Imerys Sa Ord

Good morning. This is the conference operator. Welcome and thank you for joining the eMERIS 2025 Annual Results Conference Call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Should anyone need assistance during the conference call, they may signal an operator by pressing star and zero on their telephone. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Alessandro Dazza, Chief Executive Officer, and Pierre Nepareil, Chief Financial Officer of Imerys. Please go ahead.

Good morning to all of you. Thank you for joining us today to review Imerys Q4 and full year 2025 results. I think the first word is dedicated to Pierre Lebreu, our CFO next to me, our new CFO. Pierre is not new to Imerys. He has been with us for more than 20 years, new in his role. I'm very proud of this promotion because Pierre will bring strong leadership to the team, experience, and will guarantee continuity in this business. Pierre, welcome. And as usual, let me start by giving you some highlights of the year we just closed. 2025 revenue amounted to 3.385 billion euro, broadly in line with last year. Q4 at 800 million, also broadly in line with last year, both on a like-for-like basis, reflecting, I would say, solid pricing in a market with subdued industrial activity and construction demand in North America and Europe still lacking. Full year 2025 adjusted EBITDA landed at €546 million within our guidance, despite currency headwinds, impacting EBITDA for the full year for €22 million. And this was particularly evident in Q4, given the devaluation of the U.S. dollar. Year-on-year performance, EBITDA-wise, was also broadly in line with last year at minus 0.4% at constant exchange rates and excluding, of course, perimeter and joint venture effects. So, all in all, very resilient for our core business, supported by disciplined pricing and ongoing continuous cost management. Q425, also very similar to the rest of the year. The group generated free operating cash flow for the year of 127 million euro before strategic capex and expenses and around 80 million as reported. Strategic capex in 2025 were relating only to our lithium projects and I will return on the topic a bit later. Image structure remains sound, investment grade confirmed. Current income was 146 million euro and the board of directors will propose an ordinary cash dividend of 75 cents per share at the shareholders meeting on May 12th of this year. The payout ratio is consistent with all last previous years. Last important topic, the group did a non-cash goodwill impairment of the solution for refractory abrasive and construction business for an amount of 467 million euro. will return on this this impairment has no impact on the group cash position or financing capacity it purely reflects an accounting adjustment necessitated by changed mark market conditions and assumptions do not call into question the soundness of this business and i will further elaborate on this here we see a little bit our sales performance by geography for the full year and q4 europe main markets posted a light recovery in Q4, which gives us good hope for 2026, improving construction and improving industrial activity. Positive sign for the future. For the full year, however, as we see here, the business is still behind 2024, fundamentally due to low construction, industrial and automotive activity, partly only compensated by good and solid performance in consumer markets. North America, we had a very different shaded picture throughout the year, solid first parts and a weaker Q3 and Q4, the trend that we have seen already in the last six months, fundamentally impacted by weak industrial construction. Should be noted that a further impact on this activity is the devaluation of the U.S. dollar, which is affecting sales in euro, as we report, at the level of 5% compared to last year, so very significant. Asia, sales continue to grow nicely, not only in India, but also in China, which remains quite dynamic, especially around new technology, electric vehicles, and I would say strong exports. South America, after a strong first half, slowed down a bit in the second part of the year, partly in relation to U.S. tariffs on Brazilian products. Let's now look rapidly at our main underlying markets and their trends, which, of course, partly reflect already what I just described. But overall, I would say Q4 in line with Q3 in terms of trends, maybe with some signs of recovery in Europe and continuous strong growth of electric vehicles and energy storage. Construction was not a great year, especially in the U.S., In Europe, where we see, however, a reverse of this negative trend, so positive signs for the future, consumers remain very resilient in all geographies. Automotive, poor in Europe, a bit more stable in the U.S., and a very strong China, very strong EVs as well. And industrial activity normally follows the other markets, so I would say in line with the average of the others. Imerys does not only rely on underlying markets. We proactively target growth. And in order to give you an idea of some solid avenues of future growth, you see on this slide some of the recent business developments of the group. We start, of course, with our conductive additives business. It's continuing to grow thanks to capacity expansion. You remember in the last three years in Belgium as well as in Switzerland. Same for our investments in China in automotive, lightweighting on polymers in India for refractories and construction. And last example, which we have not discussed. publicized a lot, but also because it is still ongoing, a capacity increase for our high-purity diatomite filter aid called CellPure, which is used widely in the pharma business with strong growth, which we will accompany with new CapEx. Together, they are contributing more than 30 million revenue in 2025 with further growth ahead as we ramp up sales. Similarly, on innovation, launching new products takes time. That's why it's important to have a pipeline, but it is the basis for future growth. I will not enter into the many details. Here are only a few examples. There is a lot more. Some are already generating commercial sales. Some are under qualification and will be the engine of future growth. The fact that specialty minerals have unique and varied properties, this creates new ideas, new applications every year on a continuous basis. And we know, as you know, Imerys has the widest portfolio of specialty minerals in the world. If you look at the development of EBITDA in this slide, you see the robustness of our business model. On the left side, you can see the evolution of the full year adjusted EBITDA year on year. We do have a significant impact of perimeter coming from the divestiture, as you remember, of our assets serving the paper market in July 24th. joint ventures, which did an exceptional year in 24, especially the first part of 24, and exchange rates, a fix. If you remove these, let's say, external factors, what is most important, the core activity of Imerys delivered a very resilient EBITDA, basically in line with last year, despite what we all know was a challenging context in 2025. On the right side, you see the balance between price and costs, which highlights the good and continuous work done by the group, especially on cost reductions, first and foremost, but also on agility to react to market changes in terms of pricing when situations change. This remains and will continue to be a key factor for future success and profitability of this company. An important topic we mentioned today, and we go in more detail, we already announced in October with our Q3 results an improvement program. So here, finally, more details on it. We are launching a cost and performance improvement program named Project Horizon. which aims at restoring our targeted profitability, will consolidate the group's competitive edge, so our competitiveness, will drive efficiencies, and facilitate the agility needed in this ever-changing environment. It focuses on simplifying and streamlining the organization of the group structurally. Structurally is important because the savings are here to stay. Structurally lowering our cost base, adjusting our industrial footprint, and rationalizing our capacity worldwide when possible. The program is ongoing. It is subject, of course, to the completion of the required social and legal processes. On the financial side, on the right, Project Horizon targets annual cost savings of at least 50 to 60 million euros. run rate per year versus starting point 2025 cost base and we do expect to have benefits of at least 50% of the program already in 2026 with the rest on coming in 2027. We expect the cash cost of implementing such a program at approximately one year of saving which makes it particularly attractive. Let me now give you a short update on the two key topics for the group. Lithium, first. Announcements have preceded this call, so you are aware. On Emily, on February 11, we announced that the French state has acquired the minority stake in the project. It is a key milestone for the future of the project. It's an investment of €15 million in the equity of the company, which will support and finance the Emily project in finalizing the definitive feasibility study. until the end of 26 and probably in early 27. As far as our second project, Imerys British Lithium, is concerned, the scoping study, which is the step before a pre-feasibility study, was concluded and finalized in early 26, confirming at the end a high value and a strategic relevance of this project. However, the group has decided to place the project on maintenance and care, and consequently there will be no further investments in this project in the nearby future. With regards to the Chapter 11 process of the North American talk entities, another milestone, the confirmation hearing as planned started on February 2nd and was concluded on time on February 6th at the Court of Bankruptcy in Delaware. We anticipate the court to issue its ruling in the following weeks. The potential confirmation, if positive, will then need to be subject to an appeal, will need to be reviewed and affirmed by the U.S. Federal District Court. We remain confident in a positive outcome of this process. Moving to our sustainability performance, I'm pleased to share that we have successfully completed our 2325 Sustainability Roadmap you see here. some indicators. Of course, I will not read them all, but 14 out of 16 have been overachieved. This demonstrates how deeply we have integrated sustainability in the core industrial strategy of this group. And knowing that is a topic of particular interest, if we focus a bit more specifically on CO2 emissions and climate change, we can look at the next slide. Our Scope 1 and 2 emissions amounted in 2025 to 1.8 million tonnes of CO2 equivalent. This is a 28% reduction versus 2021, the starting point, which puts us well ahead of the pace required to reach 42% reduction by 2030. On Scope 3, we have already achieved 22% reduction against 2021 baseline, nearing our 2025 target for 2030. This performance is great and derives fundamentally from actions and investments in several areas, in particular energy efficiency, heat recovery, switching to low carbon energy. This achievement also confirms that we have met our sustainability performance target for our 2021 sustainability linked bond with a positive effect on the interest rate. We've done well in the past. We move on to the future. And we are launching our third roadmap to building on the experience of the last eight years and this continuous progress. We've taken the opportunity to strengthen and simplify our mid-term objectives and focus really on what stakeholders expect, while being, of course, fully aligned with the latest CSRD guidelines. I will not go through the list, but I assure you that our targets are both ambitious but also reachable. I now hand over to Pierre for a detailed analysis of our financial results.

Thank you, Alessandro. Good morning, everyone. It is a pleasure to be there with you today for the first time. So let me recap some of the key aspects of our financial performance, starting with revenue. Group sales were 3.4 billion euros for the full year 2025. This represents a 0.7% decrease at constant exchange rates and perimeter compared to last year, with volume slightly down and prices holding well. As a reminder, the perimeter effect includes a negative impact of €165 million from the disposal of our assets serving the paper market in July 24. It is partly offset by the 50 million euros of sales generated by the Chen Viron business acquired at the beginning of 2025. Currency had a negative effect of 82 million euros, mostly coming from a drop of the USD versus Euro from the second quarter onwards. You can see Imerys' performance for the fourth quarter at the bottom of the chart. Trends in sales volume and prices were similar to what we saw for the full year. The currency impact was, however, much more negative. It represented 4.2% of sales and was driven by impact of the weak USD. Let's now have a look more in detail at our three business segments. Beginning with performance minerals, this business generated 2 billion euros of revenue in 2025, representing 60% of Imerys group sales. Overall, the business remains very resilient given market circumstances, showing just a slightly negative organic growth compared to last year at minus 1.3%. Full-year 2025 revenue in the Americas was down by 1.3% at constant scope at exchange rates versus last year and stood at 841 million euros. Sales were impacted by a weak residential market in the US, suffering from high interest rates, unsold housing inventory and by a soft consumer market. Prices held well. Full-year 2025 revenue in the Europe, Middle East, Africa and Asia-Pacific region decreased by 1.7% at constant scope and exchange rates compared to last year. Volume were down by 2.8%, driven by muted construction and automotive markets. This decline was partly compensated by a good level of activity in the consumer market. In Q4, the performance was in line with previous quarters. Despite lower volume, performance minerals adjusted EBITDA is above last year by 4% like for like, a strong achievement driven by price discipline and cost management. The EBITDA margin was resilient at 17.8%. It is worth noting that performance on the Canviron, the diatomite and perlite business acquired in January 25, was ahead of expectation thanks to quick synergies implementation. Let's now look at our solution for refractory, abrasive and construction business. Full year sales to the refractory market were impacted by the low industrial activity in Europe and in Asia, while the US market resisted better. Pricing remains steady. It is worth flagging that organic growth was positive both in third and fourth quarter of 2025, driven by commercial actions and strong sales of advanced ceramic products. Full year 2025 adjusted EBITDA declined by 9.8% at constant scope and exchange rates due to lower volumes, which were partly offset by a positive price-cost balance and cost-savings initiatives. Let's now have a look at solutions for energy transition to complete this segment review. Starting with graphite and carbon, full year 2025 revenue increased by 11% like for like, driven by solid and market, primarily electric vehicles, along with new product launches and robust conductive polymers business. Fourth quarter revenue was stable as some external and temporary factors delayed sales by a few million euros. Full year 2025 adjusted EBITDA increased by 41.2% over the previous year. This substantial improvement is primarily attributable to significant volume increase. Adjusted EBITDA margin reached 25%, again of 5.5 percentage points. Let's now focus on TQC results. As a reminder, TQC is our 50% joint venture in high purity quartz business. Full year 2025 revenue amounted to 167 million euros, a significant drop from a record-breaking previous year. Performance was affected by disrupted solar value chain, even if inventories are now at healthier levels. Revenue improved in H225 at 85 million euros, outperforming both H1 2025 and H224. Full year 2025 net income dropped to 35 million. TQC delivered for the full year a solid 36% EBITDA margin. Now let's look at the group's profitability. For the full year, adjusted EBITDA reached €546 million, corresponding to a 16.1% margin. Looking at Imerys' direct operational performance, highlighted in the box in grey color, you can see that EBITDA was very resilient, with just a slight decrease of 0.7%, a great achievement given the economic context and supported by price discipline and cost management. On a reported basis, EBITDA decreased 19% in comparison to 2024. This reflects the lower contribution of joint ventures by 74 million euros, perimeter changes for 30 million euros and an unfavorable exchange rate effect of 22 million euros. The picture is similar for the fourth quarter, where adjusted EBITDA matched prior year levels, once adjusted for currency fluctuation, changes in perimeter and joint venture performance. Let's now move to the bottom of the P&L. Net income, group share, is a negative 409 million euros. As detailed on this slide, it is impacted by other operating income and expenses amounting to 555 million euros. These 555 million euros are mostly related to two items. The first one is a non-cash goodwill impairment charge of 467 million euros related to the solutions for refractory, abrasive and construction business. This impairment reflects a lower performance of the business plan than anticipated one year ago, and the fact that anti-dumping measures on fused minerals imported from China, finally implemented by the European Union, are less protective than initially anticipated. It is important to flag that markets have eventually stabilized and we do expect a progressive recovery of this business from 2026 onwards, as already noted in Q3 and Q4-25, when RAC posted positive organic growth. Savings expected from the project horizon should further support recovery. The second items are non-cash write-offs related to Project Horizon for 41 million euros and to the decision to place Imerys British Lithium on maintenance and care for 31 million euros. Let's now have a look at the cash flow generation. Current free operating cash flow amounted to 78 million in 2025 or 127 million before strategic capex. In comparison with 2024 year, free cash flow generation is primarily impacted by a decrease in dividends received from joint ventures with no dividend received from TQC in comparison with approximately 70 million euros received in 2024. You will note as well the €26 million increase in working capital, primarily driven by higher inventory in the RAC business area, where we had anticipated a stronger impact on sales of anti-dumping measures in Europe, which finally did not materialise. Inventory and more generally working capital will definitely be an area of continued focus in 2026. Lastly, paid capital expenditures amounted 317 million euros. New CAPEX booked in 2025 amounted to 297 million, including 47 million euros related to our strategic investment in the lithium projects. The remaining 250 million euros recurring capex were well below historical level of more than 300 million and below our estimate provided in H1 2025. We do expect that capital expenditures in 2026 will continue to be limited and in the 200 to 270 million euros range. This should allow us to achieve a robust cash generation in 2026. To conclude this financial review, let's now look at net debt. It slightly increased in 2025 as a result of strategic capex spend and dividend paid. I will highlight a couple of additional points. First, net financial debt went down in H2 2025, confirming the positive trajectory of our net cash generation. Second, we do not expect any significant strategic capex in 2026, as the financing of the definitive feasibility study for the Emilie Lithium project will benefit from the contribution of our partner in the project. I would also like to remind you that we successfully placed a €600 million senior unsecured note last November. The average maturity of our bonds is consequently extended to 4.3 years from 3.4 years at June 2025. Lastly, Imerys investment grade was confirmed both by S&P and Moody's in second semester 2025. Net debt represents 2.5 times the adjusted EBITDA, reflecting the solid financial structure of the group. On this positive note, I will now hand back to Alessandro for the outlook.

Thank you, Pierre. So let me summarize this presentation by saying 2025 was a challenging year, but I think the group, especially in its core activity, did quite well. managed to keep sales flat our overall EBITDA flat excluding external factors fx perimeter or jvs performance minerals increased its profitability graphite and carbon was exceptional and rack which was negative compared to last year posted growth in the second part of the year which makes me quite optimistic for the future How do we see 26 going forward? Don't expect a guidance, as in the past we will not do this. We release it typically after having seen the outcome of H1. Personally, I'm optimistic, but I've learned to be prudent. as markets have been slow in recovery. Yes, we expect good construction in Europe, but we are still uncertain on the speed of recovery in the U.S., and automotive, which is a big market for the group, remains difficult to interpret. For sure, electric vehicles will continue to grow strongly in Europe as well as in China. So with this prudence, which is, I think, needed so early in the year, What I know is that the group will deliver what is in its hands, and I'm talking about our restructuring program, Project Horizon. It's ramping up capacities that we have built, so they are available. The markets are there. We don't need to invest further. We need to ramp it up, as we showed in 2025, and we'll continue, and we'll continue with our innovation efforts because we need to build the future. So thank you very much, and I would like now to open to Q&A.

Thank you. This is the conference operator. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. To remove yourself from the question queue, please press star and two. Please pick up the receiver when asking questions. Anyone who has a question may press star and one at this time. First question is from Sven Edelfelt Oddo.

Yes, good morning. Thank you for taking my question. Welcome to Pierre. So I will have a couple of questions. Alessandro, I quite understand the usual view of not giving any guidance, but this year is a bit more complicated to understand because there is a cost cutting, construction of somehow improving in Europe. You mentioned that you managed to the core business, you managed to make it stable this year. So if you add up the number of EBITDA for 25 plus the cost cutting, it's probably a minimum. Hello?

Yes, we hear you well, Sven.

Okay, sorry, I've got another call. And secondly, on asbestos, it seems that it's going extremely well since the last hearing. I see a lot of certificate of no objection being published. So there is an earring on the 24. Can we consider a positive outcome as early as next week? And the last question is on CAPEX. I think you mentioned 250 million. Is it a maximum, and can we expect CAPEX to be a little bit below this level? Thank you very much.

Thank you, Sven. Many questions. I'll try to address them all. As I said, we don't give a guidance. Therefore, I will not comment what 26 looks like. Yes, we will do the cost-cutting program because it's in our hands. I trust that construction will rebound, especially in Europe, but it's not in my hands. That's the market. And we know we have seen construction in the U.S. rather slowing down in the second part of 2025. So we do need construction in the U.S. also to be solid before we can say, yes, it's going to be a good year. And that's why my prudence, which is really, we are exposed to markets. If you remember a year ago in this room, I said 25 will be a good year, volumes will go up, and then we had tariffs, and then we had interest rates that did not drop fast enough, and we ended up with slightly negative volumes. So for me, prudence is the minimum that is required in this very challenging and rapidly challenging world. But we will deliver what is in our hands. And you mentioned CAPEX. You've seen the agility of the group. Typically, we invest 300 plus million euro. We saw that these year volumes are, sorry, in 25, we saw volumes are not coming. So we could reduce rapidly our CAPEX. And we ended up for, let's say, running rate for the core business with 250. What will be 26, we will adjust. We will adjust as volumes grow. But I expect in a normal year to be maybe 260. Don't forget there are CO2 rights that now need to be booked as capex. So I think in the region, 250, 270 could be a realistic number. And we will really adjust it based on what we need. We have good invested assets. I think it is the new normal to go down to these levels. The 300 plus is the past. And I remind you that, as Pierre mentioned, in 26, we will not have strategic APEX, because our strategic APEX was the lithium projects. We have paused the UK. We have found a partner that contributed capital in France. So for 26, there will be no further expenditures. And I can continue to comment on other cash items, but we'll do it later. Lastly, chapter 11, we have always been confident. I think it was important to start this confirmation hearing and to conclude it, so it went on time. No surprises. We can remain confident, we shall remain confident, but now it's in the hands of the judge to issue the ruling. It's the final hearing, the confirmation hearing, so it will be a very comprehensive ruling, so I expect several... Tens of pages, maybe hundreds of pages, so it's something that will take time, I'm convinced, because of the complexity of the case and the requirement of the law. Frankly, this 24, date 24 that you have mentioned is not known to me. We have no outstanding deadline. It's really waiting for the issue of the ruling.

remain confident but we can only wait for the ruling and i think i addressed all your questions ben thank you thank you next question is from august derrick's catch hi uh good morning to all thanks for the the presentation i have two questions the first one is on the lithium project in in the uk The decision to end this project contrasts with the positive momentum on prices. What should we conclude from this? Is this project failing to achieve the targeted cash cost or is it linked to the French stake in the Emily project? So basically, what are the reasons for this decision? And the second question is on the cost-cutting plan. A large part of it is for 2026, but there is also costs associated with this plan. So should we expect a net impact close to zero for 2026? Thanks.

Thank you, August, for the questions. The lithium projects in the UK, so British lithium, is a good project. We have finished the scoping, so we know roughly the potential of the deposit, the cost of the CAPEX and the cash cost of production tomorrow. It's a good project. Of course, scoping means you have less certainty on these numbers than you have when you do a pre-feasibility study, which is complete in France, or a definitive feasibility study, which is exactly what we are doing in France. So the project is good, and it's not ended. It's paused. Maintenance care means you have something, it's of great value, But at the moment, you decide not to pursue. So we pause it. So we could restart it. It will depend on several things. One of them is, do we find investors that join us? I always said we need investors to join us. These projects are too big in size for Emery Ceylon. So we need investors to join us. And secondly... The project in France is way more advanced. We are at least a year, year and a half more advanced in terms of studying engineering pilot plant. So we prefer to go full steam on this one today and focus all our resources on this one and accelerating rather than running two in parallel, which would have been complicated. So this is the analysis. Lithium prices increase. You're absolutely right, jumped. In December, November, when we spoke last time, they were around $10. They are today around $20 per kilo. So they doubled. I remind you, as we always said, we believe the mid-long-term price of lithium should be between $20 and $25. That's what all expert studies show. At that price... a millilithium project is more than a billion MPV. So we are talking about a fantastic project. Yes, this level of price will raise new interest of investors. So we do expect to receive, and we are in discussion to, sorry, to further consider partnering. First of all, as I said, for France, and we will see in the future for the UK. On the cost cutting, I think your analysis is roughly okay. Costs will go, cost of implementation, cash cost of implementation will go with savings. Typically, you will have social plans, redundancy. So the moment you exit people, you will incur the cost, but you will have the savings. So I would say if we manage to achieve at least half of the savings in 26 and a full scale in 27, we will probably have savings. bigger part of costs in the first year and a bit less in the second year, since the overall cost, which I think at one year of savings max is very competitive, I would say, because I think we will manage well this cost pending. I think cash-wise, yes, you might be more or less at zero in year 26. I think it's a fair assumption, whereas we will have the full benefit then recurring from 27 without costs.

Thanks a lot.

Next question is from Sebastian Bray, Birnberg.

Hello, good morning and thank you for taking my question. I had two, please. One is on the level of interest charge. Is the full year 25 level now recorded a good proxy for what to expect in future years? I appreciate that there was a step up in the cost of interest because of the successful bond refinancing, but I suspect there might be one or two one-offs in the 25 interest charges. Are we now at a stable good level as we look forward? My second question is on the quartz company. It looks like things are getting better. Can you talk a little about the pricing and volume trends as we've moved into the half year of 25 and into 26? Is this business returning to positive pricing territory or is the improvement simply the result of better volumes? Thank you.

Thank you, Sébastien. I'll let Pierre comment on the expectation of 26 financial charges compared to 25.

Hello, Sébastien. So as you rightly pointed out, as you know, we refinanced in last November 600 million bonds. Basically, the coupon for the new bond is 4%, whereas the coupon for the bond we refinanced was around 1.5%. So it's easy to do the math, as you can see, just mechanically. You can expect in 2026 a finance charge increasing by roughly 15 million euros, all other things being the same.

And on the quartz company, your comment is correct. The business is stabilizing and returning to a more regular path of progressive, slow progressive recovery growth. Inventories are stabilizing the value chain. Of course, the competitive pressure is there when volumes are lower, so there is more competition that has caused a reduction in pricing in the market. We don't comment specifically on volumes nor on future prices because it's a very small market, and therefore we should be extremely careful. But I would say overall, a positive, gradual positive trend to be noticed going forward.

To clarify on the finance costs, there are no one-off items or anything else in the interest charges for 25 that would mean that the actual level is different to what was reported?

That's correct. Nothing worth mentioning here.

Thank you for taking my questions.

Next question is from Ibrahim Omani, CAC.

Hello, Alessandro. Hello, Pierre. Congrats for your new position. I have two questions, if I may. The first one is on the Q1. The comparison basis will be a bit more challenging. Do you expect a continuing improvement of the organic growth sequentially in the Q1 2026? And my second question is on the improvement. Could you give us more details behind this impairment? And on the 1.3 billion euro of goodwill in the balance sheet, are there still elements at risk? Thank you.

Abraham, sequential for me is Q1 on Q4. Typically, Q1 is stronger than Q4. So sequentially, yes, there will be an improvement. If you compare to last year, Too early to say because we only saw January. As I said, markets are not rebounding rapidly, as I state in my outlook. So difficult today to guess. What is for sure still there in Q1 is an FX impact. So the dollar was in Q1 last year, 1.04. So a very strong dollar a year ago. Then from Q2 onwards, similar to where we are today. So we will still have... an FX impact in Q1 of 2026 compared to last year, and then it will basically fade away because we will be closer to current levels with last year levels. Other than that, too early to say, I said some markets show recovery, construction Europe, paint, others are still in the middle, automotive. For sure, we will see growth in EVs and batteries, materials in general. US, for me, remains still a question mark, so to be seen. On the impairments, it's very simple. The business rack carries a goodwill, which derives from old acquisition. The assessment of today's market conditions, and we can discuss, basically is an acknowledgement that there is a new normal, especially in Europe, after the energy crisis and increased competition from Asia. The value in the books, the goodwill did not represent the real value, so we took this accounting entry. It said there's no cash, there's no impact on the company itself, it's a correction. It's an exercise you do every year at the end of the year, which automatically means for all other businesses we see no need for this, otherwise we would have done it. and i think what is important to note is that the business which suffered in 24 and in 25 as you have seen if you look back at our communication previous communication finally stabilized anybody starting to recover we had organic growth in q3 and in q4 the anti-dumping measures are in place. They were temporary before. They are in place. Yes, they are less than we expected because there are free quotas for some volumes, but they will bring some relief to this industry in Europe in the future. So I think this business remains solid and should probably post some positive news going forward. I think we addressed

Let me add, as well, the RAC business area, in addition, as our other business area, will benefit from the Horizon Plan, which you need as well to factor in your analysis.

Absolutely. The competitiveness of the group will be improved thanks to our cost and performance improvement program, so that will give us an extra competitive lever going forward.

Next question is a follow-up from Sven Ederfeld, Oddo.

Yes, it's me again. Sorry to come back. I want to better understand this question from Ibrahim on the goodwill. So this 467 is coming from Kerneos, but I don't think actually Kerneos' profit is lower than 10 years ago. I know you bought it in 2017, but... I'm not sure Kerneos' profit is lower than 10 years ago because of the current AUETS on the clinker price surge across Europe. So is it because the Kerneos goodwill has been spread across the RAC business unit, or is it because Kerneos' exposure to China? Just to clarify. And then I would have a follow-up on the lithium project. I'm a bit surprised by the valuation of a project, 150 or 160, if you take into account how much the French state has invested. So is there a commitment from the state to fund more of a project in the coming year? Can you perhaps elaborate on this optionality? Thank you.

I let Pierre comment on the concept of goodwill on a business.

Indeed, as you rightly pointed out, goodwill are tested only at business area level. So at RAC level, so the fact that we are now booking an impairment for RAC, you are correct when stating that this goodwill originated from Carneo's acquisition in 2017. But still, we are testing globally the goodwill for RAC, and it does not mean whatsoever that this goodwill impairment is related to a weak Carnot's business. As you understood and as previously mentioned, we are far more suffering from Chinese competition in our fused minerals business than in our cement business.

Correct. Thank you, Pierre. And let's say the acknowledgement of this change in market condition is really after the spike in energy in Europe, which did not happen in Asia. So the market has changed in competitive terms between Europe and Asia. And that's mostly the high energy intensity products like fused minerals. On Emily, we did not disclose any value, and so I do not comment on the value. And I can confirm that there is no commitment in any form of any of the partners to continue, just a will to work together to develop this project, and we will take decisions when they come. Maybe, Sven, what you correctly noticed is I believe the state today enters or entered at a time where lithium prices were very low, And therefore probably did a good deal joining the project in early stages. Today, I think our project has a higher value. So we will try to find new partners because we want to rapidly ramp it up and do it. So we will need new partners, as we always said. But I am convinced that the cost of joining the project will change given the circumstances. much better expectations that the market has developed. And you see also in the value of companies producing and selling lithium that have really increased significantly over the last few months. But we will, with our partner, go step by step as we have decided.

Okay. But can you confirm that the 1.50 price roughly is based on a lithium price of 20, not 10?

No, no, because I don't confirm neither the value nor... Betting on future prices is complicated, so everybody can do his own guess. So there is a... But a deal closed now started, for sure, several months ago. And before, the starting point was a lower lithium price, for sure. That's why I'm saying going forward, from now on, I believe the Emily project has a much higher value because people believe in 20 today. When you are at 10, it's difficult to – I always believed in $20 per kilo because I think that's the price that the world needs to allow projects to start, to be profitable. Not too expensive. It cannot be $50, $100, or $80 as it was, because then cars' batteries will become too expensive. But you need a minimum price to allow projects to exist, to be profitable, and for investors to invest. And for me, it's anything between $20 and $30. So that's where we are now. It's good for the future. And based on this, we will value the projects going forward.

Thank you, Alessandro. Thank you, Pierre.

For any further questions, please press star and one on your telephone. Gentlemen, we have no more questions registered at this time.

Thank you. I see on the screen we have a question on cash generation for 26. I'll answer it quickly. I would like to compare rather to 25. I believe 25, we had an alignment of events that were fundamentally negative or impacted negative lava cache generation. We spent more than 50 million on the lithium projects, on strategic cap, what we call strategic cap. It will not recur in 26, as we just said. One project is paused. The other one is financed to move forward. We had an increase in working capital, 26 million, as Pierre showed in one of the previous slides, mostly because we expected a strong sales development in RAC when the duties were introduced, the anti-dumping duties. It didn't come. So we will reduce this inventory. So first, there will be no growth of inventories. On the contrary, this effect should even reverse because we will adjust to the new market. And therefore, it will help significantly 26 cash generations. We did not receive dividends from our main joint venture. remind you that tqc invested in capacity expansion in 24 and 25 in the u.s first and in norway afterwards as said therefore we decided with our partner in 2025 to pause dividends but the capacity is concluded capacity expansion is concluded ahead of us we have a business that will continue to deliver solid net income solid EBITDA above 30 percent as we have seen in 26 in 25 sorry so there will be solid cash generation and therefore uh pending of course agreement with our joint venture partners but i do believe there will be room to restart paying dividends from this fantastic business we will pay a lower dividend in 26 compared to 25 which again will generate catch generation for the group. And as you have seen and somebody of you asked, running CAPEX day-to-day are under control, and I do not expect a significant increase increase next year. Therefore, in terms of paid, we will see this level coming down to a more what we book you pay, whereas we are still coming from higher booking and therefore higher paying than booking. So in general, I think we will see a significant positive improvement in 2026. And I hope I have addressed the question. If there are no further questions, we will close. Let's allow our Room to confirm, please.

We have no further questions registered at this time.

Thank you very much. Then thank you again for dedicating this hour to Emeris. And we wish you all a good day. Thank you. Have a good day.