Lagardere Sa

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us this evening to Lagarde RSA and the Louis Hachette Group's 2024 results. I'm Emmanuel Rapa, Head of Financial Communication, and I will be guiding you through this presentation. Tonight, the conference follows a new format. We will go through Lagarde RSA first in terms of results, and then go with Louis Hachette Group results, Thus, the call will be led by Arnaud Lagardère, Chairman and CEO of Lagardère SA and Hachette Livre SA, Jean-Christophe Thierry, CEO of Louis Hachette Group, and Grégoire Castin, Deputy CEO of Lagardère Group in charge of finance and Deputy CEO of Louis Hachette Group. Dag Rasmussen, Chairman and CEO of Lagardère Travel Retail, Claire Leost, CEO of Prisma, are also here with us. After the presentation, I will be reading the questions from financial analysts only. And now I leave the floor to Arnaud Lagardère.

Thank you so much, Emmanuel, and good evening to all of you. It seems that we have a big crowd today, more than 100 people listening, so it's good. We take it as a huge compliment, obviously. So as far as Lagardère is concerned, we broke, I think, a record for the past 15 years, both in sales and in results. And this is clearly the result, the consequence of the strategy that we've put in place a little more than 15 years ago, by the way, by reducing the number of businesses and focusing more on few activities with the ambition to put them on the podium. Not only they are today on the podium regarding Hachette Book Group and Lagardère Travel Retail, but also they have a strong, solid sales and raise up, obviously. So I would like to take the opportunity to really thank and congratulate 30,000 almost colleagues of Lagardère for the tremendous job that they have done. As you know, strategy is one thing, but the execution is sometimes way more difficult. To reach that goal, we had to invest over the years quite a significant amount of cash, APEX, OPEX, and acquisitions also. And the result of that is obviously the debt. Now we're opening a new page of the company with Vivendi coming on board and the fiscal year of 2024 actually is the first year of Vivendi, now more Groupe Bolloré on board of Lagardère. So the focus is pretty much the same and the benefit of having Vivendi is quite significant. First of all, we have a more peaceful environment with our shareholders. That was not a hard thing to do, by the way. Second, we have some business synergies that we've started to implement with Groupe Canal. We might have some and will have some with Prisma. Maybe my colleague, Claire, will talk about that later on. And also with Avas to a certain extent. The also benefit we have is the cash focus that is becoming a priority for us. As you know, during the year 2024, and we'll continue to do that in 2025, we try not to spend too much cash in the operations, not milking the company, obviously, but taking care of reducing the debt. And you will see, Gregor will tell you that we are really, really on track. And regarding the benefits, last but not least, we did our own Mercato, as we used to say in the football field, and we had the opportunity to bring on board to Lagardère a couple of great, great people, starting with Jean-Christophe Thiry, who is here, with Grégoire Castin, but also people that are not here, maybe listening to us, like Maxime Saada and Michel Sibonyi. So to conclude, I would like to say that we are not ready to move forward with a lot of confidence for this coming year since we have two very strong businesses and we are ready to take any opportunities to grow. Taking care at the same time, as I said before, and I would like to emphasize this and repeat it again and again, being very, very cautious about the cash that we will invest in all our divisions. Now, I'm glad to leave the floor to my friend Grégoire and ready to get back to you for the Q&A session.

Thank you. Thank you very much, Arnaud, and good evening to everyone. I'm really pleased to share with you for the second time at Lagardère Level and for the first time at Louis Hachette Group Level strong and remarkable results. We will go as Emmanuel mentioned it through the Lagardère result and then shared the figures at the Louis Hachette Group level. So starting with the Lagardère figures, as you can see, at the end of year 24, Lagardère Group's revenue reached its highest historical level at nearly 9 billion euros and is up 11% as reported and 8.5% on the Like for Life basis. The group's recurring EBIT continued to break records at 593 million euros, up by 73 million versus last year. The adjusted EBIT or EBITDA was up 23% as just below 500 million euros. And the free cash flow also improved significantly at 523 million, increasing by 162 million compared to 23. As a result of this very high level of free cash flow, the net debt decreased by 188 million euros, enabling us to have a strong deleveraging to a ratio of 2.4 compared to 3 at the same period last year. Let's have a closer look to the revenues evolution. And as you can see, on this slide. Again, the growth in terms of revenue is 10.6% as reported and 8.5% on a like-for-like basis. The main difference comes from the scope effect. The scope effect was a net positive of €452 million, which mainly includes the impacts of the acquisition of Costa Coffee Marché in Germany and Test on the Fly in the US at Travel Retail in 2003, and the sale of Paris Match in 2004. If we now focus on the like-for-like growth, it's important to point out that all activities showed positive growth this year. La Garda Publishing revenues grew by 1.9% on a like-for-like basis. La Garda Travel Retail reached a new peak in terms of revenues, increasing by 12.5% on a like-for-like basis, and other activities were up 0.2% on a like-for-like basis, and 1.3% on actual figures, by the way. Moving on to profitability, as I already mentioned it, our recurring EBIT raise up in France rose significantly by 73 million, and reached an historical level at 5%. We are really happy to see that this high level of recurring EBIT is almost equally supported by the two main activities, €310 million for the publishing, €305 million for the travel retail. It's good to see that there is henceforth a challenge for the leading position within the group. So let's have a look now to the cash flow on slide seven. As I told you in July, the group's free cash flow generation was one of the key priorities for the group this year. And as you can see, our effort drove to a high level of $423 million in 2014. This strong increase is mainly linked to publishing with 177 improvements year on year, mainly thanks to the quite low 24 basis, 23 basis, sorry. 23 was actually impacted by a negative change in working cap and by a high level of capacity to the logistic and IT transformation project. With $274 million free cash flow generated in 2024, publishing came back to a very good level of rapid conversion into cash flow. Travel retail generated $188 million in line with strong operational performances. The net small decrease of $37 million was due to a very good level of working cap in 2023, mainly linked to the post-COVID effect. Regarding this variation of working cap, to make a long story short, the very high level of recovery in 2024 had a strong impact on stock. Even if the growth is still very strong in 2024, the impact on stock is much lower in 2024 than in 2023. Regarding the capex, our capex increased by 3%. 56 million at Lagardère Travel Retail in 2024 compared to 2023 and amount this year to 250 million euros. So if we focus on cash generation, we don't want to milk the business as Arnaud mentioned it and we want to fuel the future growth of these activities and that's why we invest a lot in 2024. On the next slide, regarding cash and notably the performance of TrueAvailableTrader, I think it's even better to focus on the free cash flow after M&A impacts. It's how cash flow, operating cash flow, less tax paid and less M&A effects. And as you can see, in 23, community cash outflow was minus 74 million euros, with a positive contribution only at publishing level. This year, in 2024, all our three activities generated a positive cash flow after investing for a community impact of 518 million euros. So again, a very strong performance. On the next slide, in a nutshell, thanks to these good operational performances and to a strong discipline on M&A, the net debt decreased by 188 million compared to 23. Beside the operational cash flow, the sale of Paris Match was definitely a material cash inflow, partially affected by the acquisition of Sterling Union Square by Lagardère Publishing and by the passage of a participation in X-Time Travel Essential, our JV with Aéroport de Paris. Then last year, we paid dividends for a total amount of 154 million, and we paid also 176 million of interest and other charges. This very high level of interest is, of course, the main motivation for us for leveraging the group. So as a conclusion, thanks to this strong discipline of all the teams, We are really happy to achieve our target with a leverage below 2.5 times and even 2.4 times at the end of this year compared to last year as of December. Let's move on to the details of our main VU starting with Lagardère Publishing. As already mentioned, like other publishing, revenue was up nearly 2% on the Like for Like babies this year, at nearly 4 billion euros, mainly supported by our international activities. International revenues, as you can see now, represent more than two-thirds of publishing revenues, and our activities are very well balanced between the US, UK, and France. In the US, the revenue was up 7%, And in the UK, after a very good 23 years, they were also up 3%. In France, after a very solid 23 years, the revenues were slightly declining, reflecting a softer performance from general literature segment due to a lighter release schedule, and from illustrated books with the lack of a new asterisk release this year. Sales in education were also slightly down to the lack of curriculum reform in France and in Spain. More generally, on the next slide, we can also highlight our well-balanced and diversified activities. As you know, the group is well-balanced between geographies. Publishing also benefits from a well-diversified portfolio of activities. The development is quite stable compared to last year. And we can point out that the general literature is still our biggest branch, with sales that was notably boost in 24 by our digital offer. By digital, I mean audiobook and e-book, for which we are witnessing a strong growth, as you can see. The momentum is particularly strong in the US and the UK. For instance, Hachette has been the biggest player since 2020 in the UK. And in 2024, both audiobook and e-book represent 14% of total publishing revenues, up from 12% in 2023. I won't give the figures country by country, but there is definitely a big gap regarding digital revenue between France on one side and UK and US on the other side. I would tend to think that this is definitely one of the growth potential for the France. And to finish on this slide, let me highlight, for instance, the impressive growth of board games, which is still a small part of our activities. It's not our core business, but we are now the second player in the French market. And it's also a good way, and not the only one, to find growth relay and increase margin. So we are now the second player, as I mentioned, we are really profitable and we had an increase by more than 20% for a year in terms of revenues. Leading us to the next slide regarding profitability for the publishing, Lagardère publishing profitability reached 310 million euros. a 9 million increase compared to 23, maintaining profitability at a very high level with almost 11% of EBIT margin. We achieved the city results thanks to a several mix of sales in the US and the UK, particularly regarding the digital, which could be relative for our margin, and with a strong backlist and cost-saving measures in France. Let's move on to Lagardère Travel Retail. 24 was another remarkable year for Lagardère Travel Retail at 5.8 billion euros of revenue with solid performance across all our geographies. The MES zone recorded 20% growth driven by continued traffic recovery. In France, Lagardère Travel Retail maintained its leading position with sales improvement by 15% versus last year. U.S. activities was also up 6% on an already high basis of comparison and in the context of stabilization or small growth of air traffic. And Asia-Pacific revenues declined by 13% due to, as you know, lower activity in China. Despite this situation in China affecting many players and many more than us, Overall growth of the branch remains very positive with, again, 12.5% on a like-for-like basis. Let's deep dive into the division revenue for Lagardère Travel Retail. As you know, Lagardère covers all the segments of travel retail with travel essentials, duty-free and fashion, and dining. With this model, we develop holistic shopping experiences for passengers. In 24, business line mixed moved slightly with continuous growth in dining, winning two points, mainly driven by the full impact of Test of the Fly acquisition in November 23. Moving on, the profitability of La Garda Travel Retail. As already mentioned, we are really pleased to share this recurring EBIT, which was at a high. an all-time high level with up 25% compared to last year and 305 million euros. Our profitability reached 5.3% plus 0.4% versus last year. Travel and Trail reached these strong performances thanks to improvement of air traffic, focus on organic growth, Again, strong cost of control. And last but not least, successful integration of our latest acquisition. Let's move on to the other activities. As you know, this BU combines media and entertainment businesses. Revenue for this year increased to 257 million euros. A few points to be highlighted. First, the good momentum in radio activity driven by the audience growth at Europe 1. The second one is the press activity, which was down 5% due to lower advertising revenue, but all licenses were again up 2% compared to 23%. And finally, Lagardère Live Entertainment recorded a growth thanks to the successful programming of our live entertainment, The News. Few words on the ESG strategy. In 2004, it was, again, another year of progress. On this slide, you can see some of our achievements and our efforts to limit the impact on environment, to place people at the heart of our strategy, to enhance our ethical responsibility, and to inclusively share cultural activities. Let me only point out three items. Maybe the first one, at Lagardère Publishing, as you can see, we want to reduce by 25% plastic use by 2023. At Lagardère Travel Retail, we target to offer 75% of recycled water bottles in our shops by the end of this year. And regarding the audiobooks, as you can see, today we have 20,000 audiobooks which are available from our backlist, which is good for sharing culture with as many people as we can and also good for boosting our digital business. This is, I think, good. Example on ESG stakes, which is aligned with business and operational stakes. If I move to the coming year, 2025, regarding 2025 in April, the Board of Directors will propose to the AGM a dividend payment of 67 euro cents per share for 24, which is an increase of roughly 3% compared to last year. And for the next year, we are again confident on our ability to continue on the growth path and intend to maintain our efforts to ensure a well-balanced capital allocation policy between investments to develop the business, reasonable dividend level and debt I now hand over to Jean-Christophe for turning to Louis Hachette Group, and then I will come back for the figures.

Thank you very much, Grégoire, and good evening, everyone. Let me just say a few words before leaving the floor back to Grégoire. I'm delighted to open this first conference call for Louis Hachette Group. As you know, Louis Hachette Group has been created last December. From the combination of Vivendi's shareholdings in Lagardère SA and in Prisma Media, Louis Hachette Group is thus a global leader in publishing and travel retail and the French leader in magazine and digital media. Louis Hachette Group is listed on Euronext Growth Paris, which is consistent with the continued listing of Lagardère SA on Euronext Paris. As you can see from Lagardère's results, 2024 was an exceptional year for Louis Hachette Group. The revenue increased by 10% and 8% in organic growth, and the EBITDA grew by 4%. After this strong performance, the Group is confident to pursue its growth trajectory. Louis Hachette Group has all the assets to seize opportunities and to strengthen its leadership. We will continue balancing the allocation between investments, a reasonable level of dividends, and debt reduction. I leave the floor to Grégoire again.

Thank you, Jean-Christophe. Let's go directly to the slide 27. Just a quick reminder, let me first remind you that the structure of this new group is since December 24, combining The activities of Lagardère own at 66.5% and Prisma Media, which is fully owned by Louis Hachette Group. Our reference shareholder, the Bolloré Group, owns 31% of Louis Hachette Group and the float is then around 69%. Let's move on the next slide just a Again, a short reminder, Louis Hachette Group is a worldwide group combining leaders in publishing, travel, retail, and media with around 33,000 employees all over the world. In publishing, Lagardère is ranked number three in the world and by far number one in France. Lagardère Travel Retail, we are the number three operating company 5,000 stores, 300 airports, and more than 700 railway stations around the world. Prisma Media is by far the French leading magazine publisher with a very diversified and attractive portfolio of brands. And we also operate media and entertainment activities mainly through radio, in France, theater, and the news in Paris. On the next slide, you have again Lagardère's key figures that I've just commented. And just a word to explain that at Louis Hachette consolidation level for Lagardère figures, revenues are the same figures, but we have some slight difference regarding Rezop and Evita. Let me try to explain rapidly the main difference for Evita on the next slide. As you can see, Louis Hachette Group's figures correspond to Prisma and Lagardère financial statements as integrated by Vivendi as of the completion of the takeover in December 23. Thus, Lagardère accounts at Louis Hachette Group level include adjustments looked by Vivendi in the opening balance sheets. There are mainly three types of adjustments which impact the EBITDA at Louis Heschel Group versus Lagardère level. Adjustments related to the recalculation of lease liabilities and right of use in accordance with IFRS 16 as of December 23. Adjustments related to the risk and impairments which have been re-estimated in the opening balance sheet by GD&D, again at the end of 23. And charges related to transactions with shareholders owners included in the EBITDA at Lagardère level and neutralized in the Louis Hachette Group's account. Again, all these adjustments are only linked to the takeover by Vivendi in accordance with the IFRS rule. These adjustments haven't any cash impact. You can also refer to the inner appendix of this slide for detailed reconciliation. And of course, our IR team is available to go through this reconciliation later in details if needed. Last but not least, let me give you a few comments for the first time on Prisma Media. At constant perimeter, Prisma Media revenue was quite stable in a very shrinking print press market. This evolution was mainly driven by the development in luxury segments through new launches and acquisition in the year 24, capturing both print and digital advertising and partially compensating the sale of Gala at the end of the year 23. Let's move on Evita. For Prisma, Prisma Media's EBITDA decreased at 13 million, impacted by the sale of Gala in November 23, and a positive non-recurring item in 23, as well as some restructuring costs booked in 24. To summarize all these figures at Louis Hachette Group, on the next slide, you will find the key Louis Hachette Group figures included the evolution of the net debt situation. Again, the figures are really good, as you can see, with 9.2 billion millions of revenue, up 10% compared to 23. EBITDA is 510 million euros, up 4%. The free cash flow increased very significantly by 163 million at 421 million euros. And last but not least, the net debt amount to 1.8 billion at Louis Hachette Group as of December 24, compared to 2.2 billion at the end of 23. A strong decrease linked to the cash generation from activities, and particularly at Lagardère level, and also the recapitalization of Prisma Media just before the split of Vivendi. At the conclusion of this presentation, please note that we will propose to the AGM for Louis Hachette Group an ordinary dividend of 6 cents per share for 24. The payments would occur as from 9 May 25. Before the listing, we disclosed the target of at least 85% of distribution of dividend received by Louis Hachette Group. With this six cents, we are close to 95% of distribution. In 2025, Louis Hachette Group is distributing again a minimum of 85% of dividend received as controlling shareholder of Flygarder SR and sole shareholder of Prisma Media. This dividend policy aims again at maximizing value creation for its shareholders by gradually leveraging the Lagarda Group and implementing dividend distribution to shareholders while preserving its ability to pursue growth opportunities in line with its strategic objectives. Thank you, and we are now available to answer your questions.

Thank you, Grégoire. So I will start first with the question from Eric Ravary from CIC. And there is a first general question valid for the business line, because the question is, what are the trends that you can see coming from early 2025 for travel retail, book publishing, and Prisma? So maybe we start with book publishing, with Jean-Christophe Thierry.

Thank you, Emmanuel. So first I remind you that we had a very, very high 2024. Then our main assumptions for 2025 are as follows. For literature, we will have a richer publication program in France with books of Dan Brown, Virginie Despentes, And the same in the U.K. with Rebecca Yarros, Robert Galbraith, Sylvester Stallone, or Ken Follett. Secondly, we will have for Illustrated, we will have the release. of the new Asterix Opus in Q4. We will continue with an interesting digital contribution, essentially in the U.S. with the audiobook. And we will have a favorable impact of the acquisition of Sterling Union Square in the U.S. And I think we will have a less favorable product mixed with more front-list books and less back-list books, which could a little bit impact the margins.

Thank you, Jean-Christophe. Maybe, Dag, could you please update us for travel retail on how do you see the current trade of travel retail in 2025?

Yes. Good evening to all. So the start of the year, which is January, which is a weak month, we still have a good trend with a bit more than 9% increase in sales that concentrates and almost 12% at current rates. So the momentum continues to be very good. More generally, we will have the full year effect of some openings like Romania last year, but most strongly, the start of Amsterdam, which should be around May 25, the opening of Albania and some African countries. So the dynamic continues to be very strong. No real change in trend as we speak.

Thank you, Dag. For Prisma Media, maybe Claire, would you like to give some highlights?

Yes, sure. Good evening, everyone. So for 2025, we will continue to develop our luxury and lifestyle segment with significant launches like Harper's Bazaar for Maine next September. We will also continue to develop our kids division, which is growing significantly with two major launches in the first semester. And then we will also consolidate our position in digital and video and social networks.

Thank you, Claire. So, following the question from Eric on more structure from the group, one question was, is there any potential improvement for working capital in 2025 as a driver for deleveraging? And the question which is quite related as well, any guidance for the capex in 2025? Maybe Grégoire?

Yes, sure. Firstly, regarding the potential improvement of working cap, again, as I mentioned, the level of working cap was abnormally low for Lagardère publishing and high for Lagardère Travel Retail in 23. We consider that 24 was a return to a much more normative level. Of course, I think that we can do better. We will try to improve again our working cap, but we shouldn't consider this as the main driver for deleveraging the group. The second question was about the guidance for CAPEX. Actually, we don't want to give guidance regarding CAPEX, but even if we manage our cash very cautiously, as I mentioned it, we want to invest to fuel the future growth. So I think that we can say that capex for 25 should be consistent with 24 in terms of percentage of revenues.

Thank you, Grégoire. Now I will address the question from Odo, Jérôme Baudin, and he starts with a question about travel retail, so that's for Doug. Are you considering restructuring some activities in travel retail, in particular for certain geography in 2025? If so, for what type of magnitude?

Okay, a good question. We are definitely considering restructuring our North Asian operations, but the costs have been accounted for in 2024. So we don't expect any additional restructuring cost on that. Apart from that, there's no significant restructuring to be foreseen, except the usual ones, which we carry on a regular basis.

There was two more questions from Odor, I guess, that one was addressed in the press release, which was the level of investment of Arnaud. Would you like to comment, Arnaud, the key figure that is your new shareholding in Louis Hachette Group?

Yeah, absolutely. I moved 5.2%. 11 something like this holding in Lagardère to 0.4 now. And at the same time, it was in the beginning of the listing of Louis Hachet Group. I bought 8.61% of Louis Hachet Group. And the rationale behind this is that the closer I am to the Bolloré family, the happier I am. first of all. Second, I think that the future of Lagardère resides in this, in Louis Hachette Group. Third, the business that is not developed as much in Lagardère and is in Louis Hachette Group is Prisma. And I am really, really confident in the future of Prisma. As you know, I knew Claire Leost in another life when she was part of La Gardère Média and in the magazine. So I know how she is behaving. And I am really, really confident. And I see that the numbers that Grégoire told you before are really, really great. It's not an easy business to be in. But I thought it was great without Gala, by the way, which is even better. So those are pretty much the reasons why I moved to Louis Hachet Group. I kept the 0.4 in Lagardère because they're owned directly by myself as a person. And I will definitely in July, I think it's June or July, the option in June, sell them and probably reinvest in Louis Hachet Group. So I will continue to buy Louis Hachet Group stock, definitely.

shareholders of Lagarde SA. So I think, Pauline, you would like to clarify this point.

Yeah, currently, Louis Hachet Group holds 66.53%. Qatar holds 11.52%. Financière Lagarde, Bernard Arnault's holding holds 7.97%. Vivendi also 4.7%. Arnaud Lagardère 0.4%, as I said. The rest is free float, a little bit of treasury share, just 0.1%.

Thank you, Eric here. I think there is a question from Odo again for the global view because this question is, could you consider a sale of certain activities in other media branch such as radios?

I don't know if it's a disappointment that the answer is no, definitely. Not because we like them, but we do, but because we think that we can turn them around and have them profitable.

Thank you. So I go with, in fact, the question from Julien Roque, the other one. I think... What in a nutshell Julien was asking is how the Lagardère publishing activity compares in terms of profitability to some of its competitors and how do you see the future of evolution and what type of drivers do you intend to have?

Thank you, Emmanuel. Jean-Christophe Thierry speaking. If we compare Lagardère publishing to the best in class, there is a gap in terms of recurrent EBIT margin, but still 11% is quite high and much better than the 9% in 2019. I think this gap is mainly linked to our geographical footprint and also to some segments that are specific to Lagardère publishing. So still, we are working on the profitability of our company, but we do not give any guidance in terms of improvements for the midterms.

Thank you, Jean-Christophe. I think also Julien Rocq has a similar question about travel retail. Dag, I think the point was what is the expectation we could see for 2025 in terms of profitability and for the next couple of years?

Yes, I recognize the question. So I think we've reached now a record high of 5.3 in terms of recurring EBIT. Obviously, we might try to grab somewhat more, but not anything significant because, you know, there's first the openings. Opening years of huge contracts is more costly, so that will not help. grow the percentage of profitability. And at some time, you know, it's a business of vendors. So we think we have come to a level which could be considered as stable, slightly growing, but nothing huge.

Thank you. The next questions come from Christophe Cherblanc from Bernstein. The first point is about most probably the developments of audiobooks and how is it happening in terms of growth and how is it also linked to the development with the Spotify contract in 2024?

Thank you. So digital is a very interesting segment for growth for publishing and particularly audio books. In 2024, digital has represented 14% of our revenues from 12% in 2023. We are very glad with our agreement with Spotify in the US and in the UK in 2023. More recently in France, last autumn. And we will consider in the future any other agreements enabling to grow in digital.

And I think to add a little thing, Jean-Christophe, that you mentioned with Régoire on the board that the The market share of digital, which means e-books plus audio books in the U.S., was roughly around 30%, right? Three zero percent, which is really significant, really.

Thank you, Jean-Christophe. There is an additional question for Lagardère Publishing from Christophe Cherbon. It's about the project on distribution, the distribution book center. How is the project going on now? And do you see or do you expect any significant capex to happen in 2025?

So, regarding distribution in France, we really need to modernize our equipment. But we keep in mind that we are still the market leader and that the quality and the expertise of our teams are recognized by everyone, internal and external people. So our wish for the future is therefore to preserve this asset without wanting to change everything, but by continuing to invest. So we now are studying and designing phase for a new modernization plan. So it's very too early to comment in detail on this subject. But we are moving towards gradual modernization rather than a big bang.

Then there is a question for Grégoire, I guess, from Christophe Cherblanc. In fact, it is about the cost of gross debt for Lagardère. What do you see a way to reduce it between 2024 and 2025?

Thank you. Actually, the interest cost for 2024 was 138 million and even higher if we if you have a look to the cash in fact as i mentioned earlier since we we had some one-off costs linked to the refinancing during this year This high level of interest, if we just have a look at the cost, increased by 40 million compared to last year. And again, this explains why we put so much pressure on the leveraging. For 2025, Lagardère will try to reduce the interest cost, first by refinancing some lines. Maybe perhaps in the first semester, we want to do this quite quickly. And, of course, by also reducing the volume of loads and the fact that the lever that I mentioned earlier, I 2.4 will definitely help us to refinance and decrease this high level of debt cost.

Thank you, Gregoire. Last question from Eric Ravary is about the impact of restructuring on Prisma, EBITDA in 2024. Claire, could you help us?

Yes, sure. So the restructuring plan was due to the loss of Gala, as you know. So the cost was around 4 million, which was mostly cashed out in 2024. So we will have the full positive impact in 2025.

Thank you, Claire. I think there are no more questions. Maybe Arnaud and Jean-Christophe would like to conclude.

Absolutely, Manuel. If you're sure there are no more questions, it's fantastic. We want to thank you for listening to us. We will welcome you next time. And hopefully I think you will be even more impressed by our numbers this year. than you are, I'm sure, for 2024. Thank you so much.