confirm you that we are working in order to have a double-digit growth in terms of wealth management and commissions. This is and will be part of the strategic story of the group. and the increase in terms of amount of asset under administration and the policies that can be transformed into asset under management and the increase in people that we will have during the business plan, global advisors and the 360 degree services, this will bring us to have The trend in terms of fee and commissions income that is and will remain the most important part of the story of our business model. In terms of cash dividend payout, as I told in the first question, I think that this will be evaluated with all the new dividend policy of the group. It is clear that until some months ago, we were the best in class in terms of cash dividend pay. Today, there are other players that can be considered as part of benchmarking that we can analyze in terms of evaluating the new dividend policies. But do not forget that that we will have to deal also with a significant excess capital. So the mix between that can pay out and the share buyback will be part of the new dividend policy. But 70% will be a minimum for sure.

Great. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Dear speakers, there are no further questions for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management team for any closing remarks.

Thank you very much, and we will have the occasion to have also the analysis of the business plan in the next presentation, and you will have all the drivers that will allow us to be a sustainable 20% ROE bank. So thank you very much.

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now all disconnect. Have a nice day.