Keppel Corp Ltd Ord

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Conference for Capital Limited's second half and full year financial results for 2023. We have on the panel this morning, from your left, Mr Manjot Singh Mann, CEO M1, Mr Louis Lim, CEO Real Estate, Ms Christina Tan, CEO Fund Management and Chief Investment Officer, Mr Lo Chin Hwa, CEO, Mr. Kevin Cheung, CFO, and Ms. Cindy Lim, CEO, Infrastructure. Mr. Thomas Pang, CEO, Data Centres and Networks, is not feeling well and will not be attending the session today. We will begin the session with presentations by CEO, Mr. Lo Chin Hwa, and CFO, Mr. Kevin Cheung, followed by the question and answer session. Mr. Lo, please.

Thank you. Good morning, everyone. 2023 has been one of the most transformational years in Keppel's history. Amidst the volatile global environment, we took pivotal steps to transform Keppel, starting with the successful divestment of the offshore and marine business, which allows us to realise some $9.4 billion in value over time. We then unveiled the next phase of our Vision 2030 transformation, shedding our conglomerate structure to become a global asset manager and operator. This was followed by the proposed strategic acquisition of Amon Capital, which we announced in November, to propel our growth as an asset manager at a global scale. Reflecting Keppel's new direction, we changed our name with effect from 1st January 2024 from Keppel Corporation Limited to Keppel Ltd, marking a new chapter in our corporate journey. Today, we are operating more efficiently as one horizontally integrated company, harnessing synergies across our three segments. We have made good progress in the goals we set. By 3rd Q23, we had already exceeded the upper bound of our three-year asset monetisation target of $3 billion to $5 billion. Since October 2020, we have announced the monetisation of about $5.4 billion of assets and released some $4.1 billion in cash over this period to reinvest for growth and reward shareholders. Our transformation efforts have been recognised by the market and our investors. Against a challenging landscape, we achieved Total Shareholder Returns of 49.3% for 2022 and 61.1% for 2023, far exceeding the TSR of the Straits Time Index in both years. But we are not done yet. We will continue to scale up our funds under management grow recurring income and monetise our assets as we execute our Vision 2030 strategy. For the whole of 2023, we achieved a net profit of close to $4.1 billion, more than quadrupled that of FY22. This is the highest profit ever recorded by Keppel in our 55-year history. About $3.3 billion of this was from gains achieved from successfully divesting the O&M business. Our return on equity was 37.9% for FY23 compared to 8.1% a year ago. Net profit from continuing operations was $996 million in FY23, 19% higher than the $839 million in FY22. All segments were profitable, with sharply improved performance in our infrastructure segment. Including the accounting loss of $111 million from the distribution of capital REIT units to our shareholders in November 2023, net profit from continuing operations was $885 million in FY23, or 6% higher year-on-year. For Second Half 2023, we delivered a robust net profit of $551 million, up 36% from $405 million in Second Half 2022, excluding the discontinued offshore and marine operations from both periods and DIS loss. Including the DIS loss, net profit for the second half of last year was $440 million, a 9% increase year-on-year. As you can see, the composition of our profits is very different from what it was a few years ago, when the majority of our earnings were from the lumpy O&M order book business and the property trading business. Keppel today is no longer a rig builder nor a property developer. We are a global asset manager and operator with complementary segments in infrastructure, real estate and connectivity, all contributing positively to the company's earnings. While earnings from real estate were lower year-on-year, the segment continued to perform creditably. and contributed significantly to our net profit, despite challenging conditions in markets like China. On the back of Capital's strong performance and reflecting our confidence in the company's growth trajectory, the Board of Directors has proposed a final cash dividend of $0.19 per share for FY23, which will be paid to shareholders on 8 May 2024. The final cash dividend is higher than last year's final dividend of $0.18 per share. Together with the interim cash dividend of $0.15 per share paid in August 2023, shareholders would be receiving a total cash dividend of $0.34 per share for the financial year 2023. This translates to a cash dividend yield of 4.7% based on Capital's closing share price of $7.16 last evening. including the distribution in species of SAMCorp marine shares and capital REIT units, our shareholders will be receiving total dividends amounting to about $2.70 per capital share for the whole year 2023. As we press ahead with our growth plans, we continue to be prudent and nimble in capital management, keeping our cost of funds competitive and de-risking our portfolio amidst a volatile landscape. As at the end of 2023, our adjusted net debt to EBITDA remained at a healthy 4.6 times. About 66% of our borrowings were on fixed rates with interest costs of 3.75% and weighted tenure of about 3 years. We have managed our hedging well, with our cost of funds not rising significantly over the past few years, despite the high interest rate environment. In the three years from end 2020 to end 2023, our cost of funds increased by a moderate 150 bps compared to the three-year swap rate, which rose significantly by about 240 bps over the same period. as at the end of 2023, we maintain our cost of funds at a relatively small spread of about 110 bps over the three-year swap rate of 2.64%, cushioned by interest rate hedges. Last week, we also secured $1 billion worth of sustainability-linked revolving credit facilities, which we can use for general corporate purposes, as well as the pursuit of business opportunities in the sustainability space. We have also made good progress de-risking our investments. Assetco has done well amidst growing demand for offshore drilling assets and improving utilisation and day rates. Assetco has accumulated a cash balance of approximately $950 million as at the end of 2023 and is receiving active inquiries for its assets. Meanwhile, we remain watchful over our exposure in China. Our Real Estate Division has monetised over $3 billion of assets in China since 2017, including $94 million last year, and recognised total profits of more than $1 billion. It has also repatriated more than $5 billion of cash over the same period. some of the unlocked capital has been reallocated to pursue opportunities in different asset classes and countries, leveraging our asset-light model. Going forward, we will focus on accelerating the monetisation of the vendor notes as well as our residential land bank and inventories, which currently amount to some $6.3 billion on our balance sheet. Some of the proceeds from monetisation will be invested in new growth areas. We will also become more asset-light and require less capital, some of which can be returned to shareholders. As we continue to improve capital's performance, this will bring us closer to our 15% ROE target, which we are confident of achieving well before 2030. Reflecting capital strategy and our shift away from lumpy EPC and development profits, our recurring income from continuing operations rose 54% year-on-year to $773 million in FY23, making up 88% of our net profit compared to 60% a year earlier. The strong improvement was boasted by higher operating income from our Infrastructure Division, which continues to pursue opportunities in renewables, clean energies and decarbonisation solutions, whilst expanding our pipeline of long-term contracts that provide stable income with good earnings visibility. One such example was the recent Global Foundries Power Purchase Agreement, which will see Keppel providing electricity to provide their Singapore operations for more than 15 years. As at the end of 2023, about 60% of our generation capacity was contracted for three years and above. In 2023, our private funds and listed trusts generated a total of $283 million in asset management fees, up by about 6% year-on-year. We raised a total of about $2.3 billion in equity and completed $2.5 billion worth of acquisitions and $500 million in divestments in the same period. Notwithstanding the challenging fundraising environment, we continue to make good progress on our fund initiatives, achieving closings of US$575 million for the Capital Core Infrastructure Fund and RM1.6 billion for our China-focused Sustainable Urban Renewal Programme. We also acquired the remaining 50% stake in Keppel Credit Fund Management, formerly Peerfront Capital, bringing our interest in the platform to 100%. Our FUM grew to $55 billion as at the end of 2023, compared to $50 billion at the end of 2022. When Phase 1 of the acquisition of Amon Capital is completed later this year, Our FUM would grow to about $79 billion, bringing us close to 80% of our interim target of $100 billion by 2026. We remain laser-focused on achieving our FUM target of $200 billion by the end of 2030. Infrastructure is expected to be one of the fastest-growing asset classes in the years ahead. supported by global trends such as the energy transition and push for decarbonisation, as well as rising demand for digital connectivity. We have seen recent M&A transactions involving major global asset managers as they sought to expand in the infrastructure space. Keppel is in an enviable position as we are already an established infrastructure asset manager and operator with strong track record. We also have deep domain knowledge and operating capabilities in multiple asset classes, allowing us to provide more fun products and better value propositions to our LPs. In 2024, we will continue to expand our fund offerings as well as pursue a deal flow pipeline of over $14 billion, the majority of which are in the infrastructure and connectivity spaces. Looking ahead, as inflation eases and interest rates start to stabilise, we expect fundraising and deal-making activities to increase later this year. Nevertheless, investors are expected to remain highly selective of investment strategies and asset classes, with a preference for sectors underpinned by resilient macro trends, such as the energy transition, climate action and digitalisation, all of which are driving demand for Keppel's solutions. These include the Keppel-Sakra Cogem plant, Singapore's most advanced and first hydrogen-ready power plant, our sustainable urban renewal initiatives, as well as green data centre solutions and the Bifrost subsea cable system that we are developing. As we expand our business, we are looking out not just for good assets, but also top talent and strong capabilities that can add value to the company. The proposed acquisition of Ammon, which is progressing well, will give Keppel an immediate and strong foothold in Europe, significantly expanding our presence beyond Asia Pacific, and also bolster our attractiveness to global LPs. Keppel will also be able to widen our network of blue-chip LPs, leveraging Ammon's long-standing relationships with its global clients. The senior team at Amon, with their extensive asset management track record and networks in Europe, is a strong team that would add significant value to Capo. Amon will be Capo's European real estate platform, and both teams will work closely together to seize opportunities. With value-add from Keppel, we believe that Ammon's FUM can grow by 2.5 times to approximately $60 billion in 2030, through the co-creation of European credit funds, data centre funds and various private investment vehicles, and potentially REITs. To conclude, We have harnessed Keppel's deep industrial roots to transform the company into a global asset manager and operator. Our strong investment track record, built up over 20 years, as well as our operating capabilities and domain knowledge in the key segments of infrastructure, real estate and connectivity, provide an unparalleled value proposition to the investors in our private funds, REITs and trusts. Investors also find our active value-adding approach to creating superior returns appealing. Capital shareholders have benefited and will continue to benefit from this transformation. We have made significant progress over the years to adapt to the changing environment. Keppel today is run more efficiently as one company compared to what it used to be as a conglomerate with a few diverse listed operating companies. With Vision 2030, we are executing one business strategy and exploiting synergies amongst our three segments to create greater value for our end customers, our shareholders and our investors. Capital's earnings are now much more recurring and should attract growth multiples, rather than being valued based on price to book and discount to RNAV with a further conglomerate discount. I am confident that capital is well positioned to ride the next S-curve of quality, sustainable growth. Our resilience, with a focus on providing investment solutions and meeting basic needs like clean power, green environment and connectivity, helps us navigate a more complex world. Our new CFO, Kevin Cheung, will now take you through details of the company's financial performance.

Thank you, CEO, and a very good morning to all. I shall now take you through Capo's financial performance. For financial year 2023, Keppel achieved a record net profit of $4.07 billion, significantly higher than the prior year due to the recognition of disposal gain of approximately $3.3 billion from the successful divestment of Keppel Offshore & Marine, known as COMP. Excluding discontinued operations and the loss from distribution in specie of capital REIT units, DIS loss, net profit increased by 19% to $996 million from $839 million in FY2022. All segments were profitable, with stronger year-on-year performance from infrastructure and connectivity. ROE was significantly higher at 37.9%. Excluding the DIS loss, ROE from continuing operations improved to 9.3% as compared to 7.3% in FY2022, supported by higher net profit and lower equity as a result of the distributions in specie of CETRM shares and capital REIT units. Infrastructure was a top performer for FY2023, delivering net profits of almost $700 million. Contribution from the real estate segment remained resilient, with $426 million in net earnings, despite challenging market conditions in China. Net profit from connectivity grew year on year, and accounted for approximately 14% of the net profit from continuing operations. I will further elaborate on the performance of each segment later on. Net gearing increased from 0.78 times as at the end of 2022 to 0.9 times. This was due to higher net debt as a result of net cash outflow from the divestment of COM and lower equity arising from the two distributions in specie and cash dividends paid during the year. Adjusted net debt to EBITDA improved to 4.6 times from 5.1 times as at the end of 2022, mainly due to higher proportionate increase in EBITDA as compared to increase in adjusted net debt. Free cash outflow was $384 million as compared to free cash outflow of $408 million in the same period last year. This was mainly due to lower level of investments and capital expenditure, higher divestment proceeds and dividend income, as well as advances from associated companies and joint ventures, partly offset by increase in working capital requirements. In addition, As Qom had a net cash balance of $968 million, the completion of the divestment resulted in a net cash outflow, partially offset by the receipt of $500 million in cash consideration. Excluding the results of discontinued operations, net profit from continued operations was $885 million, with positive contributions from all income streams. Underpinned by robust operating earnings from infrastructure, recurring income, which comprises asset management net profit and operating income, grew 54% to $773 million from $503 million a year ago. Valuation gains declined mainly due to lower valuation gains from investment properties. Development and EPC earnings was 14% higher year-on-year at $178 million, led by higher contributions from Singapore Trading Projects and Sino-Singapore Tianjin EcoCity. Excluding the DRS loss, gains from capital recycling increased by $145 million, primarily due to completion of several asset monetisation by real estate and connectivity segments. Net loss from corporate activities was $256 million as compared to $20 million in FY2022, mainly due to impact from classification of interest expense associated with the vendor notes and lower fair value gains from investments. Moving on to segmental performance. The infrastructure segment achieved a net profit of $699 million in FY2023, 135% higher than FY2022 of $297 million. This was led by strong operating income growth of $320 million driven by higher net generation and margins from the integrated power business, as well as special distribution from Capital Infrastructure Trust , partly offset by the lower share of results from an associated company following a dilution of interest in the fourth quarter of 2022. Notably, as at the end of 2023, about 60% of our power generation capacity was contracted for three years or more, while our long-term supply and services backlog reached $4.3 billion, bolstered by $1.6 billion of energy-as-a-service contracts secured during the year. Our expanding pipeline of long-term infrastructure contracts will continue to bolster Keppel's recurring income growth. Asset management net profit was 28% higher year-on-year, mainly from higher management fees due to a change in the fee structure that took effect second half of 2022 and better performance by KIT. These were partly offset by lower acquisition fees recognised during the year. The segment also recognised fair value gains from its sponsor stakes in infrastructure private funds as compared to losses in the prior year. As CEO mentioned, infrastructure is expected to be one of the fastest growing asset class and we're in a strong position to build on the momentum to capture the opportunities as an established infrastructure asset manager and operator. Despite challenging market conditions, U.S. state delivered creditable performance, continuing to record fair value gains from U.S. properties, achieving higher development profits as well as higher gains from capital recycling in 2023. Excluding the DIS loss, net profit for the year was $426 million, which was 8% lower than financial year 2022. Asset management net profit was lower year-on-year, mainly due to higher overheads to drive growth. The decline in operating income was a result of lower contributions from our sponsor stakes and co-investments, higher net interest expense, and costs incurred for new business engines. Last year's operating income benefited from a reversal of cost provisions relating to a commercial project in China. While fair value gains were lower year-on-year, development profits rose 11% to $197 million on the back of higher contributions from Singapore trading projects and Sino-Singapore Tenjin Eco City, which recognised profits from the sale of two land plots. Amidst challenging conditions, real estate segment also successfully completed monetisation of servant assets across Vietnam, India, Philippines, Myanmar, China and Singapore, banking in total gains of $105 million for the year. As the real estate division continues its pivot to become more asset-like, we will accelerate our focus on developing new growth engines and shoring up capabilities in areas such as sustainable urban renewal and senior living, which will generate more fee-based recurring income. Net profit from the connectivity segment of $127 million was 30% higher than financial year 2022 of $98 million, mainly due to higher recurring income and gains from capital recycling. The operating income increase was mainly due to higher earnings from M1, supported by its growing mobile services and enterprise revenues, as well as lower losses from the logistics business following divestment of the Southeast Asian operations in mid-2022. The segment also recorded gains from disposal of non-core assets and from the dilution of interest in the Bifrost subsea cable project with the onboarding of co-investors for our fibre pairs. These were partly offset by fair value loss on an investment, as well as lower fair value gains on data centres. Net loss from corporate activities was $256 million as compared to $20 million in FY2022. With the completion of the disposal of the offshore and marine business in February 2023, the effects of the retained CETRUM shares and asset co-vendor notes are reported under corporate activities. Since then, Keppel has recognised approximately $151 million of interest income net of fair value changes on the vendor notes. As the vendor note is a financial instrument and as required by accounting standards, the notes receivables have to be fair valued at initial recognition, or what we term as Day 1 fair value. The difference between the fair value and the transacted price is deferred and amortised over the expected life of the notes. During the year, about $150 million amortisation expense was recognised. The financing costs relating to the vendor notes are now reported under corporate activities, following completion of the Asseco transaction in February 2023. These were previously reported under discontinued operations in financial year 2022, hence explaining the difference in interest expense of financial year 2023. For the investments held at corporate level, lower fair value gains were recognised during the year, partly offset by gains recorded on the retained CETRM shares. Overheads were higher in financial year 2023, mainly due to transformation costs incurred. Prior year comparatives also benefited from right back of certain provisions which were no longer required. With that, we have come to the end of the presentation, and I shall hand the time back to CEO for the Q&A session. Thank you. Thank you, Kevin.

So now we come to the Q&A session. We have a couple of analysts who have joined us physically, so maybe I start with any questions that those who are here might have. Yes, please. Do you have a mic? Maybe we just... Explain who you are first.

Good morning, Chin Wan and team. Good morning. Congrats on a spectacular set of results. I got three questions. So my first question is, you set yourself a very high base for 2024. So just wondering, could you give us a sense in terms of growth, acquisition, some colour on divestments, what should we be expecting? Or do you have a divestment target for 2024? My second question is on the dry powder for your funds. I noticed that there's about $9 billion of embedded FUM. Could you share a bit more colour? Where does this dry powder sit in and which kind of asset class? And my last question is on your infrastructure operating earnings. I know it's $655 million. I'm just wondering whether, could you give us some colour, whether is it going to be sustainable for this year? That's all.

Thank you for the question. I will take the first question and maybe I'll get my colleagues to deal with the other two questions. So the first question is, we have been working really, really hard The last few years particularly, transforming capital, it was not done over a single year. One of the big contributions from last year was the divestment gains from the sale of KOM. That took a number of years, but of course it was accounted for last year. I think besides the gain, I think what is probably important to note is that, yes, we have quadrupled the profits and we have hit a record high for the group's 55-year history. But what's most important is that we have really transformed the group. I think if you think back even five or six years ago, the kind of earnings that you see compared to what we have today, we have achieved what we had, you know, one of the key tenets of Vision 2030, which was that we want to move away from lumpy profits to recurring income and to be asset light. So I think this is playing itself out very well. And you can see that from the results beyond the very good numbers that we have shown. I think for this year, obviously, I don't have another comp to sell. But I think if you compare, which we have done, looking at continuing business, we have also done very well. So if you take out the DIS loss, last year's numbers were also more than decent. In fact, it was quite good. The real estate group has contributed less, but given all the challenges that we have there, you can see that we have also done very well there. Of course, infrastructure, I'll let Cindy, in answering the question for the third part, talk more about it, but it's been spectacular for us, and we do believe it is recurring. We're working towards that. So I think for this year, our goal will be to continue to press on. I think my colleagues are already aware, since we came back from the New Year, I have given very strong... I think we have, to be fair, we are all quite an ambitious group, so it's not just me. We do want to do even better and accelerate more. So I think this year would be quite an interesting year. The external environment is quite challenging, but I think as I said in my speech, our business is in areas that are in demand, whether you're looking at infrastructure, including our connectivity segments, including digitalisation is growing well. Real estate side seems to be, you know, some markets still finding a bottom, but there are some markets that the deals are starting to look more interesting, and I'll let Chris talk more about that. So we do expect to see more funds being raised, more investments to be made. So this would help us in several ways. We will get obviously more fees, but also we would expect to see our AUM grow as well. And operating-wise, I think we are set to do the best that we can. So last year was a very high point, but it is by no means a high watermark. I think we expect to do better in the years to come. So I'll stop there. Maybe I'll ask Chris to address the second question. Then I'll say something before I hand over to Cindy on the third question.

Thanks, Derek, for the question. I think this year, 2024, will be a very exciting year for us because despite the volatile markets that we're seeing, I think that's where we also find good opportunities. We hear a lot of refinancing coming up and think that's where, you know, with less debt available, I think that's where I think equity players will have a good time trying to find some dislocations in the market and enter the market. Like we said, actually even last year we have been very active looking at deals in the market. I think the team looked at across like 300 billion of deals and then we funneled through about 14 billion of deals that were more seriously construing and we have indeed been in negotiations with the various vendors and some of the deals are actually closed recently. I've heard of MPEL just closed by KIT on the second day of New Year, and then we are closing another deal soon, which will be announced. So actually, I think the pace of investments will be much faster this year in 2024. And with all the global geopolitical issues and also elections coming up, a lot of countries are having elections this year. We believe that actually the market, the government would be there to support a more benign market. Interest rates, people are expecting some tapering off. lowering of the interest rates, I think that will actually augur really well for investments. So I think the three teams, the three segments, whether they are in real estate connectivity or infrastructure, are actively working through some of the deals. And we are seeing that very interesting opportunities happening. And I think the difference is that capital, besides being just an investor, we have really deep operating capabilities. And that actually helps us in terms of extracting additional alpha values created, rather than just going through just financing, structuring, or engineering in that sense. So we remained really excited about this year's performance.

Thanks, Chris. Maybe I just ask Cindy, you want to start first? I will supplement. Please, go ahead.

Sure. Happy New Year, everyone. I think for the Infrastructure Operating Division, we have always been very reserved, focused on improving the quality and the resilience of our earnings. So it is beyond just tactical capturing the market volatility, deep pricing. I would urge us to look at the past 12 quarters of transformation we have carried out in the Infrastructure Operating Division. So we have two integrated platforms there, one being the power business, the other one being the decarbonisation and sustainability solutions business. To improve the quality and resilience of our power business, as you have heard from Group CEO earlier, we have diligently contracted longer-term strategic power retail with very strategic customers. So 60%, nearly 60% of our electricity portfolio contract is long term, beyond three years or more. Besides that, we are also very diligent in expanding our generation capacity. As you have heard, we are the first to market in terms of planting a 600 megawatt hydrogen-ready CCGT. So this means that we are constantly improving our generation margin, not just at the back of electricity spread, but in terms of energy efficiency, number one. And number two, in terms of future proving our power business being ready to capture lower carbon energy demand in not just Singapore, but the region. This is where you see us also pushing ahead. in terms of developing the power interconnect for low carbon electricity grid in ASEAN. And we are working hard in pushing the development of such grid, which will not only benefit Kepo or Singapore, but it will benefit the region. As we all know, the more resilient is the region in terms of energy security and development, the more we can mitigate the volatility in Singapore. That's one part. I think on the sustainability and the carp piece, as you have heard, we have actively secured long-term contracted revenue, not just on the energy efficiency portion, but also on the waste water portion. And the quality of this revenue to be converted and translated into earning in years to come will help improve the resilience of our earning, because we have also actively diversified into jaw-free. So we have pursued diligently in the past few quarters jaw-free, where you see fundamental improvement in demand for sustainability solution. So diversification in terms of jaw-free, diversification to enhance resilience and quality of the earnings. And we have decisively shifted away from EPC projects. So the lumpiness and the tough cliff and the feast and famine earning profile is behind us. Thank you.

Thanks, Cindy. I think you've covered it very well. I think just want to kind of just highlight a point, not specific just to infrastructure. But just to kind of point out that the transformation at Capo is not just a cosmetic one. You can see that the whole organisation is transforming, including the businesses that we, or the segments that we have, whether it is infrastructure, it is M1, or it is our real estate division. We are, you know, re-looking at how to make ourselves relevant to the world and also how we can, all the different divisions can come together so that we can be, all the different segments can come together so that we can be a stronger contributor to Vision 2030. Thank you. Yes.

Joy from HSBC. Thank you. Three questions from me. First of all, on infrastructure, can you talk a little bit about the PPA and your strategy around longer-term contracts, how that could shift your profitability? And also on infrastructure, you've talked about energy as a service. When do you think we will be sort of mature? This business will be mature enough for you to actually separately report versus your existing power business. So that's one. Two second question on the fund management side. Would you still be looking out for platform deals or you will be focusing on the first closing of EMR? And last one on China in particular, in terms of real estate. The fund, is it an onshore fund or offshore fund? And also just on China assets, do you see risk of impairments or valuation losses going forward? Thank you.

Thank you. Can I ask Cindy to answer the first question, please?

On the power purchase agreement, long-term power purchase agreement side with global foundries, fundamentally, number one, we don't take the fuel volatility risk. That is very important. In fact, currently 100% of our portfolio is either fully hedged or indexed, passed through. So I think this is the discipline our commercial discipline when it comes to securing contracts. More importantly is also the strategic partnership with our client, not just a global foundry, even across the rest of our infra operating division, whether it is on the carb or sustainability solution, we see ourselves as long-term partner to our customer's needs. So for large strategic customer, as well as emerging customer with the potential to grow, we want to be the solution provider for their energy requirement. de-carb solution. So this kind of like does tilt very nicely to the second question you have on EAS. In fact, on the contrary, I don't foresee us breaking down and reporting each of our pursuits on a standalone basis. Increasingly, we will be converging towards being a one-stop solution provider for the customer. So for example, even if it's supply cooling as a utility to our client, they will have demand for renewable, for carbon services, including that of later on space and capital and the like. Thank you.

So this, what Sandeep just said, just to kind of add on to that, is that over time, as we, you know, I think your question is more on how you scale it up, right? So eventually, as we get to a right scale, there's also opportunities for us to securitise some of these contracts, and that will then allow us to grow even faster. Now, on your second question on whether we are looking at other platforms, maybe just say this. I think the announcement of the proposed acquisition of Amon has really kind of put us in the big leagues. People are now starting to take notice that, hey, There's this group called Capo and Amon is a quite well regarded platform. Someone tells me it's the last remaining independent real estate platform, management platform in Europe that's worth buying. And so we are very pleased that we are progressing with that. We have also been approached now since the announcement by various groups. But as I said during the announcement for Amon, it's a very rare deal. where it kind of checks the box for both sides. So if I have a list of what I'm looking for and Amon has a list of what they are looking for, I think both our lists will be, you know, the boxes will all be checked. So in other words, it's not easy to find the right platform. So we are open to it. As we've said before, we are growing organically, and we want to grow organically very strongly, very fast. You heard from Chris. But at the same time, we are open to inorganic, but we have to find the right platform. Maybe I'll ask Chris to answer the next question.

Thanks, Joy. On the China Fund itself, actually the money came from outside of China, right? but very strong support because I think they still believe in the China story in the long run. And I think they see that couple of quite differentiated proposition because in terms of our capabilities, operating capabilities, creating sustainable urban renewal solutions, we are able to actually improve on our NOI. So like every time we said, every dollar you save on NOI, If using a cap rate of 4%, you create $25 in value. So if you save $10 million, actually create about $250 million in value. So this is quite substantial. So in terms of when you talk about even like China assets, whether there's some impairment and all that, the truth is that, I mean, the market is a bit stressed right now. So in terms of cap rates, they may have expanded. But in terms of our capabilities, because Capo is quite unique in coming up with solutions, so we are able to actually improve the leasing, the NOI of the assets, and that in turn actually sort of rebalances it a bit. So I guess that's where I think the external investors find that Capo is quite an interesting, differentiated manager compared to others.

Maybe just a supplement there for if your question is relating to our own balance sheet. I think I've already pointed out that whilst China is still an important market for us, we have de-risked significantly over the last few years. And most of our holdings there are in land bank that are kept at historical cost. So even in today's more challenging markets, we still see quite good headroom because the land banks that we have were accumulated quite a number of years ago. Okay, maybe next question. Yeah.

Hi, I'm Melvin from JPMorgan. Congrats on the very strong results. Maybe we can go to slide 26 in terms of split between the length of contracts. Is this a good mix or do you expect to increase the proportion of contracts much longer duration?

Okay, maybe we stop there. Cindy, you want to...

So Singapore's power market is fully liberalized. It's a merchant market. And it's very integrative to the upstream gas contract and also the downstream growth in demand and also the type of customer. So when it comes to portfolio mix, it's not cast in stone. We are very driven by what kind of sprint we contract at, and also timing, and more importantly, the type of customer. So key to note is our Sacra co-gen is under construction in a very healthy progress, about 35% completion. So it will come commercial operation in early 2026. So from now to then, we are also actively re-managing or re-balancing our portfolio to make sure not only is the resilience there, but it will allow a bit of flexibility for us to capture any upside whilst we protect the downsides.

Thank you. My second question for Cindy. Sorry, I'm not supposed to direct questions. This is an infrastructure business. Have we largely recontracted everybody to the new market norms? Or are there still some legacy contracts which are perhaps on the lower margin side still in place? Maybe Cindy?

The traditional power market, usually you have spot six months, 12 months, 24 months. In fact, as an innovation, some years ago, people introduced 36 months. Then the energy market went through a bit of, I would say, mature development. And the Gencos are... very agile in responding to the changes in the market. There is also regulatory intervention, as you all have heard. I think all in all, the legacy contracts would have dropped off by now, if you were to just look at when the depressed market were, vis-a-vis the number of months that has lapsed. So this would also mean at the onset of the energy crisis and volatility, retailers or gentilers who are diligent and sharp enough to capture the contracts would have benefited from it in these coming months.

Okay, maybe if you don't mind, Ziwei, just wait a second. I will give a chance to those that are waiting online. There are a couple of questions. I'll come back to you. Okay, this one is also... Okay, so this is a question from Paul Chew of Phillip Securities. Will electricity generation margins in Singapore remain stable until 2026 when the new supply is turned on? I guess he's referring to the first plant that we are delivering, the SACRA project. The next question is, is there an opportunity to enter AI or GPU-only processing data centres? If yes, when? So maybe first question, can I ask Cindy?

The total number of generation units in Singapore, if you look at the age profile, about one-third will reach its end of life by 2030 to 2035. That's one. And secondly, the efficiency of the fleet in the market is also pretty, I think, is a competitive advantage. So if you ask me about generation margin, it's a function of efficiency, function of upstream gas contracting strategy, which is commercially sensitive. So we wouldn't have took the opportunity to plant it if we don't have confidence of the performance of the new unit. Let's put it this way. And I think this is further cemented by the fact that post our planting, we see EMA also calling RFP and giving a very strong signal that the foreseeable demand in the five years on is going to be very healthy. Thank you.

Thanks Cindy. So on this point on AI, definitely AI has had a very interesting, adding a certain, we've seen a very strong demand into the data centre space. We've seen that some of these data centres now are getting bigger and bigger. So I think there are great opportunities for us. Whether we need to go into a data center that's only for AI, I'm not so sure. But this is an area that obviously we are always dependent on what our customers are looking for. I think the key point here is that with AI, and it goes beyond generative AI, I think there's certainly, as I said, very strong interest in having more data centres and we've seen various announcements in the last week or so. The key contribution for Keppel is that we are very much in the leading age in terms of developing solutions that would lead to more energy efficient data centres, data centres that don't use portable water to cool, And these are areas that CAPL has been working on for years, so it's not something that we just suddenly thought about. And I think that puts us in a very strong position. And of course, one of the key things that CAPL can do that very few, if any, can do is that we also have an infrastructure division There's very much focus on looking at renewable energy, looking at hydrogen, looking at cooling. So all this put together puts us in a very strong position to solve for this challenge, which is how to provide more compute power for the data centres, yet take care of making them more sustainable, use less water, use less carbon, etc. So these are things that Keppel is very much positioned to do. And of course, not to forget, data centres are also quite capital-intensive. So for us, we have a really well-proven ecosystem of capital recycling. We create private funds to co-invest, and then after the asset is mature, we monetise them through the REIT as a strong sponsor. to KDC Read. So all this puts us in a very unique position in terms of playing our part in this digital transformation. Okay, next question. I'll take another question, then I go to Tzu Wei. Okay, this is a question from Brandon of Citi. What's the expected timeline to divest the $6.3 billion of residential land bank and inventories? What is the contribution from China for this $6.3 billion? And if China remains challenging, are there alternative plans to divest these assets? So if you look at the $6.3 billion, we have both the land bank as well as our credit notes from the asset co. I think that's how the $6.3 billion is made up of. The credit notes, as I mentioned, AssetCo has about $950 million in cash. The day rates, charter rates are all improving. So, obviously, we are hopeful that we will be able to take advantage of these increased inquiries to see how we can bring forward the repayment of these credit notes. As far as land banks are concerned, we have been actively divesting, including in China. I think last year, I'll let Louis add a few colours to it, but we have done some divestments, including in China. It is more challenging, for sure, but that has not stopped us from continuing to monetise. And we do have, as I've said before, we do have a pool of assets which will allow us to kind of bring, you know, assets that might have been planned for later years, bring them forward. If for whatever reasons, you know, the assets that we had planned to divest in the current period has some challenges. So there's some optionalities that we have. But maybe I'll ask Louis to talk a bit about China. Sure.

So just in terms of the asset monetisation for real estate, I think as CEO and CFO shared earlier, we monetised about $105 million in 2023. Out of that, $94 million came from a project in Chengdu in China. So we will continue to monetize. We have a land bank still of about $2 billion across our markets. China comprises about $1.1 billion of that. We have about 16,000 units more to sell in China. But I think as we look across the Chinese market, we have to time it right. And when the time is right, including in this year, we also have objectives to divest some of our assets.

Okay, Brendan has a follow-up question. I will address that, then I will come back to Ziwei, who is here. Brendan's question, in your 2024 New Year message, you mentioned that capital will continue to grow FUM to reach $200 billion by 2030, including through exploring opportunities to acquire other platforms to accelerate growth in your infrastructure and connectivity segments. Is it correct to say that you will no longer explore further acquisitions of real estate platforms and will instead focus on infrastructure and connectivity platforms? If so, what type of valuation multiples do you expect to pay? I think it is true that we are looking, we have been approached both from across the different, I would say all three segments. But given that we have quite strong, with the acquisition of Amon, we will be quite strong in the real estate side, the segment. We are already quite strong in the infrastructure and connectivity, but we are clearly, you know, looking to diversify a bit. So clearly looking at all those. But in terms of valuation multiples, I think, you know, I think we have been quite prudent in how we approach. I think we are paying something like 13, 14 times EBITDA multiple for a month. Yeah. So I think for Keppel, it's really looking for a win-win situation where we can actually not just be seen as an exit for the partners, but more importantly, how can we come together to create a bigger pie for everyone? And I think that was really the main challenge. rationale for both Amon and Keppel in pursuing that partnership. Okay, so now, sorry I'm coming back to Tzu Wei, he's been waiting patiently. Please, go ahead.

Thank you Chin Hua, and congratulations on your very strong set of results. I have two questions. The first one I think probably for you, and the second one is a series of questions for Cindy. First question is on your asset monetization. Momentum has clearly slowed in 23. It was a challenging year. So curious to hear what you think about this asset monetization in 2024. What should we look at? What's our number? Should we pencil in? And then the second question for Cindy, which you can answer later, is we had a large single external client in infrastructure contributing the largest amount of revenue in full year 2023. Who was that?

Okay, so we stop there first in case you have more questions. I think it's true our asset monetisation has slowed because quite a number of the assets that we have in the list are real estate assets. But as you have heard from Louis and CFO, you've seen that we have still managed to monetize, including in, if I can say, very difficult market like Myanmar. We have also been able to monetize. You know, you guys must think about it. It's not just a number, right? These guys managed to sell something in Myanmar. It's not easy. So it shows that my colleagues are all very focused on getting this done. And we've committed to getting it done. I think in terms of numbers, we are still looking at this $10 to $12 billion cumulatively by 2026. So this is kind of the number that we are shooting for. And I shed. earlier that Assetco is doing well. So I think we, you know, we've said before it's doing well, things are improving, but we're starting to see that it's not just improving, but we're starting to see, you know, $950 million in cash in Assetco. It's a clear sign that things are performing. And we're getting, or Assetco is rather, I should say, Assetco is getting good inquiries for the assets that we have there. So we are hopeful that we will be able to accelerate that. And we have about $4 billion in credit notes there. So that's not factored. The $900 billion over $1 million is not in the monetisation because it hasn't hit our books. It's at AssetCo. So that would be very big. And as what Louis has said, we're still looking at... monetizing our land banks. And the way we approach monetization, of course, we want to get the best price that the market can offer. We don't have to sell. We're not a for-seller. But at the same time, we also look at opportunity costs because if our assets are historical cause and there is a good time for us to divest. Of course, you all want to divest at the peak, but if there's a decent opportunity for us to divest, we will take it because we can redeploy the capital to earn more. Okay, I hope that answers. And then maybe I'll ask Cindy to...

Can I clarify, the question is on who are our large customer or is there one large customer?

You announced in your segment report that you're one large customer, about $1.9 billion revenue contribution coming from infrastructure development, infrastructure segment. Who was it?

Okay, I think you're referring to EMC. That's the wholesale market company, the clearinghouse for our sales of electricity.

Right. Thanks. So I just want to follow up on that, right? So in the first half, your single external client, EMC, was also your biggest at about 1.2. So your second half was actually a revenue decline of $700 million, right? So if EMC's revenue declined, but your infrastructure net profit still rose, and the net margin improved significantly from 11% to 18%, I'm quite curious to understand how that dynamic actually works.

Well. We tend to say this is part of our competitive advantages. So beneath it, if you unpack the number, there's a component of gas contracting, there's also a component of efficiency, and there's a huge component on the availability and the reliability of degeneration. So say, give and take, if you happen to be suffering from unplanned outages, you will have downside. So therefore, the quality of our O&M, which is operation and maintenance crew, in our operating assets is very important. This applies not just for the power generation, but also for waste to energy and our water assets. When they are not available, or when you didn't plan for the outage, the penalty of buying in a desperate manner from the marketplace is going to create damages to your financials, if you understand the market.

Thank you. I roughly understand that. But Deb was talking about just efficiency. So maybe could you just help us understand in terms of how you derive that margin expansion? I suspect it comes from the power side, considering that EMC is probably where most of your spot electricity sales goes to. Considering that SPARC spreads were actually down in second half, does that mean that this 18% that we're seeing on infrastructure's net margin for second half is the sort of baseline we should be thinking about your contracted positions going forward?

We'll keep it short. Let's get into the technicality. First and foremost, since last year, we don't have any of our customer on spot. That's number one. And number two, the contracted spread usually will be protected in the sense of it's either hatch or fuel pass-through. So revenue in terms of the electricity clearing prices is just a guideline. We focus on spread. That's the important part, yeah.

I think he's trying to understand where your spread, how come your spread is improving despite the... Which I have earlier explained a lot.

It's a function of gas price. It's a function of your operating margin, in this case efficiency of the machine, as well as your own OPEX.

Okay, thank you. Thank you. Suki has been waiting patiently. I've been asked to make sure that I don't ignore you anymore. So please.

Okay, I will not ask Cindy on why the spread is so strong, but can I just understand that the quantum of growth of infra is because you had actually managed to very opportunistically close contracts at higher spread from all the older contracts that roll off, let's say they have two to three years. So with that, can we just expect that I know that your profitability for infra will be sustainable. I think that's a message that you're trying to tell us that it is sustainable. But we're trying to understand whether the growth could just be maybe just steady because you have actually rolled off. You have already recontracted all the older two to three years contracts in the past two years. That's question one.

Maybe we stop it there first. Cindy, you want to take that?

By the same token, as we progress along, there will be customers who will be coming on stream to look for electricity contracts purchases. So our commercial team and our retail team is, like I said earlier, raise a focus in how we respond to customers' RFP for electricity proposal. The healthy spread, let me just emphasize, is not taken for granted. It's a portfolio approach. There are times whereby we didn't want to engage in a price or spread war to the bottom. So that is the key. Our contracting, the way we contract our portfolio allows flexibility. And to us, flexibility is very important. Even the upstream sources of gas, the flexibility of our gas supply is very, very important. So it's really a secret sauce, which I think over the quarters we have demonstrated, even during the most trying times, we remain disciplined.

So Cindy, like a very good chef, always invites you to her place to cook you the meal, but she won't tell you what the recipe is.

Just to confirm, the increase is mainly from power and there's no gas opportunistic sale, right?

Well, if you look at the spot gas now, the spot gas price doesn't allow any opportunistic gas optimization. But for us, I think we have the benefit of not depending on a single source of gas. Let me just say that.

Just in the slide, you mentioned that there's fee structure change for higher asset management fee. Can we elaborate on that? In the slide it says that we have a change in the positive fee structure change and higher asset management fee.

So this is the process that I think KIT went through to change or revise its fees arrangement, which was approved by their shareholders at an EGM last year. So this one has kicked in and has resulted in a higher fee income. But of course, this higher fee income is on the back that we have actually created more value for KIT shareholders.

So remember that KIT made a special distribution out of Exerm's value creation. So that was actually quite a large distribution to unit holders. And on the back of that, there are some fees related to it.

So it's like a performance fee that kicked in.

I just have three more questions. What is the valuation gain in infra?

Valuation gain in infrastructure relates more to the private funds. So that's CAIF, Capital Asia Infrastructure Fund 1. Yeah.

And we had some industrial land sale in SSTC in the second half. So that actually clocked in quite a fair bit, like about $30 million of gain. So just wanted to just check that, you know, going forward, I guess, is that the opportunity that you see more in 2024 to

I think we continue to see, I mean, we've been in SISTEC for now over 15 years. And over this period of time, actually, again, it's at historical cost that we have the land. So any land sales is actually quite accretive to us. And we do see continuing opportunities as a pipeline of land plots to be sold. And these will be agreed with the partner on when to release it for sale.

Then finally for Chin Hua, you mentioned that you're looking at S-curve growth. So where are we right now? Where are we? You're not talking about S-curve profits, you're talking about the growth momentum. So I just wanted to hear your views on why you use S-curve.

I think you can see that obviously we had as we kind of restructure and we transform, our original high was, you know, quite high, but, you know, this was back in, say, 2014, 2013, when the group had also quite a big year. So from that point through, of course, we had the, I don't know, you take a long time, but we went through the history of what happened with the oil price and how it badly affected KOM. So we kind of bottomed out a few years ago, and I think we can see that These last two years have been quite transformative. And as I mentioned, it's not just about the financial numbers, but it's really how the group is now positioned for the future growth. And when it comes to growth, a lot of times, it's not just about... I mean, profits are important, but it's really how the market will value our profits. So we're hopeful that as we become more recurring and we have become more growth-oriented, that you know, analysts like you will start looking at applying a growth multiple to our earnings. So the growth will come in various forms. It will come from, obviously, profit growth. But I think more importantly is the type of earnings that we have, the quality of the earnings. and the type of earnings that are recurring will hopefully allow the market to apply a growth multiple, rather than looking at the traditional way where you look at price to bulk, discount to RNAV, etc. Maybe I take one question and I will come back to you. This is from Gula Warden of The Age in Singapore. Congratulations on your excellent results. As an alternatives asset manager, what are your priorities in terms of the different groups of investors, such as capital shareholders and your REIT unit holders, as you get towards your 200B target? Will REIT unit holder interests still be protected? Short answer is yes. But I think what's probably more important is that As we position ourselves as a global asset manager, we can only be successful if we continue to put investors' interests first. Of course, we have many stakeholders, including, of course, our own shareholders. And I think our shareholders will know that almost all the time, our interest is aligned. between the shareholders and our investors in the funds and the REITs that we run. Where there are situations where there is a potential conflict, we have very good, strong corporate governance to deal with the IPT. But I see that taking care of different stakeholders' interests is very paramount to the group. And specifically, to answer your question on unit holders for REITs or our LPs for the funds, as a global asset manager, we cannot not look after their interests. If we don't look after their interests, we don't have a business. I think a case in point recently, which was announced by KIT, is perhaps a good demonstration. Through the good work done, of course, between KIT and also the sponsor, our infrastructure division, we were able to work with the NEA to extend the contract for Sunoco. So it was coming to an end. And so I think it clearly shows that, you know, we can work in a situation where we are creating value for the unit holders of KIT. And also at the same time, it's good for capital shareholders because obviously we'll earn fees as well for the infrastructure division and our asset management division. But at the same time, we are also an investor. We have shares in KIT, so we will also benefit as a unit holder. So I don't see that there's any cause for concern. As we push towards 200, if anything else, I would say that investors in our REITs and also our LPs in our funds should be very comfortable that we will continue to look after their interests in the progress of also looking after the interests of our shareholders. I'll answer one more question and then I'll come to the audience here. This is from Yi Tian Chor of AMAT in Singapore. The question seems to have come from a retail shareholder. A big chunk of profit from real estate was from valuation gains. With China's real estate slump, how bad will it impact future earnings? Will there be any impairments on it? Appreciate more colour on this aspect. I think that has been dealt with between myself and Louis, so I will not go further into it. Can I... Take one question from the floor. Yep.

Hi, this is Joel from DBS. So congrats on the good results. I just had two questions. The first is regarding your gearing. So I'm just wondering if you have an internal gearing ceiling, and has this changed since the new environment, which is like higher interest rates right now? And my second question is regarding your operating cash flow. I noted that your working capital deficit is rather high. Just wondering which segments are consuming this, and will this continue? Thank you.

Okay, I will ask Kevin to address those two questions.

Just in relation to the first one, I mean, gearing has obviously been something that we manage very closely as far as what we've said around utilising. We have an internal ceiling on not to cross one for us to manage. Obviously, as CEO has mentioned, As the profile of our earnings as a group changes, then we expect that to be easier to manage as we pivot our organization.

The second question is? The second question on working capital.

Sorry, can?

The working capital. Increase.

Working capital, the increase in working capital is essentially in relation to some of our projects that we continue to build. It's a timing issue as far as work that has been done, but collection will come a bit later on. So that's the explanation for working capital increases, primarily in the infrastructure segment.

So would this continue? I'm just wondering what would the working capital deficit look like going forward?

Working capital deficit, I think you would expect it to narrow as we go forward with our change of plans because I think to the point of how you look at our businesses to evolve going forward. But as it relates to some of these projects, you will continue to see some gaps in our working capital because there's a timing difference when we cut off. as we continue to build these projects. But you're right to say that over time, if you look at the profile of our earnings, yes, the working capital deficit you will see narrowing.

Or that's what you would expect to see. I think generally you expect it to come off. Because two things. I think one, we are not actively buying land bank or land for development for sale. So we're not adding to the... Because those will all be classified as working capital. We also are not, you know, in the past, I mean, a long, long time ago, we were doing all those rig constructions on deferred payment. So that required a lot of working capital from COM in those days. Now all the projects that Cindy takes under the infrastructure division, there is milestone payments. So this working capital increase is more a timing issue as well. Kevin is, we are as a group, we are now, I mean, we have been very, very focused on making sure that our balance sheet is managed carefully. The other thing I will add is that as we, as what Kevin have said, as we kind of transform the group's earnings The net gearing also becomes less meaningful. So you see that in more recent times, we have been reporting the net debt to EBITDA. So we will continue to develop that. more as a measure, because as you see the changes in our earnings, that's probably more a metric to focus on. Especially as we clear our land banks, we clear our credit notes, then the thing becomes a little bit more clearer and maybe at the subsequent results briefing we will also try to dissect that to give the market a better sense of how we are approaching some of these debt numbers or debt metrics okay okay thank you yes

Hi, good morning. Dexter from Bloomberg News here. I wanted to ask you, I know a lot of people have asked you this question, but on China specifically, it's still your biggest presence in terms of residential and commercial land. I take your point that you have mentioned that you are going to divest from China, but is it still going to remain your biggest market in the long term? Is that still your target? Are you progressively trying to divest in the sense that it will gradually reduce, become second or third, because it's still quite a big part of your portfolio. In terms of outlook for China, Evergrande obviously decredited this week. Do you still think there's more to come or worse to come in the market? And I also take a point just now that you guys are obviously looking for a try opportunity to divest. A lot of asset managers right now, we hear from them say that it's very hard to find buyers in the Chinese market right now and you need huge discounts. Are you facing that challenge now as well? Okay. Yeah.

Thank you for your question. I think first and foremost, we are a bit ahead of the game compared to a lot because we have, as I said, we've been actually de-risking from China since 2017. We have, as I said, we have not only sold $3 billion worth of land bank there, making a profit of $1 billion, but we've also brought back about $5 billion worth of renminbi. And that's because our business model has changed. We are no longer buying land, not just in China, we're not buying land almost everywhere. Where we buy land to develop, it will be usually as part of a fund. So it's not just strictly on our balance sheet. So I think that is something that has changed for us. And the other thing I wanted to say also is that you might have caught that we had announced last year that we had re-looked at our China playbook. The group has been in China for 30 years. We have done very well there. We still believe that China is a very good market long term. We will continue to be engaged there. But the things that we will do there will change. So it doesn't mean that we will continue to do more residential land development. We have re-looked at our playbook, looking at what does China need today. What are the areas that capital can bring value to the new China? and also looking at what are the areas that the policymakers in China are encouraging and what are the areas they're discouraging. And actually, we find that we have quite a lot to offer for the new China, but it may not well be in the old traditional ways of building homes for sale. So I think that's the change that you should factor in.

I mean, you mean on largest market then?

I can't hear you.

Can you please... Does that really mean your largest market? Or the largest focus of your firm going forward?

We have now said we're going to be a global asset manager. So, you know, obviously it cannot be that... I mean, it will be an important market, but it cannot be our only market. So we are now... I mean, the Amon acquisition is a clear indication of the group's move to be more global. and it's not just about whether it's China or not China, it's really more global versus, say, Asia Pacific.

So, does that mean that you guys will focus more on Europe and US for future acquisitions, in a sense, than instead of Asia?

Well, we are growing. So, if we are going to grow to $200 billion, it doesn't mean that we go to Europe and we stop in Asia. So, not everything is in black and white. I think you're trying to kind of paint it in black and white. We're just saying that we are We are growing as a group, so we are going to be global, so we'll continue to be active in Asia Pacific, but we are also growing new areas.

Just two questions on Singapore and one on your restructuring. One on, I noticed for 19 Nassim specifically, the unit sold has been about half. Is there a reason why it's been not as high as other projects that you had? And the second thing is on, you guys are really restructuring and you got a huge profit from the sale of OAM last year. Do you foresee any more core sales as part of your restructuring? Or sales of any core units as part of your restructuring going forward?

We don't speculate on these things. I know you all like to know, but when the deal is done, we will tell you. But I can't tell you anything for now.

I think on Nassim, do you want to... Yeah, on 90 Nassim, we have sold about 15% so far. A reason for this is also the ABSD rules that changed last year, so that slowed demand. But we're still continuing to see interest from buyers. And we have quite a lot of time to play with because we have a very small ABSD, which we have actually already paid for because we actually own most of the units when we redevelop 19 Nassim. So the time pressure on us is a lot less. And even for the QC, it's up into 2026. So we have time to sell our units.

Thank you, Louis. Can I move on to two questions from the web? First question is put up by Paul Chu. He had asked earlier. Paul is from Philips Securities. Can you share some colour on your conversations with the funds when building AUM for, I guess he meant fund investors, AUM for infrastructure? What are the attractions of working with capital and potential pushbacks, if any? Chris, you want to do this? Sure, yeah.

Thanks, Paul. For infrastructure, actually, the investors are really actually finding the sector really attractive because, like we say, infrastructure is really essential services with very good cash flow and inflation hedge. So there's a lot of interest from investors. And I think what's really unique about Capo, which they like, is that we are really in the right space at the right time. We are in the, you know, providing solutions, whether it's for... clean energy, clean water, clean environment. And that's what the world really needs with growing urbanization trends. So we will say that actually Kapo is really in the right segments. And we have very deep operating capabilities as well in these various segments that we have, generating actually more value for investors. And I think they also like the fact that we're in digital infrastructure. So I think there is no other fund manager like Kapo who can build a subsea cable from the west coast of U.S. to Guam, to Singapore, and then linking up the rest of Asia. I think they find that all these are very unique skill sets or operational capabilities that Kapo have. that they can't find working with other managers. So this remains something that is something which investors all like and is attracted to Capo. And I think thirdly is because Capo has remained very focused because we are in operations. So we are very good in terms of value creation. So the more visible ones, we may not announce everything that we are doing for private funds, but the more visible ones you will see in KIT, where we actually create a lot of value with even with EXIM, generating extra additional cash distribution for investors, growing the EBITDA from 120 million to 200 million, even during the COVID period. So, you know, Capo is always looking for ways to improve our performance. So we are not the current managers, so we're just waiting to sit there to... hoping that success is based on financial structuring or engineering. But we are more operational in terms of our capabilities. So I think the value creation bit is where our investors, I think, find it interesting. And because infrastructure is an asset class which a lot of CIOs are looking to actually allocate more capital to, so we're seeing actually strong growth in this area. Thank you.

Thanks, Chris. There's a question from a shareholder, so I think we should take that. He has three questions. They're all for, I think, for Cindy. So, Mr Tan, I will go one question at a time, otherwise we all cannot remember. So the first question that Mr Tan has asked is, Capital has signed up various MOUs for the last couple of years, Any indications of which of these MOUs are getting closer to execution stages? Cindy, maybe we can try and answer as shortly as possible. Otherwise, there might be more questions. Okay, go ahead.

So thanks, Chung Kit. The various MOUs are healthily progressing. Some are multi-years kind of partnership. Some are very tactical and... executable. So those relating to EAS, for example, that we announced last year in Vietnam, Thailand, they have translated into contracts and some of them are already contributing to our earnings.

Okay, thank you. Second question is, in your opinion, how is Keppel progressing on regional ASEAN grid with MOUs and import approvals from EMA?

So you would have heard, as part of building the energy resilience of Singapore and the region, as well as in the pursuit of decarbonization by using more renewable. ASEAN Power Grid is a very strategic imperative for Southeast Asia, and Singapore has played a very leading role in making this happen. To this end, Keppel has secured 1.3 gigawatt of conditional approval for the power importation project. This is progressing pretty healthily. As we all know, such projects entails multi-consideration, some being legal, some being jurisdiction, regulatory, operational and technical. So it will take a bit of time to iron out the development, but happy to say that we are the first that managed to flow multi-borders renewables across Laos, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore. So this learning curve and this track record will position us even better in risk management and bringing such import projects to fruition in time to come.

Thank you. Third question, Cindy. How is your progress on MOUs for low carbon energy alternatives? given that green coal in India appears to be making a lot of ground in India in that area?

So this is a bit linked to the earlier comment on the MOU. So if I were to categorise our MOU side, like I said, a big chunk would be related to low-carbon energy. In fact, we are the forerunner, unprecedented, to use low-carbon energy energy value chain in a scalable manner. So other than the EAS MOU which I mentioned earlier that has translated into contracts or already delivering, some of our low carbon energy MOUs with Green Coal for example, with IPL and the CQH2 in Australia has reached some at the feed, some at the pre-feed. For the CQH2 in Queensland, happy to report that our consortium is one of the six successfully shortlisted for the Hydrogen Head Start program in Australia. And this is going to be pretty interesting development to watch.

Thank you, Cindy. There's a question from Anita Gabriel of the Business Times. Her question is, the lion's share of capital's revenue stems from Singapore. Can I have an idea on how this geographical spread has changed over the years and how much of that happened in recent years? owing to the transformation programme, and what can we expect going forward? It's a good question, Anita. I think first and foremost, if you look at how the group's revenue has changed over the years, uh i think you know we have always had uh very you know the revenue the top line one of the two of the biggest contributors uh were from com uh as well as from uh uh capital land in terms of the old capital land in terms of uh residential development for sale uh of course uh comms is no longer now part of the group And even on the real estate division, as I think we've explained, we are no longer emphasising on land development for sale, so we are focusing more on recurring income on the urban renewal programme that we have. But in its place now, we have the biggest contributors are from Infrastructure Division and also from M1 under our Connectivity Division. And at this moment, most of that revenue is generated in Singapore. Of course, you have also heard from Cindy that we are now also, well, we are not forsaking Singapore. We are, in fact, doubling down with planting a new power plant here in Singapore. We are importing power. renewable energy as well, but the infrastructure division is also looking outside Singapore as well. So I think you will start to see that having an impact over the years to come. Then I think the other thing to remind ourselves is that as we kind of become a global asset manager, and operator. The asset management side, revenue is not as significant because we are really focusing more on AUM and net profits. But because we are an operator, the revenue side is important from that perspective. So I think there's a bit of that change that we have to kind of take into account. And on the asset management side, whilst we book our asset management fees in Singapore, many of the assets that our funds invest in, our REITs invest in, increasingly will be overseas. And this is not very different from how Singapore has grown as a financial centre. It doesn't mean that all the activities happen here, but this is where we have our headquarters. This is where we are the headquarter of a global asset manager, so we could have earnings in different parts of the world outside Singapore, but it gets impacted here or recognised here. I hope that answers your question. There's one more question.

Sorry, Chin Wah. Don't want to unnecessarily delay your celebrations for fantastic results and hopefully good bonuses for the team on the hard work for the last couple of years. Just a couple of questions, maybe for M1. I think one of the key growth drivers was the return or recovery of the roaming business. How far are we from 2019 levels? And in terms of cost savings from decommissioning the old tech stack, can you help us quantify the cost savings going forward? And the second question is in regards to your Vietnam business. Obviously, we have changes in land reform being passed, significant drop in mortgage rates. How do you think about that business? Should we be seeing acceleration in terms of units sold or launched? And would there be opportunity for us eventually to buy something from Sport City, which has been delayed for many years?

Okay. I think Man was hoping to get away with our question, but he's got one. So, Aman, can you take the first question?

I think we almost had an eye contact and he caught me looking at him. No, but to your questions first on roaming, I don't think we've reached the pre-COVID levels yet. I think we are close to about 80% of pre-COVID levels. My suspicion is that they may not ever reach pre-COVID levels because I think people have learned to live without traveling all the time. So I do expect a marginal increase from where we are, but I don't think we'll ever get back to pre-COVID levels on roaming. So that's the question on roaming. On decommissioning, as we migrate our customers, we've completed our consumer migration to the new platform. We are now looking at migrating our corporate customers, our prepaid customers, and then finally our B2B enterprise business as well. So as we migrate to the new platform, we are decommissioning the legacy stack, which has significant impact on our positive impact on our bottom line on costs, saving costs. This year, because it's a staggered decommissioning, we expect close to about 10 million to our bottom line. And as we go along, the full year impact would be felt in 25, 26 going forward. But of course, like I said, it's a staggered decommissioning plan and we are being very careful in how to decommission the legacy so as to not impact the service to the customers.

Thank you. I think contextually, I think Vietnam, we've been in Vietnam as long as China, so over 30 years. And it will remain one of our key markets in emerging Asia alongside India and China. But I think as we've shared, we're also pivoting to the developed markets in Asia as well as Europe with Ammon. Specifically in Vietnam, I think one of the issues at the moment, as you would be aware, is the anti-corruption drive that the government is pushing hard on. And this has created a higher air of caution. And so that's what creates quite a lot of delays in terms of the sales permits or construction permits that we can get to launch projects. But notwithstanding that, I think the underlying demand in the market is very strong. So when we do launch, we actually sell very quickly. Even our partner recently, they had a project called Previ, I think about 1,043 units. Within two, three days, they sold 90%. So the underlying demand is there. I think what we need to do is to navigate the system to get the approvals that we can get to launch our projects. including Saigon Sports City.

Thank you. If there are no further questions, I want to thank everyone for attending this call and asking very good questions for myself and for my team. Have a great Chinese New Year, Lunar New Year.